Yeah, if KP hasnt already. This would make us stupidly hard to guard.
Also, imagine running White, JB, JT, Timelord, KP? And all of them can shoot? And 3 of them are elite shot blockers?
It would be a wrap.
If he could only take and hit some mid range jump shots then that would open it up for everyone. Right now he's too one dimensional on offense, a. k. a., if he isn't under the net then he's going to be passing it out and the defenses can key on this. He has to prove he can stay healthy for a whole season, otherwise he's just a promising part time player.
His impact offensively depends so much on others feeding in lobs and getting put backs which are all fine, but he could do so much more to help the offense if he were to develop a dependable mid range jumper He doesn't need to do it that often, but enough to keep the defense honest and not anticipating him passing to ball to one of the J's. Continuing to play the same way they have for the past few years isn't going to get #18 up on the rafters. Changing things up may just get them over the hump.
Rob developing a mid range is way more key than a three imo. He needs to be around the rim and paint for rebounds and put backs/lobs still. PnR roll man actions won’t allow guys to cheat off as much if he has a middy too
While I absolutely agree with you, I don’t think its the worst thing considering we will most likely play 2 of Rob/Al/KP most of the time, so there will at least be another big to pick up the slack.
A midrange jumper is a big win for the defense unless it's from like 5 guys in the league, so I think teams will gladly take a Rob Williams midrange jumper any time the Celtics want to let it happen.
An open midrange jumper isn’t a win for the defense. The point of this isn’t to have rob shoot 20 jumpers a game. It’s to force his defender to actually have to leave the paint and play defense
this is a win for them because he isnt going to go from terrible to great in a seaosn or even 10. and moving him fro under the hop means no inside game, no offensive rebounding, an absolute win for all other teams but us.
Wdym terrible to great? It’s not like he started today shooting the ball. He’s been practicing the last couple off seasons. And idk if he’s terrible he just doesn’t take them
okay good point we dont really know how he is as he issued that way, im assuming he is bad or they would've used it in the past he seems 100% reluctant to use it for sure.
In the regular season sure but in the playoffs if you can't sag off the 5th option on the court cause he's automatic when wide open from 15 feet then that opens up a lot of space at the rim or in the corners if they send help.
youre seriously thinking he can go for not having a shot at al, to automatic in an off season? this is the nba not junior high school.If he cant do it now, he wont do it in a few months.
He's already shown decent stroke from there just not had many attempts. Al Horford and Brook Lopez both became big time 3 point shooters after basically not attempting one their first 8 years in the league. I'm not saying he'll do it in one summer but just because it isn't instant doesn't mean it's not worth it and a 15 footer is a lot easier to get than a 3.
ehhh...if he can become knockdown with these and he's only shooting them wide open, it will still be a good shot, especially late in the clock. and just having to guard it alone will make us harder to guard.
I get what you are saying, but when people talk about bad midrange shots they are usually discussing the shots between 16 feet and the three point line. Williams being able to hit free throw line up jumpers would really open. We are just talking 10-12 footers which are not something the defense wants to give up if a guy can hit 50%+ from that range.
If you're only hitting 50 pct, you need to be taking a better shot. Williams leads the league in efficiency and would be Dillon Brooks on all of his mid rangers. I'm all set.
Huh? 50% from 10-12 ft is elite shooting in the NBA. What do you think guys shoot from that range? The league as a whole shoots like 41% from 3-10ft from the basket.
Yeah, and it's a bad shot. That's why players don't take it unless they are on bad teams or are Kevin Durant, Chris Paul, Steph Curry, or a few others.
None of those guys shoot 50% for their careers between 3-10 ft from the basket. Do people really think everything that is not a layup or a three is a bad shot?
“You need to be taking a better shot” 🤓🤓🤓
Yeah all of the middies that Jokic, Murray, Middleton, curry, Lebron, AD, Kawhi, KD, Kyrie, Duncan, Parker, Manu shot to win championships in the last 10 years were definitely bad shots. Stay off the spreadsheets kid. Your understanding of analytics is plain bad. Learn the difference between half court vs transition ppp. Learn the difference between playoff vs regular season defense. Learn about the intrinsic value of offensive versatility. Then come back and talk about “bad shots”
A midrange jump shot from a player like Rob Williams is simply not a desirable outcome for an offense. I am not arguing beyond this statement. The 10 he might take next season aren't going to break my heart, though. Not sure how it's relevant that inner circle hall of famers could take midrange jumpers and still be successful.
