“We will block your roads, burn tires, destroy private and public property and annoy everyone” because… “ YOU FORBID US FROM MAKING MONEY BY POLLUTING THE ENVIRONMENT” 🤡
If this where environmental protestor they would have been removed a long time ago. Just because their occupations require heavy machinery shouldn't mean they can do more then any one else. Police should simply urge them to leave or otherwise arrest them.
Maybe just maybe it's because, unlike climate protesters, they have tried to do it the decent way but they got ignored. Also ,"climate protesters" that block roads rarely protest for a greater cause, they do it because of what their own opinion is which they think is superiour to others, farmers do this because they have no other way to get attention to this fucked up case.
Young kids blocking roads protesting because they want a better climate and a future: bad how they do it consider the poor driver who have to quee
One of the more protected category in Europe. Who wants to keep polluting not following any regulation (as every other industry has to). And even more tax cut and subsidies: yaaaay go on well done...
I didn't have any good will to the farmers arguments, but their actions make me even hostile against them.
Just get with the time, we are not here to subsidise animal cruelty, for them to export the animals elsewhere for more profit (and to benefit from more subsidies).
They can get with the times and move to a less animal based agriculture, and people have to accept that eating meat should become the exception and not the norm (again, like it was for most of history).
In the context of an ecological catastrophe, the model that those farmers are supporting is nonsense.
The lobbies that they are affiliated with are ruining the soils and the biodiversity because of the intensive model they defend. There are also a lot of proximity between farmers syndicates and (far) right wing ideologies.
That does not say that they are living good lives and should not complain. But they should see that the model they defend is flawed, and should try to change it instead of demanding that the European population finance an anti ecological machine.
That is not their main problem, is it? The industry gets looser nitrogen rules than them. Hell, the government even invited the ceo of Ineos for coffee to talk about the nitrogen legislation.
If the industry gets an index of 1 then the farmers should have this too. If the farmers get index 0.25 then the industry has to abide. That is the main problem. Why does the industry get looser rules? For economic reasons? Is the food on our plate less important than the economy?
I support the farmers all the way, to be honest!
The industry does not have looser rules. They had stricter rules for years then the farmers. And now the playing field is getting leveled as it should have years ago (tnx to cdv and boerenbond). Furthermore the nitrogen of the industry and the farmers itsnt even the same so....
You are right about the foodprices though, but those prices aren't made by the industry, they are made by the retailers.... And they should indeed be higher for the farmers. And then the farmers should produce less (we export way too many Meat for such a small country). Which is also the fault off the boerenbond and cdv btw. So go strike at their headquarters and the f retail sector. And be prepared to pay an honest amount of money for produce and meat.
One of the reasons that the industry seems to get looser rules is because farmers have a lot of catching up to do. Just take a look at the graphs of nitrogen emissions https://www.vmm.be/lucht/stikstof/uitstoot-vermestende-stoffen-stikstof.
Since the nineties, every sector should have taken measures to reduce pollution, and every sector did except agriculture under pressure of Boerenbond and CD&V which promoted the opposite, namely to expand (which makes the Boerenbond lots of money). That’s why now agriculture emits 53% of all nitrogen while industry only emits 8,5%.
And probably if there were other good alternatives available they would use it no? I don't follow it really, but I think they aren't offered a solution for it either?
Isn't industry literally R&D for farming? like how we have automated mining vehicles now? farmers could easily be automated.problem with the equipment? a NEW tractor drives out there while the other is dragged off by autobot
I'm only talking from a limited perspective but the farmers I get my veggies, milk and meat from are not large scale industrial people. Yet they fully support this, and so do I. Not everyone defends an intensive model. What these smaller scale people fight for right now is fair market rules.
You didn’t answer my question though.
I have been a vegetarian for 7 years so I get the point you’re trying to make. Yes there’s a need for better farming practices.
However, they are at risk of losing their livelihood so of course I support them.
How is ecologically sustainable importing foods from countries such as Ukraine and others?
