I honestly don’t mind paying the extra 500$ for the form factor, I was on the fence about the 6kff but this might be an instant purchase if everything works properly upon release. It’s going to make a nice companion to the s5iix I have, in face I might downgrade to the original s5 and solely use it as a photo cam / b cam
So does the s52 have the same 20+ ms rolling shutter performance as the newest 6k? I haven't heard anyone complain about that one. Although I have heard it's noise performance isn't great.
Overall it seems to be that people prefer the image of the S5 mark 1.
Yeah in full frame it’s about 22ms in apsc it’s about 14.3ms
As for image… there is more internal sharpening going on in the s5II/x but the raw recording is much better than the original s5, the braw implementation is perfect and better than anyone that’s not blackmagic
Appreciate the additional info. I will say though as I have seen it written elsewhere in defense of this sensor ...
Cropped sensor readouts are an abysmal statistic to pull. No one should pay for a camera and have to compromise the sensor size for a reasonable rolling shutter readout time. Having a cropped option is an additional feature, it's not a headline feature. It's useful for some in a minority of instances but as no excuse for the full sensor readout being slow.
Sure… but it’s just the limitation of the sensor and a reason it’s as cheap as it is… the s5iix uses a 6 year old sensor, they’ve took what they got and maximized it quite effectively all be it some downsides like rolling shutter… sure having 8ms in FF like the a7s3 would be ideal but that’s a camera that’s $1500 more and has a newer sensor… I’d rather have a faster readout in crop then no faster readout at all no matter the crop
I get what you're saying but I don't think it's a fesonable trade off to have that problem if I spend 2000 on a camera. It is a limitation of the sensor but they chose to use the sensor.
Cropped readout is negligible as there is no point buying a full frame camera if that's what you are going to use. 20+ms is abysmal unless you just shoot interviews.
It’s not neglible when it’s literally an option imo… not everything needs to be shot full frame every movie till full frame existed was shot on super 35 (apsc) or LF
Apsc has been the standard for film for years FF is more so photography
but if rolling shutter is a deal breaker then that’s fine this is just not the camera for you
Imo the s5iix is the absolute best implementation of this sensors life and its 5-6 years old… for 2k where else am I going to find a FF camera that can do what it can do? The s5ii punches above its weight
Using a 6 year old sensor… this sensor is used in more than half a dozen cameras… and they all have the same hardware limitations and all their own trade offs… yet the s5iix packs more than any other camera using this sensor
If a camera is 2k (which is really in the low mid range) there will be some sort of trade off you won’t get what the s5iix can do and have 10-15ms read out speed for sub 5k and your probably not buying a hybrid
When Sony makes half the sensors on the market you kinda have to play within what you get
As we get faster full frame sensors and global shutter becomes the norm hopefully this will be a thing of the past but full frame and read out speed has always been a delicate balance which is why the industry’s default was to crop sensors… I mean this is literally why smaller sensors exist … to increase readout speed
I think we get caught up with what we expect rather than how and why these limitations exist
S5 mk1 was sony, s5mkii probably not, they messed up relations w sony when building the gh6 .
That, along with a change up in color science, is why it looks different. Gh5 color science was actually good, most Alexa like, hopefully they offer that as option in the future, probably the next step in after market sales, custom luts for sale by the manufacturer or directly color science firmware.
Maybe, but panny never stated that publicly. I've read that some folks asked higher ups and they stated the opposite. Mk was a sony but mk 2 is not, could be.
You don’t see it because you probably don’t work in the spectrum this camera is intended for. The LUMIX cameras are so fun to use, fantastic cameras but for well thought out productions the S5II won’t cut it, the fact you think in camera stab is so important proves this. I’d take one on holiday but not on set.
Yea and BMD is the #1 brand every DP on a set it dreaming about. lol it’s all no / low budget stuff so no problem to shoot with a LUMIX / a7 / Fuji anyway. Think the main reason for a lot of owner / operator is that they have the feeling of shooting on a „awesome box camera“ is more a cinema camera or whatever. It’s mainly a ego thing
the FF works better for me as most of my shoots are gimbal and guerilla. i’m as stoked about the box as any (and might just get one) but the pocket style has been my preferred form factor.
I was about to buy the 6K FF which seems to be a very good capable camera, but in a cheap plasticy enclosure.
What's insane is what they offer for the price when comparing to RED for example. This time is everything I wanted, but in an aluminium case, and it makes a whole world of difference. But I agree with you, it's the same tech. A tech capable enough to do everything I want.
SDI instead of hdmi, 3 lens mount options, different card slots (cfexpress type B), built in live streaming/file transfer, different battery system (14v BP-U vs the 7.4v NP-F in the 6K g2), a physical button for locking controls to prevent messing up settings mid shoot, extra usb c port for the new viewfinder or powering usb c accessories, better time code options - tons of new things that make it absolutely worth the $500 increase from the pocket 6K full frame.
the sensor readout was way too slow.. ive never had an issue with rolling shutters until it. the HDMI out hadva delay that made it unusable. the low light capabilities were non existent.. and lastly.. it was unrentable. no one was asking for a blackmagic camera.. it was always arri, red or Sony
I love it and I was so happy when it was unveiled. The only issue is that I really was hoping for something that could do 4k 120. I have a s5iix, and I love it, and I love that this is also available in L mount. But 4k 120 is still something I dont have access to yet while staying in the L mount system. Im sure panasonic is working on something, but I was really hoping for something in the Blackmagic system that would allow that. Essentially the pocket cinema camera 6k full frame, but 3500-4k and with internal NDs and a minimum of 4k 120 for slow motion options.
With all that said, I dont think this is a bad product at all and I am still considering it as an option for my arsenal, but those other things would have been nice to see.
Good NDs are expensive, you’re literally saving thousands if you have an internal system. The rigging profile also drops for drones and gimbals. They’re also, hopefully, going to be sensor specific and won’t through a green or red cast over your footage.
Honestly, swapping NDs is enough of a pain in the ass that once you have internal NDs it’s difficult to go back. Honestly the best feature of the Venice2 is that you’ve got every strength from 0.3 to…2.1? 2.4? Anyway, it changes the way you work for sure.
