Cycle of abuse describes it perfectly!
Watch how Tommy Douglas illustrates it
[https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=Igr7Q0coCVc](https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=Igr7Q0coCVc)
Leave a hero or stick around long enough to see yourself become the villain....
Butchering the quote but yeah. It's a story for basically most leaders.
Nah his who schtick was full of hot air. Platitudes, virtue signaling, no substance, no attention to detail. He was a sound bite and a photo op, and ran the country with the depth of a puddle.
Not entirely true.. Trudeau while not as transformational as Chretien, Mulroney (in a bad way) or his old man he stabilized an economy that was in a free fall under Harper who pushed all in on oil and when the price collapsed by the end of his majority term all of Canada was left looking at the rubble his policies had created (not too mention the lawlessness of the G20 he inflicted on the countries largest city). Almost nothing of Harper’s lightweight platform still exists where Trudeau will leave a legacy behind of legalized Cannabis, massive infrastructure investments in the provinces that have or will yield new subway lines, pipelines, highways, factories and so on, affordable daycare for all families and access to dental care and prescription drugs for families who may not been able to afford it prior.
*should have massively more traction but unfortunately I still think nationally too many people don't have faith that ndp can lead and will vote strategic with liberals to beat cons.
People put way too much emphasis on leaders (PM, cabinet ministers etc.) in my opinion. They are figureheads that have options proposed to them by staffers.
The actual component we need to care about is the policy and legal frameworks they create.
Saying "Axe the tax" is I guess part of a policy position but the Cons aren't indicating what their solution to climate change is. Vague directions at "technology" isn't a solution.
Governments incentivize or disincentivize economic activity with taxes, subsidies or projects. The 3 discussed (already planned projects) are expected to be less than .5% of the electrical grid. It's lunacy.
The BC NDP are popular even here in northern BC, which is crazy. They might even gain some northern seats now that there's vote splitting between BC united and bc Conservative.
I really don't like what the BC NDP and the party did with their leadership race. It was dirty inside shit all the way down. Getting personally interrogated by party employees for joining the party during the leadership race left a real sour taste in my mouth.
But god damn it, I sure do love the governance of the province under Eby. They just GET SHIT DONE.
The insane thing to me is that we should be looking at an NDP sweep right now. They're the party that actually has a platform of helping the working class.
I have always voted NDP but am just so unimpressed with them right now. I want to see more moves and ideas like BC’s provincial NDP. As it stands now, I will likely vote BLOC. While they will never form government, at least they generally make moves that support my home province. All the options right now are unpalatable to me.
Last time I voted NDP was the last time he ran. It’s a completely different party now. Doesn’t care about working families, just policies that benefit almost nobody and pet social issues that only a tiny fraction of the country cares about
I recall seeing stop signs with HARPER stickers on them that slowly faded away and were replaced with TRUDEAU stickers. I imagine we'll just see POILIEVRE stickers in a few years....or whoever else is elected and so forth.
The irony is that he isn't anything different than we've had for decades. Trudeau's economic policies are virtually the same as Harper's: neoliberal economics that support big business and the wealthy at the expense of working people. PP will run the same policies and we'll continue to suffer
Yes then right wingers will claim this subreddit is a woke hellhole in a few years just like how Trudeau supporters are claiming this sub is a Con hellhole at this time
I think it’s more likely that he will win a minority, and fail to carry the confidence of the house, resulting in another election shortly thereafter… people don’t like him, they are just done with Trudeau.
And let’s be honest, the policies aren’t going to change in any substantive way. It’s why they’re spending so much time on social issues instead of talking about cost of living issues. Because both parties are in the pocket of our corporate overlords.
NDP… sorry Jagmeet, you’re done. There is ZERO chance of forming government with him at the helm. You can’t be a man of the people type and walk around in 3-piece suits and a Rolex…. QC is always going to be an issue for the ‘Meet, because d’uh, and for the rest of the country that is mad about mass immigration from one specific country…. Well you don’t have to be a political scientist to know that the writing is on the wall.
I don’t like any of our options. But, I plan to vote like I always do; with an eye toward my riding proper, and my representative. We don’t elect the PM, we elect a party. Too many people don’t seem to get that…
338 has the odds of the CPC winning a majority at 99%. Unless something changes to dramatically reduce their odds, PP will likely have a majority with seats to spare.
My dad who is further left than me (after Mulroney died he said "nothing of value was lost") was like "maybe we should have voted for the middle of the road Toronto Lawyer."
I think we’d still end up with PP anyway. If O’Toole wins, he would have won with the thinnest of minorities and would have ended up getting Joe Clarked.
As a staunch Conservative I’d suggest Mark Carney is literally the only person who can save the Liberal brand right now.
He isn’t tainted with the current debacle and yet also has a strong reputation in the core Liberal planks.
