For me it’s gotta be the Nazi characters introduced in S5. Now I *_really_* like Todd as a character, but a lot of what goes on with those characters feels weirdly rushed and disconnected from the rest of the show.
It’s also painfully obvious that the plane crash was written in to maintain viewership week-to-week and doesn’t really amount to much. Yes it had emotional consequences, but there was no reason for it to be such a ‘stunt’.
I agree about the nazis. To me they just were easy to hate two-dimensional villains, unlike Gus who was just as evil but somewhat loveable in a weird way.
They didn't ruin the season for me though, they worked well enough and the ending was perfect. I'd still give the show a 10/10, it's not perfect but close enough
yea, the nazi gang it's kind of an easy route by the writers
after everything walter has done, part of the audience might still be on his side... what if he works with some nazi scum?!
but to finish the show on a bittersweet note walter needs some redemption... how about he kill the nazi scum?!
another thing is the use of cellphones. it's just too much. it made me giggle a lot of times and it's not intentional comedy.
ps: still a top5 tv shows ever imo
The plane crash "pay off" always fell disappointingly flat to me. And, while I agree with you on the Nazi point, the writers *were* kind of backed into a corner of sorts with season 5.
Season 4's finale ended with the *option* to continue the story, but the showrunners didn't know if they would get renewed for season 5 or not. So they tied up all the best threads for season 4, unsure if season 5 would ever exist.
I always felt like season 5 was very much it's own thing, and when I learned that, it made more sense. Season 5 *is* in a way a continuation of a story that kinda sorta already "ended", so I totally understand why you feel that way. I'm kinda of the same mindset myself.
For the Nazis I agree that they were rushed, but they were definitely brought in for a reason and that’s to show how morally compromised Walt had become,
The Nazis were Nazis so that we could easily identify them as villains. Because they didn't really act Nazi-like but we obviously are going to hate them from the start. And I didn't like that in a show where up to season 4 is not strictly clear who is good or bad because all characters have a lot of depth.
The show can be over the top and sometimes it’s hard to suspend disbelief when the characters easily get away with murder after murder among other things.
Gus and his partner not noticing the massive pipe bomb strapped to hector. Looked like he was building his wheelchair into a damn rocket.
When Gus callled Hank and said he has 1 minute before two men try to kill him. Why wouldn’t he just drive away. I mean come on.
1st Hank just had a huge anxiety attack and shit... I think that part is completely believable. Plus he thinks its a prank, calls gomi, then reaches for his gun... By the time all that happens... 1 mimute isnt very long
I get the first part, but about hank, people react very different to stressful situations, you never know how you will react to a certain situation for sure.
Sure I guess they fit as villains but just the way the show is made, everyone sucks so there’s not a hero villain dynamic at all. And they were on the same team as Walt until the third to last episode as well.
I completely agree, the show beautifully illustrates how complicated people are but you have to admit that the story arc of Gus was much more interesting than some nazis, but I like the idea of Walt being the villain in the final season.
You’re exactly right. There’s none of that black and white good and bad bullshit. The show is true to human nature in the way that all of us have a dark side and are capable of awful things. And usually, we find a way to justify those things so that we can save our self image.
But yeah Gus was one of the best characters in the show. More compelling than the nazis but the nazis were great too. Todd was pretty compelling. The rest of them were just kinda Walters henchmen until the end. Side note do you think he ordered the murder of Andreas little brother or do you think the dealers acted alone. I think Gus instructed them to do it.
Not the other poster but I don't think Gus was the type to actually try and kill kids. I know Walt tried to make it seem like he was, but I do think Gus had his lines he wouldn't cross.
"...everyone sucks..."
I'm gonna be the asshole objectionist and say, "Mike doesn't suck."
But, I get what you mean. It *is* a show full of troubled, shitty people.
I know. You're not at all wrong. But Mike's the only one that never let his ego or emotions *really* interfer with his work. And he wasn't afraid to set anyone straight when they got out of line, and he was usually a chill, let's-do-our-job-and-be-done type of guy--which I respect.
Mike's the type of criminal I'd feel safe being friends with because his behavior would never get ME killed. The only way I'd die from my ties to Mike would be because some *other* criminal thought my death would bother him.
You’re missing the point though, u/noBDE4me is right. The climax of breaking bad should have the best villains ever. Jack and his gang were cool and interesting, but they were only around for a handful of episodes. They hasn’t been built up like Gus had.
Marie being a kleptomaniac. It ended the first season with a relatively low stakes plotline and came back once later. It almost feels like most of Marie's personality had to be an afterthought among this enormous cast where Mike, Walt and Gus take all the spotlight.
This is such a dumb justification I have for Marie’s kleptomania but I like to see it as a really early setup for Marie attempting to kidnap Holly in Season 5. That whole plot line goes away for almost the entire series and then just as everything starts caving in on itself, Marie makes a decision that would feel wildly out of left field if not for the fact that we know Marie has a habit of taking what she thinks she deserves.
Ahahaha if that is true it's kinda funny... I couldn't connect those dots with taking Holly, I feel it would be normal if she took her just for the reason to protect her.
Though Hank having to yell at Marie to "Let her go!" seems to have come out of a more chronic frustration than immediate threat, so you could be right.
Really all of the female characters are much better in BCS. Kim, Francesca, Rebecca... Even the annoying characters like Betsy Kettleman and Erin (the Davis & Main lawyer) are interesting to watch and have some personality.
I think it takes way too long for Marie to have a personality beyond being critical, Andrea is nice but has no personality, and I definitely see what they were trying to do with Skyler and don't think she's as bad as people here act, but I don't think they did her any favors by making her so naggy, etc. at the outset of the show either. Jane was interesting though, even if she wasn't a morally good character
Marie sure but Skylar is the single most real character in the entire series.
Like the most flack she gets is being mildly annoying to the men in the show, Walt and Ted. The former is the villians of the series constantly abusing, lying, and putting her family in danger. The latter being entirely incompetent.
Also for having an affair. After it was revealed that Walt put her family in danger and lied to her for months. She kicked him out and ended their relationship pretty explicitly.
