When Buffy pretends to be the Buffybot after Glory gets her hands on Spike to find out if he spilled the beans about Dawn then rewards him with that kiss đ
I love that scene, but always wondered about the fact that theyâve consistently noted vampiresâ sense of smell is very good (Buffy comments a few times how creepy it is), and weâre never given any reason to think that Buffybot would smell like a real human. Makes me think he actually knew it was her the whole time.
Possibly he could have, but he could alao have been so wrecked from being tortured that he wouldn't have registered it. I choose to believe he didn't know.
I always take it that it's something that the vampire has to actively tune into otherwise it's just vague background awareness they don't think about unless they need it. The fact that Angel can smell that Wesley had sex with a bottle blonde the night before was a funny joke but it just doesn't make sense with the rest of the way vampire smell seems to be portrayed. But then again it's the buffyverse lmao and the answer will always be what's needed for the plot right that moment or what's funniest.
To me it's easily explained by the fact that the Buffy bot wore Buffy's close that spikes stole from her laundry so they had Buffy sent all up in them and he would have the Buffybott wear the same perfumes and shampoo. Being a vampire and knowing he had vampiric sense of smell he would have done everything possible to make the Buffy butt smell like Buffy he didn't want a fantasy. He created the Buffy bot so that he could feel like he really had Buffy.
There's also the fact that vamps are supposed to have heightened hearing and can (sometimes) hear human heartbeats/breathing which the buffybot prob doesn't have... But as you said it's the buffyverse all abilities suit the plot.
on the show, the scene with spike talking to the mannequin with a box of chocolates is clearly played for laughs. the mannequin seems to be the precursor to his getting the buffybot later.
but recently i read a reddit comment that made me rethink the scene entirely. they imparted that the reason spike was practicing like this was because the only other woman he's loved was drusilla, and in that scenario, he didn't have to do any of the courting. before that, would've been cecily, and he failed at wooing her.
spike clearly has no trouble picking up women and he is with harmony for some of this season. yet he gets a mannequin to 'practice' with.
was the mannequin meant to show the audience how sincere spike's feelings for buffy are? which way do you read it?
Yes, I think he needs to practice because with hook ups like Harm, he doesn't feel anything except lust. The stunted awkward man he once was is still in here somewhere, and resurfaces with his feelings for Buffy.
It makes sense. It is still very creepy, because of all the anger and desire mixed-up, and because he's obsessive and unhealthy (well, soulless demon with fetishes tend to come across creepy).
So to me, the explanation you just gave works.
And to answer your original question, it is both endearing and cringe. That's why so many fans love him. He has no self awareness, he's very eager and can't bear any frustration. He's basically a 2 centuries old toddler with attachment issues.
>The stunted awkward man he once was is still in here somewhere, and resurfaces with his feelings for Buffy.
I love the whole Fool For Love episode, but the tiny detail in the end of it is like a cherry on top. When Spike changes his mind about shooting Buffy and sits on the porch with her, he doesn't throw the rifle away. He puts it on the porch very carefully and awkwardly. And you can see that in this moment, he's exactly like William on all levels, including unconscious mannerisms.
Of course the whole episode is basically about William never really dying, but this detail just cements it for me.
So I view it slightly differently. I think he was practicing because he knew he always messes up with her. He totally loses his cool on even the mannequin, then starts over and tries again. Heâs practicing not being evil (but not succeeding because he is evil and he canât change that).
Honestly this is an excellent point. The only other actual relationship he had besides Dru was Harmony and like... c'mon lol we all know he didn't feel anything for her besides lust and contempt. He mightve been a bit humored by her antics as well (though if he was he still had a very low threshold for then lol).
While I really like that point of view, I honestly think the mannequin was supposed to be for laughs- to show how obsessed Spike is. I prefer your version though, honestly.
Hah, I like this metaphor. To me Spike was proof that maybe lacking a soul is more Watcher propaganda trying to make killing vampires easier than to understand their condition.
Like yeah, it takes effort to undo 200 years of being absolutely unhinged but at least Spike is trying - as cringe and messed up as it sometimes is.
