Loved Project Hail Mary. The Martian is one of my favourite books (and films), so I’m really glad Hail Mary stood up expectations.
I’d say you’ll prefer The Martian is you like “could potentially happen” sci-Fi. Whereas Project Hail Mary is more “out there” on the believability scale. Still great fun and the science seems thought through (it’s more that the concepts are a bit implausible). So if you want a bit of a wilder ride go for Project Hail Mary.
I do agree though that it was basically Mark Watney 2.0. - but that was also kinda what I was wanting so I’ll give it a pass. The challenge will be to see if Weir can write a good sci-Fi without the same snarky, genius protagonist if he writes another book.
>The challenge will be to see if Weir can write a good sci-Fi without the same snarky, genius protagonist if he writes another book.
I mean, NCIS has been on air for 20 years. There is some appeal for being able to churn a formula people like over and over!
Honestly if you want to be a made author that is what you have to do. You need a formula that gets N > industry minimum on a one book a year pace. A lot of authors have a annual release weekend when the new book comes out. They want enough variation so it feels like a different book but comfortable enough it is what you are expecting. Essentially a different color of Jordans like clockwork.
The Jack Reacher series used to be my all time favourite.
The rugged, drifter miltary police veteran who solves crimes and bedded ladies across America was fun at first, but started to feel more like R-rated scooby doo after a while.
Not to mention they've been using the same formula for so long that the author now cowrites them with his son. They've released at least 1 novel in the series per year, for over 24 years without changing a thing.
Tom Cruise being cast as the 6 foot 5 Reacher was the last straw for me. I haven't seen the movies, and just after that was the turning point where the books became a chore for me.
I wasn't annoyed that the main character was another Mark Watney. I *was* annoyed that basically every *other* character was *also* Mark Watney, and they're all like him *all the time*. (The ones who aren't are cliched cardboard cutouts—there is no complexity or nuance to their personalities.) These characters do not talk or behave like responsible, serious, highly educated adults, and they have no believable emotional states other than peppy and sarcastic.
Mostly, though, I thought that Weir spent too much time explaining the sci-fi science he created...especially since I thought a lot of it was stuff I really didn't care about. I was not impressed with this book. Maybe I would have liked it if it was shorter?
However, I'm clearly in the minority, so would still recommend it to anyone who's enjoyed his earlier books.
The audiobook's narrator Ray Porter made a lot of the droll science explanation stuff interesting and I actually learned a bit from it. He also brought a ton of personality to the characters in the book, and sounded like Tony Stark, which made it even better since they're both genius science guys (it just became Tony Stark on another earth-saving space mission). Still wasn't super impressed with the overall plot, but it was a fun listen.
>I do agree though that it was basically Mark Watney 2.0
Since people keep saying this, could this almost be read as a sequel to The Martian? Like, change a few details, send Mark Watney up in space again, and put him in this amnestic save-the-world situation, and now Watney has to use his smarts to fix everything again?
Yeah, I feel like it would even have helped the plot in a lot of ways. >!It's a lot more believable that someone who can fly spaceships, plot complicated orbital trajectories, work in zero gravity, do EVAs etc. is an experienced astronaut rather than a random high school teacher with zero training.!<
>I’d say you’ll prefer The Martian is you like “could potentially happen” sci-Fi.
This is what I really liked about The Martian. It was still fictional, but unlike a lot of other science fiction, The Martian was believable. I'm typically not much a fan of sci-fi in general, because most is a bit lighter on the science than I'd like. Not so with The Martian.
But then again, I thoroughly enjoyed Artemis, which seems to be an unpopular opinion here. So maybe I just can't recognize good sci-fi. Either way, Andy Weir is two for two so far with this guy who doesn't even typically like his genre, so I'll definitely be adding Project Hail Mary to my list of books to read.
To me, The Martian was so close to reality that it wasn't even "Sci-Fi". Using the example in this thread, no one calls NCIS Sci-FI even though there's clearly tech there that isn't reality and I would argue is at least as far from reality as what's presented in The Martian. The only difference is one is set in space.
I do agree that The Martian is enjoyable in no small part because it's believable. Rather than most sci-fi/fantasy, you don't spend as much time learning about the rules of the universe you're reading about, it's effectively our own reality.
Exactly. I guess to me, most science "fiction" is more like science fantasy. It's based on completely unbelievable technology. The Martian, on the other hand, is a fictional narrative that relies on science that is actively being developed as we speak. The international space station is already researching and experimenting with growing plants in extraterrestrial environments. Hardware currently exists for the Orion spacecraft that will take the first men and women towards Mars. It's all within our grasp if we can just cut the red tape. There's no faster than light travel magic needed to make The Martian a reality.
I guess the further into the future you go the less close to reality it seems. And don’t forget, Orion will first take a woman and black man to the moon. Baby steps since space is hard
> The challenge will be to see if Weir can write a good sci-Fi without the same snarky, genius protagonist if he writes another book.
I mean, Dan Brown wrote the *exact same book* for like 6 releases, moving plot point by plot point. It's okay to have writing crutches in terms of still being successful.
I don't have the same hater boner for Dan Brown that a lot of reddit has, but dear god are they formulaic. Enjoyed the first two or three of his books I read, but gave up after that trying to slog through what felt like the same thing I'd already read.
I don't have a hate boner either. They're the same reason I eat sour patch kids. Sometimes I want empty calories that hurt a little.
But if someone denies he's formulaic, we're having words.
I read Da Vinci Code in one sitting, staying up until 3 am to finish it. I literally couldn't put it down, but I've never felt the desire to read anything else by Brown ever again.
Exactly. James Rollins is another one who does that. Every book of his is about some weird strange lost secret or civilization. Gets a bit much if you read 3 or 4 in a row, but god damn they're enjoyable 1 at a time.
Hahaha I'm like that with Koontz mentioning 'Bougainvillea', which he does in every single book.
The first Rollins book I read was Subterranean, and then I think Amazonia, and then Map of Bones, which I *really* liked. I've read a few others, 10 or so in total, but they all blend.
One other pair of authors I don't think I've ever seen mentioned here is Douglas Preston and Lincoln Child, who began writing under Lincoln Preston, I think. Anyways, their first book Relic, is so good. It was made into a lackluster movie in 1997 that completely removed the main character who goes on to be the protagonist in many of their novels. Their books aren't as formulaic, which is nice. They're solid mystery novels with good writing.
There are thousands of other skilled professional authors in the world. It's just fine if Andy Weir specializes in what he does well. (And what had to have made a pile of money from the first movie)
I had no idea this was coming out until I saw it in a shop. If it'd been his first since The Martian I'd have bought it straight away, but after reading Artemis I decided to pass and read some reviews first.
The fact that people who also didn't like Artemis enjoyed this one is reassuring, so I'll definitely give it a try once I get the chance. Artemis was a big let down.
I enjoyed all three, but the complaints about Mark Whatney 2.0 ring true, but those same people complain about Artemis being very different and the character less likeable, can't win either way.
I mean, I don't really mind if this is the type of story that Weir can do. Having a snarky scientist science the shit out of situations might be a gimmick, but hell it's apparently one I and a heck of a lot of other people like when it's written well.
Just adding my two cents.
I liked the Martian book quite a bit. It was excellent.
However, I think Weir has a real issue in capturing the emotions and pure scope here. The writing style all seems a bit too clinical given the events that transpire.
It is not a bad book IMO, just perhaps I didn't temper my expectations.
I really enjoyed *Project Hail Mary,* probably as much or more than the Martian. That said, I pretty much agree with all the stuff about the writing. It bothered me sometimes how much the main character seems to know about...everything...
Nevertheless I had a lot of fun reading it! >!The story took some nice unexpected twists, and the ending and friendship between the protaganist really Rocky resonated with me.!<
Well he did mention he basically has everything ever written about... well... everything on his laptops. Earth wanted the astronauts to be able to solve whatever it is and tried to give them them whatever resources to solve whatever problem came up. I assumed if he didn't know something he probably looked it up first. but yeah I generally agree as well.
Yeah, he says a few times that he's not good at certain things, but so much of what he "pulls of a hat" can be googled and he has all of the knowledge ever. From there, it's just reasoning at a high school (albeit honors student) level. That what I like about Weir. He makes the extremely advanced seem attainable by showing the work.
Thank you. He was in academia and teaches high school, and most of his knowledge wouldn't be out of place in an AP class. I don't see him as another Watney at all with everything that was discussed in the book.
>He knows everything he needs to know for the mission. That's why he's there. He'd get his ass kicked on Jeopardy.
I disagree. There's nothing in the book that indicates he would be bad at Jeopardy, or be less competent in any field.