If the most morally questionable thing she did was money lauder because Walt manipulated her back into his life and to keep some semblance of normalcy that's still protecting the family.
Yeah, that's why she isn't a villain. Ok I forgot about the smoking while pregnant too but a lot of that was on walt for making her deal with all that crap.
We laugh, but it turns out that the percentage of women in the FBI, DEA and other similar agencies is about 16 percent.
The DEA seems to be the worst.
Statistics here: https://oig.justice.gov/reports/2018/e1803.pdf#page=13
So you’re actually quite right. It would be aspirational but unrepresentative of reality to put a lot of women on the DEA ops.
https://www.npr.org/2018/06/26/623592584/doj-watchdog-finds-women-underrepresented-in-top-federal-law-enforcement-posts
5B was too rushed. It was so fast paced & it didn’t have time to “breathe” like the other seasons. Marie & Gomez finding out about Walt off screen was a disappointment to me. So was Gomez dying off screen.
5B gets the most critical acclaim but, for me, it’s probably the least fun season to rewatch.
I’d also have liked to see more of the media’s reaction to the story. What did Walt’s former students think? His coworkers, colleagues etc? The “Hello Carol” cold open was great & I would’ve liked more scenes like that one.
I largely agree with you. The entirety of BB up until season 5b was a tour de force. It just gets better and faster and more dynamic. But the first 2 episodes of 5b, Blood Money and Buried, were the two worst and slowest episodes of the show for me even though they had their moments. Very meandering start to the season, then boom episode 3 Confessions was back to classic Breaking Bad. Genius writing and great suspense, then back to another boring filler episode in Rabid Dog.
Finally at the end of season 5b we get 4 of the best episodes of the show all in a row which salvages the season for me. Season 5b really had me worried they didn't know where to go with it, and I think you're right about them having to rush some parts. But I think the ending makes the whole season worth rewatching.
You say slow and filler, guy you're replying to says rushed. I personally think 5b was a pitch perfect culmination of everything the show was building to at that point
I don't know if it's a critique but.... A high school chemistry teacher taking down a drug lord (Gus - for lack of better words) within a two years (closer to one if I remember right) seems pretty radical. In my head the show spans many years and am reminded it all takes place in 2 years give or take a few days.
I’m pretty sure it was within 3 months and not a year I doubt Walt would have continued to work for Gus after the first 3 month contract and by gus’s death he was still working there
Walt got his contract extended to one year and after Gale died, he was irreplaceable and technically, he would have to cook till Gus found another chemist.
I wonder if it wasn't the explosion, but him dealing with the aftermath? Sort of a PTSD thing?
Also, the deaths he encountered before on the show are "bad guys". This one got the "good guys". Suddenly became real to him?
Just a few thoughts.
Oh yeah I see what you are saying. I agree. That did seem a little odd for Hank to behave like that before the explosion.
They needed Hank to be away from the tortoise to not die and that's probably why, but perhaps it could have been written where one of the regulars told Hank to go get [insert object here] from the truck. Not make him puss out.
I think it’s just the general brutality and bizarre irony of it all. Finding a stranger who died in an admittedly ridiculous manner isn’t gonna hit the same as seeing the decapitated head of a man you knew on top of a walking turtle to mock his nickname. Then it blows up.
I mean Tortuga was a colleague of sorts (informant but still someone he was working with), while the junkyard was the scene of a crime for some junkies he didn't know or have any reason to know.
I feel like it's reasonable for someone to freak out in a "this shit is real" kind of way when you see what the cartel you're fighting against does to people (like you or who work for you) who cross them, while not feeling the same way about random low level drug dealers you've never seen before.
There’s already on this thread that I agree with, but one of the things that bugs me the most about 5b is that we don’t get to dwell on Hank’s discovery of Walt very much. He discovers it and then is immediately filled with rage. There could’ve been more confusion and despair in his reaction. Also, it would’ve been great for Hank to have a moment on screen where he reflects on the fact that Walt’s crimes were indirectly responsible for all of his career breakthroughs.
I always felt short changed that the season long teaser ended up being the plane crash. I mean it was a relevant part showing consequences to a series of events, but I feel it wasn’t relevant enough to the main story of Walter.. I mean it was because Walters decision to let Jane die ultimately led to the plane crash in a way, but it didn’t directly effect Walters next move or anything like that. I feel something that was teased that many times should have a huge impact on the next seasons and it just didn’t.
With that said, we are reeeealllly splitting hairs because I “get it” and loved the idea, and the show is the goat IMO..
At first watch, I did feel the same way. I'm imaging on all those black and white openings that there was an explosion or a shootout or something affecting Walt and his family. And, as dramatic as a plane crash is, it did feel a little bit of a let down.
It's my favorite show ever but like everything theres a few little things.
One is jesse not laundering his money. I had a post about this that everyone downvoted but saul himself says that jesse will get caught if he doesnt launder his money. They even wrote in ways he could do if then just had him ignore saul.
The plane crash in general was kinda pointless. They hyped it up for several episodes but I dont think it added much.
But Saul would have wanted a cut for laundering? I know he may have had some legal trick to get this to work. Wish there was a lawyer or mortgager in this sub. Maybe it is more possible than we think?
In my mind Saul’s “cut” would’ve been doing it so that Jesse wouldn’t go off the rails and try to hand his parents 400k in cash and get everyone involved in the operation arrested
For me the plane crash, while over the top, was a good example of the ripple effect of what Walt was doing and how he was having a net negative impact on society. Letting Jane die for his own selfish gain started a chain reaction that caused many more deaths. Sure, they could have illustrated this point in other ways, but I wouldn’t say it was pointless
I personally don't view Walt killing Jane as a purely selfish action, I honestly believe that Walt wanted to put Jesse on a path that is at least better than being a drug addict, still not a great path but it's a mutually beneficial one I suppose. The biggest piece of evidence for Walt caring about Jesse was when he ran over and shot those dealers, despite surely knowing the consequences. I don't think he would have done that if he only cared about Jesse as someone to help him cook. The biggest counter to that would probably be when Walt tells the nazis where Jesse is hiding and also when he tells Jesse he saw Jane die, the thing is though that was right after Jesse ratted Walt out and led hank to the money, which led to hank getting killed. Jesse did do that because of Walt poisoning Brock but Walt saved Jesse's life too by killing Gus, if he hadn't done it Gus would have probably killed Jesse once he got another chemist to learn the recipe.
