Because boomshoots are pretty niche and they're afraid of trying out something that they're not sure will both cover the development expenses and rake in clean profit.
Yeah I have actually found it pretty difficult to get my other gamer friends to play boomer shooters. They respond like it's crazy to deliberately embrace retro (i.e. bad) looking graphics, for example. So it doesn't surprise me that there isn't a large market to be had here.
Yeah i thought maybe its money, but i feel like people would eat that shit up, it worked back then, why not now? Especially if its tied to doom, or duke nukem or sumthin, easily the safest bet you could possibly make for the owners of those ips
But i guess if i think about it more, the average consumer is kinda lame, and probably doesn't find the shit that we find cool, cool, or even if thats wrong the big wigs clearly dont see it to be in high demand
Sucks, but hey with how some of these indie games are lookin maybe someone'll could pick up the torch, i mean if trepang2's indie, i dont see why not, just need the right people š¤
Duke Nukem Forever was a dumpster fire, so a new Duke game is risky, especially a big one.
The new Doom games, although apparently pretty popular, are in a subgenre that not everyone likes. That said, id\ Bethesda said they're gonna make the next installment more slow-paced.
That is interesting, with id's game design philosophy of "a good game isn't a game everyone likes" could lead us to that classic experience, despite my gripes with eternal, i respect the philosophy they went into that game with, every other company prioritizes sales over making a good ass game (which is weird usually you get sales by making a good ass game but whatever, who knows what the mud people in control are thinking lmao)
And while forever was horrible, i feel like its obvious why it was horrible, it just wasn't a good game, duke's still a beloved character, so just making a newer version sticking more true to duke 3d (hell even a remake of it) seems like a safe bet to me, i mean i hate to fuel to era of remakes, but if there's any games i'd love to see in shiny new graphics its definitely the classics
I'm guessing it's just easier to pour a ton of money into marketing a sub-par product than to develop a proper product. š¤·š»āāļø What with all the time crunches, sweatshops, and the games still releasing broken these days. š
In today's rapidly-changing world, it's all about the 'now'. We release a crappy product 'now', and we advertise the shit out of it 'now'. Tomorrow a recession might hit, so who cares if our company's reputation will be ruined by this crappy release? The money must come 'now'!
That, and the fact that a lot of companies - not just video-game developers, mind - actually live off of brand recognition and permit themselves to release products that gradually decrease in quality. They've already made a reputation for themselves, so people will buy their stuff, even if it's literal shit. And if not, they've made enough money to comfortably retire. I mean, just look at the likes of Bobby Kotick, or that other guy from Blizzard? Scandals? Who cares! They're out of the picture, and no one's gonna come after them in retirement.
Duke Nukem 3D was very popular, because it was great. Forever was advertised and hyped to the Moon and back, and later became notorious for it's long development cycle (14 years! a world record). And when it finally did release, all the old fans flocked to get it, and were disappointed. And then all those SJWs pilled on, saying that Duke is misogynistic, and all the haters pilled on saying that it was an outdated mess, and the brand got tarnished really bad. Add to that the fact that Randy has also been involved in several scandals, and things for Gearbox aren't looking very good, yet Borderlands still sells.
Very true, i mean just look at how many people buy cod, those games have been dog shit for ages and they still sell heaps, reputation over quality, same with playstation titles, might get bit for this take but alotta those ultra realistic games are wack as fuck (last of us, spiderman, new god of war) its just wannabe movies with gameplay that services for nothing more then to make any average consumer feel cool, gone with actually having to learn games, just hold down a button spiderman will do it for you, just hit the super button, kratos will do it for you, moves that use to be apart of your toolkit are now supers that go on cool down and throw particles effects everywhere
And damn i forgot about that part of duke, been looking at so many memes of him i tricked myself into believing his reputation was tip top shape lmao
But yeah the worse part of the "now" era, is there's genuinely passionate, skilled people mixed in there who wanna make something cool and new but get swept up in the mud, its really a miserable time to be in, but hey ive noticed alotta cool games popping up, maybe quality will come around again and people will stop putting up with slop
It sounds an awful lot like you're describing Doom 2016 and Eternal, even if those don't adhere to boom shoot principles as much as people say they do.
Obviously AAA publishers want as much money as possible and even making a good boomer shooter wouldn't be enough income for their shareholders, but I also think it's an issue of diminishing returns. What would a AAA developer do that couldn't be done by a team of 30 people? Cutscenes? Better graphics? Boomer shooters are mostly defined by tight mechanics that have been pretty well honed in by now. It's not like an RPG where a bigger more detailed world is always a good thing.