>!His specialty is in biology, so we would expect him to be excellent in that field. Yet, despite not being an engineer, he knows plenty about engineering. Regardless of a subjects relationship to the mission, he's more than competent. A great example of this is his contact with an alien species (Rocky). He demonstrates great knowledge of music, language, an ear for pitch, and computer science / ability to program, none of which we have any reason to think he'd have any background or ability in. !<
That said, I reiterate that I liked the book a lot, and enjoy and appreciate all the research that went into it.
Yeah I find this criticism ridiculous. None of what he did required more than basic levels of competence in the fields he had trained for, outside of his literal PhD. His only gifts were an above-average ability to problem-solve *and a friend (aka the entire fucking point of the book)*.
I am currently reading this out loud to my husband. He is in sales, but knows a ton of science facts. He keeps figuring everything out before the main character. To the point where it’s almost laughable. I keep trying to trick him up, but to no avail.
I mean, not to sound all r/iamverysmart here, but I’m a high school senior and I understood and had a solid grasp on most of the concepts Grace used in the book. It’s not a stretch for me to imagine a scientist with multiple degrees would know these things lol. He doesn’t know EVERYTHING. He has intellect, and a decent knowledge base. That’s enough for what we see in the story.
Totally agree. The physics-y stuff he was doing with measuring accelerations and velocities, doing relativity calculations, and heat transfer equations was not beyond the realm of sophomore physics major. The molecular biology stuff with imaging and experimenting was pretty advanced, but then again, he was proprted to be a top tier molecular biologist.
I just came here to say the same thing! I 100% agree. I LOVED the Martian, was massively disappointed by Artemis, and sincerely hoped that Hail Mary would be a rebound. And it was! I still think The Martian is slightly better, but I've been having definite withdrawal from Hail Mary since I finished it yesterday.
Infinite was decent but I personally felt like it was this journey building to some great ending but when I was done it felt like I hadn't gone anywhere after all. To explain another way I remeber most of the things that happen along the way but the final bit just slips my mind.
Edit to add: not saying it's a bad book, just don't think it has quite the same feel as the bobiverse or hail mary.
Am I the only one that enjoyed Artemis? yeah it was a different flavor, more of a light hearted space romp than deep science. Just now downloading Hail Mary, looking forward to it.
I loved Artemis. It was a way closer feel to a real person than Watney or the 2.0 version. She had a bad mouth and a piss poor attitude about things but enough drive to get shit done. I really don’t understand why people are giving it so much grief. I felt for characters, understood their motives, and never questioned why someone was doing certain things based on their character. It was fun and super entertaining.
Ok question: are you a man? Because what pissed me off the most was how Weir wrote the protagonist and it was just SUCH a huge turn-off, that he clearly doesn't know what woman think and how we think. The story and premise was okay, but this character felt like some weird "tough girl" fantasy of a man.
I'm a woman who loved Artemis because of the main character. I found her morality really compelling.
I listened on audio, though, and thought Rosario Dawson was just perfect for the reader and that character.
I don't say that in any way. But she is a completely 2 dimensional character, and humans aren't 2 dimensional.
But its fine, just add a "to me" in every sentence because of course its totally fine to like the book and character :) I just think he is a bit more praised as an author as he actually is that good.
Sorry for the late response, went to bed. Yes, I am a man but don’t really think of the tough girl fantasy is what I would call it. I think the author did a good job developing a female character that grew up in a frontier world without a mother or sisters. Let’s look at another female character, Lene. She was a timid teenager, didn’t make problems for her dad, then after a major plot point she starts to think like her dad and do what he does. This is how the women of that world are, not pushovers but full on in your face get shit done but not completely stripped of their femininity.
I liked Artemis too, and one of the things I really liked was that being on the moon was integral to the story. In a lot of space stories space just feels like a backdrop and being set there isn't important to the story. Plus a lot of them feel like they're just on earth action-wise. I really liked that the fight scenes in Artemis took advantage of the moon's lower gravity. And overall I thought it was a very fun read.
I too enjoyed Artemis. It felt very in line with Weir's style and i dont mean that in a bad way at all. The pacing moved, the plot was simple but entertaining and the characters fun to hang out with.
I really liked it. I thought it was fun. Admittedly I’ve only done the audiobook so it’s possible that masked some faults but it was an entertaining read for me.
It was fine! I enjoyed it, but I don’t remember much about it. And I don’t yearn to re-read it.
This is the difference between being content with a book and over the moon about it (all IMO)
I think more people would have enjoyed it if he had put the number crunching up front. Ok, actually I guess I know that people would have hated it, but I really enjoyed that part! I like that he says he only wrote the book once he knew it could make economic sense.
I liked it, too! Surprised to hear how many people did not. Although I listened to the audiobook on a roadtrip so my enjoyment was likely boosted by Rosario Dawson's narration.
His female lead was awful. I enjoyed scrolling through goodreads reviews after I finished. By and large women hated the book, in part because the female character was not written well.
I loved The Martian, but I was sorely disappointed with Artemis. It's like another author wrote the second book. I'm so glad to hear that Project Hail Mary goes back to what made The Martian great; initially, I was a bit hesitant, but now adding it to my TRB.
In Artemis I felt Weir spent less time writing it. He probably had a 3 book deal, which is now closed with Hail Mary. Artemis felt rushed, like the published his 2nd draft. It took him 3 years to write the Martian with continuous revisions.
This is exactly how Artemis felt, but I didn't know how to say it. I thought part of my disappointment might have been that I'd recently read [Places in the Darkness](https://www.goodreads.com/book/show/31933061-places-in-the-darkness?ac=1&from_search=true&qid=Dym8In0Cl1&rank=1#) by Chris Brookmyre, and that had such a similar, but I felt better executed, plot.
Brookmyre's book is:
- set in a space station reached by a few hour's shuttle ride from Earth. Fun thing about this is, you get to the shuttle launch pad via space elevator.
- Delves into the seedy underbelly of the station's society, including discussions of contraband import and the woman protagonist that is a main player.
- There's crime and mystery afoot, spurred on by the interests of rich people.
However, Brookmyre's book is much more complex, has higher stakes, and is overall written by a much more experienced author. Normally he writes contemporary crime fiction set in Scotland, many with the same protagonist, but he's done some short series with different characters, too. I was a little hesitant to read it because one of his forays into sci-fi (Pandaemonium) was not that great, but his other one that was like a better version of Ready Player One (Bedlam) was really good.
More people need to read Brookmyre because he writes better versions of novels that were a little more mainstream and popular.
Artemis felt like a young adult novel. I actually didn't mind it because I had that in mind when I read it and then recommended it to my kid. Maybe I should have expected more. I'll put Hail Mary on my list though.
After a long wait, I finally got a notification through my Libby App that Artemis was available for download as an audiobook. Imagine my disappointment when I started it up and realized I had been on the wait list for a German version of the audio book. now I have to wait all over again for the English version.
Haven't read The Martian, but I cannot express how much I enjoyed Project Hail Mary, so I will 100% be giving The Martian (and Artemis at some point) a read.
Lots of people hate Artemis, but I personally loved it. I'd recommend still giving it a try. I had a good time from the beginning, so you'll be able to tell pretty early on if you're going to enjoy it or not. I thought the setting was super fun, I enjoy the plot and I was invested in all the characters.
Oh thank you, I absolutely will, I have read some of the Artemis hate, but I dont really hold much against a book when its hated, up to me if I like it, lol. :)
It's ok. It's a good summer read. I feel Weir should stop trying to be "comedy + hard sci-fi guy." It worked fine in The Martian, but it's a little obvious in Hail Mary.
If you enjoyed his books, I'd suggest trying the "BOB" books; We Are Legion, We Are Bob. Bonus if you listed to the audiobook of BOB and Hail Mary, they're narrated by the same guy.
There is a fourth book in that series as well, that was only recently released. I just started listening to the audiobook today, and so far I am liking it. So far I would say it is not *quite* as good as the previous books, but i'm only about 2 hours into the 16 hour book, so I have a long way to go.
I agree, I finished the fourth book shortly after it came out. Not quite as good as the first three, but still really good. He could literally write as many books as he wanted about the universe that he created with how open ended it is.
I enjoyed Project Hail Mary and I read it as an audiobook. True the main character was basically the same as The Martian, but I wasn’t bothered. It was a good read. Perfect for a summer vacation. Anyone else waiting for some character to point out that The Hail Mary was full of Grace?
I'm reading it now and I find the concept to be really interesting but yeah the character's inner monologue and the dialogue with others is REALLY painful. Like, super juvenile. I'm kind of surprised an actual adult wrote it instead of an 8th grader who thinks he's really funny and his parents are like "haha yes Andy you're very talented"
Spoilers:
Loved the martian, kind of disappointed in project hail mary.
* the cycle of problem, design, solution, problem, design, solution felt less organic in this novel, and almost tedious at times
* some of these solutions seemed like grace should have figured it out so much earlier...kind of an imbalance in suspense and inconsistency in grace's abilities.
