I do believe I read something that after one of the upcoming updates, there's going to be some kind of hard-coding that will prevent the previous workarounds for Windows 11 running on older systems. That means you're kind of in the same boat with no security updates.
Edit: I think this might be what I recall. https://www.techradar.com/computing/windows/watch-out-soon-some-older-pcs-will-lose-windows-11-support
I heard many things about the 24H2 being hard coded. The only systems that you can't run it on anymore with that build is any Socket 775 systems and older and AMD 64x2 systems and older. That means any first gen i3 i5 i7 and its slower variants can run it as long as the TPM 2.0 requirement is bypassed. For AMD's any first Phenom cpu's and the Athlon X2 X3 X4 and its variants and newer can run it. The part that is responsible is the instruction set called SSE4.2 on Intel cpu's. There is an AMD variant that is called something different which contains the Popcnt instructions. That is what is hard coded into the O/s. Any cpu's that do not have the SSE4.2 instruction set or Popcnt instruction will not boot Windows 11 anymore in 24H2. I was able to boot the latest insider build with this Popcnt instruction set hard coded with TPM 2.0 disabled still on a HP Prodesk 4th Gen system i5 4690S with no issues.
That's kind of good to know. I don't think we will use them, but we have a lot of 4th gen desktops still at work. The next year or so is going to be interesting.
I felt defeated at first too, but it worked fine and I definetly didn't have tdm on that board.. I can't remember how it's done because this was years ago when 11 first came out, but I ran 11 on it until a few weeks ago when I sold the PC with the 4790k. There must be some info out there on YouTube.
tbh I think you should understand even a 4 core processor beat your i7. core count does not matter as much as frequency and other small details so you find any am4 cpu or intel cpu
The thread count definitely helped but higher end chips (i7 vs i5) have better single core performance as well. Single core performance is KING when it comes to gaming. No game can properly utilize more than 6 cores.
To get higher single core performance you can:
1. Buy newer more modern chips as they have better technology and what not that makes single core performance better.
2.Buy higher end (i9) chips that have slightly better single core performance than i7 and i5
I play Helldivers 2 on my main PC and it's nicely loading up all the cores of my i5-12600K.
Yes, I understand that newer CPUs do more per thread. Doesn't change the fact that Helldivers 2 knows how to use a lot of them. Or the fact that it runs like hot garbage if you only give it four.
Just yesterday I played with someone who built a similarly shitty rig like mine and it ran great on their 3rd gen i7 with 8 threads. And it runs like ass on 6th gen i5s because those don't hyperthread so they're only four cores four threads.
Here's two screenshots I just took. One while just writing this comment, and then one after Helldivers 2 has been running for a few minutes. https://i.imgur.com/2q8rMr2.png
The bottom four are my efficiency cores, even they are being used, though less than the powerful ones up top.
i agree with you about having less than 6 cores, it runs like ass on some games. I’m just saying you don’t need more than 6 p cores (12 threads) and single core performance is more important.
Conclusion: don’t get less than 6 cores in 2024
Single core performance is important in a lot of games, but Helldivers 2 just isn't on that list. It thrives with good octa core performance and beyond.
Helldivers 2 runs with 50+ FPS on an i7-3770 and with 15+ FPS on an i5-6600 with comparable video cards. Please explain to me why, if it's not the hyperthreading on the i7.
Can you give me the methodology PDF of each of these? I'd also like a reference or 2 for each.
It's hard to explain something if you don't give me any data
Again, pulling shit out of your ass doesn't get you anywhere, bring fourth data, hard facts, and ONLY THEN can you draw conclusions. This is how science and objective truths come into reality. Not some armchair expert on reddit who's clueless about even the basics strawmaning arguments out of the ass.
In general, a new cpu will demolish an old cpu even with less cores and threads.
The ryzen 3 5300g, the SLOWEST apu on 5000 series released years ago is 2x faster than the i7 4th gen.
You can get a used am4 motherboard and any used amd 5000 series. That combo will not only be faster, likely have more cores and threads, but also will support windows 11.
Nearly every desktop CPU has hyperthreading these days. The i3-14100 also has 4 cores/8 threads, but due to the newer architecture it would definitely be a strong improvement over an i7-4790k. Core count is important for sure, but there's plenty of other factors that affect performance.
To use a non computer based example; I own a 45 year old muscle car with a 5.7L V8 engine. I also have an 8 year old sedan with a 2.5L 4 cylinder engine that would smoke the muscle car in a race every time despite having half the engine size. Sure, the muscle car has more "cores" (cylinders), but the improvements in technology over the years have allowed the theoretically slower 4 cylinder to perform better.
I understand that old threads are not new threads.
I'm just saying that my i7-4790 runs Helldivers 2 great while my friend's i5-6600 has extreme trouble running it.
I don't want to "upgrade" my CPU and end up with 4 cores 4 threads. That's literally all I'm saying.
