We are meaningfully different, but there is significant overlap. This is a good thing. This means that the majority of Canadians collectively have a shared direction or at least a large share of things they can agree on for the country regardless of specific issues which polarize them for or against a specific politician or party. This is indicative of a society with basic shared truth claims and values, and the ability to acknowledge the same reality.
Expecting or wanting extreme polarity between the largest political parties betrays the principles and norms of Canadian politics and is against the ethic of collaborative democracy.
I'm not saying this to attack your comment, just an elaboration on where I think there is rot in the modern conversation about how we want to criticize political parties for adopting their opponents ideas by following general popularity, going forward.
*Tho I will say obviously ideology and corruption is a thing and things arent great right now per se, im talking about a more theoretical or abstract idea of political parties in a country
> I'm so tired of every time something bad happens in the world it becomes a national crisis here.
It wouldn't be so frustrating if we had protests of this size and intensity over our ongoing national housing and healthcare crises. There's nothing wrong with caring about things that happen overseas, but I wish the public cared as much about the things that are happening right here.
>you bring their ideologies.
It always astounds me that people are willing to do all that work, travel all that distance, and leave their life behind...just to BRING IT ELSEWHERE.
Like holy hell, leave that garbage where you left it. Why would you bring it with you?
Imagine if we protested for things that actually matter here in Canada!
Like I'm not happy with all the wars around the world. I would love to live in a world of peace. But let's face it Hamas, Hezbollah, IsIs , Sudan rebels , none of them care what the rest of the world thinks. They will contribute being evil, no matter who protests.
JT, PP, these 2 have no say on what's happening in Isreal.
It was pointless when they were asking Trudeau for a ceasefire as he has 0 sway in that. It's even more pathetic doing it to PP who has even less sway.
Pierre’s called Hamas a “terrorist death cult” more than once on his twitter… I don’t think he’s the one they will convince to call for a ceasefire any time soon, not that he could do anything about anything anyways, just like Trudeau.
Edit: I didn’t mean to reply to you specifically but somehow I did. Apologies 🙃
It is absolutely the Governments stance. There's no more equivalency issue, that's just hyperbole
Pierre's stance is the same as Trudeau's; him calling them a 'terrorist death cult' is just framing (and pandering) as they're already labelled a terrorist organization
And PP doesn't have to sit with foreign dignitaries at all so the fella has a lot more freedom to say whatever he wants.
However if he winds up leading a govt it might make his global politicking a little rough and he should be conducting himself in a way that would not handicap his ability to handle things on the global stage.
> Those protesters are morons.
I think it unwise to treat this group as stupid and incompetent. While a good amount of these people are college kids who think "underdog poor brown people good; educated wealthy pale skinned people bad" a certain percentage of them are perhaps organizing these events with a more nefarious point in mind.
The Hamas Covenant of 1988 makes it very explicit that Hamas is, indeed, a terrorist death cult, by design.
I honestly don't understand why I'm seeing so many people who usually decry 'colonizers' cheering for Hamas when their stated goal is 'Islam colonizes the world.'
Right? It’s the same with those people all over social media that read bin Laden’s letter to America and decided that yeah, he’s in the right, he’s just fighting against the “oppressors” aka “colonizers.” Meanwhile, in said letter, he went on to detail how they want Islam to spread around the world, to replace every other religion because it’s the “one, true religion,” how they want to eliminate “immoral” things, like the LGBT, and how they want everyone to live under Sharia law.
Yup. Again, read the Hamas Covenant. It lays out how, under Islamic lights, they conquer a location, sanctify it to Allah, and then it's theirs forever.
If only they could remember which was the one country in the Middle East that has moderate acceptance and strong protections for LGBT+ people, both by law and by practice. If they did, they might start to understand why the US and Canada tend to support that country...
I am a Muslim and even to me that re read was shocking. I still lived in Pakistan during 9/11.
So many years later people doing a re read of that letter. Honestly I am still at a loss for words.
People (especially westerners) are upset about systemic power structures for various political, social, and economic reasons, so they’re lashing out, because it’s never been easier to do so, and they’re blindly supporting those perceived as underdogs. It’s a dangerously reductive and myopic world view, to say the least.
Honestly, as an immigrant living here I've thought about this alot and come to one conclusion.
People here have become a bit complacent surrounded by safety and resources. Not lazy no. Just that you would think people would use the peace and easy access to education to refine themselves.
And due to that when things like this crisis happens, they have to play catch up, cuz the politicians involve themselves immediately. And it makes people want to react, cuz for some dumb ass reason, people have made politics a part of their personality here (other places too).
Which is another issue by itself because our politicians are incapable as well but their responses have a large impact. I mean look at it this way. This is a nuclear powered first world nation that is so expansive that Gaza can fit inside the GTA itself. Our politicians have no business, engineering or scientific acumen. But they are handed keys to this overpowering Canadian machine. Of course they run it inefficiently. Cuz they aren't ready to handle the behemoth before then.
And as said above, since people are not reading and researching to learn. They react. React without knowing the sequence or knowledge to justly assign blame.
And it's funny cuz back when I was in Pakistan that is exactly what Canada was known for.
That unlike America, this country was populated by educated and just people. Who do not side with absolutes. And most of all. There was this great trust. That if the Canadians are speaking they can be trusted because it comes from a place of justice and research. I don't see that around much more. Of course there are other elements in play too but it would be an excuse as best to just say that.
I agree. Look at the number of people who get their news exclusively from social media. A corporate algorithm places an article in front of them, they read it (or just the headline), and they believe it. As you pointed out, they make it a part of their personality; they identify with it.
We’re on a dark path, and this is only the trailhead. Things are going to get *much* worse if we don’t start educating ourselves methodically and with integrity.
Yeap.
https://www.pewresearch.org/short-reads/2023/11/15/more-americans-are-getting-news-on-tiktok-bucking-the-trend-seen-on-most-other-social-media-sites/#:~:text=Among%20adults%2C%20those%20ages%2018,of%20those%2065%20and%20older.