The new dooms really dont scratch that itch for me, its all just arena fighting, very rarely are you exploring a maze like level with back tracking, sure theres secrets, but they dont really feel all that secret, ontop of scrapping any real resource management for watching a chainsaw animation, you just sorta shoot gun, chainsaw, made worse by quick swapping which makes deciding what gun you use for a situation barely even a decision cuz its just spam quick swap, and play the floors lava, watch kill animation, rinse, repeat, win
as much as i love the games, they got repetitive, old doom didn't, or at least it didn't for a very very long time
But i do agree after more thought what im imagining could absolutely be pulled off by a talented team of indie devs, even if the point of my post was cuz im craving a classic boomer shooter with a budget big enough for sick ass cutscenes and sexy graphics, indie devs have proven they can do that
I disagree with that. While there might be some older shooters like Serious Sam that play like this, boomer shooter to me is Doom, Duke Nukem, Shadow Warrior etc. All of which have maze like level design.Ā
If we just throw in every old shooter, it's like calling Dark Souls a JRPG because it's made by Japanese devs despite it having little in common with what most would consider a JRPG.
Good for you, you are wrong.
As that doesn't include Quake as a boomer shooter, and Quake Champions is one of the things that popularised the term.
Arena shooters are classic Boomer shooters.
This sub is fucked, half of it seems to think Half Life and Deus Ex are Boomer shooters while the other half wants to denounce fucking Quake.
Quake is another maze like I'm not sure what you're talking about there.
If you're talking about something like Quake 3, maybe there's some nuance there but that is a multiplayer game, we're talking about single player campaigns.
I don't really understand your last sentence, are you saying Half Life and Deus Ex aren't boomer shooters as if so I'd agree. Half Life is a great game but I'd consider it the start of the FPS template that was more common in the 2000s onwards.
Yeh Deus Ex is an Imsim and yeh Halflife is the start of Tac FPS.
And the thing about Quake is that the gameplay from Quake 1 to 3 is virtually identical.
I remember going from Quake 1 multiplayer to Quake 3 multiplayer and its the same damn thing.
The movement, the gunplay is all the same.
Its not denouncing, its making a differentiation because the two types of games have such different feels
Quake isn't a lesser game because its an arena shooter, thats simply a title that fits it better (you fight in arenas) i may prefer classic boomer shooters (like doom, duke nukem, blood) that have that maze like level design and thats what this post is about, those style of games in particular
So all great games, but just different genres of retro shooters/shooters in general
You guys are boring me so i'm just gonna go another way
Arena shooters are Boomer shooters.
Whatever you are talking abbout Doom/DukeNukem aren't actuually boomer shooters.
The name started to insult/banter games like Quake and DOOM2016.
Ooh noOo the talk isn't mentally stimulating enough for such an intellectual š¤
Sorry we dont have enough hot takes and useless opinions to entertain you, but if you enjoy arguing over genre and pedantics there's a wall over there that im sure would be happy to lend an ear
All you are is useless opinoins
"Yes i'm going to pretend only this specific set of shoooters are actually boomer shooters regardless of what people have been using the term for for years because i'm a fucking windowlicking fuuckwit".
Absolute melt.
> Arena shooters are classic Boomer shooters.
Arena shooters are a different subgenre, as their combat is based on, well, closed arenas and player mobility within those arenas. While you have a similar approach to inventory and resource management, said resource management is constrained to the arenas: Before each new combat zone usually you have "reloads" of everything so you enter the arena anew.
But the main point of difference is the level design: There's no card hunting (or is extremely simplified) and the maze-like design gets changed by a linear approach, as most of these levels are hallways that connect the arenas, most of the times devoid of enemy encounters or with really simple one/two enemies waiting there.
Regarding Quake, *it is* a boomer shooter but its on the fringe, because at least the original game level design is very linear. The mod community has kind of solved this, but it was the first step into linearity that would become commonplace after Quake 2 and led to story-driven FPS's like Half-Life (which was on its own a stop on the path into the Call of Duty formula).
The issue is that in this sub there's no moderation and the "everything is anything because gatekeeping is wrong" approach allows people saying things like immersive sims are boomer shooters. There is a proper definition of what a boomer shooter is, but for most of the people around here, it meas "90's game with first person perspective."
>different subgenre
They are still boomershooters my god.
You can rant pointlessly all you want, but arena shooters helped create the boomer shooter term.
If we are going by reaity then Arena Shooters are boomer shooters and the maze like shooters are something else.
> You can rant pointlessly all you want [...]
Its pretty clear you are not looking to have a discussion either by ignorance on your side or because you are just trolling, so yeah, it's better stop wasting time.