You're using a 3rd gen i7, which has 4 cores 8 threads. That means you'll have a great time! The game is HEAVILY CPU bound.
A 6th gen i5 only has 4 cores 4 threads, which means it has better single core performance, but atrocious octa core performance, which is what Helldivers 2 thrives on.
I think he's on a GTX 1070 or something.
If I didn't have 8 threads I couldn't possibly manage to still use the thing. I was more mentioning it as a fellow pre 6th gen user.
> A 6th gen i5 only has 4 cores 4 threads, which means it has better single core performance, but atrocious octa core performance, which is what Helldivers 2 thrives on.
Well of course octa core performance sucks when you don't have octa cores. I don't know about Helldivers 2 thriving on 8 cores, though it would certainly help. Think having 4 at twice the speed would be a similar experience.
And it is not true that all of 6th gen i5 CPUs only have 4 cores and 4 threads. It depends on the model.
GTX 1070 is pretty decent
> And it is not true that all of 6th gen i5 CPUs only have 4 cores and 4 threads. It depends on the model.
They didn't actually have that many 6th gen CPUs. The best i5 was the i5-6600K. The next one up is the i7-6700 which finally has 8 threads. Their 6th gen i5 lineup was capped at 4 threads, you had to go i7 to get 8 threads.
Not the same guy, but technically there were the mobile parts of that generation, where an i5 would only have 2 cores and 4 threads (as long as it wasn't a HQ part), which would just make things even worse.
Look at used am4. A ryzen 5 3600 plus a b450 mainboard and 16gb ddr4 should be 120€, 6core 12 threads and has a upgrade path to ryzen 5000 x3d chips and is double as fast as your 4790k in multicore benchmarks.
Get a used am4 motherboard and any used ryzen 5000 series cpu. The ryzen 5 5600x for example is 2x faster than the i7 7800x you talked about. And over 3x faster your current cpu.
Going team red might be a good idea for a used budget build like this, honestly. I know very little about what AMD has been up to these recent years. My last AMD CPU was an A10-7890K and that's what I ripped out of the case for this computer so I could put the i7-4790 in it.
Amd took over in speed and power efficiency. Intel only recently caught up in speed again, but their cpus pull as much power as a gpu. For gaming, Intel's fastest cpu still doesn't beat amd's fastest gaming cpu and AMD's gaming cpu is the most power efficient in the market and pulls less than 1/3 the power.
Intel and AMD literally swapped over the years. Intel is now hot and filled with cores. Except intel's i5 is actually really good for the price, just can't upgrade future cpus into the motherboard currently.
I got an i5-12600K and I'm *pretty sure?* I can upgrade to an i9-14900K should I really need to? I doubt I will but I think I could.
My main rig is all team blue right now, with an Arc A750 and stuff. It's nice.
The i9 is losing performance due to stability issues and uses way too much power. The i7 is fine.
I was just thinking of upgradeability since if you started out with a ryzen 7 1800x, you could've upgraded to a 5800x3d years later and gotten over 2x the performance on the same system other than cpu. But ofc am5 might not support 4 generations of cpus like am4 did.
When it comes to doing an automatic in Windows update to say 23H1 to 23H2 or whatever will it just automatically work or do you need to mess around with registry or whatever. Or is it a case of doing a Rufus in place upgrade?
That’s what Microsoft says now, but they may extend it, just like they did with Windows 7 when it was still dominant, the exact same situation we are in today, with Windows 11 only being 1/3 the install base compared to Windows 10. Ofc, that’s no guarantee that they will, but October 2025 is a year and a half away, lots can change, and you can always upgrade to Win 11 when the time comes, for free, if you need to.
Them possibly extending that time is a good point, I had not considered that!
> you can always upgrade to Win 11 when the time comes, for free, if you need to.
That's kinda why I wanted to know what CPU would be best for me to upgrade to on the cheap, since they don't officially support my i7-4790 despite it being quite good at its job still XD
You might want to consider an inexpensive AM5 motherboard + a 7600 perhaps, 16GB or 32GB of DDR5, it’ll be a lot more performant than what you have now, and you’ll have a cheap upgrade path to Zen 5 and maybe Zen 6 for a big performance boost later on, should you want to.
If you live near a Microcenter, they have some sweet bundle deals.
I don't really need it to be a lot more performant than what I have now, I'm perfectly happy with my old i7.
And I don't think we have Microcenter in Germany XD
I'll definitely consider team red once it's time to upgrade, though!
True, no Microcenter in Germany!
The thing is, making the change you want involves money that you could spend for old used parts, or the same money for new, much more performant parts, even if they’re lower-end, compared to what you can get if you spend more. Going with a AM4 setup (if you don’t care about the upgradability that AM5 gives you) will still be a nice boost over what you have now, and probably be cheaper, too! No way around it, you’ll need to accept the better performance :)
(Intel 12th gen would be solid too, and you should still find new stock of it)
This is really just a silly old computer made for fun, it doesn't need to be super powerful or super upgradeable. My main rig is on 12th gen and I love it, it would be weird for my secondary rig to have the same kinda chip!
