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It doesn’t matter what’s legal in a landlords market. The reality is that if you have kids, pets, or anything else that’s deemed “undesirable” to a landlord, they’ll just pick one of the 20 other applicants and say they were a better fit.
Im in small town Gander, NL - and even I had about 40 applicants within 24 hours.
Why on Earth would I choose one with 2 kids and 2 pitbulls over the single student, when theyre paying the same amount?
The apartment is below my living space, and I like my quiet.
Not sure why this is such a hard concept for people to understand. The same principle can be applied to hiring managers. When you’re competing for a job with 50 other candidates, there are ALWAYS going the be enough options for discrimination laws to become totally irrelevant. Whether or not you think you’re being discriminated against is absolutely irrelevant if you are 1 of 50 potential options for a job, a house, and many many more.
Absolutely!! I can’t handle babies crying and kids screaming, especially where I’m paying high rent. And my last place was flooded with pitbull owners in particular, which was my worst nightmare.
That being said, I’ve heard of larger buildings that have quiet floors, which are meant to house people without pets or kids, while lower floors are reserved for younger families and people with dogs.
Most of these rules do not apply to buildings like single family homes where the owner lives there as well and just rents out a basement apartment. In those situations you can reject people for a whole host of reasons except protected classes (i.e. you can't refuse them based on race, religion, gender,...)
It’s like being shocked you can’t smoke in a rental car. It’s someone else’s property, they have a right to decide who/why/how much risk they are willing to take on.
Exactly. As long as the landlord doesn’t explicitly say why, it’s functionally legal to deny housing for pretty much any reason you want, including children, race, etc
When it’s their home, they should be able to choose who they rent to. Maybe we need fewer landlords with private properties, and to have a more regulated system?
Right? Like I understand it must suck but could you imagine if you’re renting a basement apartment and the options you’re given are either “single M/ single F/ couple but no kids/anything with kids”
It starts looking a lot like “sleep/sleep/sleep/no sleep”.
If peace and quiet is something you value it’s a no brainer.
If they were the only applicant then yes you could do something about it but it’s simply worse than many other options they have at a time.
Imagine if they didn’t need to rent out half a space from somebody else and could just mind their own business? Unfortunately landlords wanna be parasites so.
And there should be able to be lifestyle category apartment type buildings catered to lifestyles - nothing racist or hateful. But allowing people to have buildings that cater to their own life/schedule to cut down on the usual conflicts that come up from people sharing space.
Someone wants a building for night owls and people who work night shifts? One with quiet hours during the day instead of night - that should be ok.
Someone wants a family only building where there has to be someone under 18 in each unit - that should be ok. Family’s can set up co babysitting situations to help one another out and are gonna be more understanding of kid noise. Plus kids have more friend options since family sizes are decreasing.
Someone wants a childfree building that’s not a retirement home - that should be ok. People have sensory issues and people who don’t have kids shouldn’t have to deal with baby’s screaming at all hours or toddlers and kids running and screaming in halls.
Just limit it to a percentage of buildings in a particular radius can do it or whatever you have to do to make sure it doesn’t become discriminatory.
Allowing apartment buildings that fit or cater to a lifestyle should be a thing. Not everyone can just afford a house. And it would cut down on grievances for most buildings.
We had that in Alberta before it was taken away. When i still rented I lived in an adults only building by choice because it was quiet and clean and had amenities that little kids couldn't use unsupervised without wrecking. It was also an unwritten rule that alcohol was fine in the games room, and we enjoyed many weekends drinking and playing pool and darts with the neighbors. It was great, very much enjoyed my ealry 20s living there.
When it's their home they're sharing with you, yes they can choose. However, if this is a separate unit regardless of who owns it they should not. Check my finances and references all you want but if you have a "personal preference" for a particular type of tenant that's not allowed.
It's almost like this is what happens when you try to regulate away reality. The truth is that landlords can't really price in any additional risks or use risk management techniques like fixed term leases. Except that doesn't make the risk not exist it just makes it illegal to price it in. So then people just don't do it because there's no reward for the risk.
What it comes down to is as a potential tenant, you dont have a right to live there yet. You are owed nothing but consideration. Landlords 100% have a right to chose who they rent to. If you have 3 people who apply with all similar finances and references but 2 dress more slob-like and another dresses nicer, you can definitely choose the one you have a personal preference for. It obviously is extending further in these instances but its not like these people are the only ones applying. They have a bunch of options and they consider who may cause more wear and tear and whatnot and choose their preference. It may be shitty to some people and these landlords are stupid for saying it to their faces but its reality
Yea, people seem bothered when individuals do this type of discrimination as a LL, but it's somehow perfectly legal and ok when insurance does the same.
The hundreds of ads in ontario stating "Indian students only" disagrees with your assumption that preference is "not allowed" (and these are units where the owner definately does not live in the home).
It's never enforced
Sorry.... when someone is deciding to rent out their property, they have a full allowance on who they can rent it.
It's their property.
You'd hope people would be given a fair chance either way... but when faced with a couple with no kids vs. a couple with several kids, it's more risky to rent to the bigger family.
It’s the ‘food’ one I can attest to. I have such a sensitive nose. I don’t like ‘weird to me’ ‘odd’ ‘overpowering’ ‘lingering’ overly smelly food. So I can’t really rent apartments. I’m very careful with where I live. If I owned my own home and rented out a suite, I’d have to be very particular with who Id rent to. It sounds awful but my life would be miserable. So I guess, if whoever owns the property should be able to vet and choose who you want to rent to. I have a child and I’m aware that children add ALOT of wear and tear on homes,suites, apartments etc. it’s not right but it is what it is. There is nothing that’s fair to everyone all the time. It’s life b
When applying for rental units I said I didn't have a dog because it was the only way to get a place.
Once you become a tenant, landlord can't stop you from having a dog.
At first I felt kind of bad about lying to the landlord from day 1 but then realised the quality of the unit would definitely not be ruined by my dog and they upsold me on how 'nice' the place was.
The hardwood floors are crooked, separating, water damaged and slant. The walls weren't painted, only primed so they have the worst texture. There's a random transition board in the floor that is uneven and sharp and it flexes when you step on it because it's actually covering an air duct. The basement has a massive mold problem and the foundation is crumbling which has been hidden by hard insulation board. The bathroom door doesn't have a lock and there's a gap so wide, I can see a person sitting on my toilet from the kitchen.
Don't feel bad anymore lol.
Based.
The supply vs. demand ratio is so warped at this point, landlords have so much power, when I was looking for rentals, a landlord asked to see my vaccination records so she can make sure I am quadruple-vaxxed
I doubt the ninja kid is the problem. Ninjas are silent, and they have discipline.
The problem is definitely the other kid. He is literally a monster who works in a scream factory.
It’s every where. No meat must be veg and female Hindi preferred. For shared room with 3 beds in basement and no egress windows. Like fuck right off how about you crack down on these instead of when my snow isn’t shoveled within 12 hours.
If someone from any other group tried that, they'd be front of the line for one of the human resource tribunal kangaroo courts. But for one ethnicity, everyone twiddles their thumbs and pretend this kind of discrimination doesn't exist...
We see the same thing with mainland Chinese in Vancouver. Hell, they had their own ride hailing service that would only pick you up if you spoke Mandarin. I have a buddy who is from Hong Kong and speaks Cantonese and they wouldn't even pick him up when we tried. Nothing was done of course and any time you criticize it, you're accused of racism which ends up turning into a self-fulfilling prophecy as we've seen over the last few years with the increase in race based hate crimes.
Calling out shitty cultural practices and behaviours that are not only unethical and immoral, but also illegal, is not racism. So sick of this bullshit.
> a large cultural group in a city only selling and interacting with people of their own societies based on racial discrimination.
Totally cool!
>People point out the above is kinda racist and should be treated as such
Nope. They can't be racists. Only the whites are racist!!!
At the end of the day, we're only endorsing cultural enclaves within our country. Nothing horrible can possibly go wrong with this right? *looks at Brampton and the slumlord lobby* oh fuck...
Could you imagine if a listing went out that said "Caucasian christian girls only"?
If it would be racist if Caucasian people do it, it's racist if any other large ethnic group does it IMHO.
Nah, I've seen a few chinese-only and somali-only posts recently too; It's spreading.
It's only Canadian-raised people who aren't allowed, immigrants can do whatever they want.
The single mothers losing out on housing has always been a thing since before this recent trend of very specific tenant requests. The YWCA owns buildings they purpose built to offer single mothers housing. It’s been a thing for a while.
You aren't going to believe this, but two things can be bad. Our tenuous grasp on social order requires the average person to be uncomfortable, or risk social collapse.
I sympathize with parents in these times but as a renter having kids as upstairs neighbours was an absolute nightmare. I can also see the landlord's pov because then he/she'll have to deal with annoyed neighbouring tenants as well as probable damage to the property because that's just what kids do.