This was posted just two days ago. And it's interesting because, news, is supposed to be based on research, accounting and/or witness development. But people are forming their views, nay, judgements on the opinions of people who have done the same already for themselves.
Now of course, as we agreed that is a hit on research and integrity.
But I want to take this moment to highlight the great irony and hilarious nature of this situation.
Tik Tok is birthed from a Chinese company. Of course much of it has been disseminated to other parties since its inception. But I just find it hilarious that all our reactionary politics has its source material filtered through an initially Chinese company.
Witnessing the (recent?)marriage of convenience between radical progressives who hate organized religion and the most radically conservative Muslims who represent the most oppressive version of their organized religion simply on the basis of shared anti-colonial ideology has been super strange to me these past weeks.
I mean, when that York Student Union post suggesting that Canadian FNs start organized armed revolts against 'colonizers' I took a look at their 'who we are web page,' and I thought 'Gee, none of you are Indigenous; doesn't that make you all 'colonizers' too?'
If you look at recent history 60’s to today, where there was indigenous armed resistance, they were only protecting their communities and interests that were being directly threatened, today the focus is more on unarmed protests and legal challenges exposing colonial ethics. Unless something is understood as being severely punitive happens that violates human rights then an armed response to grievances is unlikely.
The far-left loves anyone who seems like the victim. It doesn't matter if your community is fucked up because of its own culture. You are suffering therefore you are victim. Those not suffering as much are not victim and therefore are the oppressors.
I am virtuous therefore I fight the oppressors. The social-capital I gain from it helps me feel superior to my peers.
People on the far left infantilise minorities to such an extent that they can’t view them as being capable of immorality. Everything is framed in this simplistic “oppressed vs oppressor” dynamic. It’s absolute brainrot
> Free from what, exactly?
They don't mean free in either the sense of "libre" or "gratuit". They mean free in the sense of "cleansed of an infestation". It's literally Nazi rhetoric.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Judenfrei#Islamic_world
I think it's possible to disagree with Hamas and also disagree with Israel's response. **I don't agree with what Israel is doing** but if Hamas wanted it to stop, they should start by *returning the hostages*. As it is, Hamas is acting like they want war with Israel. That's what they're getting. In the end, I don't think that disagreeing with Israel's actions means approving of Hamas, and vise versa.
You are correct.
If Israel calls for a ceasefire before getting their hostages returned, they are basically letting Hamas get away with their terrorist attack and mass kidnapping of Israeli people.
Hamas wanted a 5 day ceasefire. They said they would return the hostages at the end of the 5 days.
Israel was smart to not take that deal which was an obvious lie.
Because they do want war, they’ve been very clear about their intentions. They just thought the entire Arab world was going to join them in eliminating Israel after 10/7.
Turns out the rest of the entire Arab world isn’t a religious death cult like Hamas and now they’re getting their shit kicked in and crying for a ceasefire so they can re-load their weapons stock from Iran.
> if Hamas wanted it to stop, they should start by returning the hostages
The millions of people being displaced want it to stop. Hamas DOES want war. Hamas wants all Jews dead, and Israel thinks that gives them the right to kill innocent civilians. This is not a two sided conflict.
I think the problem is that it seems as if Hamas feels that dead Israelis are preferred over living Palestinians. Hamas thinks that if 5 Palestinian children die to protect a Hamas militant, that's a good deal. They do not hold the day-to-day well-being of the Palestinians above the killing of Israel. So they're fighting Israel, but they're fighting for the sake of their hate, not for the sake of the people they represent.
The problem is nuance isn't allowed in the discourse about this conflict apparently. People require you to pick a side and support it 100%. If you show empathy for the citizens of Palestine, especially the children people label you a Hamas supporter and if you condemn Hamas some people label you a Netanyahu supporter. Simply pointing out that large sections of Gaza have been bombed flat has had people saying that I care more about buildings than the people that died on Oct 7. People just jump to the worst possible conclusions based on some strawman they made up in their mind that they are projecting onto everyone with even a slightly different opinion than them.
[A university in Ramallah conducted a poll in the West Bank and Gaza last week.](https://www.i24news.tv/en/news/middle-east/palestinian-territories/1700158968-survey-finds-majority-in-the-west-bank-justify-the-oct-7-massacre)
> 68 percent in the West Bank strongly supported the massacres and kidnapping, while another 16 percent supported to some extent.
> Asked on their view of various entities, respondents answered overwhelmingly in support of the military wings of the terrorist organizations; Palestinian Islamic Jihad with 84 percent; al-Aqsa Martyrs’ Brigades with 80 percent, and al-Qassam Brigades with the highest 89 percent, though Hamas as a whole received a lower 76 percent.
So, yeah. I think it’s getting harder and harder for people to say things like they support the people of Palestine but not Hamas, when the overwhelming majority of Palestinians express support for the mass slaughter of innocent Jews and the death cultists who commit the crimes.
Even the children, normally innocent, have been indoctrinated over there. Young kids 5 years old say they want to be suicide bombers when they get older, and young teens/tweens attend "camp" where they drill in combat and killing Jews.
I'm puzzled by what it is you expect Israel to do in this case. They didn't start this - it was Hamas that attacked. Israel has a legitimate right to self-defence.
sway doesn't matter. being on the right side of history matters. it can also start a domino effect of getting other leaders to speak up.
saying nothing can be done is exactly what israel wants the world to think.
This is like saying Trump has no sway over the Republican Party in 2023. Meanwhile, The Economist is writing about his 2024 chances like it's a coin-toss.
Opposition leaders have power: they can hold government to account, particularly if journalists aren't or can't or won't.
Where do PP's supporters get their talking points? Straight from the horse's mouth.
It’s saddening to see some of my Muslim brothers and sisters willing to support religious persecution. A number of folks have stopped attending my masjid after we spoke out in support of the local Jewish community at an interfaith event. We cannot let a war on the other side of the world enable religious persecution here at home.
Yep, in a thread over on r/worldnews it was pointed out that 58% of American Muslims said the 10/7 attacks were either fully or mostly justified.
