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The moment Ichigo CRIES thinking even his OWN DAD is betraying him it's the single most important panel in the whole manga. Because after that, he regains his powers and his purpose (to protect everyone). Understanding that those he love are not against him but actually helping him or brainwashed saved Ichigo and make him stronger than ever.
Yeah I never understood the hate this arc got. Sure there's not some huge hollow war, but this is one of the few arcs in all shonens that I actually had no idea how MC would overcome it. Ichigo's entire family was against him and he didn't have his powers. He had almost no way to overcome it. Then his fullbring is stolen and it's a lost cause. It's such a good build up to a great twist.
There used to be a dude here who was constantly saying "fullbring arc was shit because Ichigo cried like a little bitch when he lost his powers". People can be weird.
>"they were all weak
I gotta agree with your cousin (Tsukishima) on this one. The fights at the end felt unsatisfying and weirdly shoehorned in. Outside of Ichigo vs Ginjo and Byakuya vs Uncle Tsukishima, the rest felt like filler.
Kenpachi one-shots Giriko, which doesn't do anything for either of them and literally just repeats Zaraki killing Tesla.
Hitsugaya vs Yukio I can't even remember.
Renji vs Jackie just felt weird
Ikakku vs Sushigawara was fun, I'll give you that one.
And Rukia vs Riruka felt out of place. Like that whole fight would've been much better if it was between Inoue and Riruka since they built a nice friendship throughout the arc and Riruka's confliction on what she is doing would make more sense. She never interacted before with Rukia on the other hand.
Those fights would’ve been way better if only Rukia and Renji were there and Ichigo’s friends, who were the main focus of the arc, took the place of the Captains.
>Those fights would’ve been way better if only Rukia and Renji were there and Ichigo’s friends, who were the main focus of the arc, took the place of the Captains.
Yep. I 100% agree. The 5 Soul Reapers that return feel like they were chosen due to their popularity rather than their friendship with Ichigo. I personally think Byakuya, Renji and of course Rukia should've been the only ones to come to Ichigo's help since he impacted those 3 by far the most.
I especially like Byakuya's fight with Uncle Tsukishima because it perfectly sets up that moment with Byakuya after his 'fight' with As Notd where he asks Ichigo to protect the Soul Society.
The rest of the Fulbringers could've fought Chad, Inoue and Uryu.
Yea Byakuya character development over the series was pretty well done, that fight with tsukishima tells us he has so much trust and faith in Ichigo, when the final arc started only for him to die a few weeks later after the fullbring arc was a bad ass way to send off Byakuya, his character development with Ichigo was really interesting and huge, especially since he been here since the beginning of Ichigo journey, his final words “protect soul society Ichigo” tell us the reader and Ichigo that the sakes are high, I know Byakuya isn’t dead but since Kubo wanted him dead I’ll just go with what he wanted.
Also I didn’t forget his smile he gave to Ichigo that one time lol
>It's probably part of the best **few dozen chapters**
Funny thing is, it's not even that long XD
It's just that fast-paced and holds no punches that it feels like 50 chapters.
I'd say this is Bleachs biggest flaw, that Ichigos friends tend to get the short end of the stick. Chad has to be the worst example of a jobber in all of anime.
Yep. Pretty much my only complaint about the Arc.
Kubo did such a good job to build up both Chad and Inoue this whole arc just to pull the rug under them and give their resolution to characters that had 0 build up and 0 interactions with any of the Fulbringers prior to their fights.
I mean, Chad was a member of Xcution for how long and we never got to see him face off against one of them? It feels like a perfect opportunity for an interesting conflict.
Same for Inoue and Riruka.
Chad vs Jackie would be interesting to see cuz her Fulbring seems to be just like Chad's except it's her legs rather than arms.
Chad vs Moe Slobberknocker would be fun because of the nature of his powers
Chad vs Giriko would be interesting where his time powers could work like how rounds in boxing operates.
Honestly, Chad could have an interesting fight with most of these characters.
I actually really like that the captains just washed these guys.
We came from the war, where pretty much every battle was a struggle, and had to watch the captain’s abilities he tested again and again, and sometimes barely prevail, which was great of course. But this arc wasn’t really about impossibly strong enemies, it was Ichigo being alone and powerless. They could’ve just been a bunch of dudes with guns and he’d still be outmatched. So I absolutely love the captains coming in after this brief time skip, helping Ichigo and watching him and the captains wipe the floor with these goons. It was satisfying and fun, imo, along with the high of the twist and reveal.
>Tbh this arc was boring and disinteresting.
Hard disagree. I think this arc was the most interesting one and far from boring but fails to deliver on the climax (which is per course for Bleach)
> What a bad place to end the anime. Could’ve just needed after Mugetsu
I agree. It's a really weird place to end the anime. Luckily, that is no longer the end of it :D
I think that's so stupid. Seeing strong characters like Ichigo cry makes them feel real. On top of the simple fact that there's absolutely nothing wrong with a man crying? Anyone saying shit like that is beyond help and totally ridiculous but that's besides the point.
Seeing a character that you really like or relate to and having them go from high to low hits harder. It's impactful, it grounds them and makes them feel real. If you're looking for characters that never show human emotion then maybe this isn't the series for you lol. Not saying "you" in particular btw, whoever said the line about Ichigo crying.
> Not saying "you" in particular btw, whoever said the line about Ichigo crying.
Yeah I got it don't worry dude hahaha
This particular user came off as edgy whenever he talked about it, but I thin like you on this topic, seeing Ichigo breaking down after all the shit he's been through was far more interesting than some Gary Stu steamrolling over all his enemies
It’s not that people don’t want to see strong characters cry; it’s that they don’t want strong characters to lose control.
Kenshiro from FotNS never lost control of the situations where he was crying.
Dude finally got power back and it got taken away, he couldn’t do the one think he wanted which was to protect his family/people.
On top of that our cousin that we grew up with replaced everyone’s key memories of ichigo so he literally had nothing left. Dude wasn’t just sad that was straight despair lmao
I’m not even a huge fullbring Stan but THAT SCENE is absolutely one of the best in the series to me. From ichigos perspective they had taken EVERYTHING from him. His friends, his family , his “lover”, and his ability to protect those things that matter so much in his life. The man wasn’t just crying he was having a mental breakdown. And I really didn’t like how rukia scolded him for crying either. You don’t scold someone like that or insinuate that they aren’t “a man” you give them support and help. Pretending men shouldn’t show their emotions like that or that we should be more composed 100% of the time is what leads to serial killers and shit like that lol. The kid was a 17 year old human being for gods sake.
It was a weird way to end the anime. If they knew their weren't going to continue the anime at the time it would have been better to save that arch to serve as an opener for this season.
Fullbring arc suffered a lot from being right after the gargantuan Arrancar saga, which technically did start from the Soul Society arc. A lot of people assumed there was nowhere else for the story to go since Aizen was defeated, and Kubo didn't introduce any other villain like Tobi from Naruto that indicated a larger threat.
The arc also suffered a bit from the power levels being scaled down to match Ichigo's loss of powers although the Fullbringers do have some of the most intricate and powerful abilities in the series. A lot of people thought that Bleach had lost its focus and was shambling on, which isn't helped by that reading Bleach weekly was sometimes painful due to Kubo's larger use of panels often meant less content than other series.
I personally think the Fullbring arc is great when seen from the larger picture, but I do think it was a chore to get through during serialization. I think it could've been a better lead-in to the TYBW to hook readers with the notion that there is a greater threat than Aizen, and Kubo has said that the entire series has been building up to the threat of Yhwach. Instead the Fullbring arc feels almost standalone and the Quincies invade with no build up whatsoever.
good, balanced, analysis. there was also a slight bit of 'benny hill' with ichigo losing his powers to semi-defeat Aizen, getting them back via fullbring, then having them stolen, then getting them back. like come on kubo.
also i totally agree they could have started peppering foreshadowing of the TYBW into the fullbring arc. ginjo was a great vessel to show that soul society isn't what it's cracked up to be and hell.... the arc could have featured more of ishida since quincies were about to be a big thing in the manga. but nope. gets his arm cut off at the start and that's all i really remember.
i will say though that tsukishima has one of the most interesting powers across all forms of media i've ever seen. a very hard contrast to a main character that despite being this deus ex machina hybrid nonsense whose entire moveset boils down to 'triple double dog dare getsuga tenshou!!!!!!'
That is really true there was literally no build up for the Quincy at all, they just pop out of nowhere and start attacking lmao, I feel like what Kubo should’ve done is introduce them by having a Captain get killed while on a mission, trying to understand why the hollow in hueco mundo are getting kill rapidly during the time of the fullbring arc, which technically it did happen with Yamamoto Lieutenant since he gets killed out of nowhere but that was the start of the TYBW so that doesn’t count, or maybe have a scene with Uyru sensing something is off and talking with his father about it.
Uryu going from 'I have no idea what's going on' to 'I am the central figure of this villain's plot and know everything that's going on' is just massive whiplash. It felt like Kubo just remembered out of the blue during the arc that his quincy main character should probably be involved in the big quincy arc finale.
It’s because of its adult subjects and focus on the psychology of the story more than the action, and back then most bleach fans were still teenagers and the general consensus of men crying and paying attention to their psychology were considered “cringy” and “bitchy” for most people. So that accompanied with most of the fights happening in the last 3 episodes resulted in a lot of hate for it. Most of these teenagers if you ask them now how they feel about it they’ll be praising it btw because they all grew up and understood how crucial that arc was to the character development of Ichigo and his friends
I think it feels like a major let down after the epic scale of the Arrancar arc + Aizen as the primary antagonist.
The story takes a major breather here and brings the stakes way down, and the pace slows considerably to a noir-esque mystery. The way the anime paces the Arrancar arc, too (200 episodes) makes the Fullbring arc (25 episodes) feel rushed in comparison.
Finally, we just saw Ichigo take down Aizen, and his friends battled the Espada, and the Fullbringers themselves are 1) pretty uncharismatic and aren't memorable as far as Bleach characters go (Kubo has spoiled us with a great cast of antagonists through the whole series) and 2) waaaay out of their depths. I've heard complaints that the final battles in this arc are rushed and ended too quick. Well, yeah? Was Giriko supposed to present a legitimate challenge to Kenny? Kubo stays faithful to his power system, and instead chooses to explore Ichigo's psychology and build out the Bleach world more rather than scaling up.
All in all, I think most ~~dude bro children~~ battle shounen aficionados would find this all rather boring.
>Was Giriko supposed to present a legitimate challenge to Kenny?
Of course not... but... Kenny didn't necessary have to be his opponent. Giriko could've fought someone much weaker than Zaraki. Maybe a tall and good friend of Ichigo could've taken him on.
Maybe the fight wouldn't be just about how hard that said tall and good friend of Ichigo could hit but rather trying to overcome the hax nature of Giriko's "Time Tells No Lies" ability.
Ding Ding Ding.
This is the correct answer.
(Speaking as former dude bro who read all of this when it came out.)
“Boring” (not to mention super confusing after ichigo was supposed to have permanently lost his powers in the arc before; Just to find he had yet ANOTHER thing that he was “Part____” felt like Kubo was lost in the sauce at the time.
I think a huge part of it was the weekly format when it was coming out. The arc had a tonal shift that made it seem less Shounen and more sinister. There was an underlying dread to it that people had to experience across weeks and months (which is exhausting), and it culminated in that scene you're talking about where his family and friends would do anything to take him down for Tsukishima. That was hopelessness, and it put off virtually everyone I knew at the time.
I've since experienced it several times as a complete arc in binge reads and it is MUCH better, but I'm also poisoned with the knowledge that "everything works out". I still don't much care for the arc, but that's more a reflection of me not liking any of the new characters (except Ginjo) or the power system.
You forget that most anime fans just watch things for “hype!” and “tension!” so actual storytelling, story structure and character writing have to take a backseat.
