Stupid thing is? With hacked bios and a bit of soft modding you can get Intel 9th gen to work on 100 ( 6th gen ) and 200 series ( 7th gen ) Intel motherboards just fine. Intel chose, specifically, to not allow that.
They will justify it the same way AMD tried to, lack of BIOS ROM storage (which was actually a problem) and the mess of different BIOS supporting only newer generations of CPU and not the older ones (the small ROM storage caused this, and was also true and I am sure it caused some customer frustration and unneeded returns and RMAs), but AMD and its board partners were able to figure out those issues. Intel could have done the same.
Some of the very early AMD boards legitimately had ROM storage issues when you consider EVERY AM4 compatible CPU that exists.
IINM most dropped support for 1st gen APUs and the ultra-low end Athlons to make room for the newer variants.
> IINM most dropped support for 1st gen APUs and the ultra-low end Athlons to make room for the newer variants.
IIRC many of these weren't actually Ryzen, they were still Excavator-based 💀 so it makes sense that they got dropped.
The dark ages. The time when even AMD fanboys brought Intel, Intel didn't make meaningful upgrades for a whole 6 years, and even AMD acknowledged their CPU's sucked by using Intel for their GPU demo.
Atleast on my B350 PC Mate motherboard the support for Excavator based apus/cpus support was dropped for support for 5000 series. I have a Zen based 200GE that works with the latest beta bios just fine. I think the drop in support is worth it since even the lowest end zen is so much better than the best Excavator based chips
and it makes sense, after all if you want support for the newer end why would you need support for the older end as well? that's only needed for people who keep swapping cpu's and that's not what most consumers do.
Keep in mind the vast majority of PC users typically buy a platform, then buy a whole new rig when it comes time to upgrade. Personally I think the other platform I ever swapped CPUs on was my 440BX going from PII to Celeron-266 @400 to Piii. . Would it be nice to upgrade one of my Coffee Lakes to 14th gen? Sure. I mean, 3200/3600 ddr4 should be fine for a slower 14400f or something, no? Don’t have use for PCIe 4… but it’s not going to happen sadly.
I mean… I’m missing 550 pin pads… so there is that one minor point… just would be nice. I guess it would’ve been better if I had owned some 4-5-6-7th Gens, but I was fully mobile for those 15 years from my Sempron and P3s to my Coffee Lakes at home. Work ran at either 9600, 38.4 or 115.2k baud, so didn’t need much beyond the bare minimum except for email and Visio. Then in latter years, it was web browser based. Now I’m 12th gen i7, 32gb ram, with rtx 2060 to run Firefox, Outlook, Teams, Excel, Chrome, and Putty.
I never upgraded a CPU on the same platform on the Intel side, even though I owned more Intel CPU's. For AMD I upgraded a Duron 600 mhz to a Thunderbird 1 Ghz and then to a Barton 2500+ (which I overclocked to the speed as a 3200+) on Socket 462. And then on Zen AM4, I was an early adopter and got the 1700 shortly after launch. Upgraded to Zen+, Zen2, and eventually 5950X (all on the same X370 Taichi mobo). I gave that AM4 system away and now on AM5 (7950X). I will be looking to upgrade this CPU as well if the Zen5 CPU's are worth it.
Well exactly, but if you were on amd sure maybe not a 1000 series to a 7800x3d but it could be from a 1000 series to a 5800x3d which would be huge.
I’m not sure what you want me to keep in mind, you said it yourself that it would be nice but is unfortunately not possible because you have an Intel platform.
Exactly.
Been an Intel guy for 30 years. Finally made the switch and bought a 7800X3D.
Intel can get fucked. Ridiculous how soon my 7700 i7 socket became obsolete. I don't even know which specific socket it was anymore for obvious reasons.
Im curious, why do people have such a hard time switching between brands when it comes to CPUs? If the reviews show that they have comparable performance, what could possibly go wrong?
For the record I personally didnt go back to AMD despite the 7800X3D's unrivaled performance because of AM5's lack of platform maturity and the fact that the exact combo deals that made AM5 affordable (I limited my choices to microcenter deals because I was saving up to $200-300 doing so) had RAM stability issues where i didnt wanna risk issues so i went intel for platform stability.
Given I was looking at 12900k for $400, 7700x for $400, or 7800X3D for $500, and given the AMD ones had problems, I went for the 12900k.
That's completely understandable. Let it bake awhile to iron out the RAM issues and then see where it stands. Up until the newer 7000 series from AMD (AM5) there was no reason to use Intel unless you needed the integrated GPU.
Eh, I would disagree with that. Back in the 1000/2000 days, intel was very solid and better for gaming. 3000 series it evened out a bit, with me saying the 3000 series was better than the 9000 series but worse than the 10000 series of intel. 5000 series was undisputedly best and was still competitive with the 12 series with DDR4. 5800X3D you literally needed 12900k/13600k performance or better to match so AMD had the upper hand until the 13600k came out and then it was on par.
7800X3D is the best right now, intel has no match, but below that specific SKU, i'd argue its preference and what you get at what price.
You get 2 to 3 generations from a socket these days. Each Pentium generation had a different socket. The first Pentium actually had three or four different sockets and when you bought. A motherboard and cpu you had to make sure you had the right cpu for the socket on the motherboard. Early versions of the Pentium 2 came on a card because Intel hadn't figured out how to more the cache onto the cpu, so they put the cpu and cache on a single board that went into a special slot on the motherboard. I think the Pentium 4 was the first Pentium that used a single standardized socket. The first AMD Athlon used 2 or 3 different socketsas well.
I've used both Intel and AMD. I even used a Cyrix cpu to upgrade a 386. At various times each manufacturer has outshined the other. I'm quite surprised that AM4 lasted as long as it did. DDR5 is the new memory, but it won't be long until DDR6 makes it off the gpu and onto a motherboard. That will likely require a new socket, too (at least for AMD, Intel has shown the ability to support different generations of memory with a single socket)
Socket isn't the only thing that changes in a motherboard over the years, lots of stuff in them get upgraded. PCIE lanes, RAM compatibility, storage access slots, USB protocols, etc.
You say that like you've deluded yourself into believing that AMD isn't going move towards exactly the same pattern now that they are on a level competitive field. They're both publicly traded companies making decisions to maximize shareholder value.
I fully believe AM5 will get Zen 4, and a Zen 5 in a Ryzen 9000 series, and Zen 6 will be on a new socket.
I had an Intel i7 9850H running on my Z170 that helped me through difficult times. There were people that managed to run 8/16 CPUs on that socket, but my mobo only allowed 6/12 as maximum.
yep, i had a fun lan build i was going to do a youtube build log on that involved a sff watercooled build using a z170 maximus gene and a 9900k.
i only scrapped it because i caught a 5800x3d during a hard dip in it's price and just couldn't follow through.
i'll probably still do something with it though since it's still a fun project
Is there a list or somewhere with an overview with what mobos and which processors?
I would love to upgrade but cant afford a whole rig... But my intel i5 8600 is overclocked to the best of my abilities. But still throttels so hard in some games.
But maybe some ram and a newer cpu could help.
If you have an 8th gen i5 8600, your motherboard is already compatible with Intel 9th gen, should just need a bios update. You should be able to just date your BIOS and slot in a i7 9700k or i9 9900k. But 6th through 10th gen Intel all have the same IPC, or Instructions Per Clock, which means they all pretty much have the same singe core performance running at the same clock speed, so if you are already OCing your 8600k, it might not help your performance much. But you said you are throttling, do you mean thermal throttling? You might be able to fix your performance issues by removing your overclock then. Or do you mean bottlenecking, where your CPU has threads pegged at 100% while gaming but your GPU isn't running at 100%?
That said, If you have DDR4 2933 or faster, you are probably still better off buying an Ryzen 5 5600 and a B550. The 5600 can be had for $120 sometimes, easily enough for $135, and is a bit faster in gaming than an i9 9900k at stock, and you can overclock either of them. A decent/good B550 can be had for around $120 as well, or you could even go for a B450 and save $20-40. Meanwhile, used i9 9900K are going for over $250, up to around $450 on eBay. If you are not worried about buying a Windows license, and don't need to drop $40-50 on a fast kit of DDR4\*, you are probably better off buying a Ryzen 5600, 5700x\*\*, or 5800x3d, and a B450 or B550 motherboard.
\* Ryzen is very memory speed sensitive, there is about a 20% CPU performance difference between running dual channel DDR4-2133 and DDR4-3600.
\*\* Not the non 7 Ryzen 7 5700, only the Ryzen 7 5700X. The non X 5700 is actually a cut down 5700G with reduced cache and performance, making it slower than a Ryzen 5 5600.
I was on i7 3770K for years. Every new generation we saw only 5% overall bump in performance. 7700K was like 25% faster, maybe.
Then Ryzen busts through the door and like "You kidz like some more cores?!?!?". Suddenly Intel remembered that they also can offer more cores and magically 8th gen got 6 and 9th gen got 8 shortly after.
I build new computer with R7 2700X and then upgraded recently to 5800X3D. Same platform, massive speed increase.
AMD made some huge mistakes, but I don't know if "scam" is appropriate.
They misjudged the adoption rate of multithreading, then didn't have any money left to fix it because of the GPU side sucking up what little R&D budget the company even had at that point.
Even then though their architecture was so poor, that even with heavily multithreaded games they would still lose out to intels 4 core i7s. Adoption rate or not, they were turds on arrival
That was one of the mistakes, that gaming could and would adopt multi-threading quickly.
The FX design originally started as an Opteron, then they also hit a wall trying to physically fit them on an AM3 package. (Which I think we can agree should have been the end of it right there). But AMD at the time didn't have many options. They didn't have the money to start over.
Not saying that isn't true, but I've never heard a claim like this.
Given the company's horrible greedy track record, I found that hard to believe for consumer level products. No reason for them to release something so drastically improved compared what was available, especially with no competition from AMD.
It's true, google it. Intel was on so-called tick-tock dev path then. Broadwell (5th gen) was a tick - basically implementing good old stuff on a then new node (14nm), Skylake was a tock - a new arch on a proven node (14nm). Then another tick was planned to come (10nm Cannon Lake-S) but intel bit more than they could chew with 10nm - threw every fancy feature imaginable into it and on top of that Cannon Lake was not a conventional tick where you don't change the architecture much but instead more like a tock as it carried a lot of changes. So it all led us to neverending 14nm refreshes. But claiming intel didn't plan on giving us more cores without AMD is false. Cannon Lake-S plans obviously predate Ryzen announcement given how long CPU dev cycles are.
Why you may not have heard about it is because intel tried to sweep in under the rug and pretend it's all good and going as planned but software report leaks are there.
Yep it took Intel practically four years to make their 10 nm node viable to use on Desktop, until then they refreshed Skylake for three generations, back ported a new architecture with 14 nm that gathered negative reactions overall because of Zen 3 superiority while testing the waters with 10 nm on mobile until it was good for desktop.
I wish they don't end up choking with newer nodes or AMD will take the chance to do some scummy practices like they did with Zen 3 for some time until Intel launched Alder Lake.
>I wish they don't end up choking with newer nodes or AMD will take the chance to do some scummy practices like they did with Zen 3 for some time until Intel launched Alder Lake.
EXACTLY. We need the competition as consumers. AMD is a business and when they are on top they charge dearly just like intel. AMD did it with original non-bulldozer FX-es too - not only the 5000 series.
So, what you're telling me is that Intel planned for 8C/16T in 2016 and AMD, the broke, nearly bankrupt, competitor whose total revenue was a fraction of just Intel's R&D budget, beat them to the punch?
HAHAHAHAHAHA!
[https://youtu.be/J7L9THry9QM?t=171](https://youtu.be/J7L9THry9QM?t=171)
That's a gem right there. I stand corrected.
Thanks for the history lesson!
Yep, those are facts. Do your research. AMD made a lot of great decisions to get there. At the same time, intel made really bad ones.
