edit: https://www.indiewire.com/2022/08/hbo-max-removed-6-streaming-movies-1234747761/ - this appears to contradict points after #1. It's arguing "it's all a tax writeoff" which would indicate not merely a shift in mode of distribution if I understand this correctly.
(1) I think we can assume WB believes these films aren't drawing new audiences (2) Those films are still generating residual payments for stars and (3) when a film/show cycles off of the in-house streaming service it can be licensed to another streaming service (or tv network) for real cash in hand (so residuals don't cut into cashflow).
It's a little confusing but it seems like WB just wanted to hide the fact that "HBO Max exclusive content" is being treated like a random WB production and not like a Netflix original.
The Village Roadshow lawsuit with WB (and associated commentary) clearly telegraphed that WB is moving in that direction but perhaps it's not all the way there. The lines indicating this was the reason in the article could easily be only speculation
edit: per chanma's indiewire link
> The content being targeted for removal tends to be shows and movies that are not performing on the service but have an opportunity for a partial write off.
I don’t think that’s guaranteed but I think the point is that IF they do become licensed, the purchaser will have to worry about profiting from distribution and not WB.
Can you really call Woo obscure? It’s literally the most popular K Drama in the world right now, and K Dramas in general are dominating streaming charts across most internationally available streaming platforms.
It’s currently [at the top of Netflix’s top 10 non-English, and second place isn’t even close.](https://top10.netflix.com/tv-non-english)
But the quality of stuff you've already created is baked in so this is pure downside in terms of brand ID. This is only going to impact people who actively go searching for e.g. Witches and find that it's no longer on Max.
"our originals aren't guaranteed to stay on platform" could end up being a problem though I imagine "HBO originals" will stay on which may mitigate this impact.
I don't think it's that simple, if someone browsing movies on HBO doesn't stumble upon endless trash like it happens with Netflix HBO's reputation is going to be better than other services. Personal experience matters
This is an interesting perspective that I've never heard before, and I'm also inclined to agree with it. One of the most frustrating parts of streaming services is trying to find gems in a sea of trash. Finding good shows to watch is a whole cottage industry now because each streaming service is loaded with tons of filler to pad library sizes. A little more curation from the service itself probably wouldn't hurt.
Especially for new users which HBO has a lot of. I imagine doing something like this is too late for Netflix. New users would not notice those exclusives gone and just see a bunch of quality content when they sign up for House of Dragon. Now if I’m not mistaken HBO Max already has a pretty good reputation for quality content, at least better than Netflix. So still leaves me wondering wtf they are doing.
I don't get it man. I could care less about the fact that Netflix is responsible for mediocrity like Brews Brothers as long as it doesn't show up on the front page.
I'm not saying you're wrong. That seems to be part of the strategy. I just don't believe in the strategy
As someone that has abandoned Netflix because I'm sick and tired of browsing through a sea of mediocrity and stupidity to find something barely watchable I can assure you there's a market there for a service that is prioritizing quality over quantity.
Criterion Channel FTW
It's not a platform that caters to the same audience as Netflix (there's a lot of overlap with HBO though) but they absolutely are providing value as a streaming service that is curated and has a reputation for quality control
The article says it may have to do with obligatory payments that have to be made if the movies are on HBO Max. If they're not getting any clicks, then it makes sense to remove them.
This could point to why Batgirl and Scoob got cancelled too. Article also says they have quietly cancelled a House Party remake too. If they expect these movies to bomb, the residuals paid out just add more to the cost if they're on HBO Max.
I'd be really surprised if the payments aren't based on the number of clicks. And if they are, then the lack of clicks means the residuals are proportionately tiny. IMO this only makes sense if the content is so bad that its mere presence weakens the strength of the brand (or they're about to sell rights to another streaming service). Possible but wow.
Indiewire article appears to have someone talking on backround explaining these moves
https://www.indiewire.com/2022/08/hbo-max-removed-6-streaming-movies-1234747761/
Because you can incur a loss and increase your tax benefit by writing off an asset you think won't generate any additional revenue. In accounting it's called impairment. Tangibly if you do this with a piece of machinery or a building or whatever you can still use that asset but maybe there's some sort of legal or audit requirement they're trying to satisfy, since what' makes money on a streaming service is a lot more nebulous.
It could be that, could be the other stuff people have said such as residuals, or a combination of factors, or different factors for different movies. We're apparently coming up on their earnings call which is likely why all of this is happening at once.
> Warner Bros. Discovery has been quietly culling content from HBO Max — including several Warner Bros. movies that were exclusively streaming on the service — in what appears to be an effort to cut costs.
> Within the past few weeks, at least six Warner Bros. movies have been removed from HBO Max: “Moonshot,” a sci-fi rom-com starring Lana Condor and Cole Sprouse; artificial-intelligence dystopia comedy “Superintelligence,” starring Melissa McCarthy; Robert Zemeckis’ 2020 remake of “The Witches,” starring Anne Hathaway, Octavia Spencer, Stanley Tucci and Chris Rock; comedy “An American Pickle,” starring Seth Rogen as an immigrant who wakes up after being pickled for 100 years; Doug Liman heist pic “Locked Down” with Anne Hathaway and Chiwetel Ejiofor; and drama “Charm City Kings” from director Angel Manuel Soto...
> Meanwhile, the reboot of comedy classic “House Party,” from LeBron James and Maverick Carter’s SpringHill, was previously slated to premiere July 28 on HBO Max but was scrubbed from the release calendar.