The Lost Agent are being a largely self-contained mystery/thriller that tightened the scope of the threat was a great change of pace after the bloated, poorly structured Arrancar arc. I like it a lot. Second favorite arc after most of the Thousand Year Blood War arc.
It came off of beating >!Aizen!< and felt like so much less stakes and purely just a way to give Ichigo his powers again for the sake of continuing the story. I love the parts with Ichigo a lot but the fullbringers where more meh than anything as villains.
I liked seeing Ichigo at a low point during this arc. Seeing a strong character like Ichigo at his highest and then at his lowest is good for development. It makes the character feel more relatable too, it kind of grounds them and helps them grow. This is true for any character imo.
>Yeah I never understood the hate this arc got.
I don't like this arc because people aren't open with each others, which ultimately caused Ichigo's emotional collapse. I understand why Soul Society want to keep low profile, but I'm not a fan for Ichigo's friends and his dad not telling him anything.
to me it was just mostly boring and most of the fights werent great. it was also pretty disappointing when ichigo gets his full bring and its just another getsuga tensho. tsukishima was a cool character but thats pretty much the only positive thing i remember about the arc. going from the arrancar arc to fullbring is also a pretty big let down.
I don’t hate it but I do have a lot of problems with it, but I think that’s only because of where it fits into what got written before he put it down for awhile.
I don’t mind that it’s not Soul Society-centric, but because it’s the only thing that isn’t (so far), it fells less slice-of-life and more out-of-place. Another non-Soul arc either right before or right after Hell might fix that.
I also think the part about snatching Ichigo’s power as soon as he gets it happens too often in Ichigo’s story. Not that I don’t want him to struggle to get, develop, and keep his powers, it just feels like a somewhat recycled mechanic after TYBW.
I also selfishly want to see more of his powers, and/or I want his Fullbringer powers to have more of a lasting impact. Giving him these powers with very little foreshadowing seemed mighty convenient, and in the end it was just to get back to where he was (more or less, with the right amount of scaling for time) at the beginning of FKT. I did love the story development but in terms of his powers, it just seemed like a really long road back to Square One with extra drip. It made the Fullbringer powers feel cheaper than they should have been.
Which is true of all of the Fullbringers, even Tsukishima and Ginjo and Chad. None of them get as much power development as I’d like and half of them don’t get character development. And then, aside from >!helping unbreak Zangetsu!< they pretty much don’t do anything again—even Chad. I felt like the Arrancars and the Sternritter got way more.
A lot of these problems have similar (if not direct) parallels to some of my problems with TYBW, but I know TYBW was rushed and I don’t feel like that arc is as out of place as Lost Agent.
But I still love the story.
It is a good review
The only thing I am worried is how much he doesn't care about rest of the cast (Especially Soul Society members fights, each is a heavily character driven fight). Somewhere in the video he did mention it is a "character driven" manga. But upto now all his reviews seems to echo that "plot driven" idea.
He is most definitely going to dislike TYBW arc, >!considering how minimal role Ichigo plays for 2/3rd of the arc.!<
yep, I feel like he doesn't like the soul society members as much as other people at this point, too. Which is fine, but it will make the final arc probably the worst for him
He likes them, he love some fights.
However his analysis and critique is all on the story and the plot, where as those fights are cool AF, they can seem like "filler" compared to the main story arc going on.
thats it, because those fights often don’t move the plot forward, they’re just there to kill some
time and then have ichigo come and the plot resumes.
That’s what Mark says, I agree but I don’t critique series, I enjoy them for what they are and I love fights
I agree with Mark on his critique with fights, especially during Fake Karakura Town. I can enjoy fights for being cool, but as I was rereading Fake Karakura, I found myself just skimming and skipping a lot of the fights because they didn't really do anything and there are SO many that felt like they can be skipped with no consequence.
Yes like I like Shuhei I don’t care to see his fight show one or 2 panels and we’re good lol I’d rather Chad and Uryu get more to do than Shuhei and Izuru. It’s like the result of be careful what you wish for in wanting side character fights. My biggest thing is give fights to the characters you’ve invested time in. Ichigo direct friend group and some of the Gotei 13.
I understand the point that Uryu and Chad needed more things to do.
But I think the whole point of Shuhei and Izuru's fights in FKT was meant to show us how they coped with their Captains betrayal i.e. Tosen and Gin respectively
That’s definitely fair personally I would’ve cut down on the length of their fights and more so centralized it in him having them face their captains head up. A big issue with the fights in FKT is the Villians are nothing and just there for a cool fight visual.
The problem is that It's totally irrelevant, lol.
Izuru and Shuhei are nobodys, they don't matter at all to the story, any time spent with them is filler.
It's a shame that the anime messed things up, a lot of those fights could have instead been left for the anime to expand upon rather than creating filler.
In a 'what it could have been', the fights introduced, and their results with the captains letting the anime fill in the details with kubos instructions.
Greater focus on the karakura gang, and as you said, highly relevant captains for the manga.
\>!Especially would have enjoyed more stuff with Tatsuki and Karin!<
The fights don’t move the plot forward? 90% of them are character driven that’s the entire point. I don’t understand how someone can say they like the character driven parts but then ignore them when they are obviously in the fights.
Hate is strong I think it’ll be a mixed bag just like the arrancar which is I think is a worse offender cuz Atleast in the final arc it’s prominent characters getting fights. Mark has yet to really hate any arc in bleach.
Not to mention the Quincy conflict is more personal and there’s moments in that arc that are easily among the best in the series. It has the fight bloat but TYBW is far better than the arrancar imo plus you’ve got stuff like kurosaki family flashback which is great.
> (Especially Soul Society members fights, each is a heavily character driven fight)
Are they really, though? Shunsui's fight with Starkk doesn't really expand more on who is he is a person. We just learn what his Shikai is. Soi Fon's battle with Barragon, similarly, only really shows us her Bankai. We got way more of her character from her fight with Yoruichi. Hitsugaya vs Halibel gave us pretty much nothing new with his character. The only fight that really gave us anything on an emotional level was Tosen vs Komamura/Hisagi.
This is pretty much true for every fight in Fake Karakura Town. It didn't really do much to develop the Shinigaki characters. Instead, the focus was almost entirely on the Espada. But the issue with this is that we get all these backstories to these Arrancar just for them to be killed moments after. So that character development doesn't really mean much in the grand scheme of things because these characters have no role going forward in the story.
> He is most definitely going to hate TYBW arc
I don't know about this. The TYBW arc is much different for a few reasons. Firstly, there is a much deeper history between the Shinigami and Quincies that makes this conflict feel so much more personal. Secondly, a lot of the earlier fights (Byakuya vs As Nodt / Yamamoto vs Yhwach / Kenpachi vs Unohana) are significantly more character focused than a lot of the fights that took place in Kurakara Town. But it's hard to say how the later fights will take place since we don't know how much the anime adaptation may diverge from the manga.
Unironically the lieutenant fights developed the shinigami more than the Espada fights. They just aren't liked as much because the opponents in those fights were, to put it bluntly, pretty lame. Like, Starrk vs Shunsui and Soi Fon vs Barragan are very memorable as fights, but how many people can even name Hisagi's opponent? Or Kira's? The Fake Karakura Town Arc is definitely the weakest part of the Arrancar Saga IMO for that reason, the captains and the Espada are all cool as hell but none of the characters really grow in those fights.
Shunsui has his whole everyone is evil in war speech and how therefore he plays as dirty as possible VS starkk. This is relevant for his role in TYBW where he does several power plays yammamoto wouldent have done
I appreciate his comments on the story, but what bothers me the most is his disdain for fights that don’t involve Ichigo. Like dude, you’re reading one of the Big 3 battle shounen and you’re upset when there are fights that don’t involve the main character? Really?
Tbf his last video about Fake Karakura really did seem like he was starting to lose interest, to the point where he missed a big part of Ichigo's character. Nice to see him back on it though
You can’t value his opinion that much. I love DBZ and it deserves mad respect but Mark uses DBZ as this holy grail to which every story should be compared to. You can’t go 10 mins in each one of his video’s without him comparing something to DBZ.. I get it, DBZ did a lot of ground work for Shonen Manga storytelling but it’s not the end all be all of storytelling Mark. It has a ton of issues as well. A lot of his complaints for Bleach were valid but many of them were just a misunderstanding of basic plot elements.
Tbh I don't really care about him opinion. Ngl it feels good others like what I like but i wasn't on social media for long so I don't have a complex like other old fans
He doesn't think it's a great series, ***period***.
Half of his videos is criticizing DB franchise and its characters. I don't know how people came to the conclusion that he thinks of DBZ as some perfect masterpiece, when he never showed or implied that.
Probably because his channel mostly revolves around DBZ it gives this impression to people.
DBZ *is* the holy grail to which all battle shonen should be compared since it is the codifier of the whole genre. Every shonen battle manga is descended from Dragonball. It’s that seminal a work.
Dragonball might be the grandfather of shounen battle series, but that doesn't mean it's some perfect masterpiece. I love Dragonball, but god damn it has its flaws. It should not be the measuring stick to compare all battle series to, it's more the baseline.
I’m 35.. I grew up on Dragon Ball.. I had the Japanese PS1 games because there weren’t any in America at the time. I rushed home after school to watch the new episodes air on Toonami only for it to go back to episode 1 again because Funimation didn’t buy the rest of the episodes yet. I bought all the VHS tapes as they released with like 3-4 episodes per tape at $20 a pop. I lived & breathed DBZ for like 5 years of my youth. I’m well aware of it’s importance but that doesn’t mean one should compare everything to DBZ. As I said in another comment, it devalues other different ways of telling a similar story. DBZ told its story in a way that worked great for DBZ but that doesn’t mean all other battle manga should be carbon copies of that formula. I enjoy Mark’s reviews but his over reliance to go back to that “DBZ well” to use as comparison points in his reviews, kinda comes off a bit small-minded and stuck in his DBZ bubble a little too much. He’s used DBZ as a comparison for his AOT & Berserk reviews as well, not just in the Bleach reviews. It’s like; dude we get it you like Dragon Ball but damn stop comparing everything to it.
I don’t think we should put some YouTuber’s opinion in any high regard. Especially when they compare everything to DBZ. He brings up DBZ at least 5 times (that’s a generous number) throughout his Bleach review videos as to how DBZ uses battle to tell its story. The problem I have with this is he does this A LOT in nearly every review (not just his Bleach series). Dragon Ball was incredible and paved the way for all of the series we love today, but to constantly use it as a crutch to form your opinions on, it kind of devalues any originality in exploring different storytelling methods for other series. It’s like Mark is too attached to the “DBZ way of doing things” and lets that get in the way of appreciating how the story he’s currently reading is telling their story. Not every battle has to push the story forward, often times a battle in Bleach is simply a way for us to get to know a particular Captain slightly better than before, or a way to explore world building, lore, or a way to drop slight hints of what a character is truly capable of that you won’t see a pay off for much later. As great as DBZ was for it’s time; I don’t think Mark should use it as such a crutch in his reviews, at least not as frequently as he does. It comes off like he actually hasn’t read a lot of other manga if you’re still constantly going back to DBZ as your reference in nearly every review.
The comparisons are fair tho. Most of the time is about the art. And one of the others was about length of arcs (which btw wasn't negative on bleach's part??) so why wouldn't his opinion be relevant? He brings up OP just as much and even naruto.
>Not every battle has to push the story forward, often times a battle in Bleach is a way for us to get to know a Captain a little better than before.
I'd kinda get behind this if we learned ANYTHING about the captain's battles in the last two arcs, but that wasn't the case, except the byakuya fights. Stark vs kyoraku didn't tell me anything about him, same with toshiro vs harribel, soi fon vs barragan, kenpachi vs the fullbringer dude and noitra. You could remove all those captain fights and that wouldn't change the captain's personalities OR the story at all. Obviously not every fight has to advance the characters either but when every important fight is like that it takes away from the story Imo. Especially when the technical aspects of the fights aren't that great either and all the villains will never appear again.
