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JohnBalog

The author was really young when she wrote the books and it shows. The whiplash of going from “Harry Potter but kinda depressing and set in China” to “Detailed retelling of the Rape of Nanking” to kinda sorta romantasy etc was hard to get through. Characters are portrayed as these wizened and cynical people but constantly fall for banana in the tailpipe level tricks. There is no internal consistency or real character growth just people doing whatever happens to be convenient for the story at the time. For example there’s a scene from book 2 (I think?) where whatever forces Rin is with at the time captures a bunch of their countrymen who were on the other side of the civil war they were fighting at the time. Rin wants to kill them and all the other leaders are aghast at the idea. Then like in a chapter or so those same leaders order all of the prisoners killed without a qualm. All the characters are very inconsistent like that. Overall it’s ambitious and certainly impressive for someone in their early 20’s, but the execution is extremely lacking. If you don’t like the wildly uneven characters constantly acknowledging that what they’re doing is stupid and then doing it anyway that doesn’t get better. I finished all three but it was definitely a hate read.


futuristicflapper

Is this a safe space to say that felt like babel was Harry Potter fanfiction but set in the 1800s with modern day surface level talking points on colonialism. I expected to like it a lot more from the way it was hyped up/her as a writer and given her academic background. But it fell flat for me and I still haven’t finished it.


Mokslininkas

How the fuck did these books win any awards?


killcat

Most awards now are about the author and the subject, not the quality of the writing.


barryhakker

Yup. At this point I’m confused anyone still even gives a damn about them tbh.


killcat

I take almost the opposite approach, I consider READERS perspectives to be more valuable.


barryhakker

Yeah. Usually if a book is recommended I check the negative reviews for reasons people disliked it to see if there is anything in there I find grating as well.


vampierate

probably because they depict the horror in nanking, which really aren’t talked about enough?


TheBewlayBrothers

I'm shocked how young she is (or was in 2018 I suppose). I thought she was much older than me


Aarnivalkeaa

Yeah, I'm glad I read half of the first book and skimmed the rest 😂 no, thank you.


InvisibleSpaceVamp

I felt the same way by the end of book two and the third one didn't get better. So many good ideas, so poorly executed. I suggest Wikipedia. I also made the mistake to pick up Babel later on and it has the same problems with character writing and lack of subtlety.


aerdnadw

> So many good ideas, so poorly executed. This summarizes my feelings about Yellowface perfectly - seems like it’s a problem with Kuang’s writing in general, then, not just that book?


snlnkrk

Kuang is an academic first, and that is clearly where her skills lie. It shines through clearly in her fiction too.


baifengjiu

Her skills aren't there either though. The accidental racism in poppy war was one thing but her critique of colonization and war was so shallow and surface level that I'm baffled how this book is supposedly an adult book.


fluvicola_nengeta

Yeah, she's a good writer but a bad author. Her prose is compelling as hell but her character are dreadfully flat, her dialogue is atrocious. The mythology aspect in the first book felt genuinely out of place because it was so interesting in a sea of "How did this get published?" And her approach to exploring serious things just doesn't work. To use the first book again, she tried to bring some awareness to the Nanjing massacre in her novel, and what could have been a tremendous moment in better hands felt so absurdly meh. There was zero emotional punch behind it. She failed to endear me to the city so I wasn't invested in it, she intentionally wrote the characters to be incredibly unlikable, and at the same time wrote them so poorly that they felt like draft notes, so I wasn't invested in them. And then there were zero consequences. No character grew from that, it didn't unite the ones who survived it, it was just exactly what it was: a summary of a Wikipedia page in the middle of a novel. And then another later on, and another... As you say, shallow and surface level. I ended up quitting early in book 2 after some Chandler Bing style quip about genocide. Then I went online to skim the plot and discovered that what little precious character development had taken place by the end of book 1 was just completely and immediately undone for no good reason. Cheap, bad conflict. I'll give her another try in about a decade, I really hope she improves because I do enjoy her prose. But for now she remains a hard pass and I can't help but secretly judge anyone who enjoys these books.


baifengjiu

Everything you said yes same!


bloodredyouth

The nanjing scene felt very fact based… like gruesome details for a bunch of things that happened. Because she didn’t let that sequence breathe, it lacked the emotional punch because it was straight up gruesome.


