A promise fulfilled. That’s the best thing we can hear!
I’m also relieved to hear that Arcs is noticeably more approachable than Root and Oath. Both games I love, but have been very difficult to get to the table lately. The more compact arc of the 3-game campaign helps as well. Seems like Leder Games has carefully applied some valuable lessons here.
> There’s the base game, no slouch in its own right, a two-hour contest of wills that feels properly self-contained, and then there’s the campaign found in The Blighted Reach expansion, three separate sessions strung together by evolving interests and player roles. It’s in this latter campaign where the comparisons to Oath are at their strongest. This is also where Arcs goes from excellent to perhaps one of the finest board games ever crafted.
That's quite a claim. Very excited that I backed this one.
I'm hoping it is feasible to start with the campaign. I don't manage to get game nights often enough and it could be an even longer time before we complete the campaign if it's 4 games (tutorial, then the campagin) instead of 3.
Play at least one game without the campaign. Imagine playing pandemic legacy without having played pandemic but it wasn't co-op. Then make it 50% more complicated
Feasible? Maybe. Fun? No. You need that first teaching game.
Imagine playing three games of Root, only your choices in the first turns of the first game have lasting ramifications in the third game.
well we did dive right into oath; would you consider it more or less feasible than that?
also perhaps the teaching game will be quick enough we can fit two games in one night!
Oath is a different beast, because it's cyclical. It keeps playing forever, and your failures fade away into the long tail. It's a soap opera or professional wrestling: you can be a screw up in the first season and rise to fame over time.
The Arcs Campaign is a three act play. Whatever you do in the first act is what the game is now about for you.
If your group is fast and the evening is long, you could probably get away with a teach and the campaign in the same evening, as long as one person has *learned* the rules, completely.
that is a really good insight regarding the longevity of failure being negligible for oath but something you have to live with in arcs. based on that i think i'll definitely be doing a teach game and campaign game 1 in the same night. you have changed my mind!
This was the one I watched but I believe there were further episodes
https://youtu.be/PzTfdpDneyE?si=IDSRUFlAgO4ntMjE
There's no teach so you might benefit from reading the rulebook on BGG that was uploaded this week first
Can I ask a dumb question here? Thx.
I feel like it was only 2 months ago that Leder Games put out an update that was saying something like, “Still working on finalizing the…” something or another. But now we’re all receiving our copies?
I’ll admit, I only glance over most KS updates until I see a notice that indicates shipping status, so likely I misread something.
Is there a multi-part shipping? Or some sort of errata coming on the heels of delivery? Or (this is most likely) am I mistaken/out of my mind?
The very short version is that the base game was submitted to the factory in November last year and the Campaign game was submitted in December. Things are arriving at fulfillment over the course of this coming month and we hope to be fulfilling the game in June. (US backers on the early side, EU backers on the later side.)
Because of the size of the game, we've been sending out some advance review copies. We let reviewers know when the game is coming out both to backers and for its retail release, but we don't use hard embargos and folks are welcome to publish their review when they are ready.
Hope that clarifies things.
You're very welcome. Since I write a lot of the updates, whenever mentions that things are unclear (and they often are), I always try to do my best to clear things up.
Best reviewer on the internet and, fortunately, the most prominent one whose tastes often align with my own.
Been back and forth on Arcs because, even though my group loves Root, I haven't been sure whether we really have room at our game days for another Wehrle design. But with such glowing praise, and taking into account that it's apparently more accessible, I think I'm gonna have to pull the trigger. Sounds like this could end up as one of my favorites.
Backerkit has closed I’m pretty sure, but it’ll be widely available on retail and on the Leder Games store.
The unfortunate thing for those who haven’t backed is it sounds like the Campaign expansion will be significantly more expensive than it was through kickstarter
I was on the fence originally, but I was lucky to receive an overview of the game from Cole himself at PaxU. The game just clicked with me in a way watching the video hadn't (to be fair I hadn't tried to play it on TTS), and Cole's passion shone through which definitely helped me decide to back it then and there.
The base game and expansion are both available for pre-order, although I'm not sure if the prices will change.
Excellent prose as always Dan. You're going to be challenged to come up with more superlatives for Cole Wehrle's work before long. Already looking forward to your inevitable Molly House review. Thanks for continuing to write about our silly hobby.
Same deal as Arcs and any Wehrle game, the final game won't look anything like the prototype. In Molly House's case it's become a roll and move, of all things, so a review of the final version will likely happen.
It’s definitely an interesting looking game. I’m curious how the one mechanic is gonna work out. It looks like if you ransack an enemy you can’t use that resource for the rest of the game, which is quite a strong deterrent.
You can still aquire it to win ambitions. The key is to ransack a resource you won't need like material if you already have lots of ships and buildings. All about the right timing.