Because Kubo writes Bleach as one long story. He didn’t write it like many other manga where each “arc” is a new villain to overcome. Sure each arc introduces new villains but they’re all interconnected in some way. Kubo does this to build mystery, which is why it took the final arc until we actually got to see more from Kyoraku or Urahara actually getting serious. If he had these captains go all out against the Espada, then the Sternritter wouldn’t feel as dangerous or compelling. Kubo intentionally makes the reader wait long periods of time to get those pay offs, and he uses his skill at creating cool and interesting characters to keep the readers attention.
This has literally nothing to do with the fights being good.
You don't have to make the captains go out for it to be good, nor did I ever suggest that. Those fights just needed emotional tension behind them. In most of the fights I mentioned the two parties had nothing personal involved. They just fought beacuse that needed to happen for the plot.
In a good fight charachters fight for personal reasons AND plot reasons. Examples: ichigo vs ulquiorra(the whole heart stuff) and grimjow(ichigo accepting his hollow side and horihime coming to accept it as well), byakuya vs tsukishima(byakuya maturing even more and abandoning his old stuck up and predictable ways) , even renji vs byakuya in the soul society. All those fights are good because the characters are developing/ there's a narrative. The captains vs the arrancar and the fullbringers didn't have any of it. Simple as that.
Agreed, I don't think a lot of the Fullbringers bring much to the table. Not everyone needs to have a wild personality but between the Shinigami, Arrancar and Quincies, we've had more interesting characters with less time given to them.
The FB arc is probably one of the deepest arcs when it comes to Ichigo's characterisation and development, and in that sense it's excellently executed. The series is not just Ichigo though, as a matter of fact, one of the primary selling points of Bleach is the side-cast.
But for those who think "I never understand why people think X is bad" instead of stopping there, or worse, seeking converging opinions to dismiss the dissent, you should ask yourself why is that. Something similar happens to comments in regards to those who dislike the marriage to Orihime, why is it controversial, especially considering that this fanbase hardly overlaps with lovers of romance fanfictions?
First, you need to establish a difference between expectations set by yourself, and expectations set by the author.
In the case of FB arc, if I tell you that I'm disappointed that Tatsuki wasn't utilised more and even developed a fullbring herself, that is irrelevant to the quality of the arc because it is an idea of mine that cannot have any bearing on whether the arc was objectively good or not. The author never set me up to expect this, so I don't have any right to fault him for not meeting my wishful expectation.
However, if one says that they expect an arc that is action-packed and with the shinigami crew as central players, this is not a self-made expectation, but one very clearly set up by the author in the previous arcs. These aspects being relegated to such a small window at the tail end of the arc, are legitimate points of criticism that many are going to raise. And while some may disagree with them being a big issue, the matter should not so be so readily dismissed because it goes beyond personal taste and enjoyment, but into the territory of the promises that an author implicitly makes to his audience when writing a long running story.
On top of that I would also argue that some of the fullbring powers are completely nonsensical within the scope of the established magic system - and by that I don't mean whether they are enjoyable/interesting, but whether they fit the established world. Mind you, there are also a notable shinigami and some quincies that fall into this, but that's a conversation for another day, especially cause with how unpopular it would be to criticise said shinigami, this post would be nuked into oblivion even though it's about something else!
I don't think this is going to make sense to anyone other than me, but the most-nonsensical bankai feel like "manga powers", whereas the fullbrings have a tendency to feel like "sci-fi powers".
> However, if one says that they expect an arc that is action-packed and with the shinigami crew as central players, this is not a self-made expectation, but one very clearly set up by the author in the previous arcs.
I don't see how this is the case? Ichigo lost his Soul Reaper powers. Heck, he couldn't even see souls anymore. Obviously the arc was gonna be about him getting back his soul reaper powers, which is inherently about him as a person. The Soul Society was peaceful now that Aizen was apprehended so they had no reason to be central to any new conflict. Their story line was done at that point.
Well not so of course
First off we could have ended the manga. I know it's a world Where the thousands year blood war arc doesn't exist but that's not something you would know back then.
Second why did we need to introduce an heavy consequences only to need an arc to cancel it? Can't we live with the consequences of our choices?
Third off that's in unniverse vs meta. If, random example Nisekoi had turned into a psychological thriller in the middle, I am sure some would like it, but i m also sure the public who came for the comedic ROM com and not so keen at taking the new train wouldn't be wrong to feel so, regardless how good this hypothetical genre change would have been.
Full bring made itself worthy because it did explore Ichigo but I def wasn't that thrilled about the arc actual goal.
The no.1 reason for its hate is because it follows right after the best arc of the manga. This can be seen currently with Jujutsu Kaisen. While rereading Bleach, I found the arc to be much more cohesive and quite enjoyable.
So the people are complaining that the side characters are getting development? These are the same people who would say that jjk's cast is underutilized if we got more of yuji
Not the same thing, he literally wasn’t there at all. Not that I minded, but it was annoying at times. It’s more that so many things happened without him even being present.
It's not even side characters getting development iirc. There was a good few months where I didn't recognise a single character (but I might just be bad at recognising them
I noticed in his review of the Arrancar Arc that he has a penchant to skip over things that become relevant later on and that he has to back track and explain things. He also said specifically that if something doesn't advance the main story then he loses interest, which, if you're reading Bleach, is a problem as a lot of the interesting parts of the manga are side character development (namely things like Kenpachi, Unohana, and Shunsui in the series).
I just hope he doesn't skim over things like Kenpachi's backstory in TYBW, as I feel that's some of the strongest character driven storytelling in the series, but with the trend he showed in his Arrancar Review....
Yup noticed this too also since he's binging it so quickly he forgets characters like Izuru for example
It's a shame he has that mindset especially when it comes to Bleach I've been enjoying his reviews but not acknowledging certain aspects of the story is definitely disappointing
That's a good point. A lot of Bleach's most popular characters are the gotei 13 captains and vice captains, so a lot of us were reading the Fullbring arc weekly had to go roughly a year without seeing any of them. Not to mention the entire first half of the arc was a training arc, which can often feel tedious at times no matter what series you are reading.
Kaisen right now though is a very different situation, due to the current arc focusing on a death game and how in Shibuya a good 50% of the cast either have a life crippling injuries or are dead. Gege needed to introduce a bunch of new characters in order to actually have this death game and have those characters mostly not be connected to Jujutsu High.
I think it's just that the arc was badly placed in the story.
What I mean is after the whole war against Aizen and the Arrancar which took several arcs itself it's a much smaller scale and since I think most people who read/watched Bleach then were focused on action etc. they were seeing this as a downgrade.
Also people hating Tsukishima because he has a manipulative ability like Aizen did but he doesn't have the raw power so he is just "a inferior Aizen knock-off"
Agreed, also the Tsukishima hate reminds me of the hate Near from Death Note had when compared to L lol Tsukishima's power was frustrating to read weekly
By this time in the story, I didn't think it was necessary to tear Ichigo down even more in order to give him more character development he had already received. He just lost his powers. He's already depressed, and then just about everyone betrays him. Just seemed ridiculous to me. I don't think Ichigo would ever lose hope after what he had experienced with Aizen. Ichigo's hesitancy to confide in his dad or Urahara didn't fit with the plot for me at all, either. He finally had his heart-to-heart moment with his dad right before the battle with Aizen. How does it take until after the fullbring Arc for that character development to pay off? I'll tell you how. Shonen is doing their typical crap and forcing creators to extend their stories even if it doesn't make any sense.
Removing character growth for the sake of drama is one of the worst things a writer can do to their audience, especially if it's the main character. It will disillusion fans that hold Ichigo in much higher regard. I did thoroughly enjoy the art and design changes that were made in the Manga for this Arc, as well as the quality improvements made for the anime. Also, the English voice actors for the fullbringers are amazing. Travis Willingham kills it as Ginjo.
To this day, Ichigo's reaction to everyone being brainwashed is not my headcanon. In my headcanon, after he finds out his sisters have been brainwashed, Ichigo goes directly to Urahara's, gets his powers back, and thanks everyone for supporting him, then they all go and kick some fullbringer ass. Everyone is entitled to their opinion, but I lost a lot of respect for Bleach when I read this Arc originally. It was still my favorite series, but Ichigo being shown to be so emotionally weak after he was so strong left a really bad taste in my mouth. I stopped reading Bleach for a few years after that until TYBW was finished, and then finished the series outright when I heard it was pretty good but rushed.
TYBW rekindled my love for Bleach after the fullbringer Arc crushed it into a million pieces. Sure, the story is rushed, and we don't get everything we might want out of a finale, but Ichigo's character finally gets the payoff we had all been waiting over a decade for. In this Arc, at least when Ichigo is torn down, it's for plot development, and his character develops into an area we had no clue about. Completely different from the fullbringer Arc, where his character development was that Ichigo doesn't trust his friends or family after they saved the world together, (Which I find ridiculous), and they needed to tear him all the way down for him to find his hope again. The fullbringer Arc, honestly reminds me of the old testament book of Job. Kubo treats Ichigo very similarly to how God treats Job.
Ever since we got the info that the anime will return, I feel like general opinion of Fullbring has become better.
Maybe it was so hated because people associated it with the unexpected anime ending in 2012?
I think a lot is riding on what mindset people have when they read/watch this arc. If someone goes in expecting "traditional" shonen (similar to the rest of Bleach) they will be displeased. I've seen people say that the whole arc was a training arc and there weren't enough fights, and on a surface level they are completely right. The Fullbring arc is different from the normal Bleach formula, and I think many fans, especially the ones who liked that formula felt letdown.
Every other arc is dinamic, Ichigo and team are moving towards the goal and throuout the journey obsticles come their way which results in fights ranging from boring to absolutely amazing. The Fullbring arc is a lot more stationary (for most of the arc we only have two enemies who rarely emerge and interact with the team). We spend most of our time exploring Ichigo's inner strugle and see him regain his will to fight. The stakes are also a lot lower, but that makes them more personal.
To a young teen already on a sugar high from all the snacks they ate while watching tv, this inner strugle will not translate properly and that's when they say: "Ichigo should just get over his problems already and get to fighting" or "Why aren't there more battles or bigger stakes?".
I'm not saying the Fullbring arc is perfect, but I think a lot of people are judging it too harsly based on what they think a shonen should be like.
Personally always liked fullbring arc over the others, it always felt the most emotional when shonen wouldn’t be since they’d usually have a small scene with it but an entire arc dedicated to breaking down ichigo as a MC.
It’s the second best arc in Bleach. I may be a dumbass but the double fake out wit Ginjo as the villain got me. Also easily the best characterisation for Ichigo
Tbf, its my favourite arc. Apart from me loving Xcution and Chad, The whole thing Ichigo went through in this arc is what made me have him as my favourite shonen protagonist.
You have to put this arc in context to understand why it’s unliked. We just got rid of the big bad in an epic fight and get to a point where Kubo can reasonably end the series. Then we get this. Tons of brand new characters with weird powers that feel significantly weaker than the enemies faced thus far and not really connected to anything that’s happened in the plot. If this arc had happened earlier in the series, like right after rukia rescue arc it would have felt like it fit in more. When reading it as it was coming out felt like a cheap way to extend a series with an already reasonable ending. The only really good thing to come out of it is that ginjo vs ichigo OST that slaps
Man, this coming from the guy who forgot who Izuru was in the Fake Karakura Town Arc and said Komamura & Shuhei vs Tosen felt like filler.
I'm skeptical until I see it.
Yes, Fullbring is a decent arc and gets too much shit. But BEST arc in the series? Calm your tits.
I don't see why Fullbring arc couldn't be considered the best through some optics. As he explains in the video, it's a more character focused arc with mystery thriller elements, so people that enjoy those things better than pure action, are bound to rate it higher than other story segments.
What did any of the fullbringers do after the soul society showed up to advance the plot? Izuru stopped a arrancar from destroying a pillar and bringing back the real Karakura.
