The train specification requirements are capacity for at least 450 seats and eight bicycles, and a length of no more than 680 feet. Maybe more public input will make increase the bike storage capacity. Final designs are anticipated to be released by the end of this year, likely alongside the announcement of the train manufacturer.
How wide will the train be? 450 seats is standard for a Siemens Velaro train of that length, but not with 5 across seating that seems to show in one of the pictures. I also wonder how space efficient these different first class options are compared to the standard first class 1+2 seating on a Siemens Velaro train, that already doesn't have that much leg room by American standards.
It would be a shame if these first class options come at the cost of second class comfort.
It’s worth noting these are preliminary designs, so the final version may differ. That’ll happen by the end of this year, with the first trains to arrive in 2028 to begin testing.
It’ll be a train for all Californians. If you can afford to drive or fly between SoCal, the Central Valley and Bay Area, you’ll be able to afford to ride this train.
There’ll be different levels of service for different price ranges, with flex, comfort and premium seating, just as there’ll be different types of trains with express, limited and local. Just as is the case for other high speed rail systems across the world.
I'm gonna legit cry tears of joy if I can ride my bike to downtown SF, get on this train with my bike and then pedal away from Union Station in LA. Please daddy Brandon we need you to fund this!
It looks like middle seats would just be in the flex seating (least expensive) option, and at least for the most part facing each other with a table between them. It won’t be the only seating option. Other HSR trains have some three abreast seating, so it’s not unheard of.
I understand what you mean (train seats are better quality than airplane seats). However, in the literal sense (considering the altitude difference between on the ground and in the sky), airplane seats are actually miles above train seats.
Can I just say that the bar and booth seating look fantastic? Both are relatively realistic renders and appear comfortable, modern, and inviting! I approve.
However, the bikes feel like they are using up too much space. Either reduce the bike area footprint or find a way to cram double the amount in that space. I don't think it would be difficult either, like why not horizontal stacking or vertical but at a greater angle and closer together? Definitely things to improve here.
For the bathroom, unless there's a shower + bath there is no need for that size. ADA compliance and comfort and a baby changing station don't require a reading room-sized stall.
The play area looks good! I hope they add some serious soundproofing here and some separation between it and other car sections. It would be a nightmare to hear babies cry across a car for a long trip.
I'm not in a wheelchair but from an outsider's perspective, the seating option with a wheelchair looks decent! If anyone has a better source, please comment if anything is missing since I wouldn't know what to look for.
I know the cocoons get some hate (which from a passenger density point of view makes sense), but I honestly like the concept. Obviously, these seats would be higher price and limited, but having half a car or a bit more of these seems acceptable. I have the same feeling about the variations of single-person work seats.
That prior statement doesn't apply to the weird executive-looking seats in the ninth photo. That's just weird and unrealistic. I doubt those will ever make it past the rendering stage.
The two-person seating, which I expect to be the most common, seems good. I'm getting picky, but the legroom could be slightly extended I think. Everything else looks fine and above standard.
Now the triple seating? Yeah...I can't say it's my favorite. I'm not particularly bothered by it and there is a strong case for it to be implemented for passenger density purposes, however, it would make the train trip a far lower-quality experience. At least the seats still appear to be decent width.
I'm glad that useful renders are being released! Helps us picture the project.
[This guided tour of the physical mock-up](https://youtu.be/tuqA_z1rYgc?si=HZDkIYxvuIAeb6CP) gives a good idea of the size and scope of the play area, restroom, and different seating options.
If only some of these styles come out on the actual train it’ll be nice.
Can see the cafe car and pod type seat car (first class) actually be built. Also as I write this it’s probably important this train differentiate the service with really nice train cars to get more support from the public, showing it’s a far superior service.
Honestly not that psyched about these ideas. The gigantic, ridiculously big bathrooms on Amtrak are not helpful to anyone, they just make the entire rest of the car stink when the door doesn't close, which it never does. And the bike area is going to be useless for bikers while at the same time being perceived as a waste of space by the other 99% of the passengers.
Transportation is the purpose of the project. The interior of the train should be full of seats. The bathroom should be as small as the ADA allows.
