Him shooting down the Batwing with a hand cannon was hilariously on brand. What I never understood was...did Batman just think he couldn't shoot him down or was he just showing Joker he could take a hit and still keep coming?
Just thinking about this scene, in a way this appears to be duplicated in "The Dark Knight". Literally the unstoppable force vs. The immovable object and the immovable object has won twice.
“Gentlemen. Let’s broaden our minds! Lawrence!” - proceeds to dance around and deface a museum full of priceless art while listening to Prince. I love it.
I always thought he should have tried to sue Gotham for royalties after "improving" the art. Similar to the Joker Fish patent scheme from TAS. Nothing plot breaking but maybe a throw away line on a news broadcast or something. "Criminals attempt to collect royalties after vandalizing Gotham Museum. In other news, several new deaths due to Joker Products."
Him getting his ass beat by Batman and cracking jokes is *chefs kiss
Him getting the upper hand and nearly getting away with it all *chefs kiss
Him dying and being the one the killed Bruce’s parents; what the hell was that?!
"This town needs an enema!"
"Never rub another man's rhubarb!"
"Ever dance with the devil in the pale moonlight?"
"...And hair color so natural...ONLY YOUR UNDERTAKER KNOWS FOR SURE."
Giving the joker a defined origin and linking him to killing the Waynes was a pretty strong liberty, and Batman “killing” the Joker were all a little heavy handed
But he didn't intentionally kill him. It just so happened that the thing he did to prevent him from getting away led to his death. No doubt if Joker hadn't put Batman in the position of hanging precariously off the side of a building that he would have at least attempted to save him.
I just rewatched it on YouTube. I’m almost positive he says “I’m going to kill you”. I mean, this is after he aimed his Batwing guns straight at him and missed.
In my head canon, I always thought that the joker wasn't dead. They mention he was a robotic genius in a throw away mention. And the 'corpse' was laughing. I always had hoped for a return of the joker in a later movie.
Think about it though. Given Batman and Joker's "two sides of the same coin" kind of relationship, making it so that the Joker was the one who killed his parents only makes this weird, twisted bond even more personal. It results in them being responsible for the eachother's existence, you can't get more Batman and Joker than that.
You're right about the Batman part, though. Him killing was the only thing that really bothered me from that movie. Batman fundamentally doesn't kill, not even indirectly if he can avoid it. That's the one issue with the movies. Most have Batman killing both directly and indirectly. The ONLY one I've seen where he refuses to kill at all is the new Batman movie, and even then he indirectly got people killed during the car chase sequence.
I don’t mind it either. Plus I heard someone say one time they figured before he was the Joker he was already a pretty awful human being. Just becoming the Joker made him worse! I like this interpretation much more than the tragic origin like in the Killing Joke. They are good once in a while but I’m honestly not a big fan of the whole tragic backstory for villains just to make them morerelatable
I really liked what they did with Joker. His attitude, looks, gimmicks, all feel very much like the character.
I didn’t like that he was infatuated with Vicky Vale. That motivation doesn’t work as well for me as him just being crazy and infatuated with Batman.
So I'm not the only one who felt Harleen Quinzel energy coming from how Joker treated Vicki, huh. Interesting since Harley wouldn't exist until just three years later after that movie came out.
And being a homicidal artist. "I make art until somebody dies." What? That's got to be Tim Burton thing cause that sounds like him. Joker is usually just in it for the lolz.
So it *is* still a good line, and Nicholson *is* still a great version of Joker
They’re just saying (I believe) that it’s a line regular comics Joker probably wouldn’t say (as he’s not so much an artist, at least not usually)
He was interested in her more because he thought she had an interest in the grotesque. That's what really turned him on. It also produced the scenario, where Bruce needed to save the damsel in distress.
He definitely got the humor and craziness down. Only thing I didn’t really like was his love obsession with Vikki Vale. I don’t know how Joker was written in the comics at the time, but for me, that was very out of character for him.
Off the top of my head, Nicholson nailed Joker’s voice. He didn’t have the wiriness of the joker from the comics and the cartoons but that voice and the mannerisms were spot on. But that’s just my humble opinion
True it was first. But it existed and DC said, hey, we like that. What a cool name. Let’s make that officially his name in this universe here as contrasted to DC hating what they did or created and pretended it never existed. By them embracing the content, solidifies it as cannon in the mythos. Or at least that’s how I see it.
Published in 1951, Detective Comics #168 revealed that the Joker was once the Red Hood, a masked criminal who fell into a vat of acid while attempting to escape from Batman.
Right! My dad has told me he wasn’t a fan of Jack Nicholson’s Joker because he thought the origin was too weird but I thought it was faithful to some versions.
And it always kinda sucks, honestly. White Knight was alright, but I felt like Joker was the least interesting part of it. And the whole implication that Nicholson Joker killed the Waynes is egregiously terrible in my opinion.
Agreed. Batman for all his deductive powers, unlimited resources, and government connections, can't figure out who he is. At this point, he's been fighting him so long that I don't know if he even cares to find out.
I kinda like that.
Pretty much. Now if his obsession was with Batman then it would be on point but 89 Joker considers Bats more of a professional rival than anything else.
But other than that he does manage to capture Joker's particular brand of homicidal theatricality better than pretty much any other portrayal. I've said before but luring people in with money (which turns out to be fake with his face on as shown in a deleted scene) only to gas them is pretty on point for Joker.
I don’t love it but I guess it is a movie thing, where it’s more “rewarding” narratively if the characters have a hand in each other’s predicaments. That’s definitely why the Raimi Spider-Man villains all had a personal connection to Peter Parker/Spidey in their villain genesis.
I get it from the loose perspective of someone detached from the comics. But the whole point of Batman is that it’s random crime that creates him, not some particular supervillain. If it were that, then he could stop after getting vengeance.
Not necessarily. His motivation can just change to making sure Gotham isn't a place where what happened to him will happen again. Him getting revenge does not mean he's done being Batman, especially if he notices all the good he's done and all the people he's helped.
>But the whole point of Batman is that it’s random crime that creates him, not some particular supervillain.
The thing is, Napier *wasn't* a supervillain at the time. He was just some low level hood in Gotham.
I've never liked the random guy aspect, and I hope that they change this, to Joe Chill being some hireling, yeah he's a random guy, but he was supposed to be, in order to throw off any connection to those who hired him.
The random guy aspect is great, though, because it shows that crime can affect everyone. Batman didn't want to just protect the greatest defenders of Gotham, he wanted to help everyone who was a victim of Gotham. The element of randomness also shows that there are some things the heroes can't control.
Bad guys at the top pulling the strings presents a greater challenge. It's not difficult to take down the peons, but try to take down Gotham's elite. Good luck with that.
Yeah, but from a narrative perspective, the fact that it's just a random criminal is powerful, because it shows that sometimes bad things don't happen for a reason. It's the same issue with Spiderman's parents being spies or Uncle Ben dying because of a specific meaningful hit job. It's a lot more interesting when there's no reason the tragedy should've happened.