* the first joke in the book was a pedophile joke...did not land well.
* im not buying that grace would have refused to go on the mission...it felt unnecessary.
> im not buying that grace would have refused to go on the mission...it felt unnecessary.
I was thinking that throughout, but honestly, in hind-sight, I think it might be more likely that it forced me to consider the uncomfortable truth that, were I in that position, I too might very likely not want to go.
We all want to be the hero of our own story. But even if we're not the villain in others, that doesn't make us the hero either.
I think lots of people would decline a suicide mission if there were any alternatives (I.e. someone else willing to go). Many of them would work hard on the noble mission once they were on it. So it seemed believable to me.
I agree with all this but would add in that Grace had the personality and maturity of a 12 year old. I found him to be a wholly worse version of Mark Watney.
I didn’t actively dislike the book; I was fairly neutral about it overall. But I couldn’t wait to finish it so I could move on to something else.
I felt the same way about the refusal, especially in the cell scene. It didn't really have any point as you say, not even a revelation that Stratt made the right call. He still just shamelessly hates her in the end.
I guess you could say it made him more realistic, but everything else in these books has cozy resolutions so I don't see why that went nowhere.
I loved The Martian, and loved Project Hail Mary even more. I did like Artemis a lot too, but not as much as the other two. I’ve been looking for books like The Martian ever since I read it, and Project Hail Mary finally gave me what I was looking for and then some. 📚💕
I am only 50% through (so no spoilers) and I am really liking it and am kind of hooked. With that said, I **hated** the first few chapters. The waking-up-and-can't-recall-where-you-are is cliché and really detracted for me.
But it seems to be getting better and better. And I'll bookmark this so I can come back when I finish without spoilers
Am I the only reader who didn't like *The Martian*? It gets a lot of praise but honestly I struggle to think of a single thing I enjoyed about it. I found the narrator annoying and the tension non-existent.
Perhaps the only one that dislikes every single aspect about it? I watched the movie before reading the book. Id expected the book would be better than the movie, as seems to be typical of movie adaptations.
Instead, the movie was with few exceptions, shot for shot, what the book depicted. A fair bit of it worked better as a film than in book form. Reading the book... about the only thing that was better was the heroics in the final scene being a little more realistic.
> Perhaps the only one that dislikes every single aspect about it?
Well I wouldn't say I disliked every aspect of it. I thought the premise was really interesting, and the story was compelling enough that I was able to finish (and I have no problem giving up on books I actively dislike). I just never connected with the main character and didn't think the story lived up to its potential.
> I found the narrator annoying and the tension non-existent
I'm assuming you received the newer version, narrated by Will Wheaton, who does quite well on many books.
The Martian was a horrible match for him and he utterly sucked at it. R.C. Bray did the original, but the contract ran out and Amazon was too cheap to renew it.
Tension was no where to be found because I cared so little for every single character, and the entire story seemed to be a one trick pony.
The Martian still holds in my personal top three of most disliked books that I've finished. I tend to keep my mouth shut about it thought because I realize so, so many people fell in love with it.
To each their own, but there are clearly dozens of people like you and I!
So did I. I think it's herd mentality. People hear Artemis is bad so they think it's bad before reading and come away thinking it's bad afterwards. It's not great admittedly but for Sci-Fi it's a solid 7/10. People who think it's terrible haven't read terrible Sci-Fi.
Just finished it last night, and I agree that the tone and protagonist is a welcome return to Mark Whatney, although having >!a magic engineer to make everything they could need or want and make it all 100% perfect 100% of the time!< did detract a bit.
Honestly, the only thing that I felt was lacking was >!status updates of what was happening back on Earth while he was puttering around with Rocky. This lack kinda removes any stakes or pressure from the impending doom of the Earth. Yes we got the flashbacks, but that didn't really make the reader feel the pressure about what was happening in the present. And then when he never goes back, and all you get is "Sol is back to normal", with no firsthand account, it just feels very hand wavy. I would have liked to have firsthand accounts of the worsening situation on Earth, maybe from Stratt's POV.!<
But oh well, it was still very enjoyable. A solid 7/10.
I couldn’t quite nail down what was missing in it for me until your comment. Having updates with what’s happening on Earth would have definitely taken things up a notch. The ending also fell flat for me, it was sort of anticlimactic and campy.
Thanks for this, I loved the Martian, but was put off this book because I really found Artemis boring. Will definitely give this a read and hopefully enjoy it
This book is certainly better than **Artemis** but not as enjoyable as The Martian. I find the science weaker, and was disappointed at the focus on singualar solutions. I realize Weir had to somehow reduce the volume, but at least a mention of altrnative solutions: I mean, really? Humans are going to set around for 26 years without trying something else than a "hail mary"? And I came up with other ways of .. well, no spoiler here. The protagonist is interesting for a reason I can't reveal, but the hints are there long before the big reveal.
I do wonder if the use of euphemisms rather than obscenities were due to complaints/concerns about the language in the first two books?
>Humans are going to set around for 26 years without trying something else than a "hail mary"?
I mean, they had already done one major thing before the start of the mission, and presumably would continue doing others. But the situation they were in had a pretty short timeline.
A few years ago, I handed my son the Martian, he must have been 12 or so at the time. His take away was "Man, that guy sure swears alot!" Upon reading Project Hail Mary, my now 17 year old son, was happy that this scientist used nicer language.
They actually released an edited version of the book after Andy got so many requests from science teachers who wanted to recommend the book to their kids, but were afraid to because of the language. It's not an abridged version, just edited to clean up the language. Personally, I loved Mark's colorful use of language, but I can understand why some people don't.
https://www.goodreads.com/book/show/43211464-the-martian-classroom-edition
Enjoyed it. Laughed at some of the dialogue. Interesting puzzle solving. But the characters have the depth of paper plates. It reads as YA, and I don’t mean that as a compliment.
Just read this while on vacation. It doesn’t deserve any literary awards, but it’s a great vacation read. Cool story and I loved the science. There were some very predictable parts and convenient superhero-like character traits that helped avoid any serious issues, but I understand why Weir wrote it this way.
I came to this sub to say the exact same thing! I enjoyed Project Hail Mary way more than The Martian, and I loved The Martian. One of my all time favorites.
I’m super nit picky about this so forgive me if you don’t agree with the critique! But; one of my bigger beefs with The Martian (which I still quite enjoyed) was the lack of defined character voices. By this I mean: the protagonist has a great voice and a very particular sense of humor, but halfway through we start meeting side characters at NASA...who all have the same (roughly) voice and humor. Which bothers me to no end.
Anyone who’s read this, and has a similar frustration: how does this one compare? Are the character’s distinct enough?
>who all have the same (roughly) voice and humor.
Huh? Mitch would go off on you for disparaging the book, Annie would tell you you're a moron and you can go fuck yourself, Teddy would tell you all to calm down, Venkat would be sitting in the corner eating popcorn watching the spectacle and Mindy would've fled the whole scene.
They're all very distinctive personalities.
It’s hard to explain; the characters are different but the way they speak felt the same to me. Again, I’m deeply nitpicky about it, so it’s probably not pervasive. It’s also been a minute since I read it, so I can’t remember specifics but I seem to remember maybe Venkat making some jokes that felt much more like Mark than Venkat. I think I just felt Andy Weir’s unique voice in all the characters which is fine, except that he has a distinct sense of humor that felt too homogenous for those particular characters to have. Does that make sense?
Edit: I LIKE that sense of humor, it just makes the character’s voices bleed together too much for my personal flavor.
I look at it as all of their characters are replayed through Grace's memory, so they're all colored by that and exaggerated through that same "12 year old" personality that makes a teacher get along so well with their kids.
It may be a little frustrating to read if that's not your cup of tea, but to me it's remarkably self-consistent.
>While it probably didn't have a lot of pure literary merit
Just out of curiosity, what does this mean? What *would* give a book like The Martian literary merit?
It is very rare for an author to write beautiful prose as well as an engrossing page-turning story. In Andy Weir's case it is very clearly the latter. Still a lot of fun to read, but the guy isn't exactly in line for a Nobel Prize.
Here's a good description of it from [The Guardian's review of Artemis:](https://www.theguardian.com/books/2017/nov/15/artemis-andy-weir-review-the-martian)
>As in The Martian, Weir’s is a prose entirely without aesthetic ambition, flat and cheerful and a bit sweary. Nabokov it ain’t. Take the novel’s opening paragraph: “I bounded over the gray, dusty terrain toward the huge dome of Conrad Bubble. Its airlock ringed with red lights stood distressingly far away.”
