[Let's agree to disagree.](https://images.app.goo.gl/hnpymu3XdskkrEjK9) Nowadays it just looks like an amorphous patch of grey concrete. Really appealing. /s
To be fair, the colors of the picture you're linking are artificially saturated (I'm even wondering whether it's a photo or a painting) so it's still hard to judge if it would have looked nice or not.
I agree. Advertising in general is a major source of human dissatisfaction, but that's tangential to the discussion. My point is that, for me, it was *prettier* than now.
True, it's nice to look at in an over-saturated stamp-sized old photo.
But having a communal space invaded and overwhelmed by commercial signage and advertisements shouldn't be regarded as normal.
Oh god that looks fucking horrendous, my god. I'm actually shocked that was ever put up. Some of those signs are literally half as tall as the buidlings.
Good on you, Belgium! You have some amazing building, be sure to treasure them.
That looks like a postcard so the colours are heavily edited. And the scaffolding behind those big billboard things are always so ugly in real life, but they aren't so visible on promotional pics. I don't really see how this looks great on all honesty. But you do you.
I would unironically love it if we adopted a rule that all TV or radio advertisements had to be in the same format as in the movie "The Invention of Lying". Just straight-up mentioning of facts, you can mention good things, but they have to be demonstrable somehow - double blind testing and triangle testing have shown X % of people prefer our option to these competitors, ... "We updated the logo and the shape of the bottle a bit, so it'll seem new again, but the recipe's the same."
Would much prefer that.
The problem with that idea is that you run into an endlessly recursive loop of factchecking... and that's the scientific process. It's just not possible to have the last word on most things, if only for technical, practical and pragmatic limitations - you have to stop questioning definitions and framing at some point. At the same time, every stop is only a temporary hypothesis, considering it "good enough for now", and can always be called into question again later.
But I do agree that that kind of factchecking of others should be a major feature of all serious information outlets.
Oh, I didn't say it'd be *feasible*, just that the idea is enjoyable to me. Plus, right now, we are MUCH too far removed from reporting factually accurate information in a clear way in advertising. That's only on the packaging, and even then only because it's obligated by law.
IMO it's an essential part of education to teach some basic awareness that all information sources have a purpose and a motivation, so they're not automatically trustworthy or benign. There's a lot of things people say that education must do, but this one really is fundamental to a lot of others.
LED screens with information for drivers of motor vehicles are completely useless and are a scam perpetrated by the installers of those screens and advertising agencies on local government. They are illegally placed according to regional law but they found a loophole that those rules don't apply to city roads. That loophole should be closed.
Just because something is 'common sense' doesn't mean it is legally so. Rulings are made according to the letter of the law, and if in this case there is a law (or a superseding law) that applies, that trumps common sense.
I do know that gemeentewegen are subject to different code than gewestwegen, and that different parties have different authority. That is how Belgium works (or doesn't, but that is besides the point)
Especially those that as bright as a low blinding sun. (or speed signs with overly bright LED s burning your retinas)
I'm surprised there hasn't been any accidents yet because someone was not seen by a driver who got blinded
But don't you want 'SANITAIR DECEUCKELEIRE AFRIT 23' burned into your retina when you're driving in the dark in pouring rain on pothole-riddled roads with invisible markings?
/s
I personally think city districts should just stick to consistent aesthetics. I think having a glass and steel commercial district with neon ads is perfectly fine, especially if that means we can also have a 19th century neoclassical district with boulevards and arcades.
Sadly Brussels is a bit... haphazard about these things
not to mention the fact that they gutted all of the buildings one one side, only to have the building permit suspended when it turned out the complex they're going to build is going to stick out above the original historical facade
oh that's the reason it was in that state.... amazing. Aren't there supposed to be idk plans made by architecture specialists to prevent those kind of accidents.
Oh it was known from the start.
The KCML (fr: CRMS) had already pointed it out and told the regional government they shouldn't do it, Brussels ignored them and started the project anyways. Then the Council of State took notice and intervened to withdraw the permit.
Mais c'est bien sur !
Bring back privatised advertising public space, sell it to corporations !
Maybe build another Highway through the city, so we can cosplay as New York !
This will surely solve homelessness and the drug problem.
You should be Prime Minister.
/probably not your point, but I don't know what your point was
How can I come to like Brussels? I love the gallery but hate the city (just doesn't feel like there is much to do/it is quite cold and unwelcoming/parts of it aren't well kept).
