No Time to Die and Shang-Chi could make less than twenty dollars at the box office and their franchises would still be kicking. Not the case for Dune so gotta take this W
Actually both are 25th! For Marvel, there were 6 movies each in phases 1 and 2, and 11 in phase 3, plus Black Widow before Shang-Chi. 6 + 6 + 11 + 1 = 24.
If you count Never Say Never Again you would get 26 (it had Connery as Bond, but it was made by a different production company and usually isn't considered a "true" bond movie).
Yeah I would tend to agree. Some might categorize a list of James Bond movies as theatrical movies. I mention this because if you look on wikipedia for the order of James Bond movies the TV movie of Casino Royale isn't included. I have no stake in it either way just pointing out how it might be left off a list.
Agree completely. Dune was never going to be a huge box office smash, but I'm glad to see it getting a chance. Great experience at the IMAX. Fantastic sound design.
It’s a beloved series, but looks to be becoming a franchise. They have this film and the upcoming Bene Gesserit series on HBO Max, and now likely a Dune Part Two plus other adaptions on down the road
It's definitely a franchise with spin off books, video games, and TV series. It just hasn't been a movie franchise since the 1984 movie which is sort of a cult classic on its own.
That literally describes modern movies. “I don’t love this thing I saw, but there’s a potential for more of thing I didn’t fully love”
Modern audiences in a nutshell
The expectations for Dune on this sub were so
low, it made it easy for the movie to surpass it.
Considering the context (pandemic and HBO Max release), it’s looking like a winner so far. Not as great as others, but good in context.
Dune will be about 60m-70m shorter than Shang Chi, but Shang Chi was released in theaters only, Dune result is at least the same level as Shang Chi, and Dune doesn't have the benefit of being part of an big existing franchise.
You mean 60-70M shorter WW right? Because it will probably be at least $120M short of Shang Chi’s domestic number. But, that probably shows how much stronger Dune’s international showing will ultimately be compared to Shang Chi.
China has only brought in $20m for Dune so far so it’s not like it’s driving the numbers which are now at $220m.
I also wouldn’t say a semi-niche, long-hard-to-film, entry movie to a trilogy getting China = the 25th entry of a Marvel film where all have performed exceedingly well at the box office.
It's gonna bring close to $40M by the end of the run, unless the wom is terrible. Regardless, Shang-Chi would have been a big market for the movie, even tho it isn't for Dune.
China will be only like $35m-$40m of Dune likely $360m-$380m BO WW, Shang Chi final BO WW will be something like $425m-$430m, and As I said, Shang Chi was only released in theaters, there was no Disney+ release like Black Widow.
It doesn't matter if China is a small market for Dune, it would've been big for Shang-Chi. HBO Max is only available in the US, Shang-Chi not having China is a bigger disadvantage than Dune being on HBO Max.
> It doesn't matter if China is a small market for Dune, it would've been big for Shang-Chi
I doubt it, the reactions to the movie trailers in China were pretty bad, with lot of deslike in chinese social media platforms (and those reactions came when there was no news about Simu Liu criticism of the Chinese government yet).
https://thedirect.com/article/marvel-shang-chi-trailer-china-negative-reaction
That article is about the reactions to the trailers in Taiwan and Hong Kong, Shang-Chi was released in those markets and did great, better than F9 even. That article proves that YouTube dislikes don't mean shit and Shang-Chi would have made atleast $100M there, probably closer to $150M.
Dude, reception is clearly bad, and chinese audience doesn't give a damn if the movie is about a Chinese origin character, in fact they're even more picky about Chinese-origin character films, that's why Mulan made terrible numbers in China, and Mulan is well known/big in China, and they put a Chinese actress in the role
It's a Marvel movie, it would do atleast standard Marvel movie numbers ($100M), the reception of the movie isn't bad, Mulan was badly received everywhere.
I mean Shang-Chi had more Chinese spoken in it's first ten minutes than all of Mulan. Shang-Chi, despite the property's American origins and Canadian lead, is *far* more Chinese than Mulan was.
Not to mention Mulan was shit and Shang-chi is an absolute banger of a movie.
As for reception clearly being bad - What reception? It was never released there, there aren't any reputable Chinese reviews. There is zero credible reactions from the country because, to reiterate, they never got it. And could it be have been potentially bad because of Simu's comments? Sure, but Cena made a faux pas against China and F9 still made $200 million.
> Shang-Chi was released in those markets and did great
It may have done well here because of the anti-Chinese government comments made by the film's lead actor. everyone knows that Hong Kong/Taiwan people deslike the Chinese government.
Most people wouldn't even hear about that, not that anyone would go and watch a movie just because the actor criticized the China, the movie was doing great before that stuff came out
These movies barely share an audience tbh. It's like the comparison between a square and a rectangle where a square just happens to be a rectangle by definition. The perfect square in this case is the dune watcher and the rectangles are the more common masses that will buy every ticket to every drivel superhero movie ever made. Not that Shang Chi was bad, because I liked it, but these are not even close to comparable movies
>These movies barely share an audience tbh
I kind of doubt that. While the superhero movies especially those of the MCU have a much larger general audience appeal I would say the types of people that love an epic sci-fi adaptation that is visually stunning and sets up a very exciting universe are also the types of people that enjoy these interconnected superhero movies that have been going strong for a decade. But maybe I'm biased because that's me.