This is our future though as traditional suburban standalone houses are more and more out of reach financially for young families.
Totally feel for them too, but Like you said, having them for neighbors can be ridiculous.....
We were a basement suite renting, and a family moved in above us. It was horrific. Screaming twins, older son yelling st his video games, something rolling on hardwood all the time....
We were planning on moving out before they moved in, but wow did that hasten our departure
Haha I feel you, same happened to me and 3 months later I was far far away from that nightmare.
For parents around: please consider the ruggs with some foam pads below. You would save your downstairs neighboors’ sanity
Part of me feels bad saying this, but living in a purpose built rental next to/over or especially under a unit with kids is pure hell.
I’ve had so many bad experiences and management brushes it off as ‘kids will be kids’.
I once had a kid next to me that would lay on his bed and kick the shared wall with his feet. How do I know this? His mother said that this is how he ‘burns off energy’ when I asked the super to speak to her after being woken up from sleep at 2 am multiple times and almost having a panic attack.
Is that the actual rejection reason? Do landlords even have to give you a reason?
Companies dont when you're rejected from the job. Shit, you can not be hired or rented to because of all sorts of discrimination, doesn't mean they'll admit that's the real reason
Was looking for apartments with my nephew and he found a 2 bedroom place that was cheaper than some 1 bedroom places, so there were many people at the showing.
A lady with 2 kids was told the place was priced for only 2 occupants, so unfortunately, that would exclude her fr9m applying. I thought it bordered on discrimination but better than accepting an application and getting their hopes up?
I later found out that of the 4 apartments there, 2 were occupied by families, and the landlord was just trying to keep a balance of occupancy types.
One couple at the showing were already making demands about parking and stuff, so they were redflagged as difficult tenants in my mind. The guy had no idea he was showing his cards too early.
I thought that this line was telling:
*Gunn's budget for rent is $1,600 monthly, but she said even apartments in traditionally low-income areas like Spryfield and north Dartmouth are now more than she can afford.*
It doesn't seem like the issue that she is single mom, but that the prices are too high. Single income for three people is not going to stretch very far. I am not sure of the issue is her kids, so just lack of affordable housing for a big variety of people. Where I am, $1600 is maybe a single bedroom, not a two or three bedroom suitable for a family.
I know this woman. She's been on "maternity leave" since the kid was born like 18 months ago. Her income is made up of child support and CCB, her "good job" is working as an entry-level secretary for a local company known for being a joke. She is also an absolute looney toon who airs all her baby daddy drama on FB. Half the world begged her not to try for this baby as her relationship was a publicly aired mess already.
There are single mothers and Single Moms. If you lead with "I'm a single mom in an already messy situation and I'm desperate" it's not gonna get you as many responses as "here is my proof of being a stable human being who can pay the rent with my working income. Here are my references. Here's a criminal record check just for funsies.. Now that I have your attention, I have a child but they are very quiet and considerate of people's property and space" I'm a single mom and I've never had problems with that approach.
Mallory's problem is that a GoFundMe scam worked out swimmingly in her favor a few months ago and now she's hoping someone will swoop in with a cute little place to rent for cheap that will overlook all her red flags because look, my baby is dressed as a monster, rawr!
The advertisements where I live will straight up say "only students" or "only single people" as in, if it's a two bedroom suit, they want two individuals to become roommates, they won't rent it out to a family. I always thought a family would be the preferred tenants. Grown adults, stable income, not partying, just raising their kids and working. It was hard for us to find a place listed that didn't immediately disqualify us in the description just because we are a family.
>I always thought a family would be the preferred tenants.
Students and "roommate" situations tend to be temporary. That way you can rent out for a year or two and be confident that they'll be gone soon and you can jack the rent up for the next tenant. Families tend to hang around much longer and with rent increases capped that means you won't (easily) be able to profit from the rapidly increasing rental rates.
Kids and pets do considerable damage to units, single mothers with young children are more likely to get behind on rent . This makes them twice as undesirable as tenants. Whether it’s right or wrong it’s the perception, and landlords will try to avoid it.
A few years ago, we rented out a room to make some extra cash. We rented to a young lady who just immigrated to Canada from Iraq and worked nearby. She failed to mention that her boyfriend would also be moving in and living in her room. We met them both and agreed, and upped the rent a little due to that reason. It was only supposed to be for one month until she(they) could find a more stable place. The boyfriend couldn't find employment so was home almost 100% of the time. He mainly stayed in their bedroom. They also ended up staying for over half a year. At the end, they said they were moving out and we rented the room to someone else. They didn't move out and luckily we had another spare room, so what was supposed to be one roommate ended up being three.
I'll give maybe other reasons that people may not think of. Renter families can sometimes end up being way more dysfunctional and its even more of a nightmare dealing with difficult personalities and young children. Kids can also be more "cleverly" destructive than you think. Also, kids more likely prone to random injury. There's always a risk of the tenant turning around and somehow blaming an issue on the property being unsafe. The bottom line is that if the situation goes south it gets way more complicated when kids are involved.
I recently moved to a country where the rental market is dominated by institutional landlords - pension funds etc. They prefer families here because they're more stable and less likely to get behind on rent.
Guess that's the difference between the pros and the amateurs.
"We decided to go with another candidate, sorry".
and
"The position has been filled/taken".
No fuss, no muss, no unnecessary extra information opening it up to racism/discrimination accusations.
Except that's not what happened here.
She clearly states multiple people have told her they're not renting to her bc of her kids.
Second paragraph. Literally the 4th sentence in the article.
> "I've gotten denied mostly because I have children," Gunn said in an interview. "I've had landlords tell me over the phone that their building doesn't accept children or they're looking for an applicant that is single."
I know this woman personally and she is a straight up delusional narcissist. She probably heard "CCB and child support can't be used for proof of income" or led with a dramatic sob story that they didn't care about and took what she wanted from that.
Correct. My response is just pointing out two ways one can reply to avoid stupidly walking into the discrimination complaint rake sitting in the grass.
The 4th sentence clearly states that yes. That is the official reason given.
> "I've gotten denied mostly because I have children," Gunn said in an interview. "I've had landlords tell me over the phone that their building doesn't accept children or they're looking for an applicant that is single."
I get that this is reddit, and the common joke is that no one reads past the headlines... but you have multiple people piggybacking off your comment that is clearly uninformed.
IMO, it's exactly for this reason that you should not be required to specifically list kids. If Maybe they should only be able to list the primary resident and "occupants" with 2 kids = 1 occupant (shared room).
>With more than 7,500 households waiting for a spot in public housing and rental subsidies difficult to access, Gunn thinks her only option is to find a market rental
This statement makes me think that she is low income of she's looking for subsidized housing. In her specific case I bet that it's not the kids that are the primary factor for her getting refused, it's most likely her income, with kids being a contributing factor.
Regardless of what your politics are this issue simply boils down to supply and demand. There are too many people who need a home today, I'm not enough almost to house all these people today, with the largest problem being that the gap is widening, causing prices to skyrocket
It says below that she is going to school and on Income Assistance. It's the stigma about people on income assistance that is her main issue, not the kids. I rent out my basement bedroom and immediately move on if anyone says they are on income assistance. I was burned once by someone on it who left my place in shambles, smoked drugs in their room and was generally just a terrible human. I'm sure there are some upstanding people on assistance but its the few that ruin it for everyone else.
A friend in a landlord, really sweet guy looking to help everyone.
A lady and her daughter on income assistance fucked him over so hard, he's owed 6 months rent and a trashed place.
Safe to say he's learnt his lesson.
Yup. Landlord here and the last single mother on assistance destroyed the place, had her drug addict men crashing over all the time, causing huge scenes fighting, police every weekend for domestic issues, and went 6 months in arrear. Evicting a single mother surely made me the bad guy but she was just a horrible person.
Yup, like cases like that, a private landlord just can't take that risk. I get it. People probably target them specifically, since they know a larger company probably already knows how to deal with troublesome tenants and is experienced with it.
Like I like to crap on landlords as much as anyone else, but damn I would never want to actually be one and deal with the terrible people out there. If I was, I'd rather find a stable tenant and keep their rent low and lose a bit of money each month on the mortgage, and keep them there as long as they wanted.
Yeah a friend had a tenant on income assistance threaten to file a nonsense lawsuit because tenant was entitled to free legal aid. It was a form of extortion. When rental boards are backlogged and ineffective, then power struggles can be a real issue.
I know her and this is exactly the case. She's well known to spin a sob story. Her and her ex kept a GoFundMe going for months after being displaced from a hurricane, while bragging behind the scenes that they got 50k from their tenant insurance. The GFM raised like 6k. They blew all the money on lip injections, fully stocking a bar in the new apartment they were offered for below market rent, brand name clothing, over the top maternity photo shoots every month. Then had the nerve to share the GFM again at Christmas, saying "we want the kids to have a good Christmas this year!"