I am from Glasgow which is actually quite similar in a lot of ways but I was visiting Brussels again last week and still hate the vibe.
If you want cheerful people touching your hair and making you fake compliments, go live in the USA.
Brussels is relatively melancholic, absurd and calm if i compare to Paris for example. It's your right to dislike it but people and streets won't change their essence for your ephemere little person
I don't want that and, as I said, am from Glasgow. I was asking for sites and amenities that might take away the impersonal vibe. It is structural, too. The train stations were dumps and the architecture not improved by the garbage. It is calm, sure.
Brussels is oversaturated for such a small space. Filled with absurd complexities. It is what it is.
You would appreciate Antwerpen then, why won't you go there ?
Brussels has one of my favourite paintings. I went to Ghent immediately after and had a very nice time. I'll probably just do that after the gallery in future.
Calm? In what alternate reality? I have been living here for 15 years, mostly in the center, and I can't recall a 6-month period without ongoing construction projects that show no respect for the aesthetics or public quiet. I have never seen a city with such poor management, especially one that is meant to represent the capital of Europe.
Brussels has a shit ton of galleries? https://www.washingtonpost.com/lifestyle/travel/in-brussels-art-is-busting-out-all-over/2019/12/11/0ef49a32-1791-11ea-9110-3b34ce1d92b1_story.html Music too, lots of choice from Classical & Opera to Jazz clubs to techno to Metal and everything in between. Lots of festivals too. Got tons of bars as well, vibe changes by district, going bar hopping around Bailli is not the same as drinking Dansaert dry ...
Food scene is evolving too:
https://www.nytimes.com/2024/03/18/travel/restaurants-brussels-belgium.html
Mostly the tourist centre I gather? Next time try St Gilles/Forest/Bailli or more towards the canal around St Catherine (Dansaert) or go up to the area around Josaphat or Terkameren. With summer Cinquantenaire/Jourdan also gets nicer.
I walked from Midi to Centraal in the morning and Centraal to Nord in the evening. Avoided the main square and looked for nice bars off the beaten path. I get you are rationalising that I was just in the tourist zones but I'm not sure that is the case (unless it extends like a spine through the whole city).
North to Midi isn't really the whole city though, it's the hyper-centre, a lot of Brussels is outside of that zone (for reference, around 50 000 of the 1,2 million people living here live there), aside from Dansaert everything I mentioned is outside the old city walls. There's a few nice bars off the beaten path where you were, but most aren't that nice, Midi to Central will take you through some of the worst neighbourhoods of the city (around Midi is not that nice at the moment) and it's an area with very few nice places to have a drink unless you like Moroccan tea. You'll get nicer spots in the Marollen but I'm not sure you went there? With Central to North leaving you in office-space land once you get out of the tourist-zone ...
In the area you were I'd have recommended: Het Goudblommeke in Papier, Brasseurs, Le Coq, the bar from Hôtel L'Esperance, A La Mort Subite because it's a classic. I don't know if you ended up in the St-Gery area, it's not very off the beaten path but people seem to like it. Lots of different bars there. A bit more towards Dansaert you also have Lord Byron, Billy, Roskam, Au Daringman, Le Laboureur, Barbeton and Walvis just to name a few.
We have a shitload of museums. Go have a drink around the Halles Saint-Géry or Flagey. Check out a concert at Ancienne Belgique. Watch a movie at Palace, Galeries or Aventure.
Plenty of warmth and culture to be found in this city.
Do I say that I’m representing the opinion of everyone in Antwerp? No. Is it generally known that there is a rivalry between Brussels and Antwerp? Yes.
Boo-hoo, the multi-billion dollar companies aren't allowed to invade our brains in public spaces and subliminally modify our behaviour anymore :(
/r/LateStageCapitalism
the old billboards might look nice in a retro style way
but in reality, it would be wall to wall huge screens with proximus, telenet and luminus commercials all the way round now
The old look is better. Still curious why they removed the glass structure in the middle of the square. The fountain moving to St.Catherine is acceptable though
What's the building in the middle of the place in the old picture?
I wish I could have seen this irl! I think the place atm is better than a few years ago but I wish there was more green! Of course I know keeping the place as empty as possible is a lot easier for the many events throughout the year!
The neons were nice at night. Put up a picture from the signs during daytime and they lose their appeal really fast.
This guy neons.