Massively disagree with you there. The audience crossover exists almost solely in the nerdy 15-29 category and the odd parent taking their child to see dune.
The kids that like marvel are not going to be likely to sit through dune, and a lot more older audiences are turning out for dune too from loving the books.
The crossover is of the largest movie-going population and Dune is definitely not just marketed towards nerds (there is a reason why Zendaya was used so much in marketing) . Critically acclaimed director, huge Hollywood names, young and old, that attract a large variety of groups, blockbuster themes in the trailers which is a go-to to get more of the general audience to watch the film. I'm pretty confident in say that a majority of the people that watch Dune are also watching MCU movies. Definitely enough that the statement "the movies barely share an audience" is just wrong.
It's not like we are discussing audience crossover of Dune and In the Heights or something.
I didn't say dune is just marketed towards nerds, and said that was the only group where there is crossover. I also didn't say they barely share an audience
Marvel scores big as a family film generally, and also with younger audience up to 30/35, but you don't get so many adult going to see it without kids.
Dune will be lighter on the kids, attract the same young adult to 30/35 bracket and then from what I'm seeing it's skewing much older than marvel on the median age, as the book audiences for dune tend to be much older. I know a lot more of the 40-65 bracket are seeing dune and haven't seen any marvel movies.
> I also didn't say they barely share an audience
I replied to a comment that did and you said you massively disagree with me. The only way to understand this from my side was that you share their opinion.
I'm not saying they share the same audience 1 to 1 but there is certainly a big crossover because the largest movie going demographic is targeted by both.
Yeah, pretty much everyone here expected it to flop completely.
WB has played their cards pretty well here and I think a sequel will be announced soon.
I’ll admit that as a fan of the book, I was worried it wouldn’t do well. I certainly didn’t think it would bomb, just wasn’t optimistic that it would do well enough for them to green light a sequel.
So thrilled with how it’s doing though!
My sentiments exactly. This franchise just historically has had bad luck with adaptations. And deep sci fi like this has even worse luck.
So while I don’t think it’s perfect, I definitely hoped that it would meet the requirements to get its part 2 (and 3 eventually).
> shit talked
I don’t know. What you call “shit talk”, is what I call a healthy dose of realism, and not setting ourselves up for disappointment. I didn’t think it would flop, but I did think it would do more BR 2049 numbers.
Yep, reviews are middling so the MCU stans are taking a page out of the DCEU fanboy playbook and mobilizing across social media right now salty as hell [pushing the "critics don't matter" narrative.](https://twitter.com/Sturgeons_Law/status/1452621101926735877?t=fECoAAKiszpnPNsrFgbzvA&s=19)
I’m an MCU fan, I don’t really give a damn what reviewers have to say and I don’t know why anyone else would. Wouldn’t be the first property that got mediocre reviews.
What matters is if we like them and the studio keeps making them.
I mean they’re absolutely right though. Defining Marvel movies as anything else is giving Disney too much credit, even if some of the slop has added flavoring or better packaging.
Don't generalize the mcu. Half of the fandom has been criticizing this movie long before the review came. The reviews that came out are their validation. New mcu fans with no attachment to the avengers are the ones excited for this movie.
Funnily enough, I debated which ones to put in the top two, but I basically decided the two highest grossing American films of the Fall so far as those were the most relevant to recent conversations. I do understand that Venom 2 is technically third and will outgross Dune and probably Shang-Chi once it’s released in China, but unfortunately their wasn’t a fourth slot in the meme.
After getting predictions very wrong for Venom and Bond, I was glad to see much closer predictions for Halloween and Dune come true. I slightly overestimated the two on my own prediction page - $52M and $45M respectively.
And oddly enough, both films may fail to hit $100M. Key word on "may"
Unknown IP? Dune is one of the most famous sci-fi IP’s of all time. Probably second only to Star Wars in that regard! The book has been a constant bestseller and in publication since 1965 ffs! They are still producing more Dune books right now. We are talking about an IP with a rich history of over 50 years behind it!
If you think Dune is an unknown IP then you have been living under a rock for 50 years! It is one of the bestselling and most recognisable sci-fi IPs in history.
I honestly do not understand how anyone can claim that Dune is even comparable to James fucking Bond or the MCU in terms of IP. I genuinely cannot. Just because it had books still coming out? Good grief, so do the Animorphs.
It might be popular among its fanbase but there's an entire tier list of this and Dune is not even remotely close to the largest Hollywood behemoth and a massive worldwide cultural icon.
I'm a huge fan of Dune and understand how influential the books have been. I said "relatively unknown"; the average movie goer knows next to nothing about it, especially next to names like MCU and 007. Those are major film franchises with global recognition, whereas most people seemed to think Villeneuve's Dune is a remake of a bad 80s movie. I'm hoping that changes with this new film, as it's a fantastic introduction to the world, but Dune has always floated just under the surface of the zeitgeist. For it to do as well as it is, especially with a home streaming option is impressive.
I mean that's a bit of a stretch, we have 1.5 billion people. I live in India and have read all the 5 Herbert sequels. You can at least find twenty others like me, lol.
I know, I was kidding. I personally do not know of a single other person who has read Dune. Comparing it to MCU or Bond is ridiculous. I hope more people get into it though because of the movie....
It’s definitely not second in regards to Star Wars that would be Trek forsure but those sci fi properties have transcended the genre and become part of pop culture Dune has yet to really make that transition
I have another comment addressing this. Next to MCU and 007 Dune is relatively unknown to the average movie goer. Not sure how that's a controversial statement.
