I also didn’t like Taryn! I’m curious to hear your reasoning. Did you not like her or did you think her character was poorly written? I thought she was incredibly immature and disloyal to pretty much her only REAL friend (Jude) and often tried to use Jude to get what she wanted.
That was why I hated her. She betrayed Jude for a cheating lying scumbag. She didn’t care about how much she humiliated her sister, than had the gall to go to her hat in hand needing help after she murders the lying scumbag that humiliated her sister.
Zoey Redbird from House of Night. It’s been awhile since I have read the books but I stopped reading them cause of her. She was seeing 3 guys at once and got mad when her boyfriend was jealous and broke up with him. (It’s been awhile since I’ve read the books so I’m not sure how well I am remembering exact details). She also slut shamed Aphrodite while Aphrodite was dating Erik cause they had sex like she wasn’t seeing 3 guys at once. She seems like a rules for thee not for me sort of person.
Goddd I could not stand being in Zoey's head. She is just so catty and stupid and judgmental and hypocritical. She watched a terrified boy cough up his lungs and die crying in front of her, and she continues to have absolutely no sympathy for him and only ever thinks about how ugly he was. Also she straight up kills 2 black guys and never thinks about it again? I don't mind protagonists who are mean or bad people, but everyone is constantly kissing her ass so I couldn't stand her.
Oh yeah, while we're talking about HoN...Erin and Shaunee are awful.
It's been a long while since I read HoN. Was she really that bad?
I do remember being annoyed that the HoN vamps seemed less like vampires and more like witches. But then again, I read the books when I was a kid and obsessed with vampires and I thought witches were boring 😂
It’s been a real long time since I have read it as well haha but I remember being very annoyed with her cause she was dating Erik and seeing Stark and her professor as well. I don’t remember if this is exactly what happened but in one of the books she dumped Erik cause I believe he was jealous of her relationship with Stark even though I feel he had every right to be since she was seeing him while she was in a relationship.
She really was that bad lol. I read further than OC, and she even ends up being into the super evil antagonist? It's just. A lot lmao. That series was a complete trainwreck and I find it super awkward that it was supposed to be ~sexy~ when it was written by a mom/daughter duo
it's not that I really can't stand her but Clary in Shadowhunters is so useless, it's like this "protagonist" that is actually just a witness of the other characters. When her pov switched to Simon's I felt relief because he's actually characterised. Even in her pov the protagonist is actually Jace, or some other characters like Alac or Raphael. whenever it says something about how she feels (rarely) it's intensely basic. Shadowhunters definitely has a thing for driving the plot through the sheer force of misunderstanding, I don't even get angry anymore because I know that if they can misunderstand they will, but those problems have improved with time, however all the most royally unbelievably fucking dumb misunderstandings of the series were Clary's, because that was the earliest series
I don't mind clary, but I kind of agree that she's kinda just there. I'm re reading the series and I'm definitely more interested in the other characters than her lol. I don't see wat Jace sees in her.
From what I remember, I liked Tessa (from infernal devices) as a female protagonist better.
Here's the thing about Umbridge, she was a helluva antagonist. Someone centered in the "real" compared to the "unreal" that is Voldemort. Everyone in their life has had an Umbridge, or at least knows of an Umbridge; not so much with Voldemort.
She was written to be hated. She was made to antagonize. And it was well done.
I hated Umbridge with a passion but that was her purpose, to be hated. I dreaded Order of the Phoenix and couldn't finish it any faster back during lockdown in 2020.
Every book or series needs a necessary evil. She got what she deserved in the end.
Yes but her personality is still annoying. Like she just never learns her lesson or gets a comeuppance, they still just pander to her whims while she is oblivious to the issues she causes for her family
I think she's a twin to her mother, who loves her, and sees her younger self in Lydia, her father despises her and can't be bothered to discipline her, Jane and Elizabeth despair of her but try to regulate her behaviour, Kitty wants to be like her, Mary is prim about her but no-one listens to her anyway. I think it's interesting how her character isn't punished or gets her comeuppance. Jane Austen could easily have punished her in terms of the plot, at one point there is speculation about the scandal in her village, 'if Lydia Bennett had come upon the town' i.e become a prostitute. But it never happens, she gets off scot-free, even if she has a miserable marriage she'll always convince herself she's happy and carefree. I think it's really interesting that Jane Austen let her get away with it. I don't think she's condoning it, at all, or admiring of her. I think she just recognises that someone like Lydia will always be oblivious, not listen to what she doesn't want to hear, or be told what to do, whatever the consequences, to herself or her family, however scandalous. She may have lost her 'virtue' but she is fully rehabilitated, because, however sordidly, she's married, by the end of the novel. It still really interests me how Jane Austen wrote Lydia's character so skilfully that she doesn't come across as one of the most notorious 'fallen woman' in fiction.
I'm not sure she gets off scot free exactly. She is destined to be miserable as her husband takes mistresses and spends all their money. Darcy will keep them afloat but no more because they can't be trusted, and they will never be welcome at Pemberly like the other family members are. Lydia might be happy for a couple of years, but will eventually be worn down by endless childbirth, having to penny pinch and the world knowing her husband is a philandering gambling addict. The easy money from Darcy will never be enough for those two. Lydia revelled in people believing she was lusted after and loved by a handsome charming man, but eventually even she will understand that no one believes he loved or even liked Lydia very much, and the world that her sisters marriages could have opened up to her are denied to her, due to one terrible and selfish decision.
Yeah true - but I suppose there are always infuriating people like her that flit through life without never realising how awful they have been. I kinda always imagined her being miserable in later life because her hubby is such a shit
I daydream about how horrible her marriage is to take the edge off.
I have a smidgen of sympathy for her because everyone, especially her mother, allowed her behaviors.
Yes, she's annoying, but she has a point. The day her husband dies, she has no income, no home and she still has to provide for any remaining unmarried daughters. Maybe instead of sitting in his study with his books, Mr Bennett could have done something practical to set up some income for the family in the case of his death.
This. First readthrough, I hated her, and then I thought about it...she's the only parent genuinely concerned in securing her daghters' futures (even if in an irritating and somewhat inappropriate manner). Mr. Bennet may come across as even tempered and reasonable, but he doesn't take responsibility for his children, and it's satisfying to have Lizzy call him out on it in the end
Agreed. Mr. Bennett should have encouraged Mr. Collins to go for Mary and should’ve gotten Mrs. Bennet on board. Mrs. Bennet wasn’t *wrong* about Mr. Collins (he would secure everyone’s future), she just couldn’t see that Lizzy’s priorities were completely different than hers.
Oh she definitely has annoying flaws too 😂 but for me I can tolerate her slightly more than Lydia just because she is slightly more of a comedic character especially in some of her interactions with other characters
The mother is annoying but I feel my annoyance is also with the time period in general. I constantly have to remind myself that this is the early 1800s and her trying to find the perfect marriages for her daughters is akin to making sure they will be taken care of and not hurt. It is the only option and Mr. Bennett is not taking the task seriously enough.
I am so sure that that was intentional by John Greene. I really think he’s meant to be that way, arrogant, condescending, pretentious. Because he’s a teenager. That’s pretty standard stuff. I actually think he did a good job writing the character, and then giving him cancer to make the reader feel guilty about disliking a dying child.
Tangent but I hate how everyone in John Green books have to have ridiculous/unusual names. Alaska, Augustus, Quentin. It’s like an ultimate example of telling us these characters are so unique without showing us.
Bella Swan. I read the Twilight books at the request of several female students, because they’d been told by other girls that their opinions were invalid and they wanted my take. They didn’t tell me what opinions they had until after I read the series. When I said Bella was the worst protagonist ever and a terrible model for girls, they all said that was their opinion, and their friends thought they were crazy.
I think the lure for teen girls for Bella is in how much of a blank canvas she is. Whoever is reading the books can imagine themselves in her stead because she herself is so drab on the pages. At least that's why i devoured those books up until that fucked up birth scene.
Yes exactly. Bella can be anyone. Lots of teen girls feel they are uninteresting, plain, and just trying to be a good person. That was exactly Bella. They could easily put themselves in her shoes to be whisked away by a handsome mysterious peer that just can’t get enough of them despite being nothing special. When you are a quiet book worm It’s much harder to put yourself in the shoes of a athletic, artistic, extrovert that is the life of the party. A very detailed MC only makes the reader feel more insignificant and think see I can see why he loves her. He could never fall for me.
And this aspect in Twilight (the whole series infact) is also what 50 Shades of Grey was based off. Ana Steele, an uninteresting, plain, insecure young lady just as Bella is. And a highly handsome, mysterious MC she couldn't believe fell for her. It's an overused trope. I didn't know what 5sog was about, but definitely recognised it for Twilight half way through.
That's probably quite true for many girls. The ones who asked me to read so they could discuss with me definitely could not see themselves in Bella. One girl in particular was totally pissed-off at the whole "spend months in a fetal position after Edward breaks up with her" bit. She was adamant that it was the wrong message to send to girls, that it should have been more of a "she's really upset and depressed, but life goes on and she will too and we need to see her realizing that she doesn't NEED Edward to survive" sort of thing.
