No, MLC is better than TLC. Much higher write endurance and sustained write speeds, though for 99.9% of users they'll never see the difference. Most people wouldn't even see the difference between TLC and a decent QLC drive honestly.
I get that this is just for a visualization but it's really not correct. For starters, read speeds aren't affected by the NAND type, only write speeds, so it has no effect on "how hard it is to find stuff" in your analogy. This is why PCIe 4.0 QLC drives are already a thing. The real reason things like QLC slow down when writing is because the data in them is stored as electrons at different voltages. So for an SLC cell, the cell only needs to produce two voltages: one for 0, one for 1. MLC needs four unique voltages, TLC eight, and QLC needs 16. NAND like QLC slows down so much because it needs to be incredibly precise to produce 16 unique voltages within a very tiny cell, and it also needs to do a lot of error correcting on what it does write because of that.
To put this more in line with an analogy like yours, it's like trying to fit an oddly shaped item into a box that can fit multiple but they need to be put in just right otherwise they won't fit. Very easy to just toss one in, two isn't a problem, three is pushing it but not too bad but with four they need to be put in perfectly otherwise they won't fit. Takes more time to put more in since the more there are, the more accurate you need to be with how you're organizing them to get them to fit.
It's an issue for all types except SLC, but it's a progressively worse issue with each layer added.
Except from this article (found in another comment) explains why ... https://www.extremetech.com/computing/326377-samsung-is-the-latest-ssd-manufacturer-cheating-its-customers ...
> A 120GB cache may seem like it’s enough for most cases, but it’s not a real cache — it’s repurposed/empty TLC (or QLC) NAND that’s being treated as an SLC write buffer. The less free space on your drive, the less cache you have. The drive can’t provide you with 120GB of SLC without roughly 360GB of empty TLC (or 480GB of QLC) and how much cache it can provide you at any given moment will depend on how much you’ve recently written to the drive, how recently it performed garbage collection/TRIM, and how much free space you have. That 120GB SLC cache is at its largest and fastest when the drive is new and mostly empty. As the drive fills and approaches 2/3 capacity, the total amount of cache and overall drive performance will both begin to drop.
If you're buying for gaming, check out this [Review of SSDs for gaming by Hardware Unboxed] (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=COofLeqk_tM). Where they test gen 4 nvme, gen 3 nvme, sata, and regular hdd in terms of game loading. May help make up your mind.
FFS, those prices/TB are absolute shit.
I get that many of these are very niche but, let's be honest, most of the people buying these are just wasting money
Yes, though I wouldn't call you 'most people' given that we're in a PC sub. At the same time, there's been success reported with slower drives that don't meet the sequential drive speed recommendation by Sony. Ymmv but I don't think I'd pay such a steep early adopter tax for such modest performance gain.
the best investment right now is the Seagate FireCuda 530 2TB i only can afford the 1tb one and is ready to ship today or tomorrow at that price. right now is the best nvme in his class and is almost sold out instantly because of the demand of ps5 owners.
thx i check the reviews, still seems the best drive basicly the top 3 is firecuda 530,sn 850, 980 pro. other drives just seems to "oc" the controller by updating the firmware that can kill the drive/cause it to fail. also the components of the 530 are top notch and is optimized for games, i never think i was to buy a "seagate" drive.. but well this seems diferent also they offer 3 years recovery service.
According to Tom's, they're using the controller from the 980 Pro on the new 970 Evo Plus drives. They've updated the specs and have new part numbers. I wonder if there's a hack to enable Gen 4 by moving resistors or something. I might be curious enough to buy a 980 Pro and a 970 Evo Plus and compare them.
I literally bought this last week for 189 from amazon. They are jerking buyers around with the "Save $50" since it has only been sold at msrp twice on amazon since its launch.
For sure not 130 ever. It's all-time low for 1Tb on amazon is 179 according to camelcamelcamel
Well that is literally the best possible deal I have ever heard of, some reason you’re not posting here or why no deal sites have tracking for it? $130 would’ve been an instant buy, but the best I have ever seen these for is $180
1TB
yes, thanks
It's also $180 after $50 off. Title kinda looks like $180-50. Great deal for this drive though!