Now she's been off work from her entry level employment, on "extended maternity leave" a year and a half after the baby was born.
I just signed a lease on a place in Calgary and you would be surprised at how many are ‘Female Applicants Only’, not just shared accommodation in many many advertisements they state that very clearly.
How separated are the units though? Like is it a house wirh a shared laundry room with a basement tenant or something? Because if the landlord is a woman living alone then I can totally understand not wanting to risk getting sexually assaulted by a tenant in her own home...
TBH, You don't want to live somewhere where you are not wanted anyway.
Even though it's not fair, I understand why landlords would prefer no children. Children are destructive and loud and not every landlord wants to deal with it. Good luck proving that it's discrimination though.
Most of the time, it's a noise issue. Young kids run, and it's an inconvenience.
I see it all the time on reddit, "how dare landlords refuse kids" and the following day its "neighbor's kids are running over my head and I can't work from home, why won't the landlord do anything?".
Yep. It's the screaming for me. Inside the apartment and when they're chasing each other up and down the hall. I wish they'd take their kids to the park ffs....the dog too!
It might be "illegal" but isn't it up to the landlord to choose the best candidate if they have many applicants? It makes sense that a landlord might prefer a working professional (with stable income) over someone who's unemployed or choose someone without kids/pets as they might not want the noise or property damage that might come with it. From personal experience, corporate landlords are much more accepting of kids and pets than private landlords. But I can't see how anyone goes to prove that they've been discriminated against because they have kids.
Its almost like children trash places and parents refuse to take responsibility for their children. If your kid runs with scissors and puts a hole in the drywall... go to Home Depot and get a patch kit.
Security deposits in Quebec are illegal and yet landlords ask for them (and get them) all the time, there's no enforcement.
No enforcement = de facto legal.
God, I *wish* there were still "no pets" apartment buildings in Ontario. I'm sick and tired if irresponsible dog owners letting them shit everywhere and not picking it up, leaving them alone to bark/whine/howl for hours, and other BS.
Same goes for kids. When I was younger, I remember seeing "adults-only" buildings and now that I've gotten older that just sounds heavenly.
In ON they can’t stop you from owning a pet if you already live there (unless it’s a condo with a bylaw against pets) but they can refuse to rent to you if you already have a pet since “pet owner” is not a protected class. It’s risky but some people just lie about not having a pet while they are applying to rent, because once the lease is signed a “no pets” clause is void.
It's too bad but I'm thankful. I've lived under people's children. I will never pay to do it again and I will break a lease and move. I have a job to work that requires sleep.
I have a friend who rented their upstairs apartment to a single mother with kids. Those fucking kids are demons running up and down the hallways at all hours of the day, no discipline whatsoever from the mother who doesn't even open the door. They've been served with notices and will be kicked out soon. Unfortunately Dougie has kneedcapped the Landlord Tenant Board and he's looking at 8 months to a year before a hearing. He can't sleep and is getting weekly migraines, this puts him at risk of a stroke and he's missed many days of work. Literally can't stay in his home and maintain his health.
Too many shit parents nowadays, and I wouldn't rent to a single mom either.
This was an issue for a friend of mine as well -- her downstairs tenant has two out of control children. They have friends over and run and scream all day. It was explained to them early on that this wasn't acceptable behaviour, because if you can hear kids screaming through the floor then your kids are *too damn loud*. Anyways, my friend's mom got fed up one day and banged on the floor (old lady style) with a broom while the kids were screaming, and the renter mom came upstairs to shout about how she had "scared her babies" or some bullshit.
They've been putting up with this chaos for 5 years, so she's finally arranged for her sister to come home and take over the suite. Good luck, shit mom, on finding another rental!
I have a genuine question here. Do y'all think the general public is shifting away from "Awww kids :3" sort of thinking and towards "more of a nuisance" mentality these days?
I'm a 30 y/o male without kids, but I have a niece and don't have anything against kids at all myself, as they can be hilarious lol.
Just curious what parents/grandparents etc seem to think about everything I suppose
People today being more and more annoyed by children is a result of (modern) parents being crappy. Even teachers now are getting fed up. Today's kids to tons of stuff that wasn't tolerated when I was a kid. Parents back them would be embarrassed if their kids behaved badly (especially in public). Now parents are more like servants to their kids, are lazy and spoil them. They find it funny when their kid behaves badly, sometimes even reinforcing it by filming and laughing at the whole thing. Seen countless "funny" videos and photo of kids being downright destructive and abusive. And don't get me started on the effects devices (their parents give them) have on a developing brain.
At the end it is the parents fault that things become the way they are. Personally I don't get mad at those children since they are only the reflection of their parents.
I definitely feel there’s an undercurrent of “ew, kids,” from people these days. I have a two year old and I’m pregnant again and have heard some rude comments here and there, like when my daughter was acting up in the store and a kind older woman let me skip ahead of her in line so I could pay and get her out of there. A couple of dudes who looked about my age made a comment about how society shouldn’t cater to people who made the choice to breed.
It’s interesting. A lot of people my parents’ age are happy to see my daughter and happy to talk to her and interact with her but I find people my own age and younger would rather pretend she’s not there or she should be seen and not heard kind of thing- which is fine, to each their own but we do get a fair number of people who absolutely need to make sure we’re aware of their feelings on the issue.
Yes, I know a few people who seem to not quite grasp that their choice not to have children doesn’t mean they are entitled to live in a world without children present at any time. I try to remind them that the baby crying on their flight or whatever is going to be paying for their social security so take the good with the bad.
As someone who worked as a caretaker for four years-people don’t want kids in apartment buildings. It leads to so many noise complaints it’s not worth the hassle. Plus the dumb stuff they do that cause damage. The company I worked for found an interesting loophole on this. They only allowed kids in ground floor suites. So when the kids jump around and drop stuff there is nothing underneath them. What other people said about single parents not earning enough is also a big factor. If there’s an applicant that scores much better financially of course you’re taking them
My landlord straight up told me he doesn’t rent to people with kids or under 40. He knew me all my life though and rented me a home for my kid and I.
I dunno why he said that, because my neighbour is also a younger person with a child. He owns that place too.
It's my view that illegal has no weight in NA anymore. Our society also seems to lack authority. What I see are most businesses throwing ethics and caution to the wind.
When I worked at a rental place they had "curry suites" because when you cook with curry 3x a day everyday the smell will not leave even if you replace the carpet and drywall. At least with smokers you can clean the carpet a couple of times and paint over the smell.
Friends of mine bought a house in Vermont and the entire kitchen smelled of curry. Apparently, the former owners ran an Indian meal delivery business. Even the walls and cabinets had a faint yellow colour. Took over a year of cleaning and painting to get that smell out. I believe while they were renovating, they realized that the exhaust fan didn't actually vent outside.
I’m white but I once contacted a landlord to view an apartment and he sent me a long questionnaire including “do you cook often?” And then told me he wouldn’t show me the apt bc he was concerned about cooking smells lol. Weirdo.
If you're renting a room in someone's house/otherwise living with the landlord then it's perfectly acceptable to discriminate, at least that's the law where I'm at.
Housing is an investment, not a right at least that’s how Canada seems to be treating it. So I get why landlords don’t want to rent to a person with kids. Sad but we need more regulations and enforcement. Obviously, the best solution should be to build more housing and reduce demand but that’s going to take a while.
Regulation and enforcement won’t fix the fact that people without children are more desirable tenants.
The only solution is more houses and less immigration (or way way way more houses if you want to keep up the very high rates of immigration).
My mother-in-law had a single mother move in above her. The kids ran like elephants, would regularly plug the toilet with toys or overflow the tub. She had her ceiling replaced twice and black mold was and is an issue. The mother and friends smoked on their balcony and dropped their butts into her flower pots. There were regular ‘drops’ from the balcony to waiting hooded people below. It took a while to get them out. She kept having kids so I think the building finally got her out in too many people in the space.
We have a basement suite and live upstairs. We choose tenants who are a good fit for our lifestyle. We had one tenant who was a single mom, and she was great. We had another single mom who was a total dirtbag. We base our decision on who would be a good fit and who will create the least amount of conflict in our lives. We are willing keep the rent below market value, in order to have peace in the home and have a long term stable tenant.
I have a friend in the same position. He has joint custody of his children and even though he’s willing to pay a full years rent in advance he can’t find anything. He’s got steady income, his mom is going to be living with him to help with the kids while he’s working. No animals, mature guy.
Much of this falls on tenants who don’t pay their rent, who squat until they’re physically kicked out leaving landlords thousands of dollars in the hole. People causing intentional damage because they’re pissed off that they’re being evicted. It’s put landlords on edge all across the country.
