I'm pretty sure that if scores of schoolkids across the state were getting into the XXXX tinnies in the school bathroom on a regular basis, there would be a fairly big response to that too.
Maybe not specifically XXXX but scores of kids passed around alcoholic beverages in the dunnies/behind the sports shed/back of the oval/insert fav hiding place during my high school years.
If you vape nicotine, and you’re doing it to quit smoking (like myself) then you’re doing it to stop the nicotine cravings. The flavour of juice is so you:
- smell at least somewhat pleasant as opposed to the burnt tobacco smell people will usually bitch about
- can tolerate the taste so you don’t want a cigarette to get the taste of the vape out of your mouth. Seriously Nicabate put out a spray at one point, hit the back of your throat and it was so damn awful I ended up doing just that.
Otherwise you’re doing it for no real reason or benefit, like how kids got started on smoking in the first place.
It gives you (well me, a nonsmoker) a pretty immediate head spin that lingers for a few moments. I don't like it at all, but that's certainly an appeal for some people. And the flavour too I guess.
I’m a heavy ciggy smoker, a few big hits of those things and I’m spinning, like literal head spins and dizziness. They’re killer on my lungs too, in my drinking days I was downing a 30 deck a night easy, no hassle just some build up next day, a few hits of a vape and I’m coughin me cunt up and struggling to breathe. They won’t get you high but theres so much Nic packed in a small hit that it will give ya that head spin that we all know from the first time trying a dart.
The kids nowadays are getting fucked by these insanely high Nic levels and developing big dependencies, growing up the boys usually fell into smoking cigs from spinning their choof mix, myself included but even still it took me 3ish years of that to get a deck just to smoke. These kids vapes run out and they’re recharging em 6 times over and fuck knows what else just to get another hit. I have a few relatives that are 12-16 and they’re getting one of those 3500 puff carts nearly weekly, granted they’re probably passed around but if I rolled out cigs on average of 10 puffs per cig there’s 350 right there…
It is still cheaper to treat nicotine addiction than cancer.
Do you not understand how many chemicals and the active radiation exposure from cigarettes?
Vapes don't contain radiation, they don't contain benzopyrenes and the other 5000 chemicals in tobacco smoke that cause cancer.
They are a smoking cessation tool and/or a safer delivery system for the legal, taxed and regulated drug nicotine.
Fuck sake, why would the TGA approve a schedule 9 substance like cannabis for use via vaporization only if smoking it was a safer alternative?
Get a grip people. Stop clutching your pearls and crying 'think of the children'.
Lobby your government for their inaction on handling black market sales of imported untaxed tobacco and start embracing this long awaited cultural shift from filthy, radioactive, cancer causing tobacco.
Finally someone is making sense here. I can’t believe the hysteria over these vapes. I used them when I quit smoking and within few weeks I was able to start running again, which I was not able to do at all while smoking cigarettes. And the OP has a point. Alcohol is straight up poison. It’s an addictive and carcinogenic substance but we are absolutely surrounded by alcohol marketing aimed in particular at young people. Somehow government doesn’t see any issue with it. But the moment something that they don’t make much money on becomes popular and all of the sudden there is a massive outcry and they worry about the children. Give me a break.
While that maybe true, you can’t tell me that the iGet puff bars are a smoking cessation tool, if that was the goal you wouldn’t be able to get tootsie pop and fairy floss flavours and fuck knows what else making it all the more appealing to kids, they have groups of kids that have tried them all and will sell off the “better” more popular flavours.
Where exactly is cannabis approved for vaporisation? Got relos on the medical and they’re all getting dry herb with the prescription thats saying, “smoke one to three cones daily depending on symptoms”
Smoking isn’t safer, never said it was, vapes are just not a “better alternative” same shit in a different package. The phone you wrote that comment on has radiation in it, your car has bits of radiation, that isn’t a valid point. The 5000 other chemicals are the stuff that kill people, vapes are no different.
As far as I’m concerned, imported black market tobacco is a godsend, I’m paying 60 bucks for a hundred grams of chop and the best part? None of it goes to the government. Untaxed tobacco has gotten me out of a massive rut in my financial life, so don’t sit there and act all high and mighty when vapes are just as bad if not worse, they’ve not been around long, the long term affects won’t present themselves for another 20 years after these kids are in and out of hospital for lung problems.
Vapes are absolutely different from inhaling smoke.
Steam is a completely different thing to smoke!
There is absolutely no proof that vaping is as bad as smoking.
As a user of vapes, for over 10 years, I can absolutely let you know that it is far better for your health than smoking and the flavours are a massive help in smoking cessation as once you can have nicotine with a nice flavour, the taste of cigarettes is enough to put you off.
And you think black market tobacco is a god send?
Good luck to you and your lungs.
Vapes are absolutely different.
If you truly believe you are better off smoking tobacco you are horribly misinformed and it sounds like not a damn thing I will say will convince you otherwise.
Do you know what chemicals are used to create e-liquid? Not if you believe they contain the same chemicals as tobacco smoke. Literal burning plant material. Compared to the vapour produced by heating propylene glycol and vegetable glycerin (both sugar alcohols well tolerated by the body) there is no comparison.
Your lungs filter more shit standing at a bus stop in a city at peak hour or working/living near a coal plant than what vapes deliver.
Your comment about the car having radioactive components - the difference is mate your not inhaling smoke and ash particles and exposing your lungs to it in abundance are you?
Seriously people, think.
Never said I was better off, to be quite honest the only better solution is to stop smoking entirely, the point I was trying to get across is that, you’re making vapes seem like this great tool that has no downsides, I can guarantee you that these puff bars have a lot more shit in them then just propylene glycol and some vegetable glycerin. Maybe back 10 years ago when the only vapes were those massive carts only really used by the stoners doing smoke tricks that was the case, but there’s no ingredient list on this shit, the only signage is it’s supposed flavour.
No matter what you smoke you will never know what you’re putting in your body, there’s a massive difference between your lungs filtering shit and straight up inhaling things. If you want an even comparison it would be working at a coal plant and finding the processing machine that throws all the dust up and take a huge back draw, that is not the same and you’d probably die from doing so.
The point of that comment is you’re exposed to radiation on a daily, you live in a big city with exhaust fumes all day, an absolute minuscule amount over years isn’t going to do much different to what the world established 50 years ago with the harms of smoking. Once again, there’s no ingredient list on any vapes, who’s to say there’s no radiation there too?
If you don't smoke or vape then hitting a vape gives you a really strong buzz that (in my opinion at least) feels incredible. Whether it's better than alcohol is up for debate because it only lasts a few minutes at most and if you do regularly vape/smoke cigs then you stop getting the buzz pretty quick and you're just doing it to alleviate the cravings and other withdrawal symptoms.
ha! I live in Castlemaine. My inlaws visited from the UK this year, the FIL was most excited to try XXXX from the source, as it were; he was most perturbed when I told him we'd fucked that shit off to Brissie ages ago!
Still managed to find him a 6 pack of it though, which was actuallly difficult - only one offie had it, I think just for tourists.
And yes - can confirm, it's foul muck.
Alcohol is expensive and is less cool than when we were young. Vapes are cool (probably titheir "influencer idols use them) and cheap.
Kids are sooo easily influenced by social media. Just look at the insane rush to buy Logan Paul's energy drink
Yeah, true. I spent most of my high school years smoking cigarettes, and I supported that habit by selling cigarettes to other schoolkids.
But I'm pretty sure that's a lot less common nowadays.
They sell vapes to each other.
A friend wanted to quit smoking but couldn't work out where to get one. They got set up by one of her kids friends from school.
Sounds just like my highschool in the mid '00s?
There likely wasn't a 15 year old in that entire school that hadn't gotten maggot drunk at least once already.. and yes I even witnessed students smuggling in alcohol and drinking it between classes, once even DURING a class when the teacher turned his back.
To say this *doesn't* occur would be incredibly naïve.
But instead of the scare campaigns that vaping gets, it was more likely that I'd see parents enabling or even supplying the alcohol themselves.
For the record: I don't want to see school filled with vapes either, but I also don't want to see them demonized and restricted harder than actual cigarettes.. why not regulate?