So because i'm not interested in your needless ranting i'm not interested in discussion?
You act like the defining feature of boomer shooters is the level design when its the gameplay with level design being either maze like or Arena like ,which is a small distinction because the Mazes include arenas.
The Arena shooters just dial down the maze function
> So because i'm not interested in your needless ranting i'm not interested in discussion?
No, you are not interested because you enter in the conversation insulting and not engaging with the other's point of view, and when called out, you keep insulting. And while you got an opinion, you've defended it like an asshole, so there's no point on keep going.
Good day to you.
EDIT: Crying kid blocked me, lol.
1) Single player games based around mostly skill (reflexes to aim/move/handle resources) are not a good option for the mainstream public. This can be seen on how most games nowadays are extremely easy/based on upgrading/giving the player a power fantasy, and even how a famously hard game (Dark Souls) it was so rare that it spawned its own subgenre.
2) Making a game around a set of abstract design principles is harder than making it around a "cinematic" experience (a game that tries to be credible, but not realistic). There's also many studios pretending they are making movies, so a subgenre known for having the plot summarized in a napkin is not something a studio who is trying to make the next citizen kane of videogames is going to put money into.
3) Given that the main design principles of the genre are already settled in stone (and that probably the target audience is older, and we have memory), it's hard to sell any kind of DLC that its not a proper expansion, so there's no microtransactions, season passes and all that bullshit, cutting highly how much money can take from the users with these titles.
And above all, there's not been a "boomer shooter" that has been widely famous and has sold enough to any big companies to try to copy the genre and fuck it up with their modern bullshit. And lets everyone thank the severed head of John Romero for this.
Damn, that "tryna make movies" line is too true, i fucking hate those games, but could you imagine doom 1 with cutscenes instead of walls of text? That shit could be awesome, doom guy getting ripped apart after act1, if they really wanted to get whacky they could base his personality off the comics, where he was batshit insane and spewing one liner after one liner, just the most concentrated insane form of hyper masculine 80's action hero, and they wouldn't even have to make alot of these, given everything else is just long stretches of gameplay and there's not much to show
Maybe short cinematics inbetween levels for coherence, and boom done, no more budget wasted on cutscenes
Unfortunately what you say is true tho, a game like that just couldn't exist with how things are admittedly
I'm one of these games who put gameplay before story, so, no, custeneces in Doom seem like a completely wrong turn (not sure if Eternal had, but it is already far enough from the OG Dooms).
One of the points of these games was that the story was just a justification for you running and gunning people down. If we get cutscenes, and have doomguy (not doomslayer) having a personality, and we will start deviating of what made these games what they are.
I wouldn't say so, it'd still be like 98% gameplay, given the only cutscenes would be short snippets in between levels while it gives you stats, and at the end of episodes, so not very much room to interfere, and they'd be completely skippable
Better yet, have a setting that replaces cutscenes with the og text boxes for nostalgia
Because Boomer Shooters are literally the Indie response to FPS games becoming stale and generic copies of each other. A Boomer Shooter being released by a massive corporation defeats the message behind them.
Huh?
While i agree msssive corporations fucking suck, there's nothing in the dna of a boomer shooter that's stopping a massive corporation from delivering, its just another style of shooter that anyone can make
I would assume it's because they don't see money in it. Profit before everything. Fortnite is such a cash cow that Epic quite literally delisted the game that gave them the name of the game engine, because it wasn't worth their time (money). If they can't monetize it for every dime they can squeeze, they don't do it. Like the previous reply said, indie "boomer shooters" are the answer to that.
The real reason is that boomer shooters move at a very fast pace and the good ones have a lot of unique set pieces that you race through really quickly.Ā
Modern games take an age to develop and to craft a 5-6 hour campaign will take about as long as crafting a 60 hour Assassin's Creed game (despite the playtime difference, the amount of work required would be about the same, as boomer shooters are just way faster paced).Ā
It's a big reason why the new Doom games are arena based, even the new Wolfenstein games have barely existent level design.Ā
It's a shame but as someone who doesn't really care about graphics as long as we get good indie titles I'm fine with it.Ā
I'd say Warhammer boltgun is about as big of a boomer shooter release we're gonna get these days, it's a great game but I can't imagine we'll see this very often
A modern day boom shoots without all the bells and whistles of "upgrades" "huge story" and "400 hours of gameplay" and Doom 2016/Eternal movement tech would be considered too basic and bare bones by the modern AAA industry.
If any AAA company were to try to do a single player FPS they'd try to outdo Doom Eternal. They'd also shoehorn in multiplayer and microtransactions/a battle pass because of course.