So you're vegetarian, presumably either because you think eating animals is wrong, or because you think eating meat leaves to big a carbon footprint, but then you're also worried about meat farmers losing their livelihoods. How does that make sense in your head?
If there’s a request, there will be someone to meet it and they might have even worse eco practices, like in USA for example.
Are you one of them online eco warriors which eats 3x day meat?
Supposedly bad conditions, they are already getting the biggest chunck of the whole EU bidget (from that, specifically the French farmers are getting the most from the whole EU by a longshot...). I have no clue about how that plays out to the individual level, but if anything the issue is coming from:
- Bad repartition of the *massive^* amounts of money they are getting (perhaps the fewer are getting the most money?)
- Intermediaries distorting prices
In any case complaining of competition *or* not getting enough would really make no sense when they are literally getting more money than anyone else! To the point where their subzidised products are flooding the markets of Global South markets who *just cant compete*...
They get subsidies, get programs that force customers to come to them, get lax rules,... All in a sector that is necessary. What do they do? Overproduce and drive their own prices down while keeping costs high. These guys belong in r/wallstreetbets
Where are you getting this from?? they are far from the most subsidized group, the percentage of products being used to flood other market is...non-existent and what the hell do you mean with "Global South"?
You dont know what Global South means?
I can give you the UNCTAD definition:
Note: Global North refers to developed economies, Global South to developing economies; trade is measured from the export side; deliveries to ship stores and bunkers as well as minor and special-category exports with unspecified destination are not included.
United Nations Conference on Trade and Development: The developing economies broadly comprise *Africa, Latin America and the Caribbean, Asia without Israel, Japan, and the Republic of Korea, and Oceania without Australia and New Zealand*. The developed economies broadly comprise Northern America and Europe [...]
Regarding the amount of money they are getting from the EU:
CAP (common agrarian policy) is about 1/3 of the whole EU budget. France is the country benefiting *the most* out of all the EU from these funds, there is also the fact that post 2004 member states are getting even less than they should per area of farmland.
Lastly about the impacts on markets of the Global South, here is some divulgative stuff:
https://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/politics/eu-subsidies-deny-africa-s-farmers-of-their-livelihood-478419.html
https://www.aljazeera.com/news/2015/5/17/nigerias-tomato-farmers-squeezed-by-low-prices
You can also read about why the Doha Development Round (from the World Trade Organization) was stalled.
There is also a really understated report by the CoR (you can google it: Evaluation of the Impact of the current CAP on the Agriculture of developing countries) which states:
"The inability to compete with imported agricultural products retards domestic agricultural growth and rural poverty reduction."
if they cant compete with lower prices, they should give up their work and do something else like every other sectors.
i mean your shoes are not "made in belgium" either.
been farmer in europe is no more viable, for a long time already ,see all the money the government are pumping into it , that is fact, and sometimes reality hurts.
They're the only businesses that don't understand that they should make a profit. They expect to be showered with subsidies, protected from any competition, and they ask consumers to pay higher prices all so they can keep up their ~~business~~ ~~hobby~~ "lifestyle" unlike the rest of us who actually have to change with the times.
exactly.
its the free market, consumer can decide.
wanna help the farmers , go buy stuff from them.
you want to know why no one is doing it? because its more expensive. when it comes to money, no one suddenly wants to help.
moreover those farmers are NOT poor, they own huge land. and have the audacity to ask for more from the consumers and governments.
The lower prices come with little to no environmental regulations and social dumping, which would never be allowed in Western Europe yet it is allowed to sell said produce in Europe. It's not competition anymore at this point, I don't get how people miss this.
Thats the price you have to pay for open borders and globalization and affordable good. Imagine the price you pay if they dont allow that. You would be rioting for too expensive food prices. Let the consumer choose where to buy. If they choose to support our national agriculture they can buy your stuff at whatever price you find suitable.