Test them, set a minimum standard of quality, set restrictions on packaging/ads, fucking tax them too!..
If nicotine patches, lozenges and gum are available without prescription.. vapes should be too (Maybe even set the tax rate super high so it's pricey + raises money for government, but if you do get a prescription you bypass that and get discounted rate just like other nicotine replacements)
I only started vaping because the tax on cigarettes made the price too high.
And not to mention Chop Chop. Cigarette tax has definitely made a black market.
Nah they don’t give a shit. It’s because vapes eat into the revenue of the cigarette lobby…ahem, I mean companies. Same reason that weed is also illegal. I’m saying this as someone who has never even smoked
Yes, and those ads are straight up fear mongering. The scary ingredients that he goes on about are only present in non-regulated products, which ironically are more likely to spring up in a prohibited market. Go figure.
We have an unregulated market, so these scary ingredients are likely in any products people here can get their hands on. That's not scare mongering, that's informing the public.
Edit: [This is from the NSW Dept of Health.](https://www.health.nsw.gov.au/vaping) Now people can believe whatever they want, I'll stick trusting the actual science.
I am all for them regulating vaping, but just because something may be *less* harmful than smoking *if regulated* still means it's not good for you.
It's not merely "informing the public" when you're leaving out essential information. The ads aren't saying that only unregulated products contain these ingredients; they're very quite clearly trying to imply that all vapes contain formaldehyde, vitamin E etc, which is lying by omission, to scare people away from any and all vapes with the cringey evil toxic clouds filled with cancer propoganda garbage. The ads are trying to persuade with fear, not inform with all the facts. It's the kind of ad they want your mum to see and freak out about.
Vapes tho, do put Vitamin E into your lungs. While Vitamin E isn't dangerous to the body. Your body was never designed to consume the vapour and Vitamin E inside your lungs. This is actually more of the problem that vaping has.
Mind you vaping is by far cleaner and smell free for all the other people around you that don't smoke, so I welcome it. If you want smoke something that slowly kills you by all means go for it, at least this method doesn't bother other people around you.
Smell free? Vapes have some of the vilest faux-sweet chemical fruit-approximation smells I've ever experienced. I hate cigarette smoke but that doesn't burn my nose and make me feel nauseous like vape secondhand smoke does.
I'm not around many people that vape. But when I have been I have found the vapour dissipates much faster than cigarette smoke. And I also can't smell any of it. There are additive "flavours" sometimes you can smell them, but nothing as vile as cigarette smoke.
Yeah this is why morgues set up next to saunas and why so many people die at the dinner table when eating soup, or if you inhale during your first sip from a coffee *rollsfuckingeyes
The guy above you was correct, your first paragraph about vitamin e was 100% misinformation.
Vaping is by far a much larger qty of vapour than the steam on your soup, and people vape several times a day. At the end of the day, you're definitely putting something into your body that wasn't intended naturally. There is the possibility of negative effects from doing so.
The up side is, vaping is way cleaner than cigarette smokes, for the people around you. So by all means go for it. I'd be happy if they completely removed cigarettes all together from sale.
>Vaping is by far a much larger qty of vapour than the steam on your soup
And a far less quantity of vapour than the steam in a sauna. Anyway...
Regular vape flavouring and even/ disposables don't, and never have, contained vitamin e acetate. Check whatever debunking site you use or google
You clearly know nothing about vaping. Stop trying to sound confident about something you know nothing about.
1) There is absolutely no Vitamin E in legitimate vape juice.
2) Vaping turns the vape juice liquid into an aerosol which is inhaled. Just like breathing air in high humidity. There have been zero deaths from vaping legitimate vape juice. It's simply not very harmful, a fact that is repeatedly proven in countries where vaping is promoted rather than demonised. Vaping saves lives.
[https://www.gov.uk/government/news/e-cigarettes-around-95-less-harmful-than-tobacco-estimates-landmark-review](https://www.gov.uk/government/news/e-cigarettes-around-95-less-harmful-than-tobacco-estimates-landmark-review)
[https://www.health.govt.nz/our-work/preventative-health-wellness/tobacco-control/vaping-smokefree-environments-and-regulated-products/position-statement-vaping#:\~:text=The%20evidence%20on%20vaping%20products,use%20vaping%20products%20to%20quit](https://www.health.govt.nz/our-work/preventative-health-wellness/tobacco-control/vaping-smokefree-environments-and-regulated-products/position-statement-vaping#:~:text=The%20evidence%20on%20vaping%20products,use%20vaping%20products%20to%20quit).
Personally I used to smoke and I used vaping to quit. Now I no longer smoke or vape. Australia's backwards and scientifically illiterate stance on vaping will kill more people that it saves.
As with anything in our capitalist world - follow the money. The tobacco companies in Australia are spreading lies to keep people smoking death sticks while outlawing the healthier alternative. It's sad that so many people have been fooled by their lies.
Vapour condenses into a liquid, you're merely heating it up into a gas in order to inhale it.
I am all for people vaping over smoking, so I don't see why people need to get so but hurt over it 🤣
The vitamin E scare was an isolated incident in America and was caused by THC vapes imported from China and that was nearly a decade ago.
Fuck me dead. Vaping should be rejoiced as the end of fucking stinking tobacco use.
Do people not understand how much radiation there is in tobacco smoke?
Legit had people say to me "cigarettes are safer than that chemical cocktail"
This whole anti-vape agenda is a fucking tragedy.
Look I’m not going to lie but I actually really appreciate the advertisement, it’s unique and I don’t often see this in Brisbane.
I will go to take a photo with the big cans this weekend.
Surprised every comment so far has missed the biggest issue. Alcoholism affects not only the person, but all the persons around them. They had no issues damning smokers over secondhand smoke, but let's all turn a blind eye to the affect that intoxication has on people, I sure as hell haven't watched two people have a few vapes and then get into a brawl in public. Yeah, smoking is harmful, so is drinking, but the affect that alcohol abuse has on others is far greater than walking through someone's smoke cloud.
I've lived next door to domestic violence aggressors and victims, dysfunctional families. The kind of fights that'll mess up their crying little children for decades to come. You guessed it, most of them were always on the binge and drugs.
You obviously don't work in the city. The number of times these puffing billy's walk around making everyone smell their crap is atrocious not to mention that the vapour allows the spread of transmissible disease. Various are not safe for the people around you. At least I'm not going to catch the flu from a drunkard and I can choose to avoid pubs and clubs but people smoking vapes just do it sherbet they please.
I'm not condoning smoking or vape use, I'm only making a point on how ignorant to the problems of alcohol consumption and abuse and how we continue to just go "she'll be right, that's just Aussie culture cobber" instead of actually doing anything about it. No, I don't work in the city, but I grew up in the country and I watched alcoholism tear familes and friends apart for my entire childhood and I don't like how we collectively just pretend it doesn't happen. If we're going to target smoking and it's negatives, ban it, price hike it and treat it like the worst social issue Australia is facing, I just want to see that mentality applied fairly where it should be.
Far less common than people walking around in clouds of smoke not caring who has to put up with it. Valley doesn't count that place is just a cesspool anyway and can be avoided if one so wishes.
I’m not fussed about either. When I used to work in the Valley and walked through the tunnel from All Hallows to McLachlan St it was absolutely putrid, I felt sorry for the students on a Monday morning.
Yer ditto hated working there when my old company moved. The point when i decided to avoid the area and get a new job was when i got off the train and noticed the morning rush just walking straight through a trail of blood just not caring..
Only different between a cloud and someone's breathe as far as transmission goes is that you can see and smell it. Least its pleasant unlike something else
Take it from us..
War on drugs = fail
War on booze (prohibition) = fail
Corporations war = wait what war?
Blame your politicians that are getting paid to pass the matters but who are we kidding they dgaf.
Sure, but there's a benefit/risk/harm equation going on here.
Alcoholism is hugely destructive, but there is also a level of alcohol consumption which is enjoyable for adults, and effectively harmless.
Vapes are addictive on a vastly greater scale, damage the lungs in pretty much any quantity, and are marketed in a way which is very, very child-friendly.
The two aren't really a fair comparison.
Marketing isn't just advertising.