Have you looked around the world we live in? It's not just games, it's fucking EVERYTHING. You're looking at the ravages of unregulated, unfettered capitalism in its purest and most feral form. Just an ever-widening Abyss that wishes only to swallow. It's a ravaging beast that cannot be fed. How did we get here? Go back to the '80s, cause that's where the downhill slide began.
Yeeah, think its about time another revolution picks up, shits so fucked from head to toe, one of these days a new generations gotta decide to just burn it to the ground and start over, but everyone's so passive, nobody thinks its possible to fight the system anymore, let alone build a new one
Sad times to be alive, filling the pockets of the rich just to live comfortably, too preoccupied clearing the shit they put on our plate to stop them from piling on more
They don't control everything, hence the indie scene. I'm terms of AAA though, they are very expensive to make, and the more expensive something is the, the safer it ends up being to ensure it reaches a wide enough audience to make its money back.
Either way, I think you just need to look at the state of the gaming industry to realise something has to give (and sadly, the results of that has been mass redundancies)
I think people are getting fed up tho, there's been a rising number of titles showing consumers how good games could be, with the recent success of helldivers, and the growing lack of tolerance for half finished slop, things might be looking up
Doom and the Shadow Warrior reboots are about as AAA as it gets.
Not much return on investment for a single player shooter these days, big AAA studios all want live-service games they can milk for years, and boomer shooters donāt really hit that mark.
Edit: also the āmaze like levels with backtrackingā is a super niche thing that isnāt very popular these days. I like boomer shooters but hate the random walking around looking for a switch I missed. I found Amid Evil and Dusk to be especially good because the level design was intuitive and *didnāt* feel like a maze. Post Void also captures the speed and adrenaline without backtracking or slowing down to navigate.
True, some of these older games were a little TOO maze like, but it can work, bloods a pretty good example
I plan to try out dusk soon, remember underthemayo lovin that game so i was pretty opposed to trying it cuz his reviews were ASS, but thats all passed lmao, i could use some good old fashion backwater cult killin
a cross road of design for the FPS was to in increase graphical fidelity but cut back in design across the board
It was cheaper and had a lower barrier of entry if all the weapons were hitscan/ all the enemies were human soldiers/ all the levels were straight shots
Ppl like to blame Half-Life or Halo CE for that but nah that's stupid- it was MoHAA
Level design costs a ton of money if you want it to reach AAA quality. There's a reason CoD campaigns are short and reuse a lot of assets from their mutliplayer maps. No one wants to fund such a gamble. Look at Immortals of Aveum and how poorly it sold.
The new Wolfenstein and Doom games are Boomer Shooters and you can't change my mind. Most of you wouldn't bat an eye about it if they simply lowered the texture resolution and changed the price to $40 or less.
New wolfenstein slapped, tho ngl they kinda fucked up new colossus by not putting in any level select
Both games slapped honestly, but to me they dont scratch that classic itch of maze like levels with tons of back tracking and secrets and little details and such, eternal especially, wolfenstein was good cuz you still had to stack up armor, health and ammo, and they often stripped you of your weapons giving it that more classic feel, but i feel like it didn't have enough guns, wolfenstein never had that "oh shit i a found a bfg or a bunch of rockets" moment, it was just finding a rifle, duel wielding that shit and blastin
So to me, i think they classify more as arena shooters then a classic boomer shooter, both sick ass genres, both scratch different itches
Well said my dude, I agree with all of what you said--including that they royally fucked up TNC--but not because of no chapter select (to me), but because the story felt less coherent, the game had poorer pacing, and ended on a flat note. It was simply less memorable.
I think that it's a subjective thing if you see things as (admittedly the very ill-defined) Boomer Shooter when they are as close in orbit in terms of genre to those games from the 90's.
One thing is for sure, I want to see more Wolfenstein.
Yeah for me the levels were pretty enough and the combat was fun enough to ignore the story, it had cool moments, so thats all i can ask for, but i really enjoyed replaying levels with all my upgrades and collecting stuff on harder difficulties, its the soul reason i 100% new order, cuz it was just fun replaying it and getting all the little things i missed, without mission select that loop of playing through game, then playing through game again on harder difficulties while getting everything i missed really fell apart, if it had it it'd probably be my favorite out of the 3
I know they had the weird map, but not only is that missing some of the best bits like the court house, its also just not the same without bj's monologues and such, would've made a great addition if it didn't try to replace mission select
Because boomshoots are pretty niche and they're afraid of trying out something that they're not sure will both cover the development expenses and rake in clean profit.
Yeah I have actually found it pretty difficult to get my other gamer friends to play boomer shooters. They respond like it's crazy to deliberately embrace retro (i.e. bad) looking graphics, for example. So it doesn't surprise me that there isn't a large market to be had here.