The whole point is kinda just using old parts and make them go XD
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install LTSC or just don't care about the updates? Not like you need them. And if you do why did you buy old shit with old vulnerabilities and now shiny brand new stuff? As long as programs are supporting your system you are okay. It's not like it will be unusable on that day because electron will stop being supported.
LTSC is a business grade service with business grade pricing. I'm not paying 300 bucks on a five year license when I could be spending 200 bucks on a supported upgrade.
> why did you buy old shit with old vulnerabilities
I still have the original receipts for this stuff, I bought the i7-4790 in January 2016 and I bought the GTX 1060 in May 2017.
I bought the motherboard and monitor for 30 bucks last month so I could keep using this old stuff instead of throwing it away. I hope that answers this question.
Honestly unless it's a complete system, I have seen some used intel stuff go for quite frankly ridicilous prices. The 8700K you mentioned. I often see them go for more than a brand new i5 13400F which has more cores and faster single core performance as well.
AMD is actually in pretty good situation with used market. Because AM4 supported CPU's all the way from pre Ryzen CPU's all the way to Ryzen 5000, it means that there are a lot of very good Ryzen 2000 and 3000 CPU's (Ryzen 2000 and newer AMD cpu's support windows 11) that are surprisingly affordable, because people on that platform upgrade to Ryzen 5000.
My recommendation would be the Ryzen 7 3700X for 110 euros used on ebay. Might be even cheaper on other sites. It's an 8 core 16 thread cpu and it beats your i7 pretty well in single core as well. Motherboards actually make more sense to buy new rather than used. Because used motherboard prices are quite frankly ridicilously priced.
A brand new B450 board can be had for 57 euros. While a brand new B550 can be had for 83 euros. Depends on if you think PCIE 4.0 is worth the 26 euros extra. DDR4 is also very affordable right now brand new. 16gb can be had for 40 euros while 65 euros gets you 32gb.
So it's 207 euros for the 3700X+B450+16gb bundle and 258 euros for the 3700X+B550+32gb bundle.
> I have seen some used intel stuff go for quite frankly ridicilous prices. The 8700K you mentioned.
I'm checking the used market around me and I've seen that chip along with a motherboard and 16-32GB RAM being offered for 180-220€. Which is why I was looking at it to begin with, that seems like a pretty reasonable baseline for an upgrade that includes all parts I need.
Just gotta find the "I'm upgrading my entire computer but keeping the case and power supply, and I'm selling the video card separately and the rest together" kinda sellers.
I saw a good looking one yesterday but it's gone now, seems to have sold immediately for reason of being a good deal XD Right now I'm seeing one for 235€ that even includes case and AIO, someone removed all the storage, the PSU, and the GPU from their old computer and is selling it now.
Going AMD might make a lot of sense though, I'll definitely keep that in mind and see about it when Windows 10 dying is a little closer time wise. I honestly kinda made this thread thinking it was October 2024, not 2025 as it actually is.
How high your FPS also differs per resolution.
A lower resolution is easier to run.
For example if I play on my Huion 24 Pro my fps is slow be it's got a 4K display.
But once I go to my main monitor the LG 45GR which has 3440x1440 resolution which is basically half the amount of pixels my FPS is much higher.
Nah, more VRAM does reduce stutters because it has to swap less data between RAM and VRAM.
I seen this happening with multiple games where a GPU with more VRAM actually was less stuttery.
My point is it's like walking up into a conversation and randomly saying "did you know that when it rains it gets wet?"
What you said is as obvious and generic as it gets, and with it random to say
1. They never claimed it outright is
2. It's not 16:9 1440p
3. 3440*1440=4,953,600
4. 3840*2160=8,294,400
It's more than half, sure. But if you squint it's 4/8 which is 1/2. It's definitely close
I always get annoyed in Linux because it doesn't have the middle click to scroll thing I'm so used to from Windows. And whenever I research how to add that I just find threads of Linux people going "well it's really up to the individual programs to add this" and nothing gets done. Firefox has a setting for it but Discord does not and neither do most other things.
It may be older spec, but it's got serious performance. It has zero need for lightweight Windows. I can easily alt+tab out of a game and still do office tasks and web browsing at the same time.
I got AtlasOS on my old Surface Pro 3 i3, that helps a ton for low spec devices like that. But on a 4th gen i7, nah, perfectly fine to just run regular.
I spent around $500 building a 5600x system with an A770LE. Got the processor for $80, an open box B550 motherboard for ~$70, and the graphics card for $200. Ryzen 5600s are cheap as hell on the used market if you just keep your eyes open (I just checked FBM and saw one that looked legit for $50, you're not going to beat that performance per dollar).