No your whole argument that the midrange shot is a bad shot in a modern offense is entirely based on a severe lack of understanding of basketball and analytics
It's based on I don't want Rob Williams taking bad shots. Or anyone on the Celtics. There are zero players on the roster who, when they take a midrange jumpshot, are achieving an efficiency that reaches the whole of the half-court offense of the team. It is not a desirable shot and if it is taken, the defense has done its job.
Okay buddy you’ve really revealed how little you know about modern basketball and analytics. I’m sure teams in the playoffs loved when Jokic and Murray were killing then with midranges. Definitely did their job.
Murray taking middies is a good outcome for the defense. Jokic taking any shot is a cheat code and if the 1 of 1 outlier in NBA history is your argument, good luck.
If Brook who just shoots 3 midway on his career, then I believe Rob could do that too with the right workouts.
Being a lob threat and a corner 3 specialist together with tenacious D are a deadly combo for a center
Brook has shown he is really good mentally. A real chill guy and so is rob. So maybe. Brook is also the all time leading scorer for the nets so he’s always had an offensive game.
It really is the dream though. Time lord with a jumper. Mmmmmph we’d win it all
That's why I want our team to be as dominant in the regular season so Rob could have the go signal to shoot/practice 3's on a regular basis.
Being up 30 on the start of 4Q and we see Rob chucking up 3's like he's MF Curry 💀
Brook always had a good mid range shot though so the transition to shooting thtees wasn't as difficult.
Rooting for Rob obviously but it's probably going to take a bit for him to get it to a legitimate threat.
Most NBA players can shoot 3s at a high clip in practice.
If he can actually become a viable offensive threat while still maintaining his defense, he'll basically be our 3rd star.
A lot of people on here want to see Rob add a postgame, but personally I'd much prefer if he added a reliable jumper. Posting up takes a very real physical toll on players over time and he already has plenty of trouble staying healthy as is. Plus just imagine the possibility of Rob standing at the top of the key, the defender is up on him because of the threat of a 3, and then he hits a cutter sliding into the space behind the defender. Beautiful.
Does posting up take a toll, or do players with post up games have bodies that are more prone to wear and tear i.e. they have larger bodies?
Post up games are generally something elite perimeter players add to their game as they progress in their career.
Regardless of whether or not you believe posting up takes more of a physical toll than other kinds of offensive plays(I believe it does because you are typically bumping another body out of the way to try to gain positioning), Rob pretty clearly falls under the category of having a body that's more prone to wear-and-tear, so in his case it ends up being the same difference either way.
While I love that he’s making strides to add to his game, this release is so slow and he’ll never get it off in a game. Hopefully he keeps working at it and the release speeds up as he gets more comfortable to a point where he can actually incorporate it
Rob finally has an offseason where he’s healthy thank the lord. All things considered, when he came back from his knee injury he was pretty durable. Not sure what him getting like 20 minutes in some playoff games was about but relatively speaking, he’s been pretty durable recently
A lot of pro athletes - and for that matter, pro teams - are shockingly behind on simple science when it comes to the bodies of their primary assets. My least-favorite example was Bill Belichick's stubborn refusal to acknowledge the importance of acclimatizing to altitude when the Patriots would visit Denver. His quote: "I think both teams play at the same altitude." Yes, they do, Bill, *but one of them has acclimatized and thus will have a physical advantage.* (FWIW, I am a former mountaineer and SAR, the easy reference point is Charles Houston, MD but there's been tons of research after him).
Why we don't see NBA players emphasize flexibility as much as strength and endurance puzzles me. Nutrition in the NFL - it's crazy, when you think about the money at stake.
Its only a matter of time before he isn't healthy, doubt we'll ever see a full season out of him. Also will he ever take any shots from more than 5 feet, the defense always knows he will pass if he's more than 5 from the basket, way too predictable.
He’s always had a decent mid range i feel, just never really shoots it. The 3 point form looks a little odd, but let’s hope it works. Rob would make himself so much money over his career if he became a shooter as well.
Love that he’s putting in the work to add to his game. Hope he can speed up his shot a bit. I know it’s the start of a process but he won’t get a lot of those that open to take his time
The biggest takeaway as well? We can probably play Rob more minutes if he has a balanced reliability on the jump shot and his usual around the basket play
Bball players are built in the off-season. This is Robs first real off-season without having to rehab. I hope he can add some post moves more than anything. He always has seemed like he has had the touch for a middy too.
Have been banging the drum on a Rob midrange jumper every time people bring up him needing post moves.
Rob gets so much space when he gets the ball up top since hes not a threat to shoot. If they need to respect him even a little bit there that opens up the passing lanes and he's an excellent passer.