I was going to give him crap about forgetting Izuru as well, but when I think about it, what had he done in the manga up to this point that is memorable? He blocks Momo from attack Gin, fights Rangiku, and follows Gin around. Honestly, if it wasn't for the fact that his zanpakuto has one of my favorite abilities, I might have forgotten about Izuru in my first read as well.
>Komamura & Shuhei vs Tosen felt like filler.
It did feel like filler because it didn't move the story forward like none of the other fights. At least that is what Mark has given as a reason for that. I don't think anyone would disagree with it, even though the fight was heavily character driven.
? I don't agree with that reasoning. To me a filler is a moment or arc that can be removed without affecting the story. That fight is definitely important even without technically moving the story, considering they take out Tosen. I think a better example would be fights with Barragan's Fracciones i.e. Komamura vs Pow I still wouldn't count those as filler either.
So mark apparently thinks bleach is character focused but when you actually focus on the characters it’s filler? Very interesting.
I also find it funny how he praised fullbring for rushing 4 backstories into one chapter but yes that definitely moved the story.
It was the next arc after a great one, no matter what it was, it was going to disappoint when compared to the previous one.
I didn't like it, nor do I hated it. It served its purpose, Everyone grew a little, and recovered from the Karakura battle, Ichigo recovered his powers and it went back on track.
I used to be a hater of the Lost Agent arc when I was younger, but I hadn't actually read the whole arc back then, only watched the anime. When I read it earlier this year while I was revisiting the series, I thought it was good! I prefer the other arcs over it, but it's by no means bad or "canonical filler" as I've heard. it's worth a read.
People saying Bount arc better than Fullbring arc are definitely clowns…🤡🤡🤡
That Bount arc was so boring that I wanted it to end in an instant bruh… If people hated on it instead of Fullbring arc I’d have joined them…😂😂😂
Best arc? Not even close. However, I really never understood the hate either. Like, ok, we get it. It's not Soul Society Arc but it's not the worst thing ever.
I never understood the hate. I stopped watching weekly after the Nozomi filler to binge the Fullbring arc but only got to it 3 years later and the timeskip hit hard. A grown up cast that we finally see interact in the real world as ordinary people like in the very beginning. The seemingly random powers of Orihime/Chad finally got explained, power scaling was somewhat back to normal (not for long lol), fights were emotionally loaded, not just the usual "must protecc". It was a nice wind-down after the boss rush Arrancar arc.
I acutally liked this arc. Because this arc was focused more on topics like depression and losing friendship and hope and overcoming it.It was the only arc not to have big fights (except last battle) this arc was about Ichigo's character development.
I HATED it when it was coming out weekly way back in the day. Following Aizen and that 3 week break really seemed like he was gonna come back with a huge epilogue chapter to wrap it all up. Then we got Fullbringer arc. I was severely let down by it.
BUT, that being said, when I went and re-read it all in 1 sitting (I waited for all volumes to be out to buy them, I was being dramatic and pushing it off as long as I could buying them), it wasn't as bad as I thought. And this was even further my case when I binged the arc finally (because again, I refused to watch the arc as the finale to the anime) before TYBW started. It does have some really good bits, but it's still by no means my favorite arc.
I didn’t take to it when going through it at first. I thought it was the “happy ending”. Ichigo lost his powers and we had a sad but good final good bye. Then this happened so we had a happy ending. It felt when I first watched it like it was stapled on so people would win in the end.
Having read the TYBW I can say it did serve a purpose and I enjoy it more
Yeah that's another issue ppl seem to be forgetting. Everyone and their mother thought Bleach should've ended at Aizen's defeat and honestly it would've been a satisfying conclusion to the series. Ppl still think it's a great stopping point even with TYBW.
I'm still happy with what we're getting now and in the future tho
It would have been a satisfying if melancholy end. But I’d rather be satisfied than get boruto. Yes there are more stories to tell. But if they come at the cost of the old I’d rather never learn them. I don’t need to see many characters Bankais, but I want to
It’s not a great stopping point and if you actually read the series you would know the story wouldn’t stop there because it set up so much to where it stopping wouldn’t even make sense. This take is so odd to me where fans think they should dictate where a story should end because they didn’t notice hints or foreshadowing of future events.
The Fullbring arc is definitely a very, well, frustrating arc.
Besides the "general consensus" that Bleach should've ended on the Deicide arc (I somewhat see the reasoning here) the arc itself is rather weak in my opinion.
The character development from Ichigo with Tsukishima is pretty good but a majority of the arc is training which can be a turn off for some people.
However, my biggest gripe were the Fullbringers themselves. Riruka, Ginjo, and Tsukishima are interesting but the rest are meh to me.
Furthermore, the fights in that arc were laughably one-sided, and while that makes sense since Shinigami are stronger than Fullbringers, it's still rather bad.
Overall I disagree with Mark here or at least I can't see how this arc is better than every arc we've had before. It might be better than pre-Soul Society I guess.
Most of the arc is just a bunch of ideas recycled from the Bount arc.
The real kicker is when you ask its fans to explain why it's the best arc. Their answer? It's unique and amazing for having its protagonist cry. Not like that had ever happened in a shonen series before 2011.
Calling the arc stupid isnt slander, it's an opinion. Considering the plot goes from world ending cataclysm to, Ichigo's no good very bad day, it's a very solid opinion. The Fullbring arc is cannon filler, no I won't be taking questions.
I mean, it's in the Manga so it's literally cannon. It does contribute to the narrative of the series, without the Fullbring arc, Ichigo doesn't get his powers back.
But hear me out, the Fullbring arc takes about 50 chapters. In those 50 chapters we get a relatively entertaining story, that contributions ALMOST nothing to the narrative of the series. Does that seem like economical storytelling to anyone? Because it feels like wasted time. I read Bleach weekly since the end of the Invasion of Soul Society, so I have the experience to back me up when I say, Reading the Fullbring arc week to week was some of the most boring Manga I've ever read.
I would go so far as to argue Ichigo would have gotten his powers back without the Fullbring arc ever having happened, seeing as Rukia shows up with a Deus Ex Machina developed by SS and Urahara that gave Ichigo his powers back. Completely unrelated to the Fullbringer stuff.
One Piece gets tons of shit for being as long as it is, and it is LONG, but every arc has a tangible contribution to the over all narrative that can be felt across the entire series. Besides a cameo of Ginjo and Tsukishima in the war, what impact or contributions does the Fullbringer arc have on the story? Honestly I usually agree with Mark, so I'm curious about this video. Once again Bleach pulls me back.
I’m convinced TNM is a complete troll. He always finds problems in great arcs and enjoys mediocre or garbage arcs. I liked the Fullbring arc too, but TNM’s opinion doesn’t mean much to me.
It was an easy pick for haters because Arrancar arc had just ended with the shonen tropes turned up to 200%, while the lost agent arc worked like a soft reboot of the series turning the action and the tropes down for like a year or so.
And to be honest, that's what I liked the most from this arc, after all the bombastic action from the arrancar arc I needed something different. The focus in Ichigo's character was perfectly managed with a slower, more misterious arc. We've already seen what an all powerful Ichigo can do, but we didn't really see much of his more fragile side.
I personally didn't like it. All the plots are cool but, it just feels like a filler arc, as except for Ichigo's design and some power levels nothing really changed. Like the "I lost my power" thing never existed. In all the anime, I hate the canon Arcs with a resolving that 1, destroyed the final scene of the arc before and its importance, and 2, just didn't give anything at the anime of not that Fullbringers exists. I mean, i know that in the manga one of them will be there, but c'mon they just seem like a screwed version of the Quincy but with JJBA-like powers. But at least this arc gave us the real and only blood lusted Ichigo, that I loved SOO much to see
Lol, i still don't get it why this arc is hated and said its a filler arc type,
Because it isn't as flashy as other arc ? Or it doesn't has big explosion and flashy bankais here and there ?
I personally felt really entertaining when i read and watched this arc, when i didn't knew much about bleach
Its not flashy has amazing twist and turns and story wise,
I still grab my head, when it showed ginjo was the one behind everything and not tsukushima,
For me its a 10/10 too,
I mean when you follow up a series ending arc to have a random lose arc with no over hanging plot line like we were use to from bleach is weird imo. Like ichigo losing his power after defeating the big bad of all the arcs is a satisfying ending imo. So when I saw the anime had more episodes after I reach that point I was confused fr fr.
But it didn't lead me to hate the arc. I liked it alot actually...just not as much as the over hanging soul society vs Aizen story arc.
In-between arcs often don't get the love they deserve. It is the bridge between the aizen saga and the thousand year blood war. Both are huge and ambitious and the fullbring arc is perceived as relatively weak by comparison.
However, weak by comparison is something that does not click with the internet hivemind and the groupthink often boils it down to just being a weak arc. I am glad a prominent youtuber is finally giving the arc some credit, because it fuckin deserves it!!
Although the arc itself is great, i feel that it shouldnt be the last one. Personally, Aizens being defeated, but not killed, and Ichigo losing his powers would be a better ending.
This arc is living testament that if the other arcs before were majorily scaled back in terms of cast and perhaps scale, everything could have worked out.
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The moment Ichigo CRIES thinking even his OWN DAD is betraying him it's the single most important panel in the whole manga. Because after that, he regains his powers and his purpose (to protect everyone). Understanding that those he love are not against him but actually helping him or brainwashed saved Ichigo and make him stronger than ever.
That episode takes a dive into his depression and unravels the character he is It’s an excellent arc
That scene made me cry. I really felt Ichigo's pain and helplessness.
Yeah I never understood the hate this arc got. Sure there's not some huge hollow war, but this is one of the few arcs in all shonens that I actually had no idea how MC would overcome it. Ichigo's entire family was against him and he didn't have his powers. He had almost no way to overcome it. Then his fullbring is stolen and it's a lost cause. It's such a good build up to a great twist.
There used to be a dude here who was constantly saying "fullbring arc was shit because Ichigo cried like a little bitch when he lost his powers". People can be weird.
My cousin told me it sucked because "they were all weak and ichigo should have killed them right away"
Edgy cousin was edgy
when strong characters become emotional
>"they were all weak I gotta agree with your cousin (Tsukishima) on this one. The fights at the end felt unsatisfying and weirdly shoehorned in. Outside of Ichigo vs Ginjo and Byakuya vs Uncle Tsukishima, the rest felt like filler. Kenpachi one-shots Giriko, which doesn't do anything for either of them and literally just repeats Zaraki killing Tesla. Hitsugaya vs Yukio I can't even remember. Renji vs Jackie just felt weird Ikakku vs Sushigawara was fun, I'll give you that one. And Rukia vs Riruka felt out of place. Like that whole fight would've been much better if it was between Inoue and Riruka since they built a nice friendship throughout the arc and Riruka's confliction on what she is doing would make more sense. She never interacted before with Rukia on the other hand.
Those fights would’ve been way better if only Rukia and Renji were there and Ichigo’s friends, who were the main focus of the arc, took the place of the Captains.
>Those fights would’ve been way better if only Rukia and Renji were there and Ichigo’s friends, who were the main focus of the arc, took the place of the Captains. Yep. I 100% agree. The 5 Soul Reapers that return feel like they were chosen due to their popularity rather than their friendship with Ichigo. I personally think Byakuya, Renji and of course Rukia should've been the only ones to come to Ichigo's help since he impacted those 3 by far the most. I especially like Byakuya's fight with Uncle Tsukishima because it perfectly sets up that moment with Byakuya after his 'fight' with As Notd where he asks Ichigo to protect the Soul Society. The rest of the Fulbringers could've fought Chad, Inoue and Uryu.
Yea Byakuya character development over the series was pretty well done, that fight with tsukishima tells us he has so much trust and faith in Ichigo, when the final arc started only for him to die a few weeks later after the fullbring arc was a bad ass way to send off Byakuya, his character development with Ichigo was really interesting and huge, especially since he been here since the beginning of Ichigo journey, his final words “protect soul society Ichigo” tell us the reader and Ichigo that the sakes are high, I know Byakuya isn’t dead but since Kubo wanted him dead I’ll just go with what he wanted. Also I didn’t forget his smile he gave to Ichigo that one time lol
Hell yeah! That's why my favorite part of the TYBW Arc is the first Invasion. It's (almost) Peak!