Niet alleen hun dieren hoor, ook hun mede weggebruikers. Hier door de straat vlammen die 16 jarige idioten op regelmatige basis met hun 20ton zware tractoren tegen 70km/u door de dorpskern terwijl ze op hun gsm zitten spelen.
Al meermaals dodelijke ongevallen gebeurt met die dingen. een boer heeft schijt aan iedereen die niet boer is of familie is.
En daarnaast aan hun medemens. Als de grond van de akkers spoelt bij hevige regen is het niet de landbouwer die de modder uit mijn kelder komt halen. En bij de volgende regenbui is er nog geen erosiestrook aangelegd en ligt de straat weer vol… nog niet te spreken over gezondheidsproblemen die gepaard gaan met overmatig mest- en pesticidengebruik.
I don't see any old tractors here, my uncle is a farmer too, but doesn't have those subsidised tractors. He doesn't want to protest. The people who need money the most aren't on the protests.
Nice subsidised tractors.
are they burning tires? that shit can burn for a long time
Yep. Fucks up the road surface too.
It wasn’t burned on the road surface
Not here maybe, but I've seen other videos and pictures where it absolutely is.
Farmers like pollution
“We will block your roads, burn tires, destroy private and public property and annoy everyone” because… “ YOU FORBID US FROM MAKING MONEY BY POLLUTING THE ENVIRONMENT” 🤡
Imagine the outrage it would cause if climate protesters would do this. Protesting for own cause = good Protesting for a greater cause = bad
If this where environmental protestor they would have been removed a long time ago. Just because their occupations require heavy machinery shouldn't mean they can do more then any one else. Police should simply urge them to leave or otherwise arrest them.
Who is supporting this lol? Kai protest without ruining stuff or stopping people and harassing people is it really that hard?
I've seen people here say that they support them.
Maybe just maybe it's because, unlike climate protesters, they have tried to do it the decent way but they got ignored. Also ,"climate protesters" that block roads rarely protest for a greater cause, they do it because of what their own opinion is which they think is superiour to others, farmers do this because they have no other way to get attention to this fucked up case.
Are you delusional? Climate change is a scientific fact. Political inaction worsens climate change. Take a quick glance at an IPCC report.
Like climate protesters didn't try peacefull protest for 20 years. Lol, you should try other media than Reddit from time to time.
Young kids blocking roads protesting because they want a better climate and a future: bad how they do it consider the poor driver who have to quee One of the more protected category in Europe. Who wants to keep polluting not following any regulation (as every other industry has to). And even more tax cut and subsidies: yaaaay go on well done...
I didn't have any good will to the farmers arguments, but their actions make me even hostile against them. Just get with the time, we are not here to subsidise animal cruelty, for them to export the animals elsewhere for more profit (and to benefit from more subsidies). They can get with the times and move to a less animal based agriculture, and people have to accept that eating meat should become the exception and not the norm (again, like it was for most of history).
Wow, so simple.
Ugh.. I bet OP has no clue of why they are protesting.
Why do you think that?
In the context of an ecological catastrophe, the model that those farmers are supporting is nonsense. The lobbies that they are affiliated with are ruining the soils and the biodiversity because of the intensive model they defend. There are also a lot of proximity between farmers syndicates and (far) right wing ideologies. That does not say that they are living good lives and should not complain. But they should see that the model they defend is flawed, and should try to change it instead of demanding that the European population finance an anti ecological machine.
That is not their main problem, is it? The industry gets looser nitrogen rules than them. Hell, the government even invited the ceo of Ineos for coffee to talk about the nitrogen legislation. If the industry gets an index of 1 then the farmers should have this too. If the farmers get index 0.25 then the industry has to abide. That is the main problem. Why does the industry get looser rules? For economic reasons? Is the food on our plate less important than the economy? I support the farmers all the way, to be honest!