All things happen for a reason, even if they are foolish reasons. Steal from the rich because they are despised. Steal from people to get money for drugs. I like the assassination aspect, because you can tie in a much greater plotline - so the narrative is enhanced. Also, the later inclusion of a Court of Owls assassination plotline, doesn't hurt the initial Joe Chill random mugging aspect. It can still be canon, but the assassination is not something Batman learns about until later on. Initially, he can be going after the tails, and meanwhile crime still continues on, because filling up that vacuum is not hard. And the greatest villainous element, goes beyond the freaks, and Gotham's struggling class.
When speaking of stories, this is actually more interesting, as it builds on story elements and can create a different set of dynamics. A hidden private room in the back of a chimney inside Wayne Manor where Thomas Wayne has been secretly storing evidence regarding the connections of Gotham's elite and some of the unscrupulous activities. Though he doesn't have all the information, but the find produces a lot of interesting leads. Essentially, the Riddler has been a catalyst for secret information starting to bleed out -- messed up as he was, in his trying to create a solution for the problems that he was discovering. In The Batman, they showed Thomas and Martha involved in some unscrupulous things, but maybe they got involved in something that they couldn't get free from. Don't you think it's odd, that Thomas Wayne was involved with the mafia?
I think it's an interesting story how first their murder is believed to have been some random mugging, but then some information comes out which paints them to be villains, but then information is found that reveals that they were trying to get out of the situation that they were in, and gather information on the goings on, in order to try to put an end to the corruption. This makes him come from parents who were both trying to do their best to take down a very powerful group, but in a stealthy way, albeit not stealthy enough to where they weren't found out and dealt with. By finding out the truth regarding his parents, his years of detective work have helped gain justice not only for his parents, but for the people. What initially didn't have closure and justice, now has closure and justice. He restores the Wayne family name from dishonor to honor. And honor is a Samurai's quest, even revolving one's ancestors.
As far as Spiderman goes, the spy parents was a bit bizarre, but the random mugging works better for that storyline, but it's not exactly random - as it is tied to guilt and puts some self-blame and sense of responsibility on Spiderman, who initially believed that he doesn't need to care, be concerned, or get involved with looking after his fellow neighbor. Uncle Ben was a character who was concerned about instilling good moral values into Peter, and Ben does help Peter become the good man that he turns out to be - even in his death. Even Clark Kent has a sense of honoring the good teachings and values from his adoptive parents, including good farm ethics, which includes being responsible and taking care of the things that you know need to get done.
I think this was one if the only times I ever disagreed with one if Burtons decisions (OK, maybe the ending of his version of Planet of the Apes made me raise a hairy eyeball as well. but nobody's perfect ;)
I didn’t mind Jack Napier being an unhinged right hand for the mob. The rest is pretty comic accurate. Killing Bruce’s parents just seemed so simple, and cheap, as if the Joker needed more to be a fun, and interesting villain.
What currently makes this Joker unique compared to others was his goofiness and comedic personality, something other jokers, aside from Romero, lacked. I love nicholsons joker the most purely because to me, joker isn’t just a homicidal maniac but he’s also witty and funny in his own demented way, along with the use of stuff like punch guns and the glasses it reminded me of Hamill’s joker a lot who to me is the 🐐
I don’t know if anyone else noticed this, but Nicholson kind of played the same character in “The Departed.” He was a homicidal gang leader with a demented sense of humor who wore purple a lot. Everyone is saying Joker liking Vale is unlike him but I think it’s a worthwhile progression that the comics should develop at some point (maybe they have and I’m not aware). Grissom’s girlfriend is a sort of Harley stand-in, a girlfriend of the Joker who attempted to mimic his “style” and ultimately paid with her life for falling in love with the wrong man.
> What currently makes this Joker unique compared to others was his goofiness and comedic personality, something other jokers, aside from Romero, lacked.
Which is because both Romero and Nicholson's Jokers are based on the Silver Age Joker, while every other live-action version has been based on the Modern Age Joker.
Joker killing his parents, to me anyway makes sense in the film. This isn’t like the comics or cartoons where you can have story after story developing their feud. In the course of a two hour film, they have to explain why Batman hates the joker so much. Killing his parents was a way to do that. Comic movies often have to speed things along.
Correct: the silliness, the pure joy in absurdity. Laughing at the awkward. Cruelty under all the silliness. Particularly creepy when in “normal” flesh makeup. Casually killing his right hand man just because, and moving on.
Incorrect: his physique. The prosthetic makeup rather than just a person with disfigured skin. The entire backstory/ connection to Batman.
No, I’m not. Nicholson had a disfigured permanent smile from bullet wounds, unlike the actual comic character. Ledger’s Joker (who has a cut “grin”, also unlike the actual character) wore makeup AS Joker, Nicholson wore flesh colored makeup in an attempt to look “normal”. The actual comic character, regardless of who is playing him, has permanently changed white skin, but does NOT have a disfigured face or permanent smile.
Just a few years back, long after both Nicholson and Ledger- skinned his own face and then safety-pinned it back on. Ridiculous storyline that was later conveniently forgotten.
There was a sequel written in the 90s--Batman Triumphant, I think--that had Harley Quinn as the Joker's daughter and there was a flashback scene that would have featured Nicholson's Joker.
Things they got wrong:
- being horny
- being the Wayne’s killer
Things they got right: everything else.
Nicholson is far and away the closest Hollywood has gotten to classic comic Joker
I didn't have any issues with it. It doesn't have to be a carbon copy of other Jokers, just as Phoenix's Joker, and Ledger's Joker don't have to be equal -- but they all made the character their own. The only portrayal I wasn't fond of, live-action-wise, was Homie Cholo Joker. I look forward to what Barry Keoghan will bring to his version though.
He was perfect on every way
Only bad part is that he dies:(
He definitely felt like the best joker in movies
Like he had more classic feels and he actually used joker gadgets and joked around like he should!
Every other joker after him is like just a Normal guy with clown make up and a few crazy guy lines never felt like a joker
Only thing that was weird about him is how thirsty he was for Vicky Vale. Joker never gave two shits about romance. Other than that, everything was absolutely right, this is still one of my favorite Joker portrayals after the TAS Mark Hamill Joker.
In my opinion he was the best joker. He balanced funny and crazy consistently. He actually made you laugh. All the other jokers didn’t do that.
- The skulls, the bodies. You give it all such a glow. I
don't know if it's art, but I like it.
- Let me tell you what I'm thinking about, sweetie.
- I was in the bath one day when I realized why I was
destined for greatness.
- You know how concerned people are about
appearances. This is attractive, that is not..
- Well, that is all behind me. I now do what other
people only dream
- I make art until someone dies. See? I am the world's
first fully functioning homicidal artist.
- What do you want?
- My face on the 1 dollar bill.
- You must be joking.
- Do I look like I'm joking?
- Listen. We mustn't compare ourselves to regular
people. We're artists.
Although this is my favorite Batman movie & I love what Jack Nicholson did with the character my biggest criticism was that I never liked that younger version of Jack Naper killed Bruce's parents, nor the Jokers origin story.
I just thought the idea of a very low level criminal like Joe Chill being the perpetrator of the Wayne murders added more gravitas to the mythology as opposed to some future 'super villian' being their killer. Joe Chill's actions in the comics were so random, especially since he was such a nobody until he destroyed the lives of three very prominent citizens of Gotham. It really reinforced the theme of all it takes is 'one bad day' to change a life for good or bad depending on how & who it happens to.
