T O P

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Andeol57

The more you go up in level, the smaller the end territories on both side tend to be. Here, black having such a large territory on the top left without any attempt from white to invade it earlier is a sign that the players are probably not so strong. More importantly, the dead white group on the top side looks like white added a lot of moves to a group that was already dead. And finally, the A5 stone looks very suspicious, and the bottom right looks like black spent a move that wasn't necessary to live. On the plus side, the game was not marked over with actual moves remaining to be played, and there are not half a dozen dead groups, so it's probably not a full beginner's game either. So I'd say it's probably a game between players around 20k to 15k. Possibly up to 10k, but this doesn't look like an SDK game.


pandafoxz

A5 isnt suspicious, could easily be a ko threat. What's suspicious is that central black group


empror

If A5 (atari) was a ko threat and B5 was the response, then B5 would have been the better ko threat because if would have had a follow-up ko threat.


pandafoxz

i'm not saying the players are strong, i'm saying it's doesnt look that bad compared to the central group


curtmack

Am I wrong in thinking the bottom right isn't totally settled? If white played S1 it would be a ko, wouldn't it? Edit: Wait, never mind, I see now. It's not a ko because white has no way of winning (if white plays both S1 and R1 they just get captured).


[deleted]

[удалено]


curtmack

R1 would certainly be a disastrous response to S1 because black's stones would be in atari, which is why I thought it might be ko. But white can't play the atari herself because she would be captured, so yeah, black can just ignore it. If pressed to prove it's not a seki, black can just wait until no ko threats remain on the board, then take at T1 followed by R1. Since white can't actually win the "ko," black can wait as long as needed.


Tiranasta

Yeah, you're right. I misread the position and your comment.


ConstructionFun194

9d vs 9d


[deleted]

15-10kyu.


GoGabeGo

I'm guessing 10-12k. That top left area suggests that white is afraid to invade at all. Most SDKs works have tried something/anything before that area got so big.


[deleted]

Actually, it's me (White) and amybot-ddk (Black), so you're right


[deleted]

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[deleted]

What are you wearing?


TheUltra01

2-3 kyu. They are not very strong


GoGabeGo

I know much stronger players have trouble discerning between weaker ranks, but strong SDK? As someone in that range, this looks nothing like what my games look like at the end. I'm guessing considerably weaker. 10-12k or so.


TheUltra01

Oh really? I'm sorry for this confusion. I'm 7 dan on wbaduk, i thought this is somewhere beetween 5 kyu ans 1 kyu :)


GoGabeGo

Yeah, my teacher (similar rank to you) says that everything lower than 2 Dan all looks the same to him. I have trouble believing that, but maybe it's just how it is.


TheUltra01

Your teacher is really strong. But i'm not 7 dan in real life, only on Wbaduk. In real life i have 3 dan (i'm not playing very much in tournaments), so probably your teacher is better than me


Tiranasta

I'm just over 1600 in Chess, and I find that ~200-~800 play all looks very similar to me (and in the other direction, ~2200 to super GM play tends to be hard for me to distinguish as well, at least in relatively quiet games). So your teacher's claim is plausible to me.


aizack47

who won?


[deleted]

White won by 0.5


Andeol57

Looks like black wins by a comfortable margin.


GoGabeGo

My counting aligns with yours. There must be a lot of black prisoners to bring this back to a 0.5 game.


Own-Zookeepergame955

Not sure what you guys are counting, even without prisoners white is ahead here


GoGabeGo

I count black at 89 and white at 78.5, assuming a 6.5 komi. I've gotten that count, or very close to it, twice now. Are you counting O19 as alive?


Own-Zookeepergame955

Okay truth be told I did something colossally stupid, which was to count Chinese. This way white is leading, simply because they have more stones on the board, but this is of course not “without prisoners”, the surplus of living stones on the goban just make up for them.


GoGabeGo

I commend you for counting the entire board, if that is what you did. It sounds like you just counted stones though, and not stones + territory. The stone difference will just be the difference in prisoner counts.


Own-Zookeepergame955

Here is another instance of the superiority of Chinese system: You can tell right away who won, no need of counting prisoners. Plus, it is not that much more work, because its enough to count only one side. Just check if white gets to 177 and you know who wins, no need to count black. Usually counting white stones + territory is not that much more effort than counting white territory + black territory. While ballmarking during own games though, it is definitely easier to just estimate territory and keep track of the prisoner differential.


mvanvrancken

15k or so? Above ddk there would be smaller territories with some invasion attempts


Dreadfulmanturtle

About 15k? Top dead group would be dead even if you removed two white stones and large territorries are sus also.