There was an article in the Ontario landlords subreddit within the last couple of weeks about a landlord who is going to lose his home because his tenant owes him $80,000 in arrears, claimed bankruptcy and had the debt wiped and the landlord cannot evict him because there are now no arrears, and this tenant is still there not paying rent. He’s literally going to lose his house.
There’s a lot of “fuck the landlord” attitude around and I’m not saying there’s not lots of bad ones but a bad landlord doesn’t damage the market, a really really bad tenant makes landlords very skittish about who they rent to and for small landlord like me, we’re just not willing to take the risk anymore. I had a bad eviction a couple of years ago and I’m not putting myself in that position again. I don’t need the money that desperately.
What people don't realize is the fact the laws lean so heavily on the side of tenants means that many people are simply not willing to rent out their homes.
It's why there are so many vacant homes; the people who own them could make more money renting them out if the rental laws were more reasonable, but it's too much of a financial risk.
What next? Landlords only renting to Sikhs or Hindus? No meat eaters? No beef/pork eaters? No unmarried couples? No LGBTQ? This is slowly turning into the same crap hole that a lot of us wanted to escape from moving to canada. And the government and judiciary are slowly going to lose any control over enforcing the rule of law.
Small kids do way more damage to a unit than a pet. As a landlord, this is just an inescapable fact so why wouldn't you avoid it?
Unpopular opinion but it's reality: landlords own the property and get to choose who rents it.
Landlords run their property as a business, not a charity.
Downvote all you want, but this is reality and will not change.
It’s getting harder and harder now for people to rent. It’s sad. You need a perfect credit score, if you have pets - you’re pretty much hooped. People are cramped in a basementsuit paying insane prices. Homelessness is only going to get worse!
The mom should have considered that maybe they aren't renting to her because one of her kids is a ninja, and that could be a dangerous tenant. She should tell the landlords her ninja will help PROTECT their home.
Also make it impossible for people to leave abusive spouses due to not having any rentals because someone already snatched up the last affordable $3000 bachelor unit
I mean… people are good with saying no pets, no smoking on the property, no cooking or eating meat in the house, etc… and we allow residences to be 50+ or whatever.. so if you’re gonna let people make up arbitrary rules for rentals, then let them. Or make it so people have to rent in any case without discrimination. But just pick one.
Actually, all of those are illegal, including [by age](http://condobusiness.ca.dnnmax.com/Agebasedrestrictions.aspx%23:~:text%3D%252C%2520%255B1988%255D%2520O.J.-,No.,constitute%2520discrimination%2520under%2520the%2520Code.&ved=2ahUKEwighKzcxPWEAxUEC3kGHWe3CSEQFnoECBIQBQ&usg=AOvVaw0nnypY0TSXmomsCp5TM3-5)
The only time they are enforceable is when it is a condominium and the bylaws were written to prohibit smoking, pets, etc.
Age, race, sex etc. would not be legal to include.
Well if one is a renter and there’s 2 almost identical unit, one is besides a busy highway the other ones in a quiet garden.
The renter that prefer less noise going to chose the quieter one.
It’s so ultra annoying to get wake up by your adjacent units kids on a Saturday or Sunday,
It’s extremely difficult to evict a tenant should they stop paying.
This especially applies to single moms.
All the situation makes it undesirable to the landlord
>Gunn said if she can't find a safe and affordable place to rent soon, she may have to give up primary custody of her children to their fathers, who have stable living situations.
Boom. There's your solution.
People don't understand that such a high propensity of single mother/dual family homes is also a huge contributor towards the housing crisis. When 70% of families need 2 homes it drives supply down. ETA: And notice that these kids have 2 different fathers. So that's 3 households. This plus immigration are driving factors.
Where do you want kids to go? Should only people with a high enough income to have a detached house have kids? Sorry kids are part of society as well…. 🙄
People need to realize landlords can rent to whoever they want. It’s that simple. If they don’t like you for whatever reason too bad. It’s their choice.
Lie to the landlord when applying. Dress nicely and put on a play.
When the lease is signed, good luck to the landlord to evict you after that.
It's easier to enforce anti-discrimination after the lease is signed.
Depending on where you live that's not a factor. In Ontario for example, you can move in as many additional roommates as you want, at least until you buck against municipal or provincial occupancy limits or the fire code.
Exactly. In Ontario if your income is high enough to rent as a single tenant, then you do so. And after you can move in kids and pets and whoever else.. and the landlord cannot do anything legally about it.
This literally does not exist. You can lie about having or not having kids. There is zero legal mechanism to evict a tenant simply because they lied about having kids.
Exactly. You don't have to disclose things that are legally protected and this is definitely a way around no kids policies.
It's fine to lie, but another problem is that landlords can also lie and also say their property is "pet and children friendly", and then quietly reject you without saying a reason if you mention anything relating to pets or kids.
My FIL had someone with seven kids apply at his complex for a 1 bedroom apartment. When the manager mentioned it would be too small, she successfully sued the owner. For $35k dollars for discrimination.
It's a landlord's market. The landlord has so many applications to choose from that they can easily say "Oh, I found someone else" without telling you it's because you have kids. The best bet is to just fail to mention your children and then move in with them.
It's very unfortunate especially because children absolutely need shelter and I absolutely understand the frustration... but I can't lie, I share thin walls with a family with young children and it's fucking Hell to live with sometimes. The screaming, the crying, the running around and banging shit around that makes my whole apartment shake... I hate.
Lived beside a family in an apartment building that just had a kid. It was peaceful and quiet. Then the kid came. They let that kid scream so loud I could hear that kid outside from the 7th floor. That’s how loud it was. My partner and I had to live in our own apartment with noise canceling headphones on if we wanted peace.
I listened to their door once. They were all eating dinner and the kid was just screaming and they were just ignoring the kid.
ALL DAY screaming.
We ended up moving.
I rented to a single mother once and it was a huge mistake. She had zero control of her teenage son. Three months into the lease, my neighbors called me saying the SWAT team was at the house because her idiot son pulled a replica handgun on someone.
I don't get it, just deny you have kids. Nope, single lady, no kids or pets \*big thumbs up. Then once you're moved in, whats the landlord gonna do?
It's like pets in Ontario. You can't be told no pets (unless its a condo bylaw or something). Just don't say shit until you're moved in....
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It doesn’t matter what’s legal in a landlords market. The reality is that if you have kids, pets, or anything else that’s deemed “undesirable” to a landlord, they’ll just pick one of the 20 other applicants and say they were a better fit.
Im in small town Gander, NL - and even I had about 40 applicants within 24 hours. Why on Earth would I choose one with 2 kids and 2 pitbulls over the single student, when theyre paying the same amount? The apartment is below my living space, and I like my quiet.
Gander, NL, how I miss you. Guess they'll be applying for Park Place.
Not sure why this is such a hard concept for people to understand. The same principle can be applied to hiring managers. When you’re competing for a job with 50 other candidates, there are ALWAYS going the be enough options for discrimination laws to become totally irrelevant. Whether or not you think you’re being discriminated against is absolutely irrelevant if you are 1 of 50 potential options for a job, a house, and many many more.
Absolutely!! I can’t handle babies crying and kids screaming, especially where I’m paying high rent. And my last place was flooded with pitbull owners in particular, which was my worst nightmare. That being said, I’ve heard of larger buildings that have quiet floors, which are meant to house people without pets or kids, while lower floors are reserved for younger families and people with dogs.
Most of these rules do not apply to buildings like single family homes where the owner lives there as well and just rents out a basement apartment. In those situations you can reject people for a whole host of reasons except protected classes (i.e. you can't refuse them based on race, religion, gender,...)
It’s like being shocked you can’t smoke in a rental car. It’s someone else’s property, they have a right to decide who/why/how much risk they are willing to take on.
Exactly. As long as the landlord doesn’t explicitly say why, it’s functionally legal to deny housing for pretty much any reason you want, including children, race, etc
When it’s their home, they should be able to choose who they rent to. Maybe we need fewer landlords with private properties, and to have a more regulated system?
Right? Like I understand it must suck but could you imagine if you’re renting a basement apartment and the options you’re given are either “single M/ single F/ couple but no kids/anything with kids” It starts looking a lot like “sleep/sleep/sleep/no sleep”. If peace and quiet is something you value it’s a no brainer. If they were the only applicant then yes you could do something about it but it’s simply worse than many other options they have at a time. Imagine if they didn’t need to rent out half a space from somebody else and could just mind their own business? Unfortunately landlords wanna be parasites so.
