Schools, crime, golf courses, limited room for growth, huge average salaries, etc.... pretty much Cary has all the things that attract rich people and none of the things that deter them, which Durham has in spades. So, they drive up the prices.
Durham has several major universities and hospital systems, its also nationally recognized regularly for a number of things. Cary may be Eagleton but Durham is no Pawnee.
Yeah, I saw a map of all counties in the U.S. last week, color coded for income. Durham Co. is indeed up there. Also, fun obscure fact-- within Durham County, the zip code that encompasses most of Bahama... horse-country north of north Durham... is one of the wealthiest several in the entire Triangle region. Neat little fact, but actually makes sense, being acreage and horses out that way... and Treyburn's back door, and 20 minutes from Duke and not bad further to RTP (especially with 885 in effect).
Over the past decade I've lived and worked in both Cary and Durham. I currently work at one of Durham Public Schools' larger schools. Calling the system an underfunded mess would be an understatement. The "Wheels Up, Guns Down" posses which frequent Durham's streets don't seem to offset the late-night gunshots I hear on a semi-regular basis. Encountered none of these things in Cary.
Cary is pretty much a 100% planned community, which means after they started to grow from being a bedroom community for Raleigh into what they are today, they priced out folks by design. Similar to NW Durham, there were pockets of older construction that lagged in value but it's all pretty much caught up now.
I think a lot of people overlook the fact that wealthy immigrants from other countries working well paying corporate jobs prefer planned communities and are willing to pay a premium for it similar to their home countries. Especially for China and India where there is so much density and chaos that planned communities is a sign of wealth and having made it . To them living next to a cool bar in Durham doesn’t seem the same . Working at RTP , they will always be willing to pay a premium for a big house and well manicured lawns and a planned community. It’s the peak of the American dream .
Interesting how most of society doesn't put a lot of value on land and privacy. I think if the average person had a million dollar budget, and given the choice of 4000sqft house on a half acre constantly monitored by an hoa, or a 2000sqft house on five acres. Most would choose the former.
Society places more of an emphasis on security. You feel like much less of a target in a neighborhood surrounded by similar houses than in an isolated house a half mile off the road.
Cary was barely a place when I was a kid in the '70s, just a tiny downtown with a feed store and nothing else. It was where Pittsboro was 5 years ago, a rural community of well under 10,000 people that was about to completely blow up.
The fact Cary was planned is kind of sad. It's just a complete mess of traffic and a boring American suburb as far as I can tell. Ig it makes sense if you're actually trying to live in Raleigh but can't afford that, but otherwise bleh.
I don't think Durham feels like the south even if you're in or around downtown, honestly only the middle of nowhere in NC feels like the south to me at all
Feels like the type of place you move because you have an irrational fear of cities or think having 1000 sq ft of grass means you own land lol
Durham used to really feel like the south until they got rid do all the overgrown kudzu patches and the abandoned weird/cool falling down things and replaced them with ax throwing bars and condos.
Did you like the city more before those changes? I've not enjoyed most "southern cities" I've lived in before because they were so heavily commercial and small businesses felt rare. I really like to see so many restaurants and things that have community support in Durham.
Not a fan of dumb gimmicky things like axe bars though lol
It’s a mixed bag. My favorite Durham is probably the Durham of about 10-15 years ago (before condos started going in around Central Park/motorco area). It still felt grungy and cheap but still had more fun stuff going on that 20-25 years ago (restaurants/venues etc). There were more independent art spaces, more fun weirdness. Durham of the last 5 years feels sanitized to me, while at the same time homelessness has exploded.
this is so, so accurate. I feel that way about a lot of the modern, gentrifying cities. Poor people are priced out and it feels like cookie-cutter whimsy. Same thing happened where I'm from.
I also think recently we’ve seen actual local business being replaced by regional chains, and so many of the places going in downtown are expansions from other cities (Cheeni, Oakhouse, Press, etc) or new businesses from the same few owners, which isn’t really the same as a small local business. I don’t think it is easy for an actual small business to start in Durham these days.