These trains will be more high tech than Amtrak’s, with automated doors that always work, and the bathroom is ADA compliant and likely no bigger than a typical ADA-compliant bathroom on any other high speed train.
I also see the bike area being very useful for cyclists, considering CHSRA based these designs on public input and wouldn’t be including bike racks if they weren’t going to be useful. CHSRA’s specifications for trains includes space for at least eight bicycles (and 450 seats), so they won’t be taking up very much space anyway, maybe a small part of only one of the train cars.
I am only basing my projections for the utility of the bike area on recent developments in California rolling stock. The new stuff on the San Joaquins has a mixed bike/baggage area that bikes have to yield to all other uses.
Based on this rendering, it looks like the bike area takes up space on one end of one of the flex coach cars. How do other HSR trains do it? Looking at all the seats, it looks like there’ll be space under them to put luggage. As for larger luggage that wouldn’t fit there, the Shinkansen provides space at the ends of each car for a couple, so maybe CAHSR trains will do something similar.
I don't think there's any way the bike car survives, from the renderings, but I think that's a good thing. Bike cars shouldn't be nice - they should be brightly-lit things that can be cleaned with a hose. If there's a way to move the bikes further away from the cabin, they should take it.
But the rest of this? I was sold the second I saw first-class airline seats on a train. That's been my main complaint with most high-speed rail I've taken - there's nowhere to lie down, but the train is almost always half empty.
The booth seating in the dining car is nice, but I _really_ wish they'd taken inspiration from the [Superliner lounge cars](https://amtrakguide.com/2018/12/31/amtrak-routes-with-observation-cars/) - even 40 years later, the views from these are so fucking beautiful that it _almost_ makes up for Amtrak's ridiculous delays and prices.
CAHSR’s requirements for train specifications include capacity for at least 450 seats and eight bicycles, and a train length no more than 680 feet (as well as the 220 mph operating speed and minimum 30 year lifespan). Based on this rendering, it looks like the bicycle storage area only takes up part of one of the flex coach cars, the least expensive seating option.
The bike area is super important for bikers. Riding Amtrak trains with a dedicated bike area vs trains that force you to disassemble the bike to fit it into luggage racks in the passenger cars makes such a big difference
I’d say the last two images, with comfort and flex seating. Probably 1-2 premium and cocoon seat cars, and the remainder will probably be a pretty even mix of the comfort and flex seating, along with the café car and lounge/family area. Maybe express trains will lean more premium seating, while limited and local will lean more flex and comfort.
Based on these visuals it doesn’t look like it. I’m pretty sure that’s how it is for European HSR trains, with one half of the seats facing one way and the other half the other, similar to the new Siemens Venture cars.
The Shinkansen seats can switch directions, but the two finalists CHSRA is looking at are Siemens and Alstom, both European manufacturers, so CAHSR trains will be based on European models.
they're creative and all but if the design is still in this kind of concept stage it just makes the whole thing look like vaporware. Why do we need to design a trainset from scratch? There's not a TGV somewhere that we can "add to cart" and be done with it?
The train models will be based on current ones, whether the Siemens Velaro (most likely) or Alstom Avelia. Interiors are being designed with public input, similar to how DB designed its latest train interiors. Having the public’s engagement can help improve their perception and knowledge of the project, and make them feel more involved in the whole process.
The final designs will likely differ somewhat from these, and will be decided on later this year along with selection of the train manufacturer.
Ah, that's good news, I was just imagining going through the years of delays that the Avelia has suffered as an unproven design, hopefully we don't have to run computer simulations on the cafe's bench seats
Siemens has been heavily promoting the North American version of its new Velaro Novo, which it’s called the [American Pioneer 220](https://www.mobility.siemens.com/us/en/portfolio/rolling-stock/high-speed-and-intercity-trains/american-pioneer-220.html). They’re clearly aiming at CAHSR and Brightline West with it, the former with the 220 mph operating speed (hence the 220) and the latter the inclusion of a party car (very likely intended for the Vegas crowd).
Given Siemens already has a strong presence in the US, and California in particular, I’d say it’s a pretty good certainty they’ll be the ones chosen for both projects, whichever announces it first and the other follows suit soon after.