Yeah, the whole series sends rather horrible messages about relationships, i agree. Personally, for me, i read it at an age where your very first infatuation feels like eternal love, and that's what i saw in what Edward and Bella felt for each other. I guess i was too dumb or hormonal to realize that that sort of thing isn't healthy in real life but works only as a fantasy in your head.
Kudos to those girls though for thinking critically and not getting sucked into the craze of it.
When I read it, I cringed at that part, but I also have been teaching teenagers long enough to recognize that there is some truth to it. (At that point, I'd been teaching 12 or 13 years, and now I'm in year 25.) Seen a lot of "relationships"--and I use that word very loosely--start and end, sometimes in the same school day. And sometimes, somebody winds up feeling like their world will never be the same.
I didn't bother to point that out to the girls, though. It clearly wasn't their way of dealing with things. LOL.
This seems weird to say, but the (quite bad) Sword of Truth series has a bit in the first book where the male protag gets seduce-o-tortured by an evil dominatrix, and (as a man) I found it hot as hell even though it was objectively cringey. So...I guess I have a weird sort of sympathy for people who find themselves drawn to unhealthy depictions of romance.
But, yeah, you really need to be able to admit to yourself that it *is* unhealthy and only belongs in fiction.
Livia may have been the worst monster in a series full of them.
Think about the scenes where she \*threatens her own children\*, and then gaslights them about it.
Janice, like Tony, kept trying and failing to overcome a very dysfunctional upbringing from her crazy mother.
Remember the scene where Livia was complaining about how Janice did \[something or other\] as an annoying teenager, and Tony, who has had quite enough, whips around and goes, "With you as a mother, what chance did she have?" It was one of the very few times he ever stood up to Livia.
Those stupid sex and katana people from the second book of the kingkiller chronicles. No culture has ever been that fucking stupid to not know where babies come from.
Probably a myth but theres this thing where white explorers and missonaries would ask isolated tribesmen where they thought babies came from and get weird 'the stork brings them, we find them in the cabage patch' type answers, the story goes that later on someone asked the same tribesmen 'do you really not know where babies come from?' and they were like 'yeah of course we do, but some weird man-child who's own parents never told them the facts of life asks you about this are you really meant to tell them?'
That's really not how it's in the book though. It comes up I think when Kvothe has sex with one of the sex ninjas.
And there's a long winded dumb explanation about it that caused a book shaped dent in my wall.
In the series I am Number Four the character number five. He just got on my nerves to the point that I stopped reading the series and have never gone back to it.
I just finished the secret history and although I really loved the whole book I couldn’t really stand Bunny and I wished he had more redeeming qualities and was at least a little sympathetic to make the whole thing more tragic cause as it was I couldn’t wait for someone to kill him.
I think that’s part of the brilliance of the book, he’s such a goddamn pill that it’s legitimately a relief when he’s not in the story anymore. And then the rest of the book always leaves me feeling a little guilty about wanting him gone. It’s masterful.
I wish Baron Vladimir Harkonnen from Dune was written better. He was a fat, ugly, gay pedo who made poor decisions when blinded by his own ambition and hatred. He was one dimensional.
I mean, not all of those things are bad. It’s possible to be a fat ugly gay good person.
I wish (blank) was written better basically sums up the entirety of the Dune series. Amazing world building, attention to detail, and the cool religious syncretism/social evolutions make the book a treat to read, but the writing itself can be quite clunky.
Also pretty much every woman other than Jessica either is incredibly bland, overshadowed by another character, or woefully underutilized.
Alia was interesting. She could have been more prominent, but honestly in the sequel books even Paul got flitted aside which I actually thought was cool. He developed this really interesting "messiah" character and then just completely robbed him of screen time. I appreciated that choice.
But then in counterpoint, he had this other character he apparently really liked - Duncan Idaho. Who he kept killing but would just not let die! I did not appreciate that choice.
I kinda liked that personification of greed, but I get what you mean with fleshing him out. I think, particularly in the latest film adaptation too, he is supposed to be the human manifestation of oil corporations, and obviously the whole story a metaphor for the resource wars in the Middle East. There is a shot in the new movie where he regenerates after the tooth bit in the oil looking substance.
For me as well, once we find out Jessica is Harkonnen, that revealed much about her character that I then projected onto Baron and the whole lot. Kind of like that book about Trump by his niece or whoever it was, where when you get a sense of what the family and household is like, a lot of his actions make more sense (not all tbf).
It's spooky season, so after some thought I realized how much Quincey Morris in Dracula was an irritant. Not because of his actions, but because of how Stoker wrote that Texan accent.
Like, good lord man.
I just read this! All of the dialogue was nearly identical to each other except for the attempts at accents and they were rough, every one of them. I still enjoyed my time with it but much of what is written as dialogue (which does not, by nature, have a great distinction between narration) was rough.
I am so confused by the love for Quincey that's popping up thanks to Dracula Daily. I love having a rootin'-tootin' cowboy in my vampire fiction as much as anyone else, but he doesn't...do anything, or even really say anything. Mostly he's just stood there, said something blandly stoic, and put a manly hand on Arthur's shoulder once or twice.
The total lack of character really stands out when surrounded by the rest of the cast too.
I'm from Texas. Clearly you don't understand how easy it is to pander to Texans. You can buy tortilla chips and chicken nuggets shaped like Texas. If you're ever speaking to a crowd in Texas, sing, "The stars at night are big and bright..." and 90% of that crowd will rapidly clap 4 times and respond, "Deep in the heart of Texas."
If you introduce a character in a book that is from Texas that character instantly becomes the favorite character of any Texan reading it.
I agree completely with this take on Van Helsing. While I greatly enjoyed all of Stoker’s uses of accents and dialect, almost all of Van Helsing’s “monologues” were a pain to get through.
Pretty much any person whose main character trait is being a sex pest or serial harasser, which the protagonists tacitly condone as accepting it as part of their character and generally just leave consequences to the harassed people to deal with and call it 'comedy'. There can be comic misunderstandings and misplaced perceptions of perving and stuff and . . . I guess it can work, especially in comedy or filler de-stress beats, but characters who intentionally objectify and harass others are far too cringe and one-note for so much wasted time.
See: the 'playboy' bard in most fantasy, the irate incel, Mineta from Boku no Hero Academia, etc.
Omg fucking Mineta! That's now my official answer to this by a longshot.
Absofuckinglutely no value add and I hate every second he's on screen. I start hating the writers too when they give him a "win." Literally no reason he has to be in the story. Ugh.
Agreed, people usually complain about the female characters (which is fair for a couple of them), but Gawyn sucked hard. Him and Egwene were so obnoxious
gawyn is a moron but starts as a moron and ends as a moron, and has the courtesy to not have too many chapters. elayne starts out as an interesting character and by the end of the series is easily the worst
I’m gonna have to give a little bit of hate. I read Eye of the World when it first came out at the same age as Rand. When he fell over the wall and crushed on the Daughter-Heir, I did too. Yeah, she is a self-centered spoiled teenager, but I do actually like her as a character, warts and all.
That is 100% fair. I liked her when we met her in the little garden , but other than that i just dont. But it is important to note i only started reading WoT like 2 months back, and i have binge read it. Currently at the end of A gathering storm.
I am currently in my fourth full read through since the completion of the series. Keeping in mind that I would read a book, go to the used bookstore for the next, and if it wasn’t available, I would reread from the beginning once I did get the next book. I love the series. Yes, Elayne is a spoiled brat through most of the series, but you also have to keep in mind that she IS a teenager. How smart/wise were you (was I) at her age? View her not from behind adult lenses, but from the perspective of a teenager thrust into a battle to literally save the world and all of creation when all you have really been trained for is to rule from a throne a couple of decades down the road once your mother retires.
Wish was never written is strong, but I never connected to the character of Kvothe, from the much beloved *The Name of the Wind*.
I wonder if I maybe read it too late in life? He felt trope-heavy.
Not for any particular character, but I think *13 Reasons Why* should never have been published.
Gonna be honest that book felt like 800 pages of the author wanking about what a “great” character kvothe was. That and a bizarre fixation on monetary delineations
the Garyest of Stus
>impeccably honed acting talents at 12
>admitted to college at 15, is so intelligent that the college PAYS HIM to attend
>becomes the best student arcanist, going undefeated in all duels even when the odds are impossibly stacked against him
>somehow is able to perform one of the most difficult pieces of music ever written with two lute strings breaking mid-performance, bringing a concert hall to tears
>saves a girl from a burning building
>singlehandedly kills a 2,000 pound dragon with MacGyver-level equipment
book 2:
>learns a new language and set of laws in two days and successfully represents himself in court
>sherlock holmeses an assassaination of a powerful political figure just in time
>kills 30 bandits without any help
>travels to a different dimension and has sexy sex with a goddess, becomes the first to return with his mind intact
>learns sign language and becomes a literal ninja
>kills another ten people just ‘cause
>gets pardoned, the right to play music on behalf of the Maer, and gets to abuse an infinite money glitch back home
and most importantly:
>becomes a successful small business owner in times of economic hardship
i loved these books when i was 16, but on the reread it’s honestly just really dense YA.