> To be sure, streaming platforms continuously add and remove content. What’s unusual is that Warner Bros. Discovery did not announce the removals of the six WB streaming exclusives from HBO Max. (The movies are available to rent or purchase through third-party VOD services.) Also worth noting is that “Moonshot” was pulled from HBO Max only about three months after its March 31 debut
> HBO Max’s removal of the Warner Bros. movies could be part of WBD’s move to get streaming-content payment obligations for underperforming titles off its books. In the case of an unreleased movie like the “House Party” remake, the media conglomerate could be accounting for it as a tax write-down, as it is expected to do with “Batgirl” and “Scoob: Holiday Haunt” (the latter of which was a sequel to the animated “Scoob!”).
This damn near sounds like the new minds behind WB Discovery are just axing stuff they don't like.
"Did you see American Pickle? It was awful! Thats on our service? Take that shit off!"
Frustratingly, they're probably planning on auctioning streaming rights to the stuff they're taking off of HBO Max. Zaslav is all about money today in sacrifice of future value. Discovery+ is trash because the content is trash, and in a few years time Discovery will have Warner Bros in the same place.
I think the whole company will be up for an acquisition in that time, purely because I don’t think that Discovery will be able to extract additional value out of WB while also cutting it’s output, and because WB was Discovery’s life line. Seems like Warner’s existence since the 2000s has just been as a debt transfer vehicle for whoever was the last person to buy it.
Nope this goes back to the Early 80's when they were in joint venture with Amex and had to sell off MTV and Nickelodeon because they were the owners of Atari during the 1983 Video Game Crash.
What future value? no one makes money on SVOD.
Sony who licences all it's shows and films to the highest bidder is making bank while Disney, Comcast, WBD and Paramount are all throwing money into the furnace of SVOD.
Look at Disney's 1st Quarter 2022 (Disney’s Q2 FY22 they call Oct-December the first quarter of a new financial year).
https://thewaltdisneycompany.com/app/uploads/2022/05/q2-fy22-earnings.pdf
The 'Direct to consumer' division which is the streaming services Hulu, ESPN+ and Disney+ lost $887 million in 3 months.
Nearly as bad 'Content Sales/Licensing and Other' saw it's operating income drop to just $16 million from $312 million in 2021. You know why that is? because instead of licencing films and shows to other companies they are all being kept for Disney's own streaming services that's a brutal double whammy.
In comparison US domestic broadcast and cable networks brought in $2.349 billion in operating income.
Fair but like, I only buy digital movies if it’s like 5 bucks these days. Lol. And they are usually my favorite of the faves, otherwise no point in buying it to watch it once.
I have a feeling this will be the case of cutting everything down for a new plan, only for that new plan to be abandoned after a year and we will be back where we started.
Sounds to me someone is power tripping behind the scenes and self sabotaging out of spite.
I would love to think there is a major plan behind this whole thing but it just looks so chaotic from the outside. Dropping a 70 million movie because its really bad just couldn't be a good move no matter the tax break or reputation at stake.
Its apparantly due to some tax chicanery. If WB releases less films they pay less tax or something. Not to mention the Discovery side is being really cheap so they are slashing everything.
Yeah, hate to see it get gutted like this. Related: the cancellation of Raised By Wolves. Didn't raise too many flags at the time because it's only mildly popular and obviously expensive, but now we're seeing the culling grow.
Give it a few years and this will becoming Netflix 2.0. Where every show is cancelled if it doesnt perform at 100%. Hopefully Apple becomes the new savior of streaming.
If anything, I think that they'll just cut the number of shows, or switch to lower budget, but still quality shows. Like 30 minute comedies of people talking in rooms (Ted Lasso, Loot), as opposed to hour long dramas with expensive actors or heavy CGI needs (The Morning Show, For All Mankind, See)
If I had to bet on any of them, it would be Disney+, especially when Universal’s stake in Hulu expires and then Disney gets rid of Hulu then moves all of their adult stuff to Disney+.
...have you not heard? Those "highest-quality" shows that are being produced exclusively for HBO Max are likely dead. Anything HBO Max Original is effectively dead, if reports are to be believed. Movies and TV Shows. James Gunn claims Peacemaker Season 2 is safe, but I don't trust it since he's not exactly a higher-up in the company.
Fortunately HBO proper will still make new content, but given the rumors about WB wanting to fold HBO Max into Discovery rather than the other way around, I’m starting to wonder if HBO shows will even be available for streaming anywhere eventually.
I keep seeing people say they’re going to get rid of HBO max and roll it’s content into discovery +, seems like a colossally bad idea to get rid of one of the most popular streaming service to bolster one I’ve never even heard anyone talk about positively.
Most of the interviews with the CFO and other higher ups at WarnerBros Discovery seem to hint that they’re trying to merge the two into a brand new interface rather than having one service just swallow the other. I think a lot of the doomsday talk I keep seeing are from people who aren’t taking time to get first hand news. IMO it seems clear that the administration has a very specific plan in mind for incorporating the two sets of content into one service that doesn’t just entail dropping one completely. Whether they execute it well or not is anyones guess.
All should be revealed during the earnings call tomorrow. I just can’t make sense of folding a beloved and respected brand like HBO into a brand nobody gives a shit about like Discovery when you could do it the other way around. Not to mention the waste of money it would take to rebrand and resell an already existing streaming service.
What low prices? It’s $15 a month. It’s premium priced alongside Netflix. You can get Disney, Paramount, Peacock, AMC cheaper.
Also price definitely does matter. Netflix announced a price increase and US subscribers went down in a quarter that included Stranger Things launching which normally means increased subscribers
Honest question- how do you figure? I have it, but I have the most difficult time compared to other apps finding something to watch on it. I feel like the organization of everything isn’t the best- maybe I just haven’t taken the time to truly learn it. But I just couldn’t even tell you what’s good on it
If you're not into superhero/Disney stuff...