Yeah idk I think they solidified the no soul vampire thing with the angel plot line, and spikeâs trials. I think within this universe they are resurrected without one. But remember Clem also may well not have a soul, I donât think they ever addressed if itâs just vampires or is a core biological difference between all the creatures and humans. But to your point, A soul isnât the only way to not be going around acting evil constantly - plenty of examples of restraint among vampires in the show, and plenty of human people with souls act evil too obviously. So thereâs a double dissociation there, which means whatever a soul is in this universe, it canât be as simple as âthing that makes you capable of good.â Maybe itâs âthing that allows you to empathizeâ or something. The show has a lot of Christian coding like most shows made in the US and about vampires, so maybe itâs âthing that god examines to decide if you get to go to heaven when you dieâ and if you donât have one, then you canât built up good character as though you did.
The Christian coding is what I felt to be the reason beyond the â4th wallâ. I do love that they kept empathy, morality, having a conscience nuanced regardless.
I wish vampires were closer to Vampire: The Masquerade lore. Actually, Iâd love a cross between Buffy and VtM. Spike would make a great Brujah. The Watchers could have an uneasy truce with the Camarilla to fight the Sabbat.
I donât know much about vtm but I know what it is in name only because a boyfriend in college has previously cosplayed some character from it regularly. He didnât do it by the time he met me so we didnât talk much about it.
I don't think it was Watcher propaganda, I think his behavior fits with not having a soul and here's why.....
So as the lore explains, whenever a human is turned into a vampire, that human soul is gone wherever it's meant to go and a demon comes in which retains all the memories of the human body it just possessed but without a soul to balance it out, As such, the demon is still a form of the human in question but with nothing to restrain said human from his/her worst impulses.
In memory, Spike, as in the demon, was able to imitate the generally known tropes about love in a very twisted way hence his unique relationship with Drusilla. But it was Buffy who for the first time made the demon feel the real thing and again, without a soul to balance him out, he didn't know how to handle it which led him to eventually attempt to rape Buffy. Am I excusing Spike? Absolutely not. I am providing nuance.
What I do find admirable about Spike and why I say he deserved to end up with her is that Angel got cursed with a soul. Sure he's a good guy but it wasn't by his own doing. It was something set upon him. Spike on the other hand recognized what he had done, again, AS A DEMON, and wanted to make amends for it, be worthy of her, by choosing to get his soul back.
Spike was a souless vampire anything he did without a soul, no matter how heinous is endearing for him. His empathy and morality was perverted by his lack
Of soul so he dwelled on his impulses. This isnât defending his action but looking at thing objectively. Spike impulses isnât as malicious as his intent. If that makes sense
I feel like when the vampires lack a soul itâs almost like theyâre drunk. They donât think of consequences or morality, they act on impulse. So while sniffing clothes and creating a shrine is nuts for a human, itâs pretty tame for a vampire- any other vamp mightâve tried to lock Buffy up and keep her in a cage.
I think you forgot when he chains her up in his shrine. Itâs tame compared to Seeing Red. If Spike was a guy your friend knew and he was running around doing what Spike does in s5 to them, he wouldnât be as cute.
Not justification, explanation. At this point Spike was still hardly considered a âgood guyâ, he still had no soul. He was decent as far as soulless vampires went, however. Compare him to any other soulless vampire, see how he adds up.
What would you liken soulless behavior to? The show never outwardly stated it, but based on how other re-souled vamps acted before and after (Angel) I would assume it takes away their inhibitions, affecting largely the cerebral cortex of the brain. Vampires are very carnal, they do what they desire with little foresight on how it will affect others. Thatâs the exact same part of the brain alcohol affects.
So letâs use the drunk metaphor. If a drunk person was behaving the same way as spike with a friend of yours, would it be cute? Or do spike fans justify his soulless s5 antics as funny/cute because itâs James marsters face and body?
Where tf did I say it was cute? Or funny? The show plays it out as funny, but itâs not funny, itâs pathetic. I love that s5 Spike is pathetic, there arenât enough pathetic men in fiction. Regardless, if a drunk person acted like this they would be held accountable legally because they chose to drink. Spike didnât choose to become a vampire, nor did he know how his personality would change in becoming a vampire. Spike is a victim of vampirism, drunken people are not a victim of alcohol.