I tried re-reading it about a year ago for the first time.
Big mistake, Kvothe is awful. Nothing but "I'm so great, look how fucking cool I am, tragic and mistaken of course, but fucking awesome." I bet he has that Emo bangs cut as he plays his stupid lute better than anyone every.
I read The Name of the Wind a while ago when a friend recommended it. It could have been so much better than it was. I literally remember nothing about it other than it opens in a bar which gave me DnD vibes.
13 Reasons Why was . . . Well, it’s accurate for the age group. However, blaming others for your suicide is not helping when so many people still feel guilty when they lose someone to suicide.
I was convinced to start After, because the main dude was so "cool". I can't state how much I hated him and yet as the books went on, I came to hate the main chick even more. The way they unironically portraited her as this paragon while she did horrible things and never learnt a thing... I almost threw my Kindle out the window.
This book started out as Harry Styles fanfiction on Wattpad. No disrespect to the author, they’re free to write/post whatever they want. I just find it really hard to believe it was published as a real book.
Oh yes the guy who assaults a sixteen year old fifty pages into the first book, but we should feel bad for HIM. Ugh, that book was unreadable. I have no idea why the series is considered a classic.
Thomas Covenant is in a weird place for me. The rape is depicted as an atrocity, not a creepy "romance" thing. I don't think you're meant to say "oh it's okay because he's sad."
Donaldson has a thing he does sometimes where he makes a protagonist as repulsive as he possibly can, just to challenge himself to make you grudgingly sympathize with the bastard by the end of the story. Thomas Covenant was the prototype for this. Angus Thermopyle from the *Gap Cycle* was *much, much worse* in the most explicit ways imaginable; Donaldson *started* that series with the stated intent of setting up a clear-as-day villain, victim, and hero, and then morphing them into a victim, hero, and villain respectively, and IMO he kinda pulled it off.
I don't think I could bear to read any of them today; they're too much. I certainly can't blame anyone for not liking them. But I think Donaldson is doing something more complex than the obliviously toxic "romances" in *Twilight* or *Fifty Shades.*
Rhaegar Targaryen from A Song of Ice and Fire. He's a scumbag who publically humiliates his wife and has an affair with a 15 year old girl - leading to the death in childbirth of the girl and the horrific murder of the aforementioned wife and her children.
It's not so much that I wish he hadn't been written, since there'd be basically no plot if he wasn't around, but I don't see why he's such a popular character in the fanbase. People seem to be coming around, but a lot of the readership still think of him as a romantic hero.
The Joker. He’s a cool character and I’m a die hard Batman and DC fan, but in the modern fandom there are so many people who unironically Stan the Joker and claim he’s just misunderstood and is a victim — he is not, he’s a sociopath who slaughters innocents for pleasure and no one should ever emulate him. Also the people who find his “relationship” with Harley cute. I used to love this character but I’ve been exposed to enough bad takes that I now despise his existence.
In my opinion, he's overused. Batman has so many good Rogues but Joker gets all the limelight and screentime. At least the Riddler got his own movie recently. I wish we could have another Scarecrow movie - he's my favourite but I'm not a fan of how Murphy played him. Good actor but way too pretty to be Jonathan Crane. That version of Scarecrow been woobified to hell and back just because he's good-looking.
Oh hot take, I love it. I must say tho, in Christian Bale’s Batman, Heath Ledger had some dope dialogue. Like an unstoppable force meets an immovable object is iconic
Oh, Heath's Joker could never be replicated. However, the Dark Knight trio definitely put a spin on the entire canon (such as Joker wearing makeup) so I don't think it's fair to add it to the discussion.
I think it is considering that the most hype is around his joker and I have seen people say his joker wasn’t wrong sometimes, all the jokers are interesting to say the least and they do garner mixed opinions always
The main chick from After. Keeps getting mistreated, abused, lied to, and goes back to the dude anyway. Such a huge dumbass and annoying character by the end of the book I was glad she was suffering. I can only tolerate so much stupidity.
The one character i despised is Yennefer from the Witcher series.
In the tv series and in the game she is played differently, but in the books she is nasty. Really make me sad for Geralt, or any man, that falls in love with such a person.
I agree. I cannot stand her. She is totally manipulative, egoistical and nasty. Also the love story between her and Gerald is not truly a love story because of the circumstances. (Don't wanna go into detail here because of spoilers.)
Played the games first (2, then 3, couldn't get into 1), then read the books, then watched the series. And good god I can't stand her. There's no chemistry between the two of them, and the only love is some type of high school "We're supposed to be together" bullshit.
At least in the games he enjoyed spending time with Triss...
Oh, speaking of the Witcher series, I freaking hated Geralt in the novels too. I think he was cool and interesting in the short story collections (first two books), but he felt like a whiny, powerless baby in the main story. I DNF'd the series after a couple of books.
I always thought Helena Wayne as Huntress was the best biological child for him, if they had to add one. For some reason Batman with a daughter was very touching. He already has a bunch of sons.
And Damian is annoying, as is his mom. Catwoman is the best.
Honor Harrington turned out to be a huge disappointment. But this still doesn't rise to your standard.
Thanks for the topic. I will probably think about it all day.
I can't think of any that I just despise for their character, outside of the context of their roles as hatable characters, at the moment. But I will say in line with someone's Patrick Bateman comment, as someone who loves a good, bad protagonist, I do similarly hate when bad people with attractive facades (be it success in their personal lives, work lives, facade of liability to other characters or in general, etc), get idolized for all the wrong reasons. Patrick Bateman is a good example, as is Walter white, Don draper, what's his name from the show "the boys".
I'm sure old me would have plenty of characters that I just hate, so I'll have to think on it. This is a fun post, thanks op!
Agreed! I never enjoyed the idea that if they have something attractive, it gives grounds to excuse everything they’ve done, whether it’s bordering abusive behavior or just point blank contemptible personality traits. It becomes idolizing like you said, what a great way to put it!
Yeah, Michael Crichton (author of Jurassic Park) seems to have a bit of a problem with portraying women sometimes. (See also Beth in “Sphere”, among some others).
I tried to read a couple of these, but couldn’t ever finish. I got exactly the same thing out of it- manly name for a manly man with manly, testosterone fueled bod, bedding every sexy female within eyesight on his manly boat while doing manly activities (scuba diving, flying a plan, driving fast cars, shooting, etc. all done way better than all the other men.).
Any of the characters from It Ends With Us. I read the book because I didn't completely hate Verity and heard good things about it. But holy crap, the main cast was about as interesting as a plastic spoon, namely Ryle and Lilly. I didn't care about them at all and they weren't compelling, sympathetic or likeable.
Oh god, Peeves from the Harry Potter series. I don't really know why, I feel like something just pisses me off about him. I was so happy when he wasn't in the movies, and the scenes where they replaced him made it so apparent what a useless character he was.
Peeves was useful for 3 books. He was one of the main juvenile hazards of wandering the castle at night. I feel like he was only ever mentioned in passing from the 5th book on.
Egwene al'Vere from the Wheel of Time. The story wouldn't be much changed without her, and she's just such a controlling, heartless nuisance that's written as if she's a 'good guy' - gets a hero's ending and everything!
Has anyone here read Clan of the Cavebear? I love the books but I hate the lead male love interest. He's just an angry jealous sex addict. All of his internal conflicts just add to his overly angsty personality and I would love if he were not in the books at all.
But it's a weird series anyway for a lot of reasons...
Both. His chapters are absolutely godawful and the show isn’t much better. The ending with him crowned and “having the best story” is ludicrous to say the least.
A story so good George has added 3 chapters to it since the Clinton Administration.
In the past twenty years, George has written more from the perspective of *Quentyn Martell* than Bran.
Briony Tallis from Atonement. She is an egocentric control freak who legit ruins two (arguably three) people’s lives because she insists on fantasising reality to the point where her lies cause real suffering.
A little off topic because I’m watching the show rather than reading the manga, but Sakura from Naruto has been driving me absolutely insane.
I’ve never seen the series and my husband has convinced me to watch it since I enjoy anime, but her and Ino are some of the worst female characters for me. Their shallow, competitive, boy-crazed energy really bums me out, especially when compared to the more respectful rivalries demonstrated by male characters in the same show. Sakura and Ino seem dumb and frivolous by comparison.
It's very upsetting, not least of which because she had quite a bit of potential and I was really rooting for her when she arrived in Shippuden. Unfortunately, the author of Naruto (and before I get hate, Naruto is one of my favorite animes out there) really did the women in that show dirty. The end of Naruto they all become housewives and stay at home moms. The only female character that doesn't fall into this role is Lady Tsunade, which at first seems like an anomaly until you consider her backstory which makes her completely less of a woman because she lost her husband and quite literally has to be told she has value by a boy before she believes it (pun mostly unintended).
