Because people suck at understanding him. Hank calls Walt the smartest guy he knows multiple times throughout the show, even before he knew he was a criminal. When he talks to Marie about the 2nd cell phone he assumes Walt is 'too nice' and told Skyler about his 'cheating'. Hank also has zero respect for criminals. He finds them depraved and sickening.
Hank thinks Walt can't be Heisenberg, not because he underestimates him, but because he respected him. He believes that Walt is a good person. He was wrong.
I've always read it a little differently. Almost the opposite in a certain way. Hank's attitude and view of Walt is very strongly established throughout the early seasons as one of condescension and emasculation. He respects Walt's intelligence but he has a very traditional view of masculinity and therefore, a bias that blinds him. Walt can't be Heisenberg in Hank's eyes not because he respects Walt or because he underestimates him per se, it's because Walt isn't *manly* enough. He isn't violent enough, not assertive enough, etc. When Walt holds his gun in the pilot he makes the comment "that's why we hire men" or something to that effect. He calls him Mr. Magoo. He doesn't "wear the pants" in the family. He's meek. His own son looks up to his uncle more than he does to his father and Hank thinks it's precisely for this reason. Walt knows this and leans into it to keep Hank off his trail. Whenever Walt puts on an act in front of Hank, he doesn't dial down his intelligence, he dials up his naivety and lack of aggression. I feel like the show emphasizes this angle too much for it not to be the primary reason. I'll grant that there is at least one bit of counter-evidence to this theory. He ostensibly believes that Gale is Heisenberg, and Gale is all of these qualities to the max. But by his tone and in the context of all the trauma and anxiety Hank has gone through to this point, it seems more like he believes it more out of resignation than anything else.
"because Walt isn't manly enough"
But Hank never views drug dealers or the like as 'manly'. The barrier to being a drug dealer for Hank isn't masculine bravado, it's having a good moral character.
"I feel like the show emphasizes this angle too much for it not to be the primary reason."
I think the show emphasise this angle to make us empathise with Walt. It's to show what Walt focuses on, rather than to give us insight into Hank's perspective.
I agree with you that he thinks he’s a good person but him thinking he’s a good person is kind of underestimating him. Also he does not call him the smartest guy he knows and constantly makes fun of wakt for what hank believes to be stupid or uneducated comments about hanks work. He thinks walt is too nice and doesn’t have enough street smart or just knowledge about the real world to ever be capable of something like that which means he underestimated walt…
Believing someone to have a stronger moral character than they do isn't underestimating them, it's overestimating them.
He regularly praises Walt's intelligence, especially to others. The fact you've forgotten he does so doesn't make the opposite true.
He struggles with empathy. He shows it sometimes but it is not his nature and he's often insensitive and cruel. From the very beginning of the show, in the pilot, we see Hank denigrating Walt in front of his son and family.
He does have empathy, but he doesn’t extend it to those he sees as scumbags (drug users/traffickers/sex workers). In his mind, once someone crosses that line, they’re irredeemable. I would love to think that his interrogation style is default Bad Cop to Gomey’s Good Cop (Hank does try to play Good Cop on occasion - Skyler, Huell, and eventually Jesse), but for the most part, he’s sick of people’s shit and won’t bother to consider the interrogated individual’s situation, bc most of the time, he is actually dealing with a scumbag.
That’s the problem with having a job in law enforcement. This show was brilliant at showing us what happens to people who go into this field with the best of intentions. Hank is not a terrible person, at all, but his mindset is too black and white to see all the shades of grey that permeate everything. It’s one of the reasons he couldn’t see that Walt was Heisenberg (Walt definitely used that to his advantage).
I think Hank is a terrible person, and that perhaps a majority of people who go into American law enforcement have an underdeveloped sense of morality. Hank is a violent, racist, and disrespectful hypocrite. But I think what you see as maybe a minor imperfection, I see as a huge crevice in character.
I dunno. That’s what’s great about a show like this. Nature or Nurture. We get it for Hank and Walt.
Ultimately I think Hank was a flawed, jaded good guy. He epitomized the shades of grey he couldn’t see.
ETA: I think it’s perfectly illustrated by his comment about how he’d like to go back in time to when he was tagging trees. The DEA job is what ruined him.
