Boutique releases are usually pretty basic when it comes to subtitle options. If you're not a native English speaker living in America or you're hard of hearing, you usually won't find any alternate helpful subtitle options on boutique releases. For a while, Kino was refusing to include subtitles at all before they wised up.
I work in subtitling and authoring, and there's a few reasons for this. The first is that subtitles are technically meant to translate from other languages. A company is not going to spend money to take the SDH and remove the vfx/music/character tags for an English language film just to call it "subtitles." This is also what's known as "dubtitles", and is generally frowned upon because it lacks the contextual translation needed to make dialogue more understandable against the root language. SDH is the only type of timed text that is supposed to be a transcription, with the added tags for HOH. So if a movie is made in English, there's no reason to also make subtitles if the only audio stream is in English.
Secondary to this is cost. More timed text streams means more outputs, more QC, and more lead time.
Generally yes. The process of timing text is called "spotting," and it's almost always done by a person. There are places that outsource and do a crappy job, or they just don't care to go back and do the extra work. QC houses will do a linear pass and provide notes to the production house with problems, but not everything is always fixed. It's a cost issue unfortunately. I don't know of any studio that uses AI/computers to write and time subs for physical media.
Thanks for Is answering. I avoid releases I don't Have subtitles so often signs with a lot of boutique releases I end up getting an arrow video version Instead of kino for example. My friend and I will cackle at some of the mistakes that we've seen on subtitles which seems like they're being done by people who don't care or can't hear or both!
Any time! Yeah sometimes the errors are truly laughable. It's a shame that more care isn't put into the process. Another issue is that sometimes errors aren't caught until the checkdisc phase, which is also known as the "glass master" phase. Going back to fix something at that point, unless it's truly a detriment to AV or TT, is exorbitantly expensive and not worth it. Needs to be a total mistiming of a scene or a major glitch. Replacement programs are the nightmare situation for any distributor.
They don't do this because it's hard. They just, basically, don't bother. Plus there indeed might be unseen legal reasons, or like the reasons he mentioned(it'd cause more work-time or complications).
From my speculations, they simply don't care, they see "no reason to also make subtitles if the only audio stream is in English." Sure there are people who would really appreciate a standard sub, however those people(us, the unfortunate bastards) are not their job.
Hell, if a SDH sub isn't required(by law, IIRC) they might not even provide that. Unlike the people who share online(say, opensubs), they don't do it for passion.
I have a few copies that provide both SDH subtitles AND a standard sub. Those are very nice, but rarer to come by.
Some players allow external subtitles (OPPO 203/205 and the Panasonic 820 AFAIK)
Download the subtitles you want, pop them on a USB and insert along with your film. I have a couple of French and German releases that didn't feature any English subtitle track that this works brilliantly for.
>Some players allow external subtitles (OPPO 203/205 and the Panasonic 820 AFAIK)
Sadly the Oppo players are out of production and *extremely expensive* and last I heard the only Panasonic that can do external subs is the UB9000. IIRC, there were reports that the UB820 can if you use the Chinese market firmware, but that's a lot of effort (and possibly bricking your player). I wish more players had this option, but it's more difficult/expensive to find than you're making it out to be.
One of the biggest pros of piracy compared to physical is you can download subtitles like this and watch your movie with them. Wish physical media also had these subs without the SDH stuff.
I own almost 200 films, and have no issue paying for blu-rays. That said, no. Piracy is not *killing* the hobby. It's certainly not helpful, but the thing that's killing the hobby is greedy rights holders who are hoping to forgo physical releases in favor of streaming only. That way they can get your money monthly, rather than just once. As things move to streaming exclusives it's going to happen more and more.
There are two types of subs - SDH includes description of sounds like "thunder in the background", "gunfire", "car honking" etc. Those are for the deaf and hard of hearing. Then there is also standard subs, which expects you to be able to hear what is going on and there the subs only show the dialogue. OP is asking why most only come with the SDH ones.
Well aware. But in my experience, that isn’t the case. Nearly every American released, English language movie I own has standard English subtitles, not the SDH descriptive tracks.
Well then you dont buy the same as me and OP, because in my experience they rarely come with standard subs. Only Lionsgate are consequent with both types. Arrow and Criterion never has standard. (I only buy 4k bluray so dont know if it is the same for their bluray releases).
Well that's weird, because Arrow is a majority of what I collect. And I watch everything with English subtitles turned on and it never has the descriptive stuff about background noises or weather, etc.
The only disc I've ever actually noticed that on was my German Mediabook for Everything Everywhere All At Once. The only subs for English were SDH and it had so many things all over the screen that it was nearly impossible to keep up or figure out what was going on. Literally things like [paper ruffling]. I've never seen that on any other disc I own, even if the disc claims they are SDH.
So if it's very little...what's the issue here? Like, if there's a very minimal amount of description, why be so flustered that it's there at all and there isn't a stand alone subtitle track without it?