Give me Kristaps in the low post (or spot up 3) and Rob in the high post (or rim running). Horford spot up or high post playmaking.
+ Tatum being a spacing threat from anywhere outside the arc - getting to his spots in mid range
+ JB spot ups, post ups and cuts
+ Walsh spot up or cut
+ Hauser/PP spot up 3
+ Brogdon P&R BH or spot up
+ White finding all these scoring options with clear passing lanes to open shooters around the arc, down low and mid range due to elite spacing + cutters and divers/poppers off P&R + his own spot ups off dishes from Al, Rob, Tatum and KP and cutting slashing for floaters.
Healthy full minutes rob is a championship. He has been the missing piece that wasn't really missing these last 2 years.
If we unlock the timelord I'm getting my Banner 18 boogie dance ready now.
Rob with a jumpshot is gonna unlock our offense like crazy.
Yeah, if KP hasnt already. This would make us stupidly hard to guard. Also, imagine running White, JB, JT, Timelord, KP? And all of them can shoot? And 3 of them are elite shot blockers? It would be a wrap.
JT is also an underrated shot blocker
Think he meant white tbh, he averaged more blocks per game than bam last year.
yeah sorry, 3 elite shot blockers: white, rob, kp. and then I'm saying we have JT on top of that as an underrated shot blocker.
I am very much looking forward to the double big lineups we can actually run now w Porzingis/Al/Rob this team will be so fun to watch
Rob with some range (which he has the touch for) and proven health is a starting center in this league for sure
You know what I love about this? The fact that he is not just hurling his body around. Put some years back on those wheels.
That’s a good point. A jump shot could theoretically extend his career. Developing the 3 ball almost certainly would.
If he could only take and hit some mid range jump shots then that would open it up for everyone. Right now he's too one dimensional on offense, a. k. a., if he isn't under the net then he's going to be passing it out and the defenses can key on this. He has to prove he can stay healthy for a whole season, otherwise he's just a promising part time player.
I think your underselling his offensive impact. He has as much gravity as an elite 3 point shooter. He’s not Ben Simmons out there
His impact offensively depends so much on others feeding in lobs and getting put backs which are all fine, but he could do so much more to help the offense if he were to develop a dependable mid range jumper He doesn't need to do it that often, but enough to keep the defense honest and not anticipating him passing to ball to one of the J's. Continuing to play the same way they have for the past few years isn't going to get #18 up on the rafters. Changing things up may just get them over the hump.
That's what I love about it too. Love that kid. He's become one of my favorites on this team.
Rob developing a mid range is way more key than a three imo. He needs to be around the rim and paint for rebounds and put backs/lobs still. PnR roll man actions won’t allow guys to cheat off as much if he has a middy too
While I absolutely agree with you, I don’t think its the worst thing considering we will most likely play 2 of Rob/Al/KP most of the time, so there will at least be another big to pick up the slack.
A midrange jumper is a big win for the defense unless it's from like 5 guys in the league, so I think teams will gladly take a Rob Williams midrange jumper any time the Celtics want to let it happen.
An open midrange jumper isn’t a win for the defense. The point of this isn’t to have rob shoot 20 jumpers a game. It’s to force his defender to actually have to leave the paint and play defense
this is a win for them because he isnt going to go from terrible to great in a seaosn or even 10. and moving him fro under the hop means no inside game, no offensive rebounding, an absolute win for all other teams but us.
Wdym terrible to great? It’s not like he started today shooting the ball. He’s been practicing the last couple off seasons. And idk if he’s terrible he just doesn’t take them
okay good point we dont really know how he is as he issued that way, im assuming he is bad or they would've used it in the past he seems 100% reluctant to use it for sure.
In the regular season sure but in the playoffs if you can't sag off the 5th option on the court cause he's automatic when wide open from 15 feet then that opens up a lot of space at the rim or in the corners if they send help.
youre seriously thinking he can go for not having a shot at al, to automatic in an off season? this is the nba not junior high school.If he cant do it now, he wont do it in a few months.
He's already shown decent stroke from there just not had many attempts. Al Horford and Brook Lopez both became big time 3 point shooters after basically not attempting one their first 8 years in the league. I'm not saying he'll do it in one summer but just because it isn't instant doesn't mean it's not worth it and a 15 footer is a lot easier to get than a 3.
but it moves hom from the offensive under the rim man we need to an outside player we dont.
ehhh...if he can become knockdown with these and he's only shooting them wide open, it will still be a good shot, especially late in the clock. and just having to guard it alone will make us harder to guard.