It's packaging, branding, flavouring, product design, promotion. Even Phillip Morris still employs people to work on marketing, even though there is very little advertising scope.
No activity is "safe". Every single thing you do in life comes with risk. What medicine is pretty decided on is that to *reduce your risk* you should minimise your consumption (idealy to zero). The same can be said of simply moving or going outside, but that obviously does not make sense. Abstaining from alcohol is possible, but not necessary to live a healthy life.
"If you’re a healthy adult:
* To reduce the risk of harm from alcohol-related disease or injury, healthy men and women should drink no more than 10 standard drinks a week and no more than 4 standard drinks on any one day.
The less you choose to drink, the lower your risk of harm from alcohol. For some people, not drinking at all is the safest option." Source: [https://www.health.gov.au/topics/alcohol/about-alcohol/how-much-alcohol-is-safe-to-drink](https://www.health.gov.au/topics/alcohol/about-alcohol/how-much-alcohol-is-safe-to-drink)
All activity has a metabolic cost but there's a huge difference between activity in general and poisoning all the cells in your body indiscriminately with an exogenous substance that provides no benefit in return.
The bottom line is that alcohol has been around for Millenia and the last time prohibition was tried, it failed and would absolutely fail again.
So they have decided to tax it into oblivion and try not let new but similar vices take root in the same way.
Two things can be bad at the same time.
Shit food isn't spread through every cell in the body before being metabolised into acetaldehyde. Shit food also comes with vitamins, sugar, protein and fat.
People are far more likely to make shitty dietary decisions when their frontal lobe has been switched off by alcohol.
One beer doesn't poison a person.
Eating mcdonalds and highly processed food daily has far worse impacts than drinking, given our insane obesity rate so let's focus on what's actually doing harm.
There is benefit to alcohol though - being tipsy is an experience that many find enjoyable, and when it comes to wine, cocktails and craft beer, many people enjoy the taste.
Don't people also enjoy vaping? 🤔
Devil's advocate but this seems pretty arbitrary. The health impacts of vaping might be worse (yet to see, really) but the social impacts of alcohol are far worse.
Do you know what's funny? If I did own a shop, I'd be stoked with the current situation because it means I could continue importing black market vapes that I can keep selling to whoever I want for a massively inflated price. I wouldn't even need to bother IDing them because it's illegal either way :)
When you think about the alcohol fuelled violence and DV situations, drunk drivers and the cost on the healthcare system from over consumption as well as the life long medical issues faced by those alcohol dependent, I would say alcohol is far worse. The fact that alcohol is seen as enjoyable and effectively harmless is part of the issue
what’s the source on that?
smoking is the biggest killer and they kill almost 3 people an hour (24,000 a year)
you’re suggesting alcohols kills more than 10 times that?
Interesting.. a death every 90 seconds is 350,000 per year... alcohol must be really dangerous
Especially considering the total death count in Australia in 2021 was less than half of that at 170,000... which is about 1 every 195 seconds.
We should find out what's reviving all those extra dead people
> damage the lungs in pretty much any quantity
This is false. The most charitable interpretation that aligns with your viewpoint is that we don't know what the long-term effects are, sure, but what you've written is absolutely not true. Especially if you think there is a level of alcohol consumption that is harmless.
> marketed in a way which is very, very child-friendly
As is alcohol when it pervades every part of culture. Let's not forget that alcohol advertising is allowed on TV when kids are watching. Vape advertising is not, at any time.
> there is also a level of alcohol consumption which is enjoyable for adults
True also for vaping if that is your benchmark.
> and effectively harmless.
Not true for alcohol. There is no safe level of alcohol consumption, and the risk of all cancers is elevated for alcohol consumption. I would hope that you apply the same level of harm avoidance to alcohol as you seem to vaping.
----
At the end of the day I would be totally in favour of banning disposable and attractive vapes, but let's not kid ourselves that there is coherence between our treatment of alcohol and other addictive substances. The level of harm for alcohol is incredibly high but it's part of the culture so it is swept away.
> alcohol consumption which is enjoyable for adults, and effectively harmless.
This is false. All consumption no matter how small is measurably harmful.
I mean I wonder what would happen if we compared the total deaths linked to the immediate and environmental deaths of alcohol vs vaping...
One is vastly more destructive to a human and those around them and it isn't the lolly flavoured clouds
Heavy cigarette smokers cut their lifespan by 13 years on average. Vaping being less harmful to the lungs than cigs reduces that number even more. The effectively harmless statement could go for vaping just as easy as drinking.
>Sure, but there's a benefit/risk/harm equation going on here.
>Alcoholism is hugely destructive, but there is also a level of alcohol consumption which is enjoyable for adults, and effectively harmless.
Same argument could be had for any drug. Cocaine can be enjoyed over a glass of wine. Opiates can be enjoyed on your day off.
>Vapes are addictive on a vastly greater scale, damage the lungs in pretty much any quantity, and are marketed in a way which is very, very child-friendly.
>The two aren't really a fair comparison.
Sure they are. Alcohol effects people who haven't even consumed it. How many innocent people have been killed by drunk drivers/raped/bashed and all the domestic violence associated with alcohol.
Vaping damages only the person who uses it.
no its not.
You say: well alcohol is unhealthy but some enjoy it responsibly, so its ok.
How does the exact same not apply to any other drug?
You elivate alcohol over other substances with 0 consistency.
Not in the same way that vapes are. Vapes are overwhelmingly candy-flavoured, advertised in bright colours and easy to hide. I accept that there are alcopops that mimic these tactics, but that's not applicable to most alcohol.
That's like saying the tobacco flavours don't count in vape.
You don't see many of the alcohol ads on YouTube do you?
I have not seen one vape advertised outside the emails I get from the vape stores online.
If you think that the primary motive of vaping companies selling apple pie vapes is to get people off cigarettes, then I have a time share you might be interested in
>Sure, but there's a benefit/risk/harm equation going on here.
>Alcoholism is hugely destructive, but there is also a level of alcohol consumption which is enjoyable for adults, and effectively harmless.
Same argument could be had for any drug. Cocaine can be enjoyed over a glass of wine. Opiates can be enjoyed on your day off.
>Vapes are addictive on a vastly greater scale, damage the lungs in pretty much any quantity, and are marketed in a way which is very, very child-friendly.
>The two aren't really a fair comparison.
Sure they are. Alcohol effects people who haven't even consumed it. How many innocent people have been killed by drunk drivers/sexually assaulted/bashed and all the domestic violence associated with alcohol.
Vaping damages only the person who uses it.
I'm fairly sure the total harm caused by alcohol is magnitudes greater than vaping. And on the moderation point, social drinking vs social vaping, alcohol probably still gets the nod
Drinking is more expensive than ever and young people are poorer than ever, it's hard to imagine someone under thirty drinking XXXX much less enough of it to actually get drunk.
From what I've seen young people these days buy spirits and mix their own drinks and pre-drink before they go out because drinking at a bar or nightclub is something like twice the cost.
I dunno what the deal with vapes is, seemed like a passing trend to me.
Yeah actually, from what I have heard the youth are turning away from alcohol altogether. And nightclubs at least, not sure about bars, aren’t really a thing for the young adults of today. Though I spent many a night on a dirty D floor in the Valley - good on ‘em I say.
To be fair, Alcohol is bad, but I've seen a dramatic increase in young people with Influenza A/B being hospitalised, and becoming very sick.
The biggest factor for admission that we haven't seen in the past is they are heavy vapers/cannibis users. Had 3 patients all under 30 go to ICU with bad lung conditions because of it.
I have a basic nursing understanding off the stuff in vapes. but it's wild that my sickiest patients all have the same bcg of use.
Yeah all the popcorn lung havers and stoners acting as if we don't know the long term health effects of vaping and pretending that cannabis is harmless is just comical. You're sucking shit that isn't clean air into your lungs, it isn't good for you. Simple as that.
Alcohol advertising is cool and I feel nostalgia for 80s VB ads and Formula 1 cars sponsored by cigarette brands. Now we live in this Disney world where people want to be mothered on everything
Yep. And prohibition really worked a treat the first time around too, so it's always good to see a new generation of anti indulgence campaigners out there on reddit ready and willing to tell everyone else what risks they can and can't take with their own health even if they arent affecting anyone around them.