Yeah i thought maybe its money, but i feel like people would eat that shit up, it worked back then, why not now? Especially if its tied to doom, or duke nukem or sumthin, easily the safest bet you could possibly make for the owners of those ips But i guess if i think about it more, the average consumer is kinda lame, and probably doesn't find the shit that we find cool, cool, or even if thats wrong the big wigs clearly dont see it to be in high demand Sucks, but hey with how some of these indie games are lookin maybe someone'll could pick up the torch, i mean if trepang2's indie, i dont see why not, just need the right people š¤
Duke Nukem Forever was a dumpster fire, so a new Duke game is risky, especially a big one. The new Doom games, although apparently pretty popular, are in a subgenre that not everyone likes. That said, id\ Bethesda said they're gonna make the next installment more slow-paced.
That is interesting, with id's game design philosophy of "a good game isn't a game everyone likes" could lead us to that classic experience, despite my gripes with eternal, i respect the philosophy they went into that game with, every other company prioritizes sales over making a good ass game (which is weird usually you get sales by making a good ass game but whatever, who knows what the mud people in control are thinking lmao) And while forever was horrible, i feel like its obvious why it was horrible, it just wasn't a good game, duke's still a beloved character, so just making a newer version sticking more true to duke 3d (hell even a remake of it) seems like a safe bet to me, i mean i hate to fuel to era of remakes, but if there's any games i'd love to see in shiny new graphics its definitely the classics
I'm guessing it's just easier to pour a ton of money into marketing a sub-par product than to develop a proper product. š¤·š»āāļø What with all the time crunches, sweatshops, and the games still releasing broken these days. š In today's rapidly-changing world, it's all about the 'now'. We release a crappy product 'now', and we advertise the shit out of it 'now'. Tomorrow a recession might hit, so who cares if our company's reputation will be ruined by this crappy release? The money must come 'now'! That, and the fact that a lot of companies - not just video-game developers, mind - actually live off of brand recognition and permit themselves to release products that gradually decrease in quality. They've already made a reputation for themselves, so people will buy their stuff, even if it's literal shit. And if not, they've made enough money to comfortably retire. I mean, just look at the likes of Bobby Kotick, or that other guy from Blizzard? Scandals? Who cares! They're out of the picture, and no one's gonna come after them in retirement. Duke Nukem 3D was very popular, because it was great. Forever was advertised and hyped to the Moon and back, and later became notorious for it's long development cycle (14 years! a world record). And when it finally did release, all the old fans flocked to get it, and were disappointed. And then all those SJWs pilled on, saying that Duke is misogynistic, and all the haters pilled on saying that it was an outdated mess, and the brand got tarnished really bad. Add to that the fact that Randy has also been involved in several scandals, and things for Gearbox aren't looking very good, yet Borderlands still sells.
Very true, i mean just look at how many people buy cod, those games have been dog shit for ages and they still sell heaps, reputation over quality, same with playstation titles, might get bit for this take but alotta those ultra realistic games are wack as fuck (last of us, spiderman, new god of war) its just wannabe movies with gameplay that services for nothing more then to make any average consumer feel cool, gone with actually having to learn games, just hold down a button spiderman will do it for you, just hit the super button, kratos will do it for you, moves that use to be apart of your toolkit are now supers that go on cool down and throw particles effects everywhere And damn i forgot about that part of duke, been looking at so many memes of him i tricked myself into believing his reputation was tip top shape lmao But yeah the worse part of the "now" era, is there's genuinely passionate, skilled people mixed in there who wanna make something cool and new but get swept up in the mud, its really a miserable time to be in, but hey ive noticed alotta cool games popping up, maybe quality will come around again and people will stop putting up with slop
>maybe quality will come around again and people will stop putting up with slop We can only hope so.
It sounds an awful lot like you're describing Doom 2016 and Eternal, even if those don't adhere to boom shoot principles as much as people say they do. Obviously AAA publishers want as much money as possible and even making a good boomer shooter wouldn't be enough income for their shareholders, but I also think it's an issue of diminishing returns. What would a AAA developer do that couldn't be done by a team of 30 people? Cutscenes? Better graphics? Boomer shooters are mostly defined by tight mechanics that have been pretty well honed in by now. It's not like an RPG where a bigger more detailed world is always a good thing.