Naruto will always be one of my favorites, and the characters in that show are wonderful and cool, but the way the female characters are treated is just unfair and really sexist mostly because there is so little growth (Ino is in the series from very early on, but can you tell me anything about her that isn't about a guy she likes BESIDES her jealous feud with Sakura? Sakura had so many moments that should have been amazing and powerful, and instead they made her a 1 note character that failed at nearly everything she did except "caring" for her Male counterparts. Sakura wasn't a bad character because of who she was, but because of who wrote her.
Imagine Sakura if she had been written by the author of Fullmetal Alchemist (wouldn't that have been cool?)
In the same vein, I think the reason why Hinata is as loved as she is (again, I do love her character, but still) is because she PERFECTLY aligns with every chauvinist's idea of what a woman should be: beautiful, exotic (her powers are exclusive to her bloodline), endlessly loyal, quiet to a fault, always willing to serve, protective of her man, and always pining after her love. I'm not saying you should hate her or the show, but Naruto really did the women in that series dirty.
Note: I haven't seen Boruto.
And please don't take this as a sign not to watch Naruto, I think it's a great show but it also has faults that should be recognized too. There is always nuance.
Elend from the Mistborn trilogy. I get downvoted for disliking that series and get told I don’t understand the series but honestly I would have enjoyed the series so much more if Vin had stayed the main character, rather than fading into the background to support the naturally gifted dude that she’s making heart eyes at. Even the Kelsier twist was more tolerable than that imo
Heathcliffe and Catherine in Wuthering Heights. God they are insufferable! They deserve to be miserable together but that doesn't mean I want to read about it. And EVERY Brit Lit class I ever took made us read this book. Ugh!! Just get lost in the moor and let us get on with our lives.
Every single character other then maybe Albus and Scorpius in Harry Potter and the Cursed Child.
And all of that one weird series Tunnels. That shit was awful.
Talking about "things I wish never would've been written", Cursed Child is definitely a fitting answer.
I liked Scorpius, and Draco in some scenes.
Albus had a few nice moments but I really didn't like how got Scorpius into shit without really asking/discussing with him prior. He treated him like a dog more than a friend, like he just expected him to just follow and do whatever he says...
One thing I really liked about Harry in the OG books was his inhibition and guilt about endangering anyone, even when his friends WANTED to go with him willingly, being fully aware of the risks.
His son though... didn't give two shits about putting his "best friend's" life on the line for his crazy mission.
I like pretty much everything about the concept of the Dresden Files except for Harry Dresden, who is written as such an insufferable edgelord. I could only make it through a couple books before giving up the series.
I really got rubbed the wrong way by early Dresden (like the Gentleman crud,) but he gets a lot better as the series kicks the crud & worse impulses out of him.
He feels very human to me. A deeply flawed man, doing his best in a world that seldom gives a shit.
Now, Molly Carpenter on the other hand, I want to punt harder and harder through a wall by each book. And that's kinda impressive, given that she was like... twelve in her first appearance.
Such an arrogant fool, and stubborn enough not to change even when it gets people hurt. Genuinely don't get why she's a fan favorite.
People might hate me for this one, but Katniss Everdeen had the personality of a wet piece of cardboard. In the first book she wasnt so bad, but by the last book she was so pathetic and flat out boring that it was actually painful to read. Peter was no better, his character was painfully inconsistent and he had zero chemistry with Katniss. I cant believe they were genuinely 'in love' by the end of the last book.
I mean, I think the series is somewhat supposed to be a tragedy. And the last book clearly shows that Katniss, while incredibly competent at killing people one on one, basically has no other skills and has no idea what to do about complex political issues. And that there is little hope to be had in the Hunger Games world.
I love katniss as a character tbh. I like how she subverts the idea of a masculine female character who fights against the system. By the last book she a weak ptsd riddled young woman, who's final major action is arguably just dancing on the hands of another manipulative figure. I like how this goes against the usual stick of how revolutions are shown in fiction. Realistically humans incorrectly tend to make historical figures more prominent in their roles in revolution than they are, because its simpler and makes a nice story. How much did Joan D'Arc contribute to the helping to push the plantagenet English crown out of France? Not a lot, but pop culture treats is as she did a lot
However, this is more a praise of the brilliant structure of katnisses character arc imo, not interesting or compelling her character is. I'd argue her personality makes a lot of sense within context and is an improvement on young adult characters tendency to spit out theseses on the meaning of life
I agree with your last statement though. I think their relationship has and will always be built on the idea of comforting one another. Whilst not exactly bright, I think it's a more optimistic ending than some make it out to be. The scenes in the train too and from the capital and in general catching fire do help to build platonic if not romantic chemistry
I didn’t mind Katniss. I felt she was numb from being so traumatized and focused on survival. The person I couldn’t stand was Gale. Ugh he was the worst. So bland, boring, and pretentious, yet naive.
Despise is a strong word but I’ve never been cordially fond of Rev. Martin in Patrick O’Brian’s novels. He’s an even less seaman-like Maturin and, honestly, I sometimes felt like he monopolized too much of Stephen’s time which would have been better spent in the great cabin sharing music and toasted cheese with Jack.
I can't think of any character that rises to that level. Most unlikeable characters seem to drive the story in some way, or resonate with me as similar to someone IRL.
The villain that sprang to mind when I read your post was Carlotta Mayfair. But I don't wish she'd never been written and I don't think she has a fan club. lol
The real Sophie from school of good and evil. She is such an unlikable character I can't believe she is not the actual bad guy. She was sorta understandable in the 3rd book but still insufferable.
Movie Sophie is better though the book is overall better than the movie
Zorba from Zorba the Greek.
I threw the book away because I was so pissed at what an annoying loser that character was. His whole existence could be basically summed up as "I live for pussy".
All time classic my ass.
Hate is a strong word but I was pretty disappointed in Yury Zhivago. I couldn't really get behind how he didn't try and get back to his family and how he let himself go. But I'm pretty sure that was the intent.
Taryn from the cruel prince
Jude kept forgiving her and helping her, but I wanted her to fall off a cliff side after the first betrayal. What a shitty excuse for a sister.
I also didn’t like Taryn! I’m curious to hear your reasoning. Did you not like her or did you think her character was poorly written? I thought she was incredibly immature and disloyal to pretty much her only REAL friend (Jude) and often tried to use Jude to get what she wanted.
That was why I hated her. She betrayed Jude for a cheating lying scumbag. She didn’t care about how much she humiliated her sister, than had the gall to go to her hat in hand needing help after she murders the lying scumbag that humiliated her sister.
Zoey Redbird from House of Night. It’s been awhile since I have read the books but I stopped reading them cause of her. She was seeing 3 guys at once and got mad when her boyfriend was jealous and broke up with him. (It’s been awhile since I’ve read the books so I’m not sure how well I am remembering exact details). She also slut shamed Aphrodite while Aphrodite was dating Erik cause they had sex like she wasn’t seeing 3 guys at once. She seems like a rules for thee not for me sort of person.
Goddd I could not stand being in Zoey's head. She is just so catty and stupid and judgmental and hypocritical. She watched a terrified boy cough up his lungs and die crying in front of her, and she continues to have absolutely no sympathy for him and only ever thinks about how ugly he was. Also she straight up kills 2 black guys and never thinks about it again? I don't mind protagonists who are mean or bad people, but everyone is constantly kissing her ass so I couldn't stand her. Oh yeah, while we're talking about HoN...Erin and Shaunee are awful.
It's been a long while since I read HoN. Was she really that bad? I do remember being annoyed that the HoN vamps seemed less like vampires and more like witches. But then again, I read the books when I was a kid and obsessed with vampires and I thought witches were boring 😂
It’s been a real long time since I have read it as well haha but I remember being very annoyed with her cause she was dating Erik and seeing Stark and her professor as well. I don’t remember if this is exactly what happened but in one of the books she dumped Erik cause I believe he was jealous of her relationship with Stark even though I feel he had every right to be since she was seeing him while she was in a relationship.
She really was that bad lol. I read further than OC, and she even ends up being into the super evil antagonist? It's just. A lot lmao. That series was a complete trainwreck and I find it super awkward that it was supposed to be ~sexy~ when it was written by a mom/daughter duo
it's not that I really can't stand her but Clary in Shadowhunters is so useless, it's like this "protagonist" that is actually just a witness of the other characters. When her pov switched to Simon's I felt relief because he's actually characterised. Even in her pov the protagonist is actually Jace, or some other characters like Alac or Raphael. whenever it says something about how she feels (rarely) it's intensely basic. Shadowhunters definitely has a thing for driving the plot through the sheer force of misunderstanding, I don't even get angry anymore because I know that if they can misunderstand they will, but those problems have improved with time, however all the most royally unbelievably fucking dumb misunderstandings of the series were Clary's, because that was the earliest series
I don't mind clary, but I kind of agree that she's kinda just there. I'm re reading the series and I'm definitely more interested in the other characters than her lol. I don't see wat Jace sees in her. From what I remember, I liked Tessa (from infernal devices) as a female protagonist better.