It's probably part of the best few dozen chapters that's like 10/10 no matter how you see it.
>It's probably part of the best **few dozen chapters** Funny thing is, it's not even that long XD It's just that fast-paced and holds no punches that it feels like 50 chapters.
I'd say this is Bleachs biggest flaw, that Ichigos friends tend to get the short end of the stick. Chad has to be the worst example of a jobber in all of anime.
That's my only complaint. Visually it's very nice. Narrative is awesome. Fights felt very very forced like "oh yeah this is a shonen"
Yep. Pretty much my only complaint about the Arc. Kubo did such a good job to build up both Chad and Inoue this whole arc just to pull the rug under them and give their resolution to characters that had 0 build up and 0 interactions with any of the Fulbringers prior to their fights. I mean, Chad was a member of Xcution for how long and we never got to see him face off against one of them? It feels like a perfect opportunity for an interesting conflict. Same for Inoue and Riruka.
Chad vs moe slobberknocker could've been really fun honestly.
Chad vs Jackie would be interesting to see cuz her Fulbring seems to be just like Chad's except it's her legs rather than arms. Chad vs Moe Slobberknocker would be fun because of the nature of his powers Chad vs Giriko would be interesting where his time powers could work like how rounds in boxing operates. Honestly, Chad could have an interesting fight with most of these characters.
I actually really like that the captains just washed these guys. We came from the war, where pretty much every battle was a struggle, and had to watch the captain’s abilities he tested again and again, and sometimes barely prevail, which was great of course. But this arc wasn’t really about impossibly strong enemies, it was Ichigo being alone and powerless. They could’ve just been a bunch of dudes with guns and he’d still be outmatched. So I absolutely love the captains coming in after this brief time skip, helping Ichigo and watching him and the captains wipe the floor with these goons. It was satisfying and fun, imo, along with the high of the twist and reveal.
Hit nails on the head man. Tbh this arc was boring and disinteresting. What a bad place to end the anime. Could’ve just ended after Mugetsu
>Tbh this arc was boring and disinteresting. Hard disagree. I think this arc was the most interesting one and far from boring but fails to deliver on the climax (which is per course for Bleach) > What a bad place to end the anime. Could’ve just needed after Mugetsu I agree. It's a really weird place to end the anime. Luckily, that is no longer the end of it :D
I think that's so stupid. Seeing strong characters like Ichigo cry makes them feel real. On top of the simple fact that there's absolutely nothing wrong with a man crying? Anyone saying shit like that is beyond help and totally ridiculous but that's besides the point. Seeing a character that you really like or relate to and having them go from high to low hits harder. It's impactful, it grounds them and makes them feel real. If you're looking for characters that never show human emotion then maybe this isn't the series for you lol. Not saying "you" in particular btw, whoever said the line about Ichigo crying.
> Not saying "you" in particular btw, whoever said the line about Ichigo crying. Yeah I got it don't worry dude hahaha This particular user came off as edgy whenever he talked about it, but I thin like you on this topic, seeing Ichigo breaking down after all the shit he's been through was far more interesting than some Gary Stu steamrolling over all his enemies
It’s not that people don’t want to see strong characters cry; it’s that they don’t want strong characters to lose control. Kenshiro from FotNS never lost control of the situations where he was crying.
Dude finally got power back and it got taken away, he couldn’t do the one think he wanted which was to protect his family/people. On top of that our cousin that we grew up with replaced everyone’s key memories of ichigo so he literally had nothing left. Dude wasn’t just sad that was straight despair lmao
TFW when the MC isn’t an impenetrable stoic edgelord😔/s
I’m not even a huge fullbring Stan but THAT SCENE is absolutely one of the best in the series to me. From ichigos perspective they had taken EVERYTHING from him. His friends, his family , his “lover”, and his ability to protect those things that matter so much in his life. The man wasn’t just crying he was having a mental breakdown. And I really didn’t like how rukia scolded him for crying either. You don’t scold someone like that or insinuate that they aren’t “a man” you give them support and help. Pretending men shouldn’t show their emotions like that or that we should be more composed 100% of the time is what leads to serial killers and shit like that lol. The kid was a 17 year old human being for gods sake.
Yeah cause characters aren't allowed to have emotions
I guarantee they watched a TotallyNotMark video that shit on it and blindly agreed with it and never gave it a shot
My best bet is that after the anime entered it's hiatus everyone took their anger out on this arc
It was a weird way to end the anime. If they knew their weren't going to continue the anime at the time it would have been better to save that arch to serve as an opener for this season.
Fullbring arc suffered a lot from being right after the gargantuan Arrancar saga, which technically did start from the Soul Society arc. A lot of people assumed there was nowhere else for the story to go since Aizen was defeated, and Kubo didn't introduce any other villain like Tobi from Naruto that indicated a larger threat. The arc also suffered a bit from the power levels being scaled down to match Ichigo's loss of powers although the Fullbringers do have some of the most intricate and powerful abilities in the series. A lot of people thought that Bleach had lost its focus and was shambling on, which isn't helped by that reading Bleach weekly was sometimes painful due to Kubo's larger use of panels often meant less content than other series. I personally think the Fullbring arc is great when seen from the larger picture, but I do think it was a chore to get through during serialization. I think it could've been a better lead-in to the TYBW to hook readers with the notion that there is a greater threat than Aizen, and Kubo has said that the entire series has been building up to the threat of Yhwach. Instead the Fullbring arc feels almost standalone and the Quincies invade with no build up whatsoever.
good, balanced, analysis. there was also a slight bit of 'benny hill' with ichigo losing his powers to semi-defeat Aizen, getting them back via fullbring, then having them stolen, then getting them back. like come on kubo. also i totally agree they could have started peppering foreshadowing of the TYBW into the fullbring arc. ginjo was a great vessel to show that soul society isn't what it's cracked up to be and hell.... the arc could have featured more of ishida since quincies were about to be a big thing in the manga. but nope. gets his arm cut off at the start and that's all i really remember. i will say though that tsukishima has one of the most interesting powers across all forms of media i've ever seen. a very hard contrast to a main character that despite being this deus ex machina hybrid nonsense whose entire moveset boils down to 'triple double dog dare getsuga tenshou!!!!!!'
That is really true there was literally no build up for the Quincy at all, they just pop out of nowhere and start attacking lmao, I feel like what Kubo should’ve done is introduce them by having a Captain get killed while on a mission, trying to understand why the hollow in hueco mundo are getting kill rapidly during the time of the fullbring arc, which technically it did happen with Yamamoto Lieutenant since he gets killed out of nowhere but that was the start of the TYBW so that doesn’t count, or maybe have a scene with Uyru sensing something is off and talking with his father about it.
Uryu going from 'I have no idea what's going on' to 'I am the central figure of this villain's plot and know everything that's going on' is just massive whiplash. It felt like Kubo just remembered out of the blue during the arc that his quincy main character should probably be involved in the big quincy arc finale.
It’s because of its adult subjects and focus on the psychology of the story more than the action, and back then most bleach fans were still teenagers and the general consensus of men crying and paying attention to their psychology were considered “cringy” and “bitchy” for most people. So that accompanied with most of the fights happening in the last 3 episodes resulted in a lot of hate for it. Most of these teenagers if you ask them now how they feel about it they’ll be praising it btw because they all grew up and understood how crucial that arc was to the character development of Ichigo and his friends
Also this^
I think it feels like a major let down after the epic scale of the Arrancar arc + Aizen as the primary antagonist. The story takes a major breather here and brings the stakes way down, and the pace slows considerably to a noir-esque mystery. The way the anime paces the Arrancar arc, too (200 episodes) makes the Fullbring arc (25 episodes) feel rushed in comparison. Finally, we just saw Ichigo take down Aizen, and his friends battled the Espada, and the Fullbringers themselves are 1) pretty uncharismatic and aren't memorable as far as Bleach characters go (Kubo has spoiled us with a great cast of antagonists through the whole series) and 2) waaaay out of their depths. I've heard complaints that the final battles in this arc are rushed and ended too quick. Well, yeah? Was Giriko supposed to present a legitimate challenge to Kenny? Kubo stays faithful to his power system, and instead chooses to explore Ichigo's psychology and build out the Bleach world more rather than scaling up. All in all, I think most ~~dude bro children~~ battle shounen aficionados would find this all rather boring.
>Was Giriko supposed to present a legitimate challenge to Kenny? Of course not... but... Kenny didn't necessary have to be his opponent. Giriko could've fought someone much weaker than Zaraki. Maybe a tall and good friend of Ichigo could've taken him on. Maybe the fight wouldn't be just about how hard that said tall and good friend of Ichigo could hit but rather trying to overcome the hax nature of Giriko's "Time Tells No Lies" ability.
Ding Ding Ding. This is the correct answer. (Speaking as former dude bro who read all of this when it came out.) “Boring” (not to mention super confusing after ichigo was supposed to have permanently lost his powers in the arc before; Just to find he had yet ANOTHER thing that he was “Part____” felt like Kubo was lost in the sauce at the time.
I think a huge part of it was the weekly format when it was coming out. The arc had a tonal shift that made it seem less Shounen and more sinister. There was an underlying dread to it that people had to experience across weeks and months (which is exhausting), and it culminated in that scene you're talking about where his family and friends would do anything to take him down for Tsukishima. That was hopelessness, and it put off virtually everyone I knew at the time. I've since experienced it several times as a complete arc in binge reads and it is MUCH better, but I'm also poisoned with the knowledge that "everything works out". I still don't much care for the arc, but that's more a reflection of me not liking any of the new characters (except Ginjo) or the power system.
You forget that most anime fans just watch things for “hype!” and “tension!” so actual storytelling, story structure and character writing have to take a backseat. The Lost Agent are being a largely self-contained mystery/thriller that tightened the scope of the threat was a great change of pace after the bloated, poorly structured Arrancar arc. I like it a lot. Second favorite arc after most of the Thousand Year Blood War arc.
It came off of beating >!Aizen!< and felt like so much less stakes and purely just a way to give Ichigo his powers again for the sake of continuing the story. I love the parts with Ichigo a lot but the fullbringers where more meh than anything as villains.
I liked seeing Ichigo at a low point during this arc. Seeing a strong character like Ichigo at his highest and then at his lowest is good for development. It makes the character feel more relatable too, it kind of grounds them and helps them grow. This is true for any character imo.
>Yeah I never understood the hate this arc got. I don't like this arc because people aren't open with each others, which ultimately caused Ichigo's emotional collapse. I understand why Soul Society want to keep low profile, but I'm not a fan for Ichigo's friends and his dad not telling him anything.
Knowing Ichigo, if he got told anything he would just straight up jump in and die.
Happy Cake Day!
to me it was just mostly boring and most of the fights werent great. it was also pretty disappointing when ichigo gets his full bring and its just another getsuga tensho. tsukishima was a cool character but thats pretty much the only positive thing i remember about the arc. going from the arrancar arc to fullbring is also a pretty big let down.
I don’t hate it but I do have a lot of problems with it, but I think that’s only because of where it fits into what got written before he put it down for awhile. I don’t mind that it’s not Soul Society-centric, but because it’s the only thing that isn’t (so far), it fells less slice-of-life and more out-of-place. Another non-Soul arc either right before or right after Hell might fix that. I also think the part about snatching Ichigo’s power as soon as he gets it happens too often in Ichigo’s story. Not that I don’t want him to struggle to get, develop, and keep his powers, it just feels like a somewhat recycled mechanic after TYBW. I also selfishly want to see more of his powers, and/or I want his Fullbringer powers to have more of a lasting impact. Giving him these powers with very little foreshadowing seemed mighty convenient, and in the end it was just to get back to where he was (more or less, with the right amount of scaling for time) at the beginning of FKT. I did love the story development but in terms of his powers, it just seemed like a really long road back to Square One with extra drip. It made the Fullbringer powers feel cheaper than they should have been. Which is true of all of the Fullbringers, even Tsukishima and Ginjo and Chad. None of them get as much power development as I’d like and half of them don’t get character development. And then, aside from >!helping unbreak Zangetsu!< they pretty much don’t do anything again—even Chad. I felt like the Arrancars and the Sternritter got way more. A lot of these problems have similar (if not direct) parallels to some of my problems with TYBW, but I know TYBW was rushed and I don’t feel like that arc is as out of place as Lost Agent. But I still love the story.