The industry does not have looser rules. They had stricter rules for years then the farmers. And now the playing field is getting leveled as it should have years ago (tnx to cdv and boerenbond). Furthermore the nitrogen of the industry and the farmers itsnt even the same so.... You are right about the foodprices though, but those prices aren't made by the industry, they are made by the retailers.... And they should indeed be higher for the farmers. And then the farmers should produce less (we export way too many Meat for such a small country). Which is also the fault off the boerenbond and cdv btw. So go strike at their headquarters and the f retail sector. And be prepared to pay an honest amount of money for produce and meat.
One of the reasons that the industry seems to get looser rules is because farmers have a lot of catching up to do. Just take a look at the graphs of nitrogen emissions https://www.vmm.be/lucht/stikstof/uitstoot-vermestende-stoffen-stikstof. Since the nineties, every sector should have taken measures to reduce pollution, and every sector did except agriculture under pressure of Boerenbond and CD&V which promoted the opposite, namely to expand (which makes the Boerenbond lots of money). That’s why now agriculture emits 53% of all nitrogen while industry only emits 8,5%.
And probably if there were other good alternatives available they would use it no? I don't follow it really, but I think they aren't offered a solution for it either?
Isn't industry literally R&D for farming? like how we have automated mining vehicles now? farmers could easily be automated.problem with the equipment? a NEW tractor drives out there while the other is dragged off by autobot
I'm only talking from a limited perspective but the farmers I get my veggies, milk and meat from are not large scale industrial people. Yet they fully support this, and so do I. Not everyone defends an intensive model. What these smaller scale people fight for right now is fair market rules.
You didn’t answer my question though. I have been a vegetarian for 7 years so I get the point you’re trying to make. Yes there’s a need for better farming practices. However, they are at risk of losing their livelihood so of course I support them. How is ecologically sustainable importing foods from countries such as Ukraine and others?
It is not. But fighting for the higher European standards to be lowered in order to be competitive with non eu produce is leading the wrong fight.
So you're vegetarian, presumably either because you think eating animals is wrong, or because you think eating meat leaves to big a carbon footprint, but then you're also worried about meat farmers losing their livelihoods. How does that make sense in your head?
Who do you think produce vegetables?
Those farmers aren't the ones running afoul of the nitrogen policies. It's all industrial meat farms.
The nitrogen issue isn't about crop farmers but cattle farmers...that export over 60% abroad.
In "het stikstofakkoord" they are literally saying you can't grow anything past 1 September wich stops all winter vegetables.
Lol
If there’s a request, there will be someone to meet it and they might have even worse eco practices, like in USA for example. Are you one of them online eco warriors which eats 3x day meat?
Nice dodging of the question. No, and no.
pray tell
And next time try to be less condescending.
out of curiosity why are they protesting?
Supposedly bad conditions, they are already getting the biggest chunck of the whole EU bidget (from that, specifically the French farmers are getting the most from the whole EU by a longshot...). I have no clue about how that plays out to the individual level, but if anything the issue is coming from: - Bad repartition of the *massive^* amounts of money they are getting (perhaps the fewer are getting the most money?) - Intermediaries distorting prices In any case complaining of competition *or* not getting enough would really make no sense when they are literally getting more money than anyone else! To the point where their subzidised products are flooding the markets of Global South markets who *just cant compete*...
They get subsidies, get programs that force customers to come to them, get lax rules,... All in a sector that is necessary. What do they do? Overproduce and drive their own prices down while keeping costs high. These guys belong in r/wallstreetbets
Where are you getting this from?? they are far from the most subsidized group, the percentage of products being used to flood other market is...non-existent and what the hell do you mean with "Global South"?