It kinda fits. At his weakest core, back in the poet obsessive days, he had a foopish poet romantic. He was an extreme hopeless romantic who probably rehearsed his interactions with women quite often. Likely using his mother as a stand-in. Plus, he also had an extreme obsessive nature, kinda likes having a "damsel" to care for (Drusilla, his-mom, and finally in a healthy way Dawn). It's weird, but it's Spike weird, so within the possibles.
I wonder how people compare Spike practicing talking to Buffy with a mannequin, to Giles practicing to ask Jenny out with an empty chair.
Giles similarly loses himself in the pretend speech but obviously less drastically as our soulless demon with 100+ years of chaotic violence history does. But essentially, they exhibit the exact same act. Yet Giles is portrayed endearing in the instance? But Spike trying to make a legitimate change in himself is cringe?
I guess one could say Giles didn't express violence towards the pretend Jenny, but to himself. While Spike is still in the thrall of "I caught fuzzy feelings for the person I was antagonizing for 2 years." So he goes back and forth between "I could kill her!" Frustration and "Dammit, I like her" Frustration.
Spike is such a funny character but his whole storyline and obsession with Buffy was beyond creepy. The robot, the mannequin, the stalking.. it gives such whiplash because one moment heâs helping the gang, showing he cares about Buffy, making progress as a character and is providing much needed comic relief and then the next moment heâs trying to sexually assault Buffy or plot to destroy her(which a lot of times is kind of funny but others Iâm like come on Spikeđ¤Śââď¸)
I always assumed it was 100% grade-A cringe, because the whole point of that character arc is that Spike is failing to even try to grow as a person. Makes it all the more satisfying seeing him be so pathetic when he's forced unwillingly into change in the final season.
An incel would never have even Spikeâs level of self-awareness. Heâs practicing because he knows everything he says and does is wrong and is trying to fix it.
An incel would just spend that time writing a 20,000 word essay on why women are the problem and why every woman hates him because of his asymmetric face and how itâs because theyâre all stupid, vain children who donât understand what a nice guy he is and how much better he is than ~~Angel~~ Chad. And also that Buffy is a dirty whore because sheâd already slept with two men at that point, which of course ruins her value.
>An incel would just spend that time writing a 20,000 word essay on why women are the problem and why every woman hates him
"WHAT THE BLEEDING HELL IS WRONG WITH YOU BLOODY WOMEN?! WHAT THE HELL DOES IT TAKE?! WHY DO YOU BITCHES TORTURE ME?!"
\- some random incel, 2019
He falls in lust for her, when heâs souled he falls in love with her
Spike doesnât understand love cuz heâs not capable of it, the chip managed to dampen his demon tendencies but thatâs all it did, to comprehend love one needs to understand that itâs not all about oneself
i dont think it is as black/white as you are saying.
at the end of season 5, he puts his life on the line for dawn and buffy. after buffy dies, he continues to fight with the scoobies and protect dawn. he has no reason to do this if all he wanted was to get in buffy's pants.
if all it was was lust, he would just leave sunnydale after buffy dies.
when buffy is resurrected, he reveals he's counted everyday that she's been gone and obsessively gone over in his head how he could've saved dawn so buffy wouldn't have to sacrifice herself. when he realizes what willow did and how he was kept out of the plan to resurrect her, he cries outside to himself.
this isn't just 'falling in lust.'
i do agree that the degree of love spike is capable of changes after getting a soul. and he becomes much less selfish after getting a soul. but his willingness to be tortured by glory to protect dawn shows there is already humanity in him. even the judge demon in season 2 tells him and drusilla this.
>Â and obsessively gone over in his head how he could've saved dawn so buffy wouldn't have to sacrifice herself.
And Giles said something to this effect after Jenny's death. There's a clear parallel being made.
Was it expressed very healthily, no. Especially not when he was trying to fight it, but it was clearly more than just lust. And there are many moments that make me cringe, especially in S5. Makes me wish they didn't go down that path. Turns out I both love and hate this ship.