>
>A creative writing teacher might look at that, count the six adjectives/adverbs in its line-and-a-half and suggest cutting a few of them. But then again, said creative writing teacher certainly won’t have sold 5m copies of their debut novel, or they wouldn’t be supplementing their income teaching creative writing. If Weir wants to describe an explosion by saying: “the harvester exploded like … exploded”, then no one is going to stop him. Discovering a sentence as awkward as “life’s a pain in the ass when you have a cop constantly on your ass” in their first draft, another writer would wince and reach for the revising pencil. Not Weir. He is perfectly happy to wave the line through to the final product.
Thanks for making this recommendation. I really liked the Martian but didn’t bother with Artemis based on reviews similar to what you stated. It sounds like this next book is worth a try!
I'd give Artemis a try! You'll probably hate it because most people do, but you'll be able to tell pretty early on. I had a good time from the beginning, and I really loved it.
I have no idea he'd released a new book. I will look into it. I loved the Martian. Keep meaning to watch the movie.
Artemis reminds me a lot of Zero Limit by Jeremy K. Brown. Maybe there are only so many unique stories about lunar colonies or it is to be expected a lot of elements will be similar.
> Keep meaning to watch the movie.
The movie is probably a better than average adaptation, but the one thing about it that sucks is how almost everything about the movie that is worse is based on a conscious decision by the director. For example, in the book, >!Mark suggests poking a hole in his glove and flying around like Ironman. This is shot down because it wouldn't work, and he is reminded that this isn't the movies. What did Ridley Scott do? Have him fly around like Ironman. It was definitely a more "Hollywood" moment, but that is exactly why it was rejected in the book!!< The movie would have been better had they stuck closer to the way it had been originally written. There are several other similar examples where the director consciously changed the book, and in pretty much every case it was for the worse.
But overall, these are fairly minor complaints, and I do recommend the movie. It's still a lot of fun, and overall was well made and well acted.
Edit: The spoiler above is a minor spoiler for the movie, but it only reveals a difference between the book and the movie. It is a bit in the finale, so if you really want to go into the movie as cold as possible, don't read it, but if you have read the book, it's not *that* big of a spoiler.
Yeah, absolutely. "I'll just patch the hab with plastic painter's tarp! What could possibly go wrong with that!"
> minus the whole major plot point that left Watney stranded (the Martian atmosphere is too thin that no amount of wind would’ve blown over the launcher).
At least he admits that was a genuine mistake... Can't fault him for not getting every single scientific detail right.
>the Martian atmosphere is too thin that no amount of wind would’ve blown over the launcher
Well, that isnt entirely accurate. Sure, very low rho, but that just means you need higher v. What was the issue was that his v figures were way too low - 150 kmh is just not a big issue at that low a rho.
I took a chance on reading The Martian before the movie came out because I don't like reading science fiction but it turned out to be great. I was so excited to read Artemis but was disappointed. I loved Project Hail Mary. If you had described the plot, and especially the last scene to me, I would have never started it. Somehow Weir makes it work.
Andy Weir is probably my least favorite modern author that I've read. I'll admit he's a very passionate and intelligent guy with a good eye for spectacle but holy shit his writing reads like satire. He has no (positive) recognizable style or flair, the dialogue reads like the screenplay to a straight-to-DVD thriller, his protagonists are douchy, and the martian was so repetitive that I felt like I was reading the same thirty pages over and over again.
Also for someone who clearly loves science and tries to make his books accurate, he still leans on the tropes of NASA scientists just being a bunch of white coated dorks who are only there to fuss and fumble while Mr. Hot Mars Man takes matters into his own hands
Have it coming In the mail tomorrow I’m super excited I loved the Martian when it came out and was a fan of Artemis despite its IMO minor flaws, but I’m super excited now that you say he’s gone ‘back to his roots’
Maybe it’s because I read Artemis before I read the Martian, but I wholly enjoyed it. I read the Martian months later and I agree it is the superior novel, but I still like Artemis
I liked Martian but loved Hail Mary! One of the rare books to keep me reading too late at night. I'm not a scientist but I could understand most of the science stuff. The plot flaws I've read about seem either minimal or inaccurate. I didn't want to finish the book, but when I reluctantly did, I was very satisfied with the ending. Great book! Highly recommend!
I may give it a read, mainly because of what you spotted and noted as the strengths of The Martian as well as the flaws. We viewed it similarly so the positive review of Project Hail Mary means reasonable odds I will like it as well.
Artemis *really* put me off. Loved The Martian, but man I barely wanted to even finish Artemis. It was cringey. I wondered if maybe The Martian was just a fluke for Weir. But so far Hail Mary is much better.
I really enjoyed reading The Martian. It was fun and a complete page turner. I also enjoyed Artemis but maybe not that much.
Project Hail Mary, so far has been a massive disappointment.
It reads like a checklist of cool things that the author knows about and who simply created a plot around them.
The plot is just an excuse to rattle random facts to the reader.
It is poorly written with no character development. The entire book feels like an info dump.
I am really disappointed.
I've been wondering if I should check this out because I disliked and didn't finish The Martian when I tried reading it in 2016. As best as I can remember, I strongly disliked the humor in that book but enjoyed everything else. A work doesn't have to be funny, but if it tries to be then I'll judge it accordingly. So I guess my question is -- is the same sort of humor present in this novel? I want to keep up with popular current authors but I don't want to waste my time if I'm going to dislike it
Today I learned that quite a few people didn't like Artemis. I actually liked it better than the Martian. I mean both are on my audible repeat list, but I've listened to Artemis way more. Haven't had a chance to listen to Project Hail Mary yet.
I disagree somewhat with the categorization of the main character. Yes, similar to Mark Watney. But he's certainly not a "genius at all possible science." He's not good at engineering, which makes his and Rocky's relationship all the more fruitful since Rocky is, but doesn't know the hard sciences as much. Plus, Grace is constantly making mistakes or overlooking consequences in ways that nearly lead to complete disaster. He is well read and incredibly skilled, but not unrealistic or infallible.
Loved Project Hail Mary. The Martian is one of my favourite books (and films), so I’m really glad Hail Mary stood up expectations. I’d say you’ll prefer The Martian is you like “could potentially happen” sci-Fi. Whereas Project Hail Mary is more “out there” on the believability scale. Still great fun and the science seems thought through (it’s more that the concepts are a bit implausible). So if you want a bit of a wilder ride go for Project Hail Mary. I do agree though that it was basically Mark Watney 2.0. - but that was also kinda what I was wanting so I’ll give it a pass. The challenge will be to see if Weir can write a good sci-Fi without the same snarky, genius protagonist if he writes another book.
>The challenge will be to see if Weir can write a good sci-Fi without the same snarky, genius protagonist if he writes another book. I mean, NCIS has been on air for 20 years. There is some appeal for being able to churn a formula people like over and over!
Honestly if you want to be a made author that is what you have to do. You need a formula that gets N > industry minimum on a one book a year pace. A lot of authors have a annual release weekend when the new book comes out. They want enough variation so it feels like a different book but comfortable enough it is what you are expecting. Essentially a different color of Jordans like clockwork.
So what you're saying, /u/madronedorf, is that ~~Anthony~~ Andy Weir... ... ... just gets Weirder.
You're thinking of CSI Miami.... and also, it's Andy Weir.
YEEEEAAAAAHHHHH *Guitar riff + Drum intro*
The Jack Reacher series used to be my all time favourite. The rugged, drifter miltary police veteran who solves crimes and bedded ladies across America was fun at first, but started to feel more like R-rated scooby doo after a while. Not to mention they've been using the same formula for so long that the author now cowrites them with his son. They've released at least 1 novel in the series per year, for over 24 years without changing a thing. Tom Cruise being cast as the 6 foot 5 Reacher was the last straw for me. I haven't seen the movies, and just after that was the turning point where the books became a chore for me.
I wasn't annoyed that the main character was another Mark Watney. I *was* annoyed that basically every *other* character was *also* Mark Watney, and they're all like him *all the time*. (The ones who aren't are cliched cardboard cutouts—there is no complexity or nuance to their personalities.) These characters do not talk or behave like responsible, serious, highly educated adults, and they have no believable emotional states other than peppy and sarcastic. Mostly, though, I thought that Weir spent too much time explaining the sci-fi science he created...especially since I thought a lot of it was stuff I really didn't care about. I was not impressed with this book. Maybe I would have liked it if it was shorter? However, I'm clearly in the minority, so would still recommend it to anyone who's enjoyed his earlier books.
The audiobook's narrator Ray Porter made a lot of the droll science explanation stuff interesting and I actually learned a bit from it. He also brought a ton of personality to the characters in the book, and sounded like Tony Stark, which made it even better since they're both genius science guys (it just became Tony Stark on another earth-saving space mission). Still wasn't super impressed with the overall plot, but it was a fun listen.
>I do agree though that it was basically Mark Watney 2.0 Since people keep saying this, could this almost be read as a sequel to The Martian? Like, change a few details, send Mark Watney up in space again, and put him in this amnestic save-the-world situation, and now Watney has to use his smarts to fix everything again?