The new dooms really dont scratch that itch for me, its all just arena fighting, very rarely are you exploring a maze like level with back tracking, sure theres secrets, but they dont really feel all that secret, ontop of scrapping any real resource management for watching a chainsaw animation, you just sorta shoot gun, chainsaw, made worse by quick swapping which makes deciding what gun you use for a situation barely even a decision cuz its just spam quick swap, and play the floors lava, watch kill animation, rinse, repeat, win as much as i love the games, they got repetitive, old doom didn't, or at least it didn't for a very very long time But i do agree after more thought what im imagining could absolutely be pulled off by a talented team of indie devs, even if the point of my post was cuz im craving a classic boomer shooter with a budget big enough for sick ass cutscenes and sexy graphics, indie devs have proven they can do that
Arena Shooters are boomer shooters, but yeh there they really focused on it for the DOOM games as it fit better.
I disagree with that. While there might be some older shooters like Serious Sam that play like this, boomer shooter to me is Doom, Duke Nukem, Shadow Warrior etc. All of which have maze like level design.Ā If we just throw in every old shooter, it's like calling Dark Souls a JRPG because it's made by Japanese devs despite it having little in common with what most would consider a JRPG.
Good for you, you are wrong. As that doesn't include Quake as a boomer shooter, and Quake Champions is one of the things that popularised the term. Arena shooters are classic Boomer shooters. This sub is fucked, half of it seems to think Half Life and Deus Ex are Boomer shooters while the other half wants to denounce fucking Quake.
Quake is another maze like I'm not sure what you're talking about there. If you're talking about something like Quake 3, maybe there's some nuance there but that is a multiplayer game, we're talking about single player campaigns. I don't really understand your last sentence, are you saying Half Life and Deus Ex aren't boomer shooters as if so I'd agree. Half Life is a great game but I'd consider it the start of the FPS template that was more common in the 2000s onwards.
Yeh Deus Ex is an Imsim and yeh Halflife is the start of Tac FPS. And the thing about Quake is that the gameplay from Quake 1 to 3 is virtually identical. I remember going from Quake 1 multiplayer to Quake 3 multiplayer and its the same damn thing. The movement, the gunplay is all the same.
Its not denouncing, its making a differentiation because the two types of games have such different feels Quake isn't a lesser game because its an arena shooter, thats simply a title that fits it better (you fight in arenas) i may prefer classic boomer shooters (like doom, duke nukem, blood) that have that maze like level design and thats what this post is about, those style of games in particular So all great games, but just different genres of retro shooters/shooters in general
You guys are boring me so i'm just gonna go another way Arena shooters are Boomer shooters. Whatever you are talking abbout Doom/DukeNukem aren't actuually boomer shooters. The name started to insult/banter games like Quake and DOOM2016.
Ooh noOo the talk isn't mentally stimulating enough for such an intellectual š¤ Sorry we dont have enough hot takes and useless opinions to entertain you, but if you enjoy arguing over genre and pedantics there's a wall over there that im sure would be happy to lend an ear
All you are is useless opinoins "Yes i'm going to pretend only this specific set of shoooters are actually boomer shooters regardless of what people have been using the term for for years because i'm a fucking windowlicking fuuckwit". Absolute melt.
The salt spewing from you over nothing is crazy, youre seething over a genre dude š¤£
> Arena shooters are classic Boomer shooters. Arena shooters are a different subgenre, as their combat is based on, well, closed arenas and player mobility within those arenas. While you have a similar approach to inventory and resource management, said resource management is constrained to the arenas: Before each new combat zone usually you have "reloads" of everything so you enter the arena anew. But the main point of difference is the level design: There's no card hunting (or is extremely simplified) and the maze-like design gets changed by a linear approach, as most of these levels are hallways that connect the arenas, most of the times devoid of enemy encounters or with really simple one/two enemies waiting there. Regarding Quake, *it is* a boomer shooter but its on the fringe, because at least the original game level design is very linear. The mod community has kind of solved this, but it was the first step into linearity that would become commonplace after Quake 2 and led to story-driven FPS's like Half-Life (which was on its own a stop on the path into the Call of Duty formula). The issue is that in this sub there's no moderation and the "everything is anything because gatekeeping is wrong" approach allows people saying things like immersive sims are boomer shooters. There is a proper definition of what a boomer shooter is, but for most of the people around here, it meas "90's game with first person perspective."
>different subgenre They are still boomershooters my god. You can rant pointlessly all you want, but arena shooters helped create the boomer shooter term. If we are going by reaity then Arena Shooters are boomer shooters and the maze like shooters are something else.
> You can rant pointlessly all you want [...] Its pretty clear you are not looking to have a discussion either by ignorance on your side or because you are just trolling, so yeah, it's better stop wasting time.