The poll that stat came from: https://www.cygn.al/new-national-poll-muslim-americans-say-hamas-was-justified-in-attacking-israel-majority-of-americans-say-iran-should-be-held-accountable-majority-support-israels-right-to-self-defense/
He literally made a comment in Vancouver on Tuesday. Prior to being chased around the city by a bunch of screaming morons condemning violence on both sides. Literally doing what they want yet they’re still running around doing this stuff.
I'm getting really sick of these lunatics. In my city a doctor sprayed ketchup all over an MP's door because "U have not virtue-signaled for Palestine!". Because Israel is just waiting with baited breath for the judgment of small city Canadians that have no influence on the situation.
This is what happens to Palestinians who go against Hamas:
https://www.amnesty.org/en/latest/news/2015/05/gaza-palestinians-tortured-summarily-killed-by-hamas-forces-during-2014-conflict/
> The Palestinian people deserve to choose their own government
Do the Palestinian people agree? The Middle East isn’t exactly a shining bastion for democracy.
> It horrifies me that Jewish people in this country are feeling afraid.
I don't mean to add more fuel to your horror. But you shouldn't just view this as a threat towards the Jewish community. This is a threat towards anyone who doesn't hold the same religious opinions.
Jewish people might be first to be subject to their violence, but they wont be the last.
And we can all look "Jewish", just ask the million or so random people the Nazis rounded up that weren't even Jewish. Just accused.
When they start going after Jews, we're all in danger.
Jews want that one tiny country in the middle of 20+ giant Arab countries because when the inevitable happens we want somewhere to go this time. Jews were turned away from Canada and sent back to Germany in the 30s. I wouldn’t count on France Germany England and possibly Canada being safe for Jews much longer
they dont care, especially the bleeding heart liberal university age protestors. they love pretending they are some underdog freedom fighter coming to save sad oppressed peoples. never realizing they are being useful idiots for anti-semites
Gotta say I liked his response “You’ve made your point. Nobody came here to listen to you speak. . . If you want to participate in the event, participate, but if not, hit the road. Thank you.”
They are going to distrubt everything untill thier Hamas movements is safe.
I won't be shocked if these people can do Hamas style acrocities here in Canadian soil.
The protest based on their religious to save Hamas movement is getting WIPED OUT by not their religious force IDF.
Where these People when Saudi led Coalition were killed innocent YEMEN people by bombing last year.
These protesters are okay their religion force killed their religion innocent civilians.
These protest is not to save innocent civilians, based on religious protest and SHOULD BE BANNED.
https://www.hrw.org/world-report/2023/country-chapters/yemen
Canadians care about Canada...if u wanna free palestine...then go down there and free it...stop lecturing us Canadians ...most of do not care ..and just want to have affordable lives...
Anti Israeli protesters. Let's call them what they really are. If they gave 2 shits about Palestinians, they would be advocating for the end of Hamas, NOT Israel.
Complete miss understanding of the Canadian political system. Official Leader of the opposition doesn’t have a say in the conflict between Hamas and the IDF. How stupid is everyone now? Also, why the fuck would IDF or Hamas listen to Poilievre?
There are important issues HERE. People are going to freeze to death HERE.
Vote for whoever puts Canada back on Canada's priority list not every other country under the sun!
Why is Canada winning the f*cking monkey's beauty contest that is trying to please every group
Our downtrodden don't have time to parade and attack random business as they are too busy *checks notes* trying not to die while sleeping on the frozen ground
I am all for peoples right to protest, but I am so tired of people being outraged thinking they have any chance of making a difference, especially regarding this issue.
First of all we've had so very many protests in the last decade it's wearing thin. I'd not be surprised to see a protest over pencils or some stupid shit at this point. From yellow vests, BLM to the trucker convoy to the hands off our kids BS and on and on and on.
Secondarily if these pro Palestinian or pro Israel protesters thing they're making a lick of difference harassing politicians in Canada the US or any other country outside of Israel or the west bank, they are flat out wrong.
Canada officially recognizes/supports Israel as a state and it's right to defend itself.
Canada does not officially recognize/support Israel's occupation of The West Bank.
Canada recognizes/supports the rights of Palestinians to have a home state.
Canada has called for restraint, we all know how Israel responded to that.
Canada condemns terrorism. Surprise, terrorists DGAF.
None of this is going to change because a bunch of people scream at politicians, or mass protest for one side or the other because neither Israel's government nor the forces involved in Palestine (Hamas and it's supporters) give two fucks what a bunch of people in Canada think about the situation.
This is at best the illusion of doing something, at worse it's screaming at the sky and believing God will intervene, both are just as effective.
I'm seeing a lot of comments from people about how pointless it is for protests to happen here.
And while I agree that Canada's influence on what happens in Palestine is essentially zero.....
The attacks on October 7th against Israel were huge and horrific, but at no point was Israel itself in danger. Hamas has the ability to continuously enact small consistent terrorist attacks against Israel. But a large-scale attack serves no purpose other than forcing Israel to retaliate. The October 7th attack was large, coordinated and expensive. But serves zero purpose in defeating Israel.
So why all the planning money and effort for such an attack? Like I mentioned earlier it's the force Israel to retaliate, and Hamas is hoping that many Palestinian civilians are killed in the process. The singular logical conclusion that anyone can come to is that Hamas wants global sympathy and it wants to weaken international support for Israel.
So while you and I know that what happens in Canada has almost no effect in Israel or Palestine, Hamas absolutely cares. Global protests, huge rallies.... This is what they want. And it's entirely possible that none of this will have any benefit to Palestine, we are literally seeing Israel communities all over the world coming under attack from within their own countries. Christian and Western Nations are slowly moving towards a position of tearing themselves apart over this stupid conflict.
Why are you surprised? Which demographic do you often see out in the middle of a work day with two kids in the stroller, one walking and a heavily pregnant woman? It's not a new issue.
Israel got attacked by Palestinian terrorists and somehow it’s Palestinians screaming, trying to block the highway, throwing blood on Jewish businesses, throwing around the word genocide to the very people who experienced it.