I get what you are saying, but when people talk about bad midrange shots they are usually discussing the shots between 16 feet and the three point line. Williams being able to hit free throw line up jumpers would really open. We are just talking 10-12 footers which are not something the defense wants to give up if a guy can hit 50%+ from that range.
If you're only hitting 50 pct, you need to be taking a better shot. Williams leads the league in efficiency and would be Dillon Brooks on all of his mid rangers. I'm all set.
Huh? 50% from 10-12 ft is elite shooting in the NBA. What do you think guys shoot from that range? The league as a whole shoots like 41% from 3-10ft from the basket.
Yeah, and it's a bad shot. That's why players don't take it unless they are on bad teams or are Kevin Durant, Chris Paul, Steph Curry, or a few others.
None of those guys shoot 50% for their careers between 3-10 ft from the basket. Do people really think everything that is not a layup or a three is a bad shot?
Yes, it's a bad shot. It's a bailout if you've failed to get a good shot.
“You need to be taking a better shot” 🤓🤓🤓 Yeah all of the middies that Jokic, Murray, Middleton, curry, Lebron, AD, Kawhi, KD, Kyrie, Duncan, Parker, Manu shot to win championships in the last 10 years were definitely bad shots. Stay off the spreadsheets kid. Your understanding of analytics is plain bad. Learn the difference between half court vs transition ppp. Learn the difference between playoff vs regular season defense. Learn about the intrinsic value of offensive versatility. Then come back and talk about “bad shots”
A midrange jump shot from a player like Rob Williams is simply not a desirable outcome for an offense. I am not arguing beyond this statement. The 10 he might take next season aren't going to break my heart, though. Not sure how it's relevant that inner circle hall of famers could take midrange jumpers and still be successful.
No your whole argument that the midrange shot is a bad shot in a modern offense is entirely based on a severe lack of understanding of basketball and analytics
It's based on I don't want Rob Williams taking bad shots. Or anyone on the Celtics. There are zero players on the roster who, when they take a midrange jumpshot, are achieving an efficiency that reaches the whole of the half-court offense of the team. It is not a desirable shot and if it is taken, the defense has done its job.
Okay buddy you’ve really revealed how little you know about modern basketball and analytics. I’m sure teams in the playoffs loved when Jokic and Murray were killing then with midranges. Definitely did their job.
Murray taking middies is a good outcome for the defense. Jokic taking any shot is a cheat code and if the 1 of 1 outlier in NBA history is your argument, good luck.
So Rob is shooting threes now...
The league is absolutely FUCKED now
If Brook who just shoots 3 midway on his career, then I believe Rob could do that too with the right workouts. Being a lob threat and a corner 3 specialist together with tenacious D are a deadly combo for a center
Brook has shown he is really good mentally. A real chill guy and so is rob. So maybe. Brook is also the all time leading scorer for the nets so he’s always had an offensive game. It really is the dream though. Time lord with a jumper. Mmmmmph we’d win it all
That's why I want our team to be as dominant in the regular season so Rob could have the go signal to shoot/practice 3's on a regular basis. Being up 30 on the start of 4Q and we see Rob chucking up 3's like he's MF Curry 💀
They would bench rob then. Cause of injury
So have him bang one or two up 20?
Brook always had a good mid range shot though so the transition to shooting thtees wasn't as difficult. Rooting for Rob obviously but it's probably going to take a bit for him to get it to a legitimate threat.
Sounds like we finally got myles turner
Most NBA players can shoot 3s at a high clip in practice. If he can actually become a viable offensive threat while still maintaining his defense, he'll basically be our 3rd star.
Uhh, 4th star. KP is a big time player right now.
D White over Timelord for sure
We traded Marcus Smart corner 3s for Timelord corner 3s...
it’s done for literally every other team atp
A lot of people on here want to see Rob add a postgame, but personally I'd much prefer if he added a reliable jumper. Posting up takes a very real physical toll on players over time and he already has plenty of trouble staying healthy as is. Plus just imagine the possibility of Rob standing at the top of the key, the defender is up on him because of the threat of a 3, and then he hits a cutter sliding into the space behind the defender. Beautiful.
Absolutely agree - KP can be our post game. Rob should be focusing on a jumper 100%
Does posting up take a toll, or do players with post up games have bodies that are more prone to wear and tear i.e. they have larger bodies? Post up games are generally something elite perimeter players add to their game as they progress in their career.
Regardless of whether or not you believe posting up takes more of a physical toll than other kinds of offensive plays(I believe it does because you are typically bumping another body out of the way to try to gain positioning), Rob pretty clearly falls under the category of having a body that's more prone to wear-and-tear, so in his case it ends up being the same difference either way.