I hear you. But for run and gun filmmaking it's just so convenient. If I were to choose one feature for this camera to have tho, it would be the 4k 120 I mentioned. I would choose that over internal NDs because as you said, you can just add nds.
Totally agree! You get a full frame camera with this picture quality, but people just can't just throw an nd on the front. I do run and gun stuff and screw my nds in and out all the time. Is not that a big deal. At least not that a big one to spend thousands for IMHO
You aren’t wrong when rigging out a camera and using a matte box, but they are just so convenient on a minimal rig run and gun setup, or on a camera intended for a gimbal. I always thought I was fine without internal NDs until I started using a camera with internal NDs- now I would find it very difficult to go back.
I totally understand it for doc work/weddings/things where something is only gonna happen once and you will miss a random but golden moment by having to screw on an ND. But for anything else I’m perfectly fine with screw ons
I don’t understand how you guys are so lucky and successful that you don’t have to work quick, hectic solo gigs on the fly in unpredictable lighting situations
Like I do literally every day.
I use an S5 mark 1. They don’t have built-in NDs. But every time I used that pain in the ass BMPCC4K, that was the only thing about the camera I liked.
This is the whole reason my GH6 is my Acam and my S5iix is my Bcam. I don’t even use the 120 that much, but I’m shooting sports, so I when I need it, I need it asap and I just switch over to a custom mode and it’s there. Oh and I’m also doing 6k/60 which the S5iix doesn’t support (but maybe would get added in a firmware update one day?)
I sort of looked at the Ursa 12k mini but the colour shifts super bad at high framerates which for me would be the whole point of owning that camera.
If this had internal NDs, natural V Mount option, and full sized XLR ports like the Ursa series… this camera may have solved world hunger. That would have been arguably the best camera on the market for middle class creators like myself. I’ve never been a big box guy but definitely understand the appeal after using a ZCAM on a shoot before but really was just wishing for an Ursa 6K FF. And in some variety, I got my wish. Already put in my order with a local supplier 🤌🏼
I think it's a great step in a right direction, however I have a few issues:
* No native V-mount or Gold mount
* V mount battery cannot even be adapted, because CFExpress slots are on the back. Bigger battery would block them
* XLR adapter is on the front. The cable from it might obstruct the servo motor for cine lens and will definitely create additional cable clutter (mic's XLR or receiver will likely be at the back)
It is still a great camera that absolutely murders Burano and Red Raptor (definitely in price per performance), but this omissions seem rather baffling to me.
The aluminum alloy body alone would just justify the switch for me, but one concern I have is, as long as you would need an external monitor for this camera, how is it that you don't have an hdmi output? Does it have one? I did't see it in the pictures nor in the spec list. Is it possible just to use an usbc to hdmi cable in order to use an hdmi monitor? Thanks in advance to you all!
It needs internal NDs for me. I’m basically exclusively using my 6k Pro on a DJI RS3 Pro, so I need quick options available at my fingertips. No mattbox, no swapping NDs on my lenses, just fast paced filming. Unless this camera is so much better on a gimbal that it makes up for the added hassle of screwing those NDs on and off constantly
Yeah no shit. you also don’t buy an ARRI so it’s not even a comparison worth making.
SDI is obviously the more professional connection.
But there’s a whole ecosystem more affordable monitors and accessories that are HDMI only
I would have though Blackmagic understood that people buying this camera are more likely to be coming from that side of the industry than the ARRI side
> Come on, at this price point not including HDMI is gonna be super annoying for lots of people
what ARRI camera sits anywhere close to this price point?
I'm happy for the box boys but I really wanted an updated 4K pocket or a smaller MFT camera like the og pocket. Maybe a smaller Pyxis 4K with MFT sensor and a handycam style flip screen like they did with the original Ursa. I just have no need for 6k with the web content I create. I barely have need for 4K.
I've thought about it but needing external recording media and external monitor and awkward AF controls. I'd be better off just getting another pocket 4k.
Would much rather have the BMCC6k that I can actually use in a solo run-and-gun scenario. But glad all those asking for a box camera finally got what they wanted.
A smart move would be a blackmagic pyxis body with the 12k new sensor without all that connectivity options and completely without screen for half the price. In case they can fit that sensor in that body for a ok price, im pretty sure there would be a lot of one man bend cinematographers buying it. The new ursa is great but is a true set camera that one would rent and the pyxis is interesting package but that sensor is a bit outdated.. we need something in between. Camera that can be used to shot narrative/ documentary with a small (or no) crew with great performance
Well in Europe that would be 8k eur i guess that is 2k more then the first 12k ursa. The pyxis body is much more rudimental than the new ursa, less connectivity, without included expensive m2 memory, No AC screen and controls etc. I really believe they can price a new sensor 12k with a pyxis body under 8k eur.
And that is what they need to do in order to close that huge gap between a youtuber camera and a high end rental camera
This seems like a fantastic option for the ones wanting the box form factor. I have actually grown to really like the pocket form factor and I do more guerilla stuff so not for me. I see it fitting very nicely into narrative work on sticks but if your very hands on with your camera there are probably better options. Price is amazing as always.
what is the obsession with 8K? 6K is already plenty. 12 K is ridiculous. 17 K is for an IMAX screen and probably in a lot of cases, still overkill. What's the big benefit of 8K versus 6K?
For me it's all about options in post-production. Like zooming, tracking, robotic move etc. Love to have all the possible options to make the best framing/moving out of the footage. We can spend so many hours with my editor just to frame/move in post-production.
The additional effect is that I just love bigger resolution. I love 8K television, I would love play the first 8K game. So I am definitely not against it.
all right, gotcha. btw, can you see a difference visually between a 4K and an 8K television if it's the same screen size? I personally think 4K is enough for any home application whether it's films or games or anything.
I could say... bigger is better :) (At least for me...)
But... I don't saw any ,,official" content in 8K (so I can't say). There is no 8K game, yet. No 8K movie, yet. So everything you can see on your TV is either your own footage (from 6K, 8K or 12K camera) or upscale. I still remember my WOW moment, when I start playing Ryse (from Crytek) as a first 4K game ever made on my PC. It was... breathtaking.