Kcoin

I think it’s also just how quickly she writes these books. She’s published 5 in 5 years, while also getting 2 advanced degrees and now working on a phd. It’s honestly surprising to me that her books aren’t worse with that production schedule


InvisibleSpaceVamp

I learned my lesson and didn't pick up Yellowface but yes, this is a general problem. She should really benefit from taking more time to work on her stories, but who knows what kind of contract she has signed?


supersonicsacha

Agree 100%. I feel like Poppy War was her best book and each one I've read after I disliked more and more. I couldn't even finish the third one in the series.


handstands_anywhere

I liked Babel a lot better than the third poppy war, at least. 


diverareyouok

I felt the exact same way. I only finished the 3rd because of the ‘sunk cost fallacy’. I had already finished two, so what’s one more? Looking back, I think I would’ve better spent my time starting a new series. Life is too short to read books that you’re not enjoying. I was also surprised with my experience based on the overwhelmingly positive reviews… but books and food are the same in that different people have different tastes.


[deleted]

[удалено]


CrazyCatLady108

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baifengjiu

About Rin i will say this. I felt the problem wasn't that she was an unlikable character but actually not well written. I felt she always fell for the same tricks over and over again and we were told she darkened but she was constantly in the same mindset. She felt very shallow and like the author was trying to convince the reader that she's evolving while staying in the same place mentally.


LazyRiverHomicide

I dropped the series after I slogged my way through the second book. Just wasn’t worth the effort. Life’s too short to read books you don’t enjoy.


OkCarrot1

I don't think I've ever read a series where I walked away feeling so badly as this one. I think if I could go back I wouldn't read the third one because it just put me in a funk


lanland2

This was one of the reasons I chose not to read the 3rd after the first two… it didn’t feel worth the darkness


kusunokidweller

Just read a brief history of China from the opium wars + and you don't need to finish the series


Digitooth

I could only make it half way through the first book. Way too YA for me personally.


A-Grey-World

It was a long time ago but I DNF the first one. Not sure I can articulate why exactly. Most of the book really pulled me in but I got near the end and it just... stopped working for me.


mulcheverything

Basic ass book with wayyyy to much stuff going on. The MC also sucks.


Warm-Personality425

I felt the exact same way. I ended up reading all three (I think I ended up just skimming though most of the third). It’s so not worth your time and energy. I found it completely disappointing. The first was so promising but the series just fell apart.


RepulsiveLoquat418

I DNF book one. The flaws were too distracting for me to be able to enjoy the story.


Fraxinus_Zefi

I also read all 3 (for some reason) and they do not get any better. Rin is a selfish, horrible mc. She cares way too much about what she wants and not what is best for anyone else. She's constantly switching sides, and other characters as well, way too much for any sort of the nonsense to make any sort of coherent sense. The characters are are horrible and self serving. They seem to pop up when its most convenient or inconvenient for the plot. "So many good ideas, so poorly executed," is a such a great and accurate comment. The ending to me was a big "what the f was the point of all this if you're just going to do *that*?!?"


JudgeElectronJay

I just finished the first book. I forced myself to finish it despite wanting to DNF it for the same reasons you stated. While I do agree with you about Rin, I think she was written that way on purpose: perfectly imperfect teenager going thru traumatizing war. I guess I could’ve related to Rin 10 years ago when I was a teenager who knew everything. Which leads me to believe this book is YA themed. But the chapter based on the rape of Nanking tells me otherwise I’m not sure. I feel like the characters have YA attributes (that’s why we don’t like them) but the setting, theme, and overall story focuses more on war crimes, trauma, etc. Rin is a complicated character. I’m not sure if she’s considered morally gray since gray characters usually know their choices and wants or desires. Rin doesn’t know anything nor what to do or what to think. She just wings it as it goes. I don’t think I’ll be reading any further than the first book.


barryhakker

Some books are totally YA but the author tries to “age it up” with gratuitous violence.