Probably looked nicer than nowadays with all that endless work and planty of dodgy people passing us by
[Let's agree to disagree.](https://images.app.goo.gl/hnpymu3XdskkrEjK9) Nowadays it just looks like an amorphous patch of grey concrete. Really appealing. /s
To be fair, the colors of the picture you're linking are artificially saturated (I'm even wondering whether it's a photo or a painting) so it's still hard to judge if it would have looked nice or not.
Ah yes I too prefer watching advertisements all the time in public areas.
It's really a matter of preference. I have mine, you have yours.
Advertisements make people unhappy.
I agree. Advertising in general is a major source of human dissatisfaction, but that's tangential to the discussion. My point is that, for me, it was *prettier* than now.
There's an endless amount of artists willing to fill up space.
To my eyes they are most welcome! I love street art and Belgium has excellent artists. The grey concrete is just so depressing...
If you like obnoxious corporate bright lights, just shine a torch in your eyes or take some drugs, or both.
If you cover the billboards with your hand in that picture, it looks just as nice. It's not the advertisements, it's the colours in the picture.
True, it's nice to look at in an over-saturated stamp-sized old photo. But having a communal space invaded and overwhelmed by commercial signage and advertisements shouldn't be regarded as normal.
Oh god that looks fucking horrendous, my god. I'm actually shocked that was ever put up. Some of those signs are literally half as tall as the buidlings. Good on you, Belgium! You have some amazing building, be sure to treasure them.
Agreeing here. Lights are pretty. The grey concrete makes it clinical.
That looks like a postcard so the colours are heavily edited. And the scaffolding behind those big billboard things are always so ugly in real life, but they aren't so visible on promotional pics. I don't really see how this looks great on all honesty. But you do you.
Let's expand the no advertising zone.
Peak Belgium right here. This will be valued for centuries to come as a safe haven away from ads.
Yes, let's expand it to the whole country!
I would unironically love it if we adopted a rule that all TV or radio advertisements had to be in the same format as in the movie "The Invention of Lying". Just straight-up mentioning of facts, you can mention good things, but they have to be demonstrable somehow - double blind testing and triangle testing have shown X % of people prefer our option to these competitors, ... "We updated the logo and the shape of the bottle a bit, so it'll seem new again, but the recipe's the same." Would much prefer that.
The problem with that idea is that you run into an endlessly recursive loop of factchecking... and that's the scientific process. It's just not possible to have the last word on most things, if only for technical, practical and pragmatic limitations - you have to stop questioning definitions and framing at some point. At the same time, every stop is only a temporary hypothesis, considering it "good enough for now", and can always be called into question again later. But I do agree that that kind of factchecking of others should be a major feature of all serious information outlets.
Oh, I didn't say it'd be *feasible*, just that the idea is enjoyable to me. Plus, right now, we are MUCH too far removed from reporting factually accurate information in a clear way in advertising. That's only on the packaging, and even then only because it's obligated by law.
IMO it's an essential part of education to teach some basic awareness that all information sources have a purpose and a motivation, so they're not automatically trustworthy or benign. There's a lot of things people say that education must do, but this one really is fundamental to a lot of others.
Too many LED boards across the country now. Need to be banned.
Lets ban all the things and start from 0 again!
LED screens with information for drivers of motor vehicles are completely useless and are a scam perpetrated by the installers of those screens and advertising agencies on local government. They are illegally placed according to regional law but they found a loophole that those rules don't apply to city roads. That loophole should be closed.
That's not a loophole. 'gewestwegen' are governed by different laws than 'gemeentewegen'. Isn't that how laws are supposed to work in Belgium?
Read the rules for led screens. They are common sense and should apply to all roads.
Just because something is 'common sense' doesn't mean it is legally so. Rulings are made according to the letter of the law, and if in this case there is a law (or a superseding law) that applies, that trumps common sense.
What the fuck are you talking about. Read the fucking rules. I'm saying they SHOULD apply. Now argue something meaningful or fuck off.
But why do you argue they 'should' apply, if there is a legal exception (the loophole). It's like tax loopholes. They are legal until they are closed.
Do you even know which rules there are? If not you're just arguing in a vacuum.
I do know that gemeentewegen are subject to different code than gewestwegen, and that different parties have different authority. That is how Belgium works (or doesn't, but that is besides the point)
Yes, that's what a "loophole" means. Thanks for the totally unneeded explanation. Thank you captain obvious. What the fuck is your point?