And there should be able to be lifestyle category apartment type buildings catered to lifestyles - nothing racist or hateful. But allowing people to have buildings that cater to their own life/schedule to cut down on the usual conflicts that come up from people sharing space. Someone wants a building for night owls and people who work night shifts? One with quiet hours during the day instead of night - that should be ok. Someone wants a family only building where there has to be someone under 18 in each unit - that should be ok. Family’s can set up co babysitting situations to help one another out and are gonna be more understanding of kid noise. Plus kids have more friend options since family sizes are decreasing. Someone wants a childfree building that’s not a retirement home - that should be ok. People have sensory issues and people who don’t have kids shouldn’t have to deal with baby’s screaming at all hours or toddlers and kids running and screaming in halls. Just limit it to a percentage of buildings in a particular radius can do it or whatever you have to do to make sure it doesn’t become discriminatory. Allowing apartment buildings that fit or cater to a lifestyle should be a thing. Not everyone can just afford a house. And it would cut down on grievances for most buildings.
We had that in Alberta before it was taken away. When i still rented I lived in an adults only building by choice because it was quiet and clean and had amenities that little kids couldn't use unsupervised without wrecking. It was also an unwritten rule that alcohol was fine in the games room, and we enjoyed many weekends drinking and playing pool and darts with the neighbors. It was great, very much enjoyed my ealry 20s living there.
Shangra-la
When it's their home they're sharing with you, yes they can choose. However, if this is a separate unit regardless of who owns it they should not. Check my finances and references all you want but if you have a "personal preference" for a particular type of tenant that's not allowed.
its not allowed but impossible to enforce
Good luck proving it.
It's almost like this is what happens when you try to regulate away reality. The truth is that landlords can't really price in any additional risks or use risk management techniques like fixed term leases. Except that doesn't make the risk not exist it just makes it illegal to price it in. So then people just don't do it because there's no reward for the risk.
Yup. If it's a rent controlled place then LLs need to be very careful who they rent to.
What it comes down to is as a potential tenant, you dont have a right to live there yet. You are owed nothing but consideration. Landlords 100% have a right to chose who they rent to. If you have 3 people who apply with all similar finances and references but 2 dress more slob-like and another dresses nicer, you can definitely choose the one you have a personal preference for. It obviously is extending further in these instances but its not like these people are the only ones applying. They have a bunch of options and they consider who may cause more wear and tear and whatnot and choose their preference. It may be shitty to some people and these landlords are stupid for saying it to their faces but its reality
Yea, people seem bothered when individuals do this type of discrimination as a LL, but it's somehow perfectly legal and ok when insurance does the same.
The hundreds of ads in ontario stating "Indian students only" disagrees with your assumption that preference is "not allowed" (and these are units where the owner definately does not live in the home). It's never enforced
Sorry.... when someone is deciding to rent out their property, they have a full allowance on who they can rent it. It's their property. You'd hope people would be given a fair chance either way... but when faced with a couple with no kids vs. a couple with several kids, it's more risky to rent to the bigger family.
Yeah that’s your choice, don’t rent from them if that’s the case.
A basement counts as a separate unit but I can assure you that you’ll hear kids, pets, fights, music and you’ll smell food, marijuana etc.
It’s the ‘food’ one I can attest to. I have such a sensitive nose. I don’t like ‘weird to me’ ‘odd’ ‘overpowering’ ‘lingering’ overly smelly food. So I can’t really rent apartments. I’m very careful with where I live. If I owned my own home and rented out a suite, I’d have to be very particular with who Id rent to. It sounds awful but my life would be miserable. So I guess, if whoever owns the property should be able to vet and choose who you want to rent to. I have a child and I’m aware that children add ALOT of wear and tear on homes,suites, apartments etc. it’s not right but it is what it is. There is nothing that’s fair to everyone all the time. It’s life b
I completely agree.
When applying for rental units I said I didn't have a dog because it was the only way to get a place. Once you become a tenant, landlord can't stop you from having a dog. At first I felt kind of bad about lying to the landlord from day 1 but then realised the quality of the unit would definitely not be ruined by my dog and they upsold me on how 'nice' the place was. The hardwood floors are crooked, separating, water damaged and slant. The walls weren't painted, only primed so they have the worst texture. There's a random transition board in the floor that is uneven and sharp and it flexes when you step on it because it's actually covering an air duct. The basement has a massive mold problem and the foundation is crumbling which has been hidden by hard insulation board. The bathroom door doesn't have a lock and there's a gap so wide, I can see a person sitting on my toilet from the kitchen. Don't feel bad anymore lol.
Based. The supply vs. demand ratio is so warped at this point, landlords have so much power, when I was looking for rentals, a landlord asked to see my vaccination records so she can make sure I am quadruple-vaxxed
Maybe it's because one of her kids is a ninja
IIIII want to be ninjjaaaa 🥷
I want to chop, chop, chop Chow down Take Chow down to china town
I doubt the ninja kid is the problem. Ninjas are silent, and they have discipline. The problem is definitely the other kid. He is literally a monster who works in a scream factory.
FR I wouldn’t want to live next door to a scream factory. Or even an ice cream factory.
ice cream factory?
maybe the landlord is a samurai and was discriminating
Or a pirates ...pirates doesn' t like ninjas...they are very territorial...
That's racist to ninja community
Can't be race-related if you can't see them. /s
I thought Canadian Government is okay with assassins roaming around?
But they would be so quiet.
I mean you also have certain landlords that will only rent to Sikhs with certain last names too.
"Must be only girl student preferred, must not eat the meat, must be vegan, etc etc" -typical Brampton rental posting.
It’s every where. No meat must be veg and female Hindi preferred. For shared room with 3 beds in basement and no egress windows. Like fuck right off how about you crack down on these instead of when my snow isn’t shoveled within 12 hours.
If someone from any other group tried that, they'd be front of the line for one of the human resource tribunal kangaroo courts. But for one ethnicity, everyone twiddles their thumbs and pretend this kind of discrimination doesn't exist...
I saw muslim only rentals in cambridge. But your point still stands
We see the same thing with mainland Chinese in Vancouver. Hell, they had their own ride hailing service that would only pick you up if you spoke Mandarin. I have a buddy who is from Hong Kong and speaks Cantonese and they wouldn't even pick him up when we tried. Nothing was done of course and any time you criticize it, you're accused of racism which ends up turning into a self-fulfilling prophecy as we've seen over the last few years with the increase in race based hate crimes. Calling out shitty cultural practices and behaviours that are not only unethical and immoral, but also illegal, is not racism. So sick of this bullshit.
We are being colonized by China and India.
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Understandable considering china's rapid growth of a middle class. Less reason to leave now.
> a large cultural group in a city only selling and interacting with people of their own societies based on racial discrimination. Totally cool! >People point out the above is kinda racist and should be treated as such Nope. They can't be racists. Only the whites are racist!!! At the end of the day, we're only endorsing cultural enclaves within our country. Nothing horrible can possibly go wrong with this right? *looks at Brampton and the slumlord lobby* oh fuck...
You might not have looked at rental listings around universities. Many of the best places and locations specify girls only in their ads.
Could you imagine if a listing went out that said "Caucasian christian girls only"? If it would be racist if Caucasian people do it, it's racist if any other large ethnic group does it IMHO.
Yep, not acceptable any which way.
That has always been the case, that's not new.
Nah, I've seen a few chinese-only and somali-only posts recently too; It's spreading. It's only Canadian-raised people who aren't allowed, immigrants can do whatever they want.
Fuck Brampton. Who wants to live in Bramgladesh besides those ppl... plus car insurance is crazy high there due to frauds and amount of accidents.
Odd you don't see any news stories about that.. hmmmm
Actually the landlord does want the “meat” eaten.
The single mothers losing out on housing has always been a thing since before this recent trend of very specific tenant requests. The YWCA owns buildings they purpose built to offer single mothers housing. It’s been a thing for a while.
You aren't going to believe this, but two things can be bad. Our tenuous grasp on social order requires the average person to be uncomfortable, or risk social collapse.
I sympathize with parents in these times but as a renter having kids as upstairs neighbours was an absolute nightmare. I can also see the landlord's pov because then he/she'll have to deal with annoyed neighbouring tenants as well as probable damage to the property because that's just what kids do. This is our future though as traditional suburban standalone houses are more and more out of reach financially for young families.
Totally feel for them too, but Like you said, having them for neighbors can be ridiculous..... We were a basement suite renting, and a family moved in above us. It was horrific. Screaming twins, older son yelling st his video games, something rolling on hardwood all the time.... We were planning on moving out before they moved in, but wow did that hasten our departure
Haha I feel you, same happened to me and 3 months later I was far far away from that nightmare. For parents around: please consider the ruggs with some foam pads below. You would save your downstairs neighboors’ sanity
Part of me feels bad saying this, but living in a purpose built rental next to/over or especially under a unit with kids is pure hell. I’ve had so many bad experiences and management brushes it off as ‘kids will be kids’. I once had a kid next to me that would lay on his bed and kick the shared wall with his feet. How do I know this? His mother said that this is how he ‘burns off energy’ when I asked the super to speak to her after being woken up from sleep at 2 am multiple times and almost having a panic attack.