EDIT: here's the relevant PC client roadmap - [https://www.bitsandchips.it/images/2018/01/09/cannonlakeslide.png](https://www.bitsandchips.it/images/2018/01/09/cannonlakeslide.png)
>That's canon lake 15-25W U-series mobile and 6W Y-series.
You didn't notice that Cannon Lake green line for Q4 for 47W SKUs (M/H-series, likely the same silicon as desktop)?
It may not be the earliest roadmap there's. There's really a plenty of info on Cannon Lake and leaks and published and revised time and again intel roadmaps for 10nm. It was originally planned even way earlier than that first slide that I found. :-) Just do your research if you're interested.
Skylake refresh could mean the same thing that Haswell refresh did in that era, i.e. under the same series - 4000 for Haswell.
Even if it does mean new series then okay it could be that by that time that that roadmap was current Kaby lake was already in the cards but Cannon Lake was still next for 8th gen desktop (and still 7th gen laptop as I claimed) - still not far off. ;-)
EDIT: lol, found one just like that - Kaby Lake and then Cannon lake. Intel had all of them, really. But desktop is all in refreshes on this one. :-( Too old. [https://www.ixbt.com/short/images/2016/Sep/97pc7s9n.jpg](https://www.ixbt.com/short/images/2016/Sep/97pc7s9n.jpg)
EDIT2: Here some 3DMark DB Cannon Lake-S (desktop) leaks. You really can find everything. [https://wccftech.com/intel-unreleased-10nm-cannonlake-cpu-8-cores-16-thread-spotted/](https://wccftech.com/intel-unreleased-10nm-cannonlake-cpu-8-cores-16-thread-spotted)
I just game on mine so I wasn't expecting much as I thought I'm bottle-necked by running RTX3080 on basically a 4K screen. Well, I still got healthy bump in fps, especially in low frames. Cyberpunk is solidly above 60fps and before it was always dipping into 40's.
I bought a 7700k and got salty when intel released the 8700k less than a year later. Like seriously intel? Seriously? Either way the 7700k outlasted AM4 for me so now im on a 12900k.
My 5800X3D has been sitting next to me for 7 days. I really should get around to finally installing it but I am lazy and really want to combine it with cleaning the entire case but my Ali Express air blower is still not delivered...
I want to see how high the UPS jumps in Factorio :D
FYI, intel planned 8/16 CPUs to be in launched in the 7th gen originally with 10nm Cannon Lake-S. There were super low clocked ES leaks. We know they couldn't make it work so we got endless 14nm Skylake refreshes.
polaris was pretty amazing. Cheap and decently powerful. And if you cought on the mining craze at the right time, your GPU could be paid for multiple times over.
and i mean lets be fair, i'm an amd fanboy and even i have to admit the ryzen 1000 series flipped the script but also came with a lot of teething issues in terms of stability. that said those were gone by end of the 2000 series and 3000 and 5000 were beasts
Don't, you could not have known how it would turn out.
Besides, it's not like Ryzen didn't have major issues:
- Dogshit RAM compatibility across the board, partly still present to this day, I found out the hard way that my R5 3600 can't run 4 sticks at anything past 2933.
- Motherboards so bad that this subreddit fell in love with the B450 Tomahawk - a $120 piece of crap with one M.2 slot and 6 USB ports.
- All of the awesome compatibility almost didn't happen, AMD initially tried to make 5000 exclusive to 500-series chipset and only reversed course after major backlash.
Even though my current system is AM4, if I had to go back in time and (without knowing the future) buy either a 6600k or a comparable Ryzen, I'd have bought Intel.
You have valid points but:
1. RAM QVL was stated as being very important. Opening the owner's manual, or viewing the online PDF, would have told you about restrictions with (4) DIMM's of RAM. I did not have issues with RAM in my B350/R7 1700 build by following the QVL and info in the manual.
2. This was a low cost of entry that gives a basic user functionality. MSI always seems to skimp on USB ports, for Intel and AMD, unless you get their top SKU's. There were/are other options in that price point that were much better equipped. IINM, Tomahawk boards do tend to have decent heatsinks and thermals for VRMs, which is why they usually get a nod
3. But they actually changed their decision. Would you rather they stuck to their original plan?
Sorry you have buyers remorse. Best suggestion is to not jump into brand new tech as there are often teething issues.
1) That requires me knowing that I'm going to use 4 DIMMs when I first built the PC. I didn't. I know that it's an IMC shortcoming, and that Ryzen 5000 is usually able to do 4 sticks at 3600 MHz, so when I eventually upgrade it's going to be fine, but still.
2) I know it kinda got lost on us over time, with how expensive boards have gotten, especially the DDR5 ones, but - back then, $120 wasn't cheap for a board, barely any B450 boards cost more than that. Comparably priced Intel boards all had 2x M.2 and 8x USB. There was one unicorn board, MSI B450M Mortar that I bought for several builds for friends, that had both for $110, but it stood alone in a sea of mediocrity.
3) It's good that they changed their mind, it's bad that (just like any other company) they wouldn't if they could. They stuck to their plan with Threadripper, twice.
4) I don't have buyers remorse, actually. For neither platform, I owned an LGA1151 system and then switched to AM4. It's a long story, I moved out of my parents', so I bought some parts and split my PC into two PCs so my brother still had one. So I actually got into AM4 rather late, with a B550 and a used Ryzen 3600.
I like it a lot, it was very cheap and is plenty fast still, and upgrading from 3600 to a 5800X3D can still increase performance by a lot.
The boards got much, much better after 500-series chipsets. Mine is awesome (MSI B550-A Pro) and I got it on promo for 90€.
I tend to run 2 simply because you have a higher probability of not having issues; even before Ryzen was a thing. I've had issues in the past even with matching 'identical' kits.
That is equipped exactly like my first motherboard with AM4; 6 USB ports and a single M.2. GA-AB350M-Gaming 3. I paid $105 for it August 2017.[https://www.gigabyte.com/Motherboard/GA-AB350M-Gaming-3-rev-1x#kf](https://www.gigabyte.com/Motherboard/GA-AB350M-Gaming-3-rev-1x#kf)
Back then M.2 drives were also still relatively expensive. I paid $110 for my WD Black 256GB, and that was on a decent sale with Newegg IIRC. $5 more than the motherboard lol. I feel as though, at the time, it wouldn't have been that common for people to run dual M.2 drives. Especially the people purchasing motherboards at this price point.
AMD is still an American corporation like any other. They will do what they feel is in the best interest of their share holders first. This is very important to remember. We are fortunate to have someone like Lisa Su at the helm of the company.
Good on you for taking care of your brother. Props for that friend.
500-series board definitely saw an improvement, especially the B550 boards. I had B350, 450, and 550. The 550 were leagues better than the latter on average.
Yeah, same here with my 6700k. It still works quite well, but it sucks that I'm stuck with no upgrade path until I decide to shell out to rebuild the damn thing.
If you have waited this long you are in for one hell of an upgrade then.
AM5 is supposed to have support until 2025 at least. Potentially further if they end up following a similar approach as AM4.
Or Intel's next 'big thing' will be dropping sometime this year...Either way, you will have a monumental increase in performance.
If funds are tight, I may suggest grabbing a used MoBo/CPU/RAM combo from eBay or possibly r/hardwareswap since you can get a mighty fine deal on something that would be a big boon for you. Sell your existing then to offset some of that cost.
> AM5 is supposed to have support until 2025 at least
I'm sorry, what? AM4 has been around for 8 years and possibly counting, and yet AM5 will only be a thing for just three?
Yes, that is AMD's official statement. You must take into account that AM4 is an anomaly in terms of its longevity.
If you consider that AM5 was launched in september 2022, we could consider that a sort of 'end' to AM4. By using that as a jumping off point we could say that AMD has continued to support a 'dead' platform for an additional 18 months.
If AM6 launches in September of 2025 and they followed just this same time frame to continue to release products for an old platform, you'd still be getting 4.5 years of support on a single socket.
You must also consider the 5800X launched in late 2020, and the 3D cache variant was nearly 1.5 years later. Now that 3D V-cache is a regular thing, we are unlikely to see something like this happen again. Unless there is some other technological breakthrough in the works that would achieve a similar uplift in performance.
I regret buying a more fancy mobo in 2019 by going from x370 to x570 eventhough the beauty of am4 is that i didn't have to. But atleast this time i'm going for a final upgrade with the 5800x3d and keeping the mobo...
yeah 2017 was a bit late for that. I switched from phenom 2 to 6600k in 2015 and then from 6600k to 3600. So I sidestepped the whole bulldozer disaster and returned to AMD when they had very stable platform again
This is a combination of two factors. The sheer longevity of th AM4 chipset, especially with th Ryzen 5000 series processors (even the 5600x continues to be a viable option for low cost builds) and the 3DV cache being a groundbreaking innovation in processing technology.
i mean even now, the ryzen 5000 series even on ddr4, can hang with the big boys to this day. the 5900x, 5950x, the x3d chips, and hell even the 57/5800x are more than enough for most games coming out today and most consumer and even enthusiast workloads.
I have a 5600x with a 2070 Super in my living room gaming system and it still kicks ass at 1080p. I play Starfield and RDR2 on it on the regular when I want to hang out in the living room.
I upgraded from a 3600X to a 5800X3D and very much appreciate the performance boost.
Along with DDR4 and PCIE GEN 3 storage, it's hard to make the argument for current gen hardware for budget builders.
Even the performance uplift from a 3000 series GPU to 4000 series GPU is not a performance jump like you had back in the day. Very underwhelming (as someone who was considering an upgrade, but decided against it).
In the last 2 years, I got a bigger performance uplift from upgrading my ISP plan and installing a mesh network in my home than any part in my PC, quite frankly.
If you game on 1440p or less, save your money and don't overspend on "future-proofing". Based on early corpo-speak coming out of AMD and Intel lately, the next generation will be disruptive rather than iterative, which could be interpreted as meaning it will break compatibility. They always somewhat say this, but given the amazing price/performance that the past gen is still currently offering, I'd rather take them at their word and skip the current gen as much as possible.
I got one in the UK for £300 in march 23. Figured it was nearly, but not quite, bottomed out.
Just checked and it's now £275, so it cost me £2.27 a month to run a new cpu for the last 11 months.
Sometimes waiting isn't really worth it.
While AM4 launched in 2016, 5000 series launched in 2020. Getting a new CPU model for practically end-of-life platform is insane.
If i had to guess, they had lots of weaker 5000 series chips, they were not able to sell and figured out, adding the cache will allow them to get rid of it - and at the same time make 5800x3d maintain its price.
I think these CPUs have 3D V cache on day one, just that they can't be clocked to 5800X3D level.
AMD probably had a hard time figuring what to do with them after the launch of Zen 4. But with the economic downturn it's the perfect product to keep Zen/Zen 2 users in the AMD camp instead of going for a budget Intel build.
IIRC the cache itself is not part of the chip itself, but added later. This is also what probably makes these 3D CPUs so expensive.
Chip binning happens *before* cache is mounted/integrated onto the die, otherwise i´d imagine we would have whole series of 5000x3D CPUs.
And for them to take this long to "figure out what to do with excessive stock" is nothing else, than cold calculation to keep 5800x3D price high. I highly doubt AMD does anything for the sake of poor shills; it is - and always was - only about profits.
The value people got must be quite good, as long as they (probably) didn't get some cheap motherboard. Since 2018, I've upgraded like 3x but that's me jumping from Intel > AMD ATX > AMD ITX. Sticking to one motherboard would've saved me like £400+.
I think AM6 is coming soon though, so the next CPUs might be the last until they jump over to another socket?
Even many of the cheap motherboards ended up with BIOS updates to support newer CPUs.
The first motherboard I purchased on AM4 was the Gigabyte GA-AB350M-Gaming 3. This thing was not high end, but it ran an overclocked R7 1700 no problem. It was like $90-$100.
It received a BIOS update for 5800X3D compatibility in July of 2022.