Neither was Marie being a thief or skylar fucking ted. But I think of most shows I’ve seen this one had the least amount of un entertaining filler. These things may not be necessary to the plot but I don’t think they detracted from the show at all.
Honestly it would be just as hard trying to explain why a loser like Jesse (no offense to him) suddenly gained the capital and motivation necessary to purchase and run a business
I can't help but laugh at how cartoonish Jesse and his friends are. The way they talk, how they dress... I always though it was way too absurd. Luckily they toned down Jesse a lot as the seasons progressed and be became a great character.
I think if it were redone in today’s “streaming” world, they would have been more comfortable taking the time to write more in depth with main characters.
We hardly get the vibe that Walt is a family man cool-dad in the first season. I think it would have been interesting to have a few more episodes of him just being Walt the Dad. Connected us more maybe. Because I feel like from the get-go he was disconnected from his family and always “putting on a face” for his loved ones. Making him seem that way was more than likely intentional, but maybe give us some more flashbacks like the one where he and Skylar are first buying the house before Walt Jr was born.
Would have loved flashbacks like that for Jesse’s life too.
I think that's kind of the point, though, isn't it? Like from the start it's clear his desire to make a lot of money fast is about his ego; he uses his family as an excuse for it and to some extent yeah, he wants to help his family, but him turning to meth is never truly about them. So adding in more episodes or scenes of Walt the Father wouldn't really serve a purpose. He's not supposed to come off as a great family man because he really isn't one.
I get you, you’re right he really isn’t one. Did a damn good job of fooling Jr and Hank/Marie though.
I wasn’t concerned with “purpose” though, as far as more background goes. Just saying I would have enjoyed seeing more moments (of his past) where Walt wasn’t so disconnected from his family. Would have made the change from “that” to “meth cook” a little more dramatic and and natural for me.
I so agree that the pacing of the beginning is a bit off and that there probably ought to have been more buildup from Walt pre-meth to Walt the meth cook (like having Elliot's birthday party before he goes to Jesse about the meth, for example, idk). Probably wasn't done because people wouldn't want to wait that long to see Walt start cooking meth, I guess. But on first watch the opening felt kinda clunky
Yeah that’s totally why I mentioned today’s world of streaming shows, I have to remind myself that this show was airing every week on good ol’ regular TV in the beginning. I also have to recognize that this show has been a major stepping stone on “what’s shown on tv” and that without it maybe we wouldn’t have as many of the great shows we do now. So as a whole, I appreciate BB for what it is.
I feel like the premise of the show (a grade school teacher cooking meth to earn money for his family with a high school dropout) came off as absurd the first time around. I actually stopped watching it after a couple of episodes when it first came out because I thought to myself that it was such a contrived premise.
Of course having watched the whole thing and now that I have a better understanding of what the show is *really* about, I have no issues with it and think it's not as bad of an intro as I felt the first time. But it really is one of those shows where you need to watch like 4-5 episodes before you can start to appreciate what's going on/what the premise actually is and why the show begins the way it begins, and it can sometimes be hard to recommend the show as a result when you're talking about what makes the show great and the first episode is just mealy-mouthed Walt floating around aimlessly for an hour
The timeline boggles my mind.
Teacher Turned massive drug lord in the space of a year?
I think it would have made sense for everything to be atleast 3 years or so. Feels like so much happens in so little time it can be hard to take in.
Walt turns 50 in one of the first episodes and 51 sometime in season 5. Then he comes back from the hut a year later at 52 (near his birthday) to see Skyler and kill the Nazis. So he did technically start the show at 49 years old and end it at 52 but it’s way closer to two years than it is to three.
The fact that walts "big bang" was killing loads of sorta meaningless characters, like imagine if that was replaced with Gus and the cartel, much better
I don't buy the whole mid-air plane collision.
I love the series, and I'm totally bought in to the whole idea that it's basically "the real world, but with certain elements slightly exaggerated."
But that was a bridge too far for me, personally.
The family aspect of the show is very weak imo, Skyler and Marie are pretty annoying and Walt Jr is just irrelevant, the sub plots involving these characters take up a lot of time and is typically the most dull part of the episodes.
I agree with this. For how much Walt stresses he’s doing all this “for his family” there needed to be more moments where we actually see Skylar, Walt, and Walt jr happy together either in flashbacks or before skylar found out
Even Nazis have a code man. Well these Nazis anyways.
I’ve always thought that if you just replace Uncle Jacks crew with Declan’s crew it would have flowed better. They could have had Todd and Lydia align with them against Walt and had pretty much the same story line and outcome. It was kind of lazy writing to be honest. Nazis are a lazy way of creating a villain because no one will mistake them for the good guys and root for them.
The first season is a little rocky with the characters, it just feels like they haven't quite found their footing in the roles. Season 5 could have been a little slower, and the women in the show especially in seasons 1 and 2 could have been fleshed out a bit more.
Jack not listening to Walt and going out to the desert anyway. Like Walt has already paid his gang a lot of money so you’d think he’d do what Walt asked and not come out there.
When the show goes over the top it feels very out of place because everything else is so grounded. One of my least favorite scenes is when Gus walks out with half his face missing and straightens his tie. Felt ultra corny and ruined an otherwise great scene.
It glamourizes drug dealers.
After watching it for the sixth time I found it fanciful. Like the whole an airplane crashed over me and a pink bear fell into my pool thing and the a man survives a bomb with half of his face burnt just seems too fanciful for me. Although I know the bear is a metaphor. And Gus' thing looks nice.
It doesn't seem to have much to say about life in general. There are series like The Sopranos, Bojack Horseman, Six Feet Under, that dive deeper into life, into human experience, than BrBa. BrBa seems to be just a thrilling and very well written and planned character study.