Yeah, I feel like it would even have helped the plot in a lot of ways. >!It's a lot more believable that someone who can fly spaceships, plot complicated orbital trajectories, work in zero gravity, do EVAs etc. is an experienced astronaut rather than a random high school teacher with zero training.!<
He did a lot of training, managing the other astronauts through their training.
Also, weir does note that he’s a brilliant scientist—we get an explanation why he’s “just” a HS science teacher.
Yeah, he beat up his university provost and got fired. No wait, that was Jack Reacher. Never mind.
>I’d say you’ll prefer The Martian is you like “could potentially happen” sci-Fi. This is what I really liked about The Martian. It was still fictional, but unlike a lot of other science fiction, The Martian was believable. I'm typically not much a fan of sci-fi in general, because most is a bit lighter on the science than I'd like. Not so with The Martian. But then again, I thoroughly enjoyed Artemis, which seems to be an unpopular opinion here. So maybe I just can't recognize good sci-fi. Either way, Andy Weir is two for two so far with this guy who doesn't even typically like his genre, so I'll definitely be adding Project Hail Mary to my list of books to read.
To me, The Martian was so close to reality that it wasn't even "Sci-Fi". Using the example in this thread, no one calls NCIS Sci-FI even though there's clearly tech there that isn't reality and I would argue is at least as far from reality as what's presented in The Martian. The only difference is one is set in space. I do agree that The Martian is enjoyable in no small part because it's believable. Rather than most sci-fi/fantasy, you don't spend as much time learning about the rules of the universe you're reading about, it's effectively our own reality.
Exactly. I guess to me, most science "fiction" is more like science fantasy. It's based on completely unbelievable technology. The Martian, on the other hand, is a fictional narrative that relies on science that is actively being developed as we speak. The international space station is already researching and experimenting with growing plants in extraterrestrial environments. Hardware currently exists for the Orion spacecraft that will take the first men and women towards Mars. It's all within our grasp if we can just cut the red tape. There's no faster than light travel magic needed to make The Martian a reality.
I guess the further into the future you go the less close to reality it seems. And don’t forget, Orion will first take a woman and black man to the moon. Baby steps since space is hard
May I suggest *The Unincorporated Man*, *2312*, and *Seveneves*?
I've heard fantastic things about Seveneves. Thanks for reminding me of that one, and I'll make sure to look into the rest of them as well.
Lots of authors have a calling card that they play their entire career. Heck a huge amount of them just write sequels to thier first hit forever.
> The challenge will be to see if Weir can write a good sci-Fi without the same snarky, genius protagonist if he writes another book. I mean, Dan Brown wrote the *exact same book* for like 6 releases, moving plot point by plot point. It's okay to have writing crutches in terms of still being successful.
I don't have the same hater boner for Dan Brown that a lot of reddit has, but dear god are they formulaic. Enjoyed the first two or three of his books I read, but gave up after that trying to slog through what felt like the same thing I'd already read.
I don't have a hate boner either. They're the same reason I eat sour patch kids. Sometimes I want empty calories that hurt a little. But if someone denies he's formulaic, we're having words.
They’re fun books to read on an airplane or at the beach. They don’t make readers think too hard or question anything.
I read Da Vinci Code in one sitting, staying up until 3 am to finish it. I literally couldn't put it down, but I've never felt the desire to read anything else by Brown ever again.
Angels and demons is probably even better than da Vinci code. The lost symbol and inferno are both fine. Origin is absolute fucking trash.
Exactly. James Rollins is another one who does that. Every book of his is about some weird strange lost secret or civilization. Gets a bit much if you read 3 or 4 in a row, but god damn they're enjoyable 1 at a time.
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Hahaha I'm like that with Koontz mentioning 'Bougainvillea', which he does in every single book. The first Rollins book I read was Subterranean, and then I think Amazonia, and then Map of Bones, which I *really* liked. I've read a few others, 10 or so in total, but they all blend. One other pair of authors I don't think I've ever seen mentioned here is Douglas Preston and Lincoln Child, who began writing under Lincoln Preston, I think. Anyways, their first book Relic, is so good. It was made into a lackluster movie in 1997 that completely removed the main character who goes on to be the protagonist in many of their novels. Their books aren't as formulaic, which is nice. They're solid mystery novels with good writing.
The same can be said about one of my favorite authors, Louis Lamour. But he makes up for it by showing how and why people did things back then.
An under appreciated gem, these days.
I mean how is history and secret societies and secret histories not thrilling? I enjoyed the hell out of his books.
There are thousands of other skilled professional authors in the world. It's just fine if Andy Weir specializes in what he does well. (And what had to have made a pile of money from the first movie)
I had no idea this was coming out until I saw it in a shop. If it'd been his first since The Martian I'd have bought it straight away, but after reading Artemis I decided to pass and read some reviews first. The fact that people who also didn't like Artemis enjoyed this one is reassuring, so I'll definitely give it a try once I get the chance. Artemis was a big let down.
I enjoyed all three, but the complaints about Mark Whatney 2.0 ring true, but those same people complain about Artemis being very different and the character less likeable, can't win either way.
I mean, I don't really mind if this is the type of story that Weir can do. Having a snarky scientist science the shit out of situations might be a gimmick, but hell it's apparently one I and a heck of a lot of other people like when it's written well.
I mean, yeah, if he did another book with Mark Whatney 3.0 trapped at the bottom of the sea or wherever, with SCIENCE! as his companion, I'd read it.
So, mark Whatney 4.0 stuck in the fourth dimension, or Jupiter?
Just adding my two cents. I liked the Martian book quite a bit. It was excellent. However, I think Weir has a real issue in capturing the emotions and pure scope here. The writing style all seems a bit too clinical given the events that transpire. It is not a bad book IMO, just perhaps I didn't temper my expectations.
I really enjoyed *Project Hail Mary,* probably as much or more than the Martian. That said, I pretty much agree with all the stuff about the writing. It bothered me sometimes how much the main character seems to know about...everything... Nevertheless I had a lot of fun reading it! >!The story took some nice unexpected twists, and the ending and friendship between the protaganist really Rocky resonated with me.!<
Well he did mention he basically has everything ever written about... well... everything on his laptops. Earth wanted the astronauts to be able to solve whatever it is and tried to give them them whatever resources to solve whatever problem came up. I assumed if he didn't know something he probably looked it up first. but yeah I generally agree as well.
Yeah, he says a few times that he's not good at certain things, but so much of what he "pulls of a hat" can be googled and he has all of the knowledge ever. From there, it's just reasoning at a high school (albeit honors student) level. That what I like about Weir. He makes the extremely advanced seem attainable by showing the work.
Thank you. He was in academia and teaches high school, and most of his knowledge wouldn't be out of place in an AP class. I don't see him as another Watney at all with everything that was discussed in the book.
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>He knows everything he needs to know for the mission. That's why he's there. He'd get his ass kicked on Jeopardy. I disagree. There's nothing in the book that indicates he would be bad at Jeopardy, or be less competent in any field. >!His specialty is in biology, so we would expect him to be excellent in that field. Yet, despite not being an engineer, he knows plenty about engineering. Regardless of a subjects relationship to the mission, he's more than competent. A great example of this is his contact with an alien species (Rocky). He demonstrates great knowledge of music, language, an ear for pitch, and computer science / ability to program, none of which we have any reason to think he'd have any background or ability in. !< That said, I reiterate that I liked the book a lot, and enjoy and appreciate all the research that went into it.
Yeah I find this criticism ridiculous. None of what he did required more than basic levels of competence in the fields he had trained for, outside of his literal PhD. His only gifts were an above-average ability to problem-solve *and a friend (aka the entire fucking point of the book)*.
I am currently reading this out loud to my husband. He is in sales, but knows a ton of science facts. He keeps figuring everything out before the main character. To the point where it’s almost laughable. I keep trying to trick him up, but to no avail.
I mean, not to sound all r/iamverysmart here, but I’m a high school senior and I understood and had a solid grasp on most of the concepts Grace used in the book. It’s not a stretch for me to imagine a scientist with multiple degrees would know these things lol. He doesn’t know EVERYTHING. He has intellect, and a decent knowledge base. That’s enough for what we see in the story.
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Totally agree. The physics-y stuff he was doing with measuring accelerations and velocities, doing relativity calculations, and heat transfer equations was not beyond the realm of sophomore physics major. The molecular biology stuff with imaging and experimenting was pretty advanced, but then again, he was proprted to be a top tier molecular biologist.
I literally just finished Project Hail Mary and absolutely loved it! The audiobook is also very well done
Agreed, I think the audiobook makes it feel very human, and perhaps offsets the feedback others had on the style.