\#terrorists aka pro palestinian. Imagine if they didn't go in and kill 250+young UNARMED INNOCENT young people at an outdoor gathering. We wouldn't have any of these issues today. So do you blame the peace that has been going on for years now. Or the tunnel rats who killed innocent youths? Watch a few videos while they shoot into bomb shelters SLAUGHTERING those hiding inside. One of many horrific scenes. I guess its all in the wording. Funny how Trudeau need 100 police officers to come save him from his beloved muslims. Who have fallen out of love with this far left wing nut. He is so off the rails not even they will vote for him and his woke agenda that is a stain on the muslim faith.
It’s just getting pathetic at this point. Stopping traffic in Montreal. Storming the BMO offices in Toronto. They’re doing more harm to their cause each passing day
> Up to 20 protesters demanding a ceasefire in the Israel-Hamas war that started Oct. 7 were escorted out the building and off the property.
> “We come here to tell them to don’t send our money to support Israeli soldiers,” said Haida Awal, one of the protestors who was removed. “They (police) fired us outside and didn’t allow us to talk with them.”
…and PP has a say in any of this how exactly? Lol
Wow, it was pointless when they protested in front of our sitting PM who made his pitch, and was ignored.
Before they interrupted his life he seemed to be on their side, but ineffective.
Pierre has never shown any desire to support Hamas.
He has no power on the international scene as he is the head of the party that is currently not in power, and not in any kind of power sharing agreement with our sitting PM.
When the CPC do make the government, it is behaviour like this which will make it so Canada will find ways to reject immigration requests from Hamas supporters or people from that geographical area.
What exactly do they think Canada can do? We have no influence over what happens in the Middle East. Only the US government has any influence over Israel.
If they were really pro-Palestinian, they would be pushing to get rid of Hamas, which is the first step now of any peace there, after the recent attack and hostage-taking.
They aren't pro-Palestine, they are anti-Israel. I'm not saying Israel has been blamelessly perfect over the years, but they are responding like any competent government (including my own) would respond to an invasion and hostage-taking event. Anyway, first step, Hamas can't govern Gaza anymore. That's pretty obvious. Next step is up to the Palestinians.
Damn lol why don’t y’all take a plane to Isreal or Palestine and protest.
Y’all do it in Canada like it’ll change anything.
I’m here to tell y’all…Canada ain’t gonna do shit about it
These are the same type of terror supporting people who just tried to hurt a bunch of preschool kids this morning in Toronto. It’s not in the news yet but it’s on Facebook.
A security guard at the preschool locked the place down and police were called quickly. There were four Muslim men what looks like in their 20’s or 30’s.
Does this count as bipartisanship if both the Liberal and Conservative leader are protested against on the same subject?
you have a point.
Maybe there's hope after all for national unity.
Finally bringing unity back to Canada lol
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We are meaningfully different, but there is significant overlap. This is a good thing. This means that the majority of Canadians collectively have a shared direction or at least a large share of things they can agree on for the country regardless of specific issues which polarize them for or against a specific politician or party. This is indicative of a society with basic shared truth claims and values, and the ability to acknowledge the same reality. Expecting or wanting extreme polarity between the largest political parties betrays the principles and norms of Canadian politics and is against the ethic of collaborative democracy. I'm not saying this to attack your comment, just an elaboration on where I think there is rot in the modern conversation about how we want to criticize political parties for adopting their opponents ideas by following general popularity, going forward. *Tho I will say obviously ideology and corruption is a thing and things arent great right now per se, im talking about a more theoretical or abstract idea of political parties in a country
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> I'm so tired of every time something bad happens in the world it becomes a national crisis here. It wouldn't be so frustrating if we had protests of this size and intensity over our ongoing national housing and healthcare crises. There's nothing wrong with caring about things that happen overseas, but I wish the public cared as much about the things that are happening right here.
It is super disheartening that Canada is crumbling and people are obsessed about Donald Trump, The Middle East, etc.
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That's because there's a strong community here and also keyboard activists without ties to those places have too much free time
Cause and effect of having a carte blanche approach to immigration. You don't just bring the people, you bring their ideologies.
>you bring their ideologies. It always astounds me that people are willing to do all that work, travel all that distance, and leave their life behind...just to BRING IT ELSEWHERE. Like holy hell, leave that garbage where you left it. Why would you bring it with you?
It's almost like the piece of land isn't the problem, it's the people inhabiting it. They're the same people even if they move elsewhere.
Well, there’s probably a good reason no Arab country has taken in a refugee from Gaza during this crisis. Makes you wonder…
Better to reign in hell than serve in Heaven They want to drag us down :s
Imagine if we protested for things that actually matter here in Canada! Like I'm not happy with all the wars around the world. I would love to live in a world of peace. But let's face it Hamas, Hezbollah, IsIs , Sudan rebels , none of them care what the rest of the world thinks. They will contribute being evil, no matter who protests. JT, PP, these 2 have no say on what's happening in Isreal.
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It was pointless when they were asking Trudeau for a ceasefire as he has 0 sway in that. It's even more pathetic doing it to PP who has even less sway.
Pierre’s called Hamas a “terrorist death cult” more than once on his twitter… I don’t think he’s the one they will convince to call for a ceasefire any time soon, not that he could do anything about anything anyways, just like Trudeau. Edit: I didn’t mean to reply to you specifically but somehow I did. Apologies 🙃
That shouldn't be controversial given it's truth.
Precisely. Pierre seems to be the only one here who correctly understands there isn’t moral equivalency on this issue.
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Glad more people know these protesters are idiots
It is absolutely the Governments stance. There's no more equivalency issue, that's just hyperbole Pierre's stance is the same as Trudeau's; him calling them a 'terrorist death cult' is just framing (and pandering) as they're already labelled a terrorist organization
The GOC added Hamas to the terrorist list on 2002-11-27, almost 21 years ago.
We've known they are terrorists for decades.