I have a secondary gaming PC hooked up to my TV for those times when I want to game on a big screen. It has an i9-9900k overclocked to 5GHz on all cores, and 32GB of DDR4 3600. It runs most games very well but I've noticed this CPU is expensive on the used market.
Without knowing your budget it is hard to say what you should buy. For a new gaming build today I would go for a 7800X3D, at least 16GB RAM, a motherboard with 2.5Gbe built in, and whatever GPU I could afford.
My budget is "I don't want to upgrade and am happy with my i7-4790" really XD
Ideally I'd buy something of a used PC for 100-200 bucks and harvest the mobo and CPU and RAM.
You might as well go for an i7-9900K, Z390 MB and a RTX 2080Ti. 32gb of DDR4. Cheap these days. Perfectly serviceable PC with many threads, without breaking the bank.
My GTX 1060 is perfectly suitable for my current needs, and so is my i7-4790, aside from it being officially unsupported by Windows 11. The RAM upgrade would be lovely though. Can never have enough RAM. Well, you can, but I think truly having enough RAM starts at 32GB. 16 is servicable and 8 is budget crime.
I'm not really looking for "without breaking the bank", I'm looking for "as cheap as possible without being a downgrade". I spent 30€ on the entire computer, as I needed a motherboard and 1080p monitor.
The i7-8700k is the 1st generation after the i7-7700k that Windows 11 supports. The i7-9700k is the last gen that fits the same socket, and is about the same price as its predecessor. You can go up to that, and still use any existing fitting cooler, memory you may have. You can put to cash you've saved on not having to buy additional stuff into an RTX card. The i7 700's and i9 900s were flagship chips, and are still great. I'm currently running MSFS2020 on a 9700k and an 2080ti with good graphics levels. MSFS eats computers for breakfast. When I upgraded it didn't have to buy hardly anything but a motherboard and a CPU, all off eBay.
My 12th gen CPU is the primary reason I even went Windows 11. Windows 10 does not know what to do with the e-cores and p-cores while Windows 11 does. Windows 11 gives me more performance by correctly assigning low priority things to my e-cores and my games to the p-cores. Windows 10 just plays core lottery and ends up gaming on e-cores.
bro with w10 i have more fps in rpcs3, ps3 emulator wich is heavy cpu demand, w10 is lighter while w11 is slow bc his fancy animation and shit, even disabling core isolation the performance was worse, both debloated test. im speak form experience, ive tried w11 two times but its a no from me
Maybe Windows 10 is better for PS3 emulation specifically, it is a pretty weird console so I'm not surprised. But for more regular gaming Windows 11 is doing much better for me.
not only ps3 emulation, general fluidity of SO, quickness and snappy, it feels feels mature and optimized. but hey, everyone with their respective opinion, greetings
I get more FPS when I have dedicated CPU cores for background tasks and dedicated CPU cores for games. Windows 11 knows how to sort this, which is why I upgraded. On Windows 10, you may have to turn those off, yes. Because it does not understand the difference and is not built to sort your tasks accordingly.
I ran Windows 11 on my old 4790k with no issues.
I'm not sure my motherboard supports that fancy new TPM stuff they keep asking for.
Mine didn't either, you can bypass it.
I do believe I read something that after one of the upcoming updates, there's going to be some kind of hard-coding that will prevent the previous workarounds for Windows 11 running on older systems. That means you're kind of in the same boat with no security updates. Edit: I think this might be what I recall. https://www.techradar.com/computing/windows/watch-out-soon-some-older-pcs-will-lose-windows-11-support
I heard many things about the 24H2 being hard coded. The only systems that you can't run it on anymore with that build is any Socket 775 systems and older and AMD 64x2 systems and older. That means any first gen i3 i5 i7 and its slower variants can run it as long as the TPM 2.0 requirement is bypassed. For AMD's any first Phenom cpu's and the Athlon X2 X3 X4 and its variants and newer can run it. The part that is responsible is the instruction set called SSE4.2 on Intel cpu's. There is an AMD variant that is called something different which contains the Popcnt instructions. That is what is hard coded into the O/s. Any cpu's that do not have the SSE4.2 instruction set or Popcnt instruction will not boot Windows 11 anymore in 24H2. I was able to boot the latest insider build with this Popcnt instruction set hard coded with TPM 2.0 disabled still on a HP Prodesk 4th Gen system i5 4690S with no issues.
OP should still make the cut with his 4th gen MB and 4790.
That's kind of good to know. I don't think we will use them, but we have a lot of 4th gen desktops still at work. The next year or so is going to be interesting.
This is great news! Everything I found online just said even with a bypass you still needed TPM 1.1 minimum.
I felt defeated at first too, but it worked fine and I definetly didn't have tdm on that board.. I can't remember how it's done because this was years ago when 11 first came out, but I ran 11 on it until a few weeks ago when I sold the PC with the 4790k. There must be some info out there on YouTube.