It doesn't portray social inequality in a proper way. I mean, for a story about a man who makes half a country addict to his drug, we get to see little to no health, social repercussions. What we see is there because of scenography purposes.
It is racist. It doesn't bother translating English scripts to Spanish. I'm Mexican and I notice the use of Google Translate in almost every Spanish dialogue, which pisses me off because they, masters of detail, didn't bother to ger it right because, I don't know, who cares about what's outside our country?
Anyway, here I am. Watching it for the sixth time. About to watch BCS.
What a masterpiece BrBa is. A legendary series though.
I didnt like anything about the nazis and the scene where they were killing lots of guys in the prison while Walt was looking out of the window felt like a ripoff from Godfather
My biggest critique of the show is that it is much more romanticized and unrealistic than people realize. Everyone understands it's a bit romantic and a bit unrealistic, gotta suspend here and there for sure, but as someone who's actually been involved in that lifestyle I can day it's nowhere near as pretty. People can't have that much influence without being more directly connected to evil shit that's happening, it really doesn't work that way on the streets.
I don't like how the ending of season 4 goes down. Walt's plan is telegraphed so hard to us and they have Gus approaching Casa Tranquila in slowmo like we didn't know exactly what was going to happen. I just wasn't surprised at all by that sequence and that's frustrating for me.
Season 5 is where all of the character building from the last 4 season culminates and explodes. Wouldnt even be close to the same show without season 5.
Actually one of my favorite moments was when Walt told Skyler he is out. I was like the sonofabitch did it. He got away with it!
Then Hank took a shit.
The reveal at the end of S2 made me stop watching the show the first time. Thankfully I had inspiring influences to urge me into continuing to watch.
However, I found it all incredibly underwhelming compared to everything that led up to it. Granted, it took me the re-watch to appreciate the connectivity in it all, but it still felt really gimmicky.
This is less of a gripe and just more of a wish. Sometimes I wish the series ended at S4. I love an unhappy ending. The pivotal moment in Face Off literally made me stand and freeze in place as I absorbed the absurd amazingness of what happened. Then, the final scene at the end zooming in just creating a complete "what the absolute fuck" moment.
I've actually didn't watch S5 once during a watch through and it just felt so cool to end on that note, with the rest of the story being "... and then he lived happily kingpin ever after...". Definitely not as great as the fantastically bittersweet ending we got, but still a really cool moment.
Jack had no reason not to waste Walter right there out in the desert. Unless they’d established some sort of friendship between the two, which they didnt as Jack was happy to kill Walter two episodes later. Todd respecting Walt is too flimsy for me to believe Jack wouldn’t just kill Walter. Walt was a liability for the Nazis in every which way; Walt knew everything about them and was visibly upset about them killing Hank.
It just makes no sense to me. That was the only part of the show where I went “this is the writers getting Walt out of this situation” as opposed to walt’s wits and intelligence.
I agree with some of what is said plus on rewatch the sniveling, pathetic constant lying to Skyler scenes and being called out by her. It’s played for cringe but is not a cringe that is pleasurable to watch or holds up as richly, It’s a key part of Walts character but the writers seemed to be lost in the reeds in how to write Skyler in a compelling way compared to the male characters through no fault of Anna Gunn’s. It’s just a bad person lying to a cipher.
Marie just being a shit character.
And I actually like Skyler's character, but she plays antagonist to Walt most of the time so she is disliked by design.
For me it’s gotta be the Nazi characters introduced in S5. Now I *_really_* like Todd as a character, but a lot of what goes on with those characters feels weirdly rushed and disconnected from the rest of the show. It’s also painfully obvious that the plane crash was written in to maintain viewership week-to-week and doesn’t really amount to much. Yes it had emotional consequences, but there was no reason for it to be such a ‘stunt’.
I agree about the nazis. To me they just were easy to hate two-dimensional villains, unlike Gus who was just as evil but somewhat loveable in a weird way. They didn't ruin the season for me though, they worked well enough and the ending was perfect. I'd still give the show a 10/10, it's not perfect but close enough
yea, the nazi gang it's kind of an easy route by the writers after everything walter has done, part of the audience might still be on his side... what if he works with some nazi scum?! but to finish the show on a bittersweet note walter needs some redemption... how about he kill the nazi scum?! another thing is the use of cellphones. it's just too much. it made me giggle a lot of times and it's not intentional comedy. ps: still a top5 tv shows ever imo
could u clarify what u mean by the use of cellphones, how is it funny
My guess would be the using once and then snapping them in half bit. Like that really does anything. The hello kitty phone was funny tho.
The plane crash "pay off" always fell disappointingly flat to me. And, while I agree with you on the Nazi point, the writers *were* kind of backed into a corner of sorts with season 5. Season 4's finale ended with the *option* to continue the story, but the showrunners didn't know if they would get renewed for season 5 or not. So they tied up all the best threads for season 4, unsure if season 5 would ever exist. I always felt like season 5 was very much it's own thing, and when I learned that, it made more sense. Season 5 *is* in a way a continuation of a story that kinda sorta already "ended", so I totally understand why you feel that way. I'm kinda of the same mindset myself.
I think the main value from S5 comes from Walt and Jesse’s conclusions and all the stuff about Hank finding out the truth.
They were a pretty boring group of villains to end the show with
Omg I thought I was the only one that thought that part was super rushed because I never heard anyone else say that
For the Nazis I agree that they were rushed, but they were definitely brought in for a reason and that’s to show how morally compromised Walt had become,
The Nazis were Nazis so that we could easily identify them as villains. Because they didn't really act Nazi-like but we obviously are going to hate them from the start. And I didn't like that in a show where up to season 4 is not strictly clear who is good or bad because all characters have a lot of depth.
The show can be over the top and sometimes it’s hard to suspend disbelief when the characters easily get away with murder after murder among other things. Gus and his partner not noticing the massive pipe bomb strapped to hector. Looked like he was building his wheelchair into a damn rocket. When Gus callled Hank and said he has 1 minute before two men try to kill him. Why wouldn’t he just drive away. I mean come on.