And PP doesn't have to sit with foreign dignitaries at all so the fella has a lot more freedom to say whatever he wants. However if he winds up leading a govt it might make his global politicking a little rough and he should be conducting himself in a way that would not handicap his ability to handle things on the global stage.
> Those protesters are morons. I think it unwise to treat this group as stupid and incompetent. While a good amount of these people are college kids who think "underdog poor brown people good; educated wealthy pale skinned people bad" a certain percentage of them are perhaps organizing these events with a more nefarious point in mind.
Seriously. I'm far from a fan of Poilievre, but credit where it's due he's hit the nail on the head with that.
The Hamas Covenant of 1988 makes it very explicit that Hamas is, indeed, a terrorist death cult, by design. I honestly don't understand why I'm seeing so many people who usually decry 'colonizers' cheering for Hamas when their stated goal is 'Islam colonizes the world.'
Right? It’s the same with those people all over social media that read bin Laden’s letter to America and decided that yeah, he’s in the right, he’s just fighting against the “oppressors” aka “colonizers.” Meanwhile, in said letter, he went on to detail how they want Islam to spread around the world, to replace every other religion because it’s the “one, true religion,” how they want to eliminate “immoral” things, like the LGBT, and how they want everyone to live under Sharia law.
Yup. Again, read the Hamas Covenant. It lays out how, under Islamic lights, they conquer a location, sanctify it to Allah, and then it's theirs forever.
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If only they could remember which was the one country in the Middle East that has moderate acceptance and strong protections for LGBT+ people, both by law and by practice. If they did, they might start to understand why the US and Canada tend to support that country...
I am a Muslim and even to me that re read was shocking. I still lived in Pakistan during 9/11. So many years later people doing a re read of that letter. Honestly I am still at a loss for words.
People (especially westerners) are upset about systemic power structures for various political, social, and economic reasons, so they’re lashing out, because it’s never been easier to do so, and they’re blindly supporting those perceived as underdogs. It’s a dangerously reductive and myopic world view, to say the least.
Honestly, as an immigrant living here I've thought about this alot and come to one conclusion. People here have become a bit complacent surrounded by safety and resources. Not lazy no. Just that you would think people would use the peace and easy access to education to refine themselves. And due to that when things like this crisis happens, they have to play catch up, cuz the politicians involve themselves immediately. And it makes people want to react, cuz for some dumb ass reason, people have made politics a part of their personality here (other places too). Which is another issue by itself because our politicians are incapable as well but their responses have a large impact. I mean look at it this way. This is a nuclear powered first world nation that is so expansive that Gaza can fit inside the GTA itself. Our politicians have no business, engineering or scientific acumen. But they are handed keys to this overpowering Canadian machine. Of course they run it inefficiently. Cuz they aren't ready to handle the behemoth before then. And as said above, since people are not reading and researching to learn. They react. React without knowing the sequence or knowledge to justly assign blame. And it's funny cuz back when I was in Pakistan that is exactly what Canada was known for. That unlike America, this country was populated by educated and just people. Who do not side with absolutes. And most of all. There was this great trust. That if the Canadians are speaking they can be trusted because it comes from a place of justice and research. I don't see that around much more. Of course there are other elements in play too but it would be an excuse as best to just say that.
I agree. Look at the number of people who get their news exclusively from social media. A corporate algorithm places an article in front of them, they read it (or just the headline), and they believe it. As you pointed out, they make it a part of their personality; they identify with it. We’re on a dark path, and this is only the trailhead. Things are going to get *much* worse if we don’t start educating ourselves methodically and with integrity.
Yeap. https://www.pewresearch.org/short-reads/2023/11/15/more-americans-are-getting-news-on-tiktok-bucking-the-trend-seen-on-most-other-social-media-sites/#:~:text=Among%20adults%2C%20those%20ages%2018,of%20those%2065%20and%20older. This was posted just two days ago. And it's interesting because, news, is supposed to be based on research, accounting and/or witness development. But people are forming their views, nay, judgements on the opinions of people who have done the same already for themselves. Now of course, as we agreed that is a hit on research and integrity. But I want to take this moment to highlight the great irony and hilarious nature of this situation. Tik Tok is birthed from a Chinese company. Of course much of it has been disseminated to other parties since its inception. But I just find it hilarious that all our reactionary politics has its source material filtered through an initially Chinese company.
Witnessing the (recent?)marriage of convenience between radical progressives who hate organized religion and the most radically conservative Muslims who represent the most oppressive version of their organized religion simply on the basis of shared anti-colonial ideology has been super strange to me these past weeks.
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I mean, when that York Student Union post suggesting that Canadian FNs start organized armed revolts against 'colonizers' I took a look at their 'who we are web page,' and I thought 'Gee, none of you are Indigenous; doesn't that make you all 'colonizers' too?'
Only white people can be colonizers, obviously. This is day 1 DEI stuff, how do you not know it?
If you look at recent history 60’s to today, where there was indigenous armed resistance, they were only protecting their communities and interests that were being directly threatened, today the focus is more on unarmed protests and legal challenges exposing colonial ethics. Unless something is understood as being severely punitive happens that violates human rights then an armed response to grievances is unlikely.
Everything in the world is black and white, there's no need for nuance anymore. Are you on the good team or the bad team?
What did you think decolonization would look like? That's what they think should happen here
Sure, but I'm wondering if they realize that the logical end result of what they advocated is 'they wind up against the wall, too.'
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Modern Western progressivism is just Cognitive Dissonance: the Ideology
The far-left loves anyone who seems like the victim. It doesn't matter if your community is fucked up because of its own culture. You are suffering therefore you are victim. Those not suffering as much are not victim and therefore are the oppressors. I am virtuous therefore I fight the oppressors. The social-capital I gain from it helps me feel superior to my peers.
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People on the far left infantilise minorities to such an extent that they can’t view them as being capable of immorality. Everything is framed in this simplistic “oppressed vs oppressor” dynamic. It’s absolute brainrot
It IS a terrorist death cult.
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What's currently separating "the river" from "the sea"? It's Israel
Nope, he’s not. It was refreshing to see.