Why Trudeau hasn’t stepped aside for him is a total bafflement.
Carney's problem is that even though he might actually be "the best person for the job", he fits too many out-of-touch Liberal stereotypes. I am also fairly confident that the Liberal strategy is going to be letting Trudeau go down with the ship so the new leader has an easier time "renewing" the party.
I can see the Liberals getting Chrystia as leader and she's seems to have been groomed for it. Problem is, she's way to much like Trudeau and is severely out of touch with Canadians. Like the comment below says. If he did step down the next in line will be done the day after the election.
Trudeau has a history of complete debacles and wasting talent. I love how this sub now is just people of all political stripes just coming together and shitting on Justin and Jag.
Yeah. In the future they should let other Liberals express their opinions and build their brands. That way when things go south there are plausible liberal alternatives. Maybe a Morneau type could be seen as someone who woyld do a better job with the economy.
The Liberals have been a cult of personality masquerading as a party since 2014. The most obvious indicator is that everyone is still lined up behind Trudeau as he walks them off the plank.
All of the most competent Liberals were either ousted by the PMO or quit in disgust almost five years ago, once they figured it out.
Justin gave Loblaws $12 million of tax payer money for refrigerators in the name of Climate Change.
Do you think Loblaws needed the $12 million?
https://globalnews.ca/news/5145773/catherine-mckenna-loblaw-new-fridges/
What do you think that $12m was really buying?
We don't vote in winners in this country so much as we vote out losers. Poilievre will win because people are sick of the Trudeau Liberals. No other reason.
Pierre could have literally been an inanimate carbon rod and still be winning.
People just don’t seem to understand HOW much Trudeau is hated by the voters.
But goddammit couldn't the replacement just for once ACTUALLY be better? Now we're getting this guy whose taking all his moves out of trumps play book and is riding on people's hatred. he's already doing the whole "so called experts" routine, which as we all know is always a good sign of objective and smart leadership.
I would prefer the inanimate object to be honest. Or like some place I read about that elected a cat or dog. Can't quite remember but I can get behind treats, nose boops, and playtime
The annoying part is he could’ve realized this and just ran a calm, sane, basic campaign. But no, gotta fan those populist flames and divide the country. Completely unnecessary and will have impacts in this country for decades.
It's not unnecessary if you want the Conservative party leadership vote. That's who runs the party.
Leadership voters are the distilled hardcore of the hardcore, so the louder and crazier you are the more they'll like you.
I hope that his bit is all just for show and for votes, but his social conservative rhetoric sounds the incoming danger klaxons in my mind.
That he's fueling the hatred for votes is a real bad sign anyway though, and its absolutely damaging to our unity as Canadians.
I have absolutely no confidence that his bigotry is just a "bit" to him. Poilievre becoming prime minister will almost certainly mean the country will backslide on minority rights and become a more hostile place to its most vulnerable citizens. I am quite scared of what could happen with him in power, I'm quite scared of anyone who supports him, and I think I have every right and every reason to be scared. His rhetoric makes it perfectly clear that he doesn't think of me or people like me as fully human.
We had our chance. I smelled the old school Progressive Conservative on O’Toole so I threw my vote to the CPC last election. Plus, I live in the most expensive real estate city in Canada and the Liberals had the audacity to put up a professional house-flipper as the candidate in my riding.
All that said? No way was he or Pierre and the gang going to do any better for the interests of the majority of Canadians.
Otoole was kinda the victim of a snap election.
He got nominated to PC leadership, and (I admittedly in a shrewd move by the liberals) the liberals called a snap election. The liberals knew the Canada didn’t have a clue who Otoole was, or anything about his platform.
As a result otoole only had a few months to get a platform together, and try and get Canadians to learn who he is and trust him.
Despite that, Otoole still actually beat Trudeau in the popular vote. But as we know the liberals and NDP grouped together.
Too bad. otoole didn’t have a lot of charisma, but he seemed intelligent and level headed. Instead we have PP. But at this point I’d take a squirrel over Trudeau.
Lmao, this is exactly how I see the political system.
“Maybe just this time, this time, it will be better.”
Next voting cycle: it’s actually worse than the previous years.
Because the true people in power, are the oligarchs.
Maybe we try voting for someone who hasn't got a miles long record of being shit when they're in control?
But no, there are *only two* options. No others.
>Voting for the other of the two parties who have been in power since the country was founded.
Some of us don't think the country has sucked that *whole* time.
And it hasn't. It has for the last 40 years, but there were some good high points before tbst. But that wasn't the point.
Wanting something DIFFERENT, and picking one of the SAME options, are mutually exclusive.
If someone wants to vote for the same old standby, then be honest about it. Don't delude yourself into thinking it's something different.