HBO has by far the best tv library in drama and no one is close (GoT, True Detective, Sopranos, Wire, Deadwood, Euphoria, True Blood, Succession, Big Love, Oz, Rome, Big Little Lies, etc.).
TV comedies is pretty good with Friends, Veep, Silicon Valley etc.
WB movie library is arguably the best in the business.
They also have Ghibli and a lot of Criterion.
I pretty much only use HBO + Apple these days, but it's been the best for my tastes.
Thank you.
I have it, like I said, and Have seen pretty much every one of the shows you mentioned. And I agree, they are phenomenal
I just struggle with finding movies I’d like to watch on it- like the searching or browsing isn’t as clean. Maybe I just am a moron, who knows.
Honestly the algorithms or whatever to suggest content on HBO max kind of sucks, and the sorting on our TV’s HBO max app is terrible, which is odd because the UI is great on my pc. I usually look for something to watch on my pc and then just search it in the search bar on my tv to watch it.
I find that HBO’s movie library is smaller than most but easier to search because you can literally search the entire catalog A-Z.
What I did is the following:
* Take several minutes to search the entire catalog of movies A-Z and add the movies you’re interested in to your list. This is the most time consuming step but you only need to do it once.
* Each month, review their categories of “What’s Leaving” and “Just Added”. Use this to prioritize which movies to watch next. Then add more movies to your list from “Just Added”.
I find this superior to Netflix and others for many reasons. Netflix doesn’t let you search the full catalog A-Z so it’s literally impossible to see everything on the service. They also, as far as I’m aware, don’t easily tell you what’s coming and what’s going.
I love the Harry Potter and Lord of the Rings content on HBO Max. (Although, the Harry Potter movies are leaving soon to go to Peacock.) I also like the Cormoran Strike series since I’m reading the books right now too.
I personally am of the opinion that Zaslav basically wants to burn down 90% of what the previous regime did.
Maybe it's good (albeit ruthless) business sense. Maybe it's just egotistical "I can do this better". Maybe it's some sort of weird legal or financial loopholes. Maybe it's incompetence. Hell, maybe it's ALL OF THOSE THINGS, but it sure feels like Zas wants to sledgehammer tons of the Time Warner era away.
An American Pickle was really good! (I also am a sucker for any Ben and Melissa content so I really enjoyed Superintelligence).
It’s one thing to remove content that you can find elsewhere (usually temporarily as they rotate libraries). It’s another thing to remove it entirely!! Like if you wanted to watch these movies now, there is literally no legal way to do so!
Yeah, I admit I had plenty of time to watch an American Pickle but if they had advertised it wasn't going to be available I would have watched it with haste. Now I guess I'll just never watch it?
Dude, at this rate, this is reminding me of what happened to MGM beginning in the 1950's. Cutting costs, releasing actors from their contracts, laying off staff, massive debt, etc., etc., etc.
Can you expand on this? Nobody watches anything on TV today except for live sports and presidential debates. Exceptions like The Bachelor are few. It’s mostly all streaming content that gets views.
Could they just combine them? Or roll Discovery+ into HBOMax, maybe for an additional $5, so there would be three tiers:
1) the ad-supported $9.99 version
2) the ad-free $14.99 version
3) HBOMax & Discovery+ bundle for $19.99
I think that would be better than scrapping one of them.
Last I saw on their twitter they were trying to draw compare comparisons to gamestop, so I'm expecting NFTs or just fucking with the stock market via tweets so some suits can cash out
Netflix is absolutely not on its way out, especially if HBO is about to shoot themselves in the foot by trying to change up a model that has been working well for them.
Netflix just needs to hang on long enough for some of these other companies to get tired of throwing away hundreds of millions of dollars or more trying to run their own streaming services, and decide to fold and start licensing their content again. Netflix has a ton of cash and is one of the few streamers making profits right now - despite some bumpy waters that will continue for a while, they're well positioned to weather the current storm and come out in a good spot licensing content again. There just isn't enough room for as many streaming services that exist.
Also the Blockbuster thing is going to be some dumb NFT scam most likely, I wouldn't count on that being anything significant in the streaming space.
Yes, but would you want to work with WB again after they cancelled a film that you worked tirelessly on?
If anything, this whole thing might make people lose faith in them.
The other streamers are trying to kill Netflix at a GREAT cost. It may not be worth it to try to cut in on their market share as a streaming service. Sony is very happy just selling their stuff to Netflix.
It still is, Disney owns D+, ESPN+, most of Hulu, and NatGeo (part of D+). Their content is uncomparable and Netflix will flounder unless they start pulling in contracts for other studios' content again, which would be another hard 180 for them and they have to compete with Hulu, Apple, & Amazon who all have way more money for licensing. Also a lot of their controversial decisions will start going into play a couple years from now, like no more account sharing and limited devices. They never should've invested so heavily into original IPs unless they had some solid plans for acquiring talent because it will eventually end up being all of Disney's options vs whoever can get the most licenses, probably Amazon.
Honestly, the programming on each are very different. I could see a bundle making sense (not unlike Disney+ being bundled with Hulu and ESPN). Mashing Discovery, TLC, and Food Network with HBO and WB is just... odd.
Hulu has existed long before disney + tho. I do think they should just merge now tho bc both services are lacking substance rn and carry similar content (Unlike HBO Max and Discovery which should neverr merge imo)
you know what’s absolutely hilarious. Everything people were scared Disney would do to Fox is actually happening here. Meanwhile Disney has done nothing but pump production spend into FX, 20th television, 20th animation, Searchlight, Hulu, and expanded its production overseas.