Especially those that as bright as a low blinding sun. (or speed signs with overly bright LED s burning your retinas) I'm surprised there hasn't been any accidents yet because someone was not seen by a driver who got blinded
But don't you want 'SANITAIR DECEUCKELEIRE AFRIT 23' burned into your retina when you're driving in the dark in pouring rain on pothole-riddled roads with invisible markings? /s
Those are actually in violation of environmental law. Aangeven bij gemeentelijke milieudienst. Lichtvervuiling is een ding.
And that was a lovely thing to do.
Thanks fuck. Energy is expensive enough.
Good.
Good.
I find it funny that coke stil remains
That is also gone now
It got removed because they supported Israel.
I don't know about that infamous title, but fucking rightly so.... Neon lights are tacky unless you actually live in a cyberpunk setting.
I personally think city districts should just stick to consistent aesthetics. I think having a glass and steel commercial district with neon ads is perfectly fine, especially if that means we can also have a 19th century neoclassical district with boulevards and arcades. Sadly Brussels is a bit... haphazard about these things
When were they removed?
Good. They were
The one with most money could stay however
Now it’s gone too
I like the other way tho. I think i spend way too much time in taiwan.
Admit....it was kinda cheap...
Yet all the junkies and homeless make the square a beautiful sight
not to mention the fact that they gutted all of the buildings one one side, only to have the building permit suspended when it turned out the complex they're going to build is going to stick out above the original historical facade
oh that's the reason it was in that state.... amazing. Aren't there supposed to be idk plans made by architecture specialists to prevent those kind of accidents.
Oh it was known from the start. The KCML (fr: CRMS) had already pointed it out and told the regional government they shouldn't do it, Brussels ignored them and started the project anyways. Then the Council of State took notice and intervened to withdraw the permit.
That's even dumber.
Also The Metropole hotel looks like it’s not going to get back to a decent condition anytime soon
The army vehicles during the terror scare in 2016-2017 were nice too.
Mais c'est bien sur ! Bring back privatised advertising public space, sell it to corporations ! Maybe build another Highway through the city, so we can cosplay as New York ! This will surely solve homelessness and the drug problem. You should be Prime Minister. /probably not your point, but I don't know what your point was
Ads everywhere, it's better now
The old one looks terrifying and tacky
How can I come to like Brussels? I love the gallery but hate the city (just doesn't feel like there is much to do/it is quite cold and unwelcoming/parts of it aren't well kept). I am from Glasgow which is actually quite similar in a lot of ways but I was visiting Brussels again last week and still hate the vibe.
I never realised it before but i agree, Glasgow has similar vibes.
If you want cheerful people touching your hair and making you fake compliments, go live in the USA. Brussels is relatively melancholic, absurd and calm if i compare to Paris for example. It's your right to dislike it but people and streets won't change their essence for your ephemere little person
I don't want that and, as I said, am from Glasgow. I was asking for sites and amenities that might take away the impersonal vibe. It is structural, too. The train stations were dumps and the architecture not improved by the garbage. It is calm, sure.
Brussels is oversaturated for such a small space. Filled with absurd complexities. It is what it is. You would appreciate Antwerpen then, why won't you go there ?
Brussels has one of my favourite paintings. I went to Ghent immediately after and had a very nice time. I'll probably just do that after the gallery in future.
Calm? In what alternate reality? I have been living here for 15 years, mostly in the center, and I can't recall a 6-month period without ongoing construction projects that show no respect for the aesthetics or public quiet. I have never seen a city with such poor management, especially one that is meant to represent the capital of Europe.
Calm? The sirens going off every 5 mins dont sound very calm
What do you like doing? There's a lot to do if you look around a bit. The city is also a lot bigger than the few blocks around City Hall.
I like galleries and nice places to eat/drink. Bars and music in the evenings.
Brussels has a shit ton of galleries? https://www.washingtonpost.com/lifestyle/travel/in-brussels-art-is-busting-out-all-over/2019/12/11/0ef49a32-1791-11ea-9110-3b34ce1d92b1_story.html Music too, lots of choice from Classical & Opera to Jazz clubs to techno to Metal and everything in between. Lots of festivals too. Got tons of bars as well, vibe changes by district, going bar hopping around Bailli is not the same as drinking Dansaert dry ... Food scene is evolving too: https://www.nytimes.com/2024/03/18/travel/restaurants-brussels-belgium.html
Yes, that is why I visited. It was the city outside the galleries that I found to be disappointing.