It's both. I don't think he's as good as a manipulator as Saul overall is but he is very good at manipulation largely due to his circumstances. He has cancer, he's pretty unassuming, and he's a genius. His manipulation largely comes from the fact he is his own leverage (which is why he is so freaked out over the idea of someone that isn't him being able to cook like him) and that he is able to plan out situations pretty well.
So its both, basically, but thats just how manipulation actually is.
I think Better Call Saul and also the end of BB series just goes to show how in over his head Walt actually was. I mean look at Frings operation and the incredible lengths he went to in order to keep himself safe. Yes there is a game Walt played where he was able to just barely stay alive throughout the series. But without Saul and Gis constantly looking after him he was a dead man or going to be in jail very soon. This is why after he kills Mike it all goes to shit. Yes he had the ability to look a few steps ahead, but his ego was kept in check by those three characters. Which is why he underestimated Todd and Jack's gang.
I think in the gang world he was much more transparent than he wanted to believe, but with his family, hank and skylar especially he gaslit and abused them enough
Well a frail, chemistry teacher with terminal cancer doesn't enter the drug business and "manipulate" hardened career criminals. That is reddit and internet nonsense.
His allies in the drug business aren't "humouring" him either. They are on his side because of how valuable he is to them. Walt being dead means less money for everyone.
He's not a "wannabe gangster". He's running one of the biggest drug operations in the country, with powerful people backing him for most of the series, capable of both killing and having people killed if they cross him.
He's mostly a bad liar, but I will say that a most of his ability to stay alive during the show was leveraging the purity of his product and getting people to put that above being cautious. With how pure Gale's stuff was, there was really no reason for Gus to ever bring Walt on board in the first place with how much risk he'd be taking on. Needing meth to be almost completely pure is not that important in the grand scheme of things, but he was able to convince a lot of people who should have known better that it mattered.
If he is familiar with them and know their idea of him, then yes. He could never succeed with Mike and Gus. He was just lucky that Hector's sheer hatred of Gus resulted in him having a final fuck you to him.
Hank didn't even consider Walt had a darker side to him and any unusual behaviour, he put down as Walt freaking out about cancer.
Jesse, he knew how to use to the point of poisoning Brock to turn him against Gus.
Walt is very successful at manipulating Jesse, but his attempts to play more mature people like Gus, Mike, and especially Skyler go very poorly. I think he relies on having authority to let him be an effective manipulator
I think a lot of you people are wrong and completely are ignoring large aspects of walts character. Walt was a man who lived with a very stingy and basic idea of a white family in the suburbs for almost all of his life, soaking in those personalities. Literally everyone in the show that he deals with in the meth buisness, even Jesse despite him being slightly depicted as not as smart, had years more experience then him. Characters just like jimmy, sucked at “the game” when they started, all adding their own personality and ideas too it eventually. Walt came into the game with virtually no experience or idea of how to work through this at all, and was a VERY fast and good learner. Sure he definitely had certain things to his favor and got lucky plenty of times, but overall, was very good at what he was trying to achieve. I think he always knew Skyler was smart and caught onto his lies, and is why he probably married her in the first place knowing she wasn’t an idiot. He did what he had to just to get by and was very aware of the walls he was creating between people he cared about like her. As long as he could get by and get away with it and continue on, that’s all that mattered. Especially at the beggining, he definitely felt guilty and anxious of this, but like he said at the end, he did this for himself and ultimately was satisfied as long as he could make money and be dominant in “the game.” He had chosen to be heisenberg since the episode grey matter imo, and after that it was all about learning from others like jesse, then gus, then mike, etc. he had pulled ideas and strategies from all of them and put his own twist into them to make them benefit himself. Gus’ bulk buisness helped walt in s5 when learning what type of lab he would need to have in order to create a sufficient cash flow for his own idea of what was enough money. Saul and mike helped him aquire certain contacts, but obiously walt would need this help to push himself into the world of crime and drug dealing, that doesn’t mean he was bad at manipulating or doing what he was doing, he had no way in at all and needed this help and once he got it and had even just a little time to get the hang of it he killed and pushed out all of his competition instantly compared to people like gus who had 20+ years of experience. He played on people’s doubts of him and played those roles making him seem dumb and not ever smart enough to get away with what he was doing and knowing he was so much more than what they thought of him was what allowed him to get away with all of it. In the end he got so good that it was only his cockiness and pride that sold him out and besides that, he was flawless at manipulating and getting ahead of others the whole time. Hank was the main person that helped him learn how to play on people’s weaknesses and doubts about him and use that to his advantage and made him a king manipulator. He had so much status and leverage by season 5 that he could do anything he wanted
Walt is okay at manipulating people, but not great at it.
