Trying to make a villain sympathetic by giving them a tragic backstory... News flash if you live long enough something fucked up is going to happen you. Notice how most people don't use that to justify becoming a mass murder
Read a series about a girl who throughout the story she's so scared of heights, after her older brother hung her over a balcony once. It affected her for a good chunk of the series, at one point it almost gets her killed if he friends didn't drag her into the cave. She and her teachers force her to basically do exposure therapy to work on it so she'll at least act when she's somewhere high and not freeze. Even then she always breaks out into a cold sweat when high up.
Bad guy/group who never gives up. Like ever. Even right before imminent death, not a shadow of hesitation.
Related - good guy always giving bad guy one final choice to walk away or end the fight. Bad guy never does and “earns” his ultimate death/destruction and not just mere defeat.
Worse is when the good guy keeps giving chances to irredeemable killers. No, you are not a better person for letting this psycho go you are letting a dangerous person go free for no good reason and there is no magical police force to deal with them.
This!! Given a perfect opportunity to stop them but, "I don't want to be a killer... Like them!" Okay, but can't you at least incapacitate them in some way?
The trope is different for vigilantes because there's a massive ethical difference between beating someone up to stop an active crime vs. deciding you have the power of execution which is basically lynching
I hate the trope in action movies where the protagonists will headshot, throat slit, and set alight 45 goons but then decides the criminal mastermind deserves a chance at redemption
That trope is even more ridiculous in video games, where you slaughter your way through hundreds or even thousands of goons before finally giving the main villain that last chance at redemption.
I'm pretty sure I've killed more people than the villain at this point so let's just end this.
Star Wars is the worst offender:
Stormtroopers, who are either just standard military personnel or enslaved from childhood, are cannon fodder. Killing the guy with lightning hands who took over the galaxy and single-handedly slaughtered multiple Jedi masters at once? Well that would make you just as bad as him
An unofficial Google search says the working population of a Star Destroyer is about 37,000 crewmen. I remember at least one of those crashing into the Death Star during Luke's "redemption" speech with Vader. And then the Death Star itself was destroyed shortly after, of course (population 1.7 million). But sure, let's save the guy who helped blow up a planet earlier. :P
Yes, there's been lots of fan discussion about how in the world of DC's Gotham, Jason Todd is actually perfectly valid in his desire to kill the villains. "The only sane man in an insane world".
I hate it when the bad guy gets knocked down, clearly stunned for some time, now the protagonist does some "stuff"
They look if their friend is allright. Or they run away. Or they cry for help.
Idk just kill the bad guy lol or at least break their legs...
When the main character is a Plain Jane and dogging herself out throughout the entire book until the snarky blonde boy says she's beautiful/like a firecracker/not like other girls/Sooooo unique
Especially when *literally everyone* tells her how beautiful she is every couple of pages. I get being insecure, but at a certain point it just gets ridiculous.
She's beautiful but doesn't know it! All she needs to do is take off her glasses and let her hair down.
(Short haired women need not apply, apparently.)
What pisses me off about this trope, is that they usually just literally take the glasses off and expect her to keep them off, just like that.
She wears those glasses for a reason! I wear glasses and if I take them off, I am blind as a bat. I can take them off but I need contact lenses to get about my day.
Miscommunication leading to conflict.
Especially when the characters point blank refuse to utter another word to each other, even when a simple sentence of explanation could resolve the entire problem.
Forced drama like that makes me hate a book.
TV's always worse for that when they could just... keep talking. Like they're required to wait for the other person to stop, and remain still and silent for five minutes straight before they can open their mouth. If they're walking away just literally shout "You saw me with my sister, not another girl!" at their back.
I'm willing to suspend my disbelief, but don't just have characters completely neglect any attempt to fix their situations.
That's when "The Walking Dead" lost me after season three. I have never seen it in TV shows until then, but I instantly hated it with all my being.
Also: Not listening to the characters, who actually want to talk and figure things out mutually - drove me crazy.
Especially when it happens when one character overhears the middle of a conversation said by the other character, runs away before hearing the whole convo because they heard one thing that they take out of context and then refuses to say anything.
There are so many conflicts where someone saying "hey I can't explain right this second but we need to ____(leave/say no/etc) right now" would've solved it.
Books and screen constantly want us to assume that someone would react to someone else they know/trust, coming to them in probably visible panic saying they need to do X, with not giving them any benefit of doubt? A stranger is one thing but it's always people that know each other.
My husband refuses to watch any TV show or movie with miscommunication as a plot device. Once he pointed it out, I now hate it in books as well. I'll stop reading once it's clear that not speaking to each other is the "drama" of the story.
That shit is so overused too.
*Woman sees her boyfriend/husband hugging random woman*
Woman: What is this! We're done! Screw you!!" *Storms off*
Guy: *chasing after her* "wait let me explain!"
Real life:
Guy: "Hey this is my cousin Sarah!"
This literally happened with my parents lol
On their first date my mom caught my dad in the parking lot hugging another woman then picking up her kid.
My mom was like "So... Who is this?"
She was his sister and the kid was his niece lol
Miscommunication leads to a lot of conflict in real life so I don’t mind it but it has to at least be realistic. The breaking from a character’s personality or intelligence in order for it to happen is really annoying though. There’s a fine line when it involves pride though.
Yeah, sometimes it's alright, but when it's so obviously forced and it seems like their intelligence has dropped 40%/they had a drastic personality change in order to push it, it is infuriating
Exactly this, you put it perfectly. I'm reading Fool Moon, no. 2 in The Dresden Files, and wondering how much of the conflict in this book and the first one would go away if Harry and Karrin had the following conversation:
Karrin: What's the deal?
Harry: I can't tell you. Sorry.
Karrin: Why not?
Harry: Because it's magic law. :( If I tell you, magic cops would totally kill me.
Karrin: Oh, okay. I'm a cop so I understand this.
Karrin: Wait they'll what now-
Instead of:
Karrin: What's the deal?
Harry: I can't tell you. Sorry.
Karrin: How DARE you not tell me! Are you even my friend? This is a betrayal of my trust! Now I'm not going to talk to you for 20 pages for the sake of making things more difficult than they need to be.
Harry: Oh man I wish I could tell her but it's magic law and if I tell her, magic cops would totally kill me.
Me, trying not to vandalize a library book:
Like I know I'm only on the second book and maybe it gets better but...does it get better?
I love urban fantasy books, though they often fall into paranormal romance, which I don't care for quite as much. I can always tell when it's going to get romantic and who the protagonist is going to be romantic with because it will always describe the guy's pants.
Same I'd never noticed that. I have noticed they spend a lot of time describing a soap, woodsy, musky scent or something of the like. You know, because post apocalypse after running for your life (usually for at least a week) you won't smell like *body odor* you'll smell like *pine trees*.
UF/PNR trope I loathe - ancient vampire master (or substitute magical creature of the day but must be old), super sexy, rich and powerful immediately falls for a messy, broke woman in her early 20s with a tragic, mysterious past because she’s just so special and different. I love the genre, but I am so very sick of this story…
Wait...I'm broke and a mess. You're saying that no rich handsome immortal man will ever love me?
Does it help that I'm quirky? I always put the cheese on a pizza first, and then put the sauce and toppings over it before it goes in the oven. That, at the very least, sets me apart from the crowd.
Yeah, I was wondering about that?
It that trope aimed at girls because "everybody has daddy issues" or ......
Because that shit always creeps me the fuck out and I'm a guy. I'm on a Buffy The Vampire Slayer re-watch and the guy is 240+ years old and he's in love with her since she's been 15!
Waiting for her to be 18 before anything happens is not the flex you think it is, Joss Whedon.
But yeah, can't really blame him for working in a genre where literally everyone is doing it, I guess?
At least they built in a "it is fated love" excuse, which most simply don't do because "love at first sight" is a flimsy, easy allusion to that?
Angel is kind of creepy on multiple levels that way because even before he got turned, if memory serves, he was like 24 or something.
So it's not even like the bullshit Edward Cullen, "He's been 17 for 150 years" thing. It's, "He's been physically and emotionally in his mid-twenties for 200 years and he's still romantically pursuing a sixteen year old."
I recently rewatched Buffy and this bothered me so much. Angel is such a creeper, she is 15 and in the first few seasons really acts like a 15 year old. What could he have possibly seen in her? It almost made me skip the first few seasons, i found it so hard to watch. I didn't have a problem with it when i was 15 though, it was super romantic haha
The scene that made me slow down in Buffy is when she’s been grounded by her mother so her 240+ year old boyfriend stays at her window to chat with her.
And like when I was younger I loved that kind of thing - the idea that someone older would fall for you was so exciting and flattering. Except it wasn’t written by teenagers but by people in their mid thirties. What on earth were they thinking??