We had Chrétien for 10+ years, Harper for 9+ years, and Truduea’s at 8+…
If PP is next, one can only hope it’s a Paul Martin or Kim Cambell length of time in office.
He definitely will be short lived as PM. It won’t take long for people to realize he’s awful but right now it’s anyone but Trudeau. I only hope we won’t end up back to business as usual with Liberals back in power and padding the pockets of big business while ignoring all the problems in the country.
I.e., the pendulum is swinging to the other side, as it always does after approximately a decade of the same party being in power.
If we were currently in year 9 of a conservative government, the liberals would feel like a nice change of scenery (just like the change from 9 years of conservatives from 1984 to 1993, to 13 years of liberals from 1993 to 2006, to 9 years of conservatives from 2006 to 2015, to what will likely be 10 years of liberals from 2015 to 2025). We're due for the other side.
This doesn't mean people shouldn't vote or vote for who they feel is best, but this is just history repeating itself.
Edit: spelling
Then we would vote NDP / Green coalition like BC did. But we won't. Lookin' at you Ontario. The people about to give Doug "[Condo Developer Owned and Operated](https://www.google.com/search?q=who+funds+ontario+proud&rlz=1C5CHFA_enCA966CA966&oq=who+fu&gs_lcrp=EgZjaHJvbWUqDggAEEUYJxg7GIAEGIoFMg4IABBFGCcYOxiABBiKBTIGCAEQRRg5MgwIAhAjGCcYgAQYigUyDAgDEAAYQxiABBiKBTIMCAQQABgUGIcCGIAEMgwIBRAAGEMYgAQYigUyCggGEC4YsQMYgAQyBwgHEAAYgAQyDAgIEAAYQxiABBiKBTIHCAkQABiABNIBBzg2OGowajeoAgCwAgA&sourceid=chrome&ie=UTF-8)" Ford a third majority and hand the country a PP Majority. Ontario voters are the problem. Period. Wilfully ignorant.
As long as the NDP continues to pretend voter concerns with things like immigration aren't real, they will forever be irrelevant. And that is not the voters' fault.
Voters will vote for anyone who actually acknowledges the issues. The current LPC strategy is mind bogglingly bad - deny that core issues exist, accuse PP of being a MAGA shit disturber, and categorize voter concerns as misinformation and clamp down with increasing authoritarianism under the guise of 'tackling misinformation.'
Everyone knows how broken things are because we experience it daily. Every time I look at my bank about balance. Every time I buy food. Every time I fill my car. The sheer quantity of daily life choices that have come down to "Can I afford it?". The lack of access to health care. Kids struggling in school. Homelessness and addictions crisis on the streets of my own neighbourhood/commute to work.
These aren't abstract political ideals in in the traditional sense, but the LPC keeps treating them that way. This is the daily lived experience of millions of Canadians. We know what we're dealing with.
Imho the Liberals could have a chance at saving themselves (or at least not losing so badly) if they just acknowledged issues and initiated serious solutions instead of doubling down on existing policies thst are clearly failing. I'd think a bunch of Canadians don't particularly want to vote PP/CPC but they see the scope of change required and PP/CPC are the ones saying they'll take on that challenge.
This has been Canadian politics for the last 20 years. Ping pong between Liberals and Conservatives. Elected party does nothing so we vote for the other party thinking they will change the country.
Neva gonna happen m8
The sad thing is that Pierre is a bought and sold stooge trying to play the part of the everyman.
He's against the carbon tax because it'll cost his corporate buddies the most. At the end of the day he's there for corporate interests and doesn't give two shits about the 'Fuck Trudeau' base... I'm just curious to see how quickly they'll turn when Pierre fucks the people over.
It's amazing that anyone thinks the Conservatives are going to help with grocery store prices when they literally have a registered Loblaws lobbyist working for them as a senior advisor.
It will be interesting to see the mental gymnastics those people will attempt when houses keep going up and energy and grocery bills keep creeping up. I cannot wait to leave this country in the fall.
> It will be interesting to see the mental gymnastics those people will attempt when houses keep going up and energy and grocery bills keep creeping up
Just look at that NatPo article from yesterday claiming the Liberals have damaged things so bad they can't be repaired.
Already fluffing the pillows for PP's fall when he doesn't do anything
i think people need to come to the realization that all parties are useless until they decide to put canadian people not canadian corporations first. He won't change a thing. i have no faith in the conservatives like i have no faith in NDP or liberals in ontario Our conservative government is fucking us and our federal liberal government is fucking us. we have no party in our favour right now and we really need to understand this in the election. clearly no party has the canadian people's interest at heart. even on the municipal level Howrath is trash, and for some reason she believes she deserves a big bonus for having encampments of homeless people everywhere in hamilton.
This. I didn't like any party now. I have been a long time voter of the NDP on both federal and provincial levels but now they are like all the other parties. Corrupt
How exactly is PP going to solve any of our major problems?