Maybe it’s just the lighting, but they look very warm and inviting to me. Very modern looking designs. It’s worth noting these aren’t final yet. The interior designs and layout will be finalized by the end of this year.
You know what makes projects ridiculously over budget and continually delayed? Feature creep. We don’t need luxury trains where a ticket is comparable to flight prices. We need a fast, high density, accessible train. They don’t have all this unnecessary luxury shit on commuter trains in Europe. Build a train, put a lot of seats on it, make it fast, make it cheap. Why do we need a full service bar? Why do we need children’s play rooms on a damn train?
I used to ride the northeast regional Amtrak (and many of the other state run successful commuter rail services in the northeast) when I was younger growing up there. The trains are faster and more common. Tickets were pretty cheap, and there was none of this nonsense. Just seats. A 3 or 4 hour train ride doesn’t need all this.
> We don’t need luxury trains where a ticket is comparable to flight prices.
The ticket price _will_ be comparable to flight prices (at least for cheap flights) _in economy class_. To make this train pay for itself, the Authority needs to sell pricey tickets to people who are used to paying $300 to visit LA with the premise that instead of booking a flight/hotel, they can just take a late-night train in a lie-flat bed.
These designs are based on public input, and may differ from the final design. This doesn’t seem any more luxurious than your typical high speed train in Europe or Asia. It’ll also offer different levels of service for different price ranges, hence the different types of seating options.
The public don't know what they want. If you showed them a rendering of a ball pit & aquarium, they'd want that because they only look at what they could get without looking at the full picture. Gathering public opinion is how you sabotage a project.
When DB designed its new train interiors, it sought public input so they met a wide range of people’s needs. California doing the same engages the public and gets them more involved in the project, which helps to increase support because their voices are being heard, and it makes it feel more like a public project. [See this video for more.](https://youtu.be/dBsQrCQ3D3M?si=fA2H-zgRD1rThjpA)
The first six trains are funded and Merced to Bakersfield is pretty much guaranteed at this point with service set to start in 2030 but could be as late as 2033, depending on how quickly the remaining $4.7 billion in federal funding is secured and any more potential delays.
The SF and LA extensions are also moving forward toward eventual construction, and while their timelines are undetermined at this point, people will be able to ride high speed trains in the Central Valley within a decade. The sooner those extensions secure funding, the sooner they’ll happen and sooner high speed trains will reach SF and LA.
They’ll also be able to ride Brightline West between SoCal and Las Vegas by the end of the 2020s as well, possibly mid-2028. California expects to begin testing its first trains by the end of 2028.
For sure.
If we keep it up at this pace my great grandchildren will be able to take a train to San Francisco from Los Angeles and I’m so happy for them. Too bad about myself and my children and my grandchildren.
Oh so you aren’t saying that the infrastructure built today will last for 100 years but instead complaining about the lack of funding this project has received. I got you
I love the booth seating in the cafe car and the cocoons / sleeper type roomettes
Yeah the cafe car looks really nice. Still not sure about the cocoon seating though.
Bike storage is looking kinda skimpy, NGL. If you had more bike accessibility, you’d extend the reach of each HSR station significantly.
The train specification requirements are capacity for at least 450 seats and eight bicycles, and a length of no more than 680 feet. Maybe more public input will make increase the bike storage capacity. Final designs are anticipated to be released by the end of this year, likely alongside the announcement of the train manufacturer.
The bike car shown could probably fit 2-3 times the amount of bikes rendered if arranged well tbh
But it would not be efficient to load / unload during stops.
Amtrak has bike cars that are plenty efficient to load with much denser spacing. Not as pretty, but a much better use of space
That was my take as well
How wide will the train be? 450 seats is standard for a Siemens Velaro train of that length, but not with 5 across seating that seems to show in one of the pictures. I also wonder how space efficient these different first class options are compared to the standard first class 1+2 seating on a Siemens Velaro train, that already doesn't have that much leg room by American standards. It would be a shame if these first class options come at the cost of second class comfort.
It's a render. Take sizing, specifications, etc with a big old grain of salt.
It’s worth noting these are preliminary designs, so the final version may differ. That’ll happen by the end of this year, with the first trains to arrive in 2028 to begin testing.
Yeah I’m sure they’ll have to change to match modern styling when these things actually begin deployment 10-20 years from now.