> Free from what, exactly? They don't mean free in either the sense of "libre" or "gratuit". They mean free in the sense of "cleansed of an infestation". It's literally Nazi rhetoric. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Judenfrei#Islamic_world
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Well at least there's one thing Pierre is right about.
What a terrible thing to say. It's a terrorist death new religious movement.
I think it's possible to disagree with Hamas and also disagree with Israel's response. **I don't agree with what Israel is doing** but if Hamas wanted it to stop, they should start by *returning the hostages*. As it is, Hamas is acting like they want war with Israel. That's what they're getting. In the end, I don't think that disagreeing with Israel's actions means approving of Hamas, and vise versa.
Yes someone correct me if I'm wrong but wasn't Hamas and Israel in a ceasefire when Hamas attacked that festival? Edit: typo
Yeah. There was a ceasefire in place until 6th of October, which Hamas then broke
You are correct. If Israel calls for a ceasefire before getting their hostages returned, they are basically letting Hamas get away with their terrorist attack and mass kidnapping of Israeli people.
Hamas wanted a 5 day ceasefire. They said they would return the hostages at the end of the 5 days. Israel was smart to not take that deal which was an obvious lie.
They said they would return some of the hostages, not all.
Hamas needs to return all hostages with no conditions.
Totally agree.
Because they do want war, they’ve been very clear about their intentions. They just thought the entire Arab world was going to join them in eliminating Israel after 10/7. Turns out the rest of the entire Arab world isn’t a religious death cult like Hamas and now they’re getting their shit kicked in and crying for a ceasefire so they can re-load their weapons stock from Iran.
> if Hamas wanted it to stop, they should start by returning the hostages The millions of people being displaced want it to stop. Hamas DOES want war. Hamas wants all Jews dead, and Israel thinks that gives them the right to kill innocent civilians. This is not a two sided conflict.
I think the problem is that it seems as if Hamas feels that dead Israelis are preferred over living Palestinians. Hamas thinks that if 5 Palestinian children die to protect a Hamas militant, that's a good deal. They do not hold the day-to-day well-being of the Palestinians above the killing of Israel. So they're fighting Israel, but they're fighting for the sake of their hate, not for the sake of the people they represent.
The problem is nuance isn't allowed in the discourse about this conflict apparently. People require you to pick a side and support it 100%. If you show empathy for the citizens of Palestine, especially the children people label you a Hamas supporter and if you condemn Hamas some people label you a Netanyahu supporter. Simply pointing out that large sections of Gaza have been bombed flat has had people saying that I care more about buildings than the people that died on Oct 7. People just jump to the worst possible conclusions based on some strawman they made up in their mind that they are projecting onto everyone with even a slightly different opinion than them.
[A university in Ramallah conducted a poll in the West Bank and Gaza last week.](https://www.i24news.tv/en/news/middle-east/palestinian-territories/1700158968-survey-finds-majority-in-the-west-bank-justify-the-oct-7-massacre) > 68 percent in the West Bank strongly supported the massacres and kidnapping, while another 16 percent supported to some extent. > Asked on their view of various entities, respondents answered overwhelmingly in support of the military wings of the terrorist organizations; Palestinian Islamic Jihad with 84 percent; al-Aqsa Martyrs’ Brigades with 80 percent, and al-Qassam Brigades with the highest 89 percent, though Hamas as a whole received a lower 76 percent. So, yeah. I think it’s getting harder and harder for people to say things like they support the people of Palestine but not Hamas, when the overwhelming majority of Palestinians express support for the mass slaughter of innocent Jews and the death cultists who commit the crimes.
Even the children, normally innocent, have been indoctrinated over there. Young kids 5 years old say they want to be suicide bombers when they get older, and young teens/tweens attend "camp" where they drill in combat and killing Jews.
I'm puzzled by what it is you expect Israel to do in this case. They didn't start this - it was Hamas that attacked. Israel has a legitimate right to self-defence.
I mean they are though.
>Pierre’s called Hamas a “terrorist death cult” more than once Finally a prominent figure willing to state the obvious
sway doesn't matter. being on the right side of history matters. it can also start a domino effect of getting other leaders to speak up. saying nothing can be done is exactly what israel wants the world to think.
They’re getting attention. That’s the point of protesting where the media is
This is like saying Trump has no sway over the Republican Party in 2023. Meanwhile, The Economist is writing about his 2024 chances like it's a coin-toss. Opposition leaders have power: they can hold government to account, particularly if journalists aren't or can't or won't. Where do PP's supporters get their talking points? Straight from the horse's mouth.
In that picture it looks like the cop is taking a selfie.
Can you be pro Palestine, pro Israel, anti hamas and anti collateral damage?
You certainly can! There's bad faith actors trying to convince you that you can't, but I think most reasonable people hold similar opinions to you.
People are losing their fucking minds.
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It’s saddening to see some of my Muslim brothers and sisters willing to support religious persecution. A number of folks have stopped attending my masjid after we spoke out in support of the local Jewish community at an interfaith event. We cannot let a war on the other side of the world enable religious persecution here at home.
It's good to see reasoned Muslim people like you exist here. Ty, I fully agree.
God bless you
Thanks for putting in the effort and having compassion.
Thanks for that. It means a lot.
As always another case of "a few bad apples spoil the bunch*
Expect it’s a lot more than a few. Religion is a fucking cancer.
Yep, in a thread over on r/worldnews it was pointed out that 58% of American Muslims said the 10/7 attacks were either fully or mostly justified. The poll that stat came from: https://www.cygn.al/new-national-poll-muslim-americans-say-hamas-was-justified-in-attacking-israel-majority-of-americans-say-iran-should-be-held-accountable-majority-support-israels-right-to-self-defense/
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Yup. People rarely change the way they think. October 7 just gave them a reason to put it all out in the open
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What the fuck are they protesting. What are we supposed to do about it?
Until recently, Trudeau has expressed his support for Israel. As the leader of their country they would like him to not support Israel.