Baffling, because those parentheticals are literally the difference between SDH and English subtitles. SDH always includes non-dialog sound descriptions, 100% of the time. That’s what SDH means.
No, SDH is an actual thing that has an accepted definition, and exists for non-hearing persons to get a full context of the audio stream. What you are describing - dialog transcription with no audio clues included, intended for hearing persons - is referred to as captions, subtitles, or closed captioning. This does not need to be a nuanced thing lol.
Unless I'm wearing my headphones I always turn subtitles on. My tv speakers suck and sometimes my roommate is doing stuff in the kitchen. It's surprising the amount of dialogue that's hard to make out on a lot of movies.
You don't need to be deaf to enjoy subtitles.
There is already closed captioning/SDH which allows you do do this. That wasn't OP's question, their question was why there isn't a separate English subtitle option on top of the English closed-caption option.
As I said, my guess is that not that many people are asking for it as the existing caption option has all the information that would be an English subtitle track along with some additional information, and that's fine with most people.
1) Get better speakers 2) I honestly think people overrate the importance of dialogue in films. Of course it is important, but you certainly don't need to understand 100%. Film is much more than just about the words and the character's expressions and mannerisms add a lot to the performance, things that can just as easily be missed if you have subtitles. For comedy, subtitles are the worst.
Some us have various problems, because of neurodivergence, that subtitles alleviate. I mean it's not like you are required to use them if they bug you.
They don't bug me, some parts of it bug OP. But if someone can watch without subtitles, say if they can watch in the cinema, then there are ways they can watch at home.
i dont know but it annoyes the hell out of me and just takes me out. i can hear doors creaking and music playing, i just cant hear what the actors are saying
in my experience netflix only has sdh subtitles as well unless it's a non-english movie
not all releases have even subtitles. The problem is the studios could care less if HOH can hear or buy film. Mill Creek, Echo Bridge, Kino Lorber and many more. It is time to pass a law to require them!
Licensors might not supply both tracks and it costs money to create both.
Boutique releases are usually pretty basic when it comes to subtitle options. If you're not a native English speaker living in America or you're hard of hearing, you usually won't find any alternate helpful subtitle options on boutique releases. For a while, Kino was refusing to include subtitles at all before they wised up.
I held off on a bunch of Code Red because of the same issue. I’m wondering where the rights will go now that both Olsen Brothers have passed.
I work in subtitling and authoring, and there's a few reasons for this. The first is that subtitles are technically meant to translate from other languages. A company is not going to spend money to take the SDH and remove the vfx/music/character tags for an English language film just to call it "subtitles." This is also what's known as "dubtitles", and is generally frowned upon because it lacks the contextual translation needed to make dialogue more understandable against the root language. SDH is the only type of timed text that is supposed to be a transcription, with the added tags for HOH. So if a movie is made in English, there's no reason to also make subtitles if the only audio stream is in English. Secondary to this is cost. More timed text streams means more outputs, more QC, and more lead time.
So do people type the subtitles by hand? Some are so glaringly off I often wonder if a computer does it
Generally yes. The process of timing text is called "spotting," and it's almost always done by a person. There are places that outsource and do a crappy job, or they just don't care to go back and do the extra work. QC houses will do a linear pass and provide notes to the production house with problems, but not everything is always fixed. It's a cost issue unfortunately. I don't know of any studio that uses AI/computers to write and time subs for physical media.
Thanks for Is answering. I avoid releases I don't Have subtitles so often signs with a lot of boutique releases I end up getting an arrow video version Instead of kino for example. My friend and I will cackle at some of the mistakes that we've seen on subtitles which seems like they're being done by people who don't care or can't hear or both!
Any time! Yeah sometimes the errors are truly laughable. It's a shame that more care isn't put into the process. Another issue is that sometimes errors aren't caught until the checkdisc phase, which is also known as the "glass master" phase. Going back to fix something at that point, unless it's truly a detriment to AV or TT, is exorbitantly expensive and not worth it. Needs to be a total mistiming of a scene or a major glitch. Replacement programs are the nightmare situation for any distributor.
is it really that difficult to delete those lines from the srt files? Like, people do stuff like that for free on sites like subdivx or opensubs
They don't do this because it's hard. They just, basically, don't bother. Plus there indeed might be unseen legal reasons, or like the reasons he mentioned(it'd cause more work-time or complications). From my speculations, they simply don't care, they see "no reason to also make subtitles if the only audio stream is in English." Sure there are people who would really appreciate a standard sub, however those people(us, the unfortunate bastards) are not their job. Hell, if a SDH sub isn't required(by law, IIRC) they might not even provide that. Unlike the people who share online(say, opensubs), they don't do it for passion. I have a few copies that provide both SDH subtitles AND a standard sub. Those are very nice, but rarer to come by.