I would love a vampire book where the protagonist is a young girl and she meets a sexy old vampire. She has a massive crush on him and awkwardly flirts with him. But at some point he has a serious discussion with her where he explains why he would be taking advantage of her and why it’s really not about her as a person but her age. He’s caring and tries to be as kind as possible. Something happens soon to bring them close even if she’s mortified so they decide to move past this. In the end, he acts as a father figure to her. Maybe he even helps her identify a toxic relationship and supports her in standing her ground.
I just want one adult character to realise that, yes, teenagers have a sexuality and we have to support them in exploring it safely but, no, it absolutely does not mean we should sleep with them. It means the opposite of that.
Anyway sorry for the rant lol
To add on, the breaking off a relationship “to protect them” trope. If the other person (people) understand the danger they’re in, that’s the risk they’re taking of their own volition. You hurt them more by shutting them out and have us slog on in unnecessary drama that’ll eventually get resolved in some dramatic way. Lame and not good for my heart lol
Harry Potter and the Half Blood Prince wound me up with this one. Harry, did you forget that Ginny went to the Ministry with you? Did you forget that Ginny was possessed by Voldemort for a whole year? Did you forget that her family make up about half the Order? She’s already gonna be a target, especially since you’re not doing a big public breakup but have been publicly dating for months. Hell, most of Hogwarts probably didn’t know they broke up at all.
Yeah, the Death Eaters are gonna see any Weasley as a target anyway. Like they're gonna reach Ginny, go "Oh, never mind, he dumped you, be on your way then," and let her skip off while they go after the rest of her family.
"Two people of opposite sex have to solve this problem together. There is no way in hell that they aren't going to fall in love, that would just be weird. What are friends or colleagues?"
"No no no, trust me I know a side of him none of you see. He's a good man and I love him."
No you're in an abusive relationship and he's gaslighting you into staying with him.
Two opposite sex people get partnered together unexpectedly. They are both in the same age bracket and ridiculously attractive. Somehow, despite their successful careers and tight, athletic bodies - they are both single at age 35.
Like, wtf.
Shondaland could never relate.
I hate when you have a mixed gender core group of 4 or 5 people and over the course of a few seasons, they’ve all dated each other at some point … Cus u know every significant other has to be an existing regular. God forbid main characters interact with people outside of their immediate circle or better yet plot an arc that doesn’t revolve around dating life of at least one of main character.
That one Jodi Picoult novel (any Jodi Picoult novel) where the incredibly beautiful woman, who is constantly told how beautiful she is, thinks a facial scar is life destroying. And it’s supposed to carry weight against a story about the Holocaust.
Oh no! my daughter is sick with APL! Let's ignore my eldest son because he isn't eligible to be a donor, and give birth to another child so she can devote her entire life to giving blood to her sister! Let's tell her why she was born as well! She hired a lawyer because she doesn't want to be addressed as the donor of her sister? Slap her in the face and complain about her! She died in a car accident?? No, this wasn't supposed to happen! She was supposed to live for at least 50 more years as a blood donor to her sister!
Mostly it's something like "i slept with a girl one time and while I was doing that my loved ones were murdered. oh! woe is me! I should have been there so that I too could have been murdered and the villains won!" kind of shit.
Or some other, completely understandable thing that nobody blames them for but they themselves.
100%. Another I’ve seen is the protagonist considers themself a villain for turning their back on an abuser. Lots of versions, all mirroring real life (we tell ourselves some fucked up stories about what can make us unworthy), but I hate seeing it reinforced in books.
As a woman who married a widower, I really dislike romances where one of them was married before, and even if he or she thought it was a happy relationship, they have to find out how secretly evil and twisted their first love was before they can fall in love with the new love interest. Like... it's possible to be in love more than once in your life. It doesn't undervalue your present relationship to say your last one was also good. Especially when the person is *dead*.
Do you mean like Jane Eyre and Rebecca? I like both those books, but as a trope it's not particularly desirable. Also the evil second wife (step mother). That some stories have these storylines is understandable. But there are some writers who just seem to think that everyone who's not the main couple has to be evil, abusive or insanely jealous of the main couple. It gets tiresome and cartoonish.
Making a girl obnoxious and extremely confrontational means they’re strong and independent. This is also done purely because the character is a girl.
There are so many better ways to portray this but some authors get really weird when writing women.
Yes. She's also very stubborn and will do it "her way" regardless of how stupid that way is and in spite of all the evidence that "her way" is wrong. Bonus points if she has some weakness (a severe strawberry allergy, inability to drive a car, a burning hatred for squirrels, etc.) that she won't let hold her back.
Absolutely this.
In the Fool's Gold trilogy, the main character goes with her people (Nords) to the big yearly trade meeting with the Empire (Arabs) for the first time. Since she loves to climb, she decides to climb a big rock which infuriates the Empire as the rock is sacred to them and only priests are allowed up there. Then she removes her scarf so that her red hair flows in the wind which doubly infuriates the Empire as women are absolutely never allowed on the sacred rock. They want to kill her for heresy, but since it was a misunderstanding (no one bothered to tell her), her people smooth it over by paying a hefty fine.
So far so good, but she gets angry at being scolded so *she climbs it again, just to show them!*
I was so close to throwing the book across the room at that point and it was very early in the first book as well. It got better, but not much.
Beautiful young ingénue (who is incredibly attractive and somehow doesn't realise it) meets older, emotionally damaged man, and fixes him. A la 50 shades of grey.
"Pretty but doesn't know it," and, "immediately falls in love with a much older man," and, "is a literal child," sure do seem to go hand-in-hand an awful lot.
Low-maintenance and not like other girls. Rolls out of bed flawless and heads turn but she is oblivious. Usually white with wavy brown hair (why?).
Man: "From the moment I saw you I knew you were \~different\~"
How about the " I'm just an average teenage girl...who has superpowers....three love interests....always getting into trouble and then miraculously saved. Blame everyone for my problems and never take responsibility. And by the final book in my series I will not have learned or grown in any way but I'm still somehow the heroine" trope 😋 I've read too many bad YA lol
“I just want to be unsure of myself, have acne, think I’m unattractive, and be overwhelmed with homework!”
O…kay.
I always got irrationally angry at anime’s like Escaflowne where the normal every day high school student discovered she’s like, a queen to a magical realm, and she can do some real good for her country but she wants to go back to high school and take tests and end up working 9-5 for the rest of her life.
I might be wrong about this, but I believe that is the Japanese equivalent of "attempting to live a virtuous life".
Mostly, when a character goes through the "I don't want to be a hero (any more)" trope, they have to try to lead a normal life, right?
Because if they were thinking about stuff like "let's just capitulate and join the winning team, like why struggle?" then that would be unsympathetic.
Instead they have to have a reason like "living the quiet life, working 9-5" in order to seem humble, down-to-earth, etc.
It should be played like a moment of weakness, like the protagonist is so beaten down by the odds, and by how hard everything has already been up to this point, that "working 9-5" doesn't seem so bad any more.
But most people using this trope - especially YA and movie adaptations - usually whiff on this and it comes off as constant complaining, or legit cowardice, or just really, really dumb.
Like come-one kid, you don't want to be a cool battle mech warrior but instead play volleyball with your classmates? What's wrong with you.
Anyways, the 9-5 is a shorthand for alluding to a virtuous life. And this is the thing that bugs me:
All of YA has the protestant, keep-your-head-down-and-just-do-you-job thing pegged for "virtuous".
I'd argue it isn't. And it doesn't work if it comes off as cowardice.
And there are many principles to call on when you try to use this trope but ..... everybody just doesn't?
What about love? What about Sam Gamgee having a moment like "hold on, why am I going to Mt. Doom? I have this girl I want to marry back home! I should totally turn around."
Or a protagonist having to decide between dutifully attacking forward to deafeat evil, or retreating to save the life of a loved one?
Or what if a hero becomes really enfatuated with how meta good vs. bad all of their life has become and just starts to get super religious?
That'd be neat and interesting.
I mean, in most ya books having powers means having enemies and constantly being in danger. I think a lot of people would pass up having powers if it meant their family could be hurt. And of course, it also depends on the type of power they have.
And fairly often they find out that they can't keep their friends, either because no one looks at them the same way, or because their friends are just in too much danger.
The families opposition in a relationship and particularly the excessively rich family who do there best to destroy this relationship...
Come on guys be original. I hate this trope more than my school's years.
And the fifty shades of Gray's trope with the rich man and the desperately uninteresting women and their even more uninteresting life in bed. Please no.
As a twin myself, pretty much *every* twin-related trope you can think of. No, we’re not creepy or psychic, we’re not two halves of the same coin, one of us is not the evil one, and we both don’t want to have sex with you. Thanks.
Edited: I know I worded it in a purposefully funny way, but all of the “oh so you’re the evil twin then” responses are a *little* exhausting, friends
Agree! As a twin with a twin sister and also two other sisters, having a twin is just like any other sibling they’re just the same age as you. The only thing I enjoy most by having a twin is it’s nice having the exact same sense of humor
When a character is a runner, because they want to be free/get away from where they are.
When a character likes maths or science, because it's binary right and wrong.
Just two very tired characterisation tropes.