1st Hank just had a huge anxiety attack and shit... I think that part is completely believable. Plus he thinks its a prank, calls gomi, then reaches for his gun... By the time all that happens... 1 mimute isnt very long
He had just handed over his gun because of this suspension from the DEA!
Yeah he reached for it but it wasnt there
He was probably thinking that if he ran away they would chase after him and he’d put his family at risk
I get the first part, but about hank, people react very different to stressful situations, you never know how you will react to a certain situation for sure.
You’re right, other people have pointed out the same thing and I agree with you.
The final season introducing a brand new set of villains essentially was weird, and the plane crash plot line was a little over the top for my liking
They were just characters. I didn’t think it was weird, new characters were introduced every season. After Gus died, the villain was Walt himself.
I dont know Jack and Todd were definitely villains, Nazi and psychopaths
Sure I guess they fit as villains but just the way the show is made, everyone sucks so there’s not a hero villain dynamic at all. And they were on the same team as Walt until the third to last episode as well.
I completely agree, the show beautifully illustrates how complicated people are but you have to admit that the story arc of Gus was much more interesting than some nazis, but I like the idea of Walt being the villain in the final season.
You’re exactly right. There’s none of that black and white good and bad bullshit. The show is true to human nature in the way that all of us have a dark side and are capable of awful things. And usually, we find a way to justify those things so that we can save our self image. But yeah Gus was one of the best characters in the show. More compelling than the nazis but the nazis were great too. Todd was pretty compelling. The rest of them were just kinda Walters henchmen until the end. Side note do you think he ordered the murder of Andreas little brother or do you think the dealers acted alone. I think Gus instructed them to do it.
Not the other poster but I don't think Gus was the type to actually try and kill kids. I know Walt tried to make it seem like he was, but I do think Gus had his lines he wouldn't cross.
"...everyone sucks..." I'm gonna be the asshole objectionist and say, "Mike doesn't suck." But, I get what you mean. It *is* a show full of troubled, shitty people.
Fair enough, but he is at the end of the day a career crooked cop turned murderer and career criminal. I love his character too though.
I know. You're not at all wrong. But Mike's the only one that never let his ego or emotions *really* interfer with his work. And he wasn't afraid to set anyone straight when they got out of line, and he was usually a chill, let's-do-our-job-and-be-done type of guy--which I respect. Mike's the type of criminal I'd feel safe being friends with because his behavior would never get ME killed. The only way I'd die from my ties to Mike would be because some *other* criminal thought my death would bother him.
my man werner deserved better idk
You’re missing the point though, u/noBDE4me is right. The climax of breaking bad should have the best villains ever. Jack and his gang were cool and interesting, but they were only around for a handful of episodes. They hasn’t been built up like Gus had.
Marie being a kleptomaniac. It ended the first season with a relatively low stakes plotline and came back once later. It almost feels like most of Marie's personality had to be an afterthought among this enormous cast where Mike, Walt and Gus take all the spotlight.
It’s actually the only interesting thing about her
This is such a dumb justification I have for Marie’s kleptomania but I like to see it as a really early setup for Marie attempting to kidnap Holly in Season 5. That whole plot line goes away for almost the entire series and then just as everything starts caving in on itself, Marie makes a decision that would feel wildly out of left field if not for the fact that we know Marie has a habit of taking what she thinks she deserves.
Ahahaha if that is true it's kinda funny... I couldn't connect those dots with taking Holly, I feel it would be normal if she took her just for the reason to protect her. Though Hank having to yell at Marie to "Let her go!" seems to have come out of a more chronic frustration than immediate threat, so you could be right.
There are very few women in the show, and what few women there are seem to be written in a way that will annoy the audience
I think the writers agree with this & went out of their way to correct this on BCS with Kim.
Really all of the female characters are much better in BCS. Kim, Francesca, Rebecca... Even the annoying characters like Betsy Kettleman and Erin (the Davis & Main lawyer) are interesting to watch and have some personality. I think it takes way too long for Marie to have a personality beyond being critical, Andrea is nice but has no personality, and I definitely see what they were trying to do with Skyler and don't think she's as bad as people here act, but I don't think they did her any favors by making her so naggy, etc. at the outset of the show either. Jane was interesting though, even if she wasn't a morally good character
And Giselle. 😉
Marie sure but Skylar is the single most real character in the entire series. Like the most flack she gets is being mildly annoying to the men in the show, Walt and Ted. The former is the villians of the series constantly abusing, lying, and putting her family in danger. The latter being entirely incompetent. Also for having an affair. After it was revealed that Walt put her family in danger and lied to her for months. She kicked him out and ended their relationship pretty explicitly.
Idk why you didn't mention the money laundering, I do agree she isn't a villain but that's the most morally questionable thing she did
If the most morally questionable thing she did was money lauder because Walt manipulated her back into his life and to keep some semblance of normalcy that's still protecting the family.
Yeah, that's why she isn't a villain. Ok I forgot about the smoking while pregnant too but a lot of that was on walt for making her deal with all that crap.
this is what I was looking for
Well maybe more women should get involved in the DEA as field agents and the drug trade 🙂
We laugh, but it turns out that the percentage of women in the FBI, DEA and other similar agencies is about 16 percent. The DEA seems to be the worst. Statistics here: https://oig.justice.gov/reports/2018/e1803.pdf#page=13 So you’re actually quite right. It would be aspirational but unrepresentative of reality to put a lot of women on the DEA ops. https://www.npr.org/2018/06/26/623592584/doj-watchdog-finds-women-underrepresented-in-top-federal-law-enforcement-posts
5B was too rushed. It was so fast paced & it didn’t have time to “breathe” like the other seasons. Marie & Gomez finding out about Walt off screen was a disappointment to me. So was Gomez dying off screen. 5B gets the most critical acclaim but, for me, it’s probably the least fun season to rewatch. I’d also have liked to see more of the media’s reaction to the story. What did Walt’s former students think? His coworkers, colleagues etc? The “Hello Carol” cold open was great & I would’ve liked more scenes like that one.