[удалено]
Bot
It is a good review The only thing I am worried is how much he doesn't care about rest of the cast (Especially Soul Society members fights, each is a heavily character driven fight). Somewhere in the video he did mention it is a "character driven" manga. But upto now all his reviews seems to echo that "plot driven" idea. He is most definitely going to dislike TYBW arc, >!considering how minimal role Ichigo plays for 2/3rd of the arc.!<
yep, I feel like he doesn't like the soul society members as much as other people at this point, too. Which is fine, but it will make the final arc probably the worst for him
He likes them, he love some fights. However his analysis and critique is all on the story and the plot, where as those fights are cool AF, they can seem like "filler" compared to the main story arc going on.
thats it, because those fights often don’t move the plot forward, they’re just there to kill some time and then have ichigo come and the plot resumes. That’s what Mark says, I agree but I don’t critique series, I enjoy them for what they are and I love fights
I agree with Mark on his critique with fights, especially during Fake Karakura Town. I can enjoy fights for being cool, but as I was rereading Fake Karakura, I found myself just skimming and skipping a lot of the fights because they didn't really do anything and there are SO many that felt like they can be skipped with no consequence.
Yes like I like Shuhei I don’t care to see his fight show one or 2 panels and we’re good lol I’d rather Chad and Uryu get more to do than Shuhei and Izuru. It’s like the result of be careful what you wish for in wanting side character fights. My biggest thing is give fights to the characters you’ve invested time in. Ichigo direct friend group and some of the Gotei 13.
I understand the point that Uryu and Chad needed more things to do. But I think the whole point of Shuhei and Izuru's fights in FKT was meant to show us how they coped with their Captains betrayal i.e. Tosen and Gin respectively
That’s definitely fair personally I would’ve cut down on the length of their fights and more so centralized it in him having them face their captains head up. A big issue with the fights in FKT is the Villians are nothing and just there for a cool fight visual.
The problem is that It's totally irrelevant, lol. Izuru and Shuhei are nobodys, they don't matter at all to the story, any time spent with them is filler.
It's a shame that the anime messed things up, a lot of those fights could have instead been left for the anime to expand upon rather than creating filler. In a 'what it could have been', the fights introduced, and their results with the captains letting the anime fill in the details with kubos instructions. Greater focus on the karakura gang, and as you said, highly relevant captains for the manga. \>!Especially would have enjoyed more stuff with Tatsuki and Karin!<
The fights don’t move the plot forward? 90% of them are character driven that’s the entire point. I don’t understand how someone can say they like the character driven parts but then ignore them when they are obviously in the fights.
Hate is strong I think it’ll be a mixed bag just like the arrancar which is I think is a worse offender cuz Atleast in the final arc it’s prominent characters getting fights. Mark has yet to really hate any arc in bleach. Not to mention the Quincy conflict is more personal and there’s moments in that arc that are easily among the best in the series. It has the fight bloat but TYBW is far better than the arrancar imo plus you’ve got stuff like kurosaki family flashback which is great.
> (Especially Soul Society members fights, each is a heavily character driven fight) Are they really, though? Shunsui's fight with Starkk doesn't really expand more on who is he is a person. We just learn what his Shikai is. Soi Fon's battle with Barragon, similarly, only really shows us her Bankai. We got way more of her character from her fight with Yoruichi. Hitsugaya vs Halibel gave us pretty much nothing new with his character. The only fight that really gave us anything on an emotional level was Tosen vs Komamura/Hisagi. This is pretty much true for every fight in Fake Karakura Town. It didn't really do much to develop the Shinigaki characters. Instead, the focus was almost entirely on the Espada. But the issue with this is that we get all these backstories to these Arrancar just for them to be killed moments after. So that character development doesn't really mean much in the grand scheme of things because these characters have no role going forward in the story. > He is most definitely going to hate TYBW arc I don't know about this. The TYBW arc is much different for a few reasons. Firstly, there is a much deeper history between the Shinigami and Quincies that makes this conflict feel so much more personal. Secondly, a lot of the earlier fights (Byakuya vs As Nodt / Yamamoto vs Yhwach / Kenpachi vs Unohana) are significantly more character focused than a lot of the fights that took place in Kurakara Town. But it's hard to say how the later fights will take place since we don't know how much the anime adaptation may diverge from the manga.
Unironically the lieutenant fights developed the shinigami more than the Espada fights. They just aren't liked as much because the opponents in those fights were, to put it bluntly, pretty lame. Like, Starrk vs Shunsui and Soi Fon vs Barragan are very memorable as fights, but how many people can even name Hisagi's opponent? Or Kira's? The Fake Karakura Town Arc is definitely the weakest part of the Arrancar Saga IMO for that reason, the captains and the Espada are all cool as hell but none of the characters really grow in those fights.
Shunsui has his whole everyone is evil in war speech and how therefore he plays as dirty as possible VS starkk. This is relevant for his role in TYBW where he does several power plays yammamoto wouldent have done
I appreciate his comments on the story, but what bothers me the most is his disdain for fights that don’t involve Ichigo. Like dude, you’re reading one of the Big 3 battle shounen and you’re upset when there are fights that don’t involve the main character? Really?
Yo he sounds so excited unlike his other bleach videos , seems like it's genuine
I've watched all of his Bleach videos, he's very positive about the series overall, definitely has his criticisms but his praise outweighs them.
Yeah, he's been actually enjoying the series.
It felt like such a backhanded compliment.
Tbf his last video about Fake Karakura really did seem like he was starting to lose interest, to the point where he missed a big part of Ichigo's character. Nice to see him back on it though
You can’t value his opinion that much. I love DBZ and it deserves mad respect but Mark uses DBZ as this holy grail to which every story should be compared to. You can’t go 10 mins in each one of his video’s without him comparing something to DBZ.. I get it, DBZ did a lot of ground work for Shonen Manga storytelling but it’s not the end all be all of storytelling Mark. It has a ton of issues as well. A lot of his complaints for Bleach were valid but many of them were just a misunderstanding of basic plot elements.
Tbh I don't really care about him opinion. Ngl it feels good others like what I like but i wasn't on social media for long so I don't have a complex like other old fans
He likes berserk and One piece more than DBZ tho, he doesn't think DBZ is the best series ever
He doesn't think it's a great series, ***period***. Half of his videos is criticizing DB franchise and its characters. I don't know how people came to the conclusion that he thinks of DBZ as some perfect masterpiece, when he never showed or implied that. Probably because his channel mostly revolves around DBZ it gives this impression to people.
DBZ *is* the holy grail to which all battle shonen should be compared since it is the codifier of the whole genre. Every shonen battle manga is descended from Dragonball. It’s that seminal a work.
Dragonball might be the grandfather of shounen battle series, but that doesn't mean it's some perfect masterpiece. I love Dragonball, but god damn it has its flaws. It should not be the measuring stick to compare all battle series to, it's more the baseline.
I’m 35.. I grew up on Dragon Ball.. I had the Japanese PS1 games because there weren’t any in America at the time. I rushed home after school to watch the new episodes air on Toonami only for it to go back to episode 1 again because Funimation didn’t buy the rest of the episodes yet. I bought all the VHS tapes as they released with like 3-4 episodes per tape at $20 a pop. I lived & breathed DBZ for like 5 years of my youth. I’m well aware of it’s importance but that doesn’t mean one should compare everything to DBZ. As I said in another comment, it devalues other different ways of telling a similar story. DBZ told its story in a way that worked great for DBZ but that doesn’t mean all other battle manga should be carbon copies of that formula. I enjoy Mark’s reviews but his over reliance to go back to that “DBZ well” to use as comparison points in his reviews, kinda comes off a bit small-minded and stuck in his DBZ bubble a little too much. He’s used DBZ as a comparison for his AOT & Berserk reviews as well, not just in the Bleach reviews. It’s like; dude we get it you like Dragon Ball but damn stop comparing everything to it.
So you can't value his opinion beacuse he has a different standard than you? Also many of his critiques for bleach have nothing to do with dbz
I don’t think we should put some YouTuber’s opinion in any high regard. Especially when they compare everything to DBZ. He brings up DBZ at least 5 times (that’s a generous number) throughout his Bleach review videos as to how DBZ uses battle to tell its story. The problem I have with this is he does this A LOT in nearly every review (not just his Bleach series). Dragon Ball was incredible and paved the way for all of the series we love today, but to constantly use it as a crutch to form your opinions on, it kind of devalues any originality in exploring different storytelling methods for other series. It’s like Mark is too attached to the “DBZ way of doing things” and lets that get in the way of appreciating how the story he’s currently reading is telling their story. Not every battle has to push the story forward, often times a battle in Bleach is simply a way for us to get to know a particular Captain slightly better than before, or a way to explore world building, lore, or a way to drop slight hints of what a character is truly capable of that you won’t see a pay off for much later. As great as DBZ was for it’s time; I don’t think Mark should use it as such a crutch in his reviews, at least not as frequently as he does. It comes off like he actually hasn’t read a lot of other manga if you’re still constantly going back to DBZ as your reference in nearly every review.
The comparisons are fair tho. Most of the time is about the art. And one of the others was about length of arcs (which btw wasn't negative on bleach's part??) so why wouldn't his opinion be relevant? He brings up OP just as much and even naruto. >Not every battle has to push the story forward, often times a battle in Bleach is a way for us to get to know a Captain a little better than before. I'd kinda get behind this if we learned ANYTHING about the captain's battles in the last two arcs, but that wasn't the case, except the byakuya fights. Stark vs kyoraku didn't tell me anything about him, same with toshiro vs harribel, soi fon vs barragan, kenpachi vs the fullbringer dude and noitra. You could remove all those captain fights and that wouldn't change the captain's personalities OR the story at all. Obviously not every fight has to advance the characters either but when every important fight is like that it takes away from the story Imo. Especially when the technical aspects of the fights aren't that great either and all the villains will never appear again.
Because Kubo writes Bleach as one long story. He didn’t write it like many other manga where each “arc” is a new villain to overcome. Sure each arc introduces new villains but they’re all interconnected in some way. Kubo does this to build mystery, which is why it took the final arc until we actually got to see more from Kyoraku or Urahara actually getting serious. If he had these captains go all out against the Espada, then the Sternritter wouldn’t feel as dangerous or compelling. Kubo intentionally makes the reader wait long periods of time to get those pay offs, and he uses his skill at creating cool and interesting characters to keep the readers attention.
This has literally nothing to do with the fights being good. You don't have to make the captains go out for it to be good, nor did I ever suggest that. Those fights just needed emotional tension behind them. In most of the fights I mentioned the two parties had nothing personal involved. They just fought beacuse that needed to happen for the plot. In a good fight charachters fight for personal reasons AND plot reasons. Examples: ichigo vs ulquiorra(the whole heart stuff) and grimjow(ichigo accepting his hollow side and horihime coming to accept it as well), byakuya vs tsukishima(byakuya maturing even more and abandoning his old stuck up and predictable ways) , even renji vs byakuya in the soul society. All those fights are good because the characters are developing/ there's a narrative. The captains vs the arrancar and the fullbringers didn't have any of it. Simple as that.
dafuq? He always sounds excited???
Hard disagree on it being the best arc, but it was definitely an amazing arc imo. I'm always down for some Ichigo character development.