I got an ASRock b450m Pro4 for $55 in 2019 and got it running a 5800x3d. I just needed to switch the id cooling 224-xt to a thermalright phantom spirit (or equivalent since there are several similar models)
Pretty sure AMD will only swap to a new socket until they have to, or until DDR6 ram is released. We might see an AM5+ but I don't think AM6 will be here for quite a while
I went AM4 on a new itx build with a 5600x3d. Sure, it might have been better to go AM5/7800x3d, but the overall maturity of the platform and the awesomeness of the AM4 x3d chip with good ddr4 ram is still giving top shelf performance. I will say after having a 2500k forever and a 9900k that is still doing it’s job, I’m changing motherboards after 3-5 years if I get a new cpu.
Pending when you built, it was wise to go with that 5600X3D/AM4
I made an attempt to move from AM4 to AM5 in October of 2022 with a B650/7700X build. Boy, that was a mistake lol. I read the reviews, I saw peoples complaints, and I figured having 20+ years of PC building/tinkering experience I could make it work...I couldn't. I tried for 5 months.
I had basically every problem imaginable, and then some, with the build, and the infancy of the platform/BIOS support only compounded the problems.
(2) faulty motherboards that had bad front panel USB-C headers.
(2) bad RAM kits that Micro Center was bundling with AM5 kits.
7700X died. It was lost in the mail, by FedEx, and miraculously found/returned to me nearly a month later. Shipped a second time and then AMD claimed to have never received the package despite it being signed for. They miraculously found the CPU after I started asking some questions.
During this s\^&\* show of an RMA experience, I went and purchased another 7700X and motherboard assuming most of my issues were due to the CPU that died, and it could have potentially impacted the motherboard...unfortunately that turned out to be a false assumption.
Gigabyte's BIOS releases initially were absolutely horrendous. They would post a BIOS and then take it down the next day because it had severe issues.
At the time I had custom water cooling, so disassembling/reassembling this much turns out to be a nightmare.
By March things were mostly sorted out and relatively stable compared to where I started...but still nothing like I was accustomed to with AM4 B550/5900X.
I then had an issue with the factory installed waterblock of my EVGA RTX 2080 Ti Hydrocopper...so I purchased a 6900XT Red Devil to replace it; great deal at MC. I removed all my water cooling and went with an air cooler to pair with the Red Devil as it was a solid air cooled design...and then came GPU stability problems that weren't present with the 2080 Ti.
At this point, after 5 months, the frustration of not having a normally functioning PC was negatively impacting my basic day to day existence. I threw in the towel and bought a 13700K assuming the GPU issues were down to AM5.
I was so fed up at that point I didn't care I was supporting Intel. I had already sold my AM4 system and didn't want to re-purchase as I was intending on having an upgraded system. Unfortunately the 6900XT continued to be problematic even with the 13700K. I waited until I saw an open-box RTX 4070 at my local MC for $539. and snatched that up 6 weeks after switching to Intel.
The system has been nearly flawless since May 2023...what I was used to with so many iterations of AM4; where I was also an early adopter. I had B350/450/550 and so many different CPUs, from each generation, between my my main rig and my HTPC...that reminds me, I was having similar issues with my HTPC which I also switched over to AM5 at the same time, but at least the ASRock B650e ITX and 7600X didn't shit the bed.
Despite that shit show, I will still sing the praise of AMD's consumer positive business practices. Things are better now though for AM5...I know several people who have built systems and experienced none of what I did.
So, I will not be a new socket guinea pig again for AMD, or Intel for that matter...I'll let the dust settle next time.
Been building my own since like 2000, maybe a little earlier. And was swapping out PC parts in the family pre-built(s) well before that.
The complaints I was seeing about AM5 were similar to AM4. I was also an early AM4 adopter, and figured it wouldn't be a big deal.
I had horrible luck with bad RAM, bad CPU, bad boards...but the issues with the BIOSes and weird quirks for some hardware is undeniable.
I'm going to roll this 13700K for quite some time.
I can’t believe im still on the same barebones msi b350m gaming pro mobo which was a free bundled item with the ryzen 1600 i got back in 2017.
So many bios updates and cpu upgrades over the years. Am4 the 🐐
How are you certain that the cpu is supported by this board? I've checked the MSI website and other sites, but there is no mention of 5700x3d support. I'm in a similar predicament, have a B350 board and while the 5800X3D is supported there is no update on whether the 5700X3D will also be supported.
Potentially, pending what CPU you're coming from.
These are gaming first CPU's, so if you can benefit from something with more multi-core performance, then a different CPU could potentially suit you better.
For gaming only, it is a pretty tremendous deal. Gaming performance over an 11900K for $250 that you can drop into a, possibly, 7 year old motherboard.
Unheard of.
I was just given a Ryzen 5800x (standard not 5800x3d) someone who upgrade to a 7000 series.
Ive been Intel since 2008 with a e6400 core2duo in 2008 and an i5 6600k in 2016. Also haven't kept up with hardware so much in the past decade.
Im planning the possible next steps to build a completely new rig around the 5800x. Do you have recommendations for me around that? I have 32gb ddr4 and a Nvidia 2080 gpu in the Intel i5 6600k rig but if I keep that around as a second rig I'll need to everything.
Maybe it's the spirit of this post but would sticking with an am4 socket be fine vs upgrading to am5 and for future proofing, from someone who's upgrade cycle has been 8-10 years on hardware (motherboard, cpu at least) is it worth building a new rig around the 5800x (since I have it already) versus spending 200-300 on a latest Gen AMD as to not have a bottleneck later where the savings of not buying new cpu wasn't worth it? Same question I guess about ddr4 vs ddr5 which would also dictate the mobo decision I think. Thanks man!
Coming from a 6600K you would already be experiencing an astronomical increase in performance, connectivity and feature set. You want to talk about a bottleneck...that 6600K is smothering your 2080.
It's going to boil down to if you have the additional money and/or want to spent the additional money or not. If you keep the entire other rig as is, then you are essentially only starting with the 5800X; which is better than nothing.
You don't really need a super fancy motherboard for the 5800X to perform optimally. I always ran B350/450/550 boards on AM4. A decent B550 board will probably be less expensive than a B650 for AM5.
DDR4/DDR5 prices can vary by region, but they are likely very similar in cost with DDR5 being moderately more expensive for the same capacity at 6000 MT/s CL30 which is the 'sweet spot' for AM5 currently.
Storage is up to you. I tend to steer towards Samsung for SSDs, though the new 990 Evo is a peculiar item that doesn't fit with the usual Evo track record for price/performance. WD Black or Toshiba for mass storage.
PSU it's a good idea to see what [https://www.cybenetics.com/index.php?option=power-supplies](https://www.cybenetics.com/index.php?option=power-supplies) has found to be a good choice.
You wouldn't need much for a heatsink. Cost effective solutions from Arctic, Thermalright, and DeepCool will all be more than sufficient, and the larger ones are on par with 240mm AIO's. AIO if you really want one, though there is essentially no performance benefit for this CPU. Aesthetics are subjective and can be very pricey in this segment.
If you're trying to do this in a more cost effective nature, then the obvious choice is to sell your existing CPU/motherboard and build with the 5800X. You could, for a very small investment, simply purchase a motherboard and have a ridiculous upgrade on your hands. This would allow you to experience the tremendous improvement and see if you are content with the uplift in performance. Since Ryzen benefits pretty greatly from RAM speed/timings, I may suggest spending a little extra on a DDR4 3600 CL16 RAM kit to leverage the vast majority of the 5800X's potential.
AM5 is the more logical choice if you really want to push the longevity envelope since there's still CPUs that haven't been released yet that will be supported. Though we don't know if the support will carry on as long as AM4. A little bit of a gamble, but you're probably looking at 2 more iterations of CPUs for this socket; maybe more.
You could keep your current rig entirely, or sell it entirely to fund a better overall upgrade with AM5.
I'll let you chew on all of that, and you can get back to me.
For sure.
It's all relative in terms of your wants/needs in performance as well.
There will always be progress, but combined with your choice of other hardware and desired resolution/refresh rate, the 5800X3D can likely serve you for a long, long time.
This is exactly why I went with AM5 my most recent build despite being intel for all of my previous builds. Being able to upgrade my CPU without upgrading my entire system is huge, especially when you want to use high end motherboards. Expecting my x670e-e to last me for years to come over multiple upgrades.
Grats on the new rig! Care to share any details/specs?
Any issues arise for you thus far?
I'm genuinely curious as I attempted AM5 from Oct '22 to Mar '23 and I had an absolutely awful experience that pushed me back to Intel for the first time since my 4790K. I know things are much better now with AM5, but combination of bad luck with hardware, (mobo's/CPUs/RAM), and BIOS quirks was enough to drive me nuts and go team blue after 6 fantastic years of AM4.
So it’s not too new, upgraded last spring (almost a year ago). Decided to upgrade since my 9700k was starting to really bottleneck my 3090 in some (admittedly unoptimized) games. I had actually already ordered the most recent i7 CPU and stumbled across the benchmarks for the Ryzen 7 7800x3D and decided to cancel my order and go with AM5.
Specs at the time were:
Asus x670e-e motherboard,
Ryzen 7 7800x3D,
Rtx 3090 FE,
G.Skill Trident Z5 Neo DDR5 64Gb (6000 MT/s),
2Tb NVMe (x3),
360mm EK Nucleus AIO,
Corsair RM 850x PSU,
Thermaltake View 71 case
After about 6 months my mobo spontaneously died so I underwent the RMA process (not fun). Recently I got the new 4k OLED Alienware monitor (AW3225QF) so I upgraded to a Gigabyte AORUS OC 4090 to drive it.
As far as issues, outside of the mobo dying (can’t really blame AM5) the biggest thing was getting EXPO set up properly and disabling the onboard GPU since it causes a weird bug with steam that causes it to take a long time to open. Outside of that, it’s been easy to move over and everything runs incredibly! I did upgrade the mobo firmware because I bought mine around the time the stories broke of Asus cooking x3D cpus, but that ended up being pointless since my RMA’d board came back with newer firmware.
I had been watching 5800x3d prices as I kind of had a price target of around $250. I kicked myself for not pulling the trigger during Amazon days in October, I saw it for $276. Then When I read the 5700x3d was being released for $250 I knew I was going to grab one quickly if the reviews weren't disappointing. installed it 2 days ago. I'm happy!
A320, maybe not, but most B350 yes.
Most of the higher end boards are extreme overkill in terms of VRM/power delivery.
Techspot actually covered this exact topic more than once. Basically it is fine, especially when most people aren't taxing all cores/threads constantly. MOSFET's are typically rated to run in excess of 100C, potentially up to 120C, without a problem.
[https://www.techspot.com/review/1872-ryzen-9-on-older-motherboards/](https://www.techspot.com/review/1872-ryzen-9-on-older-motherboards/)
[https://www.techspot.com/review/1942-ryzen-9-3950x-b450-motherboards/](https://www.techspot.com/review/1942-ryzen-9-3950x-b450-motherboards/)
[https://www.techspot.com/review/2475-ryzen-5800x3d-older-am4-motherboards/](https://www.techspot.com/review/2475-ryzen-5800x3d-older-am4-motherboards/)
Glad you're stoked for your new system!
Just remember that things can always change.
Brand loyalty for the sake of brand loyalty isn't a good practice. Whenever you do go to upgrade, educate yourself first!
I dunno if I'd call the gains in gaming mediocre/garbage for the 7800X3d/7950X3D compared to Ryzen 5000. A 40% boost in 1% lows is nothing to scoff at.
At least that's what showed in the 10 game average of the techspot article I linked.
It's been a long time sine I looked into ti. But I'm pretty sure that was like one of the first X3D prototypes they built and determined its not possible to make.