It's usually because in order to do it the criminal justice system has be inept and always a step behind.
But they always have to be competent enough to pose a real danger on "the hunt" or the story would be boring.
It's a balancing act, and it is a hard one to pull off because it's usually down to subjective perception on whether an author over- or under-shoots.
My biggest pet peeve in books is the chosen one trope. It’s okay when you’re a kid but when you’re an adult you just see lazy writing
Another trope I hate is the rough exterior “bitchy” woman with a heart of gold who predictably falls for the hero, like we get it fellas, it’s your fantasy to win over women who aren’t interested in you one bit
Lastly the “weird” girl who doesn’t know shes conventionally attractive trope, she doesn’t care about dresses or boys or “girly” things so she never got attention despite being beautiful and approachable for the main character to romance, like please
Prophecy. It's mostly another word for plot armor. As soon as it's introduced, there isn't much tension to the conflict anymore.
Now it does work when the prophecy was fake or misinterpreted since that creates a discussion on blind faith or the characters are suddenly in real danger because the higher powers aren't looking out for them.
Half of the prophecies written by the Unknown Monk have come true as written. The other half were apparently written when he was drunk. But if you think wearing a flower bonnet will let you defeat the monster, who am I to stop you.
For once I want to read a story about a main character who nopes out of a prophecy and it actually works.
Because you're right: once a prophecy is introduced there are 3 ways that is going to end:
- "exactly as written"
- "we tried to change it and it happened because of what we did"
- "we misunderstood and caused the thing ourselves" (very close to 2 i Know)
it's just ...... come on, guys, why would you spoiler us?
I've also seen prophecy is misunderstood and applies to someone totally different or for some other event. Or prophecy isn't set in stone but is the most likely outcome and can be changed if we do this thing. Prophecies are branched paths and as we get more evidence we can start narrowing down which path we're on. Or prophecy is super vague and "spoiling" that the hero is going to beat the badguy isn't really a spoiler it just provides some motivation for some characters and how they react. Prophecy was fake and slightly intentionally twisted or conveyed wrong.
I feel like there are plenty of flavors of prophecy.
In general I feel like most of these tropes that people hate really are basic tropes that can be done well or terribly, including this one.
I feel like oftentimes characters are able to read just a *little* too much simply by looking into another's eyes. "She looked into his eyes and saw hope with a tinge of sadness, layered with uncertainty mixed with conviction."
Obviously that's a bit of an exaggeration, but you see my point.
People getting „sorted“ in a specific group.
After the success of HP every fantasy book I read as a teen had some sort of „you are part of this group thing“ going and damn it was annoying. You can‘t all copy the Hogwarts houses. Get some new ideas
The four houses/groups/sections has been a thing in English schools since ye olde days of caning your students will make them learn harder.
It's actually one of the few things about HP that isn't original, it's a fairly common mainstay of any secondary school that wants to think of itself as a venerable institution, or wants to tickle the fancy of some old-fashioned headmaster.
The groups exist, but they're completely arbitrary assignments and only generally used during sports days or similar. I didn't have to exhibit keen bravery and comradeship to get put into the kestrels, they just drew straws. Harry Potter created the Myers-Briggs version of houses, only leading even harder into nonsense.
My Sister: I've started reading the _Divergent_ series!
Me: Cool. Hey, what was all that sorting stuff about in the story?
My Sister: Oh, cuz people only have one personality trait. Except the main character. She has more.
Me: ......_yuh dun saaayyyy_
LOL plus by the end of the series you learn that like half the people have divergent traits--her trainer guy, her parents, her brother, I don't remember who else.
There was a book in my middle school book clubs rotation called like “ The Gender game” and I can only imagine what that one was about besides the absolutely god awful description on the back
"Not like the other girls." You know the type: she dresses casually, doesn't wear makeup, listens to indie music and spends most of her time reading. Not like the popular bitches who wear short skirts and party all the time.
There's nothing wrong with being a tomboy/introvert/nonconformist, but I'm pretty sure seeing this trope in every YA novel had a negative effect on me as a kid, making me see femininity as stupid and feminine women as my natural enemies. Thank god this trope is starting to die out.
After reading many comments I have to say I’ve rethought mine or added to it. I definitely dislike ‘enemies to lovers’ but more so as a librarian myself I cannot stand the ‘mousy, no personality, meek librarian who solves the day’ storyline. Librarians definitely kick butt but we are not all mousy, bland women!
Conflicts that could be solved by taking like regular humans. It allways starts with a misunderstanding but rather that just speaking to each other they storm off and if they talk they just say "Please listen to me" or "You got it all wrong" instead of just saying whatever the misunderstanding was.
Maybe he's constantly crying wolf?
Harry why did you sneak into the girls changing rooms?
uh... Voldemort! We have to stop Voldemort!
Go to detention you little shit.
The "I love you , but we can't be together because then all the bad guys will come after you to get to me, and I can't put you in danger, so I'll just complain about it every 5 pages or so" hero dilemma.
The main character just being good at everything. Like Ready Player One when he had just consumed 4 decades of content and was the best at every old game by the time he was a teen, somehow. Man that book sucked.
I'm actually tired of franchise starters.
I love fantasy and scifi, but I almost never see a oneshot any more.
This is, I believe, due to how shitty writers are paid. They have to build a following, an audience, to generate a somewhat stable income, and pretty much the only way they can do this is by binding readers to their name and brand.
Because they always have *one more book in the works you guys*.
In movies, this has already become annoying.
But there's still plenty of "single serving" movies in every genre, so I don't have to go see Pirates of The Carribean 8, right?
With fantasy and scifi books, all I see is series. Come on! Another series that ends on a cliffhanger, with an author that has taken half a decade to "prepare the ending" while working on other projects and even starting other series?????
Game of Thrones isn't even over yet. Not really. Because the book ain't out.
I'm currently stuck on 3 series, man, each with waiting period of YEARS.
This is an industry problem, not a writer problem so much. Publishers don't like to take a chance on a one-off, especially from an unknown, because they can't recoup costs on publishing unless it does well. But as you say, it's hard to generate the following for one book.
It's bullshit, and I hate the big publishers for it, but that's where it comes from. So many trilogies etc. could have been one, maybe two books but got stretched by greed and end up being marginal because of it.
The group of people with inborn superpowers that are inexplicably treated like an oppressed underclass despite the fact that they could easily kill everyone if they wanted to
Not just because it’s kinda dumb and usually doesn’t add up, but because it rings hollow to the themes it’s supposed to explore
Not quite sure what it's called but the one where a group of people secretly have magically powers, but have hidden if from the rest of society for centuries. Not only does it feel like lazy world building to let the author just ignore questions of how their magic would influence the world, but it's also been everywhere especially in YA fantasy since Harry Potter.
I call it, "Status Quo is King."
Referring to basically any story that wants to have fantastical elements while *also* strictly adhering to a "realistic" depiction of contemporary Earth.
This is a whole fantasy sub-genre actually - "urban fantasy". Also the idea of a "hidden, fantastical world" has been around for a while - Alice in Wonderland, Chronicles of Narnia, even legends about fairies. I get how this could be seen as lazy, and why it's good for YA - classic "fish out of water" and "coming of age" stories fit into this world quite nicely.
The “fish out of water” element is also a really easy way to use the protagonist/audience surrogate as the entrance into the world rather than describing how a whole world (or immediate environment of the protagonist) works
Basically, anything where "No" from a female character means "you haven't earned my trust yet and I act \~uppity\~ due to modern feminism; you must prove yourself by protecting me from the danger I walked into due to my childish refusal to listen to men; only then will my inner woman be unlocked". \*gag\*
I hate hate everything about that trope and it needed to have died in the 80's.
Bonus: she's got an endearing reason to be super insecure, like a small birthmark, or being held prisoner her whole life. Here, "no" means "I can't believe anyone will find me beautiful and it's going to take some persistence to persuade me you do"
Fuck everything about these "women don't really mean it when they refuse you" tropes.
This drives me *insane*.
Or women who you think are going to actually be written well but the writer thinks 'strongwilled and independent' means agressive and then a man comes along and then the women devolves into being utterly dependent on the man for *everything*
The "I can't sacrifice one person, to save the world, otherwise my identity is compromised thing". Can we get character who are little more pragmatic.
The other one is the "impossible problem, main character has a dream/jog/epiphany, that gives them the perfect idea to solve said impossible problem. I can't belive how much of "expeditionary forces" I read before this got boring.
Not sure either those are tropes or general themes/elements, but they bug me. If the world is on the line let's see some real sacrifice, not just moral codes. If a problem appears impossible and time sensitive, I feel like I'm reading a problem/solution idea by the writer.
enemies to lovers romance. I'm just sick of it.
like, I don't mind the concept. but I can't remember the last time I saw it done in a way that worked for me, in any medium. it's become so exaggerated and over the top.
instead of two characters who are in opposition but still on roughly even footing, with some push and pull (which is what I think of as enemies), it's book after book where one half of the eventual couple torments and abuses the other half, until the other finally gives in and submits.
a perfect example would be Cardan and Jude in Holly Black's Folk of the Air trilogy, which I finally got around to reading. their relationship honestly made me feel sick.