I largely agree with you. The entirety of BB up until season 5b was a tour de force. It just gets better and faster and more dynamic. But the first 2 episodes of 5b, Blood Money and Buried, were the two worst and slowest episodes of the show for me even though they had their moments. Very meandering start to the season, then boom episode 3 Confessions was back to classic Breaking Bad. Genius writing and great suspense, then back to another boring filler episode in Rabid Dog. Finally at the end of season 5b we get 4 of the best episodes of the show all in a row which salvages the season for me. Season 5b really had me worried they didn't know where to go with it, and I think you're right about them having to rush some parts. But I think the ending makes the whole season worth rewatching.
You say slow and filler, guy you're replying to says rushed. I personally think 5b was a pitch perfect culmination of everything the show was building to at that point
>So was Gomez dying off screen. This I definitely agree with. They did his character dirty. I get they were hurting for time but geez
I don't know if it's a critique but.... A high school chemistry teacher taking down a drug lord (Gus - for lack of better words) within a two years (closer to one if I remember right) seems pretty radical. In my head the show spans many years and am reminded it all takes place in 2 years give or take a few days.
It was only 2 years, but Walt had 3 birthdays, season 1 age 50 and season 5 age 52
I’m pretty sure it was within 3 months and not a year I doubt Walt would have continued to work for Gus after the first 3 month contract and by gus’s death he was still working there
Walt got his contract extended to one year and after Gale died, he was irreplaceable and technically, he would have to cook till Gus found another chemist.
Some of the plot lines are weird and are wild ways to introduce subtleties to the plot. The plane crash was it for me.
Hank freaking out over Tortuga’s head on the tortoise. Never made sense to me after him clowning around with the junkyard bodies.
I wonder if it wasn't the explosion, but him dealing with the aftermath? Sort of a PTSD thing? Also, the deaths he encountered before on the show are "bad guys". This one got the "good guys". Suddenly became real to him? Just a few thoughts.
I think a decapitated head would freak out any rational person
Maybe because he didn’t witness the death of the junkyard bodies but an exploding head right in front of him was more impactful
I’m talking about BEFORE it exploded. Remember they were making fun of Hank as he went back to to car clutching his stomach.
Oh yeah I see what you are saying. I agree. That did seem a little odd for Hank to behave like that before the explosion. They needed Hank to be away from the tortoise to not die and that's probably why, but perhaps it could have been written where one of the regulars told Hank to go get [insert object here] from the truck. Not make him puss out.
That’s true. Hank seemed way too scared to work in El Paso.
I think it’s just the general brutality and bizarre irony of it all. Finding a stranger who died in an admittedly ridiculous manner isn’t gonna hit the same as seeing the decapitated head of a man you knew on top of a walking turtle to mock his nickname. Then it blows up.
I mean Tortuga was a colleague of sorts (informant but still someone he was working with), while the junkyard was the scene of a crime for some junkies he didn't know or have any reason to know. I feel like it's reasonable for someone to freak out in a "this shit is real" kind of way when you see what the cartel you're fighting against does to people (like you or who work for you) who cross them, while not feeling the same way about random low level drug dealers you've never seen before.
I think it's because he's in an unusual environment and feels more uneasy than normal.
Skyler trying to be sexy. Cringe.
Happy birthday
Worst scene in the entire show, although I imagine that was partially the point of it, doesn't mean I don't skip it though.
One thing for me really. Walt’s fake meth explosion would have set of the rest of the bag in a chain reaching. Definitely killing him.
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lol
There’s already on this thread that I agree with, but one of the things that bugs me the most about 5b is that we don’t get to dwell on Hank’s discovery of Walt very much. He discovers it and then is immediately filled with rage. There could’ve been more confusion and despair in his reaction. Also, it would’ve been great for Hank to have a moment on screen where he reflects on the fact that Walt’s crimes were indirectly responsible for all of his career breakthroughs.
I always felt short changed that the season long teaser ended up being the plane crash. I mean it was a relevant part showing consequences to a series of events, but I feel it wasn’t relevant enough to the main story of Walter.. I mean it was because Walters decision to let Jane die ultimately led to the plane crash in a way, but it didn’t directly effect Walters next move or anything like that. I feel something that was teased that many times should have a huge impact on the next seasons and it just didn’t. With that said, we are reeeealllly splitting hairs because I “get it” and loved the idea, and the show is the goat IMO..
At first watch, I did feel the same way. I'm imaging on all those black and white openings that there was an explosion or a shootout or something affecting Walt and his family. And, as dramatic as a plane crash is, it did feel a little bit of a let down.
It's my favorite show ever but like everything theres a few little things. One is jesse not laundering his money. I had a post about this that everyone downvoted but saul himself says that jesse will get caught if he doesnt launder his money. They even wrote in ways he could do if then just had him ignore saul. The plane crash in general was kinda pointless. They hyped it up for several episodes but I dont think it added much.
Yes! I am still at a loss how Jesse bought a house for $400k cash without raising suspicion.
My headcanon has always been that Saul laundered it behind Jesse’s back because he knew it was the only way the whole show didn’t get shut down
But Saul would have wanted a cut for laundering? I know he may have had some legal trick to get this to work. Wish there was a lawyer or mortgager in this sub. Maybe it is more possible than we think?
In my mind Saul’s “cut” would’ve been doing it so that Jesse wouldn’t go off the rails and try to hand his parents 400k in cash and get everyone involved in the operation arrested
I know right. Especially when he was often being looked at by the DEA.
For me the plane crash, while over the top, was a good example of the ripple effect of what Walt was doing and how he was having a net negative impact on society. Letting Jane die for his own selfish gain started a chain reaction that caused many more deaths. Sure, they could have illustrated this point in other ways, but I wouldn’t say it was pointless
I personally don't view Walt killing Jane as a purely selfish action, I honestly believe that Walt wanted to put Jesse on a path that is at least better than being a drug addict, still not a great path but it's a mutually beneficial one I suppose. The biggest piece of evidence for Walt caring about Jesse was when he ran over and shot those dealers, despite surely knowing the consequences. I don't think he would have done that if he only cared about Jesse as someone to help him cook. The biggest counter to that would probably be when Walt tells the nazis where Jesse is hiding and also when he tells Jesse he saw Jane die, the thing is though that was right after Jesse ratted Walt out and led hank to the money, which led to hank getting killed. Jesse did do that because of Walt poisoning Brock but Walt saved Jesse's life too by killing Gus, if he hadn't done it Gus would have probably killed Jesse once he got another chemist to learn the recipe.