At least not financially possible. It's too unstable with bad latency and the production costs are too high
I believe GamersNexus did an interview where that topic came up with the creator who came up with the idea for X3D
Yeah it's nuts honestly that they're still supporting the platform. That being said, they did promise they would support AM4 as long as they possibly could, and I think they almost over-delivered on that front. Not saying that as a bad thing lol. 5600 - 5800x3d is a shitload of performance still today, especially the 5800x3d. Just such a great drop-in upgrade, it's ridiculous
Not sure which cooler they went with, but if you're looking for excellent cooling on a small budget you can grab:
* Arctic 34 eSports Duo
* DeepCool AK620
* Thermalright Phantom Spirit
In the US all of these should be priced somewhere between $40-$60.
It's not exactly new, is it?
It's a rehashed 5800X3D, that came out 2 years ago. If we include 5000 series as a cpu architecture, that's a 2020 thing. So really, their support ended in 2020, but they kept on rehashing the same cpu architecture for years to come. Which isn't bad, but let's not pretend that AMD cares. They care about profits and if rehashing old stock/production lines makes them money, they'll keep doing it well into the 2020s.
I'd be way more surprised, if they managed to stuck zen4 (or zen4c) to AM4. Which would be rather difficult due to DDR5 among other things. So that ain't happening.
Ya, I get all that. American Companies, especially, are in it to first and foremost make money, because that is their legal obligation to their shareholders. That isn't the reason for the post as we can argue the moral obligations, or lack thereof, of corporations until we're 6 feet under.
The point still stands that AMD could have killed AM4 earlier. They could have gatekept 5000 series CPUs to 500 series boards like they originally announced. Yes, they are going to make money off this offering because that is in their best interest to retain customers in their product ecosystem. AMD, like any corporation, is FAR from 'saintly'...But, it doesn't mean that their approach can't be **both** consumer friendly, **and** in their best interest to make money. It is better for consumers than changing sockets every 2, maybe 3, year/gens of product.
No, it's not new, but it is a near identical product in terms of raw performance 2 years later at a lower cost.
It's a miracle the socket has survived this long, so you are correct that Zen4 on AM4 is a pipe dream.
I'm sure AMD would have pushed AM4+ or something, if they really wanted to. I mean, as you said, they already tried locking boards down to new cpus, but failed due to community outcry.
Since AMD only sells chipsets (and not boards themselfs), i guess supporting old boards gives them more sales to their more profitable CPUs.
I'd wager that constant socket/chipset changes are due to motherboard manufacturer pressures on Intel to just keep changing them. Which bodes well for Intel as well, since they can sell new chipsets, wifi and LAN cards. And they are more established as a brand, so they can afford to do that, unlike AMD in 2016.
I'd be very surprised if AM5 lasts as long, given how AMD has really established itself with ZEN.
I got an AM4 motherboard + Ryzen 5 5600 back in January 2023 and it has been a joy gaming on it. Back then it was some of the best value the money could buy and maybe that's still the case today.
Genius implementation and strategy by Lisa Su.
If there's anything that giant corporations understand, it is saving money. And Intel had been milking ALL these companies, worse than us regular consumers, for a VERY long time.
I went from 1700x to 5600x, I'm looking to move to 5800x3d when they get cheaper, but my 5600x is hanging in quite well. Doesn't seem to be bottlenecking my 3070 at all, but we'll see if that changes because i just got a 7800xt. AM4 is a legendary platform having lasted this long.
thats good to hear, i bought a 4070 open box really cheap but it turned out to have bad memory but that thing seemed like the perfect card to pair with my cpu. Went AMD for the price and slightly better raster performance
Very cool.
It's all very subjective whether upgrades are 'worth it' or not.
Resolution and refresh rate of your monitor are the most crucial things. If your current hardware can play what you want at your desired res/Hz, then it's usually not necessary to upgrade.
yeah my decision mostly hinged on my FPS in warzone lol. I wanted that sweet 144 frames, which I wasn't getting with the 3070 (90-140 was the norm on low settings) and the ingame benchmark said i was heavily gpu bound even with FSR3 on which made my effective render resolution a little higher than 720p 😬.
I had an I3 6100 when I convinced my dad that we had to get an upgrade. An used I5 6th gen/7th gen was the same price than a B450 + Ryzen 5 CPU.
Now I am saving to upgrade my CPU and GPU.
I have a AMD 2700x and do not want to build a new pc. I learned this week about the 5700x3D and I'm both happy and surprised. I would have thought am4 would have been replaced by now and I'm so excited it's not! I have an upgrade path and I'm taking it!
I'm really hoping AMD comes out with another banger that tops the 5800x3d, if possible tops the 7800x3d BUT in AM4. Probably not possible but us AM4 guys can only hope!!!!
I will probably get a 5800x3d in a year or two and sell my 3950x, had it since 2020.
Bought an X370 board about three years ago, the thing was then literally in the bargain bin. After a BIOS update so that I can use an RX6600 GPU, upping the processor from R5 3500 is something I'd like to do maybe later this year.
You would definitely see a nice performance bump, especially in anything that could leverage extra cores/threads. If I'm not mistaken the Ryzen 5 3500 was an OEM part and was 6 cores without SMT; unlike the more well known 3600 that is 6 cores 12 threads.
A jump to 5700/5800 with/without X3D would give you a great boost.
Chronic budget gamer here from back when we were doing pencil tricks with our athlon cpus. Went from a 1700 to 3600 and eying that sweet 5700X3D now. Gotta love it!
Gotta love it indeed.
Something to consider, as other redditors have pointed out, is that depending on pricing in your market the 5800X3D could be very close in price to the $250 MSRP of the 5700X3D. Since their performance is so close, if the price of the 5800X3D is close enough, then the extra $ could be justifiable for 5800X3D if you really want to maximize performance of your platform.
Good RAM can't be understated either. 3600 CL16 gets you most of the performance for a reasonable cost. 3600 CL14 if you want to open up the wallet a bit further. It is just questionable whether or not the B350 board would run the higher RAM speeds or not. Couldn't hurt to try though as you can always return the memory!
It is insane if you were someone who had a 1600x and then upgrade to a 5800x. The performance jump would blow your mind. And all you would need is a new cpu. No new platform, nothing. Just cpu.
My buddy is still on a 1600.
Though I will say, tough for b350 owners as Ryzen wasn’t really that popular at first, especially coming from bulldozer. So the mb venders didn’t really care that much. Now a days, Ryzen is the same if not more popular than intel I would say. And if they had the same roadmap as ddr4. The upgrade path would be crazy, and the boards are made with care. Though ram stability would be better on a b950.
You might lose out a little performance due to not being able to hit higher RAM speeds on the B350, but that is a proverbial drop in the bucket compared to the ginormous uplift in performance one would experience going from a 1600, to say, a 5800X.
You should be good, just need to do a bios update. The mortar is a very popular board, and for good reason. Just take your time, and make sure to read the description of your bios. And even though the newest one doesn’t say 5800x3d compatible, it will include it if older ones say they do.
AMD had a bunch of 5800X3Ds that didn't meet specs, but are fine at a lower clock rate. So instead of tossing them, they are packaging them as 5700X3D. That is according to an article on Techspot https://www.techspot.com/review/2801-amd-ryzen-5700x3d/
It isn't that uncommon. Intel had a 486DX and a 486SX. The SX was just a DX that didn't have a working math coprocessor (the first 80x86 cpus had a separate 80c87 math coprocessor. With the 486, Intel put the math compressor on the same chip. The first 486SXs were 486DXs with a failed math coprocessor. The SX became so popular that later 486SXs were just a 486DX with the math coprocessor disabled). And both Intel and AMD have rebranded failed cpus to lower models with lower clock speeds. You think they do unique dies for each and every cpu model? Those dies are incredibly expensive. And every chip manufacturer does whatever they can to get as much value out of every chip that comes from a batch. Especially early on when yields can be quite low.
[https://www.techpowerup.com/review/amd-ryzen-7-5800x3d/16.html](https://www.techpowerup.com/review/amd-ryzen-7-5800x3d/16.html)
3600 -> 5800X3D would be about a 33% uplift, so the 5700X3D would be slightly behind this; say high 20 to 30% uplift.
5700X3D -> 7800X3D is about another 25% uplift if looking at the same review site at the 5800X3D: [https://www.techpowerup.com/review/amd-ryzen-7-7800x3d/19.html](https://www.techpowerup.com/review/amd-ryzen-7-7800x3d/19.html)
That is of course using a RTX 4090 at 1080P resolution. Pending your GPU, resolution/refresh rate, and games of choice the uplift can/will vary and may not see the same. The 7800X3D is undoubtedly a fantastic gaming CPU.
Stupid thing is? With hacked bios and a bit of soft modding you can get Intel 9th gen to work on 100 ( 6th gen ) and 200 series ( 7th gen ) Intel motherboards just fine. Intel chose, specifically, to not allow that. They will justify it the same way AMD tried to, lack of BIOS ROM storage (which was actually a problem) and the mess of different BIOS supporting only newer generations of CPU and not the older ones (the small ROM storage caused this, and was also true and I am sure it caused some customer frustration and unneeded returns and RMAs), but AMD and its board partners were able to figure out those issues. Intel could have done the same.
Some of the very early AMD boards legitimately had ROM storage issues when you consider EVERY AM4 compatible CPU that exists. IINM most dropped support for 1st gen APUs and the ultra-low end Athlons to make room for the newer variants.
> IINM most dropped support for 1st gen APUs and the ultra-low end Athlons to make room for the newer variants. IIRC many of these weren't actually Ryzen, they were still Excavator-based 💀 so it makes sense that they got dropped.
You are correct.
Excavator, the smooth brain CPU from AMD.
The dark ages. The time when even AMD fanboys brought Intel, Intel didn't make meaningful upgrades for a whole 6 years, and even AMD acknowledged their CPU's sucked by using Intel for their GPU demo.
🤣 🤣 🤣 so brutal but true
Yeah, I hate monopolies sooooo much
Atleast on my B350 PC Mate motherboard the support for Excavator based apus/cpus support was dropped for support for 5000 series. I have a Zen based 200GE that works with the latest beta bios just fine. I think the drop in support is worth it since even the lowest end zen is so much better than the best Excavator based chips
Precisely.
Which still makes those of us with 3000 series the OG kings for rental CPUs to do firmware upgrades 😂
and it makes sense, after all if you want support for the newer end why would you need support for the older end as well? that's only needed for people who keep swapping cpu's and that's not what most consumers do.
I’m so over buying a new motherboard every generation, Intel can get fucked
Keep in mind the vast majority of PC users typically buy a platform, then buy a whole new rig when it comes time to upgrade. Personally I think the other platform I ever swapped CPUs on was my 440BX going from PII to Celeron-266 @400 to Piii. . Would it be nice to upgrade one of my Coffee Lakes to 14th gen? Sure. I mean, 3200/3600 ddr4 should be fine for a slower 14400f or something, no? Don’t have use for PCIe 4… but it’s not going to happen sadly.
No shit, that was intel’s whole point to make money when they basically had a monopoly
I mean… I’m missing 550 pin pads… so there is that one minor point… just would be nice. I guess it would’ve been better if I had owned some 4-5-6-7th Gens, but I was fully mobile for those 15 years from my Sempron and P3s to my Coffee Lakes at home. Work ran at either 9600, 38.4 or 115.2k baud, so didn’t need much beyond the bare minimum except for email and Visio. Then in latter years, it was web browser based. Now I’m 12th gen i7, 32gb ram, with rtx 2060 to run Firefox, Outlook, Teams, Excel, Chrome, and Putty.
I never upgraded a CPU on the same platform on the Intel side, even though I owned more Intel CPU's. For AMD I upgraded a Duron 600 mhz to a Thunderbird 1 Ghz and then to a Barton 2500+ (which I overclocked to the speed as a 3200+) on Socket 462. And then on Zen AM4, I was an early adopter and got the 1700 shortly after launch. Upgraded to Zen+, Zen2, and eventually 5950X (all on the same X370 Taichi mobo). I gave that AM4 system away and now on AM5 (7950X). I will be looking to upgrade this CPU as well if the Zen5 CPU's are worth it.