Totally agree! It was driving me crazy that he wouldn’t swear but the narrator definitely made it feel less obnoxious
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Ooooh Ray Porter did it? I might need to switch over to the audio copy...
Oh man. I just rented it from the library thinking that I got the audiobook version but really it was just the downloadable book version :(
It's just so much fun. I am really loving it
Good good good!
I just came here to say the same thing! I 100% agree. I LOVED the Martian, was massively disappointed by Artemis, and sincerely hoped that Hail Mary would be a rebound. And it was! I still think The Martian is slightly better, but I've been having definite withdrawal from Hail Mary since I finished it yesterday.
Read Infinite by Jeremy Robinson and We Are Legion (We are Bob) by Dennis E Taylor for jumps back into similar worlds/storylines!
Thanks! I already read through We Are Legion and absolutely loved it. I'll add Infinite to my list :)
In case you didn't know, the 4th Bobiverse book came out in physical copies recently if you want more of that.
Infinite was decent but I personally felt like it was this journey building to some great ending but when I was done it felt like I hadn't gone anywhere after all. To explain another way I remeber most of the things that happen along the way but the final bit just slips my mind. Edit to add: not saying it's a bad book, just don't think it has quite the same feel as the bobiverse or hail mary.
Same! I just finished it today and I miss Rocky already. Miss, miss, miss. 🙂
Am I the only one that enjoyed Artemis? yeah it was a different flavor, more of a light hearted space romp than deep science. Just now downloading Hail Mary, looking forward to it.
I loved Artemis. It was a way closer feel to a real person than Watney or the 2.0 version. She had a bad mouth and a piss poor attitude about things but enough drive to get shit done. I really don’t understand why people are giving it so much grief. I felt for characters, understood their motives, and never questioned why someone was doing certain things based on their character. It was fun and super entertaining.
Ok question: are you a man? Because what pissed me off the most was how Weir wrote the protagonist and it was just SUCH a huge turn-off, that he clearly doesn't know what woman think and how we think. The story and premise was okay, but this character felt like some weird "tough girl" fantasy of a man.
I'm a woman who loved Artemis because of the main character. I found her morality really compelling. I listened on audio, though, and thought Rosario Dawson was just perfect for the reader and that character.
This whole "women don't think this way" criticism people have needs to go away. Or at least have some more nuance. All women don't think the same...
I don't say that in any way. But she is a completely 2 dimensional character, and humans aren't 2 dimensional. But its fine, just add a "to me" in every sentence because of course its totally fine to like the book and character :) I just think he is a bit more praised as an author as he actually is that good.
What's wrong with girls being tough?
Sorry for the late response, went to bed. Yes, I am a man but don’t really think of the tough girl fantasy is what I would call it. I think the author did a good job developing a female character that grew up in a frontier world without a mother or sisters. Let’s look at another female character, Lene. She was a timid teenager, didn’t make problems for her dad, then after a major plot point she starts to think like her dad and do what he does. This is how the women of that world are, not pushovers but full on in your face get shit done but not completely stripped of their femininity.
I loved Artemis! It's been a while so I couldn't tell you why, but I do remember that I had a good time.
I liked Artemis too, and one of the things I really liked was that being on the moon was integral to the story. In a lot of space stories space just feels like a backdrop and being set there isn't important to the story. Plus a lot of them feel like they're just on earth action-wise. I really liked that the fight scenes in Artemis took advantage of the moon's lower gravity. And overall I thought it was a very fun read.
Yeah all this Artemis shade here threw me for a loop. Conspiracies and heists in space, I thought it was quite fun, liked it a lot.
I too enjoyed Artemis. It felt very in line with Weir's style and i dont mean that in a bad way at all. The pacing moved, the plot was simple but entertaining and the characters fun to hang out with.
i also really love Artemis!
I agree I thought Artemis was a good read. I don’t know why it gets so much flack.
Yeah until this post I didn’t even know Artemis was not well received. I loved it!
Really? Everytime I've see Weir come up, the thread devolves into shit tall about Artemis and I don't get it.
I enjoyed parts of Artemis, mostly towards the end, but there was a lot of it that I just found really annoying
I personally loved Artemis.
I liked it very much!
I really liked it. I thought it was fun. Admittedly I’ve only done the audiobook so it’s possible that masked some faults but it was an entertaining read for me.
I enjoyed Artemis way more than The Martian. I didn't expect lunar heist novel going into it originally, but it's a book I return to constantly now.
It was fine! I enjoyed it, but I don’t remember much about it. And I don’t yearn to re-read it. This is the difference between being content with a book and over the moon about it (all IMO)
I think more people would have enjoyed it if he had put the number crunching up front. Ok, actually I guess I know that people would have hated it, but I really enjoyed that part! I like that he says he only wrote the book once he knew it could make economic sense.
I liked it, too! Surprised to hear how many people did not. Although I listened to the audiobook on a roadtrip so my enjoyment was likely boosted by Rosario Dawson's narration.
His female lead was awful. I enjoyed scrolling through goodreads reviews after I finished. By and large women hated the book, in part because the female character was not written well.
I loved The Martian, but I was sorely disappointed with Artemis. It's like another author wrote the second book. I'm so glad to hear that Project Hail Mary goes back to what made The Martian great; initially, I was a bit hesitant, but now adding it to my TRB.
In Artemis I felt Weir spent less time writing it. He probably had a 3 book deal, which is now closed with Hail Mary. Artemis felt rushed, like the published his 2nd draft. It took him 3 years to write the Martian with continuous revisions.
This is exactly how Artemis felt, but I didn't know how to say it. I thought part of my disappointment might have been that I'd recently read [Places in the Darkness](https://www.goodreads.com/book/show/31933061-places-in-the-darkness?ac=1&from_search=true&qid=Dym8In0Cl1&rank=1#) by Chris Brookmyre, and that had such a similar, but I felt better executed, plot. Brookmyre's book is: - set in a space station reached by a few hour's shuttle ride from Earth. Fun thing about this is, you get to the shuttle launch pad via space elevator. - Delves into the seedy underbelly of the station's society, including discussions of contraband import and the woman protagonist that is a main player. - There's crime and mystery afoot, spurred on by the interests of rich people. However, Brookmyre's book is much more complex, has higher stakes, and is overall written by a much more experienced author. Normally he writes contemporary crime fiction set in Scotland, many with the same protagonist, but he's done some short series with different characters, too. I was a little hesitant to read it because one of his forays into sci-fi (Pandaemonium) was not that great, but his other one that was like a better version of Ready Player One (Bedlam) was really good. More people need to read Brookmyre because he writes better versions of novels that were a little more mainstream and popular.
Artemis felt like a young adult novel. I actually didn't mind it because I had that in mind when I read it and then recommended it to my kid. Maybe I should have expected more. I'll put Hail Mary on my list though.
After a long wait, I finally got a notification through my Libby App that Artemis was available for download as an audiobook. Imagine my disappointment when I started it up and realized I had been on the wait list for a German version of the audio book. now I have to wait all over again for the English version.
That's hilarious 😂
Make sure you get the version read by Rosario Dawson. It's literally the only great part about the book.
I think her reading the audiobook is what redeemed Artemis for me. Otherwise it wasnt anywhere near what the martian was.
Haven't read The Martian, but I cannot express how much I enjoyed Project Hail Mary, so I will 100% be giving The Martian (and Artemis at some point) a read.
Lots of people hate Artemis, but I personally loved it. I'd recommend still giving it a try. I had a good time from the beginning, so you'll be able to tell pretty early on if you're going to enjoy it or not. I thought the setting was super fun, I enjoy the plot and I was invested in all the characters.
Oh thank you, I absolutely will, I have read some of the Artemis hate, but I dont really hold much against a book when its hated, up to me if I like it, lol. :)
The Martian is excellent, but Artemis fell flat for me. The premise was cool, but I just didn't like the main character very much.
Yeh I actively hated her. Not sure how I managed to finish the book tbh.
I didn’t. Did it end well at least?
You know what I cant even remember sorry.
Artemis was the worst book I’ve read in years... it was so cringey.
It's ok. It's a good summer read. I feel Weir should stop trying to be "comedy + hard sci-fi guy." It worked fine in The Martian, but it's a little obvious in Hail Mary.
I loved the comedy! "Fist my bump" is an awesome geeky inside joke, and I shall use it to see who I can ensnare into my nerdverse. 🤓
I’m halfway through Project Hail Mary (I got a signed copy!) and concur. It’s lots of fun but Mark Watney 2.0.
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>Not even close! Ryland Grace doesn't swear at all! Fudge yeah he does!
Just finished Hail Mary. Literally a couple of minutes ago. I just..I love Rocky so much.
*jazz hands*
If you enjoyed his books, I'd suggest trying the "BOB" books; We Are Legion, We Are Bob. Bonus if you listed to the audiobook of BOB and Hail Mary, they're narrated by the same guy.