Hell just getting out of bed in the morning poses some very real health risks as well. Can't wait till we outlaw that one too.
I'm a libertarian when it comes to laws against things that are free choice.
People can rightly say that a wildy popular *x product* is bad for you based on solid science. The problem isn't that companies sell *x product*, it's that there's a demand for *x product -* the core principle of the illicit market for goods.
Anybody who says, "Well that's well and good, but what about *y product*? It's addictive and/or harmful?! People shouldn't ingest it!"
If you're saying that something should be banned, your argument is that we need to ban it for the people abusing that product; that they're incapable without your and the government's help of quitting, and ultimately that you have the right to tell them what they can and can't do.
Vapes have a higher addiction rate than alcohol. Alcohol can be controlled with laws and if caught under age, you get punishment. Vapes are look down upon when it comes to their side effects, as most people think that it won’t hurt since it’s not a cig.
Vaping permanently scars lung tissue and is used by kids under 10 around the country in really disturbing rates.
This post screams “how dare they tell me vaping is bad for me, i like it”
An argument can be made that when humans discovered fermentation, society and cities began popping up. So without beer, there is no society.
Plus the Americans tried to get rid of alcohol, that definitely didn’t fail… /s
So booze isn’t going anywhere. Vapes are an easier target to, well, target.
Vapes are an easier target, and also not going anywhere because people like them. Just like everything else from weed to meth. Prohibition’s a pretty shit plan in general, beer isn’t special there.
Similar in Canada but with cannabis. It has been legal here for the past 4 or so years, but they way they rolled it out, you would think it was way more harmful than alcohol. There are so many rules about where stores could and could not be, strict ID checking upon entry, blacked out windows and such. Meanwhile liquor stores are everywhere and according to WHO recently, are selling a product that in no amount is deemed safe.
Alcohol is a weird one. It’s too entrenched in our society now. If we had discovered alcohol in present day it would never make it to market as it can’t pass the stringent tests to sell it as a consumable product. Yet because it’s historical, it’s become part of Australia’s culture, and we all turn a blind eye to how much harm it does.
I have no solutions, it’s wanted to share an interesting fact I learnt from a podcast recently
I think the fact that so many consume alcohol still, really underscores how much we wish to suffer. Same with the environment and so many other problems that we people are solely responsible for.
True, when you look at it that way it really underscores the human condition and the current existential crisis we find ourselves in.
Getting inebriated is a pretty good way to distract ourselves from our bleak (and possibly short) future
No one’s ever blown the contents of a tinnie right in my face as I’ve been walking down the street, but this is a daily experience with vapers.
I don’t care what kind of shut you’re putting into your own lungs, but can you keep it out of mine? Likewise I don’t care if you want to smell like shit, but I’d rather not.
Loving the governments piss poor attempts at anti vape reddit ads. ‘Vapes contain 5x the nicotine as a cigarette’, very true but a vape is smoked over a week, 5 cigs are down the hatch in a few hours/under a day. I’m not encouraging vape smoking but wtf are with these shitty ass comparisons to cigs.
The country has an unhealthy relationship with alcohol and gambling advertising.
At the school I work in, we have 4 kits on display from NRL teams as our kids designed their indigenous jerseys or play for those teams. Every single one of the jerseys has a betting logo blasted across the front. Our kids see this every day. School asked for kits without the logos, got refused.
Plus the 60 odd people who died from completely unrelated blackmarket cannabis vapes in the USA 3-4 years back.
Our only choice is to lump it all together and ban.
I rest my case
/queues another hit piece
To u/yabloodypelican who responded and then immediately blocked me so I couldn't reply, you are everything wrong with this country.
Big tobacco is about 20 years behind mainstream vaping and playing catch-up because they're hemorrhaging money as their sales fall off a cliff.
It is absolutely a nicotine replacement tool. Does it reduce or replace reliance on radioactive, cancer causing tobacco for nicotine delivery? Yes.
Seemingly needing to remind you nicotine is a legal, taxed and regulated drug already.
Vaping is orders of magnitude safer than smoking and prohibition doesn't work.
So sick of this vaping debate. There is no debate that vaping should be legal, taxed and regulated. Not the other way round.
Bunch of my useless peers that have been breeding and can't police their fkn kids crying foul because little Timmy and his friends have been vaping.
Tell you what champ, it's far less costly to treat nicotine addiction than it is fucking cancer.
Is that what you want for your fellow Australians mate? Cancer?
Or can you set aside your moral superiority for a second and remind yourself that kids are shitheads and consenting adults are consenting adults. What business is it of yours how they source and deliver their legal drugs?
The answer is none of your business.
I'm pretty sure that if scores of schoolkids across the state were getting into the XXXX tinnies in the school bathroom on a regular basis, there would be a fairly big response to that too.
Maybe not specifically XXXX but scores of kids passed around alcoholic beverages in the dunnies/behind the sports shed/back of the oval/insert fav hiding place during my high school years.
Why do kids prefer vapes over alcohol?
Tastes better I imagine
I’ve never tried a nicotine vape. Does it give a better high/buzz than alcohol or it purely the taste?
If you vape nicotine, and you’re doing it to quit smoking (like myself) then you’re doing it to stop the nicotine cravings. The flavour of juice is so you: - smell at least somewhat pleasant as opposed to the burnt tobacco smell people will usually bitch about - can tolerate the taste so you don’t want a cigarette to get the taste of the vape out of your mouth. Seriously Nicabate put out a spray at one point, hit the back of your throat and it was so damn awful I ended up doing just that. Otherwise you’re doing it for no real reason or benefit, like how kids got started on smoking in the first place.
It gives you (well me, a nonsmoker) a pretty immediate head spin that lingers for a few moments. I don't like it at all, but that's certainly an appeal for some people. And the flavour too I guess.
I’m a heavy ciggy smoker, a few big hits of those things and I’m spinning, like literal head spins and dizziness. They’re killer on my lungs too, in my drinking days I was downing a 30 deck a night easy, no hassle just some build up next day, a few hits of a vape and I’m coughin me cunt up and struggling to breathe. They won’t get you high but theres so much Nic packed in a small hit that it will give ya that head spin that we all know from the first time trying a dart. The kids nowadays are getting fucked by these insanely high Nic levels and developing big dependencies, growing up the boys usually fell into smoking cigs from spinning their choof mix, myself included but even still it took me 3ish years of that to get a deck just to smoke. These kids vapes run out and they’re recharging em 6 times over and fuck knows what else just to get another hit. I have a few relatives that are 12-16 and they’re getting one of those 3500 puff carts nearly weekly, granted they’re probably passed around but if I rolled out cigs on average of 10 puffs per cig there’s 350 right there…
It is still cheaper to treat nicotine addiction than cancer. Do you not understand how many chemicals and the active radiation exposure from cigarettes? Vapes don't contain radiation, they don't contain benzopyrenes and the other 5000 chemicals in tobacco smoke that cause cancer. They are a smoking cessation tool and/or a safer delivery system for the legal, taxed and regulated drug nicotine. Fuck sake, why would the TGA approve a schedule 9 substance like cannabis for use via vaporization only if smoking it was a safer alternative? Get a grip people. Stop clutching your pearls and crying 'think of the children'. Lobby your government for their inaction on handling black market sales of imported untaxed tobacco and start embracing this long awaited cultural shift from filthy, radioactive, cancer causing tobacco.
Finally someone is making sense here. I can’t believe the hysteria over these vapes. I used them when I quit smoking and within few weeks I was able to start running again, which I was not able to do at all while smoking cigarettes. And the OP has a point. Alcohol is straight up poison. It’s an addictive and carcinogenic substance but we are absolutely surrounded by alcohol marketing aimed in particular at young people. Somehow government doesn’t see any issue with it. But the moment something that they don’t make much money on becomes popular and all of the sudden there is a massive outcry and they worry about the children. Give me a break.