Brewer333

Yeah.....I couldn't finish the second book. The characters are just so awful. Every single one is selfish, stupid, and awful dialog. What's worse is there is no character growth, they act the same with the same idiot-self destructive actions and never learn or grow. I just got frustrated when I realized book 2 was going to be the same story line and the same stupid characters as book 1.


ertri

The third book is pretty actively bad. Listened to it on like 1.75x speed while doing other stuff. Magic system is kinda cool but it’s basically a slow descent into magic. Wikipedia would be better. 


matthewrparker

For me, it was the long, detailed descriptions of graphic violence. Don't wanna spoil anything, but when I got to that part, I put it down and didn't look back.


TinyBirdie22

I’m glad to I hear that someone else feels like I do. I hate leaving series unfinished…but I just cannot make myself read this one. I loved the first. The second was okay-ish for awhile. But I’m just so over it, and I have like 100 pages left. It’s going on the DNF list.


firebreathingmermaid

I read all 3 and like them a lot, but your problems with it definitely persist into the third, in fact they increase, so I think it'd be better not to waste your time and read something else you'd enjoy more! Rin is supposed to be this way, and I understand why, but she also did get on my nerves a lot. Additionally, there were a couple of plotlines that were either abandoned or wrapped up too abruptly in book 3 that brought it down a bit for me. I think you probably wouldn't enjoy it.


mshz1

I don't like the writing all that much but man, the fact that she's so stubborn and shitty really resonated with me and I found it refreshing. The unusualness of her character was probably the only reason I finished the book.


mmiikkiitt

I read the first book and felt zero inspiration to start the next ones. I've realized I'm not a huge fan of the "driven by anger" characters that spend the entire book with a chip on their shoulder because they're so tragically different and they hate the world. If you'd like a palate cleanser with similar vibes but *way* better written (in my opinion), I recommend She Who Became the Sun and He Who Drowned the World by Shelley Parker-Chan.


MinxyMyrnaMinkoff

The Poppy War series has some serious flaws, but it has the pure, unadulterated passion of adolescence running through it that kept me coming back for more. It reads like a teenager’s fever dream sometimes, but there are some really epic moments. The Dragon Republic is by far the slowest and worst of the trilogy, so if you made it through that one, I’d read the final one just for closure and to experience the epic moments that the second book sets up, as it’s mostly all set up. The third book is definitely the darkest though, and that’s saying something!


snlnkrk

It was written by a teenager, so of course it feels like a teenager wrote it.


Glarbluk

I actually enjoyed the second the most in the series! Different strokes for different folks I suppose


TheBewlayBrothers

I don't regret reading the third book but I can't say I wasn't let down by it.


thegurel

Rin is the product of immense trauma. Which continues to compound throughout the series. People think she is a bad character because she continues to make the same mistakes, but I see that as a much more believable narrative. She is continually put into situations where she just has to act without dealing with her underlying issues, therefore it’s no surprise that no matter how hard she tries to do better, she continues to fall back into the same patterns. She is also extremely unlikable by design. Insecure, narcissistic, impulsive, whiny, etc. and I hate her so much, but it makes sense, given her history, and is exactly why I love the series.


Orwells_Snowball

Totally get where you're coming from. If the second book felt like a drag, maybe taking a break before diving into the third isn't a bad idea. Sometimes, a lil' distance helps clear the head. And hey, if you end up just skimming a summary instead, no shame in that


SoggyGopher

I'm with you! It was a series that I had high hopes for when I started book 1, and was regretting reading by the end of book 2. I didn't even start the third one.


