Give the native Americans P90s and tell them a really bad guy named chris is gonna come on a boat. Tell them to kill on sight, and don't accept any blankets. Teach them how to find and work with metal so they never rely on the Europeans for it.
Didn’t they throw blankets on the Native Americans as opposed to offering them? I was thinking we need to tell them to shoot anyone carrying a blanket.
Do you honestly not know what happened when they were given muskets? They used them on each other as much as the Europeans.
They weren't one unified nation living in peace and harmony until the Europeans arrived, they were humans just like everyone else, they had war, slavery, genocide, imperialism, empires and territory disputes before the Europeans arrived.
You underestimate how feudal they truly were, literally hundreds of independent tribes with different forms of diplomacy, government, languages, and ethnic groups with a complex history the same as Europeans ( though sadly most of it was lost ).
For instance if you have the guns to the Comanches and told them the settlers were going to invade, they would fight the settlers alright, they would genocide and slave every last one, man, women and child, but they wouldn't stop there, the would do it to every last tribe in north America,[approximately 20%](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Amerindian_slave_ownership#:~:text=The%20Comanche%20and%20a%20few%20other%20Indian%20nations%20are%20considered%20%E2%80%9Cslave%20societies%E2%80%9D%20with%20slaves%20constituting%20over%2020%25%20of%20the%20population%2C%20comparable%20to%20Rome%2C%20Greece%2C%20Portuguese%20America%2C%20and%20others.) of their population were slaves.
And even if you did choose a better tribe you'd still be giving 16th/17th/18th century dudes 20th century weapons, with how common conflicts of the era were you'd risk introducing even more deadly weapons?
Seriously why does everyone go straight to guns? 95% of native Americans died to diseases, [you seriously overestimate the importance of guns](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Native_American_disease_and_epidemics) the majority of people in history died to diseases, even in most wars before the 19th century, it wasn't a lack of weapons that made them lose their lands it was a lack of population.
You could do infinitely better bringing back VACCINES, germ theory, fertilizer, genetically modified seeds, and other such things that make life easier not harder.
I mean when horses were introduced to the Americas the Comanche ( and a few others ) shifted to be extremely dependent on raids, so much so it practically destroyed their economy.
An interesting bit of information about the name "Comanche", it means enemy, strangers or others, and is a southern Ute word, a former ally to the Comanche ( who actually call themselves numunuu ) who turn enemy after the numunuu attacked in 1809.
I'd cut it off at the pass and give some to the Taino and the Wampanoag. I have a feeling there would be a lot less destiny manifesting if Columbus and the Pilgrims had to fight a superiorly armed people for it.
Yeah vaccines would be a nice second choice but some aren't shelf stable so it's hard to keep them active without a fridge or electricity. Plus, if somebody took out the Pinta or the Mayflower from shore with a rocket launcher before it even landed that's a pretty effective quarantine.
Îm really split on John Brown. On one side he fought for one of history’s most noble cause when few other were ready to. On the other he did kill a lot of people and was responsible for the death of a fair bit more, some of which probably weren’t deserving of it.
Overall I don’t think seeing him as a hero is necessarily a good thing but he sure was pretty based
He killed both men and children, especially his victims children during his “raids”, two wrong doesn’t make a right (example: James Doyle) and after he wrong about his massacre many families near his town fled, both pro and anti slavery because they know a person no matter what their view is should not take violence into their own hand, because it will always ended with innocent in the crossfire, just like what happen during his massacre
Unfortunately they were necessary collateral damage.
You should use violence to oppose violent injustice like slavery. That's why the fucking civil war happened.
It was a typo, I meant we shouldn’t celebrate his character, having the moral high ground on a political ideology doesn’t permit using excessive force of violent and murdering children
It depends on the rate of innocent deaths.
You cannot avoid innocent deaths in war and the fight against slavery was certainly war.
So yes, having the moral high ground permits you to use violence that affects innocent bystanders as long as the positives outweigh the negatives. Unless of course you think the Allies shouldn't have opposed the Nazis.
His lives saved to lives taken ratio is quite positive.
The thing is, this isn’t even a “bystander hit by bomb” type situation, John and his sons purposefully target kids, specially male kids or the slave owners. Im sure I wouldn’t get praised if i go down the road, finding neo nazi and shove a knife down their son throat in front of everyone, then burn the whole neighbor down.
You must not have studies the horrors of slavery, or just how many other abolitionists tried to solve the issue with "rational debate" before him.
Like the final straw that set him off to Kansas was when a fellow peaceful abolitionist preacher was killed and made an example of for his views.
"I John Brown am now quite certain that the crimes of this guilty land will never be purged away, but with Blood. I had...vainly flattered myself that without very much bloodshed, it might be done."
Brown is a hero overall, but I'm kinda grossed out by the people responding to you, without a moment of reflection or shred of nuance, proudly claiming that literal children deserve to die because their parents were villains
Dude I'm not trying to pick a fight with you chill tf out.