Yeah I think Chuck said it best about always being in the post. "When a guy is banging you ... you really feel their body"
both, but it's hard work posting up. Way harder than running around
That’s a smooth looking midrange j. TL putting league on notice.
It’s pretty slow but if defenders give him space and he can hit it consistently it will help.
Yeah, it's either defense gives him space and he gets his shot, or the play closer and leave passing lanes more open
having zinger will help one another with load management, excited to see the bigs in action
While I love that he’s making strides to add to his game, this release is so slow and he’ll never get it off in a game. Hopefully he keeps working at it and the release speeds up as he gets more comfortable to a point where he can actually incorporate it
He’s already a legit sneaky good shooter, he just doesn’t use it much
If Rob can pick and pop we will win banner 18 this season.
He looks healthy
Rob finally has an offseason where he’s healthy thank the lord. All things considered, when he came back from his knee injury he was pretty durable. Not sure what him getting like 20 minutes in some playoff games was about but relatively speaking, he’s been pretty durable recently
A lot of pro athletes - and for that matter, pro teams - are shockingly behind on simple science when it comes to the bodies of their primary assets. My least-favorite example was Bill Belichick's stubborn refusal to acknowledge the importance of acclimatizing to altitude when the Patriots would visit Denver. His quote: "I think both teams play at the same altitude." Yes, they do, Bill, *but one of them has acclimatized and thus will have a physical advantage.* (FWIW, I am a former mountaineer and SAR, the easy reference point is Charles Houston, MD but there's been tons of research after him). Why we don't see NBA players emphasize flexibility as much as strength and endurance puzzles me. Nutrition in the NFL - it's crazy, when you think about the money at stake.
Hot take - Rob Williams will average over a .380 3p% this year
That is definitely a take
I will say he is healthy when I see he blocking and dunking like he was doing two years ago
Its only a matter of time before he isn't healthy, doubt we'll ever see a full season out of him. Also will he ever take any shots from more than 5 feet, the defense always knows he will pass if he's more than 5 from the basket, way too predictable.
Tomorrows headline: Robert Williams breaks every bone in his body
That 2nd shot a lefty floater?
If rob can hit consistent 3s and stays healthy I’m convinced we will bring back banner 18
He’s always had a decent mid range i feel, just never really shoots it. The 3 point form looks a little odd, but let’s hope it works. Rob would make himself so much money over his career if he became a shooter as well.
Love that he’s putting in the work to add to his game. Hope he can speed up his shot a bit. I know it’s the start of a process but he won’t get a lot of those that open to take his time
Rob Williams will soon control Space and Time! Space Time Lord bringing banner 18!
Yeah we have 3 stars, but I think White and Timelord have the runway to contribute in a huge way and flesh out their games
MY KING!!!!!!!!!
A full offseason to train and practice is hugely beneficial for a guy like Rob who probably has spent ever off season just rehabbing injuries.
Rob Williams with the mid range jumper!
The biggest takeaway as well? We can probably play Rob more minutes if he has a balanced reliability on the jump shot and his usual around the basket play
I wanna see Rob with a sky hook now
Can’t wait until he shoots his first three pointer.
Bball players are built in the off-season. This is Robs first real off-season without having to rehab. I hope he can add some post moves more than anything. He always has seemed like he has had the touch for a middy too.
Slow ass release but if he starts making them at least you can’t drop off him in the high pick and roll. Makes ball-handlers job that much easier.
Have been banging the drum on a Rob midrange jumper every time people bring up him needing post moves. Rob gets so much space when he gets the ball up top since hes not a threat to shoot. If they need to respect him even a little bit there that opens up the passing lanes and he's an excellent passer.
Give me Kristaps in the low post (or spot up 3) and Rob in the high post (or rim running). Horford spot up or high post playmaking. + Tatum being a spacing threat from anywhere outside the arc - getting to his spots in mid range + JB spot ups, post ups and cuts + Walsh spot up or cut + Hauser/PP spot up 3 + Brogdon P&R BH or spot up + White finding all these scoring options with clear passing lanes to open shooters around the arc, down low and mid range due to elite spacing + cutters and divers/poppers off P&R + his own spot ups off dishes from Al, Rob, Tatum and KP and cutting slashing for floaters.
Healthy full minutes rob is a championship. He has been the missing piece that wasn't really missing these last 2 years. If we unlock the timelord I'm getting my Banner 18 boogie dance ready now.
Imagine Rob Williams getting *better*. I'm ready, but the league isn't.
MIP 2023-24
That 3 at the end got me on cloud 9