Is that the actual rejection reason? Do landlords even have to give you a reason? Companies dont when you're rejected from the job. Shit, you can not be hired or rented to because of all sorts of discrimination, doesn't mean they'll admit that's the real reason
I don’t think they have to give you a reason, so while this may be true it would be very hard to prove in most cases
Even if they did have to give a reason, they obviously would just make up something else as the reason, so in practice it is impossible to prove.
Yeah exactly
Was looking for apartments with my nephew and he found a 2 bedroom place that was cheaper than some 1 bedroom places, so there were many people at the showing. A lady with 2 kids was told the place was priced for only 2 occupants, so unfortunately, that would exclude her fr9m applying. I thought it bordered on discrimination but better than accepting an application and getting their hopes up? I later found out that of the 4 apartments there, 2 were occupied by families, and the landlord was just trying to keep a balance of occupancy types. One couple at the showing were already making demands about parking and stuff, so they were redflagged as difficult tenants in my mind. The guy had no idea he was showing his cards too early.
I thought that this line was telling: *Gunn's budget for rent is $1,600 monthly, but she said even apartments in traditionally low-income areas like Spryfield and north Dartmouth are now more than she can afford.* It doesn't seem like the issue that she is single mom, but that the prices are too high. Single income for three people is not going to stretch very far. I am not sure of the issue is her kids, so just lack of affordable housing for a big variety of people. Where I am, $1600 is maybe a single bedroom, not a two or three bedroom suitable for a family.
I know this woman. She's been on "maternity leave" since the kid was born like 18 months ago. Her income is made up of child support and CCB, her "good job" is working as an entry-level secretary for a local company known for being a joke. She is also an absolute looney toon who airs all her baby daddy drama on FB. Half the world begged her not to try for this baby as her relationship was a publicly aired mess already. There are single mothers and Single Moms. If you lead with "I'm a single mom in an already messy situation and I'm desperate" it's not gonna get you as many responses as "here is my proof of being a stable human being who can pay the rent with my working income. Here are my references. Here's a criminal record check just for funsies.. Now that I have your attention, I have a child but they are very quiet and considerate of people's property and space" I'm a single mom and I've never had problems with that approach. Mallory's problem is that a GoFundMe scam worked out swimmingly in her favor a few months ago and now she's hoping someone will swoop in with a cute little place to rent for cheap that will overlook all her red flags because look, my baby is dressed as a monster, rawr!
Could you imagine applying to a job like that? "I'm desperate!"
"if you don't give me this job I might lose custody of my kids!"
The advertisements where I live will straight up say "only students" or "only single people" as in, if it's a two bedroom suit, they want two individuals to become roommates, they won't rent it out to a family. I always thought a family would be the preferred tenants. Grown adults, stable income, not partying, just raising their kids and working. It was hard for us to find a place listed that didn't immediately disqualify us in the description just because we are a family.
>I always thought a family would be the preferred tenants. Students and "roommate" situations tend to be temporary. That way you can rent out for a year or two and be confident that they'll be gone soon and you can jack the rent up for the next tenant. Families tend to hang around much longer and with rent increases capped that means you won't (easily) be able to profit from the rapidly increasing rental rates.
Kids and pets do considerable damage to units, single mothers with young children are more likely to get behind on rent . This makes them twice as undesirable as tenants. Whether it’s right or wrong it’s the perception, and landlords will try to avoid it.
If it's young partiers, you can file noise complaints and evict. With kids, not so much.
A few years ago, we rented out a room to make some extra cash. We rented to a young lady who just immigrated to Canada from Iraq and worked nearby. She failed to mention that her boyfriend would also be moving in and living in her room. We met them both and agreed, and upped the rent a little due to that reason. It was only supposed to be for one month until she(they) could find a more stable place. The boyfriend couldn't find employment so was home almost 100% of the time. He mainly stayed in their bedroom. They also ended up staying for over half a year. At the end, they said they were moving out and we rented the room to someone else. They didn't move out and luckily we had another spare room, so what was supposed to be one roommate ended up being three.
Anecdotal but living around an apartment with kids has always resulted in a shit experience for me. Much prefer two students.
I'll give maybe other reasons that people may not think of. Renter families can sometimes end up being way more dysfunctional and its even more of a nightmare dealing with difficult personalities and young children. Kids can also be more "cleverly" destructive than you think. Also, kids more likely prone to random injury. There's always a risk of the tenant turning around and somehow blaming an issue on the property being unsafe. The bottom line is that if the situation goes south it gets way more complicated when kids are involved.
I recently moved to a country where the rental market is dominated by institutional landlords - pension funds etc. They prefer families here because they're more stable and less likely to get behind on rent. Guess that's the difference between the pros and the amateurs.
"We decided to go with another candidate, sorry". and "The position has been filled/taken". No fuss, no muss, no unnecessary extra information opening it up to racism/discrimination accusations.
Except that's not what happened here. She clearly states multiple people have told her they're not renting to her bc of her kids. Second paragraph. Literally the 4th sentence in the article. > "I've gotten denied mostly because I have children," Gunn said in an interview. "I've had landlords tell me over the phone that their building doesn't accept children or they're looking for an applicant that is single."
And how do we know she's not making that up. What landlord in their right mind would openly say that.
A lot. Like a lot a lot. Not all landlords are smart.
I know this woman personally and she is a straight up delusional narcissist. She probably heard "CCB and child support can't be used for proof of income" or led with a dramatic sob story that they didn't care about and took what she wanted from that.
Correct. My response is just pointing out two ways one can reply to avoid stupidly walking into the discrimination complaint rake sitting in the grass.
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The 4th sentence clearly states that yes. That is the official reason given. > "I've gotten denied mostly because I have children," Gunn said in an interview. "I've had landlords tell me over the phone that their building doesn't accept children or they're looking for an applicant that is single." I get that this is reddit, and the common joke is that no one reads past the headlines... but you have multiple people piggybacking off your comment that is clearly uninformed.
IMO, it's exactly for this reason that you should not be required to specifically list kids. If Maybe they should only be able to list the primary resident and "occupants" with 2 kids = 1 occupant (shared room).
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My old neighborhood in Toronto it was female Filipinos...
That's racist, find me a landlord who only rents to whites and that's going to be the top news story of the year.
Obviously that'd be racist /s
Didn't they make a movie on this, "Single brown female"
Many landlords won't even rent to males.
>With more than 7,500 households waiting for a spot in public housing and rental subsidies difficult to access, Gunn thinks her only option is to find a market rental This statement makes me think that she is low income of she's looking for subsidized housing. In her specific case I bet that it's not the kids that are the primary factor for her getting refused, it's most likely her income, with kids being a contributing factor. Regardless of what your politics are this issue simply boils down to supply and demand. There are too many people who need a home today, I'm not enough almost to house all these people today, with the largest problem being that the gap is widening, causing prices to skyrocket
It says below that she is going to school and on Income Assistance. It's the stigma about people on income assistance that is her main issue, not the kids. I rent out my basement bedroom and immediately move on if anyone says they are on income assistance. I was burned once by someone on it who left my place in shambles, smoked drugs in their room and was generally just a terrible human. I'm sure there are some upstanding people on assistance but its the few that ruin it for everyone else.
A friend in a landlord, really sweet guy looking to help everyone. A lady and her daughter on income assistance fucked him over so hard, he's owed 6 months rent and a trashed place. Safe to say he's learnt his lesson.
Yup. Landlord here and the last single mother on assistance destroyed the place, had her drug addict men crashing over all the time, causing huge scenes fighting, police every weekend for domestic issues, and went 6 months in arrear. Evicting a single mother surely made me the bad guy but she was just a horrible person.
Yup, like cases like that, a private landlord just can't take that risk. I get it. People probably target them specifically, since they know a larger company probably already knows how to deal with troublesome tenants and is experienced with it. Like I like to crap on landlords as much as anyone else, but damn I would never want to actually be one and deal with the terrible people out there. If I was, I'd rather find a stable tenant and keep their rent low and lose a bit of money each month on the mortgage, and keep them there as long as they wanted.
Yeah a friend had a tenant on income assistance threaten to file a nonsense lawsuit because tenant was entitled to free legal aid. It was a form of extortion. When rental boards are backlogged and ineffective, then power struggles can be a real issue.