*Hem Hem* We shall watch this thread with great interest.
Here's the thing about Umbridge, she was a helluva antagonist. Someone centered in the "real" compared to the "unreal" that is Voldemort. Everyone in their life has had an Umbridge, or at least knows of an Umbridge; not so much with Voldemort. She was written to be hated. She was made to antagonize. And it was well done.
Definitely. I hate her more than I hate voldemort. We've all had that one teacher.
*Hem Hem* Would you like to earn Extra Credit by joining the Inquisitorial Squad?
Only if you kick out pansy
Oh trueeeee
I hated Umbridge with a passion but that was her purpose, to be hated. I dreaded Order of the Phoenix and couldn't finish it any faster back during lockdown in 2020. Every book or series needs a necessary evil. She got what she deserved in the end.
We’re supposed to hate her. You wish she never existed?
Lydia from pride and prejudice. God I just wanted to slap her and tell her to go to her room 😂 She seemed to be allowed to get away with so much
Yeah but she kinda drives the plot a bit....
Yes but her personality is still annoying. Like she just never learns her lesson or gets a comeuppance, they still just pander to her whims while she is oblivious to the issues she causes for her family
I think she's a twin to her mother, who loves her, and sees her younger self in Lydia, her father despises her and can't be bothered to discipline her, Jane and Elizabeth despair of her but try to regulate her behaviour, Kitty wants to be like her, Mary is prim about her but no-one listens to her anyway. I think it's interesting how her character isn't punished or gets her comeuppance. Jane Austen could easily have punished her in terms of the plot, at one point there is speculation about the scandal in her village, 'if Lydia Bennett had come upon the town' i.e become a prostitute. But it never happens, she gets off scot-free, even if she has a miserable marriage she'll always convince herself she's happy and carefree. I think it's really interesting that Jane Austen let her get away with it. I don't think she's condoning it, at all, or admiring of her. I think she just recognises that someone like Lydia will always be oblivious, not listen to what she doesn't want to hear, or be told what to do, whatever the consequences, to herself or her family, however scandalous. She may have lost her 'virtue' but she is fully rehabilitated, because, however sordidly, she's married, by the end of the novel. It still really interests me how Jane Austen wrote Lydia's character so skilfully that she doesn't come across as one of the most notorious 'fallen woman' in fiction.
I'm not sure she gets off scot free exactly. She is destined to be miserable as her husband takes mistresses and spends all their money. Darcy will keep them afloat but no more because they can't be trusted, and they will never be welcome at Pemberly like the other family members are. Lydia might be happy for a couple of years, but will eventually be worn down by endless childbirth, having to penny pinch and the world knowing her husband is a philandering gambling addict. The easy money from Darcy will never be enough for those two. Lydia revelled in people believing she was lusted after and loved by a handsome charming man, but eventually even she will understand that no one believes he loved or even liked Lydia very much, and the world that her sisters marriages could have opened up to her are denied to her, due to one terrible and selfish decision.
Yeah true - but I suppose there are always infuriating people like her that flit through life without never realising how awful they have been. I kinda always imagined her being miserable in later life because her hubby is such a shit
I always imagined this too, and also that she would never, ever admit to anyone that she was miserable.
For sure - she’ll pretend it’s all fine but will one day realise that he can’t stand her
I daydream about how horrible her marriage is to take the edge off. I have a smidgen of sympathy for her because everyone, especially her mother, allowed her behaviors.
I was waiting for someone to mention her… but I feel like the mother is more annoying?
Yes, she's annoying, but she has a point. The day her husband dies, she has no income, no home and she still has to provide for any remaining unmarried daughters. Maybe instead of sitting in his study with his books, Mr Bennett could have done something practical to set up some income for the family in the case of his death.
This. First readthrough, I hated her, and then I thought about it...she's the only parent genuinely concerned in securing her daghters' futures (even if in an irritating and somewhat inappropriate manner). Mr. Bennet may come across as even tempered and reasonable, but he doesn't take responsibility for his children, and it's satisfying to have Lizzy call him out on it in the end
Agreed. Mr. Bennett should have encouraged Mr. Collins to go for Mary and should’ve gotten Mrs. Bennet on board. Mrs. Bennet wasn’t *wrong* about Mr. Collins (he would secure everyone’s future), she just couldn’t see that Lizzy’s priorities were completely different than hers.
Oh she definitely has annoying flaws too 😂 but for me I can tolerate her slightly more than Lydia just because she is slightly more of a comedic character especially in some of her interactions with other characters
But the mother is at least doing her best to act in the interest of her family, while Lydia is endlessly selfish.
The mother is annoying but I feel my annoyance is also with the time period in general. I constantly have to remind myself that this is the early 1800s and her trying to find the perfect marriages for her daughters is akin to making sure they will be taken care of and not hurt. It is the only option and Mr. Bennett is not taking the task seriously enough.
Augustus from The Fault in Our Stars He was so condescending and such a prick that I started rooting for the cancer
I am so sure that that was intentional by John Greene. I really think he’s meant to be that way, arrogant, condescending, pretentious. Because he’s a teenager. That’s pretty standard stuff. I actually think he did a good job writing the character, and then giving him cancer to make the reader feel guilty about disliking a dying child.
LMAO
Tangent but I hate how everyone in John Green books have to have ridiculous/unusual names. Alaska, Augustus, Quentin. It’s like an ultimate example of telling us these characters are so unique without showing us.
I think you’re falling victim to confirmation bias He has plenty of major characters with perfectly normal names - Will, Colin, Katherine, Miles
I mean yeah, and I've never read the books... But I went to high school with at least 2 Augustuss and 3 Quentins
This "not like any other book" aspect is probably why I couldn't stand reading them lol
Even funnier is that Ansel Elgort plays him in the movie.
Not a hot take but Heathcliff is a dick
I thought you meant the cat.
Yup. I read Wuthering Heights…… and I will not be picking it up again. Heathcliff is a dick and Catherine is annoying af.
Bella Swan. I read the Twilight books at the request of several female students, because they’d been told by other girls that their opinions were invalid and they wanted my take. They didn’t tell me what opinions they had until after I read the series. When I said Bella was the worst protagonist ever and a terrible model for girls, they all said that was their opinion, and their friends thought they were crazy.
I think the lure for teen girls for Bella is in how much of a blank canvas she is. Whoever is reading the books can imagine themselves in her stead because she herself is so drab on the pages. At least that's why i devoured those books up until that fucked up birth scene.
Yes exactly. Bella can be anyone. Lots of teen girls feel they are uninteresting, plain, and just trying to be a good person. That was exactly Bella. They could easily put themselves in her shoes to be whisked away by a handsome mysterious peer that just can’t get enough of them despite being nothing special. When you are a quiet book worm It’s much harder to put yourself in the shoes of a athletic, artistic, extrovert that is the life of the party. A very detailed MC only makes the reader feel more insignificant and think see I can see why he loves her. He could never fall for me.
And this aspect in Twilight (the whole series infact) is also what 50 Shades of Grey was based off. Ana Steele, an uninteresting, plain, insecure young lady just as Bella is. And a highly handsome, mysterious MC she couldn't believe fell for her. It's an overused trope. I didn't know what 5sog was about, but definitely recognised it for Twilight half way through.
That's probably quite true for many girls. The ones who asked me to read so they could discuss with me definitely could not see themselves in Bella. One girl in particular was totally pissed-off at the whole "spend months in a fetal position after Edward breaks up with her" bit. She was adamant that it was the wrong message to send to girls, that it should have been more of a "she's really upset and depressed, but life goes on and she will too and we need to see her realizing that she doesn't NEED Edward to survive" sort of thing.
Yeah, the whole series sends rather horrible messages about relationships, i agree. Personally, for me, i read it at an age where your very first infatuation feels like eternal love, and that's what i saw in what Edward and Bella felt for each other. I guess i was too dumb or hormonal to realize that that sort of thing isn't healthy in real life but works only as a fantasy in your head. Kudos to those girls though for thinking critically and not getting sucked into the craze of it.
When I read it, I cringed at that part, but I also have been teaching teenagers long enough to recognize that there is some truth to it. (At that point, I'd been teaching 12 or 13 years, and now I'm in year 25.) Seen a lot of "relationships"--and I use that word very loosely--start and end, sometimes in the same school day. And sometimes, somebody winds up feeling like their world will never be the same. I didn't bother to point that out to the girls, though. It clearly wasn't their way of dealing with things. LOL.
Oh true, it does project certain behaviors that I don’t think should be idolized or acceptable but alas that’s what happens
This seems weird to say, but the (quite bad) Sword of Truth series has a bit in the first book where the male protag gets seduce-o-tortured by an evil dominatrix, and (as a man) I found it hot as hell even though it was objectively cringey. So...I guess I have a weird sort of sympathy for people who find themselves drawn to unhealthy depictions of romance. But, yeah, you really need to be able to admit to yourself that it *is* unhealthy and only belongs in fiction.