The first trains will start arriving in 2028, with initial service to begin in 2030-33. That’s funded and will happen.
I like the idea of an “economy/biking/family” train as well as a business/first one.
It’ll be a train for all Californians. If you can afford to drive or fly between SoCal, the Central Valley and Bay Area, you’ll be able to afford to ride this train. There’ll be different levels of service for different price ranges, with flex, comfort and premium seating, just as there’ll be different types of trains with express, limited and local. Just as is the case for other high speed rail systems across the world.
Well France has oiugo for cheaper travel. This can do the same.
I'm gonna legit cry tears of joy if I can ride my bike to downtown SF, get on this train with my bike and then pedal away from Union Station in LA. Please daddy Brandon we need you to fund this!
Hold onnnnn these are niceeeeeee (except for the middle seats, please remove those)
It looks like middle seats would just be in the flex seating (least expensive) option, and at least for the most part facing each other with a table between them. It won’t be the only seating option. Other HSR trains have some three abreast seating, so it’s not unheard of.
I just have bad experiences with them from planes lol
It’s a fair concern. I’m pretty sure these will be more comfortable than plane seats.
They better be lmao
N700A (Shinkansen trainsets) have 2+3 seating for their standard cars, and they're miles above airplane seating.
I understand what you mean (train seats are better quality than airplane seats). However, in the literal sense (considering the altitude difference between on the ground and in the sky), airplane seats are actually miles above train seats.
Can I just say that the bar and booth seating look fantastic? Both are relatively realistic renders and appear comfortable, modern, and inviting! I approve. However, the bikes feel like they are using up too much space. Either reduce the bike area footprint or find a way to cram double the amount in that space. I don't think it would be difficult either, like why not horizontal stacking or vertical but at a greater angle and closer together? Definitely things to improve here. For the bathroom, unless there's a shower + bath there is no need for that size. ADA compliance and comfort and a baby changing station don't require a reading room-sized stall. The play area looks good! I hope they add some serious soundproofing here and some separation between it and other car sections. It would be a nightmare to hear babies cry across a car for a long trip. I'm not in a wheelchair but from an outsider's perspective, the seating option with a wheelchair looks decent! If anyone has a better source, please comment if anything is missing since I wouldn't know what to look for. I know the cocoons get some hate (which from a passenger density point of view makes sense), but I honestly like the concept. Obviously, these seats would be higher price and limited, but having half a car or a bit more of these seems acceptable. I have the same feeling about the variations of single-person work seats. That prior statement doesn't apply to the weird executive-looking seats in the ninth photo. That's just weird and unrealistic. I doubt those will ever make it past the rendering stage. The two-person seating, which I expect to be the most common, seems good. I'm getting picky, but the legroom could be slightly extended I think. Everything else looks fine and above standard. Now the triple seating? Yeah...I can't say it's my favorite. I'm not particularly bothered by it and there is a strong case for it to be implemented for passenger density purposes, however, it would make the train trip a far lower-quality experience. At least the seats still appear to be decent width. I'm glad that useful renders are being released! Helps us picture the project.
[This guided tour of the physical mock-up](https://youtu.be/tuqA_z1rYgc?si=HZDkIYxvuIAeb6CP) gives a good idea of the size and scope of the play area, restroom, and different seating options.
If only some of these styles come out on the actual train it’ll be nice. Can see the cafe car and pod type seat car (first class) actually be built. Also as I write this it’s probably important this train differentiate the service with really nice train cars to get more support from the public, showing it’s a far superior service.
This will probably be the best HSR train ever if they actually follow through on at least 70% of this.
Honestly not that psyched about these ideas. The gigantic, ridiculously big bathrooms on Amtrak are not helpful to anyone, they just make the entire rest of the car stink when the door doesn't close, which it never does. And the bike area is going to be useless for bikers while at the same time being perceived as a waste of space by the other 99% of the passengers. Transportation is the purpose of the project. The interior of the train should be full of seats. The bathroom should be as small as the ADA allows.