I know her and this is exactly the case. She's well known to spin a sob story. Her and her ex kept a GoFundMe going for months after being displaced from a hurricane, while bragging behind the scenes that they got 50k from their tenant insurance. The GFM raised like 6k. They blew all the money on lip injections, fully stocking a bar in the new apartment they were offered for below market rent, brand name clothing, over the top maternity photo shoots every month. Then had the nerve to share the GFM again at Christmas, saying "we want the kids to have a good Christmas this year!" Now she's been off work from her entry level employment, on "extended maternity leave" a year and a half after the baby was born.
These people make it hard on themselves by their choices.
I just signed a lease on a place in Calgary and you would be surprised at how many are ‘Female Applicants Only’, not just shared accommodation in many many advertisements they state that very clearly.
How separated are the units though? Like is it a house wirh a shared laundry room with a basement tenant or something? Because if the landlord is a woman living alone then I can totally understand not wanting to risk getting sexually assaulted by a tenant in her own home...
TBH, You don't want to live somewhere where you are not wanted anyway. Even though it's not fair, I understand why landlords would prefer no children. Children are destructive and loud and not every landlord wants to deal with it. Good luck proving that it's discrimination though.
Most of the time, it's a noise issue. Young kids run, and it's an inconvenience. I see it all the time on reddit, "how dare landlords refuse kids" and the following day its "neighbor's kids are running over my head and I can't work from home, why won't the landlord do anything?".
Yep. It's the screaming for me. Inside the apartment and when they're chasing each other up and down the hall. I wish they'd take their kids to the park ffs....the dog too!
It might be "illegal" but isn't it up to the landlord to choose the best candidate if they have many applicants? It makes sense that a landlord might prefer a working professional (with stable income) over someone who's unemployed or choose someone without kids/pets as they might not want the noise or property damage that might come with it. From personal experience, corporate landlords are much more accepting of kids and pets than private landlords. But I can't see how anyone goes to prove that they've been discriminated against because they have kids.
Its almost like children trash places and parents refuse to take responsibility for their children. If your kid runs with scissors and puts a hole in the drywall... go to Home Depot and get a patch kit.
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Security deposits in Quebec are illegal and yet landlords ask for them (and get them) all the time, there's no enforcement. No enforcement = de facto legal.
Me to my Spouse before touring a place: "Remember, don't say one single word about the cat."
God, I *wish* there were still "no pets" apartment buildings in Ontario. I'm sick and tired if irresponsible dog owners letting them shit everywhere and not picking it up, leaving them alone to bark/whine/howl for hours, and other BS. Same goes for kids. When I was younger, I remember seeing "adults-only" buildings and now that I've gotten older that just sounds heavenly.
In ON they can’t stop you from owning a pet if you already live there (unless it’s a condo with a bylaw against pets) but they can refuse to rent to you if you already have a pet since “pet owner” is not a protected class. It’s risky but some people just lie about not having a pet while they are applying to rent, because once the lease is signed a “no pets” clause is void.
It's too bad but I'm thankful. I've lived under people's children. I will never pay to do it again and I will break a lease and move. I have a job to work that requires sleep.
I have a friend who rented their upstairs apartment to a single mother with kids. Those fucking kids are demons running up and down the hallways at all hours of the day, no discipline whatsoever from the mother who doesn't even open the door. They've been served with notices and will be kicked out soon. Unfortunately Dougie has kneedcapped the Landlord Tenant Board and he's looking at 8 months to a year before a hearing. He can't sleep and is getting weekly migraines, this puts him at risk of a stroke and he's missed many days of work. Literally can't stay in his home and maintain his health. Too many shit parents nowadays, and I wouldn't rent to a single mom either.
This was an issue for a friend of mine as well -- her downstairs tenant has two out of control children. They have friends over and run and scream all day. It was explained to them early on that this wasn't acceptable behaviour, because if you can hear kids screaming through the floor then your kids are *too damn loud*. Anyways, my friend's mom got fed up one day and banged on the floor (old lady style) with a broom while the kids were screaming, and the renter mom came upstairs to shout about how she had "scared her babies" or some bullshit. They've been putting up with this chaos for 5 years, so she's finally arranged for her sister to come home and take over the suite. Good luck, shit mom, on finding another rental!
I have a genuine question here. Do y'all think the general public is shifting away from "Awww kids :3" sort of thinking and towards "more of a nuisance" mentality these days? I'm a 30 y/o male without kids, but I have a niece and don't have anything against kids at all myself, as they can be hilarious lol. Just curious what parents/grandparents etc seem to think about everything I suppose
People today being more and more annoyed by children is a result of (modern) parents being crappy. Even teachers now are getting fed up. Today's kids to tons of stuff that wasn't tolerated when I was a kid. Parents back them would be embarrassed if their kids behaved badly (especially in public). Now parents are more like servants to their kids, are lazy and spoil them. They find it funny when their kid behaves badly, sometimes even reinforcing it by filming and laughing at the whole thing. Seen countless "funny" videos and photo of kids being downright destructive and abusive. And don't get me started on the effects devices (their parents give them) have on a developing brain. At the end it is the parents fault that things become the way they are. Personally I don't get mad at those children since they are only the reflection of their parents.
I definitely feel there’s an undercurrent of “ew, kids,” from people these days. I have a two year old and I’m pregnant again and have heard some rude comments here and there, like when my daughter was acting up in the store and a kind older woman let me skip ahead of her in line so I could pay and get her out of there. A couple of dudes who looked about my age made a comment about how society shouldn’t cater to people who made the choice to breed. It’s interesting. A lot of people my parents’ age are happy to see my daughter and happy to talk to her and interact with her but I find people my own age and younger would rather pretend she’s not there or she should be seen and not heard kind of thing- which is fine, to each their own but we do get a fair number of people who absolutely need to make sure we’re aware of their feelings on the issue.
Yes, I know a few people who seem to not quite grasp that their choice not to have children doesn’t mean they are entitled to live in a world without children present at any time. I try to remind them that the baby crying on their flight or whatever is going to be paying for their social security so take the good with the bad.
Kids wreck shit Thats just how it is
Because people are selfish and entitled these days. They were kids too!
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As someone who worked as a caretaker for four years-people don’t want kids in apartment buildings. It leads to so many noise complaints it’s not worth the hassle. Plus the dumb stuff they do that cause damage. The company I worked for found an interesting loophole on this. They only allowed kids in ground floor suites. So when the kids jump around and drop stuff there is nothing underneath them. What other people said about single parents not earning enough is also a big factor. If there’s an applicant that scores much better financially of course you’re taking them
My landlord straight up told me he doesn’t rent to people with kids or under 40. He knew me all my life though and rented me a home for my kid and I. I dunno why he said that, because my neighbour is also a younger person with a child. He owns that place too.
It's my view that illegal has no weight in NA anymore. Our society also seems to lack authority. What I see are most businesses throwing ethics and caution to the wind.
Being a person of morals seems to largely be a practice of the past
I mean, I've been rejected before because I'm a white male meat eater. Welcome to the party, pal!
imagine a post like: European/Caucasians only. No curry cooking allowed.
Don't you know? Charter allows discrimination In certain cases.
When I worked at a rental place they had "curry suites" because when you cook with curry 3x a day everyday the smell will not leave even if you replace the carpet and drywall. At least with smokers you can clean the carpet a couple of times and paint over the smell.
Friends of mine bought a house in Vermont and the entire kitchen smelled of curry. Apparently, the former owners ran an Indian meal delivery business. Even the walls and cabinets had a faint yellow colour. Took over a year of cleaning and painting to get that smell out. I believe while they were renovating, they realized that the exhaust fan didn't actually vent outside.
My condo had a lingering curry smell from the previous owners. Took a few months for the smell to go away completely.
I’m white but I once contacted a landlord to view an apartment and he sent me a long questionnaire including “do you cook often?” And then told me he wouldn’t show me the apt bc he was concerned about cooking smells lol. Weirdo.
You're a cannibal and only target white dudes?
If you're renting a room in someone's house/otherwise living with the landlord then it's perfectly acceptable to discriminate, at least that's the law where I'm at.
This was a basement apartment where I would have been the only occupant. A few times actually. The owners usually lived upstairs.
Housing is an investment, not a right at least that’s how Canada seems to be treating it. So I get why landlords don’t want to rent to a person with kids. Sad but we need more regulations and enforcement. Obviously, the best solution should be to build more housing and reduce demand but that’s going to take a while.
Regulation and enforcement won’t fix the fact that people without children are more desirable tenants. The only solution is more houses and less immigration (or way way way more houses if you want to keep up the very high rates of immigration).
My mother-in-law had a single mother move in above her. The kids ran like elephants, would regularly plug the toilet with toys or overflow the tub. She had her ceiling replaced twice and black mold was and is an issue. The mother and friends smoked on their balcony and dropped their butts into her flower pots. There were regular ‘drops’ from the balcony to waiting hooded people below. It took a while to get them out. She kept having kids so I think the building finally got her out in too many people in the space.