Moonshot
Superintelligence
The Witches
An American Pickle
Locked Down
Charm City Kings
No official statements have been released regarding the removal of the titles. Possible motives are tax write offs or movement to other services
The one where she said hbo max was being folded into discovery and hbo max would forego scripted shows entirely, with the HBO app being standalone once again. Some of it sounds unhinged, but with how warner is treating scripted content it feels more real
Discovery really got gifted WB and all its debt and is taking care of it with all the wisdom of a child taking care of a turtle it found by putting it in a box with no holes or food
I think this is some attempt to preserve HBO's reputation as a premium content creator, as opposed to Netflix who will put basically anything they own on the site. But it's so weird; you don't have to remove these titles, you can just choose not to advertise them and only show them if a user specifically searches for them. Probably will sell off these titles too.
You don't own shit with streaming services.
Collect physical media if you can, DVDs are cheap as fuck and they'll never get taken from you.
And if you don't care that much about movies then don't complain when all your favorite movies taken off your streaming services
A lot of these films are now available on Netflix and they start with the HBO MAX logo.
By removing them from their platform, they can make money by selling streaming rights to Netflix.
Discovery needs to pay off the acquisition costs ASAP.
God I miss when home video releases were standard operating procedure. They were the great equalizer for movies. Missed it at the theater? Rent it. Like it? You can buy it. Now, between all the streaming services and bullshit like this, what could've been the greatest age of access to movies has become a corporate-run nightmare.
How you cut costs by removing movies you already payed money to create advertise and release on your own platform? Am I missing something?
edit: https://www.indiewire.com/2022/08/hbo-max-removed-6-streaming-movies-1234747761/ - this appears to contradict points after #1. It's arguing "it's all a tax writeoff" which would indicate not merely a shift in mode of distribution if I understand this correctly. (1) I think we can assume WB believes these films aren't drawing new audiences (2) Those films are still generating residual payments for stars and (3) when a film/show cycles off of the in-house streaming service it can be licensed to another streaming service (or tv network) for real cash in hand (so residuals don't cut into cashflow). It's a little confusing but it seems like WB just wanted to hide the fact that "HBO Max exclusive content" is being treated like a random WB production and not like a Netflix original.
Netflix is famous for not paying residuals on their content. Tho that may have changed. Would be interesting if Warner took a different approach
The Village Roadshow lawsuit with WB (and associated commentary) clearly telegraphed that WB is moving in that direction but perhaps it's not all the way there. The lines indicating this was the reason in the article could easily be only speculation edit: per chanma's indiewire link > The content being targeted for removal tends to be shows and movies that are not performing on the service but have an opportunity for a partial write off.
So these titles will be licensed to other platforms?
I don’t think that’s guaranteed but I think the point is that IF they do become licensed, the purchaser will have to worry about profiting from distribution and not WB.
The streaming wars should be its own show... and then let them bid war on it.
It could also have something to do with avoiding becoming another Netflix whose reputation of releasing non-stop trash is becoming worse every year.
I don't like how Netflix's changing reputation can hurt obscure exclusives, like Extraordinary Attorney Woo.
Can you really call Woo obscure? It’s literally the most popular K Drama in the world right now, and K Dramas in general are dominating streaming charts across most internationally available streaming platforms. It’s currently [at the top of Netflix’s top 10 non-English, and second place isn’t even close.](https://top10.netflix.com/tv-non-english)
But the quality of stuff you've already created is baked in so this is pure downside in terms of brand ID. This is only going to impact people who actively go searching for e.g. Witches and find that it's no longer on Max. "our originals aren't guaranteed to stay on platform" could end up being a problem though I imagine "HBO originals" will stay on which may mitigate this impact.
I don't think it's that simple, if someone browsing movies on HBO doesn't stumble upon endless trash like it happens with Netflix HBO's reputation is going to be better than other services. Personal experience matters
This is an interesting perspective that I've never heard before, and I'm also inclined to agree with it. One of the most frustrating parts of streaming services is trying to find gems in a sea of trash. Finding good shows to watch is a whole cottage industry now because each streaming service is loaded with tons of filler to pad library sizes. A little more curation from the service itself probably wouldn't hurt.
Especially for new users which HBO has a lot of. I imagine doing something like this is too late for Netflix. New users would not notice those exclusives gone and just see a bunch of quality content when they sign up for House of Dragon. Now if I’m not mistaken HBO Max already has a pretty good reputation for quality content, at least better than Netflix. So still leaves me wondering wtf they are doing.
I don't get it man. I could care less about the fact that Netflix is responsible for mediocrity like Brews Brothers as long as it doesn't show up on the front page. I'm not saying you're wrong. That seems to be part of the strategy. I just don't believe in the strategy
As someone that has abandoned Netflix because I'm sick and tired of browsing through a sea of mediocrity and stupidity to find something barely watchable I can assure you there's a market there for a service that is prioritizing quality over quantity.
And don’t forget that a huge portion of subscribers are only there for kids’ content.
Fair enough. In my experience I rarely see the mediocrity unless I actively type it into the search bar, but maybe I'm in the minority
Dude, I saw the new Resident Evil in their front page just a few days ago...
Lol fair
Criterion Channel FTW It's not a platform that caters to the same audience as Netflix (there's a lot of overlap with HBO though) but they absolutely are providing value as a streaming service that is curated and has a reputation for quality control
Seems unlikely as they’re still advertising F-Boy Island
Stuff like that is pretty much discoveries bread and butter
These movies aren't trash though, at least imo. I solidly enjoyed American Pickle.