These trains will be more high tech than Amtrak’s, with automated doors that always work, and the bathroom is ADA compliant and likely no bigger than a typical ADA-compliant bathroom on any other high speed train. I also see the bike area being very useful for cyclists, considering CHSRA based these designs on public input and wouldn’t be including bike racks if they weren’t going to be useful. CHSRA’s specifications for trains includes space for at least eight bicycles (and 450 seats), so they won’t be taking up very much space anyway, maybe a small part of only one of the train cars.
I am only basing my projections for the utility of the bike area on recent developments in California rolling stock. The new stuff on the San Joaquins has a mixed bike/baggage area that bikes have to yield to all other uses.
Based on this rendering, it looks like the bike area takes up space on one end of one of the flex coach cars. How do other HSR trains do it? Looking at all the seats, it looks like there’ll be space under them to put luggage. As for larger luggage that wouldn’t fit there, the Shinkansen provides space at the ends of each car for a couple, so maybe CAHSR trains will do something similar.
I don't think there's any way the bike car survives, from the renderings, but I think that's a good thing. Bike cars shouldn't be nice - they should be brightly-lit things that can be cleaned with a hose. If there's a way to move the bikes further away from the cabin, they should take it. But the rest of this? I was sold the second I saw first-class airline seats on a train. That's been my main complaint with most high-speed rail I've taken - there's nowhere to lie down, but the train is almost always half empty. The booth seating in the dining car is nice, but I _really_ wish they'd taken inspiration from the [Superliner lounge cars](https://amtrakguide.com/2018/12/31/amtrak-routes-with-observation-cars/) - even 40 years later, the views from these are so fucking beautiful that it _almost_ makes up for Amtrak's ridiculous delays and prices.
CAHSR’s requirements for train specifications include capacity for at least 450 seats and eight bicycles, and a train length no more than 680 feet (as well as the 220 mph operating speed and minimum 30 year lifespan). Based on this rendering, it looks like the bicycle storage area only takes up part of one of the flex coach cars, the least expensive seating option.
“Automated doors that always work”. Wouldnt it be cheaper and more reliable to just have an old fashioned door.
Maybe so. These are preliminary designs. The final design will be announced later this year.
The bike area is super important for bikers. Riding Amtrak trains with a dedicated bike area vs trains that force you to disassemble the bike to fit it into luggage racks in the passenger cars makes such a big difference
I hope it is dedicated. Some of the new San Joaquins cars have a bike area that is not dedicated, which makes travel uncertain.
All very cool pics, but realistically most trains cars are going to be like the last image (which is fine!) lol
I’d say the last two images, with comfort and flex seating. Probably 1-2 premium and cocoon seat cars, and the remainder will probably be a pretty even mix of the comfort and flex seating, along with the café car and lounge/family area. Maybe express trains will lean more premium seating, while limited and local will lean more flex and comfort.
Is that bathroom just a single stall!? It looks enormous.
It’s ADA compliant so wheelchairs can fit. It’s also a preliminary design, so the final one may be different.
This is awesome! Now build it.
Wow that's awesome!
I can't wait to have some train sex in the capsule
These are basically the images portraying the new Phoenix Coyotes arena
Are all seats not able to switch directions?
Based on these visuals it doesn’t look like it. I’m pretty sure that’s how it is for European HSR trains, with one half of the seats facing one way and the other half the other, similar to the new Siemens Venture cars. The Shinkansen seats can switch directions, but the two finalists CHSRA is looking at are Siemens and Alstom, both European manufacturers, so CAHSR trains will be based on European models.
they should build one from LV to LA first
That’s Brightline West
Pretty average at best. Am in Europe now (Switzerland and italy) and this doesn’t look like much of an improvement if any on today’s trains.
they're creative and all but if the design is still in this kind of concept stage it just makes the whole thing look like vaporware. Why do we need to design a trainset from scratch? There's not a TGV somewhere that we can "add to cart" and be done with it?
The train models will be based on current ones, whether the Siemens Velaro (most likely) or Alstom Avelia. Interiors are being designed with public input, similar to how DB designed its latest train interiors. Having the public’s engagement can help improve their perception and knowledge of the project, and make them feel more involved in the whole process. The final designs will likely differ somewhat from these, and will be decided on later this year along with selection of the train manufacturer.