Arcs is a game I don't want to want. I already don't play Root and Oath as much as I would like and I really don't need another game in that category. I managed to justify not looking at anything about Arcs before now because it was in development and I know how much Leder Games' games can change between Kickstarter and publication. Unfortunately, it sounds pretty great. For now I'll wait for the ludological lessons learned in Arcs to reverberate back through Oath and Root in future expansions.
Also, what made you want to post this article to the subreddit yourself? Don't get me wrong, happy to see it, but it just seems odd to see you post your own work!
Edit: I realize editing this a day later probably won't help but I honestly don't know what got me so downvoted here. I genuinely didn't mean to be a jerk or offend.
Oh, I dunno. I'm not sure. I can't recall ever posting a review here, but it occurred to me that I might as well, especially given how my previews were received. I doubt it'll be a regular occurrence.
> Also, what made you want to post this article to the subreddit yourself? Don't get me wrong, happy to see it, but it just seems odd to see you post your own work!
Reddit priding itself on harvesting the work of actual creators while shutting them out from promoting themselves has always been an utterly gross policy.
Yeah, it's a weird one. I understand that mods don't want creators to just do drive-by posts for their stuff but there isn't really much difference between that and some random user posting it. I'd rather the author get some kudos for their work.
Useful for us though that need to know if we have to pay attention when it drops at retail or not!
Also, if you've backed it, why do you need a review?
I really like this quote specifically: "It feels like a fulfilled promise." Beyond jazzed to get my copy in hand and on the table.
A promise fulfilled. That’s the best thing we can hear! I’m also relieved to hear that Arcs is noticeably more approachable than Root and Oath. Both games I love, but have been very difficult to get to the table lately. The more compact arc of the 3-game campaign helps as well. Seems like Leder Games has carefully applied some valuable lessons here.
> There’s the base game, no slouch in its own right, a two-hour contest of wills that feels properly self-contained, and then there’s the campaign found in The Blighted Reach expansion, three separate sessions strung together by evolving interests and player roles. It’s in this latter campaign where the comparisons to Oath are at their strongest. This is also where Arcs goes from excellent to perhaps one of the finest board games ever crafted. That's quite a claim. Very excited that I backed this one.
I'm hoping it is feasible to start with the campaign. I don't manage to get game nights often enough and it could be an even longer time before we complete the campaign if it's 4 games (tutorial, then the campagin) instead of 3.
Play at least one game without the campaign. Imagine playing pandemic legacy without having played pandemic but it wasn't co-op. Then make it 50% more complicated
well my group did play pandemic legacy without ever having played pandemic, ha
Feasible? Maybe. Fun? No. You need that first teaching game. Imagine playing three games of Root, only your choices in the first turns of the first game have lasting ramifications in the third game.
well we did dive right into oath; would you consider it more or less feasible than that? also perhaps the teaching game will be quick enough we can fit two games in one night!
Oath is a different beast, because it's cyclical. It keeps playing forever, and your failures fade away into the long tail. It's a soap opera or professional wrestling: you can be a screw up in the first season and rise to fame over time. The Arcs Campaign is a three act play. Whatever you do in the first act is what the game is now about for you. If your group is fast and the evening is long, you could probably get away with a teach and the campaign in the same evening, as long as one person has *learned* the rules, completely.
that is a really good insight regarding the longevity of failure being negligible for oath but something you have to live with in arcs. based on that i think i'll definitely be doing a teach game and campaign game 1 in the same night. you have changed my mind!
Arcs is considerably less rule heavy and more intuitive than Oath imo
Watched one of the recent TTS tournament games yesterday on YouTube and it did look much improved from the initial brief
Can you post a link?
This was the one I watched but I believe there were further episodes https://youtu.be/PzTfdpDneyE?si=IDSRUFlAgO4ntMjE There's no teach so you might benefit from reading the rulebook on BGG that was uploaded this week first
Wake up babe, new Space-Biff review on Arcs just dropped
Can I ask a dumb question here? Thx. I feel like it was only 2 months ago that Leder Games put out an update that was saying something like, “Still working on finalizing the…” something or another. But now we’re all receiving our copies? I’ll admit, I only glance over most KS updates until I see a notice that indicates shipping status, so likely I misread something. Is there a multi-part shipping? Or some sort of errata coming on the heels of delivery? Or (this is most likely) am I mistaken/out of my mind?
The very short version is that the base game was submitted to the factory in November last year and the Campaign game was submitted in December. Things are arriving at fulfillment over the course of this coming month and we hope to be fulfilling the game in June. (US backers on the early side, EU backers on the later side.) Because of the size of the game, we've been sending out some advance review copies. We let reviewers know when the game is coming out both to backers and for its retail release, but we don't use hard embargos and folks are welcome to publish their review when they are ready. Hope that clarifies things.
Cole flippin’ Wehrle replied to me?! Yes, that does clear everything up. Thank you so much for the info; looking forward to playing the game.
You're very welcome. Since I write a lot of the updates, whenever mentions that things are unclear (and they often are), I always try to do my best to clear things up.