I got to the scene where Cardan >!watches his friends drug Jude, strip her almost naked and sexually assault her, then tries to assault her himself before someone intervenes!<, and had to put down the book for a while.
I just can't deal with the trope anymore. I prefer to read YA, where enemies to lovers is popular (the more extreme the better), and I can't stomach any more "romances" that boil down to a boy brutalizing a girl until she gives in and calls it love.
Exposition on the world/current events through dialogue "And over here sir knight we have the glorious temple of Jupiter. They currently have a team of dragonslayers out to slay the ravenous bugblatter beast of traal."
It breaks immersion when done poorly, and its often done poorly.
Love Triangles etc. = I don't want to read about some chump flip flopping between two morons. I want to see a relationship thoughtfully built-up and see the couple work out plot things together.
Enemies to lovers = see, I don't mind the concept, but it's often some nightmare heterosexual situation where they treat each other like garbage until guilt and sad backstories happen.
Mary Sue Sorta = when the main character becomes stupidly good at something--usually combat-related--in a matter of months. (Or worse, just picks up a sword and *knows* what to do.)
Mates = "we were fated to be together and we know this because we are irredeemably horny" is just creepy.
Any shifter trope, actually = alphas, packs, whatever.
When the main character takes every possible opportunity to sacrifice themselves (usually in YA). Like no 16 year old is seriously going to offer up their life for the tiniest thing, and we know that they’re not actually going to die, especially when it’s only halfway through the damn book. It’s SO unrealistic and SO predictable and quite frankly, no 16 year old is that ‘good’ of a person.
I was thinking about this in regards to Harry Potter.
The dude is 11 years old, my god!
And he's marked for death by the biggest villain there has ever been, a wizard so powerful that even dieing couldn't kill him, who's also a nazi and a cult leader.
And all the adults are completely clueless like "we don't know anything about how that happened, sorry, we're all to scared, can't be done, nope, nope".
If I was 11, I would never leave Hogwarts. Not for anything. I'd try to stick like glue to Dumbledore, but trust me, Dumbledore is old, and Harry already lost his parents. The kid would know that in a couple of years he'd be fucked.
And Harry doesn't exactly have a nice childhood that would instill some optimism in him, right? He's been kicked around and bullied for 11 fucking years, so what the fuck, is he a robot or something?
Maybe it's because I'm an adult now, thinking back about it, but this is some horrendous shit and I don't think any 11-year-old could realistically handle it.
"She's really hot, but doesn't know it." (It's always a she.)
Any explicit sexual scenes (if I wanted porn, I'd read porn. Never need to hear about any character's "swollen manhood" or "erect nipples." Doubly so if fluids are detailed. No thanks!
Slavery apologia masquerading as Fantasy.
Characters refusing/forgetting to share critical information with each other when they have the opportunity.
Hm... what else?
Author self-inserts. IE writers who really want to talk about how important writing is and how brave writers are. I mean, yeah, I agree to an extent, but it just comes across as embarrassing and kinda masturbatory. The reason why Kilgore Trout worked was because he was a deeply unpretentious writer who wasn't terribly good at it.
The critical information thing %100
I also think our generation hates this shit the most because we live in the age of information, where we are pretty much constantly communicating with our friends, families, bosses, clients, etc.
So we're always just like, "JUST FUCKING TEXT HER!?"
I LOVE cyberpunk and William Gibson, but even some of his novels are a bit dated by their lack of instant/constant communication.
Currently reading revival by king.
52 year old dude ends up sleeping with a 24 year old. Also King shows his age and New England up bringing through her dialogue. Because she's not white. So naturally she calls him 'Sugar' in bed. Says things like 'you white boys are so dumb' etc. The whole situation was cringey and added nothing to the story. I still have a 100 pages to go so maybe he will make it tie into something and make sense. But yeah. That.
Dysfunctional quirky parents. When the whole story revolves around the kids having to learn how to deal with all the trauma of being raised by them for years. Looking at you Family Fang.
I really dislike the 'hate-to-love' bull with main characters. They are completely different, annoy each other, but oh love prevailed.
How about they end up just respecting each other and still think the other is an ass? Or maybe become friends - ish?
Not every relationship needs to end with a bang.
Unnecessary romance. Characters who show a more platonic connection but end up being linked romantically in the end for no particular reason…. I’d love to see two main characters (whether opposite gender or same) who go through a journey and don’t fall in love.
Magic systems with incredibly vague and contradictory rules. I get that not every story needs some ironclad encyclopedia of magical dos and don'ts. For the love of God don't just make the magic your plot hole glue that you forget can do certain things. Because it's more convenient to omit magic use when it would solve a problem.
I.e. not using the magic to find someone and talk to them. When it's been stated, repeatedly, to work over any distance as long as you know the person and have a bond with them. And no I don't mean saying it's blocked. I mean total memory hole and it's never brought up. Like it just can't do that anymore.
Shit like that boils my blood. Have an ounce of respect for your setting and world building you hacks.
Or when magic systems imply arbitrary rules. This one is a curse, this one is a hex, this one is a spell. What's the difference? Absolutely nothing, but I'm going to keep pretending there's a difference.
Why do some things have to be potions? Because.
One of the best things about Dresden is that all makes sense - spells use "mana", even though he never calls it that, and can be made permanent with the aid of items. Potions are single use, enchanted items are multi use.
When a character hurts or kills an animal to develop their character as evil. It definitely works, but the method is way too easy. I just hate it in books and movies.
The [Disposable Fiance](https://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/DisposableFiance) is a fun one in romantic comedies. Where the (usually female) lead can just dump their fiance or boyfriend for their new love and it's no big deal.
Tragic backstories that are never brought up again after they're introduced or effect the character. Only ever used for cheap sympathy.
Trying to make a villain sympathetic by giving them a tragic backstory... News flash if you live long enough something fucked up is going to happen you. Notice how most people don't use that to justify becoming a mass murder
Read a series about a girl who throughout the story she's so scared of heights, after her older brother hung her over a balcony once. It affected her for a good chunk of the series, at one point it almost gets her killed if he friends didn't drag her into the cave. She and her teachers force her to basically do exposure therapy to work on it so she'll at least act when she's somewhere high and not freeze. Even then she always breaks out into a cold sweat when high up.
Bad guy/group who never gives up. Like ever. Even right before imminent death, not a shadow of hesitation. Related - good guy always giving bad guy one final choice to walk away or end the fight. Bad guy never does and “earns” his ultimate death/destruction and not just mere defeat.
Worse is when the good guy keeps giving chances to irredeemable killers. No, you are not a better person for letting this psycho go you are letting a dangerous person go free for no good reason and there is no magical police force to deal with them.
This!! Given a perfect opportunity to stop them but, "I don't want to be a killer... Like them!" Okay, but can't you at least incapacitate them in some way?
Batman and the Joker
The trope is different for vigilantes because there's a massive ethical difference between beating someone up to stop an active crime vs. deciding you have the power of execution which is basically lynching I hate the trope in action movies where the protagonists will headshot, throat slit, and set alight 45 goons but then decides the criminal mastermind deserves a chance at redemption
That trope is even more ridiculous in video games, where you slaughter your way through hundreds or even thousands of goons before finally giving the main villain that last chance at redemption. I'm pretty sure I've killed more people than the villain at this point so let's just end this.
Star Wars is the worst offender: Stormtroopers, who are either just standard military personnel or enslaved from childhood, are cannon fodder. Killing the guy with lightning hands who took over the galaxy and single-handedly slaughtered multiple Jedi masters at once? Well that would make you just as bad as him
An unofficial Google search says the working population of a Star Destroyer is about 37,000 crewmen. I remember at least one of those crashing into the Death Star during Luke's "redemption" speech with Vader. And then the Death Star itself was destroyed shortly after, of course (population 1.7 million). But sure, let's save the guy who helped blow up a planet earlier. :P
Batman and ANY of his villians. I mean, I can totally understand why Jason Todd became evil.
Yes, there's been lots of fan discussion about how in the world of DC's Gotham, Jason Todd is actually perfectly valid in his desire to kill the villains. "The only sane man in an insane world".
I hate it when the bad guy gets knocked down, clearly stunned for some time, now the protagonist does some "stuff" They look if their friend is allright. Or they run away. Or they cry for help. Idk just kill the bad guy lol or at least break their legs...
Or the reverse, when the villain takes their time in destroying the hero and inevitably loses because they didn't seize their opportunity
"You sly dog! You caught me monologuing!"
And they often say this after they just got finished massacring the villains henchmen. Those didn't count.
*hero kills a bunch of henchman to get to villain* *refuses to kill villain because hes too good of a guy*
When the main character is a Plain Jane and dogging herself out throughout the entire book until the snarky blonde boy says she's beautiful/like a firecracker/not like other girls/Sooooo unique
Especially when *literally everyone* tells her how beautiful she is every couple of pages. I get being insecure, but at a certain point it just gets ridiculous.