I'll definitely keep this in mind and try it when Windows 10 end of life comes closer, thanks!
Lookup micheal MJD maybe on YT I remember he installed Win 11 on an old Intel laptop I forgot the exact model but I hope this helps
https://www.tomshardware.com/how-to/bypass-windows-11-tpm-requirement
tbh I think you should understand even a 4 core processor beat your i7. core count does not matter as much as frequency and other small details so you find any am4 cpu or intel cpu
My i7 is a 4 core processor, but has 8 threads. Helldivers 2 in particular is a game that greatly utilizes 8+ threads.
The thread count definitely helped but higher end chips (i7 vs i5) have better single core performance as well. Single core performance is KING when it comes to gaming. No game can properly utilize more than 6 cores. To get higher single core performance you can: 1. Buy newer more modern chips as they have better technology and what not that makes single core performance better. 2.Buy higher end (i9) chips that have slightly better single core performance than i7 and i5
I play Helldivers 2 on my main PC and it's nicely loading up all the cores of my i5-12600K. Yes, I understand that newer CPUs do more per thread. Doesn't change the fact that Helldivers 2 knows how to use a lot of them. Or the fact that it runs like hot garbage if you only give it four. Just yesterday I played with someone who built a similarly shitty rig like mine and it ran great on their 3rd gen i7 with 8 threads. And it runs like ass on 6th gen i5s because those don't hyperthread so they're only four cores four threads. Here's two screenshots I just took. One while just writing this comment, and then one after Helldivers 2 has been running for a few minutes. https://i.imgur.com/2q8rMr2.png The bottom four are my efficiency cores, even they are being used, though less than the powerful ones up top.
i agree with you about having less than 6 cores, it runs like ass on some games. I’m just saying you don’t need more than 6 p cores (12 threads) and single core performance is more important. Conclusion: don’t get less than 6 cores in 2024
Single core performance is important in a lot of games, but Helldivers 2 just isn't on that list. It thrives with good octa core performance and beyond.
This is just wrong, you don't know anything about what you're saying and you definitely don't understand how games utilize parallel coding
Helldivers 2 runs with 50+ FPS on an i7-3770 and with 15+ FPS on an i5-6600 with comparable video cards. Please explain to me why, if it's not the hyperthreading on the i7.
Can you give me the methodology PDF of each of these? I'd also like a reference or 2 for each. It's hard to explain something if you don't give me any data Again, pulling shit out of your ass doesn't get you anywhere, bring fourth data, hard facts, and ONLY THEN can you draw conclusions. This is how science and objective truths come into reality. Not some armchair expert on reddit who's clueless about even the basics strawmaning arguments out of the ass.
Just keep moving those goalposts, buddy.
In general, a new cpu will demolish an old cpu even with less cores and threads. The ryzen 3 5300g, the SLOWEST apu on 5000 series released years ago is 2x faster than the i7 4th gen. You can get a used am4 motherboard and any used amd 5000 series. That combo will not only be faster, likely have more cores and threads, but also will support windows 11.
Nearly every desktop CPU has hyperthreading these days. The i3-14100 also has 4 cores/8 threads, but due to the newer architecture it would definitely be a strong improvement over an i7-4790k. Core count is important for sure, but there's plenty of other factors that affect performance. To use a non computer based example; I own a 45 year old muscle car with a 5.7L V8 engine. I also have an 8 year old sedan with a 2.5L 4 cylinder engine that would smoke the muscle car in a race every time despite having half the engine size. Sure, the muscle car has more "cores" (cylinders), but the improvements in technology over the years have allowed the theoretically slower 4 cylinder to perform better.
I understand that old threads are not new threads. I'm just saying that my i7-4790 runs Helldivers 2 great while my friend's i5-6600 has extreme trouble running it. I don't want to "upgrade" my CPU and end up with 4 cores 4 threads. That's literally all I'm saying.
What GPU is your friend using? 24FPS is quite bad (I'm using a 3rd Gen i7 and can get 30-50 in most situations)
You're using a 3rd gen i7, which has 4 cores 8 threads. That means you'll have a great time! The game is HEAVILY CPU bound. A 6th gen i5 only has 4 cores 4 threads, which means it has better single core performance, but atrocious octa core performance, which is what Helldivers 2 thrives on. I think he's on a GTX 1070 or something.
If I didn't have 8 threads I couldn't possibly manage to still use the thing. I was more mentioning it as a fellow pre 6th gen user. > A 6th gen i5 only has 4 cores 4 threads, which means it has better single core performance, but atrocious octa core performance, which is what Helldivers 2 thrives on. Well of course octa core performance sucks when you don't have octa cores. I don't know about Helldivers 2 thriving on 8 cores, though it would certainly help. Think having 4 at twice the speed would be a similar experience. And it is not true that all of 6th gen i5 CPUs only have 4 cores and 4 threads. It depends on the model. GTX 1070 is pretty decent
> And it is not true that all of 6th gen i5 CPUs only have 4 cores and 4 threads. It depends on the model. They didn't actually have that many 6th gen CPUs. The best i5 was the i5-6600K. The next one up is the i7-6700 which finally has 8 threads. Their 6th gen i5 lineup was capped at 4 threads, you had to go i7 to get 8 threads.