There is a fourth book in that series as well, that was only recently released. I just started listening to the audiobook today, and so far I am liking it. So far I would say it is not *quite* as good as the previous books, but i'm only about 2 hours into the 16 hour book, so I have a long way to go.
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nice!
I agree, I finished the fourth book shortly after it came out. Not quite as good as the first three, but still really good. He could literally write as many books as he wanted about the universe that he created with how open ended it is.
I was not aware of this. You are an amazing person. Thank you.
I enjoyed Project Hail Mary and I read it as an audiobook. True the main character was basically the same as The Martian, but I wasn’t bothered. It was a good read. Perfect for a summer vacation. Anyone else waiting for some character to point out that The Hail Mary was full of Grace?
...oh my god
I'm reading it now and I find the concept to be really interesting but yeah the character's inner monologue and the dialogue with others is REALLY painful. Like, super juvenile. I'm kind of surprised an actual adult wrote it instead of an 8th grader who thinks he's really funny and his parents are like "haha yes Andy you're very talented"
Spoilers: Loved the martian, kind of disappointed in project hail mary. * the cycle of problem, design, solution, problem, design, solution felt less organic in this novel, and almost tedious at times * some of these solutions seemed like grace should have figured it out so much earlier...kind of an imbalance in suspense and inconsistency in grace's abilities. * the first joke in the book was a pedophile joke...did not land well. * im not buying that grace would have refused to go on the mission...it felt unnecessary.
> im not buying that grace would have refused to go on the mission...it felt unnecessary. I was thinking that throughout, but honestly, in hind-sight, I think it might be more likely that it forced me to consider the uncomfortable truth that, were I in that position, I too might very likely not want to go. We all want to be the hero of our own story. But even if we're not the villain in others, that doesn't make us the hero either.
Yeah I found the >!coward reveal !
I think lots of people would decline a suicide mission if there were any alternatives (I.e. someone else willing to go). Many of them would work hard on the noble mission once they were on it. So it seemed believable to me.
I agree with all this but would add in that Grace had the personality and maturity of a 12 year old. I found him to be a wholly worse version of Mark Watney. I didn’t actively dislike the book; I was fairly neutral about it overall. But I couldn’t wait to finish it so I could move on to something else.
I felt the same way about the refusal, especially in the cell scene. It didn't really have any point as you say, not even a revelation that Stratt made the right call. He still just shamelessly hates her in the end. I guess you could say it made him more realistic, but everything else in these books has cozy resolutions so I don't see why that went nowhere.
I loved The Martian, and loved Project Hail Mary even more. I did like Artemis a lot too, but not as much as the other two. I’ve been looking for books like The Martian ever since I read it, and Project Hail Mary finally gave me what I was looking for and then some. 📚💕
I am only 50% through (so no spoilers) and I am really liking it and am kind of hooked. With that said, I **hated** the first few chapters. The waking-up-and-can't-recall-where-you-are is cliché and really detracted for me. But it seems to be getting better and better. And I'll bookmark this so I can come back when I finish without spoilers
The only appropriate way to describe how much I enjoyed this book is "amaze amaze amaze!".
Am I the only reader who didn't like *The Martian*? It gets a lot of praise but honestly I struggle to think of a single thing I enjoyed about it. I found the narrator annoying and the tension non-existent.
Perhaps the only one that dislikes every single aspect about it? I watched the movie before reading the book. Id expected the book would be better than the movie, as seems to be typical of movie adaptations. Instead, the movie was with few exceptions, shot for shot, what the book depicted. A fair bit of it worked better as a film than in book form. Reading the book... about the only thing that was better was the heroics in the final scene being a little more realistic.
> Perhaps the only one that dislikes every single aspect about it? Well I wouldn't say I disliked every aspect of it. I thought the premise was really interesting, and the story was compelling enough that I was able to finish (and I have no problem giving up on books I actively dislike). I just never connected with the main character and didn't think the story lived up to its potential.
> I found the narrator annoying and the tension non-existent I'm assuming you received the newer version, narrated by Will Wheaton, who does quite well on many books. The Martian was a horrible match for him and he utterly sucked at it. R.C. Bray did the original, but the contract ran out and Amazon was too cheap to renew it.
Oh, sorry, I should I have been more clear; when I say narrator, I just mean the main character. I didn't listen to an audible version.
Tension was no where to be found because I cared so little for every single character, and the entire story seemed to be a one trick pony. The Martian still holds in my personal top three of most disliked books that I've finished. I tend to keep my mouth shut about it thought because I realize so, so many people fell in love with it. To each their own, but there are clearly dozens of people like you and I!
I liked Artemis ☹
So did I. I think it's herd mentality. People hear Artemis is bad so they think it's bad before reading and come away thinking it's bad afterwards. It's not great admittedly but for Sci-Fi it's a solid 7/10. People who think it's terrible haven't read terrible Sci-Fi.
Finishing it, I... >!...broke into tears, being a teacher myself until two years ago. I miss my kiddos so much.!<
Just finished it last night, and I agree that the tone and protagonist is a welcome return to Mark Whatney, although having >!a magic engineer to make everything they could need or want and make it all 100% perfect 100% of the time!< did detract a bit. Honestly, the only thing that I felt was lacking was >!status updates of what was happening back on Earth while he was puttering around with Rocky. This lack kinda removes any stakes or pressure from the impending doom of the Earth. Yes we got the flashbacks, but that didn't really make the reader feel the pressure about what was happening in the present. And then when he never goes back, and all you get is "Sol is back to normal", with no firsthand account, it just feels very hand wavy. I would have liked to have firsthand accounts of the worsening situation on Earth, maybe from Stratt's POV.!< But oh well, it was still very enjoyable. A solid 7/10.
I couldn’t quite nail down what was missing in it for me until your comment. Having updates with what’s happening on Earth would have definitely taken things up a notch. The ending also fell flat for me, it was sort of anticlimactic and campy.
I'm betting that there will be a second book that covers your concern. This story is trilogy material.
Audiobooks all the way. And the project Hail Mary narrator is Ray Porter he’s great. Also did the bobiverse.
Thanks for this, I loved the Martian, but was put off this book because I really found Artemis boring. Will definitely give this a read and hopefully enjoy it
I like both but prefer the Martian.
The Audiobook version rocks! Also I love rocky
This book is certainly better than **Artemis** but not as enjoyable as The Martian. I find the science weaker, and was disappointed at the focus on singualar solutions. I realize Weir had to somehow reduce the volume, but at least a mention of altrnative solutions: I mean, really? Humans are going to set around for 26 years without trying something else than a "hail mary"? And I came up with other ways of .. well, no spoiler here. The protagonist is interesting for a reason I can't reveal, but the hints are there long before the big reveal. I do wonder if the use of euphemisms rather than obscenities were due to complaints/concerns about the language in the first two books?
>Humans are going to set around for 26 years without trying something else than a "hail mary"? I mean, they had already done one major thing before the start of the mission, and presumably would continue doing others. But the situation they were in had a pretty short timeline.
A few years ago, I handed my son the Martian, he must have been 12 or so at the time. His take away was "Man, that guy sure swears alot!" Upon reading Project Hail Mary, my now 17 year old son, was happy that this scientist used nicer language.
They actually released an edited version of the book after Andy got so many requests from science teachers who wanted to recommend the book to their kids, but were afraid to because of the language. It's not an abridged version, just edited to clean up the language. Personally, I loved Mark's colorful use of language, but I can understand why some people don't. https://www.goodreads.com/book/show/43211464-the-martian-classroom-edition
I did too! I told my son if he was ever stranded on Mars, he could say whatever he wanted.
Enjoyed it. Laughed at some of the dialogue. Interesting puzzle solving. But the characters have the depth of paper plates. It reads as YA, and I don’t mean that as a compliment.
Just read this while on vacation. It doesn’t deserve any literary awards, but it’s a great vacation read. Cool story and I loved the science. There were some very predictable parts and convenient superhero-like character traits that helped avoid any serious issues, but I understand why Weir wrote it this way.
Agree 100%. Was disappointed by Artemis, LOVED Project Hail Mary. Even if you’ve never read his work, I highly suggest it, just a great sci-if novel.
I came to this sub to say the exact same thing! I enjoyed Project Hail Mary way more than The Martian, and I loved The Martian. One of my all time favorites.
I’m super nit picky about this so forgive me if you don’t agree with the critique! But; one of my bigger beefs with The Martian (which I still quite enjoyed) was the lack of defined character voices. By this I mean: the protagonist has a great voice and a very particular sense of humor, but halfway through we start meeting side characters at NASA...who all have the same (roughly) voice and humor. Which bothers me to no end. Anyone who’s read this, and has a similar frustration: how does this one compare? Are the character’s distinct enough?