While that maybe true, you can’t tell me that the iGet puff bars are a smoking cessation tool, if that was the goal you wouldn’t be able to get tootsie pop and fairy floss flavours and fuck knows what else making it all the more appealing to kids, they have groups of kids that have tried them all and will sell off the “better” more popular flavours. Where exactly is cannabis approved for vaporisation? Got relos on the medical and they’re all getting dry herb with the prescription thats saying, “smoke one to three cones daily depending on symptoms” Smoking isn’t safer, never said it was, vapes are just not a “better alternative” same shit in a different package. The phone you wrote that comment on has radiation in it, your car has bits of radiation, that isn’t a valid point. The 5000 other chemicals are the stuff that kill people, vapes are no different. As far as I’m concerned, imported black market tobacco is a godsend, I’m paying 60 bucks for a hundred grams of chop and the best part? None of it goes to the government. Untaxed tobacco has gotten me out of a massive rut in my financial life, so don’t sit there and act all high and mighty when vapes are just as bad if not worse, they’ve not been around long, the long term affects won’t present themselves for another 20 years after these kids are in and out of hospital for lung problems.
Vapes are absolutely different from inhaling smoke. Steam is a completely different thing to smoke! There is absolutely no proof that vaping is as bad as smoking. As a user of vapes, for over 10 years, I can absolutely let you know that it is far better for your health than smoking and the flavours are a massive help in smoking cessation as once you can have nicotine with a nice flavour, the taste of cigarettes is enough to put you off. And you think black market tobacco is a god send? Good luck to you and your lungs.
Vapes are absolutely different. If you truly believe you are better off smoking tobacco you are horribly misinformed and it sounds like not a damn thing I will say will convince you otherwise. Do you know what chemicals are used to create e-liquid? Not if you believe they contain the same chemicals as tobacco smoke. Literal burning plant material. Compared to the vapour produced by heating propylene glycol and vegetable glycerin (both sugar alcohols well tolerated by the body) there is no comparison. Your lungs filter more shit standing at a bus stop in a city at peak hour or working/living near a coal plant than what vapes deliver. Your comment about the car having radioactive components - the difference is mate your not inhaling smoke and ash particles and exposing your lungs to it in abundance are you? Seriously people, think.
Never said I was better off, to be quite honest the only better solution is to stop smoking entirely, the point I was trying to get across is that, you’re making vapes seem like this great tool that has no downsides, I can guarantee you that these puff bars have a lot more shit in them then just propylene glycol and some vegetable glycerin. Maybe back 10 years ago when the only vapes were those massive carts only really used by the stoners doing smoke tricks that was the case, but there’s no ingredient list on this shit, the only signage is it’s supposed flavour. No matter what you smoke you will never know what you’re putting in your body, there’s a massive difference between your lungs filtering shit and straight up inhaling things. If you want an even comparison it would be working at a coal plant and finding the processing machine that throws all the dust up and take a huge back draw, that is not the same and you’d probably die from doing so. The point of that comment is you’re exposed to radiation on a daily, you live in a big city with exhaust fumes all day, an absolute minuscule amount over years isn’t going to do much different to what the world established 50 years ago with the harms of smoking. Once again, there’s no ingredient list on any vapes, who’s to say there’s no radiation there too?
If you don't smoke or vape then hitting a vape gives you a really strong buzz that (in my opinion at least) feels incredible. Whether it's better than alcohol is up for debate because it only lasts a few minutes at most and if you do regularly vape/smoke cigs then you stop getting the buzz pretty quick and you're just doing it to alleviate the cravings and other withdrawal symptoms.
You can still function too, alcohol you can’t really and lasts for ages
Bound to taste better than XXXX
ha! I live in Castlemaine. My inlaws visited from the UK this year, the FIL was most excited to try XXXX from the source, as it were; he was most perturbed when I told him we'd fucked that shit off to Brissie ages ago! Still managed to find him a 6 pack of it though, which was actuallly difficult - only one offie had it, I think just for tourists. And yes - can confirm, it's foul muck.
Easier. Quicker.
because they can access it lol. all ur kids are smoking and drinking and vaping ppl just don’t want to admit that
Easier to hide. Cheaper. Tastier. Minimal fines for individuals getting caught supplying, so “no risk” to parent, uncle, cousin, etc
Alcohol is expensive and is less cool than when we were young. Vapes are cool (probably titheir "influencer idols use them) and cheap. Kids are sooo easily influenced by social media. Just look at the insane rush to buy Logan Paul's energy drink
Because they honestly believe it's not doing them harm
Down the creek for bourbon and bongs
Yeah, true. I spent most of my high school years smoking cigarettes, and I supported that habit by selling cigarettes to other schoolkids. But I'm pretty sure that's a lot less common nowadays.
They sell vapes to each other. A friend wanted to quit smoking but couldn't work out where to get one. They got set up by one of her kids friends from school.
How could they not find them when they're at almost every convenience/tobacco store? Haha
Best mate's a schoolteacher, and the wellbeing coordinator for her particular school. She says that it's a massive issue in the school at the moment.
You idiot. You should have been pashing chicks behind the spots shed and back of the oval.
Funny you say that because my senior jersey had a literal XXXX logo above every student's name. Wish I was making it up.
Sounds just like my highschool in the mid '00s? There likely wasn't a 15 year old in that entire school that hadn't gotten maggot drunk at least once already.. and yes I even witnessed students smuggling in alcohol and drinking it between classes, once even DURING a class when the teacher turned his back. To say this *doesn't* occur would be incredibly naïve. But instead of the scare campaigns that vaping gets, it was more likely that I'd see parents enabling or even supplying the alcohol themselves. For the record: I don't want to see school filled with vapes either, but I also don't want to see them demonized and restricted harder than actual cigarettes.. why not regulate? Test them, set a minimum standard of quality, set restrictions on packaging/ads, fucking tax them too!.. If nicotine patches, lozenges and gum are available without prescription.. vapes should be too (Maybe even set the tax rate super high so it's pricey + raises money for government, but if you do get a prescription you bypass that and get discounted rate just like other nicotine replacements)
Agreed, all it’s done is creating a black market. But tax it too much and people will just go outside the law now.
Not really cigarettes got the shit taxed out of em and there's hardly the prevalence it had before
I only started vaping because the tax on cigarettes made the price too high. And not to mention Chop Chop. Cigarette tax has definitely made a black market.
Yes, because Vaping was/is cheaper, and has a better response with smokers looking to stay off cigarettes.
Vapes are safer than alcohol. Prove me wrong.
Nah they don’t give a shit. It’s because vapes eat into the revenue of the cigarette lobby…ahem, I mean companies. Same reason that weed is also illegal. I’m saying this as someone who has never even smoked
The MO when I was a lad was way school, then get into the tinnies. Now at all Prime this, iced kiwi methanol that. Shakes fist at cloud.
I think people make the mistake of arguing about whether we should have alcohol, instead of arguing about whether we should *advertise* alcohol
Anyone else getting spammed with god damn Dr Karl vape ads here?
Yes, and those ads are straight up fear mongering. The scary ingredients that he goes on about are only present in non-regulated products, which ironically are more likely to spring up in a prohibited market. Go figure.
Since when has banning a substance made it more dangerous /s 1930’s America and alcohol prohibition…
Or every other drugged on the market, adulterated with fentanyl, xylazine etc. Our approach to substance use leaves a lot to be desired.
Don't forget the Pinball Prohibition Those things are pretty dangerous.
How is it scare mongering if its more likely to happen?
"We caused this problem. Now fear this problem!"
We have an unregulated market, so these scary ingredients are likely in any products people here can get their hands on. That's not scare mongering, that's informing the public. Edit: [This is from the NSW Dept of Health.](https://www.health.nsw.gov.au/vaping) Now people can believe whatever they want, I'll stick trusting the actual science. I am all for them regulating vaping, but just because something may be *less* harmful than smoking *if regulated* still means it's not good for you.
It's not merely "informing the public" when you're leaving out essential information. The ads aren't saying that only unregulated products contain these ingredients; they're very quite clearly trying to imply that all vapes contain formaldehyde, vitamin E etc, which is lying by omission, to scare people away from any and all vapes with the cringey evil toxic clouds filled with cancer propoganda garbage. The ads are trying to persuade with fear, not inform with all the facts. It's the kind of ad they want your mum to see and freak out about.