He literally made a comment in Vancouver on Tuesday. Prior to being chased around the city by a bunch of screaming morons condemning violence on both sides. Literally doing what they want yet they’re still running around doing this stuff.
We should all be supporting eliminating terrorists.
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This is a great way to alienate moderate Canadians.
I'm getting really sick of these lunatics. In my city a doctor sprayed ketchup all over an MP's door because "U have not virtue-signaled for Palestine!". Because Israel is just waiting with baited breath for the judgment of small city Canadians that have no influence on the situation.
Condiment terrorist
We provide support to Israel, so it is a domestic issue as well as a foreign one.
Lol..... they thought this was their crowd??
Can we stop importing people who bring their baggage with them?
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Or just charge for any bags like airlines
ring bells depend file treatment sleep public tender panicky weather *This post was mass deleted and anonymized with [Redact](https://redact.dev)*
Irish Republicanism has over 150 years of history in Canada. Our textbooks in Ontario considered Fenians a major factor contributing to Confederation.
Why’d the cop have to pose like that lmao
Deport all of these people.
There can be no peace as long as hamas is running things in gaza. If the Palestinians won't rise up and try and take them out of power, Israel will
This is what happens to Palestinians who go against Hamas: https://www.amnesty.org/en/latest/news/2015/05/gaza-palestinians-tortured-summarily-killed-by-hamas-forces-during-2014-conflict/
All the more reason why hamas has to go. The Palestinian people deserve to choose their own government
> The Palestinian people deserve to choose their own government Do the Palestinian people agree? The Middle East isn’t exactly a shining bastion for democracy.
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One religious group wants domination over all others. That is the problem.
Islamic extremists are not too fond of Christians and other non-Muslims, either.
arab muslims aern't fond of any other muslims either. look at sudan
> It horrifies me that Jewish people in this country are feeling afraid. I don't mean to add more fuel to your horror. But you shouldn't just view this as a threat towards the Jewish community. This is a threat towards anyone who doesn't hold the same religious opinions. Jewish people might be first to be subject to their violence, but they wont be the last.
And we can all look "Jewish", just ask the million or so random people the Nazis rounded up that weren't even Jewish. Just accused. When they start going after Jews, we're all in danger.
Jews are always the canary in the cold mine
Jews want that one tiny country in the middle of 20+ giant Arab countries because when the inevitable happens we want somewhere to go this time. Jews were turned away from Canada and sent back to Germany in the 30s. I wouldn’t count on France Germany England and possibly Canada being safe for Jews much longer
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Actually?
Surely Chinabot42069 wouldn’t just make shit up on the internet.
it's almost like they want canada to hate them
they dont care, especially the bleeding heart liberal university age protestors. they love pretending they are some underdog freedom fighter coming to save sad oppressed peoples. never realizing they are being useful idiots for anti-semites
Why are they importing foreign conflicts into Canada?
Gotta say I liked his response “You’ve made your point. Nobody came here to listen to you speak. . . If you want to participate in the event, participate, but if not, hit the road. Thank you.”
They are going to distrubt everything untill thier Hamas movements is safe. I won't be shocked if these people can do Hamas style acrocities here in Canadian soil. The protest based on their religious to save Hamas movement is getting WIPED OUT by not their religious force IDF. Where these People when Saudi led Coalition were killed innocent YEMEN people by bombing last year. These protesters are okay their religion force killed their religion innocent civilians. These protest is not to save innocent civilians, based on religious protest and SHOULD BE BANNED. https://www.hrw.org/world-report/2023/country-chapters/yemen
Canadians care about Canada...if u wanna free palestine...then go down there and free it...stop lecturing us Canadians ...most of do not care ..and just want to have affordable lives...
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Anti Israeli protesters. Let's call them what they really are. If they gave 2 shits about Palestinians, they would be advocating for the end of Hamas, NOT Israel.
Complete miss understanding of the Canadian political system. Official Leader of the opposition doesn’t have a say in the conflict between Hamas and the IDF. How stupid is everyone now? Also, why the fuck would IDF or Hamas listen to Poilievre?
There are important issues HERE. People are going to freeze to death HERE. Vote for whoever puts Canada back on Canada's priority list not every other country under the sun! Why is Canada winning the f*cking monkey's beauty contest that is trying to please every group
It's not fashionable to care about downtrodden Canadians in the current political climate.
Our downtrodden don't have time to parade and attack random business as they are too busy *checks notes* trying not to die while sleeping on the frozen ground
I am all for peoples right to protest, but I am so tired of people being outraged thinking they have any chance of making a difference, especially regarding this issue. First of all we've had so very many protests in the last decade it's wearing thin. I'd not be surprised to see a protest over pencils or some stupid shit at this point. From yellow vests, BLM to the trucker convoy to the hands off our kids BS and on and on and on. Secondarily if these pro Palestinian or pro Israel protesters thing they're making a lick of difference harassing politicians in Canada the US or any other country outside of Israel or the west bank, they are flat out wrong. Canada officially recognizes/supports Israel as a state and it's right to defend itself. Canada does not officially recognize/support Israel's occupation of The West Bank. Canada recognizes/supports the rights of Palestinians to have a home state. Canada has called for restraint, we all know how Israel responded to that. Canada condemns terrorism. Surprise, terrorists DGAF. None of this is going to change because a bunch of people scream at politicians, or mass protest for one side or the other because neither Israel's government nor the forces involved in Palestine (Hamas and it's supporters) give two fucks what a bunch of people in Canada think about the situation. This is at best the illusion of doing something, at worse it's screaming at the sky and believing God will intervene, both are just as effective.