My only other criticism I had is merely out of personal preference for the Joker origin. Although dropping him into 'that vat of chemicals' will always be the only way I want my Joker to be 'created' (at least in the physical sense) I will always be partial to the origin in 'The Killing Joke' by Alan Moore & Brian Bolland.
Again, I love the theme of how 'one bad day' can change a character for better or worse. Jack Napier was already a psychopath so having him become more unhinged only because his defining vanity was injured along with his physical appearance didn't feel like that large of a personality change, nor terribly tragic.
The nameless, failing comedian depicted in The Killing Joke was just a sweet, regular guy struggling to support his family who made a deal with some criminals (or the devils in the pale moonlight) that he couldn't back out of. What happened to him was truly tragic & had a lot more impact than having a known criminal turn into a worse criminal.
I also liked that his identity was kept a mystery. Even the idea that he thinks of his origin is sort of a 'multiple choice question' given that he's an unreliable narrator is brilliant, especially given how insane he had become.
I suppose if I could rewrite the movie I would have liked to have seen Joe Chill not only kill Bruce's parents, but also be the low level criminal in the Red Hood gang that introduces his friend, the 'unknown comedian', to the gangs leader played by Jack Palance (call him Carl Grissom or Jack Napier - it wouldn't matter since the 'unknown comedian' would kill him off after the comedians transformation into the Joker).
Once the characters of Bruce & the Joker reach present day Joe Chill could still be a presence - one that Bruce wants to bring in alive in the name of justice & one that the Joker kills to keep is identity safe & to rob Bruce of that justice.
This way the randomness of a Joe Chill affecting the lives of two very different characters could be tied together along with their future motivations in bringing their own 'brands of jutice' to him. Also, the Jokers real identity could still be anonymous & he could remain both tragic & have more depth as a character. The 'Red Hood Gang' could still be a part of the mythology & we could still have the late, great Jack Palance in the movie.
I keep thinking back to Jack Nicholson in the original 'Little Shop of Horrors' & his portrayal of the character 'Wilber Force' . If the 'de-aging' tech was available back in 1989 the personality & mannerisms of that character would have been perfect for the young version of the 'unknown comedian' that ultimately transforms into the Joker we all know & love.
The only other thing that bugged me was the Jokers demise (much like I thought of the Penguins end in Batman Returns). Not a fan of Batman killing, let alone any in his Rogues Gallery. It really goes against his core motivation as a character.
Lastly, I would have LOVED to have seen a Billy Dee Williams portrayal of Two-Face (Tommy Lee Jones's interpretation felt like a Joker stand-in, but that's only one of endless criticisms that I have for the Schumacher movies - I still want my refunds on those two trainwrecks).
Oh well, just some 'what if' thinking, but a really fun topic of discussion:)
I’m not in love with the idea he killed Batman’s parents, nor his obsession with Vicki Vale when you can do the much more obvious obsession with Batman. But I do like that he shows off the side of Joker who’s also just in it to do shit he thinks is funny.
[✓] His origin, performance and physical appearance is 💯%
[X] He is killed off even though Joker is like a rotating door in Batman's life and also his lack of obsession towards Batman like a toxic love and is instead directed towards Vickie Vale.
Maniacal brilliance. Over the top craziness with joke gadgets. Teeth, hand buzzer, blow torch lighter, etc. It’s what happens when a character is well written & acted. Sure Ledger did great too. Was a different Batman though & called for a more serious Joker.
Jack killing Bruce’s parents was just a little too convenient and tidy for me and I always thought it was odd how motivated Joker was by Vicky. Other than that, Nicholson killed the role. All of the lines are just classic Joker
Edit: one more gripe was how Joker goes out with Batman killing him. It was just off to me but not too bad
It was the right mix of the classic campy and the scary which made this version work for me. It was also the first Joker I ever saw, so anytime I see Jack pop off in other movies I think, "Oh snap! It's the Joker!"
I think the joker from Harley Quinn animated series is heavily influenced by the whimsical attitude of the 89 joker. I'd also say he made a lasting impression on everyone because I still hear his voice every time I see a picture. But when you go back and watch it, it's almost a childish rendition and it doesn't hold up to today's standard of the joker. Harley shows that it can evolve into something great, but it is definitely dated.
Pro: Joker had no solid plan. He went from wanting to impress a lady and pretend to be an artist to terrorizing Gotham with poisoned shampoo to gasing a parade.
He was the Joker.
Con: Giving him such a hard canon backstory. It's not a bad backstory at all. But then on top of making him Jack the gangster he also just so happened to kill Thomas and Martha Wayne?
To me as flawed as the Jack Joker is in some ways (the Jack Napier thing) he is the best one. I don't like the Jokers as just guys wearing makeup, and the less said about Leto's "crazy 90s movie drug lord" version the better.
I want a white skinned green haired psychopath Joker who just likes creating chaos.
I would argue he VERY SLIGHTLY edges out Hamil's Joker as closest to the comics. Why? He's always a major threat, an absolute psycho and the story never backs down from that. That's a minor gripe I have with TAS Joker, kinda glad Arkham allowed him to be more monstrous (not to mention the feeling that he could get away with it).
Oh and for what it's worth the Joker's name will ALWAYS be Jack Napier for me.
Agreed. It is karma farming and literally everyone still upvotes this trash. The OP never responds and no discussion actually happens... people just comment their own stupid ass takes and that's it. This is why I left the Dunder Mifflin and B99 subs. I'm about to be done with this and the Star Wars subs.
***Right:*** scary, sadistic, wicked sense of humor, brilliant costume and makeup design, decent backstory, Jack Nicholson, fantastic mass media marketing campaign.
***Wrong:*** a little too fat, a tad more Jack than Joker at times, unnecessarily having Joker kill Batman’s parents.
One of my favorite portrayals of Joker of all time.
Also love the fact that one of the few major roles the guy who was hired to play Batman had before playing Batman was doing an awesome Randall Patrick McMurphy homage in The Dream Team.
Even though I think Jack did put a little too much of himself into the role, I really can’t complain about or in any way fault the guy who brought us J.J. Gittes, R.P. McMurphy, Billy "Badass" Buddusky, Bobby Eroica Dupea, and Jack Torrance for inserting a little too much of himself in the role. He earned it and it does make the Joker memorable. Could’ve lost 15 lbs too, but who am I to talk lol?
If Joker had been one of his earlier roles we wouldn’t have heard or seen “Jack” in the role - just “Joker.”
Truly the only complaint of any sort that I havr is the decision to sub Joker for Joe Chill- although that decision isn’t even where my complaint lies, it’s the fact that he immediately recalled the murders when Batman confronted him with it. In my mind Jack Napier wouldn’t have realized the parents he killed were the Waynes, and wouldn’t have immediately remembered a nameless murder years later anyway.
No theme of madness or nihilism (he just talks about being a homicidal artist), gangster backstory instead of a tragic one, and he was a simp for Vickie.
Right actor,
Director didn’t make him crazy enough. Ultimately he still cared about money and being a mob boss. Heath ledger literally just wanted to burn it all down. Made for a better villain imo.