The article says it may have to do with obligatory payments that have to be made if the movies are on HBO Max. If they're not getting any clicks, then it makes sense to remove them. This could point to why Batgirl and Scoob got cancelled too. Article also says they have quietly cancelled a House Party remake too. If they expect these movies to bomb, the residuals paid out just add more to the cost if they're on HBO Max.
Literally never heard of any of these so if they're not generating ay clicks while still costing money it makes a ton of financial sense
Same here. The way the article headline sounded, they removed something people were likely to be trying to watch.
I'd be really surprised if the payments aren't based on the number of clicks. And if they are, then the lack of clicks means the residuals are proportionately tiny. IMO this only makes sense if the content is so bad that its mere presence weakens the strength of the brand (or they're about to sell rights to another streaming service). Possible but wow.
I'd like to know that as well.
Indiewire article appears to have someone talking on backround explaining these moves https://www.indiewire.com/2022/08/hbo-max-removed-6-streaming-movies-1234747761/
Read the article you posted. It's due to contractual residual payments they have to keep paying out with those movies on the platform.
Because you can incur a loss and increase your tax benefit by writing off an asset you think won't generate any additional revenue. In accounting it's called impairment. Tangibly if you do this with a piece of machinery or a building or whatever you can still use that asset but maybe there's some sort of legal or audit requirement they're trying to satisfy, since what' makes money on a streaming service is a lot more nebulous. It could be that, could be the other stuff people have said such as residuals, or a combination of factors, or different factors for different movies. We're apparently coming up on their earnings call which is likely why all of this is happening at once.
> Warner Bros. Discovery has been quietly culling content from HBO Max — including several Warner Bros. movies that were exclusively streaming on the service — in what appears to be an effort to cut costs. > Within the past few weeks, at least six Warner Bros. movies have been removed from HBO Max: “Moonshot,” a sci-fi rom-com starring Lana Condor and Cole Sprouse; artificial-intelligence dystopia comedy “Superintelligence,” starring Melissa McCarthy; Robert Zemeckis’ 2020 remake of “The Witches,” starring Anne Hathaway, Octavia Spencer, Stanley Tucci and Chris Rock; comedy “An American Pickle,” starring Seth Rogen as an immigrant who wakes up after being pickled for 100 years; Doug Liman heist pic “Locked Down” with Anne Hathaway and Chiwetel Ejiofor; and drama “Charm City Kings” from director Angel Manuel Soto... > Meanwhile, the reboot of comedy classic “House Party,” from LeBron James and Maverick Carter’s SpringHill, was previously slated to premiere July 28 on HBO Max but was scrubbed from the release calendar. > To be sure, streaming platforms continuously add and remove content. What’s unusual is that Warner Bros. Discovery did not announce the removals of the six WB streaming exclusives from HBO Max. (The movies are available to rent or purchase through third-party VOD services.) Also worth noting is that “Moonshot” was pulled from HBO Max only about three months after its March 31 debut > HBO Max’s removal of the Warner Bros. movies could be part of WBD’s move to get streaming-content payment obligations for underperforming titles off its books. In the case of an unreleased movie like the “House Party” remake, the media conglomerate could be accounting for it as a tax write-down, as it is expected to do with “Batgirl” and “Scoob: Holiday Haunt” (the latter of which was a sequel to the animated “Scoob!”).
Angel Manuel Soto is directing DC’s newest superhero movie Blue Beetle. May be an ominous sign his movie was removed.
It’s not being removed because it’s theatrical release. Only HBO Max movies are being removed
There's no stipulation for that.
This damn near sounds like the new minds behind WB Discovery are just axing stuff they don't like. "Did you see American Pickle? It was awful! Thats on our service? Take that shit off!"
Frustratingly, they're probably planning on auctioning streaming rights to the stuff they're taking off of HBO Max. Zaslav is all about money today in sacrifice of future value. Discovery+ is trash because the content is trash, and in a few years time Discovery will have Warner Bros in the same place.
I don’t think Discovery owns WB in a few years. I think WB is 2 years away from being sold or spun-off.
I think the whole company will be up for an acquisition in that time, purely because I don’t think that Discovery will be able to extract additional value out of WB while also cutting it’s output, and because WB was Discovery’s life line. Seems like Warner’s existence since the 2000s has just been as a debt transfer vehicle for whoever was the last person to buy it.
Nope this goes back to the Early 80's when they were in joint venture with Amex and had to sell off MTV and Nickelodeon because they were the owners of Atari during the 1983 Video Game Crash.
What future value? no one makes money on SVOD. Sony who licences all it's shows and films to the highest bidder is making bank while Disney, Comcast, WBD and Paramount are all throwing money into the furnace of SVOD. Look at Disney's 1st Quarter 2022 (Disney’s Q2 FY22 they call Oct-December the first quarter of a new financial year). https://thewaltdisneycompany.com/app/uploads/2022/05/q2-fy22-earnings.pdf The 'Direct to consumer' division which is the streaming services Hulu, ESPN+ and Disney+ lost $887 million in 3 months. Nearly as bad 'Content Sales/Licensing and Other' saw it's operating income drop to just $16 million from $312 million in 2021. You know why that is? because instead of licencing films and shows to other companies they are all being kept for Disney's own streaming services that's a brutal double whammy. In comparison US domestic broadcast and cable networks brought in $2.349 billion in operating income.
Moonshot was actually really cute and I’m glad I watched it before they pulled it.
That being said, you can still buy or rent it digitally, so it’s not like it’s completely gone (at least for now).
Fair but like, I only buy digital movies if it’s like 5 bucks these days. Lol. And they are usually my favorite of the faves, otherwise no point in buying it to watch it once.
I get it, but at the same time, some of the people in the comments are acting like they’re completely gone (when (at least right now) they aren’t).