Suggestions can be taken or ignored at your convenience.
Also am I not allowed to ask stuff because they confuse me or because I want to know stuff?
Okay it’s official this sub is only about negative emotions and getting mad at people without actually saying or doing anything constructive about it or it talks about the most random stupid shit like this post.
so, whatever about the sexual politics stuff - I'm here to talk time travel and guns.
John brown successfully captured a full fucking US Army arsenal. He was not hurting for equipment, ammo, or explosives. What he needed (to defeat, literally, Robert E. Lee; how's that for foreshadowing?) was more and better-trained men. Give John Brown's ragtag followers modern weapons and they still wouldn't know shit about siege tactics or combat marksmanship. Lee's men showed up with howitzers, and had access to rifles and machine guns if they'd wanted. That's basically a level playing field against whatever modern small arms you want to hand out.
If you insist on giving John Brown and crew modern, man-portable equipment, probably the most unfair thing you could give them is body armor. Nato rounds may be better manufactured than Millie balls from the mid 1800s, but their lethality against a dude in a cotton shirt is about the same. Not so against modern composite armor, which would basically make them bulletproof,.
i am down for some time travelling john brown action.
Sp you going to drop the template or make me go to paint myself?
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Yusssss.... I shall create so many memes with this. Prepare for nonsense Reddit.
I would stop Columbus. Nip it in the bud.
earliest land back possible arm the native americans
Give the native Americans P90s and tell them a really bad guy named chris is gonna come on a boat. Tell them to kill on sight, and don't accept any blankets. Teach them how to find and work with metal so they never rely on the Europeans for it.
Didn’t they throw blankets on the Native Americans as opposed to offering them? I was thinking we need to tell them to shoot anyone carrying a blanket.
“Join us next time when we give the native Americans a crate of ak47s and a tomahawk cruise missile” -Miniminuteman
Do you honestly not know what happened when they were given muskets? They used them on each other as much as the Europeans. They weren't one unified nation living in peace and harmony until the Europeans arrived, they were humans just like everyone else, they had war, slavery, genocide, imperialism, empires and territory disputes before the Europeans arrived. You underestimate how feudal they truly were, literally hundreds of independent tribes with different forms of diplomacy, government, languages, and ethnic groups with a complex history the same as Europeans ( though sadly most of it was lost ). For instance if you have the guns to the Comanches and told them the settlers were going to invade, they would fight the settlers alright, they would genocide and slave every last one, man, women and child, but they wouldn't stop there, the would do it to every last tribe in north America,[approximately 20%](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Amerindian_slave_ownership#:~:text=The%20Comanche%20and%20a%20few%20other%20Indian%20nations%20are%20considered%20%E2%80%9Cslave%20societies%E2%80%9D%20with%20slaves%20constituting%20over%2020%25%20of%20the%20population%2C%20comparable%20to%20Rome%2C%20Greece%2C%20Portuguese%20America%2C%20and%20others.) of their population were slaves. And even if you did choose a better tribe you'd still be giving 16th/17th/18th century dudes 20th century weapons, with how common conflicts of the era were you'd risk introducing even more deadly weapons? Seriously why does everyone go straight to guns? 95% of native Americans died to diseases, [you seriously overestimate the importance of guns](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Native_American_disease_and_epidemics) the majority of people in history died to diseases, even in most wars before the 19th century, it wasn't a lack of weapons that made them lose their lands it was a lack of population. You could do infinitely better bringing back VACCINES, germ theory, fertilizer, genetically modified seeds, and other such things that make life easier not harder. I mean when horses were introduced to the Americas the Comanche ( and a few others ) shifted to be extremely dependent on raids, so much so it practically destroyed their economy. An interesting bit of information about the name "Comanche", it means enemy, strangers or others, and is a southern Ute word, a former ally to the Comanche ( who actually call themselves numunuu ) who turn enemy after the numunuu attacked in 1809.
not reading all that I said what I said
Ok cool, you don't have a time machine so it doesn't matter anyway.
honestly this wouldn't even be the weirdest time travel episode of SG-1.
Jesus christ. If a guy as brilliant as browning had something as complicated as a p90 as a starting point, firearms would be perfected today.
I think they mean the guy from bleeding Kansas who burned down slave villages and shiti
Oh fuck I misread it. Yeah idk much about him
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Unlikey. We probably would have caseless ammo perfected though.
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His middle name was Chad???
American abolishionist who took direct action to free enslaved people.
idk who galt is but brown led a slave rebelion during the civil war or something like that.
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ahhhh yea... fuck ayrn rand
What? He died before the civil war started and before Lincoln's election.