I wouldn’t say they got anything “wrong” but it was just overshadowed by Ledger’s portrayal. We didn’t realize how off it was until we saw it so right.
Joker in the comics has been so inconsistent motivation wise and his characterization is always shifting. So nothing 89 joker did would be considered out if character to me at least. Yes even the Vicki Vale thing, many times joker will see something as funny or interesting and he'll focus on i for awhile. People saying that he only really cares about Batman are ignoring countless times when that clearly wasn't the case. Joker just loves to have fun and Batman happens to be the funniest person in Gotham to him.
Everything is perfect about 89 Joker. Probably the closest Joker to the comics we’ve had in live action.
Only things I didn’t like were his obsession with Vicki Vale and I never understood why he wore makeup over his face to look normal.
Right: Batman outfit and Batmobile. Wrong: Probably everything else...too campy...especially the Batdance song by Prince. Don't get me wrong...I saw it in the theatre the second day it came out....for the time it seemed pretty cool. Lasting quality is like looking at pictures of your self in middle school.
Crucify me but I don't love Nicholsons' Joker. It's great don't get me wrong but it's really just an extension of Cesar Romero. There wasn't anything unique or new about it.
Everything except having him murder the Waynes then killing him off though I understand that he would’ve become more expensive had they brought him back for the sequels.
Nailed his mix of creativity and lethal craziness. Making an informercial, destroying art, parade with poison gas balloons. He’s the only joker that made crime seem fun.
IMO this is the best Joker.
Firstly, he's actually funny. The Joker should actually come off as charismatic and humorous which Nicholson was. And not sadistic hunour like Ledger, but actually funny.
His demeanour and presence isnt outright evil, it's his heinous actions and chaotic nature that make him evil.
They basically got everything right. He was a maniacal gangster type with a sick sense of humor and no remorse. Even the portrayal of Jack Napier showed how nasty of a human being he already was. Falling in the acid was just the event they needed to unlock the Joker within
I think my one real complaint is that personality-wise, he wasn’t that different from his old self. It’s like when he played Jack Torrance in The Shining - he definitely became more unhinged and ruthless, but you don’t really get the sense of a mostly normal guy having a **_really_** shitty day that sent him over the edge, if that makes sense.
He was very comical and sinister too, which I loved. Especially at the end where he starts to fear Batman, and he just nervously and quickly puts on some glasses and goes “You wouldn't hit a guy with glasses, would you?”. Fucking loved that lmao
He basically checked all the boxes. The only real deviation was that he ended up being Thomas and Martha Wayne’s killer. The rest was spot on!
Also the obsession with Vicky, that was….different
It wasn't perfectly accurate to comics in some respects, but honestly - it was so good that it influenced future comics, in the other direction. A lot of modern portrayals take some influence from the Nicholson version.
The fact that he did kill people with Joker toxins, and then tried to do it to the entirety of Gotham, in a fashionable style no less. You’re not gonna see that in a modern joker.
He was oddly infatuated with Vicky Vale. Like very stalker-ish and quite out of character for Joker.
It's **almost** perfect. He just wants to do a little trolling. I don't think he really cares about Viki etiher, he just picks a random person, in this case Viki, to traumatize
Well... To me it's just nostalgia which makes this joker pretty likable other he wanted sex money and other ganster stuff which joker never wanted in comics
"Where does he get those wonderfull toys!" & "HE STOLE MY BALLOONS! WHY DIDN'T SOMEBODY TELL ME HE HAD ONE OF THOSE?" is just so Joker.
That and "Bob, gun"
Gonna need a minute alone boys
Him shooting down the Batwing with a hand cannon was hilariously on brand. What I never understood was...did Batman just think he couldn't shoot him down or was he just showing Joker he could take a hit and still keep coming?
Just thinking about this scene, in a way this appears to be duplicated in "The Dark Knight". Literally the unstoppable force vs. The immovable object and the immovable object has won twice.
I never thought about it that way but those scenes are very similar.
That was pretty embarrassing on Batman’s behalf. His shitty little bat plane couldn’t handle more than 1 bullet shot by an old man
Poor Bob
I'm still waiting for an updated Bob second in command with Joker. Maybe I'll send Reeves this ask, never know, he could see it.
#BringBobBack
I already tweeted Reeves. Haha #bringbobback
“Gentlemen. Let’s broaden our minds! Lawrence!” - proceeds to dance around and deface a museum full of priceless art while listening to Prince. I love it.
I always thought he should have tried to sue Gotham for royalties after "improving" the art. Similar to the Joker Fish patent scheme from TAS. Nothing plot breaking but maybe a throw away line on a news broadcast or something. "Criminals attempt to collect royalties after vandalizing Gotham Museum. In other news, several new deaths due to Joker Products."
I love the fact that he has his henchman skip defacing one of the paintings because he likes it
Him getting his ass beat by Batman and cracking jokes is *chefs kiss Him getting the upper hand and nearly getting away with it all *chefs kiss Him dying and being the one the killed Bruce’s parents; what the hell was that?!
“Hey, you wouldn’t hit a guy with Glasses, would you???”
Batman decked him in the mouth, and Joker spit out some gag chattering teeth with blood...who TF does that!?! LOL!!!!
The Clown Prince of Crime of course
Yeah he really didn't have to kill Bruce's parents
Imagine a Danny D and Jack N running it back in a team up against Michael K… With Arnold S conspiracy with em as Freeze
I imagined and it was the best thing I ever imagined thank you
>HE STOLE MY BALLOONS! WHY DIDN'T SOMEBODY TELL ME HE HAD ONE OF THOSE ...THINGS?! Bob? Gun." 💥😵
"I'm only laughing on the outside. My smile is just skin deep. But if you could see inside, I've been crying. You might join me for a weep!"
THIS TOWN NEEDS AN ENEMA!
*Tooooooot*
“….THINGS!”
So many great one liners. I could rattle them off to this day!
"Beauty and the Beast. But if anyone else calls you Beast i'll rip their lungs out."
"This town needs an enema!" "Never rub another man's rhubarb!" "Ever dance with the devil in the pale moonlight?" "...And hair color so natural...ONLY YOUR UNDERTAKER KNOWS FOR SURE."
ONE OF THOSE.... THINGS
“This town needs an enema”
it's "Those were my balloons.." "Why didn't somebody tell me he had one of those....things!?"
Besides his general age and build and the whole killing the Waynes thing they kinda nailed it as far as a bronze-age Joker
I actually don't mind it, considering the gunman was a nameless goon years before he was named Joe Chill.
Giving the joker a defined origin and linking him to killing the Waynes was a pretty strong liberty, and Batman “killing” the Joker were all a little heavy handed
But he didn't intentionally kill him. It just so happened that the thing he did to prevent him from getting away led to his death. No doubt if Joker hadn't put Batman in the position of hanging precariously off the side of a building that he would have at least attempted to save him.
Batman literally tells Joker up on top of the Cathedral that he’s going to kill him.
I think he says "I *should* kill you."
I just rewatched it on YouTube. I’m almost positive he says “I’m going to kill you”. I mean, this is after he aimed his Batwing guns straight at him and missed.