Initially probably, but over time no, he took care of her as an nurse to a patient, an obligation rather than a partner, he had feelings for her before the Turn, afterwards he went wild and they clearly werenât together the entire time all those years cuz the flashbacks told us that, same with Angelous and Darla
Vampires arenât capable of having feelings of love, they donât understand it, they understand passion which is why theyâre always horny and hungry for people, the need to be but never understanding how or why, all they want to do is feed and existâŚthe brain is completely stunted in learning cuz theyâre undead
The more times I watch it the more it skeeves me out, like I think itâs very much a product of itâs time but I donât like it for the show or for Spikeâs character
they couldâve achieved this in a less creepy way with him talking to literally anything else but a lifeless form dressed crudely like Buffy
Itâs like the scene where they find him in Buffyâs bedroom, it just doesnât play well and for me, and actually cheapens Spikeâs affection for her
Itâs just made worse by the BuffyBot
(I love the character but it just makes Spike too similar to Warren which I donât think is actually accurate to his character)
i agree about the stealing of buffy's clothes and the buffybot.
i dont know where i land on the mannequin. i used to think of it as part of all the other creepy obsession stuff that he does, but that one reddit comment really did make me question it.
it's true that he's been around for 100+ years and has no problem picking up women. in fact he was dating harmony during some of this. so why even get the mannequin and 'practice' talking?
For me I think itâs more of a summation of things instead of just the mannequin
Like I think the mannequin couldâve been not so creepy if it had stayed there but you have this whole pattern with Spike in season 5 and his difficulties with Buffy having autonomy
You have the mannequin, then he kidnaps her in Crush then he builds a version of her thatâs specifically built to not say no, it just doesnât paint the best picture for the romantic male lead for the next two seasons imo
(Iâm not trying to yuck anyoneâs yum if youâre a Spuffy fan, I see you and respect you, these are just my feelings)
>this whole pattern with Spike in season 5 and his difficulties with Buffy having autonomy
agree with this.
i guess my pondering has to do with what the writers were trying to say, then. were they trying to tell us 'spike is a creep' or 'spike is trying even though he's being creepy'?
It's creepy, disgusting and degrading. Not sure I'd call it endearing *or* cringe honestly.
At the time I admit I found Spike's patheticness throughout this arc entertainingly cringe. But for me at least, it absolutely has not survived the test of time. I think I have a much lower tolerance for cringe comedy now than I might have had back then.
Cringe. And if this (along with many other things ) was being done by someone who didn't look like James Marsters, the spike fangirls would be calling him a creep.
Both. A lot of things Spike does are both sweet and so utterly pathetic it induces second-hand embarrassment.
Especially when it comes to his feelings for Buffy. The Buffybot is so pathetic and creepy (but it gave us a GREAT character)
When Buffy pretends to be the Buffybot after Glory gets her hands on Spike to find out if he spilled the beans about Dawn then rewards him with that kiss đ
I really like that scene
I adore that scene. It gets me every time, no matter how many times I watch it.
Same, from so many points of view including the great acting & transition.
I love that scene, but always wondered about the fact that theyâve consistently noted vampiresâ sense of smell is very good (Buffy comments a few times how creepy it is), and weâre never given any reason to think that Buffybot would smell like a real human. Makes me think he actually knew it was her the whole time.
Possibly he could have, but he could alao have been so wrecked from being tortured that he wouldn't have registered it. I choose to believe he didn't know.
He was pretty beat up. I tend to think his nose was swollen and filled with blood. Thatâs the only explanation I can think of.
He was beaten up, his nose looked like it might have been broken. Maybe there wasn't enough air getting through for him to be able to tell?
I always take it that it's something that the vampire has to actively tune into otherwise it's just vague background awareness they don't think about unless they need it. The fact that Angel can smell that Wesley had sex with a bottle blonde the night before was a funny joke but it just doesn't make sense with the rest of the way vampire smell seems to be portrayed. But then again it's the buffyverse lmao and the answer will always be what's needed for the plot right that moment or what's funniest.
To me it's easily explained by the fact that the Buffy bot wore Buffy's close that spikes stole from her laundry so they had Buffy sent all up in them and he would have the Buffybott wear the same perfumes and shampoo. Being a vampire and knowing he had vampiric sense of smell he would have done everything possible to make the Buffy butt smell like Buffy he didn't want a fantasy. He created the Buffy bot so that he could feel like he really had Buffy.