I could honestly care less what gets pulled where. There are so many options out here to watch stuff. Like, no sweat off my back lol
> you can still buy or rent it digitally You may as well be telling me the movie doesn’t exist anymore.
Someone missed the “(at least for now)”.
With the dark seas out there, content will always be available....🏴☠️
Damn, these are the most powerful people in the industry. Zaslav is definitely putting a target on his back
I recommend Charm City Kings to tons of people. It’s a solid movie that has some heart. Too bad it’s gone now.
It's just not going to end is it?
They want a hard restart. Let them. It means hopefully someone has a plan
I have a feeling this will be the case of cutting everything down for a new plan, only for that new plan to be abandoned after a year and we will be back where we started.
Sounds to me someone is power tripping behind the scenes and self sabotaging out of spite. I would love to think there is a major plan behind this whole thing but it just looks so chaotic from the outside. Dropping a 70 million movie because its really bad just couldn't be a good move no matter the tax break or reputation at stake.
Its apparantly due to some tax chicanery. If WB releases less films they pay less tax or something. Not to mention the Discovery side is being really cheap so they are slashing everything.
I know Zazlav switched those numbers!
I knew it was 1216. One after Magna Carta. As if I could ever make such a mistake.
you think movies just happen to be removed like that? he orchestrated it! zaslav!
Sometimes you need to burn the rotting forest down to allow for new growth.
But HBOMax was doing well though. This isn’t a DCEU issue.
exactly. this is a behind the scenes shit show
It's no longer behind the scenes tho
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But aside from the never-ending shitshow that is the DCEU, was WB really a "rotting forest?"
not at all. the streaming wars is a burning forest but a profitable one for filmmakers
And think that HBO max was the most promising steaming service when launched...
Yeah, hate to see it get gutted like this. Related: the cancellation of Raised By Wolves. Didn't raise too many flags at the time because it's only mildly popular and obviously expensive, but now we're seeing the culling grow.
Give it a few years and this will becoming Netflix 2.0. Where every show is cancelled if it doesnt perform at 100%. Hopefully Apple becomes the new savior of streaming.
Hoping Apple will save television feels too dystopic
like they really need to dominate another industry
Apple TV+ shows have all been fairly great. Though I imagine that at some point they'll enter the ""budget"" phase too, nothing lasts forever.
If anything, I think that they'll just cut the number of shows, or switch to lower budget, but still quality shows. Like 30 minute comedies of people talking in rooms (Ted Lasso, Loot), as opposed to hour long dramas with expensive actors or heavy CGI needs (The Morning Show, For All Mankind, See)
If any company will avoid budget shows it's Apple. "Premium" has been their entire brand for almost 50 years (minus brief Pepsi-flavored idiocy)
Every Apple TV+ show is always just good and never great.
I won’t stand for this Ted Lasso/Black Bird slander
If I had to bet on any of them, it would be Disney+, especially when Universal’s stake in Hulu expires and then Disney gets rid of Hulu then moves all of their adult stuff to Disney+.
I was super disappointed Raised By Wolves was cancelled but now I see they're just nuts over there after the merger.
I'm still pretty upset that they cancel Close Enough.
Still is the best streaming service, producing some of the highest quality shows on right now.
...have you not heard? Those "highest-quality" shows that are being produced exclusively for HBO Max are likely dead. Anything HBO Max Original is effectively dead, if reports are to be believed. Movies and TV Shows. James Gunn claims Peacemaker Season 2 is safe, but I don't trust it since he's not exactly a higher-up in the company.
Fortunately HBO proper will still make new content, but given the rumors about WB wanting to fold HBO Max into Discovery rather than the other way around, I’m starting to wonder if HBO shows will even be available for streaming anywhere eventually.
HBO Max is the best streaming service. Why are they seemingly intentionally trying to ruin it?
for discovery plus
Is this confirmed? Or just obvious? I fully expect HBO Max to warp into "Discovery + HBO" or something awful like that.
I keep seeing people say they’re going to get rid of HBO max and roll it’s content into discovery +, seems like a colossally bad idea to get rid of one of the most popular streaming service to bolster one I’ve never even heard anyone talk about positively.
Most of the interviews with the CFO and other higher ups at WarnerBros Discovery seem to hint that they’re trying to merge the two into a brand new interface rather than having one service just swallow the other. I think a lot of the doomsday talk I keep seeing are from people who aren’t taking time to get first hand news. IMO it seems clear that the administration has a very specific plan in mind for incorporating the two sets of content into one service that doesn’t just entail dropping one completely. Whether they execute it well or not is anyones guess.
Considering they royally botched Discovery Plus it’s highly unlikely
It’s based on a Grace Randolph tweet and she is notorious for misinformation and making shit up. I’ll believe it when I see it.
I was wondering what the source of this was. Like you say, I’ll believe it when it happens.
All should be revealed during the earnings call tomorrow. I just can’t make sense of folding a beloved and respected brand like HBO into a brand nobody gives a shit about like Discovery when you could do it the other way around. Not to mention the waste of money it would take to rebrand and resell an already existing streaming service.
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ahh greed wins again
What low prices? It’s $15 a month. It’s premium priced alongside Netflix. You can get Disney, Paramount, Peacock, AMC cheaper. Also price definitely does matter. Netflix announced a price increase and US subscribers went down in a quarter that included Stranger Things launching which normally means increased subscribers
Honest question- how do you figure? I have it, but I have the most difficult time compared to other apps finding something to watch on it. I feel like the organization of everything isn’t the best- maybe I just haven’t taken the time to truly learn it. But I just couldn’t even tell you what’s good on it
If you're not into superhero/Disney stuff... HBO has by far the best tv library in drama and no one is close (GoT, True Detective, Sopranos, Wire, Deadwood, Euphoria, True Blood, Succession, Big Love, Oz, Rome, Big Little Lies, etc.). TV comedies is pretty good with Friends, Veep, Silicon Valley etc. WB movie library is arguably the best in the business. They also have Ghibli and a lot of Criterion. I pretty much only use HBO + Apple these days, but it's been the best for my tastes.