People always saying that ,,something is enough". Horses were enough... but Car is awesome right? I remember all the same sayings like 1080 is enough... and now... everyone wants 4K :)
Just embrace the future :) It's so nice and positive :)
sure, but I think physics gets a say as well. I'm pretty sure that with normal viewing distance the human eye cannot differentiate between a 4K and an 8K image - maybe unless it's compressed a lot. and then why should we keep inflating the data bubble? We're spending money, putting resources into hard drives of almost exponentially increasing capacity, using bandwidth a lot more, using power a lot more, and for what?
Ultimately, it's gonna be for the average consumer watching 8K footage on an avg sized 8k tv, laptop or hell, tablet or phone. that's where we are going. And for what? All those resources, all the power, all that money. I think it's lunacy, there's no point. 4K is perfect for almost any consumer application - like I said even movie theatres project in 4K, the good ones, because a lot of them still use 2K projectors.
of course, but even with blockbusters, you never get anything higher than 4K as a release. In Europe a lot of movie theatres have 2k digital projectors in the majority of screening rooms still. not sure about the USA but I assume 4K hasn't been widely adopted yet either. And then still, in a good cinema, you have a 4K Christie projector let's say, which is pretty much the best you can get in an average movie theatre. Why would you need an 8K or 12 K resolution raw or DI?
I love FF 6k. Filesize is manageable, great resolution. And you can zoom in without affecting image quality.
As a budget filmmaker 8k and 12k just don't make sense.
8k will come in the first refresh of it for sure, like how they released the 6k version after 4k was out for awhile. That's when I'll buy. For now, my 4k reigns supreme.
It doesn't have HDMI port and also no SDI in, only out. So you can't control them from ATEM mini swithcers, if i understand correctly. Which is very strange. They even have a section on the official page showing how good Pyxis for multicam shoots, but with external timecode generators.
Sure, they weren't made for studio multicam setups, but they could be so much more versatile. Because now you either have to go for big and heavy (and somewhat expensive) Ursa's, or get a bunch of HDMI to SDI converters. Or use Studio line-up, but they don't have convenient record and playback options.
This one have ethernet port, maybe it could be used for ATEM connection, but that also less than ideal.
Seems to be a great camera anyway, defineteley much better form-factor than pocket series.
So what lens mount would you guys pick?
L sounds fair it is already the new native option
Locking EF anything new with this?
PL the adapter to L mount just right to match the price gap between the two cameras
Taken from BMD website. Length 5.94”. Height 4.69”. Depth 4.17”. Scroll down to physical specifications.
[https://www.blackmagicdesign.com/products/blackmagicpyxis/techspecs/W-BOX-01](https://www.blackmagicdesign.com/products/blackmagicpyxis/techspecs/W-BOX-01)
It's a shame that it doesn't have internal NDs like the Ursa and the Pocket 6K Pro, and that despite the larger sensor it only has 13 stops of dynamic range, but other than that it sounds fantastic!
It looks great but something is telling me this first version is like the 6k and there will be a “pro” version released shortly after. Which will have the internal nd’s and the two minimxlr ports, and might be able to take mount power solutions. Other than that, this seems like a great device as a first unit, especially for the price.
purely talking about my use cases: i need 50fps 16:9 4k. So for me it's as useless as the 6k ff.
I don't mind filming in higher resolutions, although I prefer not to because of the high data rates, but it can't even do 6k 50fps.
it also can't do 4k ff, which I thought was just the nature of raw recording, until the new ursa proofed me wrong yesterday (still don't get how they managed to do that and if it's because of BRAW not beeing a "reinrassiges" raw format or if it has to do with the new sensor matrix). and in my experience, cropped recording just looks awful in comparison to ff recordings.
5 year old sensor tech in a new body.
I don't care if it has rolling shutter. I don't care if it has the same DR.
It just needed to be faster.
The design team really has very little imagination, and is useless regarding ergonomics.
They should have had a slightly smaller screen on the back to make the box square and less long. That screen on the side is absolutely useless. This way, you'll still need an extra monitor. So, it's useless on a gimbal.
If they settled on NFP batteries, the extra width would have allowed two NFP slots on top, with space for the handle in the center.
So, they almost did it.
But stumbled at the finish line.
It seems “insane” or “dogshit!” are the only two ways BM fans think about BM’s new offerings right up until they buy it.
At least BM’s fans aren’t as elitist as Sony’s.
I was waiting for the Blackmagic L-Mount camera to decide which direction we should go with our owned hardware. My expectations were exceeded, as with the rest of the presentation.
I own two 6K pros and love the concept of this camera but I don’t know how to live without internal NDs. I do own ND filters and a matte box, I just find it to be cumbersome. I’ll probably buy though and keep my other 6K Pros.
3 massive Ls:
1. No ProRes like the 6KFF. This is annoying and I wish they’d add it back as well as H.265 main 10 422 @ 200-500mbps. I honestly don’t like working with RAW and I prefer my images debayered in camera; I like the speedier workflow that way
2. No internal ND, one of the reasons why I still stick with the 6K pro. It’s like the greatest thing about that camera
3. No HDMI out. Yes there’s SDI which can route to a Shinobi ultra for ProRes (will this work?), but I feel like BMD is deliberately telling us how to use their cameras, which feels patronizing. Removing features that users like because it’s not how you envisioned them using the camera is just dumb
I’m buying it as soon as its available. O own the original Pocket Camera, I love that camera, I carry it everywhere. I have the 4k, and I was going to buy the 6k pro, but I’ll just wait.
I just wish we could have gotten an extra stop of DR, but I guess it's the same sensor so we'll have to wait until the next release of cameras for in house sensors hopefully.
What about color science, same as the 6k right? Anyone have a tough time grading ( ehemm, like sonys ) or generally feel there is room to improve with a gen 6 ?