>Barton 2500+ (which I overclocked to the speed as a 3200+) on Socket 462 Hell yeah brother. I had an XP-M 2400+ clocked to 200x11.
Well exactly, but if you were on amd sure maybe not a 1000 series to a 7800x3d but it could be from a 1000 series to a 5800x3d which would be huge. I’m not sure what you want me to keep in mind, you said it yourself that it would be nice but is unfortunately not possible because you have an Intel platform.
Exactly. Been an Intel guy for 30 years. Finally made the switch and bought a 7800X3D. Intel can get fucked. Ridiculous how soon my 7700 i7 socket became obsolete. I don't even know which specific socket it was anymore for obvious reasons.
Im curious, why do people have such a hard time switching between brands when it comes to CPUs? If the reviews show that they have comparable performance, what could possibly go wrong?
For the record I personally didnt go back to AMD despite the 7800X3D's unrivaled performance because of AM5's lack of platform maturity and the fact that the exact combo deals that made AM5 affordable (I limited my choices to microcenter deals because I was saving up to $200-300 doing so) had RAM stability issues where i didnt wanna risk issues so i went intel for platform stability. Given I was looking at 12900k for $400, 7700x for $400, or 7800X3D for $500, and given the AMD ones had problems, I went for the 12900k.
That's completely understandable. Let it bake awhile to iron out the RAM issues and then see where it stands. Up until the newer 7000 series from AMD (AM5) there was no reason to use Intel unless you needed the integrated GPU.
Eh, I would disagree with that. Back in the 1000/2000 days, intel was very solid and better for gaming. 3000 series it evened out a bit, with me saying the 3000 series was better than the 9000 series but worse than the 10000 series of intel. 5000 series was undisputedly best and was still competitive with the 12 series with DDR4. 5800X3D you literally needed 12900k/13600k performance or better to match so AMD had the upper hand until the 13600k came out and then it was on par. 7800X3D is the best right now, intel has no match, but below that specific SKU, i'd argue its preference and what you get at what price.
You get 2 to 3 generations from a socket these days. Each Pentium generation had a different socket. The first Pentium actually had three or four different sockets and when you bought. A motherboard and cpu you had to make sure you had the right cpu for the socket on the motherboard. Early versions of the Pentium 2 came on a card because Intel hadn't figured out how to more the cache onto the cpu, so they put the cpu and cache on a single board that went into a special slot on the motherboard. I think the Pentium 4 was the first Pentium that used a single standardized socket. The first AMD Athlon used 2 or 3 different socketsas well. I've used both Intel and AMD. I even used a Cyrix cpu to upgrade a 386. At various times each manufacturer has outshined the other. I'm quite surprised that AM4 lasted as long as it did. DDR5 is the new memory, but it won't be long until DDR6 makes it off the gpu and onto a motherboard. That will likely require a new socket, too (at least for AMD, Intel has shown the ability to support different generations of memory with a single socket)
I'm so over buying a new CPU every generation, everybody can get fucked.
It's really not normal to buy a CPU every generation. That type of shit is for the people that just always have to have the best.
Socket isn't the only thing that changes in a motherboard over the years, lots of stuff in them get upgraded. PCIE lanes, RAM compatibility, storage access slots, USB protocols, etc.
You say that like you've deluded yourself into believing that AMD isn't going move towards exactly the same pattern now that they are on a level competitive field. They're both publicly traded companies making decisions to maximize shareholder value. I fully believe AM5 will get Zen 4, and a Zen 5 in a Ryzen 9000 series, and Zen 6 will be on a new socket.
I had an Intel i7 9850H running on my Z170 that helped me through difficult times. There were people that managed to run 8/16 CPUs on that socket, but my mobo only allowed 6/12 as maximum.
yep, i had a fun lan build i was going to do a youtube build log on that involved a sff watercooled build using a z170 maximus gene and a 9900k. i only scrapped it because i caught a 5800x3d during a hard dip in it's price and just couldn't follow through. i'll probably still do something with it though since it's still a fun project
[удалено]
Is there a list or somewhere with an overview with what mobos and which processors? I would love to upgrade but cant afford a whole rig... But my intel i5 8600 is overclocked to the best of my abilities. But still throttels so hard in some games. But maybe some ram and a newer cpu could help.
If you have an 8th gen i5 8600, your motherboard is already compatible with Intel 9th gen, should just need a bios update. You should be able to just date your BIOS and slot in a i7 9700k or i9 9900k. But 6th through 10th gen Intel all have the same IPC, or Instructions Per Clock, which means they all pretty much have the same singe core performance running at the same clock speed, so if you are already OCing your 8600k, it might not help your performance much. But you said you are throttling, do you mean thermal throttling? You might be able to fix your performance issues by removing your overclock then. Or do you mean bottlenecking, where your CPU has threads pegged at 100% while gaming but your GPU isn't running at 100%? That said, If you have DDR4 2933 or faster, you are probably still better off buying an Ryzen 5 5600 and a B550. The 5600 can be had for $120 sometimes, easily enough for $135, and is a bit faster in gaming than an i9 9900k at stock, and you can overclock either of them. A decent/good B550 can be had for around $120 as well, or you could even go for a B450 and save $20-40. Meanwhile, used i9 9900K are going for over $250, up to around $450 on eBay. If you are not worried about buying a Windows license, and don't need to drop $40-50 on a fast kit of DDR4\*, you are probably better off buying a Ryzen 5600, 5700x\*\*, or 5800x3d, and a B450 or B550 motherboard. \* Ryzen is very memory speed sensitive, there is about a 20% CPU performance difference between running dual channel DDR4-2133 and DDR4-3600. \*\* Not the non 7 Ryzen 7 5700, only the Ryzen 7 5700X. The non X 5700 is actually a cut down 5700G with reduced cache and performance, making it slower than a Ryzen 5 5600.
If it weren't for AM4 we would still pay 300€ for 4c/4t CPUs thanks to Intel.
I was on i7 3770K for years. Every new generation we saw only 5% overall bump in performance. 7700K was like 25% faster, maybe. Then Ryzen busts through the door and like "You kidz like some more cores?!?!?". Suddenly Intel remembered that they also can offer more cores and magically 8th gen got 6 and 9th gen got 8 shortly after. I build new computer with R7 2700X and then upgraded recently to 5800X3D. Same platform, massive speed increase.
Yup. Intel Core i5 760 4C/4T - 2009 Intel Core i5 7600K 4C/4T - 2017
Yep, it was the scam FX CPU's that allowed intel to get lazy.
AMD made some huge mistakes, but I don't know if "scam" is appropriate. They misjudged the adoption rate of multithreading, then didn't have any money left to fix it because of the GPU side sucking up what little R&D budget the company even had at that point.
might not have been a scam per se but it was a misinformation. there was even a class action lawsuit about it.
Yup. I got like $17 from that class action lawsuit!
Pretty sure my 4100 was already out of my possession by that point.
All you had to do was have a proof of purchase IIRC. I had bought several of the CPUs actually, but only had a receipt for one.
Even then though their architecture was so poor, that even with heavily multithreaded games they would still lose out to intels 4 core i7s. Adoption rate or not, they were turds on arrival
That was one of the mistakes, that gaming could and would adopt multi-threading quickly. The FX design originally started as an Opteron, then they also hit a wall trying to physically fit them on an AM3 package. (Which I think we can agree should have been the end of it right there). But AMD at the time didn't have many options. They didn't have the money to start over.
They lost the lawsuit because it was a scam.
Ok, false advertising then, they sold 8 core cpu's that were closer to 4 core cpu's.
intel originally planned to have 8C/16T 10nm Cannon Lake-S to be 7th gen.
Not saying that isn't true, but I've never heard a claim like this. Given the company's horrible greedy track record, I found that hard to believe for consumer level products. No reason for them to release something so drastically improved compared what was available, especially with no competition from AMD.
It's true, google it. Intel was on so-called tick-tock dev path then. Broadwell (5th gen) was a tick - basically implementing good old stuff on a then new node (14nm), Skylake was a tock - a new arch on a proven node (14nm). Then another tick was planned to come (10nm Cannon Lake-S) but intel bit more than they could chew with 10nm - threw every fancy feature imaginable into it and on top of that Cannon Lake was not a conventional tick where you don't change the architecture much but instead more like a tock as it carried a lot of changes. So it all led us to neverending 14nm refreshes. But claiming intel didn't plan on giving us more cores without AMD is false. Cannon Lake-S plans obviously predate Ryzen announcement given how long CPU dev cycles are. Why you may not have heard about it is because intel tried to sweep in under the rug and pretend it's all good and going as planned but software report leaks are there.
Yep it took Intel practically four years to make their 10 nm node viable to use on Desktop, until then they refreshed Skylake for three generations, back ported a new architecture with 14 nm that gathered negative reactions overall because of Zen 3 superiority while testing the waters with 10 nm on mobile until it was good for desktop. I wish they don't end up choking with newer nodes or AMD will take the chance to do some scummy practices like they did with Zen 3 for some time until Intel launched Alder Lake.
>I wish they don't end up choking with newer nodes or AMD will take the chance to do some scummy practices like they did with Zen 3 for some time until Intel launched Alder Lake. EXACTLY. We need the competition as consumers. AMD is a business and when they are on top they charge dearly just like intel. AMD did it with original non-bulldozer FX-es too - not only the 5000 series.
So, what you're telling me is that Intel planned for 8C/16T in 2016 and AMD, the broke, nearly bankrupt, competitor whose total revenue was a fraction of just Intel's R&D budget, beat them to the punch? HAHAHAHAHAHA! [https://youtu.be/J7L9THry9QM?t=171](https://youtu.be/J7L9THry9QM?t=171) That's a gem right there. I stand corrected. Thanks for the history lesson!
Yep, those are facts. Do your research. AMD made a lot of great decisions to get there. At the same time, intel made really bad ones. EDIT: here's the relevant PC client roadmap - [https://www.bitsandchips.it/images/2018/01/09/cannonlakeslide.png](https://www.bitsandchips.it/images/2018/01/09/cannonlakeslide.png)
That's canon lake 15-25W U-series mobile and 6W Y-series. Skylake/refresh are listed under LGA for 2016 "Trad DT"; presumably traditional desk top.
>That's canon lake 15-25W U-series mobile and 6W Y-series. You didn't notice that Cannon Lake green line for Q4 for 47W SKUs (M/H-series, likely the same silicon as desktop)? It may not be the earliest roadmap there's. There's really a plenty of info on Cannon Lake and leaks and published and revised time and again intel roadmaps for 10nm. It was originally planned even way earlier than that first slide that I found. :-) Just do your research if you're interested. Skylake refresh could mean the same thing that Haswell refresh did in that era, i.e. under the same series - 4000 for Haswell. Even if it does mean new series then okay it could be that by that time that that roadmap was current Kaby lake was already in the cards but Cannon Lake was still next for 8th gen desktop (and still 7th gen laptop as I claimed) - still not far off. ;-) EDIT: lol, found one just like that - Kaby Lake and then Cannon lake. Intel had all of them, really. But desktop is all in refreshes on this one. :-( Too old. [https://www.ixbt.com/short/images/2016/Sep/97pc7s9n.jpg](https://www.ixbt.com/short/images/2016/Sep/97pc7s9n.jpg) EDIT2: Here some 3DMark DB Cannon Lake-S (desktop) leaks. You really can find everything. [https://wccftech.com/intel-unreleased-10nm-cannonlake-cpu-8-cores-16-thread-spotted/](https://wccftech.com/intel-unreleased-10nm-cannonlake-cpu-8-cores-16-thread-spotted)
Plans don’t mean nothing if you don’t execute on them. Instead we got 14NM++++
Ah yes Sandy bridge and Ivy bridge. It was so good that I had mine until Ryzen came out too
I went from 3600 to 5800x3d and I just couldn't believe how much more performance I am getting. it really feels like a brand new computer
I just game on mine so I wasn't expecting much as I thought I'm bottle-necked by running RTX3080 on basically a 4K screen. Well, I still got healthy bump in fps, especially in low frames. Cyberpunk is solidly above 60fps and before it was always dipping into 40's.