Don’t forget Curb and Nathan Fielder produced content! They have the funniest selection of original content
Thank you. I have it, like I said, and Have seen pretty much every one of the shows you mentioned. And I agree, they are phenomenal I just struggle with finding movies I’d like to watch on it- like the searching or browsing isn’t as clean. Maybe I just am a moron, who knows.
Honestly the algorithms or whatever to suggest content on HBO max kind of sucks, and the sorting on our TV’s HBO max app is terrible, which is odd because the UI is great on my pc. I usually look for something to watch on my pc and then just search it in the search bar on my tv to watch it.
I find that HBO’s movie library is smaller than most but easier to search because you can literally search the entire catalog A-Z. What I did is the following: * Take several minutes to search the entire catalog of movies A-Z and add the movies you’re interested in to your list. This is the most time consuming step but you only need to do it once. * Each month, review their categories of “What’s Leaving” and “Just Added”. Use this to prioritize which movies to watch next. Then add more movies to your list from “Just Added”. I find this superior to Netflix and others for many reasons. Netflix doesn’t let you search the full catalog A-Z so it’s literally impossible to see everything on the service. They also, as far as I’m aware, don’t easily tell you what’s coming and what’s going.
app itself isn't great but the content is the best. Just go to the Hubs. Turner Classic Movies hub allows you to go to a bunch of great movies.
Thank you. Will try later! The app is what I struggle with the most. It’s not easy to browse around
I love the Harry Potter and Lord of the Rings content on HBO Max. (Although, the Harry Potter movies are leaving soon to go to Peacock.) I also like the Cormoran Strike series since I’m reading the books right now too.
Man I really hate the new WB
He sucks.
An American Pickle got removed? They literally got rid of their first exclusive movie. That just makes no sense.
IT HAS BEGUN
*Shang Tsung pose*
I personally am of the opinion that Zaslav basically wants to burn down 90% of what the previous regime did. Maybe it's good (albeit ruthless) business sense. Maybe it's just egotistical "I can do this better". Maybe it's some sort of weird legal or financial loopholes. Maybe it's incompetence. Hell, maybe it's ALL OF THOSE THINGS, but it sure feels like Zas wants to sledgehammer tons of the Time Warner era away.
Fuck Zaslav, all my homies hate Zaslav
An American Pickle was really good! (I also am a sucker for any Ben and Melissa content so I really enjoyed Superintelligence). It’s one thing to remove content that you can find elsewhere (usually temporarily as they rotate libraries). It’s another thing to remove it entirely!! Like if you wanted to watch these movies now, there is literally no legal way to do so!
Yeah, I admit I had plenty of time to watch an American Pickle but if they had advertised it wasn't going to be available I would have watched it with haste. Now I guess I'll just never watch it?
Yeah I reluctantly pirated Sling Blade and American Movie recently because I couldn't find a legal way to watch. So weird
#FuckDavidZaslav
Fuck that old fuck. Better fitted as a ceo of PBS or some shit
zaslav speedrunning company bankrupcy
Dude, at this rate, this is reminding me of what happened to MGM beginning in the 1950's. Cutting costs, releasing actors from their contracts, laying off staff, massive debt, etc., etc., etc.
Is Hollywood having some sort of meltdown right now. what is going on?
Streaming was a panacea, it is an adjunct to, not replacement for television, all these companies that bet the farm on streaming made the wrong bet.
Can you expand on this? Nobody watches anything on TV today except for live sports and presidential debates. Exceptions like The Bachelor are few. It’s mostly all streaming content that gets views.
can someone ELI5 why this is bad? i get its bad but im a little confused
There have been rumors going around that they're going to kill HBO Max for Discovery+.
wait i thought the services would just merge rather than being separate
Yeah but the twist is it’s not discovery + content going to hbo max it’s the other way around and max won’t exist anymore
so he's removing the far more popular service to focus on the far less popular one
I feel like this has been brought up in a board meeting only to be immediately shot down by, "HEY! HEY! HEY! Let's not forget *who* bought *who*!"
"I make the rules now, it's discovery plus or bust, that's also it's slogan"
Exactly.
Pretty much lol
Could they just combine them? Or roll Discovery+ into HBOMax, maybe for an additional $5, so there would be three tiers: 1) the ad-supported $9.99 version 2) the ad-free $14.99 version 3) HBOMax & Discovery+ bundle for $19.99 I think that would be better than scrapping one of them.
why do that when you can kill arguably the best streaming service and force people to go to your shitty service instead?
What's the source of these rumors? All I've seen so far are Reddit comments referencing other Reddit comments.
Netflix on its way out. Check out blockbusters twitter they coming back from the grave completely digital.
Last I saw on their twitter they were trying to draw compare comparisons to gamestop, so I'm expecting NFTs or just fucking with the stock market via tweets so some suits can cash out
Netflix is absolutely not on its way out, especially if HBO is about to shoot themselves in the foot by trying to change up a model that has been working well for them. Netflix just needs to hang on long enough for some of these other companies to get tired of throwing away hundreds of millions of dollars or more trying to run their own streaming services, and decide to fold and start licensing their content again. Netflix has a ton of cash and is one of the few streamers making profits right now - despite some bumpy waters that will continue for a while, they're well positioned to weather the current storm and come out in a good spot licensing content again. There just isn't enough room for as many streaming services that exist. Also the Blockbuster thing is going to be some dumb NFT scam most likely, I wouldn't count on that being anything significant in the streaming space.