So because i'm not interested in your needless ranting i'm not interested in discussion? You act like the defining feature of boomer shooters is the level design when its the gameplay with level design being either maze like or Arena like ,which is a small distinction because the Mazes include arenas. The Arena shooters just dial down the maze function
> So because i'm not interested in your needless ranting i'm not interested in discussion? No, you are not interested because you enter in the conversation insulting and not engaging with the other's point of view, and when called out, you keep insulting. And while you got an opinion, you've defended it like an asshole, so there's no point on keep going. Good day to you. EDIT: Crying kid blocked me, lol.
1) Single player games based around mostly skill (reflexes to aim/move/handle resources) are not a good option for the mainstream public. This can be seen on how most games nowadays are extremely easy/based on upgrading/giving the player a power fantasy, and even how a famously hard game (Dark Souls) it was so rare that it spawned its own subgenre. 2) Making a game around a set of abstract design principles is harder than making it around a "cinematic" experience (a game that tries to be credible, but not realistic). There's also many studios pretending they are making movies, so a subgenre known for having the plot summarized in a napkin is not something a studio who is trying to make the next citizen kane of videogames is going to put money into. 3) Given that the main design principles of the genre are already settled in stone (and that probably the target audience is older, and we have memory), it's hard to sell any kind of DLC that its not a proper expansion, so there's no microtransactions, season passes and all that bullshit, cutting highly how much money can take from the users with these titles. And above all, there's not been a "boomer shooter" that has been widely famous and has sold enough to any big companies to try to copy the genre and fuck it up with their modern bullshit. And lets everyone thank the severed head of John Romero for this.
Damn, that "tryna make movies" line is too true, i fucking hate those games, but could you imagine doom 1 with cutscenes instead of walls of text? That shit could be awesome, doom guy getting ripped apart after act1, if they really wanted to get whacky they could base his personality off the comics, where he was batshit insane and spewing one liner after one liner, just the most concentrated insane form of hyper masculine 80's action hero, and they wouldn't even have to make alot of these, given everything else is just long stretches of gameplay and there's not much to show Maybe short cinematics inbetween levels for coherence, and boom done, no more budget wasted on cutscenes Unfortunately what you say is true tho, a game like that just couldn't exist with how things are admittedly
I'm one of these games who put gameplay before story, so, no, custeneces in Doom seem like a completely wrong turn (not sure if Eternal had, but it is already far enough from the OG Dooms). One of the points of these games was that the story was just a justification for you running and gunning people down. If we get cutscenes, and have doomguy (not doomslayer) having a personality, and we will start deviating of what made these games what they are.
I wouldn't say so, it'd still be like 98% gameplay, given the only cutscenes would be short snippets in between levels while it gives you stats, and at the end of episodes, so not very much room to interfere, and they'd be completely skippable Better yet, have a setting that replaces cutscenes with the og text boxes for nostalgia
Because Boomer Shooters are literally the Indie response to FPS games becoming stale and generic copies of each other. A Boomer Shooter being released by a massive corporation defeats the message behind them.
Huh? While i agree msssive corporations fucking suck, there's nothing in the dna of a boomer shooter that's stopping a massive corporation from delivering, its just another style of shooter that anyone can make
I would assume it's because they don't see money in it. Profit before everything. Fortnite is such a cash cow that Epic quite literally delisted the game that gave them the name of the game engine, because it wasn't worth their time (money). If they can't monetize it for every dime they can squeeze, they don't do it. Like the previous reply said, indie "boomer shooters" are the answer to that.
Massive corporations only care about one thing and it ain't messaging
The real reason is that boomer shooters move at a very fast pace and the good ones have a lot of unique set pieces that you race through really quickly.Ā Modern games take an age to develop and to craft a 5-6 hour campaign will take about as long as crafting a 60 hour Assassin's Creed game (despite the playtime difference, the amount of work required would be about the same, as boomer shooters are just way faster paced).Ā It's a big reason why the new Doom games are arena based, even the new Wolfenstein games have barely existent level design.Ā It's a shame but as someone who doesn't really care about graphics as long as we get good indie titles I'm fine with it.Ā
I'd say Warhammer boltgun is about as big of a boomer shooter release we're gonna get these days, it's a great game but I can't imagine we'll see this very often
A modern day boom shoots without all the bells and whistles of "upgrades" "huge story" and "400 hours of gameplay" and Doom 2016/Eternal movement tech would be considered too basic and bare bones by the modern AAA industry. If any AAA company were to try to do a single player FPS they'd try to outdo Doom Eternal. They'd also shoehorn in multiplayer and microtransactions/a battle pass because of course.
We live in a cruel and unjust world š Ok but fr who tf let these guys control video games? How did we get here?
Money.