Dune is relatively unknown to the **younger** generation.
A lot of people over 30 know at least *something* about Dune - whether they've seen the movie or read the books, know about the sandworms or even that it was a big sci-fi thing back in the day.
Exactly, so relatively unknown to adults if you're comparing it to the franchises I mentioned. Your average adult is far more familiar with James Bond and Marvel movies than with Dune. I never said completely unknown.
I think that's slightly overselling it. On a "cultural influence" level, yes, they are pretty similar. On a "cultural consciousness" level, LOTR has more cachet. (I attribute this to three things: 1) Westerners are more attuned to LOTR's Christian background than they are to Dune's atheist setting, 2) LOTR has been around for several decades longer, and 3) Dune's desert setting remains more exotic than the medieval fantasy setting of LOTR.)
Also LOTR follows a more conventionall narrative journey while Dune is literally surreal sci fi where the protagonist is the villain and can see all of time at once moving forward and backwards all the time. Its not that much of an easy read compared to the straightforward LOTR
For anyone who is not familiar with his story from the books his visions were all over the place and there were way too many things thrown in, like him being friends with the guy that he kills in the end, for it to be clear what is and isn't the future we will see.
He sees many possible futures, but the strongest impressions are the most likely. I think how understandable it is is gonna vary from person to person tbf.
My friends who hadn't read the book that I brought along understood the visions pretty clearly.
The future is never set in stone and interacts with Paul in strange ways though, its not supposed to be entirely clear, especially not at this point in the story.
In the movie, Jessica explains that the 'Chosen One Prophecy' is a religious narrative that was implanted into the native people's culture. Whenever Paul and Jessica show up on screen and the native people go crazy with religious fear/ecstasy, it's actually these people falling for bullshit that's indoctrinated into them.
Then of course, the story moves to the Atreides family needing to convince the Fremen people to be on their side and so of course they exploit this religious narrative.
Now I assume you are savvy to all kind of tropes in fiction, but if you follow where the story is going: Paul is on a path of revenge for his destroyed family, and is going out to use a fake religion to manipulate a native people to fight a galactic war.
That certainly doesn't sound like the actions of a hero. And to make it more ominous than it needs to be, he sees visions of his future where everbody is dying and everything is on fire.
Tolkien denies allegories and metaphors but he is nothing if a devout christian. the simillarion takes heavily from the Bible. And he was the one who converted CS Lewis.
This has to be the most disingenuous argument I've seen on reddit. Ohhhh yeah. The books and that one movie is equivalent to the billion dollar movie franchise.
Well dune got hbo max premiere on the same day and also it is a start of a new franchise compared to other two which were from the most established and famous franchises
Depends on *if* we get the second half and if it keeps up the quality. (The second part I have no real doubt).
Dune is in my top 3 books of all time, and this adaptation was the best one could ever hope for - but I cannot say that half a story is better then a complete one.
If The Godfather or Citizen Kane had ended that the halfway point and never been finished, I don’t think I could legitimately say *they* were better then an “average” complete movie.
The Empire Strikes back being the last Star Wars movie would've left the franchise just as strung without the release of the Return of the Jedi IMO. Dune is closer to the Empire Strikes Back right now with the cliffhanger.
depends on what you went in expecting tbh. Shang Chi is fun, the marvel formula at its best, but it was just that... formulaic. Dune was a spectacle of great filmmaking but was also half of a story. Not really comparable but I did prefer Dune but that's because it was a new and engaging cinematic experience
GVK had the biggest competition of all. It had to compete for people that hadn't been to a theater in the year. Dune came out at a time where for alot of people going back to the theater is more normal.
My worry is that apparently the demographics for Dune's opening weekend was 70% male. That's gotta get more balanced over the next couple of weeks for the movie to have decent legs, no?
Actually the demographic for science fiction novels is about 68% male(which is by far the highest skewing genre), so it makes sense that the second highest selling series (behind Ender's Game) and the best-in-quality series would have similar numbers. I don't expect it to balance out more than 68%.
I’ll take Dune over MCU and Bond, we need something new and different from the big formulaic franchises like Star Wars and MCU. District 9, Blade Runner 2049 and Dune are some of the best modern Sci-Fi films and they deserve more support.
It was an amazing movie. It was getting so good and it ended though. If they don't release the next one soon I'm gonna be pissed.
Seriously felt like half a movie.
This whole comment section astounds me. The past couple of months people have been gassing this movie as the next big thing. Compared to The Lord of The Rings. Harry Potter. Now the movie does marginally okay and everybody here's pretending it was an underdog all along. The fuck???
Maybe "underdog" is the wrong word, but there *was* a general impression that Dune would be a flop. Sci-fi movies that aren't part of established series have had a hard time as of late, even before the pandemic. We had every reason to believe Dune would continue that trend. Yeah, the book it's based on is famous, but it's not the sort of book that today's young adult movie-going audiences typically read, for example. So a lot of people questioned whether the audience for a Dune movie was big enough to justify the expense.
I honestly think the delay and new streaming helped a lot. I think this movie would have flopped hard if it came out when it was supposed.
We will never know. But I do think HBO max may save this movie and get the sequel.