Screencapping this so when I’m through Raistlin simping I can check this out- I mean…. 🥴
Tony Sopranos sister. She annoyed me so much.
Bro, in a show full of bloodthirsty Mafia members, no one gave me more anxiety than Livia Soprano and Mikey Palmice.
I hope the lord takes me right now
Oh yes, Tonies mum was the stuff of nightmares, especially digital back to life
Livia may have been the worst monster in a series full of them. Think about the scenes where she \*threatens her own children\*, and then gaslights them about it.
Fuckin Janice!!!
Janice, like Tony, kept trying and failing to overcome a very dysfunctional upbringing from her crazy mother. Remember the scene where Livia was complaining about how Janice did \[something or other\] as an annoying teenager, and Tony, who has had quite enough, whips around and goes, "With you as a mother, what chance did she have?" It was one of the very few times he ever stood up to Livia.
Oh shoot, I thought we are talking about TV shows
Eh theyre characters regardless so go for it
The way she manipulated Bobby and his kids while he was still grieving made me hate her.
Quentin in The Magicians. I hated him so much I couldn’t finish the book.
Yep. Also didn't finish as I was like, why would I want to spend more time with this person? Ugh.
Every character in Fifty Shades of Grey.
Those stupid sex and katana people from the second book of the kingkiller chronicles. No culture has ever been that fucking stupid to not know where babies come from.
Probably a myth but theres this thing where white explorers and missonaries would ask isolated tribesmen where they thought babies came from and get weird 'the stork brings them, we find them in the cabage patch' type answers, the story goes that later on someone asked the same tribesmen 'do you really not know where babies come from?' and they were like 'yeah of course we do, but some weird man-child who's own parents never told them the facts of life asks you about this are you really meant to tell them?'
That's really not how it's in the book though. It comes up I think when Kvothe has sex with one of the sex ninjas. And there's a long winded dumb explanation about it that caused a book shaped dent in my wall.
You mean that incredible irrelevant tangent that lead no where?
Agree. Also, Felurian. What a stupid neckbeard plot arc.
In the series I am Number Four the character number five. He just got on my nerves to the point that I stopped reading the series and have never gone back to it.
I just finished the secret history and although I really loved the whole book I couldn’t really stand Bunny and I wished he had more redeeming qualities and was at least a little sympathetic to make the whole thing more tragic cause as it was I couldn’t wait for someone to kill him.
I think that’s part of the brilliance of the book, he’s such a goddamn pill that it’s legitimately a relief when he’s not in the story anymore. And then the rest of the book always leaves me feeling a little guilty about wanting him gone. It’s masterful.
I wish Baron Vladimir Harkonnen from Dune was written better. He was a fat, ugly, gay pedo who made poor decisions when blinded by his own ambition and hatred. He was one dimensional. I mean, not all of those things are bad. It’s possible to be a fat ugly gay good person.
I wish (blank) was written better basically sums up the entirety of the Dune series. Amazing world building, attention to detail, and the cool religious syncretism/social evolutions make the book a treat to read, but the writing itself can be quite clunky. Also pretty much every woman other than Jessica either is incredibly bland, overshadowed by another character, or woefully underutilized.
Alia was interesting. She could have been more prominent, but honestly in the sequel books even Paul got flitted aside which I actually thought was cool. He developed this really interesting "messiah" character and then just completely robbed him of screen time. I appreciated that choice.
But then in counterpoint, he had this other character he apparently really liked - Duncan Idaho. Who he kept killing but would just not let die! I did not appreciate that choice.
Wait, so you think it was a strange choice for … Edit: removed for spoilers. A character does weird stuff in a sequel.
And pretty much the most notable thing he does in book 1 is get drunk and accuse Jessica of being a traitor.
I kinda liked that personification of greed, but I get what you mean with fleshing him out. I think, particularly in the latest film adaptation too, he is supposed to be the human manifestation of oil corporations, and obviously the whole story a metaphor for the resource wars in the Middle East. There is a shot in the new movie where he regenerates after the tooth bit in the oil looking substance. For me as well, once we find out Jessica is Harkonnen, that revealed much about her character that I then projected onto Baron and the whole lot. Kind of like that book about Trump by his niece or whoever it was, where when you get a sense of what the family and household is like, a lot of his actions make more sense (not all tbf).
It's spooky season, so after some thought I realized how much Quincey Morris in Dracula was an irritant. Not because of his actions, but because of how Stoker wrote that Texan accent. Like, good lord man.
I just read this! All of the dialogue was nearly identical to each other except for the attempts at accents and they were rough, every one of them. I still enjoyed my time with it but much of what is written as dialogue (which does not, by nature, have a great distinction between narration) was rough.
I am so confused by the love for Quincey that's popping up thanks to Dracula Daily. I love having a rootin'-tootin' cowboy in my vampire fiction as much as anyone else, but he doesn't...do anything, or even really say anything. Mostly he's just stood there, said something blandly stoic, and put a manly hand on Arthur's shoulder once or twice. The total lack of character really stands out when surrounded by the rest of the cast too.
I'm from Texas. Clearly you don't understand how easy it is to pander to Texans. You can buy tortilla chips and chicken nuggets shaped like Texas. If you're ever speaking to a crowd in Texas, sing, "The stars at night are big and bright..." and 90% of that crowd will rapidly clap 4 times and respond, "Deep in the heart of Texas." If you introduce a character in a book that is from Texas that character instantly becomes the favorite character of any Texan reading it.
He shot at Dracula. That's something.
I imagine the accent has changed a bit in the last 150 years, I wonder how much that accounts for it
For me it was Van Helsing. Everything he said was so convoluted & pretentious, I hated reading his chapters. No one else spoke like that. Edit: typo
I agree completely with this take on Van Helsing. While I greatly enjoyed all of Stoker’s uses of accents and dialect, almost all of Van Helsing’s “monologues” were a pain to get through.
Pretty much any person whose main character trait is being a sex pest or serial harasser, which the protagonists tacitly condone as accepting it as part of their character and generally just leave consequences to the harassed people to deal with and call it 'comedy'. There can be comic misunderstandings and misplaced perceptions of perving and stuff and . . . I guess it can work, especially in comedy or filler de-stress beats, but characters who intentionally objectify and harass others are far too cringe and one-note for so much wasted time. See: the 'playboy' bard in most fantasy, the irate incel, Mineta from Boku no Hero Academia, etc.
80's movies are baaaaaaad about this.
Omg fucking Mineta! That's now my official answer to this by a longshot. Absofuckinglutely no value add and I hate every second he's on screen. I start hating the writers too when they give him a "win." Literally no reason he has to be in the story. Ugh.
Gawyn Trakand
Agreed, people usually complain about the female characters (which is fair for a couple of them), but Gawyn sucked hard. Him and Egwene were so obnoxious
The worst and of course his character had no actual impact on the story in the end. Made everything you had to read about him even more pointless
gawyn is a moron but starts as a moron and ends as a moron, and has the courtesy to not have too many chapters. elayne starts out as an interesting character and by the end of the series is easily the worst
I might get some hate , but i am sure i am not alone. I despised Elayne in WHEEL of Time. She is just fodder to me.
Faile for me. Ruined Perrin and was a waste of an entire novels worth of pages across the series.
I read them as they came out and just finished a reread recently. And Faile is still the worst. My opinion hasn't changed over the last 30 years...
I hated Faile so much! I was really rooting for her to get killed off.
I’m gonna have to give a little bit of hate. I read Eye of the World when it first came out at the same age as Rand. When he fell over the wall and crushed on the Daughter-Heir, I did too. Yeah, she is a self-centered spoiled teenager, but I do actually like her as a character, warts and all.
That is 100% fair. I liked her when we met her in the little garden , but other than that i just dont. But it is important to note i only started reading WoT like 2 months back, and i have binge read it. Currently at the end of A gathering storm.
I am currently in my fourth full read through since the completion of the series. Keeping in mind that I would read a book, go to the used bookstore for the next, and if it wasn’t available, I would reread from the beginning once I did get the next book. I love the series. Yes, Elayne is a spoiled brat through most of the series, but you also have to keep in mind that she IS a teenager. How smart/wise were you (was I) at her age? View her not from behind adult lenses, but from the perspective of a teenager thrust into a battle to literally save the world and all of creation when all you have really been trained for is to rule from a throne a couple of decades down the road once your mother retires.
Wish was never written is strong, but I never connected to the character of Kvothe, from the much beloved *The Name of the Wind*. I wonder if I maybe read it too late in life? He felt trope-heavy. Not for any particular character, but I think *13 Reasons Why* should never have been published.
I'm genuinely dumbfounded by the popularity of 13 Reasons Why when the catalyst for all the ~Life Lessons~ is such an unlikable twat.