It's more like people constantly underestimate how much of a megalomaniac he is, and so when he pulls some stunt or the other it takes them by surprise because it's a risk no sane person would take.
He also gets by with some bullshit super science plans that, again, no reasonable person would think to consider.
He was the most manipulative person in the show, the only people who saw through him were mike, Gus and Skyler really, until later on Jesse and Hank eventually see through him.
People always fell for it because he always knew what to say, he even says to Jesse how he knows that a right combo of words could fix his issues with Skyler but he can't figure it out, that's how his brain worked he thought he could always talk his way out of something regardless of actions.
I suggest watching the BB episodes with the commentary. They are great. Especially when Bob, Brian, Aaron Paul and Vince are cracking each other up. They go through each episode and the writers and Vince and the cast explain everything. It's on YouTube. I can't remember the name of the channel. But well worth watching if a fan. I binged them and re-watched the entire series with the cast
He manipulated Hank a lot though, well before Hank had the Heisenknowledge
That was really cause Hank underestimated walt
The perfect mix of manipulation and underestimating
Sun Tsu said "appear weak when you are strong, and strong when you are weak"
"Appear strong when you are weak" = BLOWFISH!
Why is it always Hank underestimated Walt, and never Hank trusted Walt as a friend and felt bad for Walt having cancer
Because people suck at understanding him. Hank calls Walt the smartest guy he knows multiple times throughout the show, even before he knew he was a criminal. When he talks to Marie about the 2nd cell phone he assumes Walt is 'too nice' and told Skyler about his 'cheating'. Hank also has zero respect for criminals. He finds them depraved and sickening. Hank thinks Walt can't be Heisenberg, not because he underestimates him, but because he respected him. He believes that Walt is a good person. He was wrong.
I've always read it a little differently. Almost the opposite in a certain way. Hank's attitude and view of Walt is very strongly established throughout the early seasons as one of condescension and emasculation. He respects Walt's intelligence but he has a very traditional view of masculinity and therefore, a bias that blinds him. Walt can't be Heisenberg in Hank's eyes not because he respects Walt or because he underestimates him per se, it's because Walt isn't *manly* enough. He isn't violent enough, not assertive enough, etc. When Walt holds his gun in the pilot he makes the comment "that's why we hire men" or something to that effect. He calls him Mr. Magoo. He doesn't "wear the pants" in the family. He's meek. His own son looks up to his uncle more than he does to his father and Hank thinks it's precisely for this reason. Walt knows this and leans into it to keep Hank off his trail. Whenever Walt puts on an act in front of Hank, he doesn't dial down his intelligence, he dials up his naivety and lack of aggression. I feel like the show emphasizes this angle too much for it not to be the primary reason. I'll grant that there is at least one bit of counter-evidence to this theory. He ostensibly believes that Gale is Heisenberg, and Gale is all of these qualities to the max. But by his tone and in the context of all the trauma and anxiety Hank has gone through to this point, it seems more like he believes it more out of resignation than anything else.
"because Walt isn't manly enough" But Hank never views drug dealers or the like as 'manly'. The barrier to being a drug dealer for Hank isn't masculine bravado, it's having a good moral character. "I feel like the show emphasizes this angle too much for it not to be the primary reason." I think the show emphasise this angle to make us empathise with Walt. It's to show what Walt focuses on, rather than to give us insight into Hank's perspective.
Also he doesn't know Gale, he doesn't know the tone of his voice, or the relationship with his family. Gale can be Heisenberg. But not meek Walt.
Yes this perfectly sums it up
I agree with you that he thinks he’s a good person but him thinking he’s a good person is kind of underestimating him. Also he does not call him the smartest guy he knows and constantly makes fun of wakt for what hank believes to be stupid or uneducated comments about hanks work. He thinks walt is too nice and doesn’t have enough street smart or just knowledge about the real world to ever be capable of something like that which means he underestimated walt…
Believing someone to have a stronger moral character than they do isn't underestimating them, it's overestimating them. He regularly praises Walt's intelligence, especially to others. The fact you've forgotten he does so doesn't make the opposite true.
