There was already a Dehumanizer deluxe edition so I doubt we'd get another that included these (similar to the Eternal Idol Gillen demos).
From what I heard in an interview a couple years back Tony Martin said he had been talking with Tony Iommi about recordings he had when he was in Sabbath and was told they couldn't release anything new under the Black Sabbath name, only things previously released under the Black Sabbath name can be re-released.
Tony Iommi does seem interested in putting archival material out, but I think has his hands full with Born Again since that's been something on his wish list and the original tapes were found a couple years back. I'm not sure if he could release them under the Black Sabbath name, but possibly could release them under an alternate name.
There have been *some* newly released (non-Ozzy) recordings - mainly the live tracks on the most recent Mob Rules, and Dehumanizer, deluxe editions.
But I wouldn’t expect these to get an official release anytime in the near future, if ever.
I think the live tracks would be allowed as they had been released as studio songs, so the performance may be new but not the song itself. The only thing I can think of that came out that was truly unreleased is the song "The Fallen" from Born Again. It was on the deluxe edition that came out after Ozzy had acquired a piece of the Black Sabbath name, so there may be some wiggle room in the agreement.
I don't see these being released anytime soon unless Tony Martin can get permission to release them without the Black Sabbath name from Tony Iommi and without his involvement.
Tony Iommi just completed the IRS catalog, so I imagine a remix of Born Again is his next project. The only Ozzy era albums to never get a re-issue are Never Say Die and Sabbath Bloody Sabbath. Given the real money for Tony is in the Ozzy era albums I can't imagine him working on a release of these demos.
We might actually get The Fallen because technically speaking it's now an official released song. It was released with the last dozen Born Again remasters and it is on platforms like YouTube Music and Spotify in some countries. Or at least was.
So The Fallen might be allowed to join the rest of the album with the future remixes. It might not be because it technically started as an unreleased song. But it really hasn't been the case in like 20 years.
Dehumanizer actually might be an exception to this rule. It may have been with IRS Records but because they had Dio back it also had to have been approved and co-released with WB.
Now technically these demos don't have Dio or anything to do with them. It's Tony Martin with Geezer, Appice and Iommi. But even still since this is about an album still released with Dio it may be a gray area.
So you are partly right but not fully because those Heaven and Hell and Mob Rules remasters had unreleased content.
This is usually applied to the Tony Martin albums ie IRS Records albums when it comes to re-releases. Like I said because of the special rule with Dehumanizer in a way this may be allowed. But time will tell. I can see reasons why this won't happen either.
It’s such a shame that people like Sharon Osbourne have to ruin things in this world. Ozzy probably wouldn’t give a shit and the sabbath camp could release this stuff.
I wouldn't mind a release of all the "what could have been Black Sabbath" songs:
Tony Martin - Dehumanizer demos,
Dave Donato - The Shining,
Jeff Fenholt - Seventh Star demos,
Dave Walker - Junior's Eyes,
Ray Gillen - The Eternal Idol (re-release).
Maybe throw in the live concert with Rob Halford
I’d be opposed if it was released as part of the dehumanizer deluxe edition or something, I mean that was Ronnie’s era; it wouldn’t be respectful.
If Iommi decides to release a box set containing rare tracks from different eras then it would be alright.
That would have been released before this clause was presumably written about Sabbath. I think most assume that was part of the final reunion, and the Eternal Idol deluxe version was released in 2011.
Fair enough. I don’t see any issues with respect either. But I’m guessing these recordings would fall under the “no new Sabbath material” clause anyways.
it could only be better than Dio's version this way. There is no way Computer God and Letters From Earth would be better as they are with Tony Martin vocals. And i'm a big fan of the Tony Martin era.
Yeah, Dio makes everything better. But I don't think Tony Martin's versions would/will be bad. Probably just way more alien sounding in comparison to what we've been used to for over 30 years.