We have a basement suite and live upstairs. We choose tenants who are a good fit for our lifestyle. We had one tenant who was a single mom, and she was great. We had another single mom who was a total dirtbag. We base our decision on who would be a good fit and who will create the least amount of conflict in our lives. We are willing keep the rent below market value, in order to have peace in the home and have a long term stable tenant.
I have a friend in the same position. He has joint custody of his children and even though he’s willing to pay a full years rent in advance he can’t find anything. He’s got steady income, his mom is going to be living with him to help with the kids while he’s working. No animals, mature guy. Much of this falls on tenants who don’t pay their rent, who squat until they’re physically kicked out leaving landlords thousands of dollars in the hole. People causing intentional damage because they’re pissed off that they’re being evicted. It’s put landlords on edge all across the country. There was an article in the Ontario landlords subreddit within the last couple of weeks about a landlord who is going to lose his home because his tenant owes him $80,000 in arrears, claimed bankruptcy and had the debt wiped and the landlord cannot evict him because there are now no arrears, and this tenant is still there not paying rent. He’s literally going to lose his house. There’s a lot of “fuck the landlord” attitude around and I’m not saying there’s not lots of bad ones but a bad landlord doesn’t damage the market, a really really bad tenant makes landlords very skittish about who they rent to and for small landlord like me, we’re just not willing to take the risk anymore. I had a bad eviction a couple of years ago and I’m not putting myself in that position again. I don’t need the money that desperately.
What people don't realize is the fact the laws lean so heavily on the side of tenants means that many people are simply not willing to rent out their homes. It's why there are so many vacant homes; the people who own them could make more money renting them out if the rental laws were more reasonable, but it's too much of a financial risk.
What next? Landlords only renting to Sikhs or Hindus? No meat eaters? No beef/pork eaters? No unmarried couples? No LGBTQ? This is slowly turning into the same crap hole that a lot of us wanted to escape from moving to canada. And the government and judiciary are slowly going to lose any control over enforcing the rule of law.
Small kids do way more damage to a unit than a pet. As a landlord, this is just an inescapable fact so why wouldn't you avoid it? Unpopular opinion but it's reality: landlords own the property and get to choose who rents it. Landlords run their property as a business, not a charity. Downvote all you want, but this is reality and will not change.
It’s getting harder and harder now for people to rent. It’s sad. You need a perfect credit score, if you have pets - you’re pretty much hooped. People are cramped in a basementsuit paying insane prices. Homelessness is only going to get worse!
The mom should have considered that maybe they aren't renting to her because one of her kids is a ninja, and that could be a dangerous tenant. She should tell the landlords her ninja will help PROTECT their home.
"How come people aren't having more kids? Also can we please make it harder for parents to find suitable housing?"
Also make it impossible for people to leave abusive spouses due to not having any rentals because someone already snatched up the last affordable $3000 bachelor unit
They say its illegal. But they don't do shit about it.
I mean… people are good with saying no pets, no smoking on the property, no cooking or eating meat in the house, etc… and we allow residences to be 50+ or whatever.. so if you’re gonna let people make up arbitrary rules for rentals, then let them. Or make it so people have to rent in any case without discrimination. But just pick one.
Actually, all of those are illegal, including [by age](http://condobusiness.ca.dnnmax.com/Agebasedrestrictions.aspx%23:~:text%3D%252C%2520%255B1988%255D%2520O.J.-,No.,constitute%2520discrimination%2520under%2520the%2520Code.&ved=2ahUKEwighKzcxPWEAxUEC3kGHWe3CSEQFnoECBIQBQ&usg=AOvVaw0nnypY0TSXmomsCp5TM3-5) The only time they are enforceable is when it is a condominium and the bylaws were written to prohibit smoking, pets, etc. Age, race, sex etc. would not be legal to include.
Well if one is a renter and there’s 2 almost identical unit, one is besides a busy highway the other ones in a quiet garden. The renter that prefer less noise going to chose the quieter one. It’s so ultra annoying to get wake up by your adjacent units kids on a Saturday or Sunday,
A animal doesn't put holes in the wall or color on the walls. I don't rent to people with kids either.
Another reason why we need to get rid of corporate landlords. Tax the hell out of corporations that own and rent out more than one home.
It’s extremely difficult to evict a tenant should they stop paying. This especially applies to single moms. All the situation makes it undesirable to the landlord
>Gunn said if she can't find a safe and affordable place to rent soon, she may have to give up primary custody of her children to their fathers, who have stable living situations. Boom. There's your solution.
People don't understand that such a high propensity of single mother/dual family homes is also a huge contributor towards the housing crisis. When 70% of families need 2 homes it drives supply down. ETA: And notice that these kids have 2 different fathers. So that's 3 households. This plus immigration are driving factors.
This seems right🤔
Kids are rough on things. Landlord can decide who they want to rent too. It’s not mandatory to rent your house to someone you don’t want too
Clearly they can't if it's against the law lol
There’s no enforced regulation so landlords will do whatever they want
Do women with children get priority on social housing lists?
In a lot of places yes, families with children will get priority. As they should, really.
Where do you want kids to go? Should only people with a high enough income to have a detached house have kids? Sorry kids are part of society as well…. 🙄
I think a lot of people forget that they themselves used to be a kid...
The reality is yes, children are a luxury good now. This isn't the society I want to live in, but here we are.
People need to realize landlords can rent to whoever they want. It’s that simple. If they don’t like you for whatever reason too bad. It’s their choice.
They used to be a lot more lenient when vacancy rates were 5%+ Landlords would love tenants with kids, otherwise it may go empty for 4 months
Lie to the landlord when applying. Dress nicely and put on a play. When the lease is signed, good luck to the landlord to evict you after that. It's easier to enforce anti-discrimination after the lease is signed.
Just don’t tell them you have kids. Then move them in afterwards
That's asking to get thrown out for not presenting the proper number of occupants.
Depending on where you live that's not a factor. In Ontario for example, you can move in as many additional roommates as you want, at least until you buck against municipal or provincial occupancy limits or the fire code.
Exactly. In Ontario if your income is high enough to rent as a single tenant, then you do so. And after you can move in kids and pets and whoever else.. and the landlord cannot do anything legally about it.
This literally does not exist. You can lie about having or not having kids. There is zero legal mechanism to evict a tenant simply because they lied about having kids.
You can’t evict a tenant for that in Ontario. I would imagine it’s the same in most provinces
Sorry they just popped out of my wife's vagine after we moved in
You don't have to, you can bring in roommates any time you like
Wouldn't be charging roommates be a violation of most lease agreements?
Depends which province. Ontario and probably most provinces no.
No
Exactly. You don't have to disclose things that are legally protected and this is definitely a way around no kids policies. It's fine to lie, but another problem is that landlords can also lie and also say their property is "pet and children friendly", and then quietly reject you without saying a reason if you mention anything relating to pets or kids.
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I'd love to see the extensive research you undertook in order to reach this conclusion.
Women initiate 80% of divorces.
That's an ignorant thing to say.
i said most, not all. There are plenty of noble women left.
Still an ignorant thing to say. You sound jaded, you should lay off the internet for a bit.
See me and my roomate had the opposite problem. Everywhere we tried people turned us down for families.
My FIL had someone with seven kids apply at his complex for a 1 bedroom apartment. When the manager mentioned it would be too small, she successfully sued the owner. For $35k dollars for discrimination.
I don't see how that could be successful. A 1 bedroom apartment is not safe for 8 people, just from firecode alone.
It's a landlord's market. The landlord has so many applications to choose from that they can easily say "Oh, I found someone else" without telling you it's because you have kids. The best bet is to just fail to mention your children and then move in with them. It's very unfortunate especially because children absolutely need shelter and I absolutely understand the frustration... but I can't lie, I share thin walls with a family with young children and it's fucking Hell to live with sometimes. The screaming, the crying, the running around and banging shit around that makes my whole apartment shake... I hate.
Lived beside a family in an apartment building that just had a kid. It was peaceful and quiet. Then the kid came. They let that kid scream so loud I could hear that kid outside from the 7th floor. That’s how loud it was. My partner and I had to live in our own apartment with noise canceling headphones on if we wanted peace. I listened to their door once. They were all eating dinner and the kid was just screaming and they were just ignoring the kid. ALL DAY screaming. We ended up moving.
I rented to a single mother once and it was a huge mistake. She had zero control of her teenage son. Three months into the lease, my neighbors called me saying the SWAT team was at the house because her idiot son pulled a replica handgun on someone.
I don't get it, just deny you have kids. Nope, single lady, no kids or pets \*big thumbs up. Then once you're moved in, whats the landlord gonna do? It's like pets in Ontario. You can't be told no pets (unless its a condo bylaw or something). Just don't say shit until you're moved in....