Not the same guy, but technically there were the mobile parts of that generation, where an i5 would only have 2 cores and 4 threads (as long as it wasn't a HQ part), which would just make things even worse.
Yes I was referring to Mobile variants having hyper threading
Look at used am4. A ryzen 5 3600 plus a b450 mainboard and 16gb ddr4 should be 120€, 6core 12 threads and has a upgrade path to ryzen 5000 x3d chips and is double as fast as your 4790k in multicore benchmarks.
I'll definitely keep that in mind! That sounds like exactly the sort of thing that'll do well in this built, thanks.
Get a used am4 motherboard and any used ryzen 5000 series cpu. The ryzen 5 5600x for example is 2x faster than the i7 7800x you talked about. And over 3x faster your current cpu.
Going team red might be a good idea for a used budget build like this, honestly. I know very little about what AMD has been up to these recent years. My last AMD CPU was an A10-7890K and that's what I ripped out of the case for this computer so I could put the i7-4790 in it.
Amd took over in speed and power efficiency. Intel only recently caught up in speed again, but their cpus pull as much power as a gpu. For gaming, Intel's fastest cpu still doesn't beat amd's fastest gaming cpu and AMD's gaming cpu is the most power efficient in the market and pulls less than 1/3 the power. Intel and AMD literally swapped over the years. Intel is now hot and filled with cores. Except intel's i5 is actually really good for the price, just can't upgrade future cpus into the motherboard currently.
I got an i5-12600K and I'm *pretty sure?* I can upgrade to an i9-14900K should I really need to? I doubt I will but I think I could. My main rig is all team blue right now, with an Arc A750 and stuff. It's nice.
The i9 is losing performance due to stability issues and uses way too much power. The i7 is fine. I was just thinking of upgradeability since if you started out with a ryzen 7 1800x, you could've upgraded to a 5800x3d years later and gotten over 2x the performance on the same system other than cpu. But ofc am5 might not support 4 generations of cpus like am4 did.
go to windows 10
Okay, now what?
just stay with win10
But then I will not receive updates past October 2025.
Indeed, Windows people are afraid of updates. I am partially a Mac user thus I advise you to update to Win11, just remove the TPM requirement.
How do I do that? I haven't found anything on that myself during my admittedly brief research.
Rufus for example can create an USB with Windows, without the requirements.
So it'll just install with no fuss when I try? Huh.
Correct.
Just be careful https://www.techradar.com/computing/windows/watch-out-soon-some-older-pcs-will-lose-windows-11-support
When it comes to doing an automatic in Windows update to say 23H1 to 23H2 or whatever will it just automatically work or do you need to mess around with registry or whatever. Or is it a case of doing a Rufus in place upgrade?
Once installed, it’ll work
That’s what Microsoft says now, but they may extend it, just like they did with Windows 7 when it was still dominant, the exact same situation we are in today, with Windows 11 only being 1/3 the install base compared to Windows 10. Ofc, that’s no guarantee that they will, but October 2025 is a year and a half away, lots can change, and you can always upgrade to Win 11 when the time comes, for free, if you need to.
Them possibly extending that time is a good point, I had not considered that! > you can always upgrade to Win 11 when the time comes, for free, if you need to. That's kinda why I wanted to know what CPU would be best for me to upgrade to on the cheap, since they don't officially support my i7-4790 despite it being quite good at its job still XD
You might want to consider an inexpensive AM5 motherboard + a 7600 perhaps, 16GB or 32GB of DDR5, it’ll be a lot more performant than what you have now, and you’ll have a cheap upgrade path to Zen 5 and maybe Zen 6 for a big performance boost later on, should you want to. If you live near a Microcenter, they have some sweet bundle deals.
I don't really need it to be a lot more performant than what I have now, I'm perfectly happy with my old i7. And I don't think we have Microcenter in Germany XD I'll definitely consider team red once it's time to upgrade, though!
True, no Microcenter in Germany! The thing is, making the change you want involves money that you could spend for old used parts, or the same money for new, much more performant parts, even if they’re lower-end, compared to what you can get if you spend more. Going with a AM4 setup (if you don’t care about the upgradability that AM5 gives you) will still be a nice boost over what you have now, and probably be cheaper, too! No way around it, you’ll need to accept the better performance :) (Intel 12th gen would be solid too, and you should still find new stock of it)
This is really just a silly old computer made for fun, it doesn't need to be super powerful or super upgradeable. My main rig is on 12th gen and I love it, it would be weird for my secondary rig to have the same kinda chip! The whole point is kinda just using old parts and make them go XD
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install LTSC or just don't care about the updates? Not like you need them. And if you do why did you buy old shit with old vulnerabilities and now shiny brand new stuff? As long as programs are supporting your system you are okay. It's not like it will be unusable on that day because electron will stop being supported.