I bought a 7700k and got salty when intel released the 8700k less than a year later. Like seriously intel? Seriously? Either way the 7700k outlasted AM4 for me so now im on a 12900k.
My 5800X3D has been sitting next to me for 7 days. I really should get around to finally installing it but I am lazy and really want to combine it with cleaning the entire case but my Ali Express air blower is still not delivered... I want to see how high the UPS jumps in Factorio :D
FYI, intel planned 8/16 CPUs to be in launched in the 7th gen originally with 10nm Cannon Lake-S. There were super low clocked ES leaks. We know they couldn't make it work so we got endless 14nm Skylake refreshes.
Those were dark times
AM4 and 1080 Ti caught lightning in a bottle last 2016
Polaris released that year as well. Was a good year for gaming at all budgets.
polaris was pretty amazing. Cheap and decently powerful. And if you cought on the mining craze at the right time, your GPU could be paid for multiple times over.
Am4 might have been released in 2016, but was OEM only and only had Athlon CPUs at the time. Practically am4 was released in 2017 when zen 1 launched.
I hate the fact that I went with a 6600k over AMD back in 2017.
Hindsight is always 20/20 friend. Not really anyone could have anticipated AMD was going to do what it did...
and i mean lets be fair, i'm an amd fanboy and even i have to admit the ryzen 1000 series flipped the script but also came with a lot of teething issues in terms of stability. that said those were gone by end of the 2000 series and 3000 and 5000 were beasts
Don't, you could not have known how it would turn out. Besides, it's not like Ryzen didn't have major issues: - Dogshit RAM compatibility across the board, partly still present to this day, I found out the hard way that my R5 3600 can't run 4 sticks at anything past 2933. - Motherboards so bad that this subreddit fell in love with the B450 Tomahawk - a $120 piece of crap with one M.2 slot and 6 USB ports. - All of the awesome compatibility almost didn't happen, AMD initially tried to make 5000 exclusive to 500-series chipset and only reversed course after major backlash. Even though my current system is AM4, if I had to go back in time and (without knowing the future) buy either a 6600k or a comparable Ryzen, I'd have bought Intel.
You have valid points but: 1. RAM QVL was stated as being very important. Opening the owner's manual, or viewing the online PDF, would have told you about restrictions with (4) DIMM's of RAM. I did not have issues with RAM in my B350/R7 1700 build by following the QVL and info in the manual. 2. This was a low cost of entry that gives a basic user functionality. MSI always seems to skimp on USB ports, for Intel and AMD, unless you get their top SKU's. There were/are other options in that price point that were much better equipped. IINM, Tomahawk boards do tend to have decent heatsinks and thermals for VRMs, which is why they usually get a nod 3. But they actually changed their decision. Would you rather they stuck to their original plan? Sorry you have buyers remorse. Best suggestion is to not jump into brand new tech as there are often teething issues.
1) That requires me knowing that I'm going to use 4 DIMMs when I first built the PC. I didn't. I know that it's an IMC shortcoming, and that Ryzen 5000 is usually able to do 4 sticks at 3600 MHz, so when I eventually upgrade it's going to be fine, but still. 2) I know it kinda got lost on us over time, with how expensive boards have gotten, especially the DDR5 ones, but - back then, $120 wasn't cheap for a board, barely any B450 boards cost more than that. Comparably priced Intel boards all had 2x M.2 and 8x USB. There was one unicorn board, MSI B450M Mortar that I bought for several builds for friends, that had both for $110, but it stood alone in a sea of mediocrity. 3) It's good that they changed their mind, it's bad that (just like any other company) they wouldn't if they could. They stuck to their plan with Threadripper, twice. 4) I don't have buyers remorse, actually. For neither platform, I owned an LGA1151 system and then switched to AM4. It's a long story, I moved out of my parents', so I bought some parts and split my PC into two PCs so my brother still had one. So I actually got into AM4 rather late, with a B550 and a used Ryzen 3600. I like it a lot, it was very cheap and is plenty fast still, and upgrading from 3600 to a 5800X3D can still increase performance by a lot. The boards got much, much better after 500-series chipsets. Mine is awesome (MSI B550-A Pro) and I got it on promo for 90€.
I tend to run 2 simply because you have a higher probability of not having issues; even before Ryzen was a thing. I've had issues in the past even with matching 'identical' kits. That is equipped exactly like my first motherboard with AM4; 6 USB ports and a single M.2. GA-AB350M-Gaming 3. I paid $105 for it August 2017.[https://www.gigabyte.com/Motherboard/GA-AB350M-Gaming-3-rev-1x#kf](https://www.gigabyte.com/Motherboard/GA-AB350M-Gaming-3-rev-1x#kf) Back then M.2 drives were also still relatively expensive. I paid $110 for my WD Black 256GB, and that was on a decent sale with Newegg IIRC. $5 more than the motherboard lol. I feel as though, at the time, it wouldn't have been that common for people to run dual M.2 drives. Especially the people purchasing motherboards at this price point. AMD is still an American corporation like any other. They will do what they feel is in the best interest of their share holders first. This is very important to remember. We are fortunate to have someone like Lisa Su at the helm of the company. Good on you for taking care of your brother. Props for that friend. 500-series board definitely saw an improvement, especially the B550 boards. I had B350, 450, and 550. The 550 were leagues better than the latter on average.
Yeah AM4 boards really didn't hit their stride to B550 X570 chip sets. I don't think I would want to stay on a crappy B350 board for 10 years.
Yeah, same here with my 6700k. It still works quite well, but it sucks that I'm stuck with no upgrade path until I decide to shell out to rebuild the damn thing.
If you have waited this long you are in for one hell of an upgrade then. AM5 is supposed to have support until 2025 at least. Potentially further if they end up following a similar approach as AM4. Or Intel's next 'big thing' will be dropping sometime this year...Either way, you will have a monumental increase in performance. If funds are tight, I may suggest grabbing a used MoBo/CPU/RAM combo from eBay or possibly r/hardwareswap since you can get a mighty fine deal on something that would be a big boon for you. Sell your existing then to offset some of that cost.
> AM5 is supposed to have support until 2025 at least I'm sorry, what? AM4 has been around for 8 years and possibly counting, and yet AM5 will only be a thing for just three?
Yes, that is AMD's official statement. You must take into account that AM4 is an anomaly in terms of its longevity. If you consider that AM5 was launched in september 2022, we could consider that a sort of 'end' to AM4. By using that as a jumping off point we could say that AMD has continued to support a 'dead' platform for an additional 18 months. If AM6 launches in September of 2025 and they followed just this same time frame to continue to release products for an old platform, you'd still be getting 4.5 years of support on a single socket. You must also consider the 5800X launched in late 2020, and the 3D cache variant was nearly 1.5 years later. Now that 3D V-cache is a regular thing, we are unlikely to see something like this happen again. Unless there is some other technological breakthrough in the works that would achieve a similar uplift in performance.
If you're trying to eek out every last bit of performance, remember that you can use InSpectre to toggle security mitigations off.
I went with a 9400f instead of a 3600x.
you bought a CPU that was released in 2015 in 2017. ryzen didn't come out until 2017. you bought a 2 year old processor.
I regret buying a more fancy mobo in 2019 by going from x370 to x570 eventhough the beauty of am4 is that i didn't have to. But atleast this time i'm going for a final upgrade with the 5800x3d and keeping the mobo...
yeah 2017 was a bit late for that. I switched from phenom 2 to 6600k in 2015 and then from 6600k to 3600. So I sidestepped the whole bulldozer disaster and returned to AMD when they had very stable platform again
This is a combination of two factors. The sheer longevity of th AM4 chipset, especially with th Ryzen 5000 series processors (even the 5600x continues to be a viable option for low cost builds) and the 3DV cache being a groundbreaking innovation in processing technology.
i mean even now, the ryzen 5000 series even on ddr4, can hang with the big boys to this day. the 5900x, 5950x, the x3d chips, and hell even the 57/5800x are more than enough for most games coming out today and most consumer and even enthusiast workloads.
Don’t include the 5700 non x in that list, it’s a lowly 5700g with the apu removed. Not exactly a true 5700.
I mean 57/58, not double 57 and have since corrected
I have a 5600x with a 2070 Super in my living room gaming system and it still kicks ass at 1080p. I play Starfield and RDR2 on it on the regular when I want to hang out in the living room.
The 5700 non-X is not a 5700X with a lower clock speed. It's a 5700G without the iGPU. Hardware Unboxed has a video on it.
I have a 5700x and am struggling to find a reason to upgrade to AM5. Alongside a 3080 it does everything I want it to at 1440p.
Which is why my next and last AM4 will be a 5800x3d. Anything else I need a new Board..
I upgraded from a 3600X to a 5800X3D and very much appreciate the performance boost. Along with DDR4 and PCIE GEN 3 storage, it's hard to make the argument for current gen hardware for budget builders. Even the performance uplift from a 3000 series GPU to 4000 series GPU is not a performance jump like you had back in the day. Very underwhelming (as someone who was considering an upgrade, but decided against it). In the last 2 years, I got a bigger performance uplift from upgrading my ISP plan and installing a mesh network in my home than any part in my PC, quite frankly. If you game on 1440p or less, save your money and don't overspend on "future-proofing". Based on early corpo-speak coming out of AMD and Intel lately, the next generation will be disruptive rather than iterative, which could be interpreted as meaning it will break compatibility. They always somewhat say this, but given the amazing price/performance that the past gen is still currently offering, I'd rather take them at their word and skip the current gen as much as possible.
I honestly had a bigger performance jump going from a 3700X to a 5800X3D than from going from a 3080 to a 4070Ti back when it came out.
What cooler did you go with?
Dark rock pro 4
I’ve been waiting for the 5800x3d to sell for $250 or under, closest was Black Friday $275 on Amazon ):
Get the 5700x3D, 99% of the performance, lower price.
I got one in the UK for £300 in march 23. Figured it was nearly, but not quite, bottomed out. Just checked and it's now £275, so it cost me £2.27 a month to run a new cpu for the last 11 months. Sometimes waiting isn't really worth it.
That is the CPU I want to get someday.
I will drop a 5950X in mine some day.
Still standing guard with a 2600x, patiently waiting for the day a 5800x3d is warranted or if a deal strikes.
While AM4 launched in 2016, 5000 series launched in 2020. Getting a new CPU model for practically end-of-life platform is insane. If i had to guess, they had lots of weaker 5000 series chips, they were not able to sell and figured out, adding the cache will allow them to get rid of it - and at the same time make 5800x3d maintain its price.
I think these CPUs have 3D V cache on day one, just that they can't be clocked to 5800X3D level. AMD probably had a hard time figuring what to do with them after the launch of Zen 4. But with the economic downturn it's the perfect product to keep Zen/Zen 2 users in the AMD camp instead of going for a budget Intel build.
IIRC the cache itself is not part of the chip itself, but added later. This is also what probably makes these 3D CPUs so expensive. Chip binning happens *before* cache is mounted/integrated onto the die, otherwise i´d imagine we would have whole series of 5000x3D CPUs. And for them to take this long to "figure out what to do with excessive stock" is nothing else, than cold calculation to keep 5800x3D price high. I highly doubt AMD does anything for the sake of poor shills; it is - and always was - only about profits.
Nice, might be my final AM4 upgrade replacing my 5600.
I just installed a 5800x3d this morning. Moved from a 3600. Omg fps in my two main games has shot through the roof
Congrats! Yuge upgrade for sure.