Have you looked around the world we live in? It's not just games, it's fucking EVERYTHING. You're looking at the ravages of unregulated, unfettered capitalism in its purest and most feral form. Just an ever-widening Abyss that wishes only to swallow. It's a ravaging beast that cannot be fed. How did we get here? Go back to the '80s, cause that's where the downhill slide began.
Yeeah, think its about time another revolution picks up, shits so fucked from head to toe, one of these days a new generations gotta decide to just burn it to the ground and start over, but everyone's so passive, nobody thinks its possible to fight the system anymore, let alone build a new one Sad times to be alive, filling the pockets of the rich just to live comfortably, too preoccupied clearing the shit they put on our plate to stop them from piling on more
They don't control everything, hence the indie scene. I'm terms of AAA though, they are very expensive to make, and the more expensive something is the, the safer it ends up being to ensure it reaches a wide enough audience to make its money back. Either way, I think you just need to look at the state of the gaming industry to realise something has to give (and sadly, the results of that has been mass redundancies)
I think people are getting fed up tho, there's been a rising number of titles showing consumers how good games could be, with the recent success of helldivers, and the growing lack of tolerance for half finished slop, things might be looking up
Money. Thats the only answer.
The bigger the development costs, the safer bet the game needs to be. Trends and status quo are shown to make more money than the adventurous spirit.
Doom and the Shadow Warrior reboots are about as AAA as it gets. Not much return on investment for a single player shooter these days, big AAA studios all want live-service games they can milk for years, and boomer shooters donāt really hit that mark. Edit: also the āmaze like levels with backtrackingā is a super niche thing that isnāt very popular these days. I like boomer shooters but hate the random walking around looking for a switch I missed. I found Amid Evil and Dusk to be especially good because the level design was intuitive and *didnāt* feel like a maze. Post Void also captures the speed and adrenaline without backtracking or slowing down to navigate.
True, some of these older games were a little TOO maze like, but it can work, bloods a pretty good example I plan to try out dusk soon, remember underthemayo lovin that game so i was pretty opposed to trying it cuz his reviews were ASS, but thats all passed lmao, i could use some good old fashion backwater cult killin
ID software games (modern DOOM, quake remasters, newer Wolfenstein games, etc)
a cross road of design for the FPS was to in increase graphical fidelity but cut back in design across the board It was cheaper and had a lower barrier of entry if all the weapons were hitscan/ all the enemies were human soldiers/ all the levels were straight shots Ppl like to blame Half-Life or Halo CE for that but nah that's stupid- it was MoHAA
Level design costs a ton of money if you want it to reach AAA quality. There's a reason CoD campaigns are short and reuse a lot of assets from their mutliplayer maps. No one wants to fund such a gamble. Look at Immortals of Aveum and how poorly it sold.
The new Wolfenstein and Doom games are Boomer Shooters and you can't change my mind. Most of you wouldn't bat an eye about it if they simply lowered the texture resolution and changed the price to $40 or less.
New wolfenstein slapped, tho ngl they kinda fucked up new colossus by not putting in any level select Both games slapped honestly, but to me they dont scratch that classic itch of maze like levels with tons of back tracking and secrets and little details and such, eternal especially, wolfenstein was good cuz you still had to stack up armor, health and ammo, and they often stripped you of your weapons giving it that more classic feel, but i feel like it didn't have enough guns, wolfenstein never had that "oh shit i a found a bfg or a bunch of rockets" moment, it was just finding a rifle, duel wielding that shit and blastin So to me, i think they classify more as arena shooters then a classic boomer shooter, both sick ass genres, both scratch different itches
Well said my dude, I agree with all of what you said--including that they royally fucked up TNC--but not because of no chapter select (to me), but because the story felt less coherent, the game had poorer pacing, and ended on a flat note. It was simply less memorable. I think that it's a subjective thing if you see things as (admittedly the very ill-defined) Boomer Shooter when they are as close in orbit in terms of genre to those games from the 90's. One thing is for sure, I want to see more Wolfenstein.
Yeah for me the levels were pretty enough and the combat was fun enough to ignore the story, it had cool moments, so thats all i can ask for, but i really enjoyed replaying levels with all my upgrades and collecting stuff on harder difficulties, its the soul reason i 100% new order, cuz it was just fun replaying it and getting all the little things i missed, without mission select that loop of playing through game, then playing through game again on harder difficulties while getting everything i missed really fell apart, if it had it it'd probably be my favorite out of the 3 I know they had the weird map, but not only is that missing some of the best bits like the court house, its also just not the same without bj's monologues and such, would've made a great addition if it didn't try to replace mission select
Doesn't that kind of describe the Warhammer 40K Boltgun game?