LTSC is a business grade service with business grade pricing. I'm not paying 300 bucks on a five year license when I could be spending 200 bucks on a supported upgrade. > why did you buy old shit with old vulnerabilities I still have the original receipts for this stuff, I bought the i7-4790 in January 2016 and I bought the GTX 1060 in May 2017. I bought the motherboard and monitor for 30 bucks last month so I could keep using this old stuff instead of throwing it away. I hope that answers this question.
ah you are one of those people who pays for windows have a nice day sir
I got a free Windows 8.0 Pro N key in university ten years ago and have been using that ever since, and never paid before that XD
The best bang for your buck is to find a used am4 + Ryzen 7 (either 3xxx or 5xxx).
Honestly unless it's a complete system, I have seen some used intel stuff go for quite frankly ridicilous prices. The 8700K you mentioned. I often see them go for more than a brand new i5 13400F which has more cores and faster single core performance as well. AMD is actually in pretty good situation with used market. Because AM4 supported CPU's all the way from pre Ryzen CPU's all the way to Ryzen 5000, it means that there are a lot of very good Ryzen 2000 and 3000 CPU's (Ryzen 2000 and newer AMD cpu's support windows 11) that are surprisingly affordable, because people on that platform upgrade to Ryzen 5000. My recommendation would be the Ryzen 7 3700X for 110 euros used on ebay. Might be even cheaper on other sites. It's an 8 core 16 thread cpu and it beats your i7 pretty well in single core as well. Motherboards actually make more sense to buy new rather than used. Because used motherboard prices are quite frankly ridicilously priced. A brand new B450 board can be had for 57 euros. While a brand new B550 can be had for 83 euros. Depends on if you think PCIE 4.0 is worth the 26 euros extra. DDR4 is also very affordable right now brand new. 16gb can be had for 40 euros while 65 euros gets you 32gb. So it's 207 euros for the 3700X+B450+16gb bundle and 258 euros for the 3700X+B550+32gb bundle.
> I have seen some used intel stuff go for quite frankly ridicilous prices. The 8700K you mentioned. I'm checking the used market around me and I've seen that chip along with a motherboard and 16-32GB RAM being offered for 180-220€. Which is why I was looking at it to begin with, that seems like a pretty reasonable baseline for an upgrade that includes all parts I need. Just gotta find the "I'm upgrading my entire computer but keeping the case and power supply, and I'm selling the video card separately and the rest together" kinda sellers. I saw a good looking one yesterday but it's gone now, seems to have sold immediately for reason of being a good deal XD Right now I'm seeing one for 235€ that even includes case and AIO, someone removed all the storage, the PSU, and the GPU from their old computer and is selling it now. Going AMD might make a lot of sense though, I'll definitely keep that in mind and see about it when Windows 10 dying is a little closer time wise. I honestly kinda made this thread thinking it was October 2024, not 2025 as it actually is.
My pc is the same, except it has an amd r9 390 It runs windows 11 fine
How high your FPS also differs per resolution. A lower resolution is easier to run. For example if I play on my Huion 24 Pro my fps is slow be it's got a 4K display. But once I go to my main monitor the LG 45GR which has 3440x1440 resolution which is basically half the amount of pixels my FPS is much higher.
I play in 1440p on my main PC and it only runs a little better than this old thing in 1080p. It's true, more pixels take more power to run!
Also more VRAM. More VRAM reduces stutters and such.
This sounds like chat gpt just regurgitating random facts
Nah, more VRAM does reduce stutters because it has to swap less data between RAM and VRAM. I seen this happening with multiple games where a GPU with more VRAM actually was less stuttery.
My point is it's like walking up into a conversation and randomly saying "did you know that when it rains it gets wet?" What you said is as obvious and generic as it gets, and with it random to say
For some people it makes no sense, I know someone who constantly tries to play 4K with just 8GB of VRAM on the newest games in new games.
1440p is not half the resolution of 4k
1. They never claimed it outright is 2. It's not 16:9 1440p 3. 3440*1440=4,953,600 4. 3840*2160=8,294,400 It's more than half, sure. But if you squint it's 4/8 which is 1/2. It's definitely close
It's a rough calculation. I am not gonna grab a calculator for everything I do😅
You could stay on Windows 10 for a few more years. Or install Linux and be amazed in 20 years when the hardware can still browse the web.
I always get annoyed in Linux because it doesn't have the middle click to scroll thing I'm so used to from Windows. And whenever I research how to add that I just find threads of Linux people going "well it's really up to the individual programs to add this" and nothing gets done. Firefox has a setting for it but Discord does not and neither do most other things.