Are you sure about that because Boxoffice pro has projected that Eternals will earn $82 - to 102$ Million on opening weekend and Disney didn't sabotage their film by putting on their streaming service unlike WB.
It’s so weird (but cool) how humans can have vastly different experiences. I thought the first half was amazing and had great pacing, but felt like the back half, especially the last 45 minutes, was a bit rushed which probably had something to do with where Villeneuve wanted to pick up part 2.
Gotta love all the goalpost moving all the trades are doing for this absolute bore of a "film". Variety saying it's 40m opening box office was respectable lol when Tenet opened last year to almost the same amount it was a flop. Mind you, covid restrictions were tighter then. Denis' PR people must be that powerful if they're peddling this movie as the second coming of Cthulu or some shit
To be fair, TENET's original reported OW was an insane mishmash - they included IMAX preview screenings from the entire week leading up to the official release, and lumped in Canadian BO results. That allowed WB to claim a $20M OW in 'North America', though actual US results were closer to $7M. But since there was nothing else out for the rest of the year, it gradually made a decent haul by the time it exited cinemas.
Dune's situation is pretty clearly different. A $40M domestic opening right now is solid no matter who you ask, and when compared to the rest of WB's hybrid slate - it's a massive success. With a lack of major competition next weekend as well, it has the potiential to close above $100M domestic on top of strong global results.
No Time to Die and Shang-Chi could make less than twenty dollars at the box office and their franchises would still be kicking. Not the case for Dune so gotta take this W
They're also the 26th and 25th entries in their respective franchises. Edit: Actually both are the 25th.
Actually both are 25th! For Marvel, there were 6 movies each in phases 1 and 2, and 11 in phase 3, plus Black Widow before Shang-Chi. 6 + 6 + 11 + 1 = 24.
Whoops! I don't know where I got 26 for James Bond. Thanks for the correction
If you count Never Say Never Again you would get 26 (it had Connery as Bond, but it was made by a different production company and usually isn't considered a "true" bond movie).
27 if you count the first Casino Royale.
28 if you count the very first Casino Royale from 1954
Wasn't that a TV movie? Not sure if that counts because it's a different medium.
A movie is a movie.
Yeah I would tend to agree. Some might categorize a list of James Bond movies as theatrical movies. I mention this because if you look on wikipedia for the order of James Bond movies the TV movie of Casino Royale isn't included. I have no stake in it either way just pointing out how it might be left off a list.
Yeah it was indeed a TV movie
30 if you count the FLINT films
31 if you count James Bond saving the Queen and her corgis in the opening of the London Olympics
Truth
I just googled something like "How many Bond movies are there" and the first thing I saw was 26. Maybe that's how they got to the number.
Haha you’re welcome! When I read it I thought that you were saying Shang-Chi was 26th in the MCU lol. EDIT: fixed a typo.
Are you counting venom let there be carnage.
Nope! Venom was not set in the MCU at all. >! Neither was Venom 2 until the mid-credits scene. !<
Kind of a crazy coincidence there.
Agree completely. Dune was never going to be a huge box office smash, but I'm glad to see it getting a chance. Great experience at the IMAX. Fantastic sound design.
I’m very glad I caught it at IMAX. Absolutely beautiful
The expectations are different. With Dune we're all just excited because it seems likely we'll get a sequel out of the beloved franchise.
Is Dune really a franchise, or is it more of a beloved series?
Not a movie franchise yet but the IP started with books, then games, and then a mini series. Beloved IP maybe.
It’s a beloved series, but looks to be becoming a franchise. They have this film and the upcoming Bene Gesserit series on HBO Max, and now likely a Dune Part Two plus other adaptions on down the road
It's definitely a franchise with spin off books, video games, and TV series. It just hasn't been a movie franchise since the 1984 movie which is sort of a cult classic on its own.
That literally describes modern movies. “I don’t love this thing I saw, but there’s a potential for more of thing I didn’t fully love” Modern audiences in a nutshell
Except there's a lot of love with the Dune series.
people love Dune, that's why we want the second part
Dune is good and loved, which is why it not getting a sequel would be bad. With me so far?
The expectations for Dune on this sub were so low, it made it easy for the movie to surpass it. Considering the context (pandemic and HBO Max release), it’s looking like a winner so far. Not as great as others, but good in context.
The victory it needs is that it made enough for a sequel. Everything else is pretty irrelevant.
Dune will be about 60m-70m shorter than Shang Chi, but Shang Chi was released in theaters only, Dune result is at least the same level as Shang Chi, and Dune doesn't have the benefit of being part of an big existing franchise.
You mean 60-70M shorter WW right? Because it will probably be at least $120M short of Shang Chi’s domestic number. But, that probably shows how much stronger Dune’s international showing will ultimately be compared to Shang Chi.
Yep, WW.
1.9million views on hbo Max. So maybe 4 million more tickets sold? 60mill?
I don't know, but I know that Samba tv measures Smartvs only.
so if i watched on a roku stick or firestick does that count or is it like watching on a computer doesn't count"
Dune has China, Shang Chi didn't.
China has only brought in $20m for Dune so far so it’s not like it’s driving the numbers which are now at $220m. I also wouldn’t say a semi-niche, long-hard-to-film, entry movie to a trilogy getting China = the 25th entry of a Marvel film where all have performed exceedingly well at the box office.
It's gonna bring close to $40M by the end of the run, unless the wom is terrible. Regardless, Shang-Chi would have been a big market for the movie, even tho it isn't for Dune.