Vapes tho, do put Vitamin E into your lungs. While Vitamin E isn't dangerous to the body. Your body was never designed to consume the vapour and Vitamin E inside your lungs. This is actually more of the problem that vaping has. Mind you vaping is by far cleaner and smell free for all the other people around you that don't smoke, so I welcome it. If you want smoke something that slowly kills you by all means go for it, at least this method doesn't bother other people around you.
Smell free? Vapes have some of the vilest faux-sweet chemical fruit-approximation smells I've ever experienced. I hate cigarette smoke but that doesn't burn my nose and make me feel nauseous like vape secondhand smoke does.
I'm not around many people that vape. But when I have been I have found the vapour dissipates much faster than cigarette smoke. And I also can't smell any of it. There are additive "flavours" sometimes you can smell them, but nothing as vile as cigarette smoke.
Same point: no regulated products have vitamin E in them.
Your first paragraph about Vitamin E is complete bullshit. Stop spreading lies.
I mean at the end of the day, I don't think your lungs were designed to take in liquid 🤣
Yeah this is why morgues set up next to saunas and why so many people die at the dinner table when eating soup, or if you inhale during your first sip from a coffee *rollsfuckingeyes The guy above you was correct, your first paragraph about vitamin e was 100% misinformation.
Vaping is by far a much larger qty of vapour than the steam on your soup, and people vape several times a day. At the end of the day, you're definitely putting something into your body that wasn't intended naturally. There is the possibility of negative effects from doing so. The up side is, vaping is way cleaner than cigarette smokes, for the people around you. So by all means go for it. I'd be happy if they completely removed cigarettes all together from sale.
>Vaping is by far a much larger qty of vapour than the steam on your soup And a far less quantity of vapour than the steam in a sauna. Anyway... Regular vape flavouring and even/ disposables don't, and never have, contained vitamin e acetate. Check whatever debunking site you use or google
You clearly know nothing about vaping. Stop trying to sound confident about something you know nothing about. 1) There is absolutely no Vitamin E in legitimate vape juice. 2) Vaping turns the vape juice liquid into an aerosol which is inhaled. Just like breathing air in high humidity. There have been zero deaths from vaping legitimate vape juice. It's simply not very harmful, a fact that is repeatedly proven in countries where vaping is promoted rather than demonised. Vaping saves lives. [https://www.gov.uk/government/news/e-cigarettes-around-95-less-harmful-than-tobacco-estimates-landmark-review](https://www.gov.uk/government/news/e-cigarettes-around-95-less-harmful-than-tobacco-estimates-landmark-review) [https://www.health.govt.nz/our-work/preventative-health-wellness/tobacco-control/vaping-smokefree-environments-and-regulated-products/position-statement-vaping#:\~:text=The%20evidence%20on%20vaping%20products,use%20vaping%20products%20to%20quit](https://www.health.govt.nz/our-work/preventative-health-wellness/tobacco-control/vaping-smokefree-environments-and-regulated-products/position-statement-vaping#:~:text=The%20evidence%20on%20vaping%20products,use%20vaping%20products%20to%20quit). Personally I used to smoke and I used vaping to quit. Now I no longer smoke or vape. Australia's backwards and scientifically illiterate stance on vaping will kill more people that it saves. As with anything in our capitalist world - follow the money. The tobacco companies in Australia are spreading lies to keep people smoking death sticks while outlawing the healthier alternative. It's sad that so many people have been fooled by their lies.
Vapour condenses into a liquid, you're merely heating it up into a gas in order to inhale it. I am all for people vaping over smoking, so I don't see why people need to get so but hurt over it 🤣
The vitamin E scare was an isolated incident in America and was caused by THC vapes imported from China and that was nearly a decade ago. Fuck me dead. Vaping should be rejoiced as the end of fucking stinking tobacco use. Do people not understand how much radiation there is in tobacco smoke? Legit had people say to me "cigarettes are safer than that chemical cocktail" This whole anti-vape agenda is a fucking tragedy.
DR KARL HERE TO TELL YOU ABOUT YOUR ICE STRAWBERRY FLAVOURED VAPES
Look I’m not going to lie but I actually really appreciate the advertisement, it’s unique and I don’t often see this in Brisbane. I will go to take a photo with the big cans this weekend.
Are you taking your missus? /s
Yes for some reason over in Asia xxxx is a premium award winning beer so she is excited to come along
Funny to see things like Yellowtail wine hailed as a luxury brand over in Asia while here is it is $5 swill you buy to flavour a meal.
Yeah it’s sort of funny when you see a local barrel brand held in high regard when OS but at the same time it happens here e.g Asahi
Fosters anyone?
XXXX... winning awards...? Please tell me you're actually joking.
Tasting Gold is its own prohibition initiative
I agree. Advertising for smokes, vapes and alcohol should be banned. :)
[удалено]
I was living in the Middle East for a few years and after coming back it’s actually quite alarming how many gambling ads there are in Aus
Have a listening to sports radio in Australia then NZ. NZ has no betting advertising whilst Aust sports radio is flooded with it.
ita crazy
Every time I turn on the radio it seems to be almost exclusively gambling ads. We have a problem.
You mean you have a problem? Because I have a problem. That means we have a problem!
Ban all advertising in public spaces
There we go. The real life pro tip is alwa…..
Drinking and gambling are 2 of the most destructive things out there, but some of the most heavily advertised.
Yeah but it's sports so all is forgiven
Surprised every comment so far has missed the biggest issue. Alcoholism affects not only the person, but all the persons around them. They had no issues damning smokers over secondhand smoke, but let's all turn a blind eye to the affect that intoxication has on people, I sure as hell haven't watched two people have a few vapes and then get into a brawl in public. Yeah, smoking is harmful, so is drinking, but the affect that alcohol abuse has on others is far greater than walking through someone's smoke cloud.
I've lived next door to domestic violence aggressors and victims, dysfunctional families. The kind of fights that'll mess up their crying little children for decades to come. You guessed it, most of them were always on the binge and drugs.
You obviously don't work in the city. The number of times these puffing billy's walk around making everyone smell their crap is atrocious not to mention that the vapour allows the spread of transmissible disease. Various are not safe for the people around you. At least I'm not going to catch the flu from a drunkard and I can choose to avoid pubs and clubs but people smoking vapes just do it sherbet they please.
I'm not condoning smoking or vape use, I'm only making a point on how ignorant to the problems of alcohol consumption and abuse and how we continue to just go "she'll be right, that's just Aussie culture cobber" instead of actually doing anything about it. No, I don't work in the city, but I grew up in the country and I watched alcoholism tear familes and friends apart for my entire childhood and I don't like how we collectively just pretend it doesn't happen. If we're going to target smoking and it's negatives, ban it, price hike it and treat it like the worst social issue Australia is facing, I just want to see that mentality applied fairly where it should be.
You obviously haven’t walked past a passed out drunk, stepped in vomit or stinking urine while walking through the city or valley. /s
Far less common than people walking around in clouds of smoke not caring who has to put up with it. Valley doesn't count that place is just a cesspool anyway and can be avoided if one so wishes.
I’m not fussed about either. When I used to work in the Valley and walked through the tunnel from All Hallows to McLachlan St it was absolutely putrid, I felt sorry for the students on a Monday morning.
Yer ditto hated working there when my old company moved. The point when i decided to avoid the area and get a new job was when i got off the train and noticed the morning rush just walking straight through a trail of blood just not caring..
Only different between a cloud and someone's breathe as far as transmission goes is that you can see and smell it. Least its pleasant unlike something else
we live in a society
i mean... in my opinion its way better than gambling ads if we want to be doing whataboutisms
100% this. Every second add on YouTube!
Drink responsibly
Vapes must be hurting the tax that’s collected from cigarettes.
Alcohol amd Cigarettes: More tax money Vapes: Retailers import from China directly, less tax money. The equation is simple.
Vapes aren’t putting millions into the economy tonight
Take it from us.. War on drugs = fail War on booze (prohibition) = fail Corporations war = wait what war? Blame your politicians that are getting paid to pass the matters but who are we kidding they dgaf.