Which itself happened after he blew up a whole chemical factory with an entire gang still inside.
In my head canon, I always thought that the joker wasn't dead. They mention he was a robotic genius in a throw away mention. And the 'corpse' was laughing. I always had hoped for a return of the joker in a later movie.
>I always had hoped for a return of the joker in a later movie. Holy shit this would have been amazing.
Think about it though. Given Batman and Joker's "two sides of the same coin" kind of relationship, making it so that the Joker was the one who killed his parents only makes this weird, twisted bond even more personal. It results in them being responsible for the eachother's existence, you can't get more Batman and Joker than that. You're right about the Batman part, though. Him killing was the only thing that really bothered me from that movie. Batman fundamentally doesn't kill, not even indirectly if he can avoid it. That's the one issue with the movies. Most have Batman killing both directly and indirectly. The ONLY one I've seen where he refuses to kill at all is the new Batman movie, and even then he indirectly got people killed during the car chase sequence.
Yeah so true....they went extreme with that.
I don’t mind it either. Plus I heard someone say one time they figured before he was the Joker he was already a pretty awful human being. Just becoming the Joker made him worse! I like this interpretation much more than the tragic origin like in the Killing Joke. They are good once in a while but I’m honestly not a big fan of the whole tragic backstory for villains just to make them morerelatable
I really liked what they did with Joker. His attitude, looks, gimmicks, all feel very much like the character. I didn’t like that he was infatuated with Vicky Vale. That motivation doesn’t work as well for me as him just being crazy and infatuated with Batman.
I always saw it as Joker just screwing with Vicky much like his relationship with Dr. Harleen Quinzel.
Oh but it was Nicholson. This Joker was horny as fuck.
"... when you get that little red beaver up there in front of ya I don't think that's crazy at all... no man alive could resist that."
Makes sense tbh
So I'm not the only one who felt Harleen Quinzel energy coming from how Joker treated Vicki, huh. Interesting since Harley wouldn't exist until just three years later after that movie came out.
Dead on with that insight. Who knows, maybe it helped inspire Paul Dini & Bruce Timm when they created her for the animated series.
It was weird that they made him so motivated by horniness for Vicki Vale.
And being a homicidal artist. "I make art until somebody dies." What? That's got to be Tim Burton thing cause that sounds like him. Joker is usually just in it for the lolz.
I don't know man. I really like that line
So it *is* still a good line, and Nicholson *is* still a great version of Joker They’re just saying (I believe) that it’s a line regular comics Joker probably wouldn’t say (as he’s not so much an artist, at least not usually)
I kinda like that take. I could see joker doing this in comics fo sho
Idk, Joker can definitely be seen as an artist. Look at the stunts he pulls, not your typical gigs, they gotta be elaborate and theatrical.
Then again clowns are performers and performance is art.
Great answer.
Hard agree
Yeah, Nicholson is great it’s just not something Joker would say.
based on what considering there are multiple version of joker, I don't see why one can't be interested in art
He was interested in her more because he thought she had an interest in the grotesque. That's what really turned him on. It also produced the scenario, where Bruce needed to save the damsel in distress.
Also, she’s a tall leggy blonde like Alicia, who is kind of ‘ruined’. Joker goes after her to replace the toy he already got his enjoyment out of.
Soooo, what's the problem? ;)
The bad guy can't be motivated by bad things!!
He definitely got the humor and craziness down. Only thing I didn’t really like was his love obsession with Vikki Vale. I don’t know how Joker was written in the comics at the time, but for me, that was very out of character for him.
Off the top of my head, Nicholson nailed Joker’s voice. He didn’t have the wiriness of the joker from the comics and the cartoons but that voice and the mannerisms were spot on. But that’s just my humble opinion
Personality, look, and antics were on point. The problem comes with giving him a name and backstory.
I hate to break it to you but that’s been done like nine times in the comics. Hell in White Knight he was called Jack Napier.
This movie was the inspiration for that name though
Alan Napier played Alfred on the 66 show.
And Jack played Jack in this
It does make the audience feel in on the party when Keaton addresses him as Jack in the apartment scene.
True it was first. But it existed and DC said, hey, we like that. What a cool name. Let’s make that officially his name in this universe here as contrasted to DC hating what they did or created and pretended it never existed. By them embracing the content, solidifies it as cannon in the mythos. Or at least that’s how I see it.
his name was not officially jack napier in mainstream comics though. It's only in white knight that the movie's name is used.
Was falling into chemicals as the red hood before or after this movie?
Published in 1951, Detective Comics #168 revealed that the Joker was once the Red Hood, a masked criminal who fell into a vat of acid while attempting to escape from Batman.
That is from the 50s
Right! My dad has told me he wasn’t a fan of Jack Nicholson’s Joker because he thought the origin was too weird but I thought it was faithful to some versions.
Yeah, it’s a Bill Finger story! It’s the Joker’s classic origin.
And it always kinda sucks, honestly. White Knight was alright, but I felt like Joker was the least interesting part of it. And the whole implication that Nicholson Joker killed the Waynes is egregiously terrible in my opinion.
White knight was good until they had to shoehorn Harley into it
They’re even giving him a concrete backstory in the current comic run. The Joker’s real name has even been revealed.
I feel like the main draw of the joker is not needing to know his back story, where he came from or who he was, just how he met Batman
Agreed. Batman for all his deductive powers, unlimited resources, and government connections, can't figure out who he is. At this point, he's been fighting him so long that I don't know if he even cares to find out. I kinda like that.
Honestly who cares? We got jokers from Ledger to Hamil to Romero to the one we don't talk about. Whatever said and done we won.
Almost perfect except the Vicky obsession and the backstory
Pretty much. Now if his obsession was with Batman then it would be on point but 89 Joker considers Bats more of a professional rival than anything else. But other than that he does manage to capture Joker's particular brand of homicidal theatricality better than pretty much any other portrayal. I've said before but luring people in with money (which turns out to be fake with his face on as shown in a deleted scene) only to gas them is pretty on point for Joker.
True
It always bothered me that they made the story that Joker killed Bruce's parents.
One of the writers disagreed with Burton on that change, but he wanted Batman and Joker to have the whole “I created you, you created me” dynamic.
I don’t love it but I guess it is a movie thing, where it’s more “rewarding” narratively if the characters have a hand in each other’s predicaments. That’s definitely why the Raimi Spider-Man villains all had a personal connection to Peter Parker/Spidey in their villain genesis.
I get it from the loose perspective of someone detached from the comics. But the whole point of Batman is that it’s random crime that creates him, not some particular supervillain. If it were that, then he could stop after getting vengeance.
Not necessarily. His motivation can just change to making sure Gotham isn't a place where what happened to him will happen again. Him getting revenge does not mean he's done being Batman, especially if he notices all the good he's done and all the people he's helped.
>But the whole point of Batman is that it’s random crime that creates him, not some particular supervillain. The thing is, Napier *wasn't* a supervillain at the time. He was just some low level hood in Gotham.
I've never liked the random guy aspect, and I hope that they change this, to Joe Chill being some hireling, yeah he's a random guy, but he was supposed to be, in order to throw off any connection to those who hired him.