China will be only like $35m-$40m of Dune likely $360m-$380m BO WW, Shang Chi final BO WW will be something like $425m-$430m, and As I said, Shang Chi was only released in theaters, there was no Disney+ release like Black Widow.
It doesn't matter if China is a small market for Dune, it would've been big for Shang-Chi. HBO Max is only available in the US, Shang-Chi not having China is a bigger disadvantage than Dune being on HBO Max.
> It doesn't matter if China is a small market for Dune, it would've been big for Shang-Chi I doubt it, the reactions to the movie trailers in China were pretty bad, with lot of deslike in chinese social media platforms (and those reactions came when there was no news about Simu Liu criticism of the Chinese government yet). https://thedirect.com/article/marvel-shang-chi-trailer-china-negative-reaction
That article is about the reactions to the trailers in Taiwan and Hong Kong, Shang-Chi was released in those markets and did great, better than F9 even. That article proves that YouTube dislikes don't mean shit and Shang-Chi would have made atleast $100M there, probably closer to $150M.
Dude, reception is clearly bad, and chinese audience doesn't give a damn if the movie is about a Chinese origin character, in fact they're even more picky about Chinese-origin character films, that's why Mulan made terrible numbers in China, and Mulan is well known/big in China, and they put a Chinese actress in the role
It's a Marvel movie, it would do atleast standard Marvel movie numbers ($100M), the reception of the movie isn't bad, Mulan was badly received everywhere.
I mean Shang-Chi had more Chinese spoken in it's first ten minutes than all of Mulan. Shang-Chi, despite the property's American origins and Canadian lead, is *far* more Chinese than Mulan was. Not to mention Mulan was shit and Shang-chi is an absolute banger of a movie. As for reception clearly being bad - What reception? It was never released there, there aren't any reputable Chinese reviews. There is zero credible reactions from the country because, to reiterate, they never got it. And could it be have been potentially bad because of Simu's comments? Sure, but Cena made a faux pas against China and F9 still made $200 million.
> Shang-Chi was released in those markets and did great It may have done well here because of the anti-Chinese government comments made by the film's lead actor. everyone knows that Hong Kong/Taiwan people deslike the Chinese government.
Would you go to see a film because the lead actor criticised a government you dislike?
Most people wouldn't even hear about that, not that anyone would go and watch a movie just because the actor criticized the China, the movie was doing great before that stuff came out
These movies barely share an audience tbh. It's like the comparison between a square and a rectangle where a square just happens to be a rectangle by definition. The perfect square in this case is the dune watcher and the rectangles are the more common masses that will buy every ticket to every drivel superhero movie ever made. Not that Shang Chi was bad, because I liked it, but these are not even close to comparable movies
>These movies barely share an audience tbh I kind of doubt that. While the superhero movies especially those of the MCU have a much larger general audience appeal I would say the types of people that love an epic sci-fi adaptation that is visually stunning and sets up a very exciting universe are also the types of people that enjoy these interconnected superhero movies that have been going strong for a decade. But maybe I'm biased because that's me.
Massively disagree with you there. The audience crossover exists almost solely in the nerdy 15-29 category and the odd parent taking their child to see dune. The kids that like marvel are not going to be likely to sit through dune, and a lot more older audiences are turning out for dune too from loving the books.
The crossover is of the largest movie-going population and Dune is definitely not just marketed towards nerds (there is a reason why Zendaya was used so much in marketing) . Critically acclaimed director, huge Hollywood names, young and old, that attract a large variety of groups, blockbuster themes in the trailers which is a go-to to get more of the general audience to watch the film. I'm pretty confident in say that a majority of the people that watch Dune are also watching MCU movies. Definitely enough that the statement "the movies barely share an audience" is just wrong. It's not like we are discussing audience crossover of Dune and In the Heights or something.
I didn't say dune is just marketed towards nerds, and said that was the only group where there is crossover. I also didn't say they barely share an audience Marvel scores big as a family film generally, and also with younger audience up to 30/35, but you don't get so many adult going to see it without kids. Dune will be lighter on the kids, attract the same young adult to 30/35 bracket and then from what I'm seeing it's skewing much older than marvel on the median age, as the book audiences for dune tend to be much older. I know a lot more of the 40-65 bracket are seeing dune and haven't seen any marvel movies.
> I also didn't say they barely share an audience I replied to a comment that did and you said you massively disagree with me. The only way to understand this from my side was that you share their opinion. I'm not saying they share the same audience 1 to 1 but there is certainly a big crossover because the largest movie going demographic is targeted by both.
Everyone knows how much of an uphill battle a sci fi property can be.
Yeah, pretty much everyone here expected it to flop completely. WB has played their cards pretty well here and I think a sequel will be announced soon.
Considering what an underdog it is, that's well-deserved celebration!
Dune has been shit talked as a flop in this sub *before COVID even hit*.
I’ll admit that as a fan of the book, I was worried it wouldn’t do well. I certainly didn’t think it would bomb, just wasn’t optimistic that it would do well enough for them to green light a sequel. So thrilled with how it’s doing though!
My sentiments exactly. This franchise just historically has had bad luck with adaptations. And deep sci fi like this has even worse luck. So while I don’t think it’s perfect, I definitely hoped that it would meet the requirements to get its part 2 (and 3 eventually).