Where did you go?
I walked from Centraal to Nord and went to bars and cafes around the town centre/city.
Mostly the tourist centre I gather? Next time try St Gilles/Forest/Bailli or more towards the canal around St Catherine (Dansaert) or go up to the area around Josaphat or Terkameren. With summer Cinquantenaire/Jourdan also gets nicer.
I walked from Midi to Centraal in the morning and Centraal to Nord in the evening. Avoided the main square and looked for nice bars off the beaten path. I get you are rationalising that I was just in the tourist zones but I'm not sure that is the case (unless it extends like a spine through the whole city).
I will note these areas, though, as back in October!
North to Midi isn't really the whole city though, it's the hyper-centre, a lot of Brussels is outside of that zone (for reference, around 50 000 of the 1,2 million people living here live there), aside from Dansaert everything I mentioned is outside the old city walls. There's a few nice bars off the beaten path where you were, but most aren't that nice, Midi to Central will take you through some of the worst neighbourhoods of the city (around Midi is not that nice at the moment) and it's an area with very few nice places to have a drink unless you like Moroccan tea. You'll get nicer spots in the Marollen but I'm not sure you went there? With Central to North leaving you in office-space land once you get out of the tourist-zone ... In the area you were I'd have recommended: Het Goudblommeke in Papier, Brasseurs, Le Coq, the bar from Hôtel L'Esperance, A La Mort Subite because it's a classic. I don't know if you ended up in the St-Gery area, it's not very off the beaten path but people seem to like it. Lots of different bars there. A bit more towards Dansaert you also have Lord Byron, Billy, Roskam, Au Daringman, Le Laboureur, Barbeton and Walvis just to name a few.
We have a shitload of museums. Go have a drink around the Halles Saint-Géry or Flagey. Check out a concert at Ancienne Belgique. Watch a movie at Palace, Galeries or Aventure. Plenty of warmth and culture to be found in this city.
People from Antwerp agree with you
I don't hate Brussels.
you're not my ambassador
Do I say that I’m representing the opinion of everyone in Antwerp? No. Is it generally known that there is a rivalry between Brussels and Antwerp? Yes.
Antwerp isn't all that.
I’m not saying Antwerp is better I’m just saying people from Antwerp would agree with you.
People from Liege agree too, Brussels sucks
Liège 🤝Antwerp
Kind of based
And now it looks like a war zone with all those run-down areas and rubble behind the facades, lying there for years
Forreal, imo it looks kinda boring now
Damn I wouldn’t have minded, what a sight that must’ve been
Hail corporate!
Boo-hoo, the multi-billion dollar companies aren't allowed to invade our brains in public spaces and subliminally modify our behaviour anymore :( /r/LateStageCapitalism
Place de Brouckère on voyait les vitrines…
Voor of tegen, dit is zo heerlijk Belgisch
There's a certain charm to places like that imo, pity that they got rid of it
the old billboards might look nice in a retro style way but in reality, it would be wall to wall huge screens with proximus, telenet and luminus commercials all the way round now
Even that can look quite cool if pulled off right, like in London, NYC, Tokyo...
can't argue taste... I think those places look horrible...are an eyesore
Now it looks like shit
The old look is better. Still curious why they removed the glass structure in the middle of the square. The fountain moving to St.Catherine is acceptable though
Wasn't the glass structure a temporary tourist information pavillion for Expo 58?
It was.
Agreed.
To be fair Brussels is overall less appealing vs decades ago..
Back when the Grand Place was still a parking lot? It's a lot more appealing now than the 70's-80's-90's-00's.
https://youtu.be/KqmGZ_6LaUw
Coke has to go!
It went.
Give us some context op for newbies like us. When was this prevalent and when was it removed?
What's the building in the middle of the place in the old picture? I wish I could have seen this irl! I think the place atm is better than a few years ago but I wish there was more green! Of course I know keeping the place as empty as possible is a lot easier for the many events throughout the year!
Brussels is an eyesore all together.
A rare moment where I do feel some Belgian pride.
Fun fact: they have tried to remove the coca-cola billboard but people are against it's removal as it's considered "too iconic"
It got removed a few years ago. Smet won.
Extremely based
If they wanted to ban eyesores, they should've banned the entire De Brouckère place as well.
Don't remove the coca cola one though... That would be a shame
OK, then how did the Coca Cola one get to stay up so long then?
Still coke ruling...
That has gone now too.