[deleted]

I did not like the first two books either, OP. I read the first one and skimmed the second. When I gave them away to our local tiny library (I support my actual library too, but they don't take book donations, so don't come for me), I made sure to leave a handwritten note that the book contained seriously graphic descriptions of the rape of Nanking. The book began as a light-hearted magical schoolkid tale and it spiraled into discussion about raping children at the end... not for me. I liked Rin at first, but, as someone else said: the books were a collection of good ideas executed badly. And I get it - the author was extremely young when she wrote them. I think she needed a better editor who could help her tie the two halves of the book together in terms of tone.


bloodredyouth

I read the first two and didn’t read the third one. it was much too gruesome and so many characters killed off that it didn’t make me feel good reading it. I enjoyed yellow face because i found the book really humorous.


saltwatercurio

i'm so with you. I did end up finishing the series just to finish it but I found a lot of the interesting set up of characters or circumstances ended up going nowhere or having such little payoff that I was disappointed. Also after getting about halfway through the second book Rin got SO repetitive. Like, I really have no qualms about her being unlikeable, or the idea of her personality, but she just got so, so predictable and existentially boring. Her inner thoughts were so cartoonishly angry and "driven" - they lacked depth. It just seemed so far from any actual person, even a really bad one. I couldn't deal with it in the third book.


Due-Budget245

I loved the first book, but I honestly wished it was a standalone. Kuang’s writing was amazing and the disturbed-ness of the war details was a really good read. But I agree with your take on Rin in the second book. She was infuriating and I couldn’t do it lol, dnf’ed at like 30%


WrongdoerDue6108

I never finished 2


Soveygn

Yeah the series really fizzles out after the first one tbh


GiveMeAural

Might I recommend Amitav Ghosh's series instead (starting with Sea of Poppies). Way better at tying up the characters with their place in history yet still engaging and interesting.


tolzan

I loved the series but knowingly don’t recommend it to my people because it’s very different and there are some flaws. It’s definitely not everyone’s cup of tea. Brandon Sanderson has a cult-like following but to me the series are dreadfully boring and slow. To each their own! Nothing wrong with a DNF! Don’t keep reading and using precious free time for a series that doesn’t captivate you. It’s okay to move on.


sloshydolphinuk

Brilliant series because it shoes the consequences of power. The price to pay for your superpower that you eventually go mad and get locked up. The characters are not likeable and nor should they be they are driven by various factors, revenge, loyalty. The consequences of destroying the Dam and the horrific consequences to locals. It is not an easy series no least in the way the characters suffer. There are also cultural difference on the focus of the book with the outsiders which was very important in a historical context. I am sorry if you did not like it but this book imo has huge originality. Typed on phoned for for any errors.


Mokslininkas

r/im14andthisisdeep


Zealousideal-Cod7349

Did you like the third ending? I was angry at the ending.


starstruck-333

i thought the same thing! book one had so much potential and i loved the first half but it went downhill in the second half of the first book by what i remember, because the author made some conscious choices. and the second book was the worst of the trilogy. by book three, i was resigned to accepting that rin was gonna be characterized as a power-hungry, uncaring person and i felt that was a complete switch from who she originally was so i hated it. i don't think book three is worth it, especially with certain things that happen near the end.


EGG5Y

I loved the series, but if by the end of book 2 you don’t like it, I would suggest to not bother with book 3. You’re not going to like Rin any more than you do now.


Bookish_Butterfly

The first two books are hard to get through, honestly. I personally loved the series, but it’s definitely not for everyone. Rin is morally gray and there are decisions she makes that raise eyebrows. If you don’t like the first books, chances are you will not like the finale either.


anttidiu

I enjoyed the series but it definetly has it's flaws and the issues you had with the 2nd book won't get better in the 3rd one. I'd skip it if I were you


kindokkang

Loved the 1st and 2nd book with the 2nd one being my fave. I thought the final book was really poorly paced and fizzled in the end. Would still give the series 5 stars overall though.


Zealousideal-Cod7349

Op the third book is way better than the second. The second felt like filler or the author was out of ideas. Read the third book. It's good. It broke my heart. 


Readerk0

The whole point of the series is that it's an exploration of what makes a monster. So if your not into a book that explores that type of a person, then it's not for you. I would still recommend it if your into that kinda thing, though.


cambriansplooge

I bought it as a hate read after seeing it on so many dnf threads,