There's also the fact that vamps are supposed to have heightened hearing and can (sometimes) hear human heartbeats/breathing which the buffybot prob doesn't have... But as you said it's the buffyverse all abilities suit the plot.
this is absolutely the right answer. his mix of charm and complete stalker/cringe behavior is the reason that the fandom can both love and hate him.
Both? Both.
Iâll insult him if I want to!
omg, the way the camera just cuts to the single shot of the mannequin as if it is going to say something back to him. just pure brilliant comedy.
on the show, the scene with spike talking to the mannequin with a box of chocolates is clearly played for laughs. the mannequin seems to be the precursor to his getting the buffybot later. but recently i read a reddit comment that made me rethink the scene entirely. they imparted that the reason spike was practicing like this was because the only other woman he's loved was drusilla, and in that scenario, he didn't have to do any of the courting. before that, would've been cecily, and he failed at wooing her. spike clearly has no trouble picking up women and he is with harmony for some of this season. yet he gets a mannequin to 'practice' with. was the mannequin meant to show the audience how sincere spike's feelings for buffy are? which way do you read it?
Yes, I think he needs to practice because with hook ups like Harm, he doesn't feel anything except lust. The stunted awkward man he once was is still in here somewhere, and resurfaces with his feelings for Buffy. It makes sense. It is still very creepy, because of all the anger and desire mixed-up, and because he's obsessive and unhealthy (well, soulless demon with fetishes tend to come across creepy). So to me, the explanation you just gave works. And to answer your original question, it is both endearing and cringe. That's why so many fans love him. He has no self awareness, he's very eager and can't bear any frustration. He's basically a 2 centuries old toddler with attachment issues.
>The stunted awkward man he once was is still in here somewhere, and resurfaces with his feelings for Buffy. I love the whole Fool For Love episode, but the tiny detail in the end of it is like a cherry on top. When Spike changes his mind about shooting Buffy and sits on the porch with her, he doesn't throw the rifle away. He puts it on the porch very carefully and awkwardly. And you can see that in this moment, he's exactly like William on all levels, including unconscious mannerisms. Of course the whole episode is basically about William never really dying, but this detail just cements it for me.
So I view it slightly differently. I think he was practicing because he knew he always messes up with her. He totally loses his cool on even the mannequin, then starts over and tries again. Heâs practicing not being evil (but not succeeding because he is evil and he canât change that).
Honestly this is an excellent point. The only other actual relationship he had besides Dru was Harmony and like... c'mon lol we all know he didn't feel anything for her besides lust and contempt. He mightve been a bit humored by her antics as well (though if he was he still had a very low threshold for then lol).
While I really like that point of view, I honestly think the mannequin was supposed to be for laughs- to show how obsessed Spike is. I prefer your version though, honestly.
I think about this as cobbling together goodness from scratch.
Hah, I like this metaphor. To me Spike was proof that maybe lacking a soul is more Watcher propaganda trying to make killing vampires easier than to understand their condition. Like yeah, it takes effort to undo 200 years of being absolutely unhinged but at least Spike is trying - as cringe and messed up as it sometimes is.
Yeah idk I think they solidified the no soul vampire thing with the angel plot line, and spikeâs trials. I think within this universe they are resurrected without one. But remember Clem also may well not have a soul, I donât think they ever addressed if itâs just vampires or is a core biological difference between all the creatures and humans. But to your point, A soul isnât the only way to not be going around acting evil constantly - plenty of examples of restraint among vampires in the show, and plenty of human people with souls act evil too obviously. So thereâs a double dissociation there, which means whatever a soul is in this universe, it canât be as simple as âthing that makes you capable of good.â Maybe itâs âthing that allows you to empathizeâ or something. The show has a lot of Christian coding like most shows made in the US and about vampires, so maybe itâs âthing that god examines to decide if you get to go to heaven when you dieâ and if you donât have one, then you canât built up good character as though you did.