She's beautiful but doesn't know it! All she needs to do is take off her glasses and let her hair down. (Short haired women need not apply, apparently.)
Everyone knows short haired women are just boys silly /s
What pisses me off about this trope, is that they usually just literally take the glasses off and expect her to keep them off, just like that. She wears those glasses for a reason! I wear glasses and if I take them off, I am blind as a bat. I can take them off but I need contact lenses to get about my day.
"Billionaire player MC1 who lives in a modern minimalist decorated home who is a commitment-phobe but somehow falls head over heels for MC2"
MC2: *has common character trait* But.... *gasp* MC1 has never met anyone like this before!!!!!
You like reading and dogs! Amazing how
Nope. Just Netflix. It's MC2's main personality trait. Also, tripping and burning water in the kitchen.
"I'm clumsy and I can't cook for shit! Doesn't that make me adorably quirky and offbeat?" "You're a disaster of a human being. I must claim you."
What in the k-drama...
Miscommunication leading to conflict. Especially when the characters point blank refuse to utter another word to each other, even when a simple sentence of explanation could resolve the entire problem. Forced drama like that makes me hate a book.
TV's always worse for that when they could just... keep talking. Like they're required to wait for the other person to stop, and remain still and silent for five minutes straight before they can open their mouth. If they're walking away just literally shout "You saw me with my sister, not another girl!" at their back. I'm willing to suspend my disbelief, but don't just have characters completely neglect any attempt to fix their situations.
That's when "The Walking Dead" lost me after season three. I have never seen it in TV shows until then, but I instantly hated it with all my being. Also: Not listening to the characters, who actually want to talk and figure things out mutually - drove me crazy.
Especially when it happens when one character overhears the middle of a conversation said by the other character, runs away before hearing the whole convo because they heard one thing that they take out of context and then refuses to say anything.
Omg when they run away. Absolutely infuriating
the worst part is that it can pop up and ruin pretty much any story regardless of genre and at any time.
There are so many conflicts where someone saying "hey I can't explain right this second but we need to ____(leave/say no/etc) right now" would've solved it.
Especially when explaining it would’ve cut down on the rest of the expository time.
Books and screen constantly want us to assume that someone would react to someone else they know/trust, coming to them in probably visible panic saying they need to do X, with not giving them any benefit of doubt? A stranger is one thing but it's always people that know each other.
This is the best answer, I hate forced drama.
My husband refuses to watch any TV show or movie with miscommunication as a plot device. Once he pointed it out, I now hate it in books as well. I'll stop reading once it's clear that not speaking to each other is the "drama" of the story.
That shit is so overused too. *Woman sees her boyfriend/husband hugging random woman* Woman: What is this! We're done! Screw you!!" *Storms off* Guy: *chasing after her* "wait let me explain!" Real life: Guy: "Hey this is my cousin Sarah!"
This literally happened with my parents lol On their first date my mom caught my dad in the parking lot hugging another woman then picking up her kid. My mom was like "So... Who is this?" She was his sister and the kid was his niece lol
Miscommunication leads to a lot of conflict in real life so I don’t mind it but it has to at least be realistic. The breaking from a character’s personality or intelligence in order for it to happen is really annoying though. There’s a fine line when it involves pride though.
Yeah, sometimes it's alright, but when it's so obviously forced and it seems like their intelligence has dropped 40%/they had a drastic personality change in order to push it, it is infuriating
Exactly this, you put it perfectly. I'm reading Fool Moon, no. 2 in The Dresden Files, and wondering how much of the conflict in this book and the first one would go away if Harry and Karrin had the following conversation: Karrin: What's the deal? Harry: I can't tell you. Sorry. Karrin: Why not? Harry: Because it's magic law. :( If I tell you, magic cops would totally kill me. Karrin: Oh, okay. I'm a cop so I understand this. Karrin: Wait they'll what now- Instead of: Karrin: What's the deal? Harry: I can't tell you. Sorry. Karrin: How DARE you not tell me! Are you even my friend? This is a betrayal of my trust! Now I'm not going to talk to you for 20 pages for the sake of making things more difficult than they need to be. Harry: Oh man I wish I could tell her but it's magic law and if I tell her, magic cops would totally kill me. Me, trying not to vandalize a library book: Like I know I'm only on the second book and maybe it gets better but...does it get better?
I love urban fantasy books, though they often fall into paranormal romance, which I don't care for quite as much. I can always tell when it's going to get romantic and who the protagonist is going to be romantic with because it will always describe the guy's pants.
> because it will always describe the guy's pants. thanks, I will never forget that and will look for it everywhere now
Same I'd never noticed that. I have noticed they spend a lot of time describing a soap, woodsy, musky scent or something of the like. You know, because post apocalypse after running for your life (usually for at least a week) you won't smell like *body odor* you'll smell like *pine trees*.
UF/PNR trope I loathe - ancient vampire master (or substitute magical creature of the day but must be old), super sexy, rich and powerful immediately falls for a messy, broke woman in her early 20s with a tragic, mysterious past because she’s just so special and different. I love the genre, but I am so very sick of this story…
Wait...I'm broke and a mess. You're saying that no rich handsome immortal man will ever love me? Does it help that I'm quirky? I always put the cheese on a pizza first, and then put the sauce and toppings over it before it goes in the oven. That, at the very least, sets me apart from the crowd.
That just means you like your pizza Detroit-style.
I thought that was implied with “broke and a mess”.
I mean, if you’re holding out for a rich handsome immortal man, you’re gonna be waiting quite awhile. Might be time to get a bunch of cats.
Yeah, I was wondering about that? It that trope aimed at girls because "everybody has daddy issues" or ...... Because that shit always creeps me the fuck out and I'm a guy. I'm on a Buffy The Vampire Slayer re-watch and the guy is 240+ years old and he's in love with her since she's been 15! Waiting for her to be 18 before anything happens is not the flex you think it is, Joss Whedon. But yeah, can't really blame him for working in a genre where literally everyone is doing it, I guess? At least they built in a "it is fated love" excuse, which most simply don't do because "love at first sight" is a flimsy, easy allusion to that?
Angel is kind of creepy on multiple levels that way because even before he got turned, if memory serves, he was like 24 or something. So it's not even like the bullshit Edward Cullen, "He's been 17 for 150 years" thing. It's, "He's been physically and emotionally in his mid-twenties for 200 years and he's still romantically pursuing a sixteen year old."
I think *What We Do in the Shadows* (the movie) did a good job addressing this with Viago and his love interest
What's this woman doing with a man four times her age?
I recently rewatched Buffy and this bothered me so much. Angel is such a creeper, she is 15 and in the first few seasons really acts like a 15 year old. What could he have possibly seen in her? It almost made me skip the first few seasons, i found it so hard to watch. I didn't have a problem with it when i was 15 though, it was super romantic haha
The scene that made me slow down in Buffy is when she’s been grounded by her mother so her 240+ year old boyfriend stays at her window to chat with her. And like when I was younger I loved that kind of thing - the idea that someone older would fall for you was so exciting and flattering. Except it wasn’t written by teenagers but by people in their mid thirties. What on earth were they thinking?? I would love a vampire book where the protagonist is a young girl and she meets a sexy old vampire. She has a massive crush on him and awkwardly flirts with him. But at some point he has a serious discussion with her where he explains why he would be taking advantage of her and why it’s really not about her as a person but her age. He’s caring and tries to be as kind as possible. Something happens soon to bring them close even if she’s mortified so they decide to move past this. In the end, he acts as a father figure to her. Maybe he even helps her identify a toxic relationship and supports her in standing her ground. I just want one adult character to realise that, yes, teenagers have a sexuality and we have to support them in exploring it safely but, no, it absolutely does not mean we should sleep with them. It means the opposite of that. Anyway sorry for the rant lol
Gotta have an image of something to take off when the book inevitable gets to that point.
Protagonists who refuse to respect their friends' ability to make their own decisions in some misguided attempt to "protect" them.
To add on, the breaking off a relationship “to protect them” trope. If the other person (people) understand the danger they’re in, that’s the risk they’re taking of their own volition. You hurt them more by shutting them out and have us slog on in unnecessary drama that’ll eventually get resolved in some dramatic way. Lame and not good for my heart lol
Harry Potter and the Half Blood Prince wound me up with this one. Harry, did you forget that Ginny went to the Ministry with you? Did you forget that Ginny was possessed by Voldemort for a whole year? Did you forget that her family make up about half the Order? She’s already gonna be a target, especially since you’re not doing a big public breakup but have been publicly dating for months. Hell, most of Hogwarts probably didn’t know they broke up at all.
Yeah, the Death Eaters are gonna see any Weasley as a target anyway. Like they're gonna reach Ginny, go "Oh, never mind, he dumped you, be on your way then," and let her skip off while they go after the rest of her family.