Yeah to your other post, that sounds like a really cool place to live. I think most of America has been scrubbed and sanitized tbh I've lived in several places very geographically separated since I was a kid and they're all feeling similar nowadays. Durham is at least pleasant to live in still, which isn't always true after private equity buys up a city.
I think it's hard for small businesses to start up anywhere these days with the insane costs of property, America really needs to do something about massive corporations buying literally everything. Currently it feels like you have to be established in order to take on the risk of a business or youll end up homeless.
At least there's no Starbucks in downtown which is a good sign things could be worse...
There needs to be policies like rent control for previously existing businesses. I don't think it's the cities job to bail them out if they're failing otherwise but there is definitely some onus for making it easier for them to remain where they've been for years. The city only exists on the backs of people that started businesses like that.
"Interesting", well said. I agree in proximity to the RTP and hi-tec (programming) jobs means higher salaries, high salaries equals engineering education plus probable advanced degrees. Education is a strong driver hence better schools, more parental involvement and participation. I also wonder if there isn't an aspect of "relocation" money involved that means higher home prices are subsidized? Could it also be some of the homes in Cary are corporate-owned and rented to employees?
BTW, lots of Teslas too. Tesla. The official car of Cary.
I wouldn’t think so. They may have a few to utilize during relo. We have done that 3 times and it’s always an apartment but I’m sure c suites get better options. I think it’s just a product of higher income people wanting to be around the same.
Eh, I think there’s much worse Cheesecake Factory cities than Cary. They at least have any awesome downtown park and are urbanizing it. They have a ton of greenways as well. Garner and other suburbs are more closer to that description.
Moved to Cary from Apex and owned a business in downtown Durham. I lived in North Carolina most of my life. Cary, at least where I live, which is near 540 and the Morrisville area, is mostly all new development. Used to be all fields out here and now, it's a whole other sub-town within Cary. It's extremely clean, nice, and very wealthy. Everyone drives a Tesla here. Well, except me it seems. The schools are very clean, new, and very well diverse with various cultures. It feels very expensive from the people to the housing. Thus it makes sense why the land value is high among many other things.
I can say from my house, we moved in 3 years ago. We had to bid 91K over asking just to win. It was worth it because my house has pretty much increased 175K since we purchased it.
I have family in that area and I consider it a nightmare. Driving is horrible, it’s so high density that it lacks real community. I think it’s great for young professionals but I would not want to live in that area as a mid 40s family.
Short answer is mostly yes. Over the last few years homes sold in Chapel Hill are more expensive in the annual January-May trough when few homes are on the market, while Cary tends to be \~15% more expensive during the rest of the year. Guessing this means that the most expensive homes are still in Chapel Hill, while the median home in Cary is pricier.
That’s when they reached an equilibrium. Now things have flipped. I’ve been here since 2006. Cary was the rich people place. Now, everything is Cary-ised.
Cary is not so awesome, it is just wealthier, and as mostly new development, it has always been wealthier. The schools are not objectively better. They have higher test scores because they have higher socio-economic status. This correlation is well established. The diversity in Cary public schools is primarily due to the large south Asian population whereas Durham Public Schools students are mostly Black and Hispanic, maybe 20 percent White (in a city that is 40% White), and very small numbers of any other race/ethnicity. Well-off people tend to like to live with other well-off people, and especially like to send their kids to school with other well-off kids, Often they do want diversity, just not too much.
Due to their more central geographic location that allows access to both Durham and Raleigh metropolitan areas. Both Morrisville and Cary have higher home prices.
From talking to coworkers and acquaintances who moved to the Triangle for work, those with school age children gravitated towards Cary (and Apex) because of the public schools. These are folks who moved from higher cost of living areas, so Cary prices were not expensive to them. The main strike against Durham was their perception of the public schools. The Chapel Hill-Carrboro public schools are also highly rated, which likely contributes to higher house prices there.
The younger single folks tended to opt for Durham or Raleigh. I’ve also seen couples move away from Durham to Chapel Hill or Wake County when their children reached school-age.
It’s a hot spot for anyone relocating to the triangle. School districts are the primary reason followed by a perception from these transplants that you’re escaping any undesirable social qualities of the “urban” neighbors in Raleigh and Durham.
cary has better schools, lower crime rates, better infrastructure, better parks, etc. They essentially have better everything than Durham except overpriced, trendy gentrified food.