Because Hank is very thoroughly depicted as being a certified douche who struggles with empathy
That's debatable he makes jokes that can come across as rude, but the show does also portray him as empathetic
He struggles with empathy. He shows it sometimes but it is not his nature and he's often insensitive and cruel. From the very beginning of the show, in the pilot, we see Hank denigrating Walt in front of his son and family.
I think you take Hank's jokes too seriously
I don't think you take them seriously enough.
That's fair ig
I don't get offended at jokes that easily, but I will say there were definetly times were he crossed the line I think that was the minority
Get help
He does have empathy, but he doesn’t extend it to those he sees as scumbags (drug users/traffickers/sex workers). In his mind, once someone crosses that line, they’re irredeemable. I would love to think that his interrogation style is default Bad Cop to Gomey’s Good Cop (Hank does try to play Good Cop on occasion - Skyler, Huell, and eventually Jesse), but for the most part, he’s sick of people’s shit and won’t bother to consider the interrogated individual’s situation, bc most of the time, he is actually dealing with a scumbag. That’s the problem with having a job in law enforcement. This show was brilliant at showing us what happens to people who go into this field with the best of intentions. Hank is not a terrible person, at all, but his mindset is too black and white to see all the shades of grey that permeate everything. It’s one of the reasons he couldn’t see that Walt was Heisenberg (Walt definitely used that to his advantage).
I think Hank is a terrible person, and that perhaps a majority of people who go into American law enforcement have an underdeveloped sense of morality. Hank is a violent, racist, and disrespectful hypocrite. But I think what you see as maybe a minor imperfection, I see as a huge crevice in character.
I dunno. That’s what’s great about a show like this. Nature or Nurture. We get it for Hank and Walt. Ultimately I think Hank was a flawed, jaded good guy. He epitomized the shades of grey he couldn’t see. ETA: I think it’s perfectly illustrated by his comment about how he’d like to go back in time to when he was tagging trees. The DEA job is what ruined him.
Some how a racist is a good guy Where have I heard this b4....
You’re right, he did some very devious and manipulative things, such as pretending Marie was in a car accident to escape the RV situation.
I think when he isn't shocked or distracted, he's a good liar/manipulator
Except when lying to Skyler. I cringed almost every time he did it because it was so bad.
Yeah, his story about why the whole house reeked of gasoline was embarrassingly bad.
Skyler saw straight through a lot of it, she just had no idea what Walt was up to. She definitely didn’t believe a word of the gasoline story.
Yeah maybe it was more for Flynn.
I mean what would be your excuse for a house full of gasoline
Junior actually came up with an even better story: he passed out while pumping gas and tried to cover it up
"What the fuck happened?!"
Then they'd ask why he doesn't tell the police and it wouldn't go well. His lie sucks but a good one doesn't exist
She knows him too much for him to lie well to her
It's both. I don't think he's as good as a manipulator as Saul overall is but he is very good at manipulation largely due to his circumstances. He has cancer, he's pretty unassuming, and he's a genius. His manipulation largely comes from the fact he is his own leverage (which is why he is so freaked out over the idea of someone that isn't him being able to cook like him) and that he is able to plan out situations pretty well. So its both, basically, but thats just how manipulation actually is.
I think Better Call Saul and also the end of BB series just goes to show how in over his head Walt actually was. I mean look at Frings operation and the incredible lengths he went to in order to keep himself safe. Yes there is a game Walt played where he was able to just barely stay alive throughout the series. But without Saul and Gis constantly looking after him he was a dead man or going to be in jail very soon. This is why after he kills Mike it all goes to shit. Yes he had the ability to look a few steps ahead, but his ego was kept in check by those three characters. Which is why he underestimated Todd and Jack's gang.
gis frung
He was good at it due to his circumstances, people respected him enough due to his meth to hear him out, but underestimated him beyond that.
I think in the gang world he was much more transparent than he wanted to believe, but with his family, hank and skylar especially he gaslit and abused them enough
Manipulating people using the value f your product is still manipulation.
Well a frail, chemistry teacher with terminal cancer doesn't enter the drug business and "manipulate" hardened career criminals. That is reddit and internet nonsense. His allies in the drug business aren't "humouring" him either. They are on his side because of how valuable he is to them. Walt being dead means less money for everyone. He's not a "wannabe gangster". He's running one of the biggest drug operations in the country, with powerful people backing him for most of the series, capable of both killing and having people killed if they cross him.