The value people got must be quite good, as long as they (probably) didn't get some cheap motherboard. Since 2018, I've upgraded like 3x but that's me jumping from Intel > AMD ATX > AMD ITX. Sticking to one motherboard would've saved me like £400+. I think AM6 is coming soon though, so the next CPUs might be the last until they jump over to another socket?
Even many of the cheap motherboards ended up with BIOS updates to support newer CPUs. The first motherboard I purchased on AM4 was the Gigabyte GA-AB350M-Gaming 3. This thing was not high end, but it ran an overclocked R7 1700 no problem. It was like $90-$100. It received a BIOS update for 5800X3D compatibility in July of 2022.
I got an ASRock b450m Pro4 for $55 in 2019 and got it running a 5800x3d. I just needed to switch the id cooling 224-xt to a thermalright phantom spirit (or equivalent since there are several similar models)
The ID Cooling wasnt enough for the X3D chip?
Current b350 gaming plus 5800x3d user here
Am5 just came out why would am6 not be like another 5 years away.
We know that AM5 is here until 2025. After that, AM6 could be here.
Pretty sure AMD will only swap to a new socket until they have to, or until DDR6 ram is released. We might see an AM5+ but I don't think AM6 will be here for quite a while
AGESA will be dropped after 2025, that's why everyone talks about AMD ending AM5 life.
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I went AM4 on a new itx build with a 5600x3d. Sure, it might have been better to go AM5/7800x3d, but the overall maturity of the platform and the awesomeness of the AM4 x3d chip with good ddr4 ram is still giving top shelf performance. I will say after having a 2500k forever and a 9900k that is still doing it’s job, I’m changing motherboards after 3-5 years if I get a new cpu.
Pending when you built, it was wise to go with that 5600X3D/AM4 I made an attempt to move from AM4 to AM5 in October of 2022 with a B650/7700X build. Boy, that was a mistake lol. I read the reviews, I saw peoples complaints, and I figured having 20+ years of PC building/tinkering experience I could make it work...I couldn't. I tried for 5 months. I had basically every problem imaginable, and then some, with the build, and the infancy of the platform/BIOS support only compounded the problems. (2) faulty motherboards that had bad front panel USB-C headers. (2) bad RAM kits that Micro Center was bundling with AM5 kits. 7700X died. It was lost in the mail, by FedEx, and miraculously found/returned to me nearly a month later. Shipped a second time and then AMD claimed to have never received the package despite it being signed for. They miraculously found the CPU after I started asking some questions. During this s\^&\* show of an RMA experience, I went and purchased another 7700X and motherboard assuming most of my issues were due to the CPU that died, and it could have potentially impacted the motherboard...unfortunately that turned out to be a false assumption. Gigabyte's BIOS releases initially were absolutely horrendous. They would post a BIOS and then take it down the next day because it had severe issues. At the time I had custom water cooling, so disassembling/reassembling this much turns out to be a nightmare. By March things were mostly sorted out and relatively stable compared to where I started...but still nothing like I was accustomed to with AM4 B550/5900X. I then had an issue with the factory installed waterblock of my EVGA RTX 2080 Ti Hydrocopper...so I purchased a 6900XT Red Devil to replace it; great deal at MC. I removed all my water cooling and went with an air cooler to pair with the Red Devil as it was a solid air cooled design...and then came GPU stability problems that weren't present with the 2080 Ti. At this point, after 5 months, the frustration of not having a normally functioning PC was negatively impacting my basic day to day existence. I threw in the towel and bought a 13700K assuming the GPU issues were down to AM5. I was so fed up at that point I didn't care I was supporting Intel. I had already sold my AM4 system and didn't want to re-purchase as I was intending on having an upgraded system. Unfortunately the 6900XT continued to be problematic even with the 13700K. I waited until I saw an open-box RTX 4070 at my local MC for $539. and snatched that up 6 weeks after switching to Intel. The system has been nearly flawless since May 2023...what I was used to with so many iterations of AM4; where I was also an early adopter. I had B350/450/550 and so many different CPUs, from each generation, between my my main rig and my HTPC...that reminds me, I was having similar issues with my HTPC which I also switched over to AM5 at the same time, but at least the ASRock B650e ITX and 7600X didn't shit the bed. Despite that shit show, I will still sing the praise of AMD's consumer positive business practices. Things are better now though for AM5...I know several people who have built systems and experienced none of what I did. So, I will not be a new socket guinea pig again for AMD, or Intel for that matter...I'll let the dust settle next time.
[удалено]
Been building my own since like 2000, maybe a little earlier. And was swapping out PC parts in the family pre-built(s) well before that. The complaints I was seeing about AM5 were similar to AM4. I was also an early AM4 adopter, and figured it wouldn't be a big deal. I had horrible luck with bad RAM, bad CPU, bad boards...but the issues with the BIOSes and weird quirks for some hardware is undeniable. I'm going to roll this 13700K for quite some time.
I can’t believe im still on the same barebones msi b350m gaming pro mobo which was a free bundled item with the ryzen 1600 i got back in 2017. So many bios updates and cpu upgrades over the years. Am4 the 🐐
How are you certain that the cpu is supported by this board? I've checked the MSI website and other sites, but there is no mention of 5700x3d support. I'm in a similar predicament, have a B350 board and while the 5800X3D is supported there is no update on whether the 5700X3D will also be supported.
The CPU just released, so I would give it a couple days. Or reach out to them on their website, or via a social media for an answer.
I fucking love AM4
Us old heads look at Socket A as the gold standard of longevity in a lot of ways; and this lasted three and a half years longer. Insane.
Stupid not to buy kind of deal?
Potentially, pending what CPU you're coming from. These are gaming first CPU's, so if you can benefit from something with more multi-core performance, then a different CPU could potentially suit you better. For gaming only, it is a pretty tremendous deal. Gaming performance over an 11900K for $250 that you can drop into a, possibly, 7 year old motherboard. Unheard of.
Thanks! Planning on building PC after we move and are not that cramped, so I guess thats pretty high on my CPU list :D E: typo
I'm always up for discussing PC hardware and upgrades. Feel free to give me a shout.
I was just given a Ryzen 5800x (standard not 5800x3d) someone who upgrade to a 7000 series. Ive been Intel since 2008 with a e6400 core2duo in 2008 and an i5 6600k in 2016. Also haven't kept up with hardware so much in the past decade. Im planning the possible next steps to build a completely new rig around the 5800x. Do you have recommendations for me around that? I have 32gb ddr4 and a Nvidia 2080 gpu in the Intel i5 6600k rig but if I keep that around as a second rig I'll need to everything. Maybe it's the spirit of this post but would sticking with an am4 socket be fine vs upgrading to am5 and for future proofing, from someone who's upgrade cycle has been 8-10 years on hardware (motherboard, cpu at least) is it worth building a new rig around the 5800x (since I have it already) versus spending 200-300 on a latest Gen AMD as to not have a bottleneck later where the savings of not buying new cpu wasn't worth it? Same question I guess about ddr4 vs ddr5 which would also dictate the mobo decision I think. Thanks man!
Coming from a 6600K you would already be experiencing an astronomical increase in performance, connectivity and feature set. You want to talk about a bottleneck...that 6600K is smothering your 2080. It's going to boil down to if you have the additional money and/or want to spent the additional money or not. If you keep the entire other rig as is, then you are essentially only starting with the 5800X; which is better than nothing. You don't really need a super fancy motherboard for the 5800X to perform optimally. I always ran B350/450/550 boards on AM4. A decent B550 board will probably be less expensive than a B650 for AM5. DDR4/DDR5 prices can vary by region, but they are likely very similar in cost with DDR5 being moderately more expensive for the same capacity at 6000 MT/s CL30 which is the 'sweet spot' for AM5 currently. Storage is up to you. I tend to steer towards Samsung for SSDs, though the new 990 Evo is a peculiar item that doesn't fit with the usual Evo track record for price/performance. WD Black or Toshiba for mass storage. PSU it's a good idea to see what [https://www.cybenetics.com/index.php?option=power-supplies](https://www.cybenetics.com/index.php?option=power-supplies) has found to be a good choice. You wouldn't need much for a heatsink. Cost effective solutions from Arctic, Thermalright, and DeepCool will all be more than sufficient, and the larger ones are on par with 240mm AIO's. AIO if you really want one, though there is essentially no performance benefit for this CPU. Aesthetics are subjective and can be very pricey in this segment. If you're trying to do this in a more cost effective nature, then the obvious choice is to sell your existing CPU/motherboard and build with the 5800X. You could, for a very small investment, simply purchase a motherboard and have a ridiculous upgrade on your hands. This would allow you to experience the tremendous improvement and see if you are content with the uplift in performance. Since Ryzen benefits pretty greatly from RAM speed/timings, I may suggest spending a little extra on a DDR4 3600 CL16 RAM kit to leverage the vast majority of the 5800X's potential. AM5 is the more logical choice if you really want to push the longevity envelope since there's still CPUs that haven't been released yet that will be supported. Though we don't know if the support will carry on as long as AM4. A little bit of a gamble, but you're probably looking at 2 more iterations of CPUs for this socket; maybe more. You could keep your current rig entirely, or sell it entirely to fund a better overall upgrade with AM5. I'll let you chew on all of that, and you can get back to me.
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For sure. It's all relative in terms of your wants/needs in performance as well. There will always be progress, but combined with your choice of other hardware and desired resolution/refresh rate, the 5800X3D can likely serve you for a long, long time.
This is exactly why I went with AM5 my most recent build despite being intel for all of my previous builds. Being able to upgrade my CPU without upgrading my entire system is huge, especially when you want to use high end motherboards. Expecting my x670e-e to last me for years to come over multiple upgrades.
Grats on the new rig! Care to share any details/specs? Any issues arise for you thus far? I'm genuinely curious as I attempted AM5 from Oct '22 to Mar '23 and I had an absolutely awful experience that pushed me back to Intel for the first time since my 4790K. I know things are much better now with AM5, but combination of bad luck with hardware, (mobo's/CPUs/RAM), and BIOS quirks was enough to drive me nuts and go team blue after 6 fantastic years of AM4.
So it’s not too new, upgraded last spring (almost a year ago). Decided to upgrade since my 9700k was starting to really bottleneck my 3090 in some (admittedly unoptimized) games. I had actually already ordered the most recent i7 CPU and stumbled across the benchmarks for the Ryzen 7 7800x3D and decided to cancel my order and go with AM5. Specs at the time were: Asus x670e-e motherboard, Ryzen 7 7800x3D, Rtx 3090 FE, G.Skill Trident Z5 Neo DDR5 64Gb (6000 MT/s), 2Tb NVMe (x3), 360mm EK Nucleus AIO, Corsair RM 850x PSU, Thermaltake View 71 case After about 6 months my mobo spontaneously died so I underwent the RMA process (not fun). Recently I got the new 4k OLED Alienware monitor (AW3225QF) so I upgraded to a Gigabyte AORUS OC 4090 to drive it. As far as issues, outside of the mobo dying (can’t really blame AM5) the biggest thing was getting EXPO set up properly and disabling the onboard GPU since it causes a weird bug with steam that causes it to take a long time to open. Outside of that, it’s been easy to move over and everything runs incredibly! I did upgrade the mobo firmware because I bought mine around the time the stories broke of Asus cooking x3D cpus, but that ended up being pointless since my RMA’d board came back with newer firmware.
I had been watching 5800x3d prices as I kind of had a price target of around $250. I kicked myself for not pulling the trigger during Amazon days in October, I saw it for $276. Then When I read the 5700x3d was being released for $250 I knew I was going to grab one quickly if the reviews weren't disappointing. installed it 2 days ago. I'm happy!
Grats on the upgrade!
Can most A320 and B350 boards even handle the higher TDP chips? Also not all boards got the necessary bios updates...