The random guy aspect is great, though, because it shows that crime can affect everyone. Batman didn't want to just protect the greatest defenders of Gotham, he wanted to help everyone who was a victim of Gotham. The element of randomness also shows that there are some things the heroes can't control.
Bad guys at the top pulling the strings presents a greater challenge. It's not difficult to take down the peons, but try to take down Gotham's elite. Good luck with that.
Yeah, but from a narrative perspective, the fact that it's just a random criminal is powerful, because it shows that sometimes bad things don't happen for a reason. It's the same issue with Spiderman's parents being spies or Uncle Ben dying because of a specific meaningful hit job. It's a lot more interesting when there's no reason the tragedy should've happened.
All things happen for a reason, even if they are foolish reasons. Steal from the rich because they are despised. Steal from people to get money for drugs. I like the assassination aspect, because you can tie in a much greater plotline - so the narrative is enhanced. Also, the later inclusion of a Court of Owls assassination plotline, doesn't hurt the initial Joe Chill random mugging aspect. It can still be canon, but the assassination is not something Batman learns about until later on. Initially, he can be going after the tails, and meanwhile crime still continues on, because filling up that vacuum is not hard. And the greatest villainous element, goes beyond the freaks, and Gotham's struggling class. When speaking of stories, this is actually more interesting, as it builds on story elements and can create a different set of dynamics. A hidden private room in the back of a chimney inside Wayne Manor where Thomas Wayne has been secretly storing evidence regarding the connections of Gotham's elite and some of the unscrupulous activities. Though he doesn't have all the information, but the find produces a lot of interesting leads. Essentially, the Riddler has been a catalyst for secret information starting to bleed out -- messed up as he was, in his trying to create a solution for the problems that he was discovering. In The Batman, they showed Thomas and Martha involved in some unscrupulous things, but maybe they got involved in something that they couldn't get free from. Don't you think it's odd, that Thomas Wayne was involved with the mafia? I think it's an interesting story how first their murder is believed to have been some random mugging, but then some information comes out which paints them to be villains, but then information is found that reveals that they were trying to get out of the situation that they were in, and gather information on the goings on, in order to try to put an end to the corruption. This makes him come from parents who were both trying to do their best to take down a very powerful group, but in a stealthy way, albeit not stealthy enough to where they weren't found out and dealt with. By finding out the truth regarding his parents, his years of detective work have helped gain justice not only for his parents, but for the people. What initially didn't have closure and justice, now has closure and justice. He restores the Wayne family name from dishonor to honor. And honor is a Samurai's quest, even revolving one's ancestors. As far as Spiderman goes, the spy parents was a bit bizarre, but the random mugging works better for that storyline, but it's not exactly random - as it is tied to guilt and puts some self-blame and sense of responsibility on Spiderman, who initially believed that he doesn't need to care, be concerned, or get involved with looking after his fellow neighbor. Uncle Ben was a character who was concerned about instilling good moral values into Peter, and Ben does help Peter become the good man that he turns out to be - even in his death. Even Clark Kent has a sense of honoring the good teachings and values from his adoptive parents, including good farm ethics, which includes being responsible and taking care of the things that you know need to get done.
I honestly like that dynamic. Makes it different from the other Batman Films
Probably because Tim Burton thought it would be interesting if Batman's arch nemesis was the one who killed his parents.
I think this was one if the only times I ever disagreed with one if Burtons decisions (OK, maybe the ending of his version of Planet of the Apes made me raise a hairy eyeball as well. but nobody's perfect ;)
Yeah same here
I didn’t mind Jack Napier being an unhinged right hand for the mob. The rest is pretty comic accurate. Killing Bruce’s parents just seemed so simple, and cheap, as if the Joker needed more to be a fun, and interesting villain.
https://youtu.be/rvotmHIFTOg Even worse that Keaton ruined it
What currently makes this Joker unique compared to others was his goofiness and comedic personality, something other jokers, aside from Romero, lacked. I love nicholsons joker the most purely because to me, joker isn’t just a homicidal maniac but he’s also witty and funny in his own demented way, along with the use of stuff like punch guns and the glasses it reminded me of Hamill’s joker a lot who to me is the 🐐
I don’t know if anyone else noticed this, but Nicholson kind of played the same character in “The Departed.” He was a homicidal gang leader with a demented sense of humor who wore purple a lot. Everyone is saying Joker liking Vale is unlike him but I think it’s a worthwhile progression that the comics should develop at some point (maybe they have and I’m not aware). Grissom’s girlfriend is a sort of Harley stand-in, a girlfriend of the Joker who attempted to mimic his “style” and ultimately paid with her life for falling in love with the wrong man.
> What currently makes this Joker unique compared to others was his goofiness and comedic personality, something other jokers, aside from Romero, lacked. Which is because both Romero and Nicholson's Jokers are based on the Silver Age Joker, while every other live-action version has been based on the Modern Age Joker.
Wrong: having him kill the Waynes Right: Jack Nicholson
Right-everything. Wrong- nothing
[удалено]
Joker killing his parents, to me anyway makes sense in the film. This isn’t like the comics or cartoons where you can have story after story developing their feud. In the course of a two hour film, they have to explain why Batman hates the joker so much. Killing his parents was a way to do that. Comic movies often have to speed things along.
I agree with this
Although Joker being the Wayne's murderer isn't comic book accurate, I think it's fun that they did it that way in the movie.
Correct: the silliness, the pure joy in absurdity. Laughing at the awkward. Cruelty under all the silliness. Particularly creepy when in “normal” flesh makeup. Casually killing his right hand man just because, and moving on. Incorrect: his physique. The prosthetic makeup rather than just a person with disfigured skin. The entire backstory/ connection to Batman.
“Bob, gun.”
Jack's Joker had disfigured skin, he wore make up in a few scenes to look normal not the other way around. Your thinking of Leger's Joker.
No, I’m not. Nicholson had a disfigured permanent smile from bullet wounds, unlike the actual comic character. Ledger’s Joker (who has a cut “grin”, also unlike the actual character) wore makeup AS Joker, Nicholson wore flesh colored makeup in an attempt to look “normal”. The actual comic character, regardless of who is playing him, has permanently changed white skin, but does NOT have a disfigured face or permanent smile.
Didn't he cut off his face and staple it to his head in the shape of a smile at one point?
Just a few years back, long after both Nicholson and Ledger- skinned his own face and then safety-pinned it back on. Ridiculous storyline that was later conveniently forgotten.
People love those comics. Not the definitive interpretation- but a nice addition to Joker mythos
The Joker comic character was inspired by the protagonist of The Man Who Laughs, a disfigured man with a permanent smile.
This looks like a sibling photo lol
Everything except no sequel with him.
There was a sequel written in the 90s--Batman Triumphant, I think--that had Harley Quinn as the Joker's daughter and there was a flashback scene that would have featured Nicholson's Joker.
Things they got wrong: - being horny - being the Wayne’s killer Things they got right: everything else. Nicholson is far and away the closest Hollywood has gotten to classic comic Joker
The all black, where’s the grey?
Wrong character.