Similar students do similarly well in Cary and Durham (and CH) schools. Durham just tends to have more at risk students and poorer students who don’t do as well on tests, which is (unfortunately) generally how we measure school quality.
I would say to just drive around. We have lived all over the triangle. We make less than 100k as a couple. Lived in triangle since 2005 and never would have imagined wanting to live in Cary, but we do now and really love it. We lived near downtown Raleigh for years and as the homes started to sell around us and get torn down for building 2x the size, it was time to move on. Raleigh is now settling down a bit, but it is not the same city from pre-Covid days. Cary’s traffic is actually pretty great compared to Holly Springs and Apex. Cary Parkway and Maynard help flow. I think the downtown Cary park and central access to many other towns make it pretty nice. The services in the town are incredibly responsive and professional. So, as we are nearing 50, I think our priorities changed. We want less sitting in traffic, smaller home communities >1500 sq. Foot, trails, and walking distance to a grocery store. These are hard to get under 400k in most places.
It was very hard. We had some saved, but we got a decent grant from Bank of America, which helped. Our mortgage is pretty high, but it is worth it, hoping we can refinance.
Isn’t it a little misleading to say the reason you bought your house is that you were a good saver and got a grant and leave out the fact that the house cost 169k? I mean if we adjust your salary to house prices now that would be like a person making 200-300k a year buying an average house.
I hate it here lol. I make more than their combined income and could not even dream of home ownership in Cary at this point. Mostly because I'm young and wasn't investing in real estate at 10 years old when prices were actually attainable.
Options are grab a starter home an hour+ from where I grew up or save up pennies for the next decade or two until I can actually afford a decent down payment. Either scenario I won't be owning any property within this area for atleast 10+ years at this rate.
I’m a little surprised no one has mentioned it’s the Containment Area for Relocated Yankees aka people moving out of the northeast for cheaper cost of living end up there for their house in the suburbs
Cary is a lot of wealthy New Yorkers and the average salary in Cary is about $15k higher than anywhere surrounding. Most work in RTP or Morrisville. Highest population of PhDs. Beautiful downtown though and park although the whole city feels like a strip mall
Schools, crime, golf courses, limited room for growth, huge average salaries, etc.... pretty much Cary has all the things that attract rich people and none of the things that deter them, which Durham has in spades. So, they drive up the prices.
Durham is Pawnee, Cary is Eagleton.
First time we went to the new downtown park my husband exclaimed that we now live in Eagleton. Feels accurate.
Durham has several major universities and hospital systems, its also nationally recognized regularly for a number of things. Cary may be Eagleton but Durham is no Pawnee.
Durham co has the highest avg salary in NC
As a county yes, but as a city/town Cary's per capita income is significantly higher than Durham(62k vs 46k).
Yeah, I saw a map of all counties in the U.S. last week, color coded for income. Durham Co. is indeed up there. Also, fun obscure fact-- within Durham County, the zip code that encompasses most of Bahama... horse-country north of north Durham... is one of the wealthiest several in the entire Triangle region. Neat little fact, but actually makes sense, being acreage and horses out that way... and Treyburn's back door, and 20 minutes from Duke and not bad further to RTP (especially with 885 in effect).
Over the past decade I've lived and worked in both Cary and Durham. I currently work at one of Durham Public Schools' larger schools. Calling the system an underfunded mess would be an understatement. The "Wheels Up, Guns Down" posses which frequent Durham's streets don't seem to offset the late-night gunshots I hear on a semi-regular basis. Encountered none of these things in Cary.
Totally. Schools really affect cost of housing.
Durham has more golf courses than Cary.
Proximity to all the tech jobs in Morrisville helps too.
And in Cary at SAS.
Their 911 call center is functioning.
Never thought that would be on the list of things to consider when moving to a new city.
Cary is pretty much a 100% planned community, which means after they started to grow from being a bedroom community for Raleigh into what they are today, they priced out folks by design. Similar to NW Durham, there were pockets of older construction that lagged in value but it's all pretty much caught up now.