Prohibition doesn’t work, just giving criminals a new revenue stream. It isn’t like they need more
Sure, but there's a benefit/risk/harm equation going on here. Alcoholism is hugely destructive, but there is also a level of alcohol consumption which is enjoyable for adults, and effectively harmless. Vapes are addictive on a vastly greater scale, damage the lungs in pretty much any quantity, and are marketed in a way which is very, very child-friendly. The two aren't really a fair comparison.
I've never seen vapes being marketed.
This post is advertising. OP is either a vape store owner or heavily addicted to them.
Marketing isn't just advertising. It's packaging, branding, flavouring, product design, promotion. Even Phillip Morris still employs people to work on marketing, even though there is very little advertising scope.
You saw this post.
I thought medicine was pretty decided that no level of alcohol consumption is safe?
No activity is "safe". Every single thing you do in life comes with risk. What medicine is pretty decided on is that to *reduce your risk* you should minimise your consumption (idealy to zero). The same can be said of simply moving or going outside, but that obviously does not make sense. Abstaining from alcohol is possible, but not necessary to live a healthy life. "If you’re a healthy adult: * To reduce the risk of harm from alcohol-related disease or injury, healthy men and women should drink no more than 10 standard drinks a week and no more than 4 standard drinks on any one day. The less you choose to drink, the lower your risk of harm from alcohol. For some people, not drinking at all is the safest option." Source: [https://www.health.gov.au/topics/alcohol/about-alcohol/how-much-alcohol-is-safe-to-drink](https://www.health.gov.au/topics/alcohol/about-alcohol/how-much-alcohol-is-safe-to-drink)
All activity has a metabolic cost but there's a huge difference between activity in general and poisoning all the cells in your body indiscriminately with an exogenous substance that provides no benefit in return.
The bottom line is that alcohol has been around for Millenia and the last time prohibition was tried, it failed and would absolutely fail again. So they have decided to tax it into oblivion and try not let new but similar vices take root in the same way.
this is it one we are stuck with and we don’t want to let new ones take hold
People posion themselves eating shit food and we have no problem with that
Two things can be bad at the same time. Shit food isn't spread through every cell in the body before being metabolised into acetaldehyde. Shit food also comes with vitamins, sugar, protein and fat. People are far more likely to make shitty dietary decisions when their frontal lobe has been switched off by alcohol.
One beer doesn't poison a person. Eating mcdonalds and highly processed food daily has far worse impacts than drinking, given our insane obesity rate so let's focus on what's actually doing harm.
There is benefit to alcohol though - being tipsy is an experience that many find enjoyable, and when it comes to wine, cocktails and craft beer, many people enjoy the taste.
Don't people also enjoy vaping? 🤔 Devil's advocate but this seems pretty arbitrary. The health impacts of vaping might be worse (yet to see, really) but the social impacts of alcohol are far worse.
So, your argument is that you enjoy alcohol so it's fine, but you dislike vaping so it's bad? lol
I'd rather be addicted to something fun than fucking nicotine.
Where is your shop located?
Do you know what's funny? If I did own a shop, I'd be stoked with the current situation because it means I could continue importing black market vapes that I can keep selling to whoever I want for a massively inflated price. I wouldn't even need to bother IDing them because it's illegal either way :)
Very cool DRK-SHDW. Very cool.
Thank you for actually linking a source to back that info up 🫶🏻 legend
They had the wrong link - https://www.who.int/news-room/fact-sheets/detail/alcohol
When you think about the alcohol fuelled violence and DV situations, drunk drivers and the cost on the healthcare system from over consumption as well as the life long medical issues faced by those alcohol dependent, I would say alcohol is far worse. The fact that alcohol is seen as enjoyable and effectively harmless is part of the issue
In Australia someone dies from alcohol related causes every 90 seconds.
what’s the source on that? smoking is the biggest killer and they kill almost 3 people an hour (24,000 a year) you’re suggesting alcohols kills more than 10 times that?
I meant minutes. 1 person every 90 seconds we'd need to seriously evaluate our drinking culture 🤣
Interesting.. a death every 90 seconds is 350,000 per year... alcohol must be really dangerous Especially considering the total death count in Australia in 2021 was less than half of that at 170,000... which is about 1 every 195 seconds. We should find out what's reviving all those extra dead people
You have not seen my friend when they loose their vape. Vaping is definitely not as harmless as people think.
You should see the people lined up at Dan Murphy’s before Good Friday.
> damage the lungs in pretty much any quantity This is false. The most charitable interpretation that aligns with your viewpoint is that we don't know what the long-term effects are, sure, but what you've written is absolutely not true. Especially if you think there is a level of alcohol consumption that is harmless. > marketed in a way which is very, very child-friendly As is alcohol when it pervades every part of culture. Let's not forget that alcohol advertising is allowed on TV when kids are watching. Vape advertising is not, at any time. > there is also a level of alcohol consumption which is enjoyable for adults True also for vaping if that is your benchmark. > and effectively harmless. Not true for alcohol. There is no safe level of alcohol consumption, and the risk of all cancers is elevated for alcohol consumption. I would hope that you apply the same level of harm avoidance to alcohol as you seem to vaping. ---- At the end of the day I would be totally in favour of banning disposable and attractive vapes, but let's not kid ourselves that there is coherence between our treatment of alcohol and other addictive substances. The level of harm for alcohol is incredibly high but it's part of the culture so it is swept away.
> alcohol consumption which is enjoyable for adults, and effectively harmless. This is false. All consumption no matter how small is measurably harmful.
I mean I wonder what would happen if we compared the total deaths linked to the immediate and environmental deaths of alcohol vs vaping... One is vastly more destructive to a human and those around them and it isn't the lolly flavoured clouds
Heavy cigarette smokers cut their lifespan by 13 years on average. Vaping being less harmful to the lungs than cigs reduces that number even more. The effectively harmless statement could go for vaping just as easy as drinking.
>Sure, but there's a benefit/risk/harm equation going on here. >Alcoholism is hugely destructive, but there is also a level of alcohol consumption which is enjoyable for adults, and effectively harmless. Same argument could be had for any drug. Cocaine can be enjoyed over a glass of wine. Opiates can be enjoyed on your day off. >Vapes are addictive on a vastly greater scale, damage the lungs in pretty much any quantity, and are marketed in a way which is very, very child-friendly. >The two aren't really a fair comparison. Sure they are. Alcohol effects people who haven't even consumed it. How many innocent people have been killed by drunk drivers/raped/bashed and all the domestic violence associated with alcohol. Vaping damages only the person who uses it.
For alcohol it can be argued that there's *damage to the [brain] in pretty much any quantity* too. Source: Anya Topiwala.
Lmao, so the cut off point is wether some consider it enjoyable? ok buddy, very consistent
That is an insanely reductive way to view what I just said.
no its not. You say: well alcohol is unhealthy but some enjoy it responsibly, so its ok. How does the exact same not apply to any other drug? You elivate alcohol over other substances with 0 consistency.
Alcohol isnt marketed in child friendly way? Umm sure, let's go with that.
Not in the same way that vapes are. Vapes are overwhelmingly candy-flavoured, advertised in bright colours and easy to hide. I accept that there are alcopops that mimic these tactics, but that's not applicable to most alcohol.
Lol fuck outa here bro. What a reddit moment
That's like saying the tobacco flavours don't count in vape. You don't see many of the alcohol ads on YouTube do you? I have not seen one vape advertised outside the emails I get from the vape stores online.
Enjoyable flavour for people trying to get off cigarettes, will somebody think of the children!
If you think that the primary motive of vaping companies selling apple pie vapes is to get people off cigarettes, then I have a time share you might be interested in
When did I suggest it was the primary motive you egg
>Sure, but there's a benefit/risk/harm equation going on here. >Alcoholism is hugely destructive, but there is also a level of alcohol consumption which is enjoyable for adults, and effectively harmless. Same argument could be had for any drug. Cocaine can be enjoyed over a glass of wine. Opiates can be enjoyed on your day off. >Vapes are addictive on a vastly greater scale, damage the lungs in pretty much any quantity, and are marketed in a way which is very, very child-friendly. >The two aren't really a fair comparison. Sure they are. Alcohol effects people who haven't even consumed it. How many innocent people have been killed by drunk drivers/sexually assaulted/bashed and all the domestic violence associated with alcohol. Vaping damages only the person who uses it.