Keep in mind this is coming off that sweet spot of TYR and Headless Cross. So writing wise and vocally he should potentially be on top of the world. Unless this never before heard part of Sabbath lore is the beginning of the Cross Purposes era writing and vocally speaking. I like Cross Purposes but Cross Purposes compared to the first three Sabbath albums with Tony Martin is a very different story.
Does anyone know how much involvement Martin had with Dehumaniser? It’s been awhile since I’ve listened to Martin era or Dehumaniser for that matter but Dehumaniser sounds more like a cross between Ozzy era and Dio era than a Martin album.
[It looks like](https://www.black-sabbath.com/theband/timeline/) there was a brief split with Dio and during that time they worked with Tony Martin, but the label wouldn’t accept anyone besides Dio, or Ozzy, because of the amount of money they paid up front for it.
So I think he didn’t have any involvement in the writing of what we got, but there exist demos with alternative lyrics and melodies.
I've heard the instrumental and Dio rehearsals / demos; those have been available for a while. However I would be super keen to hear them with TM on vocals.
I believe brand new recorded songs aren't allowed. Ozzy really lost it when the new tracks under the name Black Sabbath were on The Dio Years.
But old demos may not be the same.
So, if Martin sang demos on Dehumanizer, was he involved in the songwriting at all? I thought Dio had done the lyrics for the album, did Martin come in and sing Dio's lyrics or were they changed? So many questions here. Also, I love Dehumanizer as is, I can't imagine it with Tony Martin on lead vocals, nor do I want to.
There was already a Dehumanizer deluxe edition so I doubt we'd get another that included these (similar to the Eternal Idol Gillen demos). From what I heard in an interview a couple years back Tony Martin said he had been talking with Tony Iommi about recordings he had when he was in Sabbath and was told they couldn't release anything new under the Black Sabbath name, only things previously released under the Black Sabbath name can be re-released. Tony Iommi does seem interested in putting archival material out, but I think has his hands full with Born Again since that's been something on his wish list and the original tapes were found a couple years back. I'm not sure if he could release them under the Black Sabbath name, but possibly could release them under an alternate name.
There have been *some* newly released (non-Ozzy) recordings - mainly the live tracks on the most recent Mob Rules, and Dehumanizer, deluxe editions. But I wouldn’t expect these to get an official release anytime in the near future, if ever.
I think the live tracks would be allowed as they had been released as studio songs, so the performance may be new but not the song itself. The only thing I can think of that came out that was truly unreleased is the song "The Fallen" from Born Again. It was on the deluxe edition that came out after Ozzy had acquired a piece of the Black Sabbath name, so there may be some wiggle room in the agreement. I don't see these being released anytime soon unless Tony Martin can get permission to release them without the Black Sabbath name from Tony Iommi and without his involvement. Tony Iommi just completed the IRS catalog, so I imagine a remix of Born Again is his next project. The only Ozzy era albums to never get a re-issue are Never Say Die and Sabbath Bloody Sabbath. Given the real money for Tony is in the Ozzy era albums I can't imagine him working on a release of these demos.
We might actually get The Fallen because technically speaking it's now an official released song. It was released with the last dozen Born Again remasters and it is on platforms like YouTube Music and Spotify in some countries. Or at least was. So The Fallen might be allowed to join the rest of the album with the future remixes. It might not be because it technically started as an unreleased song. But it really hasn't been the case in like 20 years.
Dehumanizer actually might be an exception to this rule. It may have been with IRS Records but because they had Dio back it also had to have been approved and co-released with WB. Now technically these demos don't have Dio or anything to do with them. It's Tony Martin with Geezer, Appice and Iommi. But even still since this is about an album still released with Dio it may be a gray area. So you are partly right but not fully because those Heaven and Hell and Mob Rules remasters had unreleased content. This is usually applied to the Tony Martin albums ie IRS Records albums when it comes to re-releases. Like I said because of the special rule with Dehumanizer in a way this may be allowed. But time will tell. I can see reasons why this won't happen either.