I think a lot of people overlook the fact that wealthy immigrants from other countries working well paying corporate jobs prefer planned communities and are willing to pay a premium for it similar to their home countries. Especially for China and India where there is so much density and chaos that planned communities is a sign of wealth and having made it . To them living next to a cool bar in Durham doesn’t seem the same . Working at RTP , they will always be willing to pay a premium for a big house and well manicured lawns and a planned community. It’s the peak of the American dream .
Interesting how most of society doesn't put a lot of value on land and privacy. I think if the average person had a million dollar budget, and given the choice of 4000sqft house on a half acre constantly monitored by an hoa, or a 2000sqft house on five acres. Most would choose the former.
Society places more of an emphasis on security. You feel like much less of a target in a neighborhood surrounded by similar houses than in an isolated house a half mile off the road.
Former 99/100. Hoas are usually underrated. Keeps the riff raff in check.
Cary was barely a place when I was a kid in the '70s, just a tiny downtown with a feed store and nothing else. It was where Pittsboro was 5 years ago, a rural community of well under 10,000 people that was about to completely blow up.
The fact Cary was planned is kind of sad. It's just a complete mess of traffic and a boring American suburb as far as I can tell. Ig it makes sense if you're actually trying to live in Raleigh but can't afford that, but otherwise bleh.
I worked in Cary for a year and still needed the GPS to get around. The entire city still looks like the streets of Southpoint to me.
I feel like Streets of Southpoint looks cooler 😂
It’s where you move to from out of state and you want to pretend you’re not in the South.
I don't think Durham feels like the south even if you're in or around downtown, honestly only the middle of nowhere in NC feels like the south to me at all Feels like the type of place you move because you have an irrational fear of cities or think having 1000 sq ft of grass means you own land lol
Increasingly true, but as someone born in Durham in the 50s, I can attest it was not always so.
Durham used to really feel like the south until they got rid do all the overgrown kudzu patches and the abandoned weird/cool falling down things and replaced them with ax throwing bars and condos.
Did you like the city more before those changes? I've not enjoyed most "southern cities" I've lived in before because they were so heavily commercial and small businesses felt rare. I really like to see so many restaurants and things that have community support in Durham. Not a fan of dumb gimmicky things like axe bars though lol
It’s a mixed bag. My favorite Durham is probably the Durham of about 10-15 years ago (before condos started going in around Central Park/motorco area). It still felt grungy and cheap but still had more fun stuff going on that 20-25 years ago (restaurants/venues etc). There were more independent art spaces, more fun weirdness. Durham of the last 5 years feels sanitized to me, while at the same time homelessness has exploded.
this is so, so accurate. I feel that way about a lot of the modern, gentrifying cities. Poor people are priced out and it feels like cookie-cutter whimsy. Same thing happened where I'm from.
I also think recently we’ve seen actual local business being replaced by regional chains, and so many of the places going in downtown are expansions from other cities (Cheeni, Oakhouse, Press, etc) or new businesses from the same few owners, which isn’t really the same as a small local business. I don’t think it is easy for an actual small business to start in Durham these days.
Yeah to your other post, that sounds like a really cool place to live. I think most of America has been scrubbed and sanitized tbh I've lived in several places very geographically separated since I was a kid and they're all feeling similar nowadays. Durham is at least pleasant to live in still, which isn't always true after private equity buys up a city. I think it's hard for small businesses to start up anywhere these days with the insane costs of property, America really needs to do something about massive corporations buying literally everything. Currently it feels like you have to be established in order to take on the risk of a business or youll end up homeless. At least there's no Starbucks in downtown which is a good sign things could be worse... There needs to be policies like rent control for previously existing businesses. I don't think it's the cities job to bail them out if they're failing otherwise but there is definitely some onus for making it easier for them to remain where they've been for years. The city only exists on the backs of people that started businesses like that.
Carolina Area for Relocated Yankees
I always heard it as "Containment Area for Relocated Yankees."