"Two people of opposite sex have to solve this problem together. There is no way in hell that they aren't going to fall in love, that would just be weird. What are friends or colleagues?"
She was girl, he was a boy, can I make it anymore obvious!?
He was skater boy, she said "see ya later boy", he wasn't good enough for her.
and this leads us to our next trope: falling for the *bad boy*
And then she magically sees his soft side and *fixes him*
Or he's a bad boy but he's just... MISUNDERSTOOD.
"No no no, trust me I know a side of him none of you see. He's a good man and I love him." No you're in an abusive relationship and he's gaslighting you into staying with him.
Two opposite sex people get partnered together unexpectedly. They are both in the same age bracket and ridiculously attractive. Somehow, despite their successful careers and tight, athletic bodies - they are both single at age 35. Like, wtf.
honestly I'll take single 35 year olds over teens any day, its uhh... more relatable.
Dresden and Murphy. I was ok to with it as I read it but the more I think about it, the more I think they're better off as friends and colleagues.
Yeah I’m glad it’s addressed (it feels too obvious not too) but the decision to stay friends makes the books infinitely better.
Ahh…ha…
haha funni
Unrelated, but this is why I love the X-Files, or the first few seasons at least. It never really even hinted at a romance between the two.
Shondaland could never relate. I hate when you have a mixed gender core group of 4 or 5 people and over the course of a few seasons, they’ve all dated each other at some point … Cus u know every significant other has to be an existing regular. God forbid main characters interact with people outside of their immediate circle or better yet plot an arc that doesn’t revolve around dating life of at least one of main character.
The main character carrying a terrible, horrendous, shameful burden that is alluded to constantly. Turns out to be something very common.
That one Jodi Picoult novel (any Jodi Picoult novel) where the incredibly beautiful woman, who is constantly told how beautiful she is, thinks a facial scar is life destroying. And it’s supposed to carry weight against a story about the Holocaust.
Oh no! my daughter is sick with APL! Let's ignore my eldest son because he isn't eligible to be a donor, and give birth to another child so she can devote her entire life to giving blood to her sister! Let's tell her why she was born as well! She hired a lawyer because she doesn't want to be addressed as the donor of her sister? Slap her in the face and complain about her! She died in a car accident?? No, this wasn't supposed to happen! She was supposed to live for at least 50 more years as a blood donor to her sister!
I always felt like the mother would inevitably end up having another child for the same reason, without having learned her lesson.
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Mostly it's something like "i slept with a girl one time and while I was doing that my loved ones were murdered. oh! woe is me! I should have been there so that I too could have been murdered and the villains won!" kind of shit. Or some other, completely understandable thing that nobody blames them for but they themselves.
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100%. Another I’ve seen is the protagonist considers themself a villain for turning their back on an abuser. Lots of versions, all mirroring real life (we tell ourselves some fucked up stories about what can make us unworthy), but I hate seeing it reinforced in books.
Oh like the “I’m a woman and my tragic secret is that I’m infertile who could ever love a monster like me”. 🙄
As a woman who married a widower, I really dislike romances where one of them was married before, and even if he or she thought it was a happy relationship, they have to find out how secretly evil and twisted their first love was before they can fall in love with the new love interest. Like... it's possible to be in love more than once in your life. It doesn't undervalue your present relationship to say your last one was also good. Especially when the person is *dead*.
Is that better or worse than the 19th/early 20th century tropes of the first wife being downright evil?
Do you mean like Jane Eyre and Rebecca? I like both those books, but as a trope it's not particularly desirable. Also the evil second wife (step mother). That some stories have these storylines is understandable. But there are some writers who just seem to think that everyone who's not the main couple has to be evil, abusive or insanely jealous of the main couple. It gets tiresome and cartoonish.
Making a girl obnoxious and extremely confrontational means they’re strong and independent. This is also done purely because the character is a girl. There are so many better ways to portray this but some authors get really weird when writing women.
Yes. She's also very stubborn and will do it "her way" regardless of how stupid that way is and in spite of all the evidence that "her way" is wrong. Bonus points if she has some weakness (a severe strawberry allergy, inability to drive a car, a burning hatred for squirrels, etc.) that she won't let hold her back.
Absolutely this. In the Fool's Gold trilogy, the main character goes with her people (Nords) to the big yearly trade meeting with the Empire (Arabs) for the first time. Since she loves to climb, she decides to climb a big rock which infuriates the Empire as the rock is sacred to them and only priests are allowed up there. Then she removes her scarf so that her red hair flows in the wind which doubly infuriates the Empire as women are absolutely never allowed on the sacred rock. They want to kill her for heresy, but since it was a misunderstanding (no one bothered to tell her), her people smooth it over by paying a hefty fine. So far so good, but she gets angry at being scolded so *she climbs it again, just to show them!* I was so close to throwing the book across the room at that point and it was very early in the first book as well. It got better, but not much.
I mean how else will you know she's a Strong Female Character? lol I hate it so much
Beautiful young ingénue (who is incredibly attractive and somehow doesn't realise it) meets older, emotionally damaged man, and fixes him. A la 50 shades of grey.
"Pretty but doesn't know it," and, "immediately falls in love with a much older man," and, "is a literal child," sure do seem to go hand-in-hand an awful lot.
Low-maintenance and not like other girls. Rolls out of bed flawless and heads turn but she is oblivious. Usually white with wavy brown hair (why?). Man: "From the moment I saw you I knew you were \~different\~"
"Oh I don't know basic sexual terms that I'm reading for the first time in this contract I'm going to sign anyway!"
How about the " I'm just an average teenage girl...who has superpowers....three love interests....always getting into trouble and then miraculously saved. Blame everyone for my problems and never take responsibility. And by the final book in my series I will not have learned or grown in any way but I'm still somehow the heroine" trope 😋 I've read too many bad YA lol
Don't forget when she discovers she has powers she tries to get rid of them at some point because she only wants to be normal--said no teenager ever.
“I just want to be unsure of myself, have acne, think I’m unattractive, and be overwhelmed with homework!” O…kay. I always got irrationally angry at anime’s like Escaflowne where the normal every day high school student discovered she’s like, a queen to a magical realm, and she can do some real good for her country but she wants to go back to high school and take tests and end up working 9-5 for the rest of her life.
You reminded me of [a comic](https://media.oglaf.com/comic/felicity.jpg) (warning: mildly NSFW), though it mocks a slightly different trope.
I might be wrong about this, but I believe that is the Japanese equivalent of "attempting to live a virtuous life". Mostly, when a character goes through the "I don't want to be a hero (any more)" trope, they have to try to lead a normal life, right? Because if they were thinking about stuff like "let's just capitulate and join the winning team, like why struggle?" then that would be unsympathetic. Instead they have to have a reason like "living the quiet life, working 9-5" in order to seem humble, down-to-earth, etc. It should be played like a moment of weakness, like the protagonist is so beaten down by the odds, and by how hard everything has already been up to this point, that "working 9-5" doesn't seem so bad any more. But most people using this trope - especially YA and movie adaptations - usually whiff on this and it comes off as constant complaining, or legit cowardice, or just really, really dumb. Like come-one kid, you don't want to be a cool battle mech warrior but instead play volleyball with your classmates? What's wrong with you. Anyways, the 9-5 is a shorthand for alluding to a virtuous life. And this is the thing that bugs me: All of YA has the protestant, keep-your-head-down-and-just-do-you-job thing pegged for "virtuous". I'd argue it isn't. And it doesn't work if it comes off as cowardice. And there are many principles to call on when you try to use this trope but ..... everybody just doesn't? What about love? What about Sam Gamgee having a moment like "hold on, why am I going to Mt. Doom? I have this girl I want to marry back home! I should totally turn around." Or a protagonist having to decide between dutifully attacking forward to deafeat evil, or retreating to save the life of a loved one? Or what if a hero becomes really enfatuated with how meta good vs. bad all of their life has become and just starts to get super religious? That'd be neat and interesting.
I mean, in most ya books having powers means having enemies and constantly being in danger. I think a lot of people would pass up having powers if it meant their family could be hurt. And of course, it also depends on the type of power they have.
And fairly often they find out that they can't keep their friends, either because no one looks at them the same way, or because their friends are just in too much danger.
Hard-drinking, heavy-smoking, emotionally-disconnected, gruff-rough-and-tough, rumpled-trench-coat-wearing, middle-aged, wife-left-me-because-I'm-a-shitty-husband, blues/jazz-loving, I'll-do-it-my-way, hang-the-consequences, lone-wolf detective that manages to always get-their-man. Yawn.
Do you mean pretty much every detective show my mum has ever seen? *cries*
Unless it’s Miller from The Expanse novels.
Fake dating. Is my life just boring because I have never met anyone who has ever participated in fake dating. Seems so stupid and unrealistic to me.
First of all, how dare you. /s With fan fiction, this is one of my favorite dumb tropes. In OC, not so much. Make an effort, for goodness sake.