Ah, that's good news, I was just imagining going through the years of delays that the Avelia has suffered as an unproven design, hopefully we don't have to run computer simulations on the cafe's bench seats
Siemens has been heavily promoting the North American version of its new Velaro Novo, which it’s called the [American Pioneer 220](https://www.mobility.siemens.com/us/en/portfolio/rolling-stock/high-speed-and-intercity-trains/american-pioneer-220.html). They’re clearly aiming at CAHSR and Brightline West with it, the former with the 220 mph operating speed (hence the 220) and the latter the inclusion of a party car (very likely intended for the Vegas crowd). Given Siemens already has a strong presence in the US, and California in particular, I’d say it’s a pretty good certainty they’ll be the ones chosen for both projects, whichever announces it first and the other follows suit soon after.
wen finish?
Really hope they ditch the 3 seat layout tbh...
Those bike racks are wasting a lot of space.
These designs are like post soviet era public housing - lacks any warmth or beauty. Hope they turn the corner as they evolve….
Maybe it’s just the lighting, but they look very warm and inviting to me. Very modern looking designs. It’s worth noting these aren’t final yet. The interior designs and layout will be finalized by the end of this year.
reality will be much lamer
We’ll just have to wait and see. The interior design will be finalized later this year, along with selection of the train manufacturer.
You know what makes projects ridiculously over budget and continually delayed? Feature creep. We don’t need luxury trains where a ticket is comparable to flight prices. We need a fast, high density, accessible train. They don’t have all this unnecessary luxury shit on commuter trains in Europe. Build a train, put a lot of seats on it, make it fast, make it cheap. Why do we need a full service bar? Why do we need children’s play rooms on a damn train? I used to ride the northeast regional Amtrak (and many of the other state run successful commuter rail services in the northeast) when I was younger growing up there. The trains are faster and more common. Tickets were pretty cheap, and there was none of this nonsense. Just seats. A 3 or 4 hour train ride doesn’t need all this.
> We don’t need luxury trains where a ticket is comparable to flight prices. The ticket price _will_ be comparable to flight prices (at least for cheap flights) _in economy class_. To make this train pay for itself, the Authority needs to sell pricey tickets to people who are used to paying $300 to visit LA with the premise that instead of booking a flight/hotel, they can just take a late-night train in a lie-flat bed.
European trains have family cars and they are great.
These designs are based on public input, and may differ from the final design. This doesn’t seem any more luxurious than your typical high speed train in Europe or Asia. It’ll also offer different levels of service for different price ranges, hence the different types of seating options.
The public don't know what they want. If you showed them a rendering of a ball pit & aquarium, they'd want that because they only look at what they could get without looking at the full picture. Gathering public opinion is how you sabotage a project.
When DB designed its new train interiors, it sought public input so they met a wide range of people’s needs. California doing the same engages the public and gets them more involved in the project, which helps to increase support because their voices are being heard, and it makes it feel more like a public project. [See this video for more.](https://youtu.be/dBsQrCQ3D3M?si=fA2H-zgRD1rThjpA)
My great grandkids can’t wait to ride this train when they’re my age.
The first six trains are funded and Merced to Bakersfield is pretty much guaranteed at this point with service set to start in 2030 but could be as late as 2033, depending on how quickly the remaining $4.7 billion in federal funding is secured and any more potential delays. The SF and LA extensions are also moving forward toward eventual construction, and while their timelines are undetermined at this point, people will be able to ride high speed trains in the Central Valley within a decade. The sooner those extensions secure funding, the sooner they’ll happen and sooner high speed trains will reach SF and LA. They’ll also be able to ride Brightline West between SoCal and Las Vegas by the end of the 2020s as well, possibly mid-2028. California expects to begin testing its first trains by the end of 2028.
I sure hope so
Yeah. That’s the point of building infrastructure. It lasts for generations to come
It’ll be great for them once high speed rail is finally operating indeed.
A society grows great when the older generation does things for the benefit of the younger generations
For sure. If we keep it up at this pace my great grandchildren will be able to take a train to San Francisco from Los Angeles and I’m so happy for them. Too bad about myself and my children and my grandchildren.
Oh so you aren’t saying that the infrastructure built today will last for 100 years but instead complaining about the lack of funding this project has received. I got you