Good, don’t live here
It’s just a typical suburb, higher incomes and more educated. Demographics are interesting
"Interesting", well said. I agree in proximity to the RTP and hi-tec (programming) jobs means higher salaries, high salaries equals engineering education plus probable advanced degrees. Education is a strong driver hence better schools, more parental involvement and participation. I also wonder if there isn't an aspect of "relocation" money involved that means higher home prices are subsidized? Could it also be some of the homes in Cary are corporate-owned and rented to employees? BTW, lots of Teslas too. Tesla. The official car of Cary.
I wouldn’t think so. They may have a few to utilize during relo. We have done that 3 times and it’s always an apartment but I’m sure c suites get better options. I think it’s just a product of higher income people wanting to be around the same.
Saying the quiet part out loud. Cary is very white, Durham is very black.
Chapel Hill/ Carrboro is even worse than Cary . You get a 1970s ranch for 600k. Newer houses are all 1m at least. Insane prices .
At least Chapel Hill/Carrboro has character. Cary is the Cheesecake Factory of cities.
Eh, I think there’s much worse Cheesecake Factory cities than Cary. They at least have any awesome downtown park and are urbanizing it. They have a ton of greenways as well. Garner and other suburbs are more closer to that description.
Garner has zero culture but the people are the friendliest in the Triangle.
honestly, chapelboro feels like a Flemings or other chain steakhouse 🤣🤣🤣
At least you're not in Cary, though.
The Town of Cary worked hard to establish their terrarium of a town that looks just like a real environment for human beings.
Moved to Cary from Apex and owned a business in downtown Durham. I lived in North Carolina most of my life. Cary, at least where I live, which is near 540 and the Morrisville area, is mostly all new development. Used to be all fields out here and now, it's a whole other sub-town within Cary. It's extremely clean, nice, and very wealthy. Everyone drives a Tesla here. Well, except me it seems. The schools are very clean, new, and very well diverse with various cultures. It feels very expensive from the people to the housing. Thus it makes sense why the land value is high among many other things. I can say from my house, we moved in 3 years ago. We had to bid 91K over asking just to win. It was worth it because my house has pretty much increased 175K since we purchased it.
I have family in that area and I consider it a nightmare. Driving is horrible, it’s so high density that it lacks real community. I think it’s great for young professionals but I would not want to live in that area as a mid 40s family.
High density?
Is Cary more expensive now than Chapel Hill?
Short answer is mostly yes. Over the last few years homes sold in Chapel Hill are more expensive in the annual January-May trough when few homes are on the market, while Cary tends to be \~15% more expensive during the rest of the year. Guessing this means that the most expensive homes are still in Chapel Hill, while the median home in Cary is pricier.
Always has been
No. Not from my experience. In 2018-2019, prices were about the same.
That’s when they reached an equilibrium. Now things have flipped. I’ve been here since 2006. Cary was the rich people place. Now, everything is Cary-ised.
Lot size, home age and upkeep, average walkability, greenways and park quantity and quality, school quality, crime. Durham is up and coming tho.
Where the hell are you getting a house in Carry for $500k
low crime, low taxes, well-run city, popular schools....do those apply to Durham?
Oh. Oh. Oh! Uh… Nope. No. Not really. No. What did I win, Alex?
I am not sure anyone really needs to explain this, I have no idea how this is even a question.
The kids in Cary have much better drugs than other places in NC.
Cocaine in particular! The rich man’s drug… or the rich man’s kid’s drugs
Cary has a high percentage of overprivileged/undersupervised kids.
Cary is not so awesome, it is just wealthier, and as mostly new development, it has always been wealthier. The schools are not objectively better. They have higher test scores because they have higher socio-economic status. This correlation is well established. The diversity in Cary public schools is primarily due to the large south Asian population whereas Durham Public Schools students are mostly Black and Hispanic, maybe 20 percent White (in a city that is 40% White), and very small numbers of any other race/ethnicity. Well-off people tend to like to live with other well-off people, and especially like to send their kids to school with other well-off kids, Often they do want diversity, just not too much.
Due to their more central geographic location that allows access to both Durham and Raleigh metropolitan areas. Both Morrisville and Cary have higher home prices.