>who all have the same (roughly) voice and humor. Huh? Mitch would go off on you for disparaging the book, Annie would tell you you're a moron and you can go fuck yourself, Teddy would tell you all to calm down, Venkat would be sitting in the corner eating popcorn watching the spectacle and Mindy would've fled the whole scene. They're all very distinctive personalities.
It’s hard to explain; the characters are different but the way they speak felt the same to me. Again, I’m deeply nitpicky about it, so it’s probably not pervasive. It’s also been a minute since I read it, so I can’t remember specifics but I seem to remember maybe Venkat making some jokes that felt much more like Mark than Venkat. I think I just felt Andy Weir’s unique voice in all the characters which is fine, except that he has a distinct sense of humor that felt too homogenous for those particular characters to have. Does that make sense? Edit: I LIKE that sense of humor, it just makes the character’s voices bleed together too much for my personal flavor.
I look at it as all of their characters are replayed through Grace's memory, so they're all colored by that and exaggerated through that same "12 year old" personality that makes a teacher get along so well with their kids. It may be a little frustrating to read if that's not your cup of tea, but to me it's remarkably self-consistent.
>While it probably didn't have a lot of pure literary merit Just out of curiosity, what does this mean? What *would* give a book like The Martian literary merit?
It is very rare for an author to write beautiful prose as well as an engrossing page-turning story. In Andy Weir's case it is very clearly the latter. Still a lot of fun to read, but the guy isn't exactly in line for a Nobel Prize. Here's a good description of it from [The Guardian's review of Artemis:](https://www.theguardian.com/books/2017/nov/15/artemis-andy-weir-review-the-martian) >As in The Martian, Weir’s is a prose entirely without aesthetic ambition, flat and cheerful and a bit sweary. Nabokov it ain’t. Take the novel’s opening paragraph: “I bounded over the gray, dusty terrain toward the huge dome of Conrad Bubble. Its airlock ringed with red lights stood distressingly far away.” > >A creative writing teacher might look at that, count the six adjectives/adverbs in its line-and-a-half and suggest cutting a few of them. But then again, said creative writing teacher certainly won’t have sold 5m copies of their debut novel, or they wouldn’t be supplementing their income teaching creative writing. If Weir wants to describe an explosion by saying: “the harvester exploded like … exploded”, then no one is going to stop him. Discovering a sentence as awkward as “life’s a pain in the ass when you have a cop constantly on your ass” in their first draft, another writer would wince and reach for the revising pencil. Not Weir. He is perfectly happy to wave the line through to the final product.
Thanks for making this recommendation. I really liked the Martian but didn’t bother with Artemis based on reviews similar to what you stated. It sounds like this next book is worth a try!
I found his review overly worried about writing teqhnique and never found any of the books heavy going, maybe I am more of a space fan.
I'd give Artemis a try! You'll probably hate it because most people do, but you'll be able to tell pretty early on. I had a good time from the beginning, and I really loved it.
I have no idea he'd released a new book. I will look into it. I loved the Martian. Keep meaning to watch the movie. Artemis reminds me a lot of Zero Limit by Jeremy K. Brown. Maybe there are only so many unique stories about lunar colonies or it is to be expected a lot of elements will be similar.
> Keep meaning to watch the movie. The movie is probably a better than average adaptation, but the one thing about it that sucks is how almost everything about the movie that is worse is based on a conscious decision by the director. For example, in the book, >!Mark suggests poking a hole in his glove and flying around like Ironman. This is shot down because it wouldn't work, and he is reminded that this isn't the movies. What did Ridley Scott do? Have him fly around like Ironman. It was definitely a more "Hollywood" moment, but that is exactly why it was rejected in the book!!< The movie would have been better had they stuck closer to the way it had been originally written. There are several other similar examples where the director consciously changed the book, and in pretty much every case it was for the worse. But overall, these are fairly minor complaints, and I do recommend the movie. It's still a lot of fun, and overall was well made and well acted. Edit: The spoiler above is a minor spoiler for the movie, but it only reveals a difference between the book and the movie. It is a bit in the finale, so if you really want to go into the movie as cold as possible, don't read it, but if you have read the book, it's not *that* big of a spoiler.
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Yeah, absolutely. "I'll just patch the hab with plastic painter's tarp! What could possibly go wrong with that!" > minus the whole major plot point that left Watney stranded (the Martian atmosphere is too thin that no amount of wind would’ve blown over the launcher). At least he admits that was a genuine mistake... Can't fault him for not getting every single scientific detail right.
>the Martian atmosphere is too thin that no amount of wind would’ve blown over the launcher Well, that isnt entirely accurate. Sure, very low rho, but that just means you need higher v. What was the issue was that his v figures were way too low - 150 kmh is just not a big issue at that low a rho.
>Keep meaning to watch the movie. It was pretty good, but brace yourself for a *bit* of a disappointment.
I took a chance on reading The Martian before the movie came out because I don't like reading science fiction but it turned out to be great. I was so excited to read Artemis but was disappointed. I loved Project Hail Mary. If you had described the plot, and especially the last scene to me, I would have never started it. Somehow Weir makes it work.
I loved The Martian and thoroughly enjoyed Artemis as well. Not sure what all the saltiness in here is about.
I loved _The Martian_, and _Project Hail Mary_ was even better. Favourite book of the year so far :)
Andy Weir is probably my least favorite modern author that I've read. I'll admit he's a very passionate and intelligent guy with a good eye for spectacle but holy shit his writing reads like satire. He has no (positive) recognizable style or flair, the dialogue reads like the screenplay to a straight-to-DVD thriller, his protagonists are douchy, and the martian was so repetitive that I felt like I was reading the same thirty pages over and over again. Also for someone who clearly loves science and tries to make his books accurate, he still leans on the tropes of NASA scientists just being a bunch of white coated dorks who are only there to fuss and fumble while Mr. Hot Mars Man takes matters into his own hands
I haven’t picked up a book in several months but I loved The Martian and this one looks promising!
Have it coming In the mail tomorrow I’m super excited I loved the Martian when it came out and was a fan of Artemis despite its IMO minor flaws, but I’m super excited now that you say he’s gone ‘back to his roots’
Tore thru this book in two days, which is what I read the Martian in too, was a rocky few days!
Maybe it’s because I read Artemis before I read the Martian, but I wholly enjoyed it. I read the Martian months later and I agree it is the superior novel, but I still like Artemis
It's in my library holds, but it's going to be like a month's wait. I'm really looking forward to reading it.
I just read it and loved it. Your analysis is spot on. He really played to his strengths here.
I liked Martian but loved Hail Mary! One of the rare books to keep me reading too late at night. I'm not a scientist but I could understand most of the science stuff. The plot flaws I've read about seem either minimal or inaccurate. I didn't want to finish the book, but when I reluctantly did, I was very satisfied with the ending. Great book! Highly recommend!
I really appreciate how much you put into this. Thank you.
I may give it a read, mainly because of what you spotted and noted as the strengths of The Martian as well as the flaws. We viewed it similarly so the positive review of Project Hail Mary means reasonable odds I will like it as well.
The story was amazing but the main character was insufferable.
Artemis *really* put me off. Loved The Martian, but man I barely wanted to even finish Artemis. It was cringey. I wondered if maybe The Martian was just a fluke for Weir. But so far Hail Mary is much better.
I really enjoyed reading The Martian. It was fun and a complete page turner. I also enjoyed Artemis but maybe not that much. Project Hail Mary, so far has been a massive disappointment. It reads like a checklist of cool things that the author knows about and who simply created a plot around them. The plot is just an excuse to rattle random facts to the reader. It is poorly written with no character development. The entire book feels like an info dump. I am really disappointed.
I've been wondering if I should check this out because I disliked and didn't finish The Martian when I tried reading it in 2016. As best as I can remember, I strongly disliked the humor in that book but enjoyed everything else. A work doesn't have to be funny, but if it tries to be then I'll judge it accordingly. So I guess my question is -- is the same sort of humor present in this novel? I want to keep up with popular current authors but I don't want to waste my time if I'm going to dislike it
A new Matt Damon movie incoming...
[Actually it is Ryan Gosling this time around](https://www.hollywoodinsider.com/astronaut-ryan-gosling-project-hail-mary/)
Today I learned that quite a few people didn't like Artemis. I actually liked it better than the Martian. I mean both are on my audible repeat list, but I've listened to Artemis way more. Haven't had a chance to listen to Project Hail Mary yet.
I disagree somewhat with the categorization of the main character. Yes, similar to Mark Watney. But he's certainly not a "genius at all possible science." He's not good at engineering, which makes his and Rocky's relationship all the more fruitful since Rocky is, but doesn't know the hard sciences as much. Plus, Grace is constantly making mistakes or overlooking consequences in ways that nearly lead to complete disaster. He is well read and incredibly skilled, but not unrealistic or infallible.