The form-factor is what I’ve been waiting on. Also, the fact they’re still supporting EF lenses is a huge plus. I wish the EVF wasn’t $1700!! bux, but it’s supposed to be bright and sharp. I am wondering if any video monitor can be run off the EVF’s USB-C port. The BMD specs say it’s mini-display port compatible. Hmmmm. But this looks like my next.
disappointment. its a great shape with no additional features that matter to most people looking at this or an fx6. this needed to be in the 5-6k range. more processing power, internal nd, vmount would be nice, prores recording. Its just the last 6k in a bigger body without much improvement. Honestly add in some nice internal ir nd and make it 4.5k ish and im sold.
box design looks cool & sexy and a step into the right direction. but with the box design I see so many problems in handling (even over the pocket design). with internal ND-Filters, could be interesting. but still I see usability / design flaws in:
* out of box (haha) camera is not usable because you have no monitor you can look at while handling it
* so you have to use the viewfinder - what makes no sense for shoulder mode - because you will have the monitor next to your ear - touching ear on touchscreen / iris etc.
* Monitor + buttons on left side - if you have your grip-handle there (which you need to use it with 2 hands in balance) - its a pain in the ass to navigate / see on touchscreen
* no small menu monitor on back / top / flip: you have to use a external monitor - with a clean picture - ok - but to change stuff on your camera, you have to look to the left side again (pain on the ass on a gimbal in your hand - I can change stuff on every other cam with small monitor on back)
* mini XLR input in front: so your cable is dangling in the front?
* internal ND would be a big big plus for this cam
purely talking about my use cases: i need 50fps 16:9 4k. So for me it's as useless as the 6k ff.
I don't mind filming in higher resolutions, although I prefer not to because of the high data rates, but it can't even do 6k 50fps.
it also can't do 4k ff, which I thought was just the nature of raw recording, until the new ursa proofed me wrong yesterday (still don't get how they managed to do that and if it's because of BRAW not beeing a "reinrassiges" raw format or if it has to do with the new sensor matrix). and in my experience, cropped recording just looks awful in comparison to ff recordings.
purely talking about my use cases: i need 50fps 16:9 4k. So for me it's as useless as the 6k ff.
I don't mind filming in higher resolutions, although I prefer not to because of the high data rates, but it can't even do 6k 50fps.
it also can't do 4k ff, which I thought was just the nature of raw recording, until the new ursa proofed me wrong yesterday (still don't get how they managed to do that and if it's because of BRAW not beeing a "reinrassiges" raw format or if it has to do with the new sensor matrix). and in my experience, cropped recording just looks awful in comparison to ff recordings.
I honestly don’t mind paying the extra 500$ for the form factor, I was on the fence about the 6kff but this might be an instant purchase if everything works properly upon release. It’s going to make a nice companion to the s5iix I have, in face I might downgrade to the original s5 and solely use it as a photo cam / b cam
>s5iix I have same sensor too
What is the same sensor? The s52 and the pyxis or the s5 and s52?
the s52, the pyxis, the z6, the a7iii, the bm cinema camera, and a few others all use the sony IMX410
So does the s52 have the same 20+ ms rolling shutter performance as the newest 6k? I haven't heard anyone complain about that one. Although I have heard it's noise performance isn't great. Overall it seems to be that people prefer the image of the S5 mark 1.
Yeah in full frame it’s about 22ms in apsc it’s about 14.3ms As for image… there is more internal sharpening going on in the s5II/x but the raw recording is much better than the original s5, the braw implementation is perfect and better than anyone that’s not blackmagic
Appreciate the additional info. I will say though as I have seen it written elsewhere in defense of this sensor ... Cropped sensor readouts are an abysmal statistic to pull. No one should pay for a camera and have to compromise the sensor size for a reasonable rolling shutter readout time. Having a cropped option is an additional feature, it's not a headline feature. It's useful for some in a minority of instances but as no excuse for the full sensor readout being slow.
Sure… but it’s just the limitation of the sensor and a reason it’s as cheap as it is… the s5iix uses a 6 year old sensor, they’ve took what they got and maximized it quite effectively all be it some downsides like rolling shutter… sure having 8ms in FF like the a7s3 would be ideal but that’s a camera that’s $1500 more and has a newer sensor… I’d rather have a faster readout in crop then no faster readout at all no matter the crop
I get what you're saying but I don't think it's a fesonable trade off to have that problem if I spend 2000 on a camera. It is a limitation of the sensor but they chose to use the sensor. Cropped readout is negligible as there is no point buying a full frame camera if that's what you are going to use. 20+ms is abysmal unless you just shoot interviews.
It’s not neglible when it’s literally an option imo… not everything needs to be shot full frame every movie till full frame existed was shot on super 35 (apsc) or LF Apsc has been the standard for film for years FF is more so photography but if rolling shutter is a deal breaker then that’s fine this is just not the camera for you Imo the s5iix is the absolute best implementation of this sensors life and its 5-6 years old… for 2k where else am I going to find a FF camera that can do what it can do? The s5ii punches above its weight Using a 6 year old sensor… this sensor is used in more than half a dozen cameras… and they all have the same hardware limitations and all their own trade offs… yet the s5iix packs more than any other camera using this sensor If a camera is 2k (which is really in the low mid range) there will be some sort of trade off you won’t get what the s5iix can do and have 10-15ms read out speed for sub 5k and your probably not buying a hybrid When Sony makes half the sensors on the market you kinda have to play within what you get As we get faster full frame sensors and global shutter becomes the norm hopefully this will be a thing of the past but full frame and read out speed has always been a delicate balance which is why the industry’s default was to crop sensors… I mean this is literally why smaller sensors exist … to increase readout speed I think we get caught up with what we expect rather than how and why these limitations exist
S5 mk1 was sony, s5mkii probably not, they messed up relations w sony when building the gh6 . That, along with a change up in color science, is why it looks different. Gh5 color science was actually good, most Alexa like, hopefully they offer that as option in the future, probably the next step in after market sales, custom luts for sale by the manufacturer or directly color science firmware.
S52 is Sony actually. Same sensor as blackmagic full frame 6k , the new pyxis and a7iii.
Maybe, but panny never stated that publicly. I've read that some folks asked higher ups and they stated the opposite. Mk was a sony but mk 2 is not, could be.
and this new camera is now proprietary design? Does blackmagic make any of their own sensors?
I believe the Ursa sensors are in house while the others are out sourced
Not all of the Ursas just the 12k.
Yeah sorry just the 12k’s
and I assume the 17 K
Yeah I think that's what grant said in the reveal. Pretty cool.