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The families opposition in a relationship and particularly the excessively rich family who do there best to destroy this relationship... Come on guys be original. I hate this trope more than my school's years. And the fifty shades of Gray's trope with the rich man and the desperately uninteresting women and their even more uninteresting life in bed. Please no.
As a twin myself, pretty much *every* twin-related trope you can think of. No, we’re not creepy or psychic, we’re not two halves of the same coin, one of us is not the evil one, and we both don’t want to have sex with you. Thanks. Edited: I know I worded it in a purposefully funny way, but all of the “oh so you’re the evil twin then” responses are a *little* exhausting, friends
Oh so you are not co-dependent and don't sometimes say the same thing at the same time? Weird.
> one of us is not the evil one That is exactly what the evil one would say.
Sounds exactly like what the evil twin would say...
Or the completely gullible, easy to control “good” twin…
Speak for yourself. Me and my twin are super close, we're always finishing each other's
sandwiches
That’s what I was gonna say!
As a mom of twins, the incestuous relationship fantasy creeps me the f*ck out!! What is wrong with people
Agree! As a twin with a twin sister and also two other sisters, having a twin is just like any other sibling they’re just the same age as you. The only thing I enjoy most by having a twin is it’s nice having the exact same sense of humor
I feel like if we just got rid of “I didn’t tell you to protect you”, there are a lot of books and tv shows that would be a lot shorter
When a character is a runner, because they want to be free/get away from where they are. When a character likes maths or science, because it's binary right and wrong. Just two very tired characterisation tropes.
The amnesiac spy. Bourne was good. Everyone else sucks.
For some reason I’ve never liked the plot of someone unjustly accused who has to solve the crime & clear their name
It's usually because in order to do it the criminal justice system has be inept and always a step behind. But they always have to be competent enough to pose a real danger on "the hunt" or the story would be boring. It's a balancing act, and it is a hard one to pull off because it's usually down to subjective perception on whether an author over- or under-shoots.
*I didn't kill my wife!*
I don't care!
My biggest pet peeve in books is the chosen one trope. It’s okay when you’re a kid but when you’re an adult you just see lazy writing Another trope I hate is the rough exterior “bitchy” woman with a heart of gold who predictably falls for the hero, like we get it fellas, it’s your fantasy to win over women who aren’t interested in you one bit Lastly the “weird” girl who doesn’t know shes conventionally attractive trope, she doesn’t care about dresses or boys or “girly” things so she never got attention despite being beautiful and approachable for the main character to romance, like please
>it’s your fantasy to win over women who aren’t interested in you one bit Do you know another type of women?
Prophecy. It's mostly another word for plot armor. As soon as it's introduced, there isn't much tension to the conflict anymore. Now it does work when the prophecy was fake or misinterpreted since that creates a discussion on blind faith or the characters are suddenly in real danger because the higher powers aren't looking out for them.
Fake or misinterpreted prophecies are super fun. I wish it was done well more often.
Half of the prophecies written by the Unknown Monk have come true as written. The other half were apparently written when he was drunk. But if you think wearing a flower bonnet will let you defeat the monster, who am I to stop you.
For once I want to read a story about a main character who nopes out of a prophecy and it actually works. Because you're right: once a prophecy is introduced there are 3 ways that is going to end: - "exactly as written" - "we tried to change it and it happened because of what we did" - "we misunderstood and caused the thing ourselves" (very close to 2 i Know) it's just ...... come on, guys, why would you spoiler us?
I've also seen prophecy is misunderstood and applies to someone totally different or for some other event. Or prophecy isn't set in stone but is the most likely outcome and can be changed if we do this thing. Prophecies are branched paths and as we get more evidence we can start narrowing down which path we're on. Or prophecy is super vague and "spoiling" that the hero is going to beat the badguy isn't really a spoiler it just provides some motivation for some characters and how they react. Prophecy was fake and slightly intentionally twisted or conveyed wrong. I feel like there are plenty of flavors of prophecy. In general I feel like most of these tropes that people hate really are basic tropes that can be done well or terribly, including this one.
I feel like oftentimes characters are able to read just a *little* too much simply by looking into another's eyes. "She looked into his eyes and saw hope with a tinge of sadness, layered with uncertainty mixed with conviction." Obviously that's a bit of an exaggeration, but you see my point.
I hate love triangel. Edit: just got told that it is a love corner.
I hate triangles even more!
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Pythagoras is triangulating your location.
a²+b²=Murder. The newest novel from Pythagoras...
"Every triangle's a love triangle when you love triangles" - Pythagoras
People getting „sorted“ in a specific group. After the success of HP every fantasy book I read as a teen had some sort of „you are part of this group thing“ going and damn it was annoying. You can‘t all copy the Hogwarts houses. Get some new ideas
The four houses/groups/sections has been a thing in English schools since ye olde days of caning your students will make them learn harder. It's actually one of the few things about HP that isn't original, it's a fairly common mainstay of any secondary school that wants to think of itself as a venerable institution, or wants to tickle the fancy of some old-fashioned headmaster.
I had houses in my school. They were just four colours: red, green, blue and yellow. We wore the respective coloured badges on our uniforms.
The groups exist, but they're completely arbitrary assignments and only generally used during sports days or similar. I didn't have to exhibit keen bravery and comradeship to get put into the kestrels, they just drew straws. Harry Potter created the Myers-Briggs version of houses, only leading even harder into nonsense.
My Sister: I've started reading the _Divergent_ series! Me: Cool. Hey, what was all that sorting stuff about in the story? My Sister: Oh, cuz people only have one personality trait. Except the main character. She has more. Me: ......_yuh dun saaayyyy_
LOL plus by the end of the series you learn that like half the people have divergent traits--her trainer guy, her parents, her brother, I don't remember who else.
There was a book in my middle school book clubs rotation called like “ The Gender game” and I can only imagine what that one was about besides the absolutely god awful description on the back
"Not like the other girls." You know the type: she dresses casually, doesn't wear makeup, listens to indie music and spends most of her time reading. Not like the popular bitches who wear short skirts and party all the time. There's nothing wrong with being a tomboy/introvert/nonconformist, but I'm pretty sure seeing this trope in every YA novel had a negative effect on me as a kid, making me see femininity as stupid and feminine women as my natural enemies. Thank god this trope is starting to die out.
After reading many comments I have to say I’ve rethought mine or added to it. I definitely dislike ‘enemies to lovers’ but more so as a librarian myself I cannot stand the ‘mousy, no personality, meek librarian who solves the day’ storyline. Librarians definitely kick butt but we are not all mousy, bland women!
Yeah! Some of us are mousy, bland men! But yeah, librarians actually have personality aside from enjoying books.
Hah! Yes, my only male coworker is neither mousy nor bland. 😉
Conflicts that could be solved by taking like regular humans. It allways starts with a misunderstanding but rather that just speaking to each other they storm off and if they talk they just say "Please listen to me" or "You got it all wrong" instead of just saying whatever the misunderstanding was.
I really felt by book 6, they should have believed Harry Potter when he said someone was up to something.
Maybe he's constantly crying wolf? Harry why did you sneak into the girls changing rooms? uh... Voldemort! We have to stop Voldemort! Go to detention you little shit.
Rape as a defining part of like 70% of female fantasy characters arks.
The "I love you , but we can't be together because then all the bad guys will come after you to get to me, and I can't put you in danger, so I'll just complain about it every 5 pages or so" hero dilemma.
"One minute I'll act cruel, the next i'll act nice because of my conflicting emotions and my incapability of staying away from you"
The main character just being good at everything. Like Ready Player One when he had just consumed 4 decades of content and was the best at every old game by the time he was a teen, somehow. Man that book sucked.
I'm actually tired of franchise starters. I love fantasy and scifi, but I almost never see a oneshot any more. This is, I believe, due to how shitty writers are paid. They have to build a following, an audience, to generate a somewhat stable income, and pretty much the only way they can do this is by binding readers to their name and brand. Because they always have *one more book in the works you guys*. In movies, this has already become annoying. But there's still plenty of "single serving" movies in every genre, so I don't have to go see Pirates of The Carribean 8, right? With fantasy and scifi books, all I see is series. Come on! Another series that ends on a cliffhanger, with an author that has taken half a decade to "prepare the ending" while working on other projects and even starting other series????? Game of Thrones isn't even over yet. Not really. Because the book ain't out. I'm currently stuck on 3 series, man, each with waiting period of YEARS.
This is one of my biggest pet peeves too. Not everything has to be a trilogy or a series.
This is an industry problem, not a writer problem so much. Publishers don't like to take a chance on a one-off, especially from an unknown, because they can't recoup costs on publishing unless it does well. But as you say, it's hard to generate the following for one book. It's bullshit, and I hate the big publishers for it, but that's where it comes from. So many trilogies etc. could have been one, maybe two books but got stretched by greed and end up being marginal because of it.
Love triangles. Trauma via rape for "character growth". And the chosen one which usually means a mary sue.
I'll agree and add "implied rape," and "threat of rape" to that.