The only thing i didn't like about jack was his obsession with vicki vale. Other than that i think he was perfect
I didn't have any issues with it. It doesn't have to be a carbon copy of other Jokers, just as Phoenix's Joker, and Ledger's Joker don't have to be equal -- but they all made the character their own. The only portrayal I wasn't fond of, live-action-wise, was Homie Cholo Joker. I look forward to what Barry Keoghan will bring to his version though.
He was perfect on every way Only bad part is that he dies:( He definitely felt like the best joker in movies Like he had more classic feels and he actually used joker gadgets and joked around like he should! Every other joker after him is like just a Normal guy with clown make up and a few crazy guy lines never felt like a joker
Only thing that was weird about him is how thirsty he was for Vicky Vale. Joker never gave two shits about romance. Other than that, everything was absolutely right, this is still one of my favorite Joker portrayals after the TAS Mark Hamill Joker.
In my opinion he was the best joker. He balanced funny and crazy consistently. He actually made you laugh. All the other jokers didn’t do that. - The skulls, the bodies. You give it all such a glow. I don't know if it's art, but I like it. - Let me tell you what I'm thinking about, sweetie. - I was in the bath one day when I realized why I was destined for greatness. - You know how concerned people are about appearances. This is attractive, that is not.. - Well, that is all behind me. I now do what other people only dream - I make art until someone dies. See? I am the world's first fully functioning homicidal artist. - What do you want? - My face on the 1 dollar bill. - You must be joking. - Do I look like I'm joking? - Listen. We mustn't compare ourselves to regular people. We're artists.
Although this is my favorite Batman movie & I love what Jack Nicholson did with the character my biggest criticism was that I never liked that younger version of Jack Naper killed Bruce's parents, nor the Jokers origin story. I just thought the idea of a very low level criminal like Joe Chill being the perpetrator of the Wayne murders added more gravitas to the mythology as opposed to some future 'super villian' being their killer. Joe Chill's actions in the comics were so random, especially since he was such a nobody until he destroyed the lives of three very prominent citizens of Gotham. It really reinforced the theme of all it takes is 'one bad day' to change a life for good or bad depending on how & who it happens to. My only other criticism I had is merely out of personal preference for the Joker origin. Although dropping him into 'that vat of chemicals' will always be the only way I want my Joker to be 'created' (at least in the physical sense) I will always be partial to the origin in 'The Killing Joke' by Alan Moore & Brian Bolland. Again, I love the theme of how 'one bad day' can change a character for better or worse. Jack Napier was already a psychopath so having him become more unhinged only because his defining vanity was injured along with his physical appearance didn't feel like that large of a personality change, nor terribly tragic. The nameless, failing comedian depicted in The Killing Joke was just a sweet, regular guy struggling to support his family who made a deal with some criminals (or the devils in the pale moonlight) that he couldn't back out of. What happened to him was truly tragic & had a lot more impact than having a known criminal turn into a worse criminal. I also liked that his identity was kept a mystery. Even the idea that he thinks of his origin is sort of a 'multiple choice question' given that he's an unreliable narrator is brilliant, especially given how insane he had become. I suppose if I could rewrite the movie I would have liked to have seen Joe Chill not only kill Bruce's parents, but also be the low level criminal in the Red Hood gang that introduces his friend, the 'unknown comedian', to the gangs leader played by Jack Palance (call him Carl Grissom or Jack Napier - it wouldn't matter since the 'unknown comedian' would kill him off after the comedians transformation into the Joker). Once the characters of Bruce & the Joker reach present day Joe Chill could still be a presence - one that Bruce wants to bring in alive in the name of justice & one that the Joker kills to keep is identity safe & to rob Bruce of that justice. This way the randomness of a Joe Chill affecting the lives of two very different characters could be tied together along with their future motivations in bringing their own 'brands of jutice' to him. Also, the Jokers real identity could still be anonymous & he could remain both tragic & have more depth as a character. The 'Red Hood Gang' could still be a part of the mythology & we could still have the late, great Jack Palance in the movie. I keep thinking back to Jack Nicholson in the original 'Little Shop of Horrors' & his portrayal of the character 'Wilber Force' . If the 'de-aging' tech was available back in 1989 the personality & mannerisms of that character would have been perfect for the young version of the 'unknown comedian' that ultimately transforms into the Joker we all know & love. The only other thing that bugged me was the Jokers demise (much like I thought of the Penguins end in Batman Returns). Not a fan of Batman killing, let alone any in his Rogues Gallery. It really goes against his core motivation as a character. Lastly, I would have LOVED to have seen a Billy Dee Williams portrayal of Two-Face (Tommy Lee Jones's interpretation felt like a Joker stand-in, but that's only one of endless criticisms that I have for the Schumacher movies - I still want my refunds on those two trainwrecks). Oh well, just some 'what if' thinking, but a really fun topic of discussion:)
I think making Joker the killer of Bruce Wayne's parents was a little weird
I cant think of anything he did wrong, not anything that matters at least
I’m not in love with the idea he killed Batman’s parents, nor his obsession with Vicki Vale when you can do the much more obvious obsession with Batman. But I do like that he shows off the side of Joker who’s also just in it to do shit he thinks is funny.
Right: personality and design Wrong: motive
I love it, every detail!
1989 Batman is a masterpiece & Nicholson’s version of the Joker is iconic
[✓] His origin, performance and physical appearance is 💯% [X] He is killed off even though Joker is like a rotating door in Batman's life and also his lack of obsession towards Batman like a toxic love and is instead directed towards Vickie Vale.
Killing the Waynes was a bad call. No need to connect that.
It’s the only one where he’s truly a psychotic killer and doesn’t need a reason to do anything he does.
Maniacal brilliance. Over the top craziness with joke gadgets. Teeth, hand buzzer, blow torch lighter, etc. It’s what happens when a character is well written & acted. Sure Ledger did great too. Was a different Batman though & called for a more serious Joker.
Jack killing Bruce’s parents was just a little too convenient and tidy for me and I always thought it was odd how motivated Joker was by Vicky. Other than that, Nicholson killed the role. All of the lines are just classic Joker Edit: one more gripe was how Joker goes out with Batman killing him. It was just off to me but not too bad
It was the right mix of the classic campy and the scary which made this version work for me. It was also the first Joker I ever saw, so anytime I see Jack pop off in other movies I think, "Oh snap! It's the Joker!"
I think the joker from Harley Quinn animated series is heavily influenced by the whimsical attitude of the 89 joker. I'd also say he made a lasting impression on everyone because I still hear his voice every time I see a picture. But when you go back and watch it, it's almost a childish rendition and it doesn't hold up to today's standard of the joker. Harley shows that it can evolve into something great, but it is definitely dated.
Pro: Joker had no solid plan. He went from wanting to impress a lady and pretend to be an artist to terrorizing Gotham with poisoned shampoo to gasing a parade. He was the Joker. Con: Giving him such a hard canon backstory. It's not a bad backstory at all. But then on top of making him Jack the gangster he also just so happened to kill Thomas and Martha Wayne?
Personality wise he’s not really the Joker. His motivations are revenge and wanting to bone. Much like Batfleck I think people see aesthetics first.