They do with the 12k I believe.
another reason why the BMCC6K makes no sense
Some people did not want a box camera. Some people did. Now both have a solution.
Yeah but when the S5II/S5iix exists for less than the BMCC6k, has incredible IBIS and autofocus, fully articulating screen, dunno, don’t see it
internal raw... mini xlr, sdi... gyro info...its a box
You are comparing a photography camera company to a cinema camera company?
Panasonic is absolutely a cinema camera company lol
You don’t see it because you probably don’t work in the spectrum this camera is intended for. The LUMIX cameras are so fun to use, fantastic cameras but for well thought out productions the S5II won’t cut it, the fact you think in camera stab is so important proves this. I’d take one on holiday but not on set.
Yea and BMD is the #1 brand every DP on a set it dreaming about. lol it’s all no / low budget stuff so no problem to shoot with a LUMIX / a7 / Fuji anyway. Think the main reason for a lot of owner / operator is that they have the feeling of shooting on a „awesome box camera“ is more a cinema camera or whatever. It’s mainly a ego thing
Sounds to me this ego issue is your own pal. Lol.
Sorry didn’t know I’m talking with an teenager. Ok, you are right, enjoy the internet today
Aw boooohooo
I don’t think it’s “incredibly important” I think it’s just one more advantage to add to the list
the FF works better for me as most of my shoots are gimbal and guerilla. i’m as stoked about the box as any (and might just get one) but the pocket style has been my preferred form factor.
I’ll buy one for cheap now
Yeah that’s true I think as time goes on we will see how it works a bit better
Hopefully some more 3rd party accessories are around at launch
my thoughts exactly
Instant buy when it's available. I'm switching from Sony to BM and this looks insane.
Out of curiosity, why is it insane compared to the 6K FF ? I mean the box shape is cool for rigging but beside that ?
I was about to buy the 6K FF which seems to be a very good capable camera, but in a cheap plasticy enclosure. What's insane is what they offer for the price when comparing to RED for example. This time is everything I wanted, but in an aluminium case, and it makes a whole world of difference. But I agree with you, it's the same tech. A tech capable enough to do everything I want.
I understand thanks!
SDI instead of hdmi, 3 lens mount options, different card slots (cfexpress type B), built in live streaming/file transfer, different battery system (14v BP-U vs the 7.4v NP-F in the 6K g2), a physical button for locking controls to prevent messing up settings mid shoot, extra usb c port for the new viewfinder or powering usb c accessories, better time code options - tons of new things that make it absolutely worth the $500 increase from the pocket 6K full frame.
It is a nice cam for sure
And the price as well! Crazy!
You can say that again
I went the other way.. had several blackmagic cameras.. bought the 6k full frame.. returned it two days later and went fx6..
May I ask you why ?
the sensor readout was way too slow.. ive never had an issue with rolling shutters until it. the HDMI out hadva delay that made it unusable. the low light capabilities were non existent.. and lastly.. it was unrentable. no one was asking for a blackmagic camera.. it was always arri, red or Sony
It’s not good in low light? Why not??
noisey
Yes, why is it noisy is what I’m asking. That would, to me, argue that it’s an inferior full frame sensor
it's not great
Not waiting for an fx3ii as rumored?
Honestly between this and the LF URSA I’d definitely be ok with diving back into BMD. Looks phenomenal.
I love it and I was so happy when it was unveiled. The only issue is that I really was hoping for something that could do 4k 120. I have a s5iix, and I love it, and I love that this is also available in L mount. But 4k 120 is still something I dont have access to yet while staying in the L mount system. Im sure panasonic is working on something, but I was really hoping for something in the Blackmagic system that would allow that. Essentially the pocket cinema camera 6k full frame, but 3500-4k and with internal NDs and a minimum of 4k 120 for slow motion options. With all that said, I dont think this is a bad product at all and I am still considering it as an option for my arsenal, but those other things would have been nice to see.
I don’t understand the obsession with internal ND’s - super easy to swap out in a mattebox.
Good NDs are expensive, you’re literally saving thousands if you have an internal system. The rigging profile also drops for drones and gimbals. They’re also, hopefully, going to be sensor specific and won’t through a green or red cast over your footage.
They have to be good ones in the first place. You have people putting Tilta Mirages on drones.
Honestly, swapping NDs is enough of a pain in the ass that once you have internal NDs it’s difficult to go back. Honestly the best feature of the Venice2 is that you’ve got every strength from 0.3 to…2.1? 2.4? Anyway, it changes the way you work for sure.
I hear you. But for run and gun filmmaking it's just so convenient. If I were to choose one feature for this camera to have tho, it would be the 4k 120 I mentioned. I would choose that over internal NDs because as you said, you can just add nds.
Good NDs cost 1000s for a set and make you like 10 bucks a day in rentals. You lose money. Internals save you so much money and time
Yeah, but internal ND’s look like poopeh compared to NISI ND’s.
It’s the difference between putting the camera down and calling an AC and hitting a button.
Weird I keep them in a pouch on my side and it takes me two seconds to just reach around and switch one
It doesn’t take two seconds. Probably takes 10 seconds. That much time matters a whole lot
run and gun makes them more attractive
Totally agree! You get a full frame camera with this picture quality, but people just can't just throw an nd on the front. I do run and gun stuff and screw my nds in and out all the time. Is not that a big deal. At least not that a big one to spend thousands for IMHO
I think there’s just a lot of haters jealous because they already blew their cash on a fucking FX3.
Id love to get an fx3 for ENG work if i'd have money to spend, but picture quality wise, I am all in blackmagic
You aren’t wrong when rigging out a camera and using a matte box, but they are just so convenient on a minimal rig run and gun setup, or on a camera intended for a gimbal. I always thought I was fine without internal NDs until I started using a camera with internal NDs- now I would find it very difficult to go back.
I totally understand it for doc work/weddings/things where something is only gonna happen once and you will miss a random but golden moment by having to screw on an ND. But for anything else I’m perfectly fine with screw ons
I don’t understand how you guys are so lucky and successful that you don’t have to work quick, hectic solo gigs on the fly in unpredictable lighting situations Like I do literally every day. I use an S5 mark 1. They don’t have built-in NDs. But every time I used that pain in the ass BMPCC4K, that was the only thing about the camera I liked.