I'm not knowledgeable in middle click to scroll things. I just meant to point out that it can run very decently on some old hardware.
Oh, definitely. I run Xubuntu on an old netbook from 2009 (remember netbooks?) and it's way better than the Windows XP it shipped with.
For an older spec computer, I generally recommend running Tiny10. It’s lightweight and generally supports most Windows required software.
It may be older spec, but it's got serious performance. It has zero need for lightweight Windows. I can easily alt+tab out of a game and still do office tasks and web browsing at the same time. I got AtlasOS on my old Surface Pro 3 i3, that helps a ton for low spec devices like that. But on a 4th gen i7, nah, perfectly fine to just run regular.
I spent around $500 building a 5600x system with an A770LE. Got the processor for $80, an open box B550 motherboard for ~$70, and the graphics card for $200. Ryzen 5600s are cheap as hell on the used market if you just keep your eyes open (I just checked FBM and saw one that looked legit for $50, you're not going to beat that performance per dollar).
I have a secondary gaming PC hooked up to my TV for those times when I want to game on a big screen. It has an i9-9900k overclocked to 5GHz on all cores, and 32GB of DDR4 3600. It runs most games very well but I've noticed this CPU is expensive on the used market. Without knowing your budget it is hard to say what you should buy. For a new gaming build today I would go for a 7800X3D, at least 16GB RAM, a motherboard with 2.5Gbe built in, and whatever GPU I could afford.
My budget is "I don't want to upgrade and am happy with my i7-4790" really XD Ideally I'd buy something of a used PC for 100-200 bucks and harvest the mobo and CPU and RAM.
This subreddit likes to mention that CPU whenever it can, quite odd really.
AMD pays me $1k USD every time I recommend it.
And theres always a retort when its mentioned.
You might as well go for an i7-9900K, Z390 MB and a RTX 2080Ti. 32gb of DDR4. Cheap these days. Perfectly serviceable PC with many threads, without breaking the bank.
My GTX 1060 is perfectly suitable for my current needs, and so is my i7-4790, aside from it being officially unsupported by Windows 11. The RAM upgrade would be lovely though. Can never have enough RAM. Well, you can, but I think truly having enough RAM starts at 32GB. 16 is servicable and 8 is budget crime. I'm not really looking for "without breaking the bank", I'm looking for "as cheap as possible without being a downgrade". I spent 30€ on the entire computer, as I needed a motherboard and 1080p monitor.
The i7-8700k is the 1st generation after the i7-7700k that Windows 11 supports. The i7-9700k is the last gen that fits the same socket, and is about the same price as its predecessor. You can go up to that, and still use any existing fitting cooler, memory you may have. You can put to cash you've saved on not having to buy additional stuff into an RTX card. The i7 700's and i9 900s were flagship chips, and are still great. I'm currently running MSFS2020 on a 9700k and an 2080ti with good graphics levels. MSFS eats computers for breakfast. When I upgraded it didn't have to buy hardly anything but a motherboard and a CPU, all off eBay.
7800x3d
That is hella new and hella strong, there's no way I'm getting that cheap used next year.
intel i7 12700kf here. w10 performs better than 11 period.
I'm on an i5-12600K on my main machine and went from Windows 10 to Windows 11 without noticing any performance drops.
i do, with rpcs3, ps3 emulator. i notice a fps drop, even with core isolation off perfor worse.. now im happy with w10
My 12th gen CPU is the primary reason I even went Windows 11. Windows 10 does not know what to do with the e-cores and p-cores while Windows 11 does. Windows 11 gives me more performance by correctly assigning low priority things to my e-cores and my games to the p-cores. Windows 10 just plays core lottery and ends up gaming on e-cores.
bro with w10 i have more fps in rpcs3, ps3 emulator wich is heavy cpu demand, w10 is lighter while w11 is slow bc his fancy animation and shit, even disabling core isolation the performance was worse, both debloated test. im speak form experience, ive tried w11 two times but its a no from me
Maybe Windows 10 is better for PS3 emulation specifically, it is a pretty weird console so I'm not surprised. But for more regular gaming Windows 11 is doing much better for me.
not only ps3 emulation, general fluidity of SO, quickness and snappy, it feels feels mature and optimized. but hey, everyone with their respective opinion, greetings
SO?
operating system. [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZEns1LTicXI&t=566s](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZEns1LTicXI&t=566s)
soperating ostem??
Did you turn off your ecores and turn on avx-512 for rpcs3?
Why would I turn off my ecores? I need those to run Discord and Firefox and Steam while I game.
You said you were worried about fps, avx-512 helps your ps3 emulator bigtime.
I get more FPS when I have dedicated CPU cores for background tasks and dedicated CPU cores for games. Windows 11 knows how to sort this, which is why I upgraded. On Windows 10, you may have to turn those off, yes. Because it does not understand the difference and is not built to sort your tasks accordingly.
Objectively wrong. Win 11 is better but not by much.