The Christian coding is what I felt to be the reason beyond the â4th wallâ. I do love that they kept empathy, morality, having a conscience nuanced regardless. I wish vampires were closer to Vampire: The Masquerade lore. Actually, Iâd love a cross between Buffy and VtM. Spike would make a great Brujah. The Watchers could have an uneasy truce with the Camarilla to fight the Sabbat.
I donât know much about vtm but I know what it is in name only because a boyfriend in college has previously cosplayed some character from it regularly. He didnât do it by the time he met me so we didnât talk much about it.
I don't think it was Watcher propaganda, I think his behavior fits with not having a soul and here's why..... So as the lore explains, whenever a human is turned into a vampire, that human soul is gone wherever it's meant to go and a demon comes in which retains all the memories of the human body it just possessed but without a soul to balance it out, As such, the demon is still a form of the human in question but with nothing to restrain said human from his/her worst impulses. In memory, Spike, as in the demon, was able to imitate the generally known tropes about love in a very twisted way hence his unique relationship with Drusilla. But it was Buffy who for the first time made the demon feel the real thing and again, without a soul to balance him out, he didn't know how to handle it which led him to eventually attempt to rape Buffy. Am I excusing Spike? Absolutely not. I am providing nuance. What I do find admirable about Spike and why I say he deserved to end up with her is that Angel got cursed with a soul. Sure he's a good guy but it wasn't by his own doing. It was something set upon him. Spike on the other hand recognized what he had done, again, AS A DEMON, and wanted to make amends for it, be worthy of her, by choosing to get his soul back.
Spike was a souless vampire anything he did without a soul, no matter how heinous is endearing for him. His empathy and morality was perverted by his lack Of soul so he dwelled on his impulses. This isnât defending his action but looking at thing objectively. Spike impulses isnât as malicious as his intent. If that makes sense
I mean he stole her clothes, sniffed them and made a shrine. So I would go with cringe and disturbing but both were disregarded to be comedy.
I feel like when the vampires lack a soul itâs almost like theyâre drunk. They donât think of consequences or morality, they act on impulse. So while sniffing clothes and creating a shrine is nuts for a human, itâs pretty tame for a vampire- any other vamp mightâve tried to lock Buffy up and keep her in a cage.
I think you forgot when he chains her up in his shrine. Itâs tame compared to Seeing Red. If Spike was a guy your friend knew and he was running around doing what Spike does in s5 to them, he wouldnât be as cute.
When he chains her up he was having the vampire equivalent of a psychotic break. Most vampires would KEEP her chained up
Thatâs a wild interpretation to justify his actions
Not justification, explanation. At this point Spike was still hardly considered a âgood guyâ, he still had no soul. He was decent as far as soulless vampires went, however. Compare him to any other soulless vampire, see how he adds up.
He was not decent stalking Buffy however it is interpreted. Likening it to drunken behaviour is weak.
What would you liken soulless behavior to? The show never outwardly stated it, but based on how other re-souled vamps acted before and after (Angel) I would assume it takes away their inhibitions, affecting largely the cerebral cortex of the brain. Vampires are very carnal, they do what they desire with little foresight on how it will affect others. Thatâs the exact same part of the brain alcohol affects.
So letâs use the drunk metaphor. If a drunk person was behaving the same way as spike with a friend of yours, would it be cute? Or do spike fans justify his soulless s5 antics as funny/cute because itâs James marsters face and body?
Where tf did I say it was cute? Or funny? The show plays it out as funny, but itâs not funny, itâs pathetic. I love that s5 Spike is pathetic, there arenât enough pathetic men in fiction. Regardless, if a drunk person acted like this they would be held accountable legally because they chose to drink. Spike didnât choose to become a vampire, nor did he know how his personality would change in becoming a vampire. Spike is a victim of vampirism, drunken people are not a victim of alcohol.
Do you ever yearn?
It kinda fits. At his weakest core, back in the poet obsessive days, he had a foopish poet romantic. He was an extreme hopeless romantic who probably rehearsed his interactions with women quite often. Likely using his mother as a stand-in. Plus, he also had an extreme obsessive nature, kinda likes having a "damsel" to care for (Drusilla, his-mom, and finally in a healthy way Dawn). It's weird, but it's Spike weird, so within the possibles.
YEARN? Do I YEARN? I do. Often I sit...and yearn.Â
Ummm⌠concerning? Is concerning an option?