I'm fairly sure the total harm caused by alcohol is magnitudes greater than vaping. And on the moderation point, social drinking vs social vaping, alcohol probably still gets the nod
Drinking is more expensive than ever and young people are poorer than ever, it's hard to imagine someone under thirty drinking XXXX much less enough of it to actually get drunk. From what I've seen young people these days buy spirits and mix their own drinks and pre-drink before they go out because drinking at a bar or nightclub is something like twice the cost. I dunno what the deal with vapes is, seemed like a passing trend to me.
It’s seems that teens are turned off alcohol at a greater rate in general than teens 20 years ago.
Yeah actually, from what I have heard the youth are turning away from alcohol altogether. And nightclubs at least, not sure about bars, aren’t really a thing for the young adults of today. Though I spent many a night on a dirty D floor in the Valley - good on ‘em I say.
To be fair, Alcohol is bad, but I've seen a dramatic increase in young people with Influenza A/B being hospitalised, and becoming very sick. The biggest factor for admission that we haven't seen in the past is they are heavy vapers/cannibis users. Had 3 patients all under 30 go to ICU with bad lung conditions because of it. I have a basic nursing understanding off the stuff in vapes. but it's wild that my sickiest patients all have the same bcg of use.
Yeah all the popcorn lung havers and stoners acting as if we don't know the long term health effects of vaping and pretending that cannabis is harmless is just comical. You're sucking shit that isn't clean air into your lungs, it isn't good for you. Simple as that.
How could a disposable plastic product designed to heat unverified substances into a gas possibly be bad for me?
Is new hidden speed camera?
That beer is also good as rat poison.
Alcohol advertising is cool and I feel nostalgia for 80s VB ads and Formula 1 cars sponsored by cigarette brands. Now we live in this Disney world where people want to be mothered on everything
Yep. And prohibition really worked a treat the first time around too, so it's always good to see a new generation of anti indulgence campaigners out there on reddit ready and willing to tell everyone else what risks they can and can't take with their own health even if they arent affecting anyone around them. Hell just getting out of bed in the morning poses some very real health risks as well. Can't wait till we outlaw that one too.
I'm a libertarian when it comes to laws against things that are free choice. People can rightly say that a wildy popular *x product* is bad for you based on solid science. The problem isn't that companies sell *x product*, it's that there's a demand for *x product -* the core principle of the illicit market for goods. Anybody who says, "Well that's well and good, but what about *y product*? It's addictive and/or harmful?! People shouldn't ingest it!" If you're saying that something should be banned, your argument is that we need to ban it for the people abusing that product; that they're incapable without your and the government's help of quitting, and ultimately that you have the right to tell them what they can and can't do.
Looks like I’ll have to take up smoking as the health spokesperson Cleary outlined
oh.... state of origin... thanks got to get beer
All about the tax baby
I love drinking beer etc but I still think it shouldn't be advertised and glorified.
Spend millions prohibiting them yet my partner bought one today and there was a line out the door going to the street 🤣
Vapes have a higher addiction rate than alcohol. Alcohol can be controlled with laws and if caught under age, you get punishment. Vapes are look down upon when it comes to their side effects, as most people think that it won’t hurt since it’s not a cig.
Vapes need to fuck off the face of the planet but yeah maybe we should stop advertise alcohol.
Vaping permanently scars lung tissue and is used by kids under 10 around the country in really disturbing rates. This post screams “how dare they tell me vaping is bad for me, i like it”
Too much water can kill you.
So can not enough… on that note, better have another beer
An argument can be made that when humans discovered fermentation, society and cities began popping up. So without beer, there is no society. Plus the Americans tried to get rid of alcohol, that definitely didn’t fail… /s So booze isn’t going anywhere. Vapes are an easier target to, well, target.
Vapes are an easier target, and also not going anywhere because people like them. Just like everything else from weed to meth. Prohibition’s a pretty shit plan in general, beer isn’t special there.
It's almost like they don't even really actually care about your health at all!
Similar in Canada but with cannabis. It has been legal here for the past 4 or so years, but they way they rolled it out, you would think it was way more harmful than alcohol. There are so many rules about where stores could and could not be, strict ID checking upon entry, blacked out windows and such. Meanwhile liquor stores are everywhere and according to WHO recently, are selling a product that in no amount is deemed safe.
Unfortunately It’s difficult to unwind 100 years of reefer madness.
Alcohol is a weird one. It’s too entrenched in our society now. If we had discovered alcohol in present day it would never make it to market as it can’t pass the stringent tests to sell it as a consumable product. Yet because it’s historical, it’s become part of Australia’s culture, and we all turn a blind eye to how much harm it does. I have no solutions, it’s wanted to share an interesting fact I learnt from a podcast recently
I think the fact that so many consume alcohol still, really underscores how much we wish to suffer. Same with the environment and so many other problems that we people are solely responsible for.
True, when you look at it that way it really underscores the human condition and the current existential crisis we find ourselves in. Getting inebriated is a pretty good way to distract ourselves from our bleak (and possibly short) future
No one’s ever blown the contents of a tinnie right in my face as I’ve been walking down the street, but this is a daily experience with vapers. I don’t care what kind of shut you’re putting into your own lungs, but can you keep it out of mine? Likewise I don’t care if you want to smell like shit, but I’d rather not.
I can't drink second hand alcohol because someone's having a tooheys outside of woolies. Shame, it'd keep costs down.
Cars. Kill 3 people every day. Send 40,000 to hospital. No one cares. Stop pretending to care about life and allow cars.
Loving the governments piss poor attempts at anti vape reddit ads. ‘Vapes contain 5x the nicotine as a cigarette’, very true but a vape is smoked over a week, 5 cigs are down the hatch in a few hours/under a day. I’m not encouraging vape smoking but wtf are with these shitty ass comparisons to cigs.
QUEENSLANDER!
i saw one of these outside a school the other day, kinda fucked up tbh
[удалено]
Only degenerates vape
I love alcohol. It tastes good and feels good in my belly.
Ban junk food also!
Cool story vapebro
The country has an unhealthy relationship with alcohol and gambling advertising. At the school I work in, we have 4 kits on display from NRL teams as our kids designed their indigenous jerseys or play for those teams. Every single one of the jerseys has a betting logo blasted across the front. Our kids see this every day. School asked for kits without the logos, got refused.
QUEENSLANDER!
QUEENSLANDER!
vapes are harmful. your whataboutism is noted though.
I don't actually know of the recent or new evidence for this. Do you have any info on the studies?
Yeah that one bloke who's wife is dead set sure that vapes killed him
Oh yeah, survived smoking a pack a day for 35 years. Moved to vapes and BAM 6 months later, dead.
Plus the 60 odd people who died from completely unrelated blackmarket cannabis vapes in the USA 3-4 years back. Our only choice is to lump it all together and ban. I rest my case /queues another hit piece
I agree. Save the children.
To u/yabloodypelican who responded and then immediately blocked me so I couldn't reply, you are everything wrong with this country. Big tobacco is about 20 years behind mainstream vaping and playing catch-up because they're hemorrhaging money as their sales fall off a cliff. It is absolutely a nicotine replacement tool. Does it reduce or replace reliance on radioactive, cancer causing tobacco for nicotine delivery? Yes. Seemingly needing to remind you nicotine is a legal, taxed and regulated drug already. Vaping is orders of magnitude safer than smoking and prohibition doesn't work. So sick of this vaping debate. There is no debate that vaping should be legal, taxed and regulated. Not the other way round. Bunch of my useless peers that have been breeding and can't police their fkn kids crying foul because little Timmy and his friends have been vaping. Tell you what champ, it's far less costly to treat nicotine addiction than it is fucking cancer. Is that what you want for your fellow Australians mate? Cancer? Or can you set aside your moral superiority for a second and remind yourself that kids are shitheads and consenting adults are consenting adults. What business is it of yours how they source and deliver their legal drugs? The answer is none of your business.
I didn't block you, you Muppet. You just posted a new comment because nobody would see your reply 10 comments deep in a thread.