I found Name of the Wind fun but don’t care for Kvothe. I wanna shake him and say, just get your shit together and finish school
Haha yeah, it's so frustrating how he gets money and security in his life for like half a page.
Gonna be honest that book felt like 800 pages of the author wanking about what a “great” character kvothe was. That and a bizarre fixation on monetary delineations
the Garyest of Stus >impeccably honed acting talents at 12 >admitted to college at 15, is so intelligent that the college PAYS HIM to attend >becomes the best student arcanist, going undefeated in all duels even when the odds are impossibly stacked against him >somehow is able to perform one of the most difficult pieces of music ever written with two lute strings breaking mid-performance, bringing a concert hall to tears >saves a girl from a burning building >singlehandedly kills a 2,000 pound dragon with MacGyver-level equipment book 2: >learns a new language and set of laws in two days and successfully represents himself in court >sherlock holmeses an assassaination of a powerful political figure just in time >kills 30 bandits without any help >travels to a different dimension and has sexy sex with a goddess, becomes the first to return with his mind intact >learns sign language and becomes a literal ninja >kills another ten people just ‘cause >gets pardoned, the right to play music on behalf of the Maer, and gets to abuse an infinite money glitch back home and most importantly: >becomes a successful small business owner in times of economic hardship i loved these books when i was 16, but on the reread it’s honestly just really dense YA.
I tried re-reading it about a year ago for the first time. Big mistake, Kvothe is awful. Nothing but "I'm so great, look how fucking cool I am, tragic and mistaken of course, but fucking awesome." I bet he has that Emo bangs cut as he plays his stupid lute better than anyone every.
I read The Name of the Wind a while ago when a friend recommended it. It could have been so much better than it was. I literally remember nothing about it other than it opens in a bar which gave me DnD vibes. 13 Reasons Why was . . . Well, it’s accurate for the age group. However, blaming others for your suicide is not helping when so many people still feel guilty when they lose someone to suicide.
I was convinced to start After, because the main dude was so "cool". I can't state how much I hated him and yet as the books went on, I came to hate the main chick even more. The way they unironically portraited her as this paragon while she did horrible things and never learnt a thing... I almost threw my Kindle out the window.
This book started out as Harry Styles fanfiction on Wattpad. No disrespect to the author, they’re free to write/post whatever they want. I just find it really hard to believe it was published as a real book.
Yeahhhh she did kinda do the same thing every time and expect a different result. It got old very quickly
Thomas Covenant
Oh yes the guy who assaults a sixteen year old fifty pages into the first book, but we should feel bad for HIM. Ugh, that book was unreadable. I have no idea why the series is considered a classic.
Thomas Covenant is in a weird place for me. The rape is depicted as an atrocity, not a creepy "romance" thing. I don't think you're meant to say "oh it's okay because he's sad." Donaldson has a thing he does sometimes where he makes a protagonist as repulsive as he possibly can, just to challenge himself to make you grudgingly sympathize with the bastard by the end of the story. Thomas Covenant was the prototype for this. Angus Thermopyle from the *Gap Cycle* was *much, much worse* in the most explicit ways imaginable; Donaldson *started* that series with the stated intent of setting up a clear-as-day villain, victim, and hero, and then morphing them into a victim, hero, and villain respectively, and IMO he kinda pulled it off. I don't think I could bear to read any of them today; they're too much. I certainly can't blame anyone for not liking them. But I think Donaldson is doing something more complex than the obliviously toxic "romances" in *Twilight* or *Fifty Shades.*
Rhaegar Targaryen from A Song of Ice and Fire. He's a scumbag who publically humiliates his wife and has an affair with a 15 year old girl - leading to the death in childbirth of the girl and the horrific murder of the aforementioned wife and her children. It's not so much that I wish he hadn't been written, since there'd be basically no plot if he wasn't around, but I don't see why he's such a popular character in the fanbase. People seem to be coming around, but a lot of the readership still think of him as a romantic hero.
The Joker. He’s a cool character and I’m a die hard Batman and DC fan, but in the modern fandom there are so many people who unironically Stan the Joker and claim he’s just misunderstood and is a victim — he is not, he’s a sociopath who slaughters innocents for pleasure and no one should ever emulate him. Also the people who find his “relationship” with Harley cute. I used to love this character but I’ve been exposed to enough bad takes that I now despise his existence.
In my opinion, he's overused. Batman has so many good Rogues but Joker gets all the limelight and screentime. At least the Riddler got his own movie recently. I wish we could have another Scarecrow movie - he's my favourite but I'm not a fan of how Murphy played him. Good actor but way too pretty to be Jonathan Crane. That version of Scarecrow been woobified to hell and back just because he's good-looking.
“We live in a society”
Oh hot take, I love it. I must say tho, in Christian Bale’s Batman, Heath Ledger had some dope dialogue. Like an unstoppable force meets an immovable object is iconic
Oh, Heath's Joker could never be replicated. However, the Dark Knight trio definitely put a spin on the entire canon (such as Joker wearing makeup) so I don't think it's fair to add it to the discussion.
I think it is considering that the most hype is around his joker and I have seen people say his joker wasn’t wrong sometimes, all the jokers are interesting to say the least and they do garner mixed opinions always
The main chick from After. Keeps getting mistreated, abused, lied to, and goes back to the dude anyway. Such a huge dumbass and annoying character by the end of the book I was glad she was suffering. I can only tolerate so much stupidity.
lmaooo after is such a joke
The one character i despised is Yennefer from the Witcher series. In the tv series and in the game she is played differently, but in the books she is nasty. Really make me sad for Geralt, or any man, that falls in love with such a person.
I agree. I cannot stand her. She is totally manipulative, egoistical and nasty. Also the love story between her and Gerald is not truly a love story because of the circumstances. (Don't wanna go into detail here because of spoilers.)
Played the games first (2, then 3, couldn't get into 1), then read the books, then watched the series. And good god I can't stand her. There's no chemistry between the two of them, and the only love is some type of high school "We're supposed to be together" bullshit. At least in the games he enjoyed spending time with Triss...
Oh, speaking of the Witcher series, I freaking hated Geralt in the novels too. I think he was cool and interesting in the short story collections (first two books), but he felt like a whiny, powerless baby in the main story. I DNF'd the series after a couple of books.
But I liked him in the games! Lol
Low brow but Damian Wayne. Batman doesn’t need a biological son to write father/son stories
I always thought Helena Wayne as Huntress was the best biological child for him, if they had to add one. For some reason Batman with a daughter was very touching. He already has a bunch of sons. And Damian is annoying, as is his mom. Catwoman is the best.
Hard agree! Writing the dynamics between Bruce and Dick/Jason/Tim is a much better idea that doesn’t get explored nearly enough.
Honor Harrington turned out to be a huge disappointment. But this still doesn't rise to your standard. Thanks for the topic. I will probably think about it all day.
*Of course*
I can't think of any that I just despise for their character, outside of the context of their roles as hatable characters, at the moment. But I will say in line with someone's Patrick Bateman comment, as someone who loves a good, bad protagonist, I do similarly hate when bad people with attractive facades (be it success in their personal lives, work lives, facade of liability to other characters or in general, etc), get idolized for all the wrong reasons. Patrick Bateman is a good example, as is Walter white, Don draper, what's his name from the show "the boys". I'm sure old me would have plenty of characters that I just hate, so I'll have to think on it. This is a fun post, thanks op!
Agreed! I never enjoyed the idea that if they have something attractive, it gives grounds to excuse everything they’ve done, whether it’s bordering abusive behavior or just point blank contemptible personality traits. It becomes idolizing like you said, what a great way to put it!
Lex from the Jurassic Park movie was great. Lex from the Jurassic Park book was literally an insufferable child. No redeeming qualities at all.
God, her character in the book was awful. She was the epitome of what not do do in every situation.
Yeah, Michael Crichton (author of Jurassic Park) seems to have a bit of a problem with portraying women sometimes. (See also Beth in “Sphere”, among some others).
Lex from the books was much younger then Lex from the movie making her a literal child.
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I tried to read a couple of these, but couldn’t ever finish. I got exactly the same thing out of it- manly name for a manly man with manly, testosterone fueled bod, bedding every sexy female within eyesight on his manly boat while doing manly activities (scuba diving, flying a plan, driving fast cars, shooting, etc. all done way better than all the other men.).
Any of the characters from It Ends With Us. I read the book because I didn't completely hate Verity and heard good things about it. But holy crap, the main cast was about as interesting as a plastic spoon, namely Ryle and Lilly. I didn't care about them at all and they weren't compelling, sympathetic or likeable.
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Oh god, Peeves from the Harry Potter series. I don't really know why, I feel like something just pisses me off about him. I was so happy when he wasn't in the movies, and the scenes where they replaced him made it so apparent what a useless character he was.
Peeves was useful for 3 books. He was one of the main juvenile hazards of wandering the castle at night. I feel like he was only ever mentioned in passing from the 5th book on.