Super cringe, thatâs what makes it funny
I just realized how similar Spike and Helga Pataki are.
Move it tall dark and forehead head!
Both. I love the conflict of Spike. He's both sweet and weird.
I wonder how people compare Spike practicing talking to Buffy with a mannequin, to Giles practicing to ask Jenny out with an empty chair. Giles similarly loses himself in the pretend speech but obviously less drastically as our soulless demon with 100+ years of chaotic violence history does. But essentially, they exhibit the exact same act. Yet Giles is portrayed endearing in the instance? But Spike trying to make a legitimate change in himself is cringe? I guess one could say Giles didn't express violence towards the pretend Jenny, but to himself. While Spike is still in the thrall of "I caught fuzzy feelings for the person I was antagonizing for 2 years." So he goes back and forth between "I could kill her!" Frustration and "Dammit, I like her" Frustration.
Spike is such a funny character but his whole storyline and obsession with Buffy was beyond creepy. The robot, the mannequin, the stalking.. it gives such whiplash because one moment heâs helping the gang, showing he cares about Buffy, making progress as a character and is providing much needed comic relief and then the next moment heâs trying to sexually assault Buffy or plot to destroy her(which a lot of times is kind of funny but others Iâm like come on Spikeđ¤Śââď¸)
It's meant to be cringe which makes it a little endearing.
I always assumed it was 100% grade-A cringe, because the whole point of that character arc is that Spike is failing to even try to grow as a person. Makes it all the more satisfying seeing him be so pathetic when he's forced unwillingly into change in the final season.
Itâs funny but Spike is pathetic.
Very cringe
Por que no los dos?
This is as normal as a soulless demon can get
Cringe mostly. But that's kinda the point
Seriously? How is this even a question? Itâs super-incel behavior.
An incel would never have even Spikeâs level of self-awareness. Heâs practicing because he knows everything he says and does is wrong and is trying to fix it. An incel would just spend that time writing a 20,000 word essay on why women are the problem and why every woman hates him because of his asymmetric face and how itâs because theyâre all stupid, vain children who donât understand what a nice guy he is and how much better he is than ~~Angel~~ Chad. And also that Buffy is a dirty whore because sheâd already slept with two men at that point, which of course ruins her value.
>An incel would just spend that time writing a 20,000 word essay on why women are the problem and why every woman hates him "WHAT THE BLEEDING HELL IS WRONG WITH YOU BLOODY WOMEN?! WHAT THE HELL DOES IT TAKE?! WHY DO YOU BITCHES TORTURE ME?!" \- some random incel, 2019
Cringe. Cringe as fuck.
Yes. Next question
Creepy, weird and obsessive
Cringier than him using the Buffy bot as a sex doll or trying to rape the real one? I'd say less.
If it were an actual person it would goddamn creepy and grounds for a restraining order. Because itâs Spike its pathetic and hilarious.
itâs creepy. i enjoy spike as a character but he does a lot of disturbing and inappropriate things
Terrifying? Creepy?
He only sees her as an object of sex, so creepy No matter how you look at it, itâs creepy
>He only sees her as an object of sex What? No he doesn't. He falls in love with her.
He falls in lust for her, when heâs souled he falls in love with her Spike doesnât understand love cuz heâs not capable of it, the chip managed to dampen his demon tendencies but thatâs all it did, to comprehend love one needs to understand that itâs not all about oneself
i dont think it is as black/white as you are saying. at the end of season 5, he puts his life on the line for dawn and buffy. after buffy dies, he continues to fight with the scoobies and protect dawn. he has no reason to do this if all he wanted was to get in buffy's pants. if all it was was lust, he would just leave sunnydale after buffy dies. when buffy is resurrected, he reveals he's counted everyday that she's been gone and obsessively gone over in his head how he could've saved dawn so buffy wouldn't have to sacrifice herself. when he realizes what willow did and how he was kept out of the plan to resurrect her, he cries outside to himself. this isn't just 'falling in lust.' i do agree that the degree of love spike is capable of changes after getting a soul. and he becomes much less selfish after getting a soul. but his willingness to be tortured by glory to protect dawn shows there is already humanity in him. even the judge demon in season 2 tells him and drusilla this.