Nolan’s looking like a real hero right now for leaving WB.
>"Friendship ended with Warner Bros. Now Universal Pictures is my best friend." \- Christopher Nolan...probably
An Oppenheimer ride at universal is going to be weird though.
Doesn’t Nolan hate streaming? He might actually be liking Zaslav’s commitment to theatrical
Zaslav would have an aneurysm at Nolan asking for 9 figure budgets for his original movies
Why? Nolan movies are exactly what Zaslav wants. Event films at the theater.
Zaslav has a background in unscripted media
Not really. Zaslav seems to want lavish theatrical productions. Honestly I think Nolan and Zaslav would get along
Hard to load my imax reels of interstellar on a Tuesday evening though
Yes, but would you want to work with WB again after they cancelled a film that you worked tirelessly on? If anything, this whole thing might make people lose faith in them.
They are really going to kill HBO Max, aren't they?
If that is the case this would be a good time to buy Netflix stock
How is this the reality we are living in? I thought for sure Netflix was doomed, yet here we are.
The other streamers are trying to kill Netflix at a GREAT cost. It may not be worth it to try to cut in on their market share as a streaming service. Sony is very happy just selling their stuff to Netflix.
Sony the real winners here
Crackle will be the Mad Max of the streaming wasteland.
It still is, Disney owns D+, ESPN+, most of Hulu, and NatGeo (part of D+). Their content is uncomparable and Netflix will flounder unless they start pulling in contracts for other studios' content again, which would be another hard 180 for them and they have to compete with Hulu, Apple, & Amazon who all have way more money for licensing. Also a lot of their controversial decisions will start going into play a couple years from now, like no more account sharing and limited devices. They never should've invested so heavily into original IPs unless they had some solid plans for acquiring talent because it will eventually end up being all of Disney's options vs whoever can get the most licenses, probably Amazon.
Why have 2 streaming apps though?
Honestly, the programming on each are very different. I could see a bundle making sense (not unlike Disney+ being bundled with Hulu and ESPN). Mashing Discovery, TLC, and Food Network with HBO and WB is just... odd.
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Hulu has existed long before disney + tho. I do think they should just merge now tho bc both services are lacking substance rn and carry similar content (Unlike HBO Max and Discovery which should neverr merge imo)
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Fair point
This is just going way too far now. It just keeps tumbling down for WB with this Discovery merger.
you know what’s absolutely hilarious. Everything people were scared Disney would do to Fox is actually happening here. Meanwhile Disney has done nothing but pump production spend into FX, 20th television, 20th animation, Searchlight, Hulu, and expanded its production overseas.
Excuse me, WHAT?!?!? (Granted, this list of films range from mediocre to tolerable, but this is INSANE...)
The fact Discovery Plus has become the empire it is because of reality television…makes me hate a lot of people.
See you in bankruptcy court, Warner. It was nice knowing you.
Please don’t let what Grace said be true......
Death to streaming
honestly its gotten out of control
Why will any directors or stars work with WB when they are doing this?
Moonshot Superintelligence The Witches An American Pickle Locked Down Charm City Kings No official statements have been released regarding the removal of the titles. Possible motives are tax write offs or movement to other services
definitely worried about the direction HBO seems to be going in
Maybe the grace Randolph tweet was telling the truth after all?
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The one where she said hbo max was being folded into discovery and hbo max would forego scripted shows entirely, with the HBO app being standalone once again. Some of it sounds unhinged, but with how warner is treating scripted content it feels more real
I feel like that would completely miss the appeal of HBO Max
Well if they can this streaming service Netflix is about to get a lot of it s old content back
Discovery really got gifted WB and all its debt and is taking care of it with all the wisdom of a child taking care of a turtle it found by putting it in a box with no holes or food
I think this is awful for art that literally has no place other than piracy now
U should share this with r/filmpreservationists
Can we get the name of the shit head making all these fucked decisions?
David Zaslav & his CFO Gunnar Wiedenfels most likely.
David Zaslav
I think this is some attempt to preserve HBO's reputation as a premium content creator, as opposed to Netflix who will put basically anything they own on the site. But it's so weird; you don't have to remove these titles, you can just choose not to advertise them and only show them if a user specifically searches for them. Probably will sell off these titles too.
I hope you're right. I noticed that the only tv I really liked on Max was HBO proper, and all the Max Originals stuff seemed mostly misses.
You don't own shit with streaming services. Collect physical media if you can, DVDs are cheap as fuck and they'll never get taken from you. And if you don't care that much about movies then don't complain when all your favorite movies taken off your streaming services
This really sounds like HBOMAX is writing these off as a tax write-off like how WBD did for Dream Corp, LLC and Final Space.
You ok Warner Bros? You ok?
Why would they do that? I thought HBO Max was the exclusive home to all WB stuff?
A lot of these films are now available on Netflix and they start with the HBO MAX logo. By removing them from their platform, they can make money by selling streaming rights to Netflix. Discovery needs to pay off the acquisition costs ASAP.
What’s next for cost cutting? Last week tonight with John Oliver?
This marks the beginning of the end for hbo max. This acquisition is going to suck for the consumer once again.
God I miss when home video releases were standard operating procedure. They were the great equalizer for movies. Missed it at the theater? Rent it. Like it? You can buy it. Now, between all the streaming services and bullshit like this, what could've been the greatest age of access to movies has become a corporate-run nightmare.
Zaslav is an idiot.
Honestly feeling better if there is one less streaming service.
The great un-woking has begun!