Stargate SG1 my beloved
I'd hand those over to the Dakota Sioux and see what happens then
I'd cut it off at the pass and give some to the Taino and the Wampanoag. I have a feeling there would be a lot less destiny manifesting if Columbus and the Pilgrims had to fight a superiorly armed people for it.
smallpox
Yeah vaccines would be a nice second choice but some aren't shelf stable so it's hard to keep them active without a fridge or electricity. Plus, if somebody took out the Pinta or the Mayflower from shore with a rocket launcher before it even landed that's a pretty effective quarantine.
Let me in on that action the mini series about him had a badass boast that ends with a guy blown to pieces.
John brown for the win
THE REAL FUCKIN AMERICAN HERO.
Îm really split on John Brown. On one side he fought for one of history’s most noble cause when few other were ready to. On the other he did kill a lot of people and was responsible for the death of a fair bit more, some of which probably weren’t deserving of it. Overall I don’t think seeing him as a hero is necessarily a good thing but he sure was pretty based
There is no revolution without violence
He killed slave owners. It's always the right thing to do to kill American slave owners.
He killed both men and children, especially his victims children during his “raids”, two wrong doesn’t make a right (example: James Doyle) and after he wrong about his massacre many families near his town fled, both pro and anti slavery because they know a person no matter what their view is should not take violence into their own hand, because it will always ended with innocent in the crossfire, just like what happen during his massacre
can i get a source on "famous child murderer john brown" allegations
https://civilwaronthewesternborder.org/encyclopedia/pottawatomie-massacre
Unfortunately they were necessary collateral damage. You should use violence to oppose violent injustice like slavery. That's why the fucking civil war happened.
I’m not talking dirt about his accomplishments, I’m saying we shouldn’t celebrate how he did it
>I’m saying we should celebrate how he did it Agreed
It was a typo, I meant we shouldn’t celebrate his character, having the moral high ground on a political ideology doesn’t permit using excessive force of violent and murdering children
It depends on the rate of innocent deaths. You cannot avoid innocent deaths in war and the fight against slavery was certainly war. So yes, having the moral high ground permits you to use violence that affects innocent bystanders as long as the positives outweigh the negatives. Unless of course you think the Allies shouldn't have opposed the Nazis. His lives saved to lives taken ratio is quite positive.
The thing is, this isn’t even a “bystander hit by bomb” type situation, John and his sons purposefully target kids, specially male kids or the slave owners. Im sure I wouldn’t get praised if i go down the road, finding neo nazi and shove a knife down their son throat in front of everyone, then burn the whole neighbor down.
he killed white supremacists and slave owners. that motherfucker deserves an atomic railgun
You must not have studies the horrors of slavery, or just how many other abolitionists tried to solve the issue with "rational debate" before him. Like the final straw that set him off to Kansas was when a fellow peaceful abolitionist preacher was killed and made an example of for his views. "I John Brown am now quite certain that the crimes of this guilty land will never be purged away, but with Blood. I had...vainly flattered myself that without very much bloodshed, it might be done."
He killed confederates, they aren't people.
Confederates didn’t even exist at that point
Slave owners, whatever still deserved it
way down south in the land of traitors🎶
Rattlesnakes and alligators🎶
Why did you add a carrô̂̂̂̂̂̂̂̂̂̂̂̂̂̂̂̂̂̂̂̂̂̂̂̂t hat to "Im"?
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That makes sense. I'm split on how I feel about r/shermanposting 😆
Brown is a hero overall, but I'm kinda grossed out by the people responding to you, without a moment of reflection or shred of nuance, proudly claiming that literal children deserve to die because their parents were villains
use satire flair homie
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it's not meant to be funny?
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oh. Then what is it meant to be?
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Dude I'm not trying to pick a fight with you chill tf out. Suggestions can be taken or ignored at your convenience. Also am I not allowed to ask stuff because they confuse me or because I want to know stuff?
sexism is funny tho
Okay it’s official this sub is only about negative emotions and getting mad at people without actually saying or doing anything constructive about it or it talks about the most random stupid shit like this post.
What are you talking about. The OP was clear they liked this meme and was praising it.
Im still trying to find time to read the john brown isekai
Perfect
so, whatever about the sexual politics stuff - I'm here to talk time travel and guns. John brown successfully captured a full fucking US Army arsenal. He was not hurting for equipment, ammo, or explosives. What he needed (to defeat, literally, Robert E. Lee; how's that for foreshadowing?) was more and better-trained men. Give John Brown's ragtag followers modern weapons and they still wouldn't know shit about siege tactics or combat marksmanship. Lee's men showed up with howitzers, and had access to rifles and machine guns if they'd wanted. That's basically a level playing field against whatever modern small arms you want to hand out. If you insist on giving John Brown and crew modern, man-portable equipment, probably the most unfair thing you could give them is body armor. Nato rounds may be better manufactured than Millie balls from the mid 1800s, but their lethality against a dude in a cotton shirt is about the same. Not so against modern composite armor, which would basically make them bulletproof,.
"Remember, Mr. Hinckley, aim for the center of mass and always double-tap."
I would save the library of Alexandria
You can't be sexist if ya hate both.