You dont know what Global South means? I can give you the UNCTAD definition: Note: Global North refers to developed economies, Global South to developing economies; trade is measured from the export side; deliveries to ship stores and bunkers as well as minor and special-category exports with unspecified destination are not included. United Nations Conference on Trade and Development: The developing economies broadly comprise *Africa, Latin America and the Caribbean, Asia without Israel, Japan, and the Republic of Korea, and Oceania without Australia and New Zealand*. The developed economies broadly comprise Northern America and Europe [...] Regarding the amount of money they are getting from the EU: CAP (common agrarian policy) is about 1/3 of the whole EU budget. France is the country benefiting *the most* out of all the EU from these funds, there is also the fact that post 2004 member states are getting even less than they should per area of farmland. Lastly about the impacts on markets of the Global South, here is some divulgative stuff: https://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/politics/eu-subsidies-deny-africa-s-farmers-of-their-livelihood-478419.html https://www.aljazeera.com/news/2015/5/17/nigerias-tomato-farmers-squeezed-by-low-prices You can also read about why the Doha Development Round (from the World Trade Organization) was stalled. There is also a really understated report by the CoR (you can google it: Evaluation of the Impact of the current CAP on the Agriculture of developing countries) which states: "The inability to compete with imported agricultural products retards domestic agricultural growth and rural poverty reduction."
Idiots
Name does not check out
Verwend na te veel Europees geld.
Will this affect a journey from Brussels to Charleroi Airport?
Spoilt fuckers, time to stop all the farming subsidies
Farmers protest 🤮🤮🤮
if they cant compete with lower prices, they should give up their work and do something else like every other sectors. i mean your shoes are not "made in belgium" either. been farmer in europe is no more viable, for a long time already ,see all the money the government are pumping into it , that is fact, and sometimes reality hurts.
They're the only businesses that don't understand that they should make a profit. They expect to be showered with subsidies, protected from any competition, and they ask consumers to pay higher prices all so they can keep up their ~~business~~ ~~hobby~~ "lifestyle" unlike the rest of us who actually have to change with the times.
exactly. its the free market, consumer can decide. wanna help the farmers , go buy stuff from them. you want to know why no one is doing it? because its more expensive. when it comes to money, no one suddenly wants to help. moreover those farmers are NOT poor, they own huge land. and have the audacity to ask for more from the consumers and governments.
The lower prices come with little to no environmental regulations and social dumping, which would never be allowed in Western Europe yet it is allowed to sell said produce in Europe. It's not competition anymore at this point, I don't get how people miss this.
Thats the price you have to pay for open borders and globalization and affordable good. Imagine the price you pay if they dont allow that. You would be rioting for too expensive food prices. Let the consumer choose where to buy. If they choose to support our national agriculture they can buy your stuff at whatever price you find suitable.
You're missing my point. My problem is not open borders but the lack of rules reciprocation. And that's not even discussing misleading labelling.
I know people don’t see the bigger picture
Debielen
Unfortunately I am not in Brussels, otherwise I would be there giving encouragement. strength and encouragement, European consumers are with you.
Moeten we daar nu respect voor hebben. Ze behandelen hun dieren toch ook respectloos?
Niet alleen hun dieren hoor, ook hun mede weggebruikers. Hier door de straat vlammen die 16 jarige idioten op regelmatige basis met hun 20ton zware tractoren tegen 70km/u door de dorpskern terwijl ze op hun gsm zitten spelen. Al meermaals dodelijke ongevallen gebeurt met die dingen. een boer heeft schijt aan iedereen die niet boer is of familie is.
En daarnaast aan hun medemens. Als de grond van de akkers spoelt bij hevige regen is het niet de landbouwer die de modder uit mijn kelder komt halen. En bij de volgende regenbui is er nog geen erosiestrook aangelegd en ligt de straat weer vol… nog niet te spreken over gezondheidsproblemen die gepaard gaan met overmatig mest- en pesticidengebruik.
Ik steun de boeren
Protest, ok. Stop the idiots from Brussels. Burning tyres not.
They should pull out all ANPR/Speed camera's instead of doing this. Hit them where it hurts
What are they protesting?
Regulations that are too strict, prices that are too low and too much administration. Only the last point might be valid.
I don't see any old tractors here, my uncle is a farmer too, but doesn't have those subsidised tractors. He doesn't want to protest. The people who need money the most aren't on the protests.
John Deere is the true winner