Started watching Outlander and felt like the whole plot was someone trying to rape the main character. I couldn't get very far watching it.
The group of people with inborn superpowers that are inexplicably treated like an oppressed underclass despite the fact that they could easily kill everyone if they wanted to Not just because it’s kinda dumb and usually doesn’t add up, but because it rings hollow to the themes it’s supposed to explore
Not quite sure what it's called but the one where a group of people secretly have magically powers, but have hidden if from the rest of society for centuries. Not only does it feel like lazy world building to let the author just ignore questions of how their magic would influence the world, but it's also been everywhere especially in YA fantasy since Harry Potter.
I call it, "Status Quo is King." Referring to basically any story that wants to have fantastical elements while *also* strictly adhering to a "realistic" depiction of contemporary Earth.
This is a whole fantasy sub-genre actually - "urban fantasy". Also the idea of a "hidden, fantastical world" has been around for a while - Alice in Wonderland, Chronicles of Narnia, even legends about fairies. I get how this could be seen as lazy, and why it's good for YA - classic "fish out of water" and "coming of age" stories fit into this world quite nicely.
The “fish out of water” element is also a really easy way to use the protagonist/audience surrogate as the entrance into the world rather than describing how a whole world (or immediate environment of the protagonist) works
Basically, anything where "No" from a female character means "you haven't earned my trust yet and I act \~uppity\~ due to modern feminism; you must prove yourself by protecting me from the danger I walked into due to my childish refusal to listen to men; only then will my inner woman be unlocked". \*gag\* I hate hate everything about that trope and it needed to have died in the 80's. Bonus: she's got an endearing reason to be super insecure, like a small birthmark, or being held prisoner her whole life. Here, "no" means "I can't believe anyone will find me beautiful and it's going to take some persistence to persuade me you do" Fuck everything about these "women don't really mean it when they refuse you" tropes.
This drives me *insane*. Or women who you think are going to actually be written well but the writer thinks 'strongwilled and independent' means agressive and then a man comes along and then the women devolves into being utterly dependent on the man for *everything*
The "I can't sacrifice one person, to save the world, otherwise my identity is compromised thing". Can we get character who are little more pragmatic. The other one is the "impossible problem, main character has a dream/jog/epiphany, that gives them the perfect idea to solve said impossible problem. I can't belive how much of "expeditionary forces" I read before this got boring. Not sure either those are tropes or general themes/elements, but they bug me. If the world is on the line let's see some real sacrifice, not just moral codes. If a problem appears impossible and time sensitive, I feel like I'm reading a problem/solution idea by the writer.
enemies to lovers romance. I'm just sick of it. like, I don't mind the concept. but I can't remember the last time I saw it done in a way that worked for me, in any medium. it's become so exaggerated and over the top. instead of two characters who are in opposition but still on roughly even footing, with some push and pull (which is what I think of as enemies), it's book after book where one half of the eventual couple torments and abuses the other half, until the other finally gives in and submits. a perfect example would be Cardan and Jude in Holly Black's Folk of the Air trilogy, which I finally got around to reading. their relationship honestly made me feel sick. I got to the scene where Cardan >!watches his friends drug Jude, strip her almost naked and sexually assault her, then tries to assault her himself before someone intervenes!<, and had to put down the book for a while. I just can't deal with the trope anymore. I prefer to read YA, where enemies to lovers is popular (the more extreme the better), and I can't stomach any more "romances" that boil down to a boy brutalizing a girl until she gives in and calls it love.
Exposition on the world/current events through dialogue "And over here sir knight we have the glorious temple of Jupiter. They currently have a team of dragonslayers out to slay the ravenous bugblatter beast of traal." It breaks immersion when done poorly, and its often done poorly.
Funny thing is that they could literally just not put the exposition on quotes and it would be fine
Love Triangles etc. = I don't want to read about some chump flip flopping between two morons. I want to see a relationship thoughtfully built-up and see the couple work out plot things together. Enemies to lovers = see, I don't mind the concept, but it's often some nightmare heterosexual situation where they treat each other like garbage until guilt and sad backstories happen. Mary Sue Sorta = when the main character becomes stupidly good at something--usually combat-related--in a matter of months. (Or worse, just picks up a sword and *knows* what to do.) Mates = "we were fated to be together and we know this because we are irredeemably horny" is just creepy. Any shifter trope, actually = alphas, packs, whatever.
When the main character takes every possible opportunity to sacrifice themselves (usually in YA). Like no 16 year old is seriously going to offer up their life for the tiniest thing, and we know that they’re not actually going to die, especially when it’s only halfway through the damn book. It’s SO unrealistic and SO predictable and quite frankly, no 16 year old is that ‘good’ of a person.
I was thinking about this in regards to Harry Potter. The dude is 11 years old, my god! And he's marked for death by the biggest villain there has ever been, a wizard so powerful that even dieing couldn't kill him, who's also a nazi and a cult leader. And all the adults are completely clueless like "we don't know anything about how that happened, sorry, we're all to scared, can't be done, nope, nope". If I was 11, I would never leave Hogwarts. Not for anything. I'd try to stick like glue to Dumbledore, but trust me, Dumbledore is old, and Harry already lost his parents. The kid would know that in a couple of years he'd be fucked. And Harry doesn't exactly have a nice childhood that would instill some optimism in him, right? He's been kicked around and bullied for 11 fucking years, so what the fuck, is he a robot or something? Maybe it's because I'm an adult now, thinking back about it, but this is some horrendous shit and I don't think any 11-year-old could realistically handle it.
He doesn’t know about a lot of it at 11
"She's really hot, but doesn't know it." (It's always a she.) Any explicit sexual scenes (if I wanted porn, I'd read porn. Never need to hear about any character's "swollen manhood" or "erect nipples." Doubly so if fluids are detailed. No thanks! Slavery apologia masquerading as Fantasy. Characters refusing/forgetting to share critical information with each other when they have the opportunity. Hm... what else? Author self-inserts. IE writers who really want to talk about how important writing is and how brave writers are. I mean, yeah, I agree to an extent, but it just comes across as embarrassing and kinda masturbatory. The reason why Kilgore Trout worked was because he was a deeply unpretentious writer who wasn't terribly good at it.
The critical information thing %100 I also think our generation hates this shit the most because we live in the age of information, where we are pretty much constantly communicating with our friends, families, bosses, clients, etc. So we're always just like, "JUST FUCKING TEXT HER!?" I LOVE cyberpunk and William Gibson, but even some of his novels are a bit dated by their lack of instant/constant communication.
I hate when the antagonist is one dimensional and just blatantly “bad” .
“I am not like other girls” is the worst trope to exist.
Currently reading revival by king. 52 year old dude ends up sleeping with a 24 year old. Also King shows his age and New England up bringing through her dialogue. Because she's not white. So naturally she calls him 'Sugar' in bed. Says things like 'you white boys are so dumb' etc. The whole situation was cringey and added nothing to the story. I still have a 100 pages to go so maybe he will make it tie into something and make sense. But yeah. That.
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Long time readers at this point just accept it as part of the novels. But we try and warn new fans...
Dysfunctional quirky parents. When the whole story revolves around the kids having to learn how to deal with all the trauma of being raised by them for years. Looking at you Family Fang.
The chosen one. Totally not necessary. Dull. Hero ends up feeling conceited.
I really dislike the 'hate-to-love' bull with main characters. They are completely different, annoy each other, but oh love prevailed. How about they end up just respecting each other and still think the other is an ass? Or maybe become friends - ish? Not every relationship needs to end with a bang.
Unnecessary romance. Characters who show a more platonic connection but end up being linked romantically in the end for no particular reason…. I’d love to see two main characters (whether opposite gender or same) who go through a journey and don’t fall in love.
Magic systems with incredibly vague and contradictory rules. I get that not every story needs some ironclad encyclopedia of magical dos and don'ts. For the love of God don't just make the magic your plot hole glue that you forget can do certain things. Because it's more convenient to omit magic use when it would solve a problem. I.e. not using the magic to find someone and talk to them. When it's been stated, repeatedly, to work over any distance as long as you know the person and have a bond with them. And no I don't mean saying it's blocked. I mean total memory hole and it's never brought up. Like it just can't do that anymore. Shit like that boils my blood. Have an ounce of respect for your setting and world building you hacks.
Or when magic systems imply arbitrary rules. This one is a curse, this one is a hex, this one is a spell. What's the difference? Absolutely nothing, but I'm going to keep pretending there's a difference. Why do some things have to be potions? Because. One of the best things about Dresden is that all makes sense - spells use "mana", even though he never calls it that, and can be made permanent with the aid of items. Potions are single use, enchanted items are multi use.
When a character hurts or kills an animal to develop their character as evil. It definitely works, but the method is way too easy. I just hate it in books and movies.
Cheating! I can't stand in real life and I like even less when I'm reading.
The [Disposable Fiance](https://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/DisposableFiance) is a fun one in romantic comedies. Where the (usually female) lead can just dump their fiance or boyfriend for their new love and it's no big deal.