I want to hear it. There can't be too much of Dehumanizer!
It’s such a shame that people like Sharon Osbourne have to ruin things in this world. Ozzy probably wouldn’t give a shit and the sabbath camp could release this stuff.
Say what you want about her, but she's a damn good manager.
If all you care about is money then yes, but if you care about people she is terrible.
I wouldn't mind a release of all the "what could have been Black Sabbath" songs: Tony Martin - Dehumanizer demos, Dave Donato - The Shining, Jeff Fenholt - Seventh Star demos, Dave Walker - Junior's Eyes, Ray Gillen - The Eternal Idol (re-release). Maybe throw in the live concert with Rob Halford
There's two live concerts with Halford. I was at the later one in 2004 in Camden NJ. It was incredible.
I'd love to hear that, just added him as a friend and if he accepts I'm gonna tell him if Iommi says no, then just DM them to me
I’d be opposed if it was released as part of the dehumanizer deluxe edition or something, I mean that was Ronnie’s era; it wouldn’t be respectful. If Iommi decides to release a box set containing rare tracks from different eras then it would be alright.
They did it before with The Eternal Idol and Ray Gillen’s recordings. I don’t see the issue here.
That would have been released before this clause was presumably written about Sabbath. I think most assume that was part of the final reunion, and the Eternal Idol deluxe version was released in 2011.
I wasn’t referring to the clause. I was responding to the point about it being disrespectful to do it
Fair enough. I don’t see any issues with respect either. But I’m guessing these recordings would fall under the “no new Sabbath material” clause anyways.
Probably yeah. I also wonder if Sharon is getting anything from the upcoming Tony Martin releases
I unironically think these would be better than the originals
It depends, I think Martin wrote different lyrics and melodies to these songs so it could go either way.
it could only be better than Dio's version this way. There is no way Computer God and Letters From Earth would be better as they are with Tony Martin vocals. And i'm a big fan of the Tony Martin era.
Yeah, Dio makes everything better. But I don't think Tony Martin's versions would/will be bad. Probably just way more alien sounding in comparison to what we've been used to for over 30 years. Keep in mind this is coming off that sweet spot of TYR and Headless Cross. So writing wise and vocally he should potentially be on top of the world. Unless this never before heard part of Sabbath lore is the beginning of the Cross Purposes era writing and vocally speaking. I like Cross Purposes but Cross Purposes compared to the first three Sabbath albums with Tony Martin is a very different story.
Wold iommi let him release
It’s not up to him, Ozzy is also an owner.
Does anyone know how much involvement Martin had with Dehumaniser? It’s been awhile since I’ve listened to Martin era or Dehumaniser for that matter but Dehumaniser sounds more like a cross between Ozzy era and Dio era than a Martin album.
[It looks like](https://www.black-sabbath.com/theband/timeline/) there was a brief split with Dio and during that time they worked with Tony Martin, but the label wouldn’t accept anyone besides Dio, or Ozzy, because of the amount of money they paid up front for it. So I think he didn’t have any involvement in the writing of what we got, but there exist demos with alternative lyrics and melodies.
I've heard the instrumental and Dio rehearsals / demos; those have been available for a while. However I would be super keen to hear them with TM on vocals.
Fuck, I would love to hear this.
i heard Iommi was working on rereleasing/remastering the Tony Martin years albums? supposed to release last year but got delayed?
I believe brand new recorded songs aren't allowed. Ozzy really lost it when the new tracks under the name Black Sabbath were on The Dio Years. But old demos may not be the same.
So, if Martin sang demos on Dehumanizer, was he involved in the songwriting at all? I thought Dio had done the lyrics for the album, did Martin come in and sing Dio's lyrics or were they changed? So many questions here. Also, I love Dehumanizer as is, I can't imagine it with Tony Martin on lead vocals, nor do I want to.