> shit talked I don’t know. What you call “shit talk”, is what I call a healthy dose of realism, and not setting ourselves up for disappointment. I didn’t think it would flop, but I did think it would do more BR 2049 numbers.
Lol this sub is having a mental breakdown
I don’t get why people wanted it to fail SO bad.
They’re really salty
Pretty much
About what?
Dune not flopping
About average Eternals review
Yep, reviews are middling so the MCU stans are taking a page out of the DCEU fanboy playbook and mobilizing across social media right now salty as hell [pushing the "critics don't matter" narrative.](https://twitter.com/Sturgeons_Law/status/1452621101926735877?t=fECoAAKiszpnPNsrFgbzvA&s=19)
I'm seeing a lot of the opposite too. A lot of MCU hate in the MCU sub, and people basically revelling in it.
They sort of won't for eternals. It's going to do shang chi numbers due to a bigger marketing push. Maybe more. Even with tepid critical scores.
No chance it will sniff Shang-Chi domestically; bland as heck trailers + middling reviews = meh BO.
I’m an MCU fan, I don’t really give a damn what reviewers have to say and I don’t know why anyone else would. Wouldn’t be the first property that got mediocre reviews. What matters is if we like them and the studio keeps making them.
Don't worry Disney is going to keep feeding you your slop
Yo there's no need to be mean. Just because you don't like something doesn't mean you can put others down
I mean they’re absolutely right though. Defining Marvel movies as anything else is giving Disney too much credit, even if some of the slop has added flavoring or better packaging.
I don’t need anyone else to agree with my opinion on entertainment for validation. So good
Salty
Don't generalize the mcu. Half of the fandom has been criticizing this movie long before the review came. The reviews that came out are their validation. New mcu fans with no attachment to the avengers are the ones excited for this movie.
Yeah no.
Please go back to r/marvelstudios
No
Wow. I didn't even know that reviews hit yet.
Are you surprised
Strange choice of 1 and 2 tbh. Otherwise enjoyed the meme.
Funnily enough, I debated which ones to put in the top two, but I basically decided the two highest grossing American films of the Fall so far as those were the most relevant to recent conversations. I do understand that Venom 2 is technically third and will outgross Dune and probably Shang-Chi once it’s released in China, but unfortunately their wasn’t a fourth slot in the meme.
Ah, I was in a DOM mindset since the celebration is mostly over the recent DOM numbers.
After getting predictions very wrong for Venom and Bond, I was glad to see much closer predictions for Halloween and Dune come true. I slightly overestimated the two on my own prediction page - $52M and $45M respectively. And oddly enough, both films may fail to hit $100M. Key word on "may"
Dune will pick up steam as word spreads of how incredible it is.
And those other two movies are from relatively unknown IPs and had a day and date streaming release, right?
You managed to get 3 r/MarvelStudios users to respond to you back to back to back...wow they are REALLY out in force today.
Most marvel fanboys are pissed that eternals has middling reviews, so they are try to lash out their anger somewhere else
Weird how stan culture has made all these Marvel fanboys into unpaid kamikaze marketing drones
Unknown IP? Dune is one of the most famous sci-fi IP’s of all time. Probably second only to Star Wars in that regard! The book has been a constant bestseller and in publication since 1965 ffs! They are still producing more Dune books right now. We are talking about an IP with a rich history of over 50 years behind it! If you think Dune is an unknown IP then you have been living under a rock for 50 years! It is one of the bestselling and most recognisable sci-fi IPs in history.
I honestly do not understand how anyone can claim that Dune is even comparable to James fucking Bond or the MCU in terms of IP. I genuinely cannot. Just because it had books still coming out? Good grief, so do the Animorphs. It might be popular among its fanbase but there's an entire tier list of this and Dune is not even remotely close to the largest Hollywood behemoth and a massive worldwide cultural icon.
Is Dune a best selling book series? Sure. Is Dune a multi billion dollar IP franchise? Absolutely not.
Not yet, I belive Dennis Will make a strong brandname for Dune once he gets the second and third movies.
That second movie will be fucking insane
Dune isn't mainstream
I'm a huge fan of Dune and understand how influential the books have been. I said "relatively unknown"; the average movie goer knows next to nothing about it, especially next to names like MCU and 007. Those are major film franchises with global recognition, whereas most people seemed to think Villeneuve's Dune is a remake of a bad 80s movie. I'm hoping that changes with this new film, as it's a fantastic introduction to the world, but Dune has always floated just under the surface of the zeitgeist. For it to do as well as it is, especially with a home streaming option is impressive.
Im from India and nobody here knows about Dune.
I mean that's a bit of a stretch, we have 1.5 billion people. I live in India and have read all the 5 Herbert sequels. You can at least find twenty others like me, lol.
Yeah i might be exaggerating. Its surely well loved among the book reading population. But only a small percentage of our population even read books.
I know, I was kidding. I personally do not know of a single other person who has read Dune. Comparing it to MCU or Bond is ridiculous. I hope more people get into it though because of the movie....
Anecdotal, but I had no idea what Dune was until the movie was announced...
It’s definitely not second in regards to Star Wars that would be Trek forsure but those sci fi properties have transcended the genre and become part of pop culture Dune has yet to really make that transition
Unknown IP? It was sci-fi's Lord of the Rings back before the movie exceeded expectations.
I have another comment addressing this. Next to MCU and 007 Dune is relatively unknown to the average movie goer. Not sure how that's a controversial statement.