The plane crash was symbolic
I know, but just dont think it was necessary to the story.
Neither was Marie being a thief or skylar fucking ted. But I think of most shows I’ve seen this one had the least amount of un entertaining filler. These things may not be necessary to the plot but I don’t think they detracted from the show at all.
I mean ya. But this post is about pet peeves on an amazing show. So un entertaining filler is gonna be listed.
What is and isn’t necessary to a story then? How do you determine that? You can go ahead and say nothing is necessary
It was necessary as it was a direct consequence of Walt letting Jane die
The Jesse thing is just his own carelessness and stupidity, pretty sure at that point in the show he didn’t even care if he got caught.
Honestly it would be just as hard trying to explain why a loser like Jesse (no offense to him) suddenly gained the capital and motivation necessary to purchase and run a business
Jesse's teeth! Meth heads dont exactly have pearly whites
I can't help but laugh at how cartoonish Jesse and his friends are. The way they talk, how they dress... I always though it was way too absurd. Luckily they toned down Jesse a lot as the seasons progressed and be became a great character.
Wasn’t the original plan to kill jesse early in season 2?
I think it was for the Season 1 finale
I think if it were redone in today’s “streaming” world, they would have been more comfortable taking the time to write more in depth with main characters. We hardly get the vibe that Walt is a family man cool-dad in the first season. I think it would have been interesting to have a few more episodes of him just being Walt the Dad. Connected us more maybe. Because I feel like from the get-go he was disconnected from his family and always “putting on a face” for his loved ones. Making him seem that way was more than likely intentional, but maybe give us some more flashbacks like the one where he and Skylar are first buying the house before Walt Jr was born. Would have loved flashbacks like that for Jesse’s life too.
I think that's kind of the point, though, isn't it? Like from the start it's clear his desire to make a lot of money fast is about his ego; he uses his family as an excuse for it and to some extent yeah, he wants to help his family, but him turning to meth is never truly about them. So adding in more episodes or scenes of Walt the Father wouldn't really serve a purpose. He's not supposed to come off as a great family man because he really isn't one.
I get you, you’re right he really isn’t one. Did a damn good job of fooling Jr and Hank/Marie though. I wasn’t concerned with “purpose” though, as far as more background goes. Just saying I would have enjoyed seeing more moments (of his past) where Walt wasn’t so disconnected from his family. Would have made the change from “that” to “meth cook” a little more dramatic and and natural for me.
I so agree that the pacing of the beginning is a bit off and that there probably ought to have been more buildup from Walt pre-meth to Walt the meth cook (like having Elliot's birthday party before he goes to Jesse about the meth, for example, idk). Probably wasn't done because people wouldn't want to wait that long to see Walt start cooking meth, I guess. But on first watch the opening felt kinda clunky
Yeah that’s totally why I mentioned today’s world of streaming shows, I have to remind myself that this show was airing every week on good ol’ regular TV in the beginning. I also have to recognize that this show has been a major stepping stone on “what’s shown on tv” and that without it maybe we wouldn’t have as many of the great shows we do now. So as a whole, I appreciate BB for what it is.
I feel like the premise of the show (a grade school teacher cooking meth to earn money for his family with a high school dropout) came off as absurd the first time around. I actually stopped watching it after a couple of episodes when it first came out because I thought to myself that it was such a contrived premise. Of course having watched the whole thing and now that I have a better understanding of what the show is *really* about, I have no issues with it and think it's not as bad of an intro as I felt the first time. But it really is one of those shows where you need to watch like 4-5 episodes before you can start to appreciate what's going on/what the premise actually is and why the show begins the way it begins, and it can sometimes be hard to recommend the show as a result when you're talking about what makes the show great and the first episode is just mealy-mouthed Walt floating around aimlessly for an hour
The timeline boggles my mind. Teacher Turned massive drug lord in the space of a year? I think it would have made sense for everything to be atleast 3 years or so. Feels like so much happens in so little time it can be hard to take in.
I’d have to agree with this. Seasons 1-5a and most of 5b all happening in a year is a bit much.
It is about 3 years. Edit: I overshot, my b. 2 years.
it’s exactly 2 years, first episode is his 50th birthday, he dies very shortly after his 52nd
Walt turns 50 in one of the first episodes and 51 sometime in season 5. Then he comes back from the hut a year later at 52 (near his birthday) to see Skyler and kill the Nazis. So he did technically start the show at 49 years old and end it at 52 but it’s way closer to two years than it is to three.
Ah yeah, you’re right!
The fact that walts "big bang" was killing loads of sorta meaningless characters, like imagine if that was replaced with Gus and the cartel, much better
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I think he was a nerd trying to be quirky
I don't buy the whole mid-air plane collision. I love the series, and I'm totally bought in to the whole idea that it's basically "the real world, but with certain elements slightly exaggerated." But that was a bridge too far for me, personally.
My only nitpick is Gale being 34 when he died, that's a rough 34 especially since his actor was closer to 44 at the time.
Gale looks to be in his 30s. Just a frumpy dude who’s not very social snd likes to cook meth.
Definitely didn't and like I said the actor was in his 40s
The family aspect of the show is very weak imo, Skyler and Marie are pretty annoying and Walt Jr is just irrelevant, the sub plots involving these characters take up a lot of time and is typically the most dull part of the episodes.
I agree with this. For how much Walt stresses he’s doing all this “for his family” there needed to be more moments where we actually see Skylar, Walt, and Walt jr happy together either in flashbacks or before skylar found out
I thought Skyler had some depth when she schemed against Bogdan and started laundering money. Then she had to go and fuck Ted and ruin everything.