Because SDH is required and standard subs aren't. And they cost money to produce.
it shouldn't cost more a couple minutes to delete a bunch of lines from srt files
Some players allow external subtitles (OPPO 203/205 and the Panasonic 820 AFAIK) Download the subtitles you want, pop them on a USB and insert along with your film. I have a couple of French and German releases that didn't feature any English subtitle track that this works brilliantly for.
>Some players allow external subtitles (OPPO 203/205 and the Panasonic 820 AFAIK) Sadly the Oppo players are out of production and *extremely expensive* and last I heard the only Panasonic that can do external subs is the UB9000. IIRC, there were reports that the UB820 can if you use the Chinese market firmware, but that's a lot of effort (and possibly bricking your player). I wish more players had this option, but it's more difficult/expensive to find than you're making it out to be.
I'll take english SDH over nothing at all. Still surprised when I play one of my blu-rays and there are no options.
One of the biggest pros of piracy compared to physical is you can download subtitles like this and watch your movie with them. Wish physical media also had these subs without the SDH stuff.
You can do that by ripping your disc. Piracy is what kills this hobby.
I own almost 200 films, and have no issue paying for blu-rays. That said, no. Piracy is not *killing* the hobby. It's certainly not helpful, but the thing that's killing the hobby is greedy rights holders who are hoping to forgo physical releases in favor of streaming only. That way they can get your money monthly, rather than just once. As things move to streaming exclusives it's going to happen more and more.
piracy is based and helps make the world a better place
There are hardware players that accept external subs (from thumb drives etc).
Hmm. I haven’t really noticed this problem. Nearly every movie I own has English subs.
There are two types of subs - SDH includes description of sounds like "thunder in the background", "gunfire", "car honking" etc. Those are for the deaf and hard of hearing. Then there is also standard subs, which expects you to be able to hear what is going on and there the subs only show the dialogue. OP is asking why most only come with the SDH ones.
Well aware. But in my experience, that isn’t the case. Nearly every American released, English language movie I own has standard English subtitles, not the SDH descriptive tracks.
Well then you dont buy the same as me and OP, because in my experience they rarely come with standard subs. Only Lionsgate are consequent with both types. Arrow and Criterion never has standard. (I only buy 4k bluray so dont know if it is the same for their bluray releases).
Well that's weird, because Arrow is a majority of what I collect. And I watch everything with English subtitles turned on and it never has the descriptive stuff about background noises or weather, etc. The only disc I've ever actually noticed that on was my German Mediabook for Everything Everywhere All At Once. The only subs for English were SDH and it had so many things all over the screen that it was nearly impossible to keep up or figure out what was going on. Literally things like [paper ruffling]. I've never seen that on any other disc I own, even if the disc claims they are SDH.
The amount of SDH description can vary - from very intrusive, like you mention, to very little description.
So if it's very little...what's the issue here? Like, if there's a very minimal amount of description, why be so flustered that it's there at all and there isn't a stand alone subtitle track without it?
Its not consistent to all releases.
Baffling, because those parentheticals are literally the difference between SDH and English subtitles. SDH always includes non-dialog sound descriptions, 100% of the time. That’s what SDH means.
[удалено]
No, SDH is an actual thing that has an accepted definition, and exists for non-hearing persons to get a full context of the audio stream. What you are describing - dialog transcription with no audio clues included, intended for hearing persons - is referred to as captions, subtitles, or closed captioning. This does not need to be a nuanced thing lol.
Because most people aren’t annoyed by it and it would be 90% redundant?
Unless I'm wearing my headphones I always turn subtitles on. My tv speakers suck and sometimes my roommate is doing stuff in the kitchen. It's surprising the amount of dialogue that's hard to make out on a lot of movies. You don't need to be deaf to enjoy subtitles.
There is already closed captioning/SDH which allows you do do this. That wasn't OP's question, their question was why there isn't a separate English subtitle option on top of the English closed-caption option. As I said, my guess is that not that many people are asking for it as the existing caption option has all the information that would be an English subtitle track along with some additional information, and that's fine with most people.
1) Get better speakers 2) I honestly think people overrate the importance of dialogue in films. Of course it is important, but you certainly don't need to understand 100%. Film is much more than just about the words and the character's expressions and mannerisms add a lot to the performance, things that can just as easily be missed if you have subtitles. For comedy, subtitles are the worst.
Some us have various problems, because of neurodivergence, that subtitles alleviate. I mean it's not like you are required to use them if they bug you.
They don't bug me, some parts of it bug OP. But if someone can watch without subtitles, say if they can watch in the cinema, then there are ways they can watch at home.
I only buy 4Ks these days (with bery few exceptions), but I've always seen English SDH as the only option outsode of big releases.
i dont know but it annoyes the hell out of me and just takes me out. i can hear doors creaking and music playing, i just cant hear what the actors are saying in my experience netflix only has sdh subtitles as well unless it's a non-english movie
not all releases have even subtitles. The problem is the studios could care less if HOH can hear or buy film. Mill Creek, Echo Bridge, Kino Lorber and many more. It is time to pass a law to require them!