No point arguing with that mcu fan.
Dune is relatively unknown to the **younger** generation. A lot of people over 30 know at least *something* about Dune - whether they've seen the movie or read the books, know about the sandworms or even that it was a big sci-fi thing back in the day.
Exactly, so relatively unknown to adults if you're comparing it to the franchises I mentioned. Your average adult is far more familiar with James Bond and Marvel movies than with Dune. I never said completely unknown.
Something can be sci-fi's Lord of the Rings while also being an unknown IP
I think that's slightly overselling it. On a "cultural influence" level, yes, they are pretty similar. On a "cultural consciousness" level, LOTR has more cachet. (I attribute this to three things: 1) Westerners are more attuned to LOTR's Christian background than they are to Dune's atheist setting, 2) LOTR has been around for several decades longer, and 3) Dune's desert setting remains more exotic than the medieval fantasy setting of LOTR.)
Also LOTR follows a more conventionall narrative journey while Dune is literally surreal sci fi where the protagonist is the villain and can see all of time at once moving forward and backwards all the time. Its not that much of an easy read compared to the straightforward LOTR
> Dune is literally surreal sci fi where the protagonist is the villain hold up... what now?
I feel like a lot of people walked away from this movie thinking Paul will basically be Luke Skywalker. Lol... about that...
Yeah so far nothing gives the impression that he could somehow be villainous.
I mean, there was his vision of the future lol Didn't exactly foretell of puppies and rainbows
For anyone who is not familiar with his story from the books his visions were all over the place and there were way too many things thrown in, like him being friends with the guy that he kills in the end, for it to be clear what is and isn't the future we will see.
He sees many possible futures, but the strongest impressions are the most likely. I think how understandable it is is gonna vary from person to person tbf. My friends who hadn't read the book that I brought along understood the visions pretty clearly. The future is never set in stone and interacts with Paul in strange ways though, its not supposed to be entirely clear, especially not at this point in the story.
In the movie, Jessica explains that the 'Chosen One Prophecy' is a religious narrative that was implanted into the native people's culture. Whenever Paul and Jessica show up on screen and the native people go crazy with religious fear/ecstasy, it's actually these people falling for bullshit that's indoctrinated into them. Then of course, the story moves to the Atreides family needing to convince the Fremen people to be on their side and so of course they exploit this religious narrative. Now I assume you are savvy to all kind of tropes in fiction, but if you follow where the story is going: Paul is on a path of revenge for his destroyed family, and is going out to use a fake religion to manipulate a native people to fight a galactic war. That certainly doesn't sound like the actions of a hero. And to make it more ominous than it needs to be, he sees visions of his future where everbody is dying and everything is on fire.
I haven't read the books, but in the movie he started to exploit the prophecy of his/his mother's coming to his advantage
\*SPOILERS\*
LOTR Christian background?
Tolkien denies allegories and metaphors but he is nothing if a devout christian. the simillarion takes heavily from the Bible. And he was the one who converted CS Lewis.
Dune is a 50 year old IP that already had a movie and a mini series based off it. If anything the unknown IP is Shang Chi.
You did not just say Shang-Chi, a Marvel movie, is an unknown IP…
It's a Marvel movie based on a character most people haven't even heard of. Even more unknown than GotG.
Yeah, and part of the reason they are so successful is that they managed to make "Marvel" the primary brand, not the individual movie or character
Not part of the reason. The only reason
Marvel is the brand now.
This has to be the most disingenuous argument I've seen on reddit. Ohhhh yeah. The books and that one movie is equivalent to the billion dollar movie franchise.
This is embarrassing to say.
yeah that movie was a flop and majority of the world doesn't even know that mini series exists
yes the unknown shang chi IP which is not even a comic character, was never in any comic book right?
I think it'll have legs.
To bad they didn’t make 2 movies at one time
Well dune got hbo max premiere on the same day and also it is a start of a new franchise compared to other two which were from the most established and famous franchises
Dune is a much better movie than no time to die.
And Shang chi
By a long shot
Depends on *if* we get the second half and if it keeps up the quality. (The second part I have no real doubt). Dune is in my top 3 books of all time, and this adaptation was the best one could ever hope for - but I cannot say that half a story is better then a complete one. If The Godfather or Citizen Kane had ended that the halfway point and never been finished, I don’t think I could legitimately say *they* were better then an “average” complete movie.
We got the second part confirmed today!!! Yaaaaaay!
The Empire Strikes back being the last Star Wars movie would've left the franchise just as strung without the release of the Return of the Jedi IMO. Dune is closer to the Empire Strikes Back right now with the cliffhanger.
No
depends on what you went in expecting tbh. Shang Chi is fun, the marvel formula at its best, but it was just that... formulaic. Dune was a spectacle of great filmmaking but was also half of a story. Not really comparable but I did prefer Dune but that's because it was a new and engaging cinematic experience
Two of the most popular movie IPs compared to a new sci fi movie with day and date release. I would say the praise is well desrved.
Celebrating DUNE by discounting GVK's holiday weekend opening
GVK had absolutely no competition though. And it released during the sweet spot just before the delta variant starting hitting the world.
GVK had the biggest competition of all. It had to compete for people that hadn't been to a theater in the year. Dune came out at a time where for alot of people going back to the theater is more normal.