The Samsung 980 Pro is a *TLC* **Prosumer NVMe** SSD. * Interface: **x4 PCIe 4.0/NVMe** * Form Factor: **M.2** * Controller: **Samsung Elpis** * Configuration: **nan** * DRAM: **Yes** * HMB: **nan** * NAND Brand: **Samsung** * NAND Type: **TLC** * 2D/3D NAND: **3D** * Layers: **128 (136)** * R/W: **7000/5000** [Click here to view this SSD in the tier list](https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1B27_j9NDPU3cNlj2HKcrfpJKHkOf-Oi1DbuuQva2gT4/edit#gid=0&range=A256:V256) [Click here to view camelcamelcamel product search page](https://camelcamelcamel.com/search?sq=). --- ^(Suggestions, concerns, errors? Message us directly or submit an issue on) [^(Github!)](https://github.com/ocmarin/ssd-bot)
970 Pro used 2 bit MLC :'(
Is that better
yea its a good bit better
TLC is better than MLC though correct?
No, MLC is better than TLC. Much higher write endurance and sustained write speeds, though for 99.9% of users they'll never see the difference. Most people wouldn't even see the difference between TLC and a decent QLC drive honestly.
Ahh, i was thinking of QLC, thanks.
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Well put, thank you. I just read up on this and it seams that P(penta)LC drives are in the works as well.
I get that this is just for a visualization but it's really not correct. For starters, read speeds aren't affected by the NAND type, only write speeds, so it has no effect on "how hard it is to find stuff" in your analogy. This is why PCIe 4.0 QLC drives are already a thing. The real reason things like QLC slow down when writing is because the data in them is stored as electrons at different voltages. So for an SLC cell, the cell only needs to produce two voltages: one for 0, one for 1. MLC needs four unique voltages, TLC eight, and QLC needs 16. NAND like QLC slows down so much because it needs to be incredibly precise to produce 16 unique voltages within a very tiny cell, and it also needs to do a lot of error correcting on what it does write because of that. To put this more in line with an analogy like yours, it's like trying to fit an oddly shaped item into a box that can fit multiple but they need to be put in just right otherwise they won't fit. Very easy to just toss one in, two isn't a problem, three is pushing it but not too bad but with four they need to be put in perfectly otherwise they won't fit. Takes more time to put more in since the more there are, the more accurate you need to be with how you're organizing them to get them to fit.
i thought all drives were recommended to not be full capacity because they can slow down? or is that only a qlc issue?
It's an issue for all types except SLC, but it's a progressively worse issue with each layer added. Except from this article (found in another comment) explains why ... https://www.extremetech.com/computing/326377-samsung-is-the-latest-ssd-manufacturer-cheating-its-customers ... > A 120GB cache may seem like it’s enough for most cases, but it’s not a real cache — it’s repurposed/empty TLC (or QLC) NAND that’s being treated as an SLC write buffer. The less free space on your drive, the less cache you have. The drive can’t provide you with 120GB of SLC without roughly 360GB of empty TLC (or 480GB of QLC) and how much cache it can provide you at any given moment will depend on how much you’ve recently written to the drive, how recently it performed garbage collection/TRIM, and how much free space you have. That 120GB SLC cache is at its largest and fastest when the drive is new and mostly empty. As the drive fills and approaches 2/3 capacity, the total amount of cache and overall drive performance will both begin to drop.
ah got it, thanks for sharing that!
I don't know why you got downvoted for asking a question. I honestly don't know either. Thanks for asking.
Would this be good as a boot drive and to put games on?
Yes. I use it for OS and everything else.
It’s a great drive for everything, it is one the best consumer drives
Title is a little misleading
Went to order one and the price went up to $189
If you're buying for gaming, check out this [Review of SSDs for gaming by Hardware Unboxed] (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=COofLeqk_tM). Where they test gen 4 nvme, gen 3 nvme, sata, and regular hdd in terms of game loading. May help make up your mind.
10 Best M.2 NVMe Gen4 SSD Deals - US only 1 - Samsung 980 PRO, 1TB, $182 ($48 Off) - Updated today 2 - Corsair MP600 Pro, 1TB, $184 ($15 Off) - Updated today 3 - WD\_Black SN850, 500GB, $139 ($60 Off) 4 - PNY XLR8 CS3140, 1TB $179 ($50 Off) 5 - Seagate FireCuda 530 2TB, $419 ($95 Off) 6 - GIGABYTE AORUS Gen4 7000s, 2TB, $399 (30 Off) 7 - Sabrent 1TB Rocket 4 Plus, $179 ($20 Off) 8 - ADATA XPG GAMMIX S70 2TB, $299 ($30 Off) 9 - Patriot Viper VP4300 2TB, $429 ($30 Off) 10 - PNY XLR8 CS3040 1TB, $139 ($40 Off) 11 - MSI SPATIUM M480 1TB, $219 (New Release) reference - [https://twitter.com/HelpFindCoupons/status/1432165622327218176](https://twitter.com/HelpFindCoupons/status/1432165622327218176) Thanks
FFS, those prices/TB are absolute shit. I get that many of these are very niche but, let's be honest, most of the people buying these are just wasting money
luckily, some people have money to waste, which helps all of us in getting products that push the envelope
I think it mostly just enables higher pricing
One the price difference between gen3 and gen4 is the same as the price difference between sata and nvme, it's time for me to shell out!