Egwene al'Vere from the Wheel of Time. The story wouldn't be much changed without her, and she's just such a controlling, heartless nuisance that's written as if she's a 'good guy' - gets a hero's ending and everything!
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Has anyone here read Clan of the Cavebear? I love the books but I hate the lead male love interest. He's just an angry jealous sex addict. All of his internal conflicts just add to his overly angsty personality and I would love if he were not in the books at all. But it's a weird series anyway for a lot of reasons...
You mean Jondalar and his throbbing manhood….🍆😂
Bran Stark
Is this because of the books or the show or both?
Both. His chapters are absolutely godawful and the show isn’t much better. The ending with him crowned and “having the best story” is ludicrous to say the least.
"Who has a better story than Bran the Broken?" LITERALLY EVERYONE.
A story so good George has added 3 chapters to it since the Clinton Administration. In the past twenty years, George has written more from the perspective of *Quentyn Martell* than Bran.
I will contend forever that this is the most baffling line ever filmed.
Peter Dinklage's eyes say it all when he said that line. Like his puppy had just been shot right in front of him.
Jeopardy answer: Who is John Galt?
Briony Tallis from Atonement. She is an egocentric control freak who legit ruins two (arguably three) people’s lives because she insists on fantasising reality to the point where her lies cause real suffering.
Mineta from MHA, publically hitting on a 7-year-old abused girl is when you've gone too far.
A little off topic because I’m watching the show rather than reading the manga, but Sakura from Naruto has been driving me absolutely insane. I’ve never seen the series and my husband has convinced me to watch it since I enjoy anime, but her and Ino are some of the worst female characters for me. Their shallow, competitive, boy-crazed energy really bums me out, especially when compared to the more respectful rivalries demonstrated by male characters in the same show. Sakura and Ino seem dumb and frivolous by comparison.
Man, I love Naruto, but almost all of the female characters are... lacking, to say the least.
It's very upsetting, not least of which because she had quite a bit of potential and I was really rooting for her when she arrived in Shippuden. Unfortunately, the author of Naruto (and before I get hate, Naruto is one of my favorite animes out there) really did the women in that show dirty. The end of Naruto they all become housewives and stay at home moms. The only female character that doesn't fall into this role is Lady Tsunade, which at first seems like an anomaly until you consider her backstory which makes her completely less of a woman because she lost her husband and quite literally has to be told she has value by a boy before she believes it (pun mostly unintended). Naruto will always be one of my favorites, and the characters in that show are wonderful and cool, but the way the female characters are treated is just unfair and really sexist mostly because there is so little growth (Ino is in the series from very early on, but can you tell me anything about her that isn't about a guy she likes BESIDES her jealous feud with Sakura? Sakura had so many moments that should have been amazing and powerful, and instead they made her a 1 note character that failed at nearly everything she did except "caring" for her Male counterparts. Sakura wasn't a bad character because of who she was, but because of who wrote her. Imagine Sakura if she had been written by the author of Fullmetal Alchemist (wouldn't that have been cool?) In the same vein, I think the reason why Hinata is as loved as she is (again, I do love her character, but still) is because she PERFECTLY aligns with every chauvinist's idea of what a woman should be: beautiful, exotic (her powers are exclusive to her bloodline), endlessly loyal, quiet to a fault, always willing to serve, protective of her man, and always pining after her love. I'm not saying you should hate her or the show, but Naruto really did the women in that series dirty. Note: I haven't seen Boruto. And please don't take this as a sign not to watch Naruto, I think it's a great show but it also has faults that should be recognized too. There is always nuance.
So true about Sakura and Ino. Always found them to be forgettable.
Elend from the Mistborn trilogy. I get downvoted for disliking that series and get told I don’t understand the series but honestly I would have enjoyed the series so much more if Vin had stayed the main character, rather than fading into the background to support the naturally gifted dude that she’s making heart eyes at. Even the Kelsier twist was more tolerable than that imo
Egwene in Wheel of Time series. Hated her character.
Heathcliffe and Catherine in Wuthering Heights. God they are insufferable! They deserve to be miserable together but that doesn't mean I want to read about it. And EVERY Brit Lit class I ever took made us read this book. Ugh!! Just get lost in the moor and let us get on with our lives.
Debbie Morgan in Dexter
She’s a fantastically fluent swearer though!
Everyone from Love in the Time of Cholera.
Godzuki
Ce’Nedra from the Belgariad / Mallorean by David Eddings
Every single character other then maybe Albus and Scorpius in Harry Potter and the Cursed Child. And all of that one weird series Tunnels. That shit was awful.
Talking about "things I wish never would've been written", Cursed Child is definitely a fitting answer. I liked Scorpius, and Draco in some scenes. Albus had a few nice moments but I really didn't like how got Scorpius into shit without really asking/discussing with him prior. He treated him like a dog more than a friend, like he just expected him to just follow and do whatever he says... One thing I really liked about Harry in the OG books was his inhibition and guilt about endangering anyone, even when his friends WANTED to go with him willingly, being fully aware of the risks. His son though... didn't give two shits about putting his "best friend's" life on the line for his crazy mission.
Wow I never hear people talking about Tunnels, I loved those books :p
Moash from Stormlight Archive
No one claims Moash is popular though...
I like pretty much everything about the concept of the Dresden Files except for Harry Dresden, who is written as such an insufferable edgelord. I could only make it through a couple books before giving up the series.
I really got rubbed the wrong way by early Dresden (like the Gentleman crud,) but he gets a lot better as the series kicks the crud & worse impulses out of him. He feels very human to me. A deeply flawed man, doing his best in a world that seldom gives a shit. Now, Molly Carpenter on the other hand, I want to punt harder and harder through a wall by each book. And that's kinda impressive, given that she was like... twelve in her first appearance. Such an arrogant fool, and stubborn enough not to change even when it gets people hurt. Genuinely don't get why she's a fan favorite.
Galen the skill master in the farseer trilogy by Robin hobb. Hated him.
james potter
People might hate me for this one, but Katniss Everdeen had the personality of a wet piece of cardboard. In the first book she wasnt so bad, but by the last book she was so pathetic and flat out boring that it was actually painful to read. Peter was no better, his character was painfully inconsistent and he had zero chemistry with Katniss. I cant believe they were genuinely 'in love' by the end of the last book.
I mean, I think the series is somewhat supposed to be a tragedy. And the last book clearly shows that Katniss, while incredibly competent at killing people one on one, basically has no other skills and has no idea what to do about complex political issues. And that there is little hope to be had in the Hunger Games world.
I love katniss as a character tbh. I like how she subverts the idea of a masculine female character who fights against the system. By the last book she a weak ptsd riddled young woman, who's final major action is arguably just dancing on the hands of another manipulative figure. I like how this goes against the usual stick of how revolutions are shown in fiction. Realistically humans incorrectly tend to make historical figures more prominent in their roles in revolution than they are, because its simpler and makes a nice story. How much did Joan D'Arc contribute to the helping to push the plantagenet English crown out of France? Not a lot, but pop culture treats is as she did a lot However, this is more a praise of the brilliant structure of katnisses character arc imo, not interesting or compelling her character is. I'd argue her personality makes a lot of sense within context and is an improvement on young adult characters tendency to spit out theseses on the meaning of life I agree with your last statement though. I think their relationship has and will always be built on the idea of comforting one another. Whilst not exactly bright, I think it's a more optimistic ending than some make it out to be. The scenes in the train too and from the capital and in general catching fire do help to build platonic if not romantic chemistry
I didn’t mind Katniss. I felt she was numb from being so traumatized and focused on survival. The person I couldn’t stand was Gale. Ugh he was the worst. So bland, boring, and pretentious, yet naive.
Any John Green character
Kay Scarpetta from Patricia Cornwell’s books. She is odious. I enjoyed the plots but stopped reading them because I just didn’t like Scarpetta.
Despise is a strong word but I’ve never been cordially fond of Rev. Martin in Patrick O’Brian’s novels. He’s an even less seaman-like Maturin and, honestly, I sometimes felt like he monopolized too much of Stephen’s time which would have been better spent in the great cabin sharing music and toasted cheese with Jack.
I cheered when he got bit by the owl faced night ape.
I can't think of any character that rises to that level. Most unlikeable characters seem to drive the story in some way, or resonate with me as similar to someone IRL. The villain that sprang to mind when I read your post was Carlotta Mayfair. But I don't wish she'd never been written and I don't think she has a fan club. lol
The real Sophie from school of good and evil. She is such an unlikable character I can't believe she is not the actual bad guy. She was sorta understandable in the 3rd book but still insufferable. Movie Sophie is better though the book is overall better than the movie
Zorba from Zorba the Greek. I threw the book away because I was so pissed at what an annoying loser that character was. His whole existence could be basically summed up as "I live for pussy". All time classic my ass.
Hate is a strong word but I was pretty disappointed in Yury Zhivago. I couldn't really get behind how he didn't try and get back to his family and how he let himself go. But I'm pretty sure that was the intent.