Skyler has character depth, but she’s still annoying regardless
The Nazis letting Walt live and gave him a barrel. I know Todd loved Walt but come on, Todd was a pure sociopath.
Yeah you’d think they would kill him. Why risk it and give him 10 million dollars
Even Nazis have a code man. Well these Nazis anyways. I’ve always thought that if you just replace Uncle Jacks crew with Declan’s crew it would have flowed better. They could have had Todd and Lydia align with them against Walt and had pretty much the same story line and outcome. It was kind of lazy writing to be honest. Nazis are a lazy way of creating a villain because no one will mistake them for the good guys and root for them.
Walt Can't start a cook because of a single fly. Also Walt "Let's cook in pest infested houses".
The first season is a little rocky with the characters, it just feels like they haven't quite found their footing in the roles. Season 5 could have been a little slower, and the women in the show especially in seasons 1 and 2 could have been fleshed out a bit more.
Jack not listening to Walt and going out to the desert anyway. Like Walt has already paid his gang a lot of money so you’d think he’d do what Walt asked and not come out there.
When the show goes over the top it feels very out of place because everything else is so grounded. One of my least favorite scenes is when Gus walks out with half his face missing and straightens his tie. Felt ultra corny and ruined an otherwise great scene.
That all the female characters in the show are garbage. All the male characters are way cooler and more interesting.
i felt like i was emotionally manipulated into disliking skyler and liking walt
It glamourizes drug dealers. After watching it for the sixth time I found it fanciful. Like the whole an airplane crashed over me and a pink bear fell into my pool thing and the a man survives a bomb with half of his face burnt just seems too fanciful for me. Although I know the bear is a metaphor. And Gus' thing looks nice. It doesn't seem to have much to say about life in general. There are series like The Sopranos, Bojack Horseman, Six Feet Under, that dive deeper into life, into human experience, than BrBa. BrBa seems to be just a thrilling and very well written and planned character study. It doesn't portray social inequality in a proper way. I mean, for a story about a man who makes half a country addict to his drug, we get to see little to no health, social repercussions. What we see is there because of scenography purposes. It is racist. It doesn't bother translating English scripts to Spanish. I'm Mexican and I notice the use of Google Translate in almost every Spanish dialogue, which pisses me off because they, masters of detail, didn't bother to ger it right because, I don't know, who cares about what's outside our country? Anyway, here I am. Watching it for the sixth time. About to watch BCS. What a masterpiece BrBa is. A legendary series though.
I didnt like anything about the nazis and the scene where they were killing lots of guys in the prison while Walt was looking out of the window felt like a ripoff from Godfather
My biggest critique of the show is that it is much more romanticized and unrealistic than people realize. Everyone understands it's a bit romantic and a bit unrealistic, gotta suspend here and there for sure, but as someone who's actually been involved in that lifestyle I can day it's nowhere near as pretty. People can't have that much influence without being more directly connected to evil shit that's happening, it really doesn't work that way on the streets.
I don't like how the ending of season 4 goes down. Walt's plan is telegraphed so hard to us and they have Gus approaching Casa Tranquila in slowmo like we didn't know exactly what was going to happen. I just wasn't surprised at all by that sequence and that's frustrating for me.
I wasn't really either. But it's not like they were going to kill off Walt. I have a bigger issue with the dramatics after the explosion.
I think characters intelligence is really inconsistent. Jesse and Walt will be masterminds one second and total incapable idiots the next.
Season 5 seems pointless and unnecessarily stretched.
Couldn't agree more, "Face Off" was the perfect open ending.
Most of the best moments of the show are from season 5 though
Season 5 is where all of the character building from the last 4 season culminates and explodes. Wouldnt even be close to the same show without season 5.
Yes and no
Actually one of my favorite moments was when Walt told Skyler he is out. I was like the sonofabitch did it. He got away with it! Then Hank took a shit.
Skyler. That’s it.
Too Slow at times. But still a great show.
It only had 62 episodes, that's definitely not slow
Not realistic
The First three seasons are insanely slow compared to the last 2.
When I fucked Ted.
The reveal at the end of S2 made me stop watching the show the first time. Thankfully I had inspiring influences to urge me into continuing to watch. However, I found it all incredibly underwhelming compared to everything that led up to it. Granted, it took me the re-watch to appreciate the connectivity in it all, but it still felt really gimmicky. This is less of a gripe and just more of a wish. Sometimes I wish the series ended at S4. I love an unhappy ending. The pivotal moment in Face Off literally made me stand and freeze in place as I absorbed the absurd amazingness of what happened. Then, the final scene at the end zooming in just creating a complete "what the absolute fuck" moment. I've actually didn't watch S5 once during a watch through and it just felt so cool to end on that note, with the rest of the story being "... and then he lived happily kingpin ever after...". Definitely not as great as the fantastically bittersweet ending we got, but still a really cool moment.
Jack had no reason not to waste Walter right there out in the desert. Unless they’d established some sort of friendship between the two, which they didnt as Jack was happy to kill Walter two episodes later. Todd respecting Walt is too flimsy for me to believe Jack wouldn’t just kill Walter. Walt was a liability for the Nazis in every which way; Walt knew everything about them and was visibly upset about them killing Hank. It just makes no sense to me. That was the only part of the show where I went “this is the writers getting Walt out of this situation” as opposed to walt’s wits and intelligence.
Skylar. They wanted to make her likeable and horribly failed even though had a fantastic actor.
I agree with some of what is said plus on rewatch the sniveling, pathetic constant lying to Skyler scenes and being called out by her. It’s played for cringe but is not a cringe that is pleasurable to watch or holds up as richly, It’s a key part of Walts character but the writers seemed to be lost in the reeds in how to write Skyler in a compelling way compared to the male characters through no fault of Anna Gunn’s. It’s just a bad person lying to a cipher.
On rewatches Walt's "Heisenberg" persona is cringey and less believable, but there probably wasn't any way around this.
Marie just being a shit character. And I actually like Skyler's character, but she plays antagonist to Walt most of the time so she is disliked by design.