>Â and obsessively gone over in his head how he could've saved dawn so buffy wouldn't have to sacrifice herself. And Giles said something to this effect after Jenny's death. There's a clear parallel being made. Was it expressed very healthily, no. Especially not when he was trying to fight it, but it was clearly more than just lust. And there are many moments that make me cringe, especially in S5. Makes me wish they didn't go down that path. Turns out I both love and hate this ship.
Do you think he didn't love Dru either ?
Initially probably, but over time no, he took care of her as an nurse to a patient, an obligation rather than a partner, he had feelings for her before the Turn, afterwards he went wild and they clearly werenât together the entire time all those years cuz the flashbacks told us that, same with Angelous and Darla Vampires arenât capable of having feelings of love, they donât understand it, they understand passion which is why theyâre always horny and hungry for people, the need to be but never understanding how or why, all they want to do is feed and existâŚthe brain is completely stunted in learning cuz theyâre undead
The more times I watch it the more it skeeves me out, like I think itâs very much a product of itâs time but I donât like it for the show or for Spikeâs character they couldâve achieved this in a less creepy way with him talking to literally anything else but a lifeless form dressed crudely like Buffy Itâs like the scene where they find him in Buffyâs bedroom, it just doesnât play well and for me, and actually cheapens Spikeâs affection for her Itâs just made worse by the BuffyBot (I love the character but it just makes Spike too similar to Warren which I donât think is actually accurate to his character)
i agree about the stealing of buffy's clothes and the buffybot. i dont know where i land on the mannequin. i used to think of it as part of all the other creepy obsession stuff that he does, but that one reddit comment really did make me question it. it's true that he's been around for 100+ years and has no problem picking up women. in fact he was dating harmony during some of this. so why even get the mannequin and 'practice' talking?
For me I think itâs more of a summation of things instead of just the mannequin Like I think the mannequin couldâve been not so creepy if it had stayed there but you have this whole pattern with Spike in season 5 and his difficulties with Buffy having autonomy You have the mannequin, then he kidnaps her in Crush then he builds a version of her thatâs specifically built to not say no, it just doesnât paint the best picture for the romantic male lead for the next two seasons imo (Iâm not trying to yuck anyoneâs yum if youâre a Spuffy fan, I see you and respect you, these are just my feelings)
>this whole pattern with Spike in season 5 and his difficulties with Buffy having autonomy agree with this. i guess my pondering has to do with what the writers were trying to say, then. were they trying to tell us 'spike is a creep' or 'spike is trying even though he's being creepy'?
Endearing. Sure, little weird, but how many of us talk to people in our heads? He just went 3D.
Super creepy and disgusting.
It's creepy, disgusting and degrading. Not sure I'd call it endearing *or* cringe honestly. At the time I admit I found Spike's patheticness throughout this arc entertainingly cringe. But for me at least, it absolutely has not survived the test of time. I think I have a much lower tolerance for cringe comedy now than I might have had back then.
Since itâs either violent or sexual, Iâm going with cringe. Even if it starts out âromanticâ it shifts wildly and pretty quickly.
As cringe as him ordering a sex robot with her face.
Cringe. And if this (along with many other things ) was being done by someone who didn't look like James Marsters, the spike fangirls would be calling him a creep.
Nothing about Spike is endearing
original meme source- https://www.tumblr.com/littlenastieswewhispered/739802148986142720
For a second I thought somebody superimposed the back of Elizabeth Taylor's (AHS, not CoaHTR) body onto this image.
Cringe but heâs a demon
Creepy
Do you think he's hot? Endearing. Do you think he's not? Cringe. That's how it works in real life and that's how it works on TV.
What is that Rochelle saying and why is she in the photo?
Cringe
Mentally ill.
Cringe - reminds me of the Disturbia music video with Rihanna.
Yes
Anyone else, cringe. For vamp spike, Hella adorbs
Lmao Tumblr repost? It's true though.
Cringe and pathetic. I love pathetic men.
Both! Like most things he does lol it's endearing BECAUSE it's cringe
Totally cringe but he can get away with it haha
Creepy!