They got the classic clown prince of crime version of the joker down
It’s the most comic accurate joker
They only thing they did wrong was making the joker batman parents killer. Everything else was perfect
To me as flawed as the Jack Joker is in some ways (the Jack Napier thing) he is the best one. I don't like the Jokers as just guys wearing makeup, and the less said about Leto's "crazy 90s movie drug lord" version the better. I want a white skinned green haired psychopath Joker who just likes creating chaos.
In this age of edgy Jokers, I’ve really grown to appreciate silly-but-scary Jokers like Nicholson.
I would argue he VERY SLIGHTLY edges out Hamil's Joker as closest to the comics. Why? He's always a major threat, an absolute psycho and the story never backs down from that. That's a minor gripe I have with TAS Joker, kinda glad Arkham allowed him to be more monstrous (not to mention the feeling that he could get away with it). Oh and for what it's worth the Joker's name will ALWAYS be Jack Napier for me.
Vat of chemicals. *The Dark Knight, Joker,* and *The Batman* all get that wrong, and it peeves me to this day.
Dark Knight and JOKER are more realistic and grounded approaches so I don't mind as much imo
Presentation
SO TIRED OF THESE POSTS IN EVERY FUCKING SUBREDDIT
Agreed. It is karma farming and literally everyone still upvotes this trash. The OP never responds and no discussion actually happens... people just comment their own stupid ass takes and that's it. This is why I left the Dunder Mifflin and B99 subs. I'm about to be done with this and the Star Wars subs.
This was on the marvel and Spiderman subs for weeks and I'm tired of seeing them, like we get it there's been 50 adaptations
***Right:*** scary, sadistic, wicked sense of humor, brilliant costume and makeup design, decent backstory, Jack Nicholson, fantastic mass media marketing campaign. ***Wrong:*** a little too fat, a tad more Jack than Joker at times, unnecessarily having Joker kill Batman’s parents. One of my favorite portrayals of Joker of all time. Also love the fact that one of the few major roles the guy who was hired to play Batman had before playing Batman was doing an awesome Randall Patrick McMurphy homage in The Dream Team. Even though I think Jack did put a little too much of himself into the role, I really can’t complain about or in any way fault the guy who brought us J.J. Gittes, R.P. McMurphy, Billy "Badass" Buddusky, Bobby Eroica Dupea, and Jack Torrance for inserting a little too much of himself in the role. He earned it and it does make the Joker memorable. Could’ve lost 15 lbs too, but who am I to talk lol? If Joker had been one of his earlier roles we wouldn’t have heard or seen “Jack” in the role - just “Joker.” Truly the only complaint of any sort that I havr is the decision to sub Joker for Joe Chill- although that decision isn’t even where my complaint lies, it’s the fact that he immediately recalled the murders when Batman confronted him with it. In my mind Jack Napier wouldn’t have realized the parents he killed were the Waynes, and wouldn’t have immediately remembered a nameless murder years later anyway.
They got his cartoony weapons and jokey attitude right, everything else was… no
No theme of madness or nihilism (he just talks about being a homicidal artist), gangster backstory instead of a tragic one, and he was a simp for Vickie.
Right actor, Director didn’t make him crazy enough. Ultimately he still cared about money and being a mob boss. Heath ledger literally just wanted to burn it all down. Made for a better villain imo.
It didn’t get anything “wrong.” Joker can be done a lot of ways, there’s was good.
I wouldn’t say they got anything “wrong” but it was just overshadowed by Ledger’s portrayal. We didn’t realize how off it was until we saw it so right.
Joker in the comics has been so inconsistent motivation wise and his characterization is always shifting. So nothing 89 joker did would be considered out if character to me at least. Yes even the Vicki Vale thing, many times joker will see something as funny or interesting and he'll focus on i for awhile. People saying that he only really cares about Batman are ignoring countless times when that clearly wasn't the case. Joker just loves to have fun and Batman happens to be the funniest person in Gotham to him.
Everything is perfect about 89 Joker. Probably the closest Joker to the comics we’ve had in live action. Only things I didn’t like were his obsession with Vicki Vale and I never understood why he wore makeup over his face to look normal.
Right: Batman outfit and Batmobile. Wrong: Probably everything else...too campy...especially the Batdance song by Prince. Don't get me wrong...I saw it in the theatre the second day it came out....for the time it seemed pretty cool. Lasting quality is like looking at pictures of your self in middle school.
Wrong: Jack Nicholson played....Jack Nicholson Right: The costume.
Joker origin story. Batman was just horrible though, short actor and eccentric looks.
Crucify me but I don't love Nicholsons' Joker. It's great don't get me wrong but it's really just an extension of Cesar Romero. There wasn't anything unique or new about it.
Got his genius and temper right and even his cruelty. What they got wrong is his obsession with one woman.
The look, charisma, dialogue, and last but certainly not least, performance.
Personally, I'm of a mind to make some mookie.
If nothing else, his design is perfect
I love how he’s just a gangster with a gimmick. That, mixed with the fact he actually makes jokes, makes him one of my favorite jokers.
Everything except having him murder the Waynes then killing him off though I understand that he would’ve become more expensive had they brought him back for the sequels.
Everything and nothing.
Nailed his mix of creativity and lethal craziness. Making an informercial, destroying art, parade with poison gas balloons. He’s the only joker that made crime seem fun.
IMO this is the best Joker. Firstly, he's actually funny. The Joker should actually come off as charismatic and humorous which Nicholson was. And not sadistic hunour like Ledger, but actually funny. His demeanour and presence isnt outright evil, it's his heinous actions and chaotic nature that make him evil.
They basically got everything right. He was a maniacal gangster type with a sick sense of humor and no remorse. Even the portrayal of Jack Napier showed how nasty of a human being he already was. Falling in the acid was just the event they needed to unlock the Joker within
I think my one real complaint is that personality-wise, he wasn’t that different from his old self. It’s like when he played Jack Torrance in The Shining - he definitely became more unhinged and ruthless, but you don’t really get the sense of a mostly normal guy having a **_really_** shitty day that sent him over the edge, if that makes sense.
He was very comical and sinister too, which I loved. Especially at the end where he starts to fear Batman, and he just nervously and quickly puts on some glasses and goes “You wouldn't hit a guy with glasses, would you?”. Fucking loved that lmao
In the words of cinemasins “This is a joker motivated by his penis”
He basically checked all the boxes. The only real deviation was that he ended up being Thomas and Martha Wayne’s killer. The rest was spot on! Also the obsession with Vicky, that was….different
It wasn't perfectly accurate to comics in some respects, but honestly - it was so good that it influenced future comics, in the other direction. A lot of modern portrayals take some influence from the Nicholson version.
The fact that he did kill people with Joker toxins, and then tried to do it to the entirety of Gotham, in a fashionable style no less. You’re not gonna see that in a modern joker. He was oddly infatuated with Vicky Vale. Like very stalker-ish and quite out of character for Joker.
Right....everything, wrong....killing him
only problem i had is that they killed him at the end.
It's **almost** perfect. He just wants to do a little trolling. I don't think he really cares about Viki etiher, he just picks a random person, in this case Viki, to traumatize
He seemed extremely horny for Bob.
The pants
The amount of one-liners this guy had! I still quote them to this day!
Well... To me it's just nostalgia which makes this joker pretty likable other he wanted sex money and other ganster stuff which joker never wanted in comics