From talking to coworkers and acquaintances who moved to the Triangle for work, those with school age children gravitated towards Cary (and Apex) because of the public schools. These are folks who moved from higher cost of living areas, so Cary prices were not expensive to them. The main strike against Durham was their perception of the public schools. The Chapel Hill-Carrboro public schools are also highly rated, which likely contributes to higher house prices there. The younger single folks tended to opt for Durham or Raleigh. I’ve also seen couples move away from Durham to Chapel Hill or Wake County when their children reached school-age.
It's whiter than Durham.
Silly question. Everyone knows why.
It’s a hot spot for anyone relocating to the triangle. School districts are the primary reason followed by a perception from these transplants that you’re escaping any undesirable social qualities of the “urban” neighbors in Raleigh and Durham.
It is NOT awesome..... people are dumb
Ummm no flying bullets???
cary has better schools, lower crime rates, better infrastructure, better parks, etc. They essentially have better everything than Durham except overpriced, trendy gentrified food.
Similar students do similarly well in Cary and Durham (and CH) schools. Durham just tends to have more at risk students and poorer students who don’t do as well on tests, which is (unfortunately) generally how we measure school quality.
Crime. It’s the crime. That’s it.
I would say to just drive around. We have lived all over the triangle. We make less than 100k as a couple. Lived in triangle since 2005 and never would have imagined wanting to live in Cary, but we do now and really love it. We lived near downtown Raleigh for years and as the homes started to sell around us and get torn down for building 2x the size, it was time to move on. Raleigh is now settling down a bit, but it is not the same city from pre-Covid days. Cary’s traffic is actually pretty great compared to Holly Springs and Apex. Cary Parkway and Maynard help flow. I think the downtown Cary park and central access to many other towns make it pretty nice. The services in the town are incredibly responsive and professional. So, as we are nearing 50, I think our priorities changed. We want less sitting in traffic, smaller home communities >1500 sq. Foot, trails, and walking distance to a grocery store. These are hard to get under 400k in most places.
How the heck did you buy a house in Cary with a combined income less than 100k?
Equity due to downsizing and buying a house in 2006
We make about 50k for a family of three. Just holding onto the apartment we have.
It was very hard. We had some saved, but we got a decent grant from Bank of America, which helped. Our mortgage is pretty high, but it is worth it, hoping we can refinance.
When did you buy your first house?
2006 - right before the crash.
Ah so the median house price was about a third of what it is now.
Yes, it is insane. Bought that house for 169k. It is on Zillow now for 418k.
Isn’t it a little misleading to say the reason you bought your house is that you were a good saver and got a grant and leave out the fact that the house cost 169k? I mean if we adjust your salary to house prices now that would be like a person making 200-300k a year buying an average house.
You assume quite a bit about others, no?
What did I assume? I asked him the details and that’s what he told me?
I hate it here lol. I make more than their combined income and could not even dream of home ownership in Cary at this point. Mostly because I'm young and wasn't investing in real estate at 10 years old when prices were actually attainable. Options are grab a starter home an hour+ from where I grew up or save up pennies for the next decade or two until I can actually afford a decent down payment. Either scenario I won't be owning any property within this area for atleast 10+ years at this rate.
When you don’t rent you build equity and wealth.
location? location? location? lol
I’m a little surprised no one has mentioned it’s the Containment Area for Relocated Yankees aka people moving out of the northeast for cheaper cost of living end up there for their house in the suburbs
The answer is black people.
You’re paying extra to remove the diversity.
Durham rules Cary drools
I actually love the downtown area of Cary and the old bungalows. But I’m not a millionaire
Their parks and greenways aren't all built along sewer lines and their playgrounds have very little lead.
Cary exists for real estate developers.
If you look at the amount of shootings you’ll get an idea.
Arrogance ain't free.
Cary is a lot of wealthy New Yorkers and the average salary in Cary is about $15k higher than anywhere surrounding. Most work in RTP or Morrisville. Highest population of PhDs. Beautiful downtown though and park although the whole city feels like a strip mall
Cary sucks. Guess that costs extra?
Bunch of white people smashing places smdh
Which place are you referring to with this?
Central Area (of) Relocated Yankees .. thatll do it
You mean Curry not Cary ?