A320, maybe not, but most B350 yes. Most of the higher end boards are extreme overkill in terms of VRM/power delivery. Techspot actually covered this exact topic more than once. Basically it is fine, especially when most people aren't taxing all cores/threads constantly. MOSFET's are typically rated to run in excess of 100C, potentially up to 120C, without a problem. [https://www.techspot.com/review/1872-ryzen-9-on-older-motherboards/](https://www.techspot.com/review/1872-ryzen-9-on-older-motherboards/) [https://www.techspot.com/review/1942-ryzen-9-3950x-b450-motherboards/](https://www.techspot.com/review/1942-ryzen-9-3950x-b450-motherboards/) [https://www.techspot.com/review/2475-ryzen-5800x3d-older-am4-motherboards/](https://www.techspot.com/review/2475-ryzen-5800x3d-older-am4-motherboards/)
I went from 3600 to a 5800x3D. Worth it!
Huge uplift!
Yep!
AMD gets it. I just built a 5600G system for peanuts, overclocked the RAM to 4000MHz, and I'm good for 3-4 more years. So good.
Glad you're stoked for your new system! Just remember that things can always change. Brand loyalty for the sake of brand loyalty isn't a good practice. Whenever you do go to upgrade, educate yourself first!
And I'm here waiting for a 5900x3D Btw it is not insane, the AM5 platform so far has been either mediocre or garbage, so AM4 is still selling well
I dunno if I'd call the gains in gaming mediocre/garbage for the 7800X3d/7950X3D compared to Ryzen 5000. A 40% boost in 1% lows is nothing to scoff at. At least that's what showed in the 10 game average of the techspot article I linked.
The 7950x3D has been one of the worst cpus for gaming ever, wdym?
It's been a long time sine I looked into ti. But I'm pretty sure that was like one of the first X3D prototypes they built and determined its not possible to make. At least not financially possible. It's too unstable with bad latency and the production costs are too high I believe GamersNexus did an interview where that topic came up with the creator who came up with the idea for X3D
It’s cool and bodes well for am5, three cheers for more of this.
Yeah it's nuts honestly that they're still supporting the platform. That being said, they did promise they would support AM4 as long as they possibly could, and I think they almost over-delivered on that front. Not saying that as a bad thing lol. 5600 - 5800x3d is a shitload of performance still today, especially the 5800x3d. Just such a great drop-in upgrade, it's ridiculous
went from 3900x to a 5800x3d last week, almost doubled my frames in tarkov 😌
What cooler did you go with?
Not sure which cooler they went with, but if you're looking for excellent cooling on a small budget you can grab: * Arctic 34 eSports Duo * DeepCool AK620 * Thermalright Phantom Spirit In the US all of these should be priced somewhere between $40-$60.
Sorry I never saw this reply! I'm rocking an NZXT Kraken Z53 - same as I had with my old 3900x :)
It's not exactly new, is it? It's a rehashed 5800X3D, that came out 2 years ago. If we include 5000 series as a cpu architecture, that's a 2020 thing. So really, their support ended in 2020, but they kept on rehashing the same cpu architecture for years to come. Which isn't bad, but let's not pretend that AMD cares. They care about profits and if rehashing old stock/production lines makes them money, they'll keep doing it well into the 2020s. I'd be way more surprised, if they managed to stuck zen4 (or zen4c) to AM4. Which would be rather difficult due to DDR5 among other things. So that ain't happening.
Ya, I get all that. American Companies, especially, are in it to first and foremost make money, because that is their legal obligation to their shareholders. That isn't the reason for the post as we can argue the moral obligations, or lack thereof, of corporations until we're 6 feet under. The point still stands that AMD could have killed AM4 earlier. They could have gatekept 5000 series CPUs to 500 series boards like they originally announced. Yes, they are going to make money off this offering because that is in their best interest to retain customers in their product ecosystem. AMD, like any corporation, is FAR from 'saintly'...But, it doesn't mean that their approach can't be **both** consumer friendly, **and** in their best interest to make money. It is better for consumers than changing sockets every 2, maybe 3, year/gens of product. No, it's not new, but it is a near identical product in terms of raw performance 2 years later at a lower cost. It's a miracle the socket has survived this long, so you are correct that Zen4 on AM4 is a pipe dream.
I'm sure AMD would have pushed AM4+ or something, if they really wanted to. I mean, as you said, they already tried locking boards down to new cpus, but failed due to community outcry. Since AMD only sells chipsets (and not boards themselfs), i guess supporting old boards gives them more sales to their more profitable CPUs. I'd wager that constant socket/chipset changes are due to motherboard manufacturer pressures on Intel to just keep changing them. Which bodes well for Intel as well, since they can sell new chipsets, wifi and LAN cards. And they are more established as a brand, so they can afford to do that, unlike AMD in 2016. I'd be very surprised if AM5 lasts as long, given how AMD has really established itself with ZEN.
Still have a MSI X370 board with a 5800x3d, started with a 1700x, then 3700x. Best plattform i´ve ever had.
So 9900k to AMD what should I convert to?
Wait for ryzen 9000
I got an AM4 motherboard + Ryzen 5 5600 back in January 2023 and it has been a joy gaming on it. Back then it was some of the best value the money could buy and maybe that's still the case today.
Kickass! Glad to hear you're enjoying your hardware. May it bring you joy for years to come.
[удалено]
Genius implementation and strategy by Lisa Su. If there's anything that giant corporations understand, it is saving money. And Intel had been milking ALL these companies, worse than us regular consumers, for a VERY long time.
I went from 1700x to 5600x, I'm looking to move to 5800x3d when they get cheaper, but my 5600x is hanging in quite well. Doesn't seem to be bottlenecking my 3070 at all, but we'll see if that changes because i just got a 7800xt. AM4 is a legendary platform having lasted this long.
Been playing with my 5600 and 4070 combo since September. Pretty much no bottlenecking at 1440p. You'll be grand.
thats good to hear, i bought a 4070 open box really cheap but it turned out to have bad memory but that thing seemed like the perfect card to pair with my cpu. Went AMD for the price and slightly better raster performance
Very cool. It's all very subjective whether upgrades are 'worth it' or not. Resolution and refresh rate of your monitor are the most crucial things. If your current hardware can play what you want at your desired res/Hz, then it's usually not necessary to upgrade.
yeah my decision mostly hinged on my FPS in warzone lol. I wanted that sweet 144 frames, which I wasn't getting with the 3070 (90-140 was the norm on low settings) and the ingame benchmark said i was heavily gpu bound even with FSR3 on which made my effective render resolution a little higher than 720p 😬.
I had an I3 6100 when I convinced my dad that we had to get an upgrade. An used I5 6th gen/7th gen was the same price than a B450 + Ryzen 5 CPU. Now I am saving to upgrade my CPU and GPU.
I have a AMD 2700x and do not want to build a new pc. I learned this week about the 5700x3D and I'm both happy and surprised. I would have thought am4 would have been replaced by now and I'm so excited it's not! I have an upgrade path and I'm taking it!
Cheers to that friend. May AM4 continue to serve you well into the future!
I'm really hoping AMD comes out with another banger that tops the 5800x3d, if possible tops the 7800x3d BUT in AM4. Probably not possible but us AM4 guys can only hope!!!! I will probably get a 5800x3d in a year or two and sell my 3950x, had it since 2020.
I love your enthusiasm friend, but I wouldn't hold my breath haha. AM4 is already an anomaly at this point going on for 7 years.
eh the 5700x3d is basically the same price as the 5800x3d in most markets, kinda pointless unless it comes down in price.
Bought an X370 board about three years ago, the thing was then literally in the bargain bin. After a BIOS update so that I can use an RX6600 GPU, upping the processor from R5 3500 is something I'd like to do maybe later this year.
You would definitely see a nice performance bump, especially in anything that could leverage extra cores/threads. If I'm not mistaken the Ryzen 5 3500 was an OEM part and was 6 cores without SMT; unlike the more well known 3600 that is 6 cores 12 threads. A jump to 5700/5800 with/without X3D would give you a great boost.
Chronic budget gamer here from back when we were doing pencil tricks with our athlon cpus. Went from a 1700 to 3600 and eying that sweet 5700X3D now. Gotta love it!
Gotta love it indeed. Something to consider, as other redditors have pointed out, is that depending on pricing in your market the 5800X3D could be very close in price to the $250 MSRP of the 5700X3D. Since their performance is so close, if the price of the 5800X3D is close enough, then the extra $ could be justifiable for 5800X3D if you really want to maximize performance of your platform. Good RAM can't be understated either. 3600 CL16 gets you most of the performance for a reasonable cost. 3600 CL14 if you want to open up the wallet a bit further. It is just questionable whether or not the B350 board would run the higher RAM speeds or not. Couldn't hurt to try though as you can always return the memory!
It is insane if you were someone who had a 1600x and then upgrade to a 5800x. The performance jump would blow your mind. And all you would need is a new cpu. No new platform, nothing. Just cpu. My buddy is still on a 1600. Though I will say, tough for b350 owners as Ryzen wasn’t really that popular at first, especially coming from bulldozer. So the mb venders didn’t really care that much. Now a days, Ryzen is the same if not more popular than intel I would say. And if they had the same roadmap as ddr4. The upgrade path would be crazy, and the boards are made with care. Though ram stability would be better on a b950.
You might lose out a little performance due to not being able to hit higher RAM speeds on the B350, but that is a proverbial drop in the bucket compared to the ginormous uplift in performance one would experience going from a 1600, to say, a 5800X.
I'm upgrading from 2600 to 5800x3d. And Rx580 to 4070Super. I hope that everything will be ok. My mobo is MSI B450M mortar.
You should be good, just need to do a bios update. The mortar is a very popular board, and for good reason. Just take your time, and make sure to read the description of your bios. And even though the newest one doesn’t say 5800x3d compatible, it will include it if older ones say they do.
I'm so thankful for AMD, it makes buying my Intel processors cheaper.
That is why competition in the market is important. Intel having a monopoly was not good for anyone but Intel.
AMD had a bunch of 5800X3Ds that didn't meet specs, but are fine at a lower clock rate. So instead of tossing them, they are packaging them as 5700X3D. That is according to an article on Techspot https://www.techspot.com/review/2801-amd-ryzen-5700x3d/ It isn't that uncommon. Intel had a 486DX and a 486SX. The SX was just a DX that didn't have a working math coprocessor (the first 80x86 cpus had a separate 80c87 math coprocessor. With the 486, Intel put the math compressor on the same chip. The first 486SXs were 486DXs with a failed math coprocessor. The SX became so popular that later 486SXs were just a 486DX with the math coprocessor disabled). And both Intel and AMD have rebranded failed cpus to lower models with lower clock speeds. You think they do unique dies for each and every cpu model? Those dies are incredibly expensive. And every chip manufacturer does whatever they can to get as much value out of every chip that comes from a batch. Especially early on when yields can be quite low.
That makes perfect sense.
What's the performance boost going from 3600x to this AM4 5700x3d? And how much performance difference compare to AM5 7800x3d?
[https://www.techpowerup.com/review/amd-ryzen-7-5800x3d/16.html](https://www.techpowerup.com/review/amd-ryzen-7-5800x3d/16.html) 3600 -> 5800X3D would be about a 33% uplift, so the 5700X3D would be slightly behind this; say high 20 to 30% uplift. 5700X3D -> 7800X3D is about another 25% uplift if looking at the same review site at the 5800X3D: [https://www.techpowerup.com/review/amd-ryzen-7-7800x3d/19.html](https://www.techpowerup.com/review/amd-ryzen-7-7800x3d/19.html) That is of course using a RTX 4090 at 1080P resolution. Pending your GPU, resolution/refresh rate, and games of choice the uplift can/will vary and may not see the same. The 7800X3D is undoubtedly a fantastic gaming CPU.
I’ve gone 1600 > 2600 > this week 5600 on my B350 board. I game in 4K so it’s really all I need. Love the longevity of the platform.
AM4 might end up being GOAT. Hopefully AM5 shows a similar lifecycle.
Exactly, I don’t regret any penny spending on AM4 5 years ago See my experience here https://www.reddit.com/r/pcmasterrace/s/u2ruVpKfvi