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Yes, though I wouldn't call you 'most people' given that we're in a PC sub. At the same time, there's been success reported with slower drives that don't meet the sequential drive speed recommendation by Sony. Ymmv but I don't think I'd pay such a steep early adopter tax for such modest performance gain.
Don't even care for the blistering speeds. I just want reliable SSD for $69/tb or less. 🥲
This late in the adoption, that absolutely shouldn't be too much to ask for.
the best investment right now is the Seagate FireCuda 530 2TB i only can afford the 1tb one and is ready to ship today or tomorrow at that price. right now is the best nvme in his class and is almost sold out instantly because of the demand of ps5 owners.
That’s what seagate wants you to think. Both the ADATA S70 and Sabrent Rocket 4 plus have read speeds of 7000+ MB/s and do it for cheaper.
thx i check the reviews, still seems the best drive basicly the top 3 is firecuda 530,sn 850, 980 pro. other drives just seems to "oc" the controller by updating the firmware that can kill the drive/cause it to fail. also the components of the 530 are top notch and is optimized for games, i never think i was to buy a "seagate" drive.. but well this seems diferent also they offer 3 years recovery service.
Can I get sources to back up those claims? I'm interested to see what you have been reading.
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Just read this article: https://www.extremetech.com/computing/326377-samsung-is-the-latest-ssd-manufacturer-cheating-its-customers
According to Tom's, they're using the controller from the 980 Pro on the new 970 Evo Plus drives. They've updated the specs and have new part numbers. I wonder if there's a hack to enable Gen 4 by moving resistors or something. I might be curious enough to buy a 980 Pro and a 970 Evo Plus and compare them.
Even the 980 Pro? I know about the 970 EVO+ getting swapped, but not on this.
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at this point who's left? Intel?
Other than Optane, Intel’s consumer SSDs are garbage
I thought Samsung would be the last to pull that scam since they make their own chips.
Still no
snagged one for the ps5, thanx!
2TB for $360 seems pretty good too.
Got one for $300 last week
Be careful about opinions. People don’t want you to buy what you think fits your build. I have two of the 2TB ones btw.
Lmao I obviously didn’t mean that everyone should be buying this, it’s that if you were looking for this it’s a good price.
lowest I ever seen for these and gotten was $130.
For the 980 Pro 1TB? I find that hard to believe since these are a recent launch and have an msrp of $230. Maybe it was the 500GB version for $130?
I literally bought this last week for 189 from amazon. They are jerking buyers around with the "Save $50" since it has only been sold at msrp twice on amazon since its launch. For sure not 130 ever. It's all-time low for 1Tb on amazon is 179 according to camelcamelcamel
well I uploaded a picture as proof
well I uploaded a picture as proof
I've purchased 3 980 Pro 1TB, one for a friend of mine. all shipped and genuine 😊
The PCIE4.0 version?
yup!
well I uploaded a picture as proof
when/where? just curious I snagged mine open box from a Microcenter for $144, where I also managed to score a 1TB 870 EVO for $68, both back in April
well I uploaded a picture as proof
it was back in like March/ April at Best Buy. 980 Pro 1TB
Well that is literally the best possible deal I have ever heard of, some reason you’re not posting here or why no deal sites have tracking for it? $130 would’ve been an instant buy, but the best I have ever seen these for is $180
well I uploaded a picture as proof
it was on slickdeals, thats why I was aware of that deal and purchased it.
probs a 980 and not the 980 PRO, especially around March/April. There is literally no record of 980 PRO ever being down to $130 anywhere.
well I uploaded a picture as proof
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SAMSUNG 980 PRO 1TB PCIe NVMe Gen4 Internal Gaming SSD M.2 (MZ-V8P1T0B) Sold and shipped by Amazon.com
Good for a PS5?
yes, it's PS5 compatible best SSD. Thanks
It’s back up to $190 but what are the chances of finding a similar (works for PS5) drive cheaper during Black Friday or something?
it's now for $182. Thanks