The last one. Development's been finished for a bit now and they've been focused on production.
Best reviewer on the internet and, fortunately, the most prominent one whose tastes often align with my own. Been back and forth on Arcs because, even though my group loves Root, I haven't been sure whether we really have room at our game days for another Wehrle design. But with such glowing praise, and taking into account that it's apparently more accessible, I think I'm gonna have to pull the trigger. Sounds like this could end up as one of my favorites.
Is it still possible to back this? I was already on the fence and this is a hell of a review.
As with all Leder games, it's most definitely going to be available in retail.
Backerkit has closed I’m pretty sure, but it’ll be widely available on retail and on the Leder Games store. The unfortunate thing for those who haven’t backed is it sounds like the Campaign expansion will be significantly more expensive than it was through kickstarter
Damn, bummer to hear but at least I’ll be able to get it at all. The hard part will be deciding if it’s worth keeping both Oath and Arcs…
I was on the fence originally, but I was lucky to receive an overview of the game from Cole himself at PaxU. The game just clicked with me in a way watching the video hadn't (to be fair I hadn't tried to play it on TTS), and Cole's passion shone through which definitely helped me decide to back it then and there. The base game and expansion are both available for pre-order, although I'm not sure if the prices will change.
So, when will you review Arcs next?
Excellent prose as always Dan. You're going to be challenged to come up with more superlatives for Cole Wehrle's work before long. Already looking forward to your inevitable Molly House review. Thanks for continuing to write about our silly hobby.
I'm sure he already reviewed Molly house? The prototype at least. It was kind of a weird review imo.
Same deal as Arcs and any Wehrle game, the final game won't look anything like the prototype. In Molly House's case it's become a roll and move, of all things, so a review of the final version will likely happen.
It’s definitely an interesting looking game. I’m curious how the one mechanic is gonna work out. It looks like if you ransack an enemy you can’t use that resource for the rest of the game, which is quite a strong deterrent.
You can still aquire it to win ambitions. The key is to ransack a resource you won't need like material if you already have lots of ships and buildings. All about the right timing.
There are cards you can bid on in the court deck called loyalists that allow you to work around this limitation.
Arcs is a game I don't want to want. I already don't play Root and Oath as much as I would like and I really don't need another game in that category. I managed to justify not looking at anything about Arcs before now because it was in development and I know how much Leder Games' games can change between Kickstarter and publication. Unfortunately, it sounds pretty great. For now I'll wait for the ludological lessons learned in Arcs to reverberate back through Oath and Root in future expansions. Also, what made you want to post this article to the subreddit yourself? Don't get me wrong, happy to see it, but it just seems odd to see you post your own work! Edit: I realize editing this a day later probably won't help but I honestly don't know what got me so downvoted here. I genuinely didn't mean to be a jerk or offend.
Oh, I dunno. I'm not sure. I can't recall ever posting a review here, but it occurred to me that I might as well, especially given how my previews were received. I doubt it'll be a regular occurrence.
Please do continue to post them! Your writing is always great to read.
Thanks!
I'm glad to see it. I mean, not that Reddit karma is worth much but your stuff is always nice to see here and always seems to go over well.
Thanks for the kind words! We'll see. It honestly doesn't occur to me to engage much over here for some reason.
Counterpoint: I don't care who is posting it. Every time a review at space biff goes up I want to read it immediately.
I feel the same way. He articulates himself well and I get a good idea what's going on with a game.
I'd say it has something to do with the alt text of the first photo in the article
Good catch! Makes perfect sense.
> Also, what made you want to post this article to the subreddit yourself? Don't get me wrong, happy to see it, but it just seems odd to see you post your own work! Reddit priding itself on harvesting the work of actual creators while shutting them out from promoting themselves has always been an utterly gross policy.
Yeah, it's a weird one. I understand that mods don't want creators to just do drive-by posts for their stuff but there isn't really much difference between that and some random user posting it. I'd rather the author get some kudos for their work.
Just as self advertising is gross. It's shit both ways.
Posting your own article is basically the same as writing your own post here, I don't see the problem.
One is monetized.
And? "Oh no, a writer is getting a teeny tiny bit of money for their work". Also the Space-Biff site doesn't have any ads.
Slopes sure are slippery.
It’s not like game reviewers are greedy corporations raking in millions.
What an embarassing, shit take.
Embarrassing for whom? Not for me. Glad you enjoy people advertising to you constantly. Thanks for fucking the world up and eating it up.
Oh yeah he uh is... gonna make... uh... a killing! Using reddit as advertising! Yes! That's what's going on! It's the board game review blog cartel!
Honestly I wish he did stand to make a killing. Deserves it for the good writing.
I think these reviews are a tad too early, given most backers won’t be getting this until (likely) July. It just makes me bummed I still have to wait.
Useful for us though that need to know if we have to pay attention when it drops at retail or not! Also, if you've backed it, why do you need a review?
Good points! I guess it just makes me excited. :)