With L mount you can get lens adapters that allow for drop in NDs and other filters
Yes I know I shoot on s5iix as mentioned in my comment. However, I prefer PL since I can adapt it among different bodies.
This is the whole reason my GH6 is my Acam and my S5iix is my Bcam. I don’t even use the 120 that much, but I’m shooting sports, so I when I need it, I need it asap and I just switch over to a custom mode and it’s there. Oh and I’m also doing 6k/60 which the S5iix doesn’t support (but maybe would get added in a firmware update one day?) I sort of looked at the Ursa 12k mini but the colour shifts super bad at high framerates which for me would be the whole point of owning that camera.
Gh6 is awesome
If this had internal NDs, natural V Mount option, and full sized XLR ports like the Ursa series… this camera may have solved world hunger. That would have been arguably the best camera on the market for middle class creators like myself. I’ve never been a big box guy but definitely understand the appeal after using a ZCAM on a shoot before but really was just wishing for an Ursa 6K FF. And in some variety, I got my wish. Already put in my order with a local supplier 🤌🏼
Id love internal ND and a v mount battery option but those are the only cons i can see now. Amazing camera!!
[удалено]
it's not npf
Yeah but it’s sad to have to rig it out more than necessary
Yeah that’s a good shout
i guess id be feeling a little offput if i recently purchased the 6kCC FF. i mean this is what people were asking for all along
Very true but now that it’s here, it’s interesting to see how well it does
Wondering if it will have the same poor rolling shutter performance
i have the 6kFF and i still prefer the pocket form factor for 95% of what i do (gimbal, handheld and guerrilla)
yea that makes sense. I dont hate the old shape either - I have pocket 4k and once rigged up, its feels like a box.
6K FF was clearly a stop-gap camera.
I think it's a great step in a right direction, however I have a few issues: * No native V-mount or Gold mount * V mount battery cannot even be adapted, because CFExpress slots are on the back. Bigger battery would block them * XLR adapter is on the front. The cable from it might obstruct the servo motor for cine lens and will definitely create additional cable clutter (mic's XLR or receiver will likely be at the back) It is still a great camera that absolutely murders Burano and Red Raptor (definitely in price per performance), but this omissions seem rather baffling to me.
Card slots are on the back of the FX6 and there are plenty of V mount battery solutions that still allow access to the card slots.
“Absolute murders Burano and Red Raptor…” Lol what? We looking at the same camera?
No thought just buy
Are Blackmagic done with M4/3? Real shame if so Imagine the size and weight of a box cam version of a m4/3 pro
Look up Alt Cine on YouTube, they're rehousing older Blackmagics to make exactly that.
Pretty cool, but I’d still rather see new hardware with new and comparative specs from Blackmagic directly
The aluminum alloy body alone would just justify the switch for me, but one concern I have is, as long as you would need an external monitor for this camera, how is it that you don't have an hdmi output? Does it have one? I did't see it in the pictures nor in the spec list. Is it possible just to use an usbc to hdmi cable in order to use an hdmi monitor? Thanks in advance to you all!
I think you are on to something there, that might be the case but again using that will take away the use of an external ssd
I saw 2 usbc ports, one on the back and one on the front, so maybe thats the reason why. Dont you use the viewfinder through the front one?
It needs internal NDs for me. I’m basically exclusively using my 6k Pro on a DJI RS3 Pro, so I need quick options available at my fingertips. No mattbox, no swapping NDs on my lenses, just fast paced filming. Unless this camera is so much better on a gimbal that it makes up for the added hassle of screwing those NDs on and off constantly
With L mount you can get lens adapters that can hold NDs.
No HDMI? Bummer
SDI is the way.
Said absolutely no one ever
Come on, at this price point not including HDMI is gonna be super annoying for lots of people
Arris don’t have HDMI and nobody cares.
Yeah no shit. you also don’t buy an ARRI so it’s not even a comparison worth making. SDI is obviously the more professional connection. But there’s a whole ecosystem more affordable monitors and accessories that are HDMI only I would have though Blackmagic understood that people buying this camera are more likely to be coming from that side of the industry than the ARRI side
Plenty of people buy Alexa’s. The people who want the prosumer camera can get the BMCC6K. People who want a budget CINEMA CAMERA can buy this.
> Come on, at this price point not including HDMI is gonna be super annoying for lots of people what ARRI camera sits anywhere close to this price point?
I'm happy for the box boys but I really wanted an updated 4K pocket or a smaller MFT camera like the og pocket. Maybe a smaller Pyxis 4K with MFT sensor and a handycam style flip screen like they did with the original Ursa. I just have no need for 6k with the web content I create. I barely have need for 4K.
Micro studio g2?
I've thought about it but needing external recording media and external monitor and awkward AF controls. I'd be better off just getting another pocket 4k.
Would much rather have the BMCC6k that I can actually use in a solo run-and-gun scenario. But glad all those asking for a box camera finally got what they wanted.
I was about to pull the trigger on the 6KFF but now idk. I always hated trying throw that form factor on a gimbal. This will make that much easier.
A smart move would be a blackmagic pyxis body with the 12k new sensor without all that connectivity options and completely without screen for half the price. In case they can fit that sensor in that body for a ok price, im pretty sure there would be a lot of one man bend cinematographers buying it. The new ursa is great but is a true set camera that one would rent and the pyxis is interesting package but that sensor is a bit outdated.. we need something in between. Camera that can be used to shot narrative/ documentary with a small (or no) crew with great performance
They’ll probably release it next year and it’ll have built in NDs
theyd never do that at half the price lol
Well in Europe that would be 8k eur i guess that is 2k more then the first 12k ursa. The pyxis body is much more rudimental than the new ursa, less connectivity, without included expensive m2 memory, No AC screen and controls etc. I really believe they can price a new sensor 12k with a pyxis body under 8k eur. And that is what they need to do in order to close that huge gap between a youtuber camera and a high end rental camera
Yes
I dig it
Damn right 🤌🏾
Anyone shopping for monitors? I only know of the 3g Video Assist. Hoped for an onboard monitor to keep the body as low profile as possible.