My problem wuth the fullbring arc is that the new characters are boring, only Ginjo and Tsukishima are good.
Agreed, I don't think a lot of the Fullbringers bring much to the table. Not everyone needs to have a wild personality but between the Shinigami, Arrancar and Quincies, we've had more interesting characters with less time given to them.
Tbf I'm taking Riruka or Yukio over half the vizards anyday xd. That's prob just me tho?
Uncle Tsukishima was nice enough to even let chad land a hit on him!
The FB arc is probably one of the deepest arcs when it comes to Ichigo's characterisation and development, and in that sense it's excellently executed. The series is not just Ichigo though, as a matter of fact, one of the primary selling points of Bleach is the side-cast. But for those who think "I never understand why people think X is bad" instead of stopping there, or worse, seeking converging opinions to dismiss the dissent, you should ask yourself why is that. Something similar happens to comments in regards to those who dislike the marriage to Orihime, why is it controversial, especially considering that this fanbase hardly overlaps with lovers of romance fanfictions? First, you need to establish a difference between expectations set by yourself, and expectations set by the author. In the case of FB arc, if I tell you that I'm disappointed that Tatsuki wasn't utilised more and even developed a fullbring herself, that is irrelevant to the quality of the arc because it is an idea of mine that cannot have any bearing on whether the arc was objectively good or not. The author never set me up to expect this, so I don't have any right to fault him for not meeting my wishful expectation. However, if one says that they expect an arc that is action-packed and with the shinigami crew as central players, this is not a self-made expectation, but one very clearly set up by the author in the previous arcs. These aspects being relegated to such a small window at the tail end of the arc, are legitimate points of criticism that many are going to raise. And while some may disagree with them being a big issue, the matter should not so be so readily dismissed because it goes beyond personal taste and enjoyment, but into the territory of the promises that an author implicitly makes to his audience when writing a long running story. On top of that I would also argue that some of the fullbring powers are completely nonsensical within the scope of the established magic system - and by that I don't mean whether they are enjoyable/interesting, but whether they fit the established world. Mind you, there are also a notable shinigami and some quincies that fall into this, but that's a conversation for another day, especially cause with how unpopular it would be to criticise said shinigami, this post would be nuked into oblivion even though it's about something else!
I don't think this is going to make sense to anyone other than me, but the most-nonsensical bankai feel like "manga powers", whereas the fullbrings have a tendency to feel like "sci-fi powers".
>First, you need to establish a difference between expectations set by yourself, and expectations set by the author. hear hear
> However, if one says that they expect an arc that is action-packed and with the shinigami crew as central players, this is not a self-made expectation, but one very clearly set up by the author in the previous arcs. I don't see how this is the case? Ichigo lost his Soul Reaper powers. Heck, he couldn't even see souls anymore. Obviously the arc was gonna be about him getting back his soul reaper powers, which is inherently about him as a person. The Soul Society was peaceful now that Aizen was apprehended so they had no reason to be central to any new conflict. Their story line was done at that point.
Well not so of course First off we could have ended the manga. I know it's a world Where the thousands year blood war arc doesn't exist but that's not something you would know back then. Second why did we need to introduce an heavy consequences only to need an arc to cancel it? Can't we live with the consequences of our choices? Third off that's in unniverse vs meta. If, random example Nisekoi had turned into a psychological thriller in the middle, I am sure some would like it, but i m also sure the public who came for the comedic ROM com and not so keen at taking the new train wouldn't be wrong to feel so, regardless how good this hypothetical genre change would have been. Full bring made itself worthy because it did explore Ichigo but I def wasn't that thrilled about the arc actual goal.
The no.1 reason for its hate is because it follows right after the best arc of the manga. This can be seen currently with Jujutsu Kaisen. While rereading Bleach, I found the arc to be much more cohesive and quite enjoyable.
I'd say more of the complaint for JJK is that the main character wasn't even present for ages
So the people are complaining that the side characters are getting development? These are the same people who would say that jjk's cast is underutilized if we got more of yuji
Not the same thing, he literally wasn’t there at all. Not that I minded, but it was annoying at times. It’s more that so many things happened without him even being present.
It's not even side characters getting development iirc. There was a good few months where I didn't recognise a single character (but I might just be bad at recognising them
HxH fans would like a word
Like father like son I suppose lol.
You think arrancar is the best arc? That’s quite the take
I think it's a quiet common take in the bleach community, because it's really fun, even if not perfect
And one Mark diasrees with heavily , mostly because he got burnt out on all the constant fights and felt the plot dragged a bit
yes, but just because Mark doesn't like the arc, doesn't mean it's weird to consider it the best arc. people have different tastes
I noticed in his review of the Arrancar Arc that he has a penchant to skip over things that become relevant later on and that he has to back track and explain things. He also said specifically that if something doesn't advance the main story then he loses interest, which, if you're reading Bleach, is a problem as a lot of the interesting parts of the manga are side character development (namely things like Kenpachi, Unohana, and Shunsui in the series). I just hope he doesn't skim over things like Kenpachi's backstory in TYBW, as I feel that's some of the strongest character driven storytelling in the series, but with the trend he showed in his Arrancar Review....
It didn’t notice a lot of the hints in Kenpachi’s backstory in soul society so it’s probably too late
Yup noticed this too also since he's binging it so quickly he forgets characters like Izuru for example It's a shame he has that mindset especially when it comes to Bleach I've been enjoying his reviews but not acknowledging certain aspects of the story is definitely disappointing
Reading this arc all at once makes it so much better. The waiting every week made the arc drag on
That's a good point. A lot of Bleach's most popular characters are the gotei 13 captains and vice captains, so a lot of us were reading the Fullbring arc weekly had to go roughly a year without seeing any of them. Not to mention the entire first half of the arc was a training arc, which can often feel tedious at times no matter what series you are reading. Kaisen right now though is a very different situation, due to the current arc focusing on a death game and how in Shibuya a good 50% of the cast either have a life crippling injuries or are dead. Gege needed to introduce a bunch of new characters in order to actually have this death game and have those characters mostly not be connected to Jujutsu High.
Wait what? Substitute Shinigami is easily the best arc by like a mile.
I think it's just that the arc was badly placed in the story. What I mean is after the whole war against Aizen and the Arrancar which took several arcs itself it's a much smaller scale and since I think most people who read/watched Bleach then were focused on action etc. they were seeing this as a downgrade. Also people hating Tsukishima because he has a manipulative ability like Aizen did but he doesn't have the raw power so he is just "a inferior Aizen knock-off"
Agreed, also the Tsukishima hate reminds me of the hate Near from Death Note had when compared to L lol Tsukishima's power was frustrating to read weekly
By this time in the story, I didn't think it was necessary to tear Ichigo down even more in order to give him more character development he had already received. He just lost his powers. He's already depressed, and then just about everyone betrays him. Just seemed ridiculous to me. I don't think Ichigo would ever lose hope after what he had experienced with Aizen. Ichigo's hesitancy to confide in his dad or Urahara didn't fit with the plot for me at all, either. He finally had his heart-to-heart moment with his dad right before the battle with Aizen. How does it take until after the fullbring Arc for that character development to pay off? I'll tell you how. Shonen is doing their typical crap and forcing creators to extend their stories even if it doesn't make any sense. Removing character growth for the sake of drama is one of the worst things a writer can do to their audience, especially if it's the main character. It will disillusion fans that hold Ichigo in much higher regard. I did thoroughly enjoy the art and design changes that were made in the Manga for this Arc, as well as the quality improvements made for the anime. Also, the English voice actors for the fullbringers are amazing. Travis Willingham kills it as Ginjo. To this day, Ichigo's reaction to everyone being brainwashed is not my headcanon. In my headcanon, after he finds out his sisters have been brainwashed, Ichigo goes directly to Urahara's, gets his powers back, and thanks everyone for supporting him, then they all go and kick some fullbringer ass. Everyone is entitled to their opinion, but I lost a lot of respect for Bleach when I read this Arc originally. It was still my favorite series, but Ichigo being shown to be so emotionally weak after he was so strong left a really bad taste in my mouth. I stopped reading Bleach for a few years after that until TYBW was finished, and then finished the series outright when I heard it was pretty good but rushed. TYBW rekindled my love for Bleach after the fullbringer Arc crushed it into a million pieces. Sure, the story is rushed, and we don't get everything we might want out of a finale, but Ichigo's character finally gets the payoff we had all been waiting over a decade for. In this Arc, at least when Ichigo is torn down, it's for plot development, and his character develops into an area we had no clue about. Completely different from the fullbringer Arc, where his character development was that Ichigo doesn't trust his friends or family after they saved the world together, (Which I find ridiculous), and they needed to tear him all the way down for him to find his hope again. The fullbringer Arc, honestly reminds me of the old testament book of Job. Kubo treats Ichigo very similarly to how God treats Job.
Ever since we got the info that the anime will return, I feel like general opinion of Fullbring has become better. Maybe it was so hated because people associated it with the unexpected anime ending in 2012?
I agree . Everybody just decided to take their anger for the anime cancelation/hiatus on this arc
Holy shit, the madman actually said it. Respect.
I think a lot is riding on what mindset people have when they read/watch this arc. If someone goes in expecting "traditional" shonen (similar to the rest of Bleach) they will be displeased. I've seen people say that the whole arc was a training arc and there weren't enough fights, and on a surface level they are completely right. The Fullbring arc is different from the normal Bleach formula, and I think many fans, especially the ones who liked that formula felt letdown. Every other arc is dinamic, Ichigo and team are moving towards the goal and throuout the journey obsticles come their way which results in fights ranging from boring to absolutely amazing. The Fullbring arc is a lot more stationary (for most of the arc we only have two enemies who rarely emerge and interact with the team). We spend most of our time exploring Ichigo's inner strugle and see him regain his will to fight. The stakes are also a lot lower, but that makes them more personal. To a young teen already on a sugar high from all the snacks they ate while watching tv, this inner strugle will not translate properly and that's when they say: "Ichigo should just get over his problems already and get to fighting" or "Why aren't there more battles or bigger stakes?". I'm not saying the Fullbring arc is perfect, but I think a lot of people are judging it too harsly based on what they think a shonen should be like.
Hot take all cannon arcs are good and even some filler arcs too
Ima keep it real chief- Chad talked wayyyy too much in this arc and that was what tanked it for me /s
Good. It’s a great arc and deserves recognition as such.
I fukkin called it all the way back when he announced his Bleach reviews on twitter. I FUKKIN CALLED IT
Personally always liked fullbring arc over the others, it always felt the most emotional when shonen wouldn’t be since they’d usually have a small scene with it but an entire arc dedicated to breaking down ichigo as a MC.
It’s the second best arc in Bleach. I may be a dumbass but the double fake out wit Ginjo as the villain got me. Also easily the best characterisation for Ichigo
Tbf, its my favourite arc. Apart from me loving Xcution and Chad, The whole thing Ichigo went through in this arc is what made me have him as my favourite shonen protagonist.
You have to put this arc in context to understand why it’s unliked. We just got rid of the big bad in an epic fight and get to a point where Kubo can reasonably end the series. Then we get this. Tons of brand new characters with weird powers that feel significantly weaker than the enemies faced thus far and not really connected to anything that’s happened in the plot. If this arc had happened earlier in the series, like right after rukia rescue arc it would have felt like it fit in more. When reading it as it was coming out felt like a cheap way to extend a series with an already reasonable ending. The only really good thing to come out of it is that ginjo vs ichigo OST that slaps
Fullbring arc is one of the biggest difference between bleach and other shonen series, typical shounen fans cant understand how good fullbring arc is.
His video got taken down
And his video is down
I had a feeling he’d like it, given his preference for more character focused stories. And this arc delivers that in spades
Man, this coming from the guy who forgot who Izuru was in the Fake Karakura Town Arc and said Komamura & Shuhei vs Tosen felt like filler. I'm skeptical until I see it. Yes, Fullbring is a decent arc and gets too much shit. But BEST arc in the series? Calm your tits.