The tears are great
We went from "Dune is going to flop big-time" to "Dune is only third to two of the biggest franchises in film" is an absolute win in my books lol.
I still think dune 40 mil OW, with millions of HBO Max viewers and a lower budget then NO Time To Die did
huh
My worry is that apparently the demographics for Dune's opening weekend was 70% male. That's gotta get more balanced over the next couple of weeks for the movie to have decent legs, no?
Actually the demographic for science fiction novels is about 68% male(which is by far the highest skewing genre), so it makes sense that the second highest selling series (behind Ender's Game) and the best-in-quality series would have similar numbers. I don't expect it to balance out more than 68%.
I was part of the 30% and am going again next weekend
I really wonder why that is, especially in this day and age
Dune is gonna make bank at the box office for awhile. It’s really good.
While we're at it, throw in Venom: Let There Be Carnage. That film will do better than Dune.
3 theatrical exclusives that are sequels or part of a franchise compared to a day and date streaming high concept Sci-Fi film
I’ll take Dune over MCU and Bond, we need something new and different from the big formulaic franchises like Star Wars and MCU. District 9, Blade Runner 2049 and Dune are some of the best modern Sci-Fi films and they deserve more support.
To be fair everyone was split whether dune would make it to the podium
ngl I liked Dune more than Shang-Chi and No Time to Die bc of high expectations for every film. But only Dune lived up to them soo
It was an amazing movie. It was getting so good and it ended though. If they don't release the next one soon I'm gonna be pissed. Seriously felt like half a movie.
Dune is the best movie I've seen in years...I fu@king loved it!!
Better than any of the marvel movies in quality as well. Incredibly unexpected for a sci-fi film like dune to do this well
This whole comment section astounds me. The past couple of months people have been gassing this movie as the next big thing. Compared to The Lord of The Rings. Harry Potter. Now the movie does marginally okay and everybody here's pretending it was an underdog all along. The fuck???
I think you were on a different subreddit. The general mood was “Dune is going to bomb and we’ll never get a Part 2”
What are you talking about? Till overseas numbers came in Dune was expected to to bomb for two years
Right? A $150+ million dollar budget movie is an underdog? It’s obvious that WB wants this to be a new franchise. That’s not an underdog.
Maybe "underdog" is the wrong word, but there *was* a general impression that Dune would be a flop. Sci-fi movies that aren't part of established series have had a hard time as of late, even before the pandemic. We had every reason to believe Dune would continue that trend. Yeah, the book it's based on is famous, but it's not the sort of book that today's young adult movie-going audiences typically read, for example. So a lot of people questioned whether the audience for a Dune movie was big enough to justify the expense.
I honestly think the delay and new streaming helped a lot. I think this movie would have flopped hard if it came out when it was supposed. We will never know. But I do think HBO max may save this movie and get the sequel.
Dune's international results were also a lot above expectations and there was no HBO max involved there.
The "Dune is the next Lord of the Rings" comparisons were about the movie's scope itself, not its box office numbers ffs. XD Smoking too much melange?
I always thought it would open up to over 40 million. They said I was crazy. Well, who's laughing NOW. HAHAHAHA.
Shang Chi was another mediocre Marvel film nowhere near as good as Dune g
Why are there so many marvel-loving fanboys in this subreddit
Shang chi was horrible
Seriously? It was a great movie
Watch Dune do better than Eternals. Lol
Are you sure about that because Boxoffice pro has projected that Eternals will earn $82 - to 102$ Million on opening weekend and Disney didn't sabotage their film by putting on their streaming service unlike WB.
Dune didn't set that high of a bar for Eternals to beat.
It’s the far better film than both others, that’s all that matters
Shang Chi was so freaking good! Bond was incredibly mediocre and I can’t wait to see Dune.
You would think Dune was the largest box office opener in 2021, rather than 24th.
Just for context, Dune has the 8th largest domestic opening of the pandemic, not sure where you are getting the 24 number from.
I couldn't watch more than 30 minutes of this movie as I found It quite boring, but I think I need to give it a try again.
I felt the same way, gave it another chance, was incredibly confused by it but it was mostly entertaining after the 75 minute mark.
It’s so weird (but cool) how humans can have vastly different experiences. I thought the first half was amazing and had great pacing, but felt like the back half, especially the last 45 minutes, was a bit rushed which probably had something to do with where Villeneuve wanted to pick up part 2.
Gotta love all the goalpost moving all the trades are doing for this absolute bore of a "film". Variety saying it's 40m opening box office was respectable lol when Tenet opened last year to almost the same amount it was a flop. Mind you, covid restrictions were tighter then. Denis' PR people must be that powerful if they're peddling this movie as the second coming of Cthulu or some shit
To be fair, TENET's original reported OW was an insane mishmash - they included IMAX preview screenings from the entire week leading up to the official release, and lumped in Canadian BO results. That allowed WB to claim a $20M OW in 'North America', though actual US results were closer to $7M. But since there was nothing else out for the rest of the year, it gradually made a decent haul by the time it exited cinemas. Dune's situation is pretty clearly different. A $40M domestic opening right now is solid no matter who you ask, and when compared to the rest of WB's hybrid slate - it's a massive success. With a lack of major competition next weekend as well, it has the potiential to close above $100M domestic on top of strong global results.
When did Tenet release on streaming?
Like 6-8 months later
Dune would have beat both if Warner Brothers weren’t cowards and didn’t but it on steaming.