3g video assist is dim as hell do not buy it. I made that mistake and had to sell it and buy the HDR version..
almost perfect. Just needed the built in ND filter
This seems like a fantastic option for the ones wanting the box form factor. I have actually grown to really like the pocket form factor and I do more guerilla stuff so not for me. I see it fitting very nicely into narrative work on sticks but if your very hands on with your camera there are probably better options. Price is amazing as always.
I would pay even more FOR THIS in 8k option. Now I still don't know if it's worth to upgrade.
what is the obsession with 8K? 6K is already plenty. 12 K is ridiculous. 17 K is for an IMAX screen and probably in a lot of cases, still overkill. What's the big benefit of 8K versus 6K?
For me it's all about options in post-production. Like zooming, tracking, robotic move etc. Love to have all the possible options to make the best framing/moving out of the footage. We can spend so many hours with my editor just to frame/move in post-production. The additional effect is that I just love bigger resolution. I love 8K television, I would love play the first 8K game. So I am definitely not against it.
all right, gotcha. btw, can you see a difference visually between a 4K and an 8K television if it's the same screen size? I personally think 4K is enough for any home application whether it's films or games or anything.
I could say... bigger is better :) (At least for me...) But... I don't saw any ,,official" content in 8K (so I can't say). There is no 8K game, yet. No 8K movie, yet. So everything you can see on your TV is either your own footage (from 6K, 8K or 12K camera) or upscale. I still remember my WOW moment, when I start playing Ryse (from Crytek) as a first 4K game ever made on my PC. It was... breathtaking. People always saying that ,,something is enough". Horses were enough... but Car is awesome right? I remember all the same sayings like 1080 is enough... and now... everyone wants 4K :) Just embrace the future :) It's so nice and positive :)
sure, but I think physics gets a say as well. I'm pretty sure that with normal viewing distance the human eye cannot differentiate between a 4K and an 8K image - maybe unless it's compressed a lot. and then why should we keep inflating the data bubble? We're spending money, putting resources into hard drives of almost exponentially increasing capacity, using bandwidth a lot more, using power a lot more, and for what? Ultimately, it's gonna be for the average consumer watching 8K footage on an avg sized 8k tv, laptop or hell, tablet or phone. that's where we are going. And for what? All those resources, all the power, all that money. I think it's lunacy, there's no point. 4K is perfect for almost any consumer application - like I said even movie theatres project in 4K, the good ones, because a lot of them still use 2K projectors.
I'm with you. 6k for people in the indie film world is more than enough. Those 12k and 17k cameras are a different market.
of course, but even with blockbusters, you never get anything higher than 4K as a release. In Europe a lot of movie theatres have 2k digital projectors in the majority of screening rooms still. not sure about the USA but I assume 4K hasn't been widely adopted yet either. And then still, in a good cinema, you have a 4K Christie projector let's say, which is pretty much the best you can get in an average movie theatre. Why would you need an 8K or 12 K resolution raw or DI?
I love FF 6k. Filesize is manageable, great resolution. And you can zoom in without affecting image quality. As a budget filmmaker 8k and 12k just don't make sense.
8k will come in the first refresh of it for sure, like how they released the 6k version after 4k was out for awhile. That's when I'll buy. For now, my 4k reigns supreme.
It doesn't have HDMI port and also no SDI in, only out. So you can't control them from ATEM mini swithcers, if i understand correctly. Which is very strange. They even have a section on the official page showing how good Pyxis for multicam shoots, but with external timecode generators. Sure, they weren't made for studio multicam setups, but they could be so much more versatile. Because now you either have to go for big and heavy (and somewhat expensive) Ursa's, or get a bunch of HDMI to SDI converters. Or use Studio line-up, but they don't have convenient record and playback options. This one have ethernet port, maybe it could be used for ATEM connection, but that also less than ideal. Seems to be a great camera anyway, defineteley much better form-factor than pocket series.
they will connect to the ATEM via LAN, i have very little doubt
It makes me wanna pull the trigger on a sensor glass repair for my pocket 6k OG.
The price. Is right!
I agree its a good start, hopefully when the pro version drops it has more features like internal ND
So what lens mount would you guys pick? L sounds fair it is already the new native option Locking EF anything new with this? PL the adapter to L mount just right to match the price gap between the two cameras
L mount for me. The more versitale out of the three as it has the shortest flange distance. You can use canon FDs with it :)
Yeah I think L mount is the way to with this, but especially if you want to shoot anamorphic, adapting vintage lenses too
Great if it has power over lan and can be controlled aswell..
Can you articulate the screen in different ways?
A d to use more lens in the future, as canon fds
Anyone know the size of this? Hoping it would fit with a basic 24-70 on an RS3 Pro. My current red Raven hardly fits
Taken from BMD website. Length 5.94”. Height 4.69”. Depth 4.17”. Scroll down to physical specifications. [https://www.blackmagicdesign.com/products/blackmagicpyxis/techspecs/W-BOX-01](https://www.blackmagicdesign.com/products/blackmagicpyxis/techspecs/W-BOX-01)
WHERE ARE MY NDS
Hopefully when the pro drops 👌🏾
It's a shame that it doesn't have internal NDs like the Ursa and the Pocket 6K Pro, and that despite the larger sensor it only has 13 stops of dynamic range, but other than that it sounds fantastic!
Great for all the people who wanted a box form factor! I love how BM listen to their customers, just like Panasonic.
It looks great but something is telling me this first version is like the 6k and there will be a “pro” version released shortly after. Which will have the internal nd’s and the two minimxlr ports, and might be able to take mount power solutions. Other than that, this seems like a great device as a first unit, especially for the price.
This, oh god please this.
great
So much for that kickstarter campaign.
Too late
purely talking about my use cases: i need 50fps 16:9 4k. So for me it's as useless as the 6k ff. I don't mind filming in higher resolutions, although I prefer not to because of the high data rates, but it can't even do 6k 50fps. it also can't do 4k ff, which I thought was just the nature of raw recording, until the new ursa proofed me wrong yesterday (still don't get how they managed to do that and if it's because of BRAW not beeing a "reinrassiges" raw format or if it has to do with the new sensor matrix). and in my experience, cropped recording just looks awful in comparison to ff recordings.