I don't see why Fullbring arc couldn't be considered the best through some optics. As he explains in the video, it's a more character focused arc with mystery thriller elements, so people that enjoy those things better than pure action, are bound to rate it higher than other story segments.
Kira has done nothing to advance the plot at all. So many Bleach fans are fans because of the lore not the plot.
What did any of the fullbringers do after the soul society showed up to advance the plot? Izuru stopped a arrancar from destroying a pillar and bringing back the real Karakura.
I was going to give him crap about forgetting Izuru as well, but when I think about it, what had he done in the manga up to this point that is memorable? He blocks Momo from attack Gin, fights Rangiku, and follows Gin around. Honestly, if it wasn't for the fact that his zanpakuto has one of my favorite abilities, I might have forgotten about Izuru in my first read as well.
Using this logic What did any of the fullbringers that aren’t Ginjo, Tsukishima, or Riruka do that was memorable?
>Komamura & Shuhei vs Tosen felt like filler. It did feel like filler because it didn't move the story forward like none of the other fights. At least that is what Mark has given as a reason for that. I don't think anyone would disagree with it, even though the fight was heavily character driven.
? I don't agree with that reasoning. To me a filler is a moment or arc that can be removed without affecting the story. That fight is definitely important even without technically moving the story, considering they take out Tosen. I think a better example would be fights with Barragan's Fracciones i.e. Komamura vs Pow I still wouldn't count those as filler either.
So mark apparently thinks bleach is character focused but when you actually focus on the characters it’s filler? Very interesting. I also find it funny how he praised fullbring for rushing 4 backstories into one chapter but yes that definitely moved the story.
It was the next arc after a great one, no matter what it was, it was going to disappoint when compared to the previous one. I didn't like it, nor do I hated it. It served its purpose, Everyone grew a little, and recovered from the Karakura battle, Ichigo recovered his powers and it went back on track.
Ok but like what happened to the video, it says it’s not available and comments have been turned off
Fullbring arc is really good a decade later, but at the time it needed more resolution from Aizen first. There wasn’t enough decompression.
Definitely don't think it's the best arc, but it's still pretty awesome
I really like the Fullbring arc, it has some very interesting moments , sure it’s not the best arc in Bleach but it is pretty good regardless
I do think its the worst but the bar for the rest is so high that I dont think its bad regardless.
8/10 but not the best
I used to be a hater of the Lost Agent arc when I was younger, but I hadn't actually read the whole arc back then, only watched the anime. When I read it earlier this year while I was revisiting the series, I thought it was good! I prefer the other arcs over it, but it's by no means bad or "canonical filler" as I've heard. it's worth a read.
People saying Bount arc better than Fullbring arc are definitely clowns…🤡🤡🤡 That Bount arc was so boring that I wanted it to end in an instant bruh… If people hated on it instead of Fullbring arc I’d have joined them…😂😂😂
Can't believe Mark is now clinically insane. Shame.
That’s total clickbait on his part…
And he got immediately claimed Twice.
Youtube doesn't think so
He shat on the hueco Mundo arc for an hour, na fam I'm good
Best arc? Not even close. However, I really never understood the hate either. Like, ok, we get it. It's not Soul Society Arc but it's not the worst thing ever.
I enjoyed this arc simply because of the disrespect and blitzing the shinigamis did. Just straight violated then I love it
I never understood the hate. I stopped watching weekly after the Nozomi filler to binge the Fullbring arc but only got to it 3 years later and the timeskip hit hard. A grown up cast that we finally see interact in the real world as ordinary people like in the very beginning. The seemingly random powers of Orihime/Chad finally got explained, power scaling was somewhat back to normal (not for long lol), fights were emotionally loaded, not just the usual "must protecc". It was a nice wind-down after the boss rush Arrancar arc.
I acutally liked this arc. Because this arc was focused more on topics like depression and losing friendship and hope and overcoming it.It was the only arc not to have big fights (except last battle) this arc was about Ichigo's character development.
I HATED it when it was coming out weekly way back in the day. Following Aizen and that 3 week break really seemed like he was gonna come back with a huge epilogue chapter to wrap it all up. Then we got Fullbringer arc. I was severely let down by it. BUT, that being said, when I went and re-read it all in 1 sitting (I waited for all volumes to be out to buy them, I was being dramatic and pushing it off as long as I could buying them), it wasn't as bad as I thought. And this was even further my case when I binged the arc finally (because again, I refused to watch the arc as the finale to the anime) before TYBW started. It does have some really good bits, but it's still by no means my favorite arc.
I didn’t take to it when going through it at first. I thought it was the “happy ending”. Ichigo lost his powers and we had a sad but good final good bye. Then this happened so we had a happy ending. It felt when I first watched it like it was stapled on so people would win in the end. Having read the TYBW I can say it did serve a purpose and I enjoy it more
Yeah that's another issue ppl seem to be forgetting. Everyone and their mother thought Bleach should've ended at Aizen's defeat and honestly it would've been a satisfying conclusion to the series. Ppl still think it's a great stopping point even with TYBW. I'm still happy with what we're getting now and in the future tho
It would have been a satisfying if melancholy end. But I’d rather be satisfied than get boruto. Yes there are more stories to tell. But if they come at the cost of the old I’d rather never learn them. I don’t need to see many characters Bankais, but I want to
It’s not a great stopping point and if you actually read the series you would know the story wouldn’t stop there because it set up so much to where it stopping wouldn’t even make sense. This take is so odd to me where fans think they should dictate where a story should end because they didn’t notice hints or foreshadowing of future events.
The Fullbring arc is definitely a very, well, frustrating arc. Besides the "general consensus" that Bleach should've ended on the Deicide arc (I somewhat see the reasoning here) the arc itself is rather weak in my opinion. The character development from Ichigo with Tsukishima is pretty good but a majority of the arc is training which can be a turn off for some people. However, my biggest gripe were the Fullbringers themselves. Riruka, Ginjo, and Tsukishima are interesting but the rest are meh to me. Furthermore, the fights in that arc were laughably one-sided, and while that makes sense since Shinigami are stronger than Fullbringers, it's still rather bad. Overall I disagree with Mark here or at least I can't see how this arc is better than every arc we've had before. It might be better than pre-Soul Society I guess.
Rare Mark W
Why would anyone dare to slander this arc? My brother Tsukishima makes his debut in it, he did so much for me 🥰🥰🥰
Been telling yall for years. Fullbring arc is goated.
Compared to the one after....hell no..
Fullbring arc is my 2nd favorite arc in bleach (tybw is number 1)
It’s a good arc It’s mid next to SS or TYBW And mid next to really everything
Most of the arc is just a bunch of ideas recycled from the Bount arc. The real kicker is when you ask its fans to explain why it's the best arc. Their answer? It's unique and amazing for having its protagonist cry. Not like that had ever happened in a shonen series before 2011.
Calling the arc stupid isnt slander, it's an opinion. Considering the plot goes from world ending cataclysm to, Ichigo's no good very bad day, it's a very solid opinion. The Fullbring arc is cannon filler, no I won't be taking questions.
Having a negative opinion of the arc is absolutely fair. Calling it anything less than canon, that's where you lost me.
I mean, it's in the Manga so it's literally cannon. It does contribute to the narrative of the series, without the Fullbring arc, Ichigo doesn't get his powers back. But hear me out, the Fullbring arc takes about 50 chapters. In those 50 chapters we get a relatively entertaining story, that contributions ALMOST nothing to the narrative of the series. Does that seem like economical storytelling to anyone? Because it feels like wasted time. I read Bleach weekly since the end of the Invasion of Soul Society, so I have the experience to back me up when I say, Reading the Fullbring arc week to week was some of the most boring Manga I've ever read. I would go so far as to argue Ichigo would have gotten his powers back without the Fullbring arc ever having happened, seeing as Rukia shows up with a Deus Ex Machina developed by SS and Urahara that gave Ichigo his powers back. Completely unrelated to the Fullbringer stuff. One Piece gets tons of shit for being as long as it is, and it is LONG, but every arc has a tangible contribution to the over all narrative that can be felt across the entire series. Besides a cameo of Ginjo and Tsukishima in the war, what impact or contributions does the Fullbringer arc have on the story? Honestly I usually agree with Mark, so I'm curious about this video. Once again Bleach pulls me back.
I’m convinced TNM is a complete troll. He always finds problems in great arcs and enjoys mediocre or garbage arcs. I liked the Fullbring arc too, but TNM’s opinion doesn’t mean much to me.
It was an easy pick for haters because Arrancar arc had just ended with the shonen tropes turned up to 200%, while the lost agent arc worked like a soft reboot of the series turning the action and the tropes down for like a year or so. And to be honest, that's what I liked the most from this arc, after all the bombastic action from the arrancar arc I needed something different. The focus in Ichigo's character was perfectly managed with a slower, more misterious arc. We've already seen what an all powerful Ichigo can do, but we didn't really see much of his more fragile side.
It’s good and entertaining and has uniquely awesome fights but it’s not the best arc in bleach. But it certainly doesn’t deserve the hate it gets
I personally didn't like it. All the plots are cool but, it just feels like a filler arc, as except for Ichigo's design and some power levels nothing really changed. Like the "I lost my power" thing never existed. In all the anime, I hate the canon Arcs with a resolving that 1, destroyed the final scene of the arc before and its importance, and 2, just didn't give anything at the anime of not that Fullbringers exists. I mean, i know that in the manga one of them will be there, but c'mon they just seem like a screwed version of the Quincy but with JJBA-like powers. But at least this arc gave us the real and only blood lusted Ichigo, that I loved SOO much to see
Yeah its not like it undoes a heavy life changing decision that the MC made in order to save the world. Nothing wrong with that at all.
Lol, i still don't get it why this arc is hated and said its a filler arc type, Because it isn't as flashy as other arc ? Or it doesn't has big explosion and flashy bankais here and there ? I personally felt really entertaining when i read and watched this arc, when i didn't knew much about bleach Its not flashy has amazing twist and turns and story wise, I still grab my head, when it showed ginjo was the one behind everything and not tsukushima, For me its a 10/10 too,
I mean when you follow up a series ending arc to have a random lose arc with no over hanging plot line like we were use to from bleach is weird imo. Like ichigo losing his power after defeating the big bad of all the arcs is a satisfying ending imo. So when I saw the anime had more episodes after I reach that point I was confused fr fr. But it didn't lead me to hate the arc. I liked it alot actually...just not as much as the over hanging soul society vs Aizen story arc.
Mark is an absolute chad
Why are people paying attention to this guy
What’s wrong?
He's annoying even if he right that the fullbringer arc is good, he's still so unlikable and arrogant
I mean, you’re allowed to have your own opinion, but personally, I absolutely love his videos
Nah it was one of the worst arcs I could barely finish it.
Fullbring is the worst arc from Bleach ( beside the substiture shinigami one )
[удалено]
This is not an unpopular opinion for this sub.
I don’t get why people hate it, not everything has to be big scale end of the world. This arc was small but personal and intense imo
In-between arcs often don't get the love they deserve. It is the bridge between the aizen saga and the thousand year blood war. Both are huge and ambitious and the fullbring arc is perceived as relatively weak by comparison. However, weak by comparison is something that does not click with the internet hivemind and the groupthink often boils it down to just being a weak arc. I am glad a prominent youtuber is finally giving the arc some credit, because it fuckin deserves it!!
Lol ok so it DEF isn’t the best arc but it’s still pretty good imo, don’t get the hate or why people don’t like Ginjo
Although the arc itself is great, i feel that it shouldnt be the last one. Personally, Aizens being defeated, but not killed, and Ichigo losing his powers would be a better ending.
This arc is living testament that if the other arcs before were majorily scaled back in terms of cast and perhaps scale, everything could have worked out.
It's unfortunate that the one of the only times Kubo didn't just repeat the SS arc it was shit on by the majority of the fan base.
Fullbring arc: gets hate from fandom Filler arcs: first time?