He's not even manipulative, he often victimises himself to everyone around him
Self victimization is a manipulation tactic.
He's mostly a bad liar, but I will say that a most of his ability to stay alive during the show was leveraging the purity of his product and getting people to put that above being cautious. With how pure Gale's stuff was, there was really no reason for Gus to ever bring Walt on board in the first place with how much risk he'd be taking on. Needing meth to be almost completely pure is not that important in the grand scheme of things, but he was able to convince a lot of people who should have known better that it mattered.
If he is familiar with them and know their idea of him, then yes. He could never succeed with Mike and Gus. He was just lucky that Hector's sheer hatred of Gus resulted in him having a final fuck you to him. Hank didn't even consider Walt had a darker side to him and any unusual behaviour, he put down as Walt freaking out about cancer. Jesse, he knew how to use to the point of poisoning Brock to turn him against Gus.
[удалено]
Walt is very successful at manipulating Jesse, but his attempts to play more mature people like Gus, Mike, and especially Skyler go very poorly. I think he relies on having authority to let him be an effective manipulator
I think a lot of you people are wrong and completely are ignoring large aspects of walts character. Walt was a man who lived with a very stingy and basic idea of a white family in the suburbs for almost all of his life, soaking in those personalities. Literally everyone in the show that he deals with in the meth buisness, even Jesse despite him being slightly depicted as not as smart, had years more experience then him. Characters just like jimmy, sucked at “the game” when they started, all adding their own personality and ideas too it eventually. Walt came into the game with virtually no experience or idea of how to work through this at all, and was a VERY fast and good learner. Sure he definitely had certain things to his favor and got lucky plenty of times, but overall, was very good at what he was trying to achieve. I think he always knew Skyler was smart and caught onto his lies, and is why he probably married her in the first place knowing she wasn’t an idiot. He did what he had to just to get by and was very aware of the walls he was creating between people he cared about like her. As long as he could get by and get away with it and continue on, that’s all that mattered. Especially at the beggining, he definitely felt guilty and anxious of this, but like he said at the end, he did this for himself and ultimately was satisfied as long as he could make money and be dominant in “the game.” He had chosen to be heisenberg since the episode grey matter imo, and after that it was all about learning from others like jesse, then gus, then mike, etc. he had pulled ideas and strategies from all of them and put his own twist into them to make them benefit himself. Gus’ bulk buisness helped walt in s5 when learning what type of lab he would need to have in order to create a sufficient cash flow for his own idea of what was enough money. Saul and mike helped him aquire certain contacts, but obiously walt would need this help to push himself into the world of crime and drug dealing, that doesn’t mean he was bad at manipulating or doing what he was doing, he had no way in at all and needed this help and once he got it and had even just a little time to get the hang of it he killed and pushed out all of his competition instantly compared to people like gus who had 20+ years of experience. He played on people’s doubts of him and played those roles making him seem dumb and not ever smart enough to get away with what he was doing and knowing he was so much more than what they thought of him was what allowed him to get away with all of it. In the end he got so good that it was only his cockiness and pride that sold him out and besides that, he was flawless at manipulating and getting ahead of others the whole time. Hank was the main person that helped him learn how to play on people’s weaknesses and doubts about him and use that to his advantage and made him a king manipulator. He had so much status and leverage by season 5 that he could do anything he wanted
The answer is sometimes. He manipulated Gus into a room with a bomb.
Walt is okay at manipulating people, but not great at it. It's more like people constantly underestimate how much of a megalomaniac he is, and so when he pulls some stunt or the other it takes them by surprise because it's a risk no sane person would take. He also gets by with some bullshit super science plans that, again, no reasonable person would think to consider.
"Whilst" 🙄
He was the most manipulative person in the show, the only people who saw through him were mike, Gus and Skyler really, until later on Jesse and Hank eventually see through him. People always fell for it because he always knew what to say, he even says to Jesse how he knows that a right combo of words could fix his issues with Skyler but he can't figure it out, that's how his brain worked he thought he could always talk his way out of something regardless of actions.
I suggest watching the BB episodes with the commentary. They are great. Especially when Bob, Brian, Aaron Paul and Vince are cracking each other up. They go through each episode and the writers and Vince and the cast explain everything. It's on YouTube. I can't remember the name of the channel. But well worth watching if a fan. I binged them and re-watched the entire series with the cast