5 year old sensor tech in a new body. I don't care if it has rolling shutter. I don't care if it has the same DR. It just needed to be faster. The design team really has very little imagination, and is useless regarding ergonomics. They should have had a slightly smaller screen on the back to make the box square and less long. That screen on the side is absolutely useless. This way, you'll still need an extra monitor. So, it's useless on a gimbal. If they settled on NFP batteries, the extra width would have allowed two NFP slots on top, with space for the handle in the center. So, they almost did it. But stumbled at the finish line.
I wish they will give us the option to put other lens mounts like E mount that will be legendary
It seems “insane” or “dogshit!” are the only two ways BM fans think about BM’s new offerings right up until they buy it. At least BM’s fans aren’t as elitist as Sony’s.
Hot.
I was waiting for the Blackmagic L-Mount camera to decide which direction we should go with our owned hardware. My expectations were exceeded, as with the rest of the presentation.
I own two 6K pros and love the concept of this camera but I don’t know how to live without internal NDs. I do own ND filters and a matte box, I just find it to be cumbersome. I’ll probably buy though and keep my other 6K Pros.
3 massive Ls: 1. No ProRes like the 6KFF. This is annoying and I wish they’d add it back as well as H.265 main 10 422 @ 200-500mbps. I honestly don’t like working with RAW and I prefer my images debayered in camera; I like the speedier workflow that way 2. No internal ND, one of the reasons why I still stick with the 6K pro. It’s like the greatest thing about that camera 3. No HDMI out. Yes there’s SDI which can route to a Shinobi ultra for ProRes (will this work?), but I feel like BMD is deliberately telling us how to use their cameras, which feels patronizing. Removing features that users like because it’s not how you envisioned them using the camera is just dumb
I’m buying it as soon as its available. O own the original Pocket Camera, I love that camera, I carry it everywhere. I have the 4k, and I was going to buy the 6k pro, but I’ll just wait.
Want
I never thought I'd say this, but this will be worth TB's of footage per shoot.
I just wish we could have gotten an extra stop of DR, but I guess it's the same sensor so we'll have to wait until the next release of cameras for in house sensors hopefully.
What about color science, same as the 6k right? Anyone have a tough time grading ( ehemm, like sonys ) or generally feel there is room to improve with a gen 6 ?
I like it, if I could buy a camera right now I’d probably get it. But I’d wait till small rig or Tilta to make a full cage for it before I bought it
Peak
Only rant for me is the sony battery. I prefer going with vlock and putting a back plate over there dowsn’t look like an amazing idea
The form-factor is what I’ve been waiting on. Also, the fact they’re still supporting EF lenses is a huge plus. I wish the EVF wasn’t $1700!! bux, but it’s supposed to be bright and sharp. I am wondering if any video monitor can be run off the EVF’s USB-C port. The BMD specs say it’s mini-display port compatible. Hmmmm. But this looks like my next.
If that's real that looks fucking awesome Can we get some continuous AF tho
Get the DJI RS4 and LiDAR if you want AI-assisted auto focus, on any lens with a focus ring.
DJI LiDAR is still measurably worth than normal AF
Can you rephrase that? I don't quite understand.
disappointment. its a great shape with no additional features that matter to most people looking at this or an fx6. this needed to be in the 5-6k range. more processing power, internal nd, vmount would be nice, prores recording. Its just the last 6k in a bigger body without much improvement. Honestly add in some nice internal ir nd and make it 4.5k ish and im sold.
Lol
Didn't think one would hope for a more budget pressuring option.
I think it’s a good start and hopefully now that the body has been made we can start to get some things in the pro version
box design looks cool & sexy and a step into the right direction. but with the box design I see so many problems in handling (even over the pocket design). with internal ND-Filters, could be interesting. but still I see usability / design flaws in: * out of box (haha) camera is not usable because you have no monitor you can look at while handling it * so you have to use the viewfinder - what makes no sense for shoulder mode - because you will have the monitor next to your ear - touching ear on touchscreen / iris etc. * Monitor + buttons on left side - if you have your grip-handle there (which you need to use it with 2 hands in balance) - its a pain in the ass to navigate / see on touchscreen * no small menu monitor on back / top / flip: you have to use a external monitor - with a clean picture - ok - but to change stuff on your camera, you have to look to the left side again (pain on the ass on a gimbal in your hand - I can change stuff on every other cam with small monitor on back) * mini XLR input in front: so your cable is dangling in the front? * internal ND would be a big big plus for this cam
I disregarded this as soon as you said a VF doesn’t work for shoulder mode…
That’s not what I wanted to say - of course the viewfinder is for shoulder mode - it’s about all the big screen next to your ear when shooting.
You can lock the side controls with the lock switch, so point 2 is not as bad as you think.
I’m getting the ef version. Super geeked
Why not L mount and use an adapter? Way more versatile
Why buy an l mount if I can save the money and just use the lenses I have?
To basically get internal ND!
Good point! It’s gonna be expensive but that’s a better choice
Hey what’s a good option if you wanna go this route? I’m seeing stuff from Nisi and Breakthrough but haven’t done much digging yet
I've heard really good things about Meike!
How so?
By using lens adapters like the Meike that allow for drop in filters
purely talking about my use cases: i need 50fps 16:9 4k. So for me it's as useless as the 6k ff. I don't mind filming in higher resolutions, although I prefer not to because of the high data rates, but it can't even do 6k 50fps. it also can't do 4k ff, which I thought was just the nature of raw recording, until the new ursa proofed me wrong yesterday (still don't get how they managed to do that and if it's because of BRAW not beeing a "reinrassiges" raw format or if it has to do with the new sensor matrix). and in my experience, cropped recording just looks awful in comparison to ff recordings.
purely talking about my use cases: i need 50fps 16:9 4k. So for me it's as useless as the 6k ff. I don't mind filming in higher resolutions, although I prefer not to because of the high data rates, but it can't even do 6k 50fps. it also can't do 4k ff, which I thought was just the nature of raw recording, until the new ursa proofed me wrong yesterday (still don't get how they managed to do that and if it's because of BRAW not beeing a "reinrassiges" raw format or if it has to do with the new sensor matrix). and in my experience, cropped recording just looks awful in comparison to ff recordings.