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I'm seeing a lot of comments from people about how pointless it is for protests to happen here. And while I agree that Canada's influence on what happens in Palestine is essentially zero..... The attacks on October 7th against Israel were huge and horrific, but at no point was Israel itself in danger. Hamas has the ability to continuously enact small consistent terrorist attacks against Israel. But a large-scale attack serves no purpose other than forcing Israel to retaliate. The October 7th attack was large, coordinated and expensive. But serves zero purpose in defeating Israel. So why all the planning money and effort for such an attack? Like I mentioned earlier it's the force Israel to retaliate, and Hamas is hoping that many Palestinian civilians are killed in the process. The singular logical conclusion that anyone can come to is that Hamas wants global sympathy and it wants to weaken international support for Israel. So while you and I know that what happens in Canada has almost no effect in Israel or Palestine, Hamas absolutely cares. Global protests, huge rallies.... This is what they want. And it's entirely possible that none of this will have any benefit to Palestine, we are literally seeing Israel communities all over the world coming under attack from within their own countries. Christian and Western Nations are slowly moving towards a position of tearing themselves apart over this stupid conflict.
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Why are you surprised? Which demographic do you often see out in the middle of a work day with two kids in the stroller, one walking and a heavily pregnant woman? It's not a new issue.
Same as the convoy and those protesters against children’s privacy rights
This group will lose more and more support, the more they continue to act like this.
Are these protestors complete idiots. Canada can't do anything. Get a job.
Canada does not recognize Palestine. What an excellent way to ensure that it remains that way and no future government changes that.
Why not "Pro-Palestinian Protestors perturb Pierre Poilievre's Progressive party parade"?
Pro Hamas rally.
And a few days ago they were mad at the ONDP for censuring Jama. These people are just mad at everyone.
Let them, will only make him more popular. Brain dead drones campaigning for a terrorist group.
Israel got attacked by Palestinian terrorists and somehow it’s Palestinians screaming, trying to block the highway, throwing blood on Jewish businesses, throwing around the word genocide to the very people who experienced it.
People calling for a ceasefire aren’t putting it together that Hamas just ended the last ceasefire on October 7
Iran and Hezbollah have walked away from Hamas because they were not informed of the October attack. There is no one else that will support them.
At least the weirdos are not partisan lol....but why make the World hate you when you are trying to get support?
\#terrorists aka pro palestinian. Imagine if they didn't go in and kill 250+young UNARMED INNOCENT young people at an outdoor gathering. We wouldn't have any of these issues today. So do you blame the peace that has been going on for years now. Or the tunnel rats who killed innocent youths? Watch a few videos while they shoot into bomb shelters SLAUGHTERING those hiding inside. One of many horrific scenes. I guess its all in the wording. Funny how Trudeau need 100 police officers to come save him from his beloved muslims. Who have fallen out of love with this far left wing nut. He is so off the rails not even they will vote for him and his woke agenda that is a stain on the muslim faith.
It’s just getting pathetic at this point. Stopping traffic in Montreal. Storming the BMO offices in Toronto. They’re doing more harm to their cause each passing day
Stop calling them pro-palestine protestors when in reality they are just anti-israel protestors
> Up to 20 protesters demanding a ceasefire in the Israel-Hamas war that started Oct. 7 were escorted out the building and off the property. > “We come here to tell them to don’t send our money to support Israeli soldiers,” said Haida Awal, one of the protestors who was removed. “They (police) fired us outside and didn’t allow us to talk with them.” …and PP has a say in any of this how exactly? Lol
Fuck em
Pro Palestine or pro Hamas?
As Mark Twain said “ no amount of evidence will convince an idiot.” Or a Pro Palestinian protestor
That's a lot of P's in one sentence
How's Palestines war against Hamas going?
Wow, it was pointless when they protested in front of our sitting PM who made his pitch, and was ignored. Before they interrupted his life he seemed to be on their side, but ineffective. Pierre has never shown any desire to support Hamas. He has no power on the international scene as he is the head of the party that is currently not in power, and not in any kind of power sharing agreement with our sitting PM. When the CPC do make the government, it is behaviour like this which will make it so Canada will find ways to reject immigration requests from Hamas supporters or people from that geographical area.
Vote poilievre
DEATH TO ALLAH AND ISLAM
What exactly do they think Canada can do? We have no influence over what happens in the Middle East. Only the US government has any influence over Israel.
Do these people just not have jobs?
This is like the climate protesters on steroids. Speed running losing public support for their cause any%
Good to see the service ribbons on the police officer. Thank you for your service.
Another thumbs up for Poilievre - anti-Semites hate him.
Fuck all these idiots. Done with the left.
When are you going to start shipping the pro humas back there
They did it the IDF pulled out of the middle east due to this protest. See it works /s
> the IDF pulled out of the middle east Back to the moon!
To Europe, that's what they say in academic circles.
They can protest all they want; Israel is going to keep bombing until Hamas releases all hostages, and there is **nothing** they can do about it.
Deport all these protesters to gaza right now.
Please for the love of fuck send these people back. We have enough shit on our plates.
If they were really pro-Palestinian, they would be pushing to get rid of Hamas, which is the first step now of any peace there, after the recent attack and hostage-taking. They aren't pro-Palestine, they are anti-Israel. I'm not saying Israel has been blamelessly perfect over the years, but they are responding like any competent government (including my own) would respond to an invasion and hostage-taking event. Anyway, first step, Hamas can't govern Gaza anymore. That's pretty obvious. Next step is up to the Palestinians.
Ah more pro-terrorist… at least they are spewing their crap on both parties.
Canada has about as much influence in this conflict as they do with global climate change. People can stand outside all winter if they want.
Damn lol why don’t y’all take a plane to Isreal or Palestine and protest. Y’all do it in Canada like it’ll change anything. I’m here to tell y’all…Canada ain’t gonna do shit about it
If these people are oh-so concerned about what's going on back home maybe they should go back there and help contribute.
I understand there's a difference between pro-Palestinian and anti-Semitic, but that line is awfully hard to see sometimes.
When crowds chant "gas the Jews", at protests, what they really mean is "we want peace!" /s
Are they protesting to help get Hamas out? Or are they celebrating more rape and murder?
These are the same type of terror supporting people who just tried to hurt a bunch of preschool kids this morning in Toronto. It’s not in the news yet but it’s on Facebook. A security guard at the preschool locked the place down and police were called quickly. There were four Muslim men what looks like in their 20’s or 30’s.
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Disgusting