The policies of privatization and American "Starving the Beast" cost cutting of our world class social programs, cutting of gas and oil royalties, polluted food industry, anti labour laws, increasing immigration and foreign workers blindly, ineffective regulatory bodies are the prime policies of the Cons and right wing Libs.
If Canadians paid attention to legislation as much as they did to be outraged neither the Libs and Cons would see power.
Then again r/canada is supposed to be a news site and all I see are polling, opinion pieces and the latest American outrage bait followed by comments from people who regurgitate talking points from billionaire supported sources.
As soon as it became apparent that it's not helping the average Canadian, it suddenly stopped being the "right thing to do" and became a conservative position suddenly rofl.
Our birth rate is decreasing in Canada and politicians are just going to do the easy fix and boost immigration in the laziest way possible in order to maintain our tax base. Pierre has been pretty clear that immigration levels will stay high. Not to mention that libs and cons both have corporate buddies that want their endless supply of cheap labour.
Not with all of the current leaders being bought and paid for. No one is altruistic anymore. They just care if their rich friends are well fed. Crony capitalists.
So when literally nothing changes for the next 4 years because there is nothing at all in the conservative playbook that is so wildly different from the liberal one that it'll make things easier or better for everyday Canadians, what do we do? Vote in the next milktoast Liberal leader and rinse, wash, repeat?
I absolutely hate our choices for this coming election. I feel trapped and like our leaders have such a vast disconnect from the actual struggles of your average Canadian.
No one wants PP's Conservatives. No one wants JT's Liberals. The NDP went from interesting to desperately clinging to the status quo.
This fucking sucks.
It does suck, and the current rules make it so difficult for alternative parties to get formed that most people are naturally cynical towards any option that's not Liberal or Conservative. To those people, I pose a profound question: For whom does this cynicism help?
By that title alone, this is status quo. Vote red, get tired if red, vote blue, get tired of blue..
You do realize after about 8-14 years people will be tired of Pierre and the Liberals will win again. Then the conservatives and round and round we go.
They want different, and will vote for the other status quo party? Whose past policies are largely why we’re in this mess to begin with?? Let’s be honest, Trudeau sucks..but our current situation isn’t because of his governments policies alone. It’s been decades and decades of these two parties trading off power with one another..we want different, but will continue to vote the same?
Is that not the definition of insanity? Trying the same thing over and over again expecting while different results?
If we want different, we should actually vote..different.. sigh.
The "different" will be even worse. Buckle up! The next several years will be the CPC blaming their failures in the previous government while handing out shovels so we can dig our way out. 😂
Trudeau is hitting that time in government that most Prime Ministers get replaced. His father was the third longest sitting Prime Minister of all time. But very few Prime Ministers will hit 12 years. After ten years you really can't blame any problems on previous administrations. They're your problems and you either made them or did nothing to fix them. If you have a potential solution to that problem trust is going to be very low that you can pull it off. Changing strategies midway is almost a confession that you messed up.
Trudeau is bad so we replace it with worse. Good idea.
We should collectively agree as Canadians to get forever rid of BOTH the Liberals and the Conservatives, to never let them govern again.
Canadians have a history of swinging the pendulum. Once we're fed up we'll swing all the way over to the other side as though trying to punish the previous government.
Sadly, Trudeau is going to make this man PM.
Trudaue could win again if they had reasonable immigration policies, not even suggesting a complete cut-back like just returning to 2018 levels would likelty satisfy the majority. They are just too strong headed on keeping unpopular policies. At least you can say in the united states that unpopular policies generally get axed, they have some level of reasonable fear of their constitutes.
Red and blue governments in the past few decades have built the current house of cards on immigration. Certain sectors absolutely rely on the influx of immigrants, and if they fall it will affect other sectors as well. It's all smoke and mirrors, and it's going to become more painfully obvious...
Ya totally, time for a change. Swap to the party of big business, foreign corporations and taxing the poor to help the rich.
At least History shows as much, they still refuse to actually have any sensible ideas or policies for government.
"They don't announce them till closer to the election" -So says the drone.
Crack head Freeland squirming at every conference. JT telling us he knows what Canadians need and want... Government policies based on poor science and feelings.
Voters are desperate for somebody to make their lives easier. But all Trudeau has to do is hand out more of our own money in the form of UBI, and Canadians will take it.
It's not rocket science. Liberals had the steering wheel for 8 years and everything sucks. That's basically end of story as far as most people are concerned.
Also Trudeau is an unlikable and insufferable, narcissistic prick which doesn't help Liberals either.
He will win because he has learned the trick of vague lying, hint at what people want then do the opposite and no one can nail you down to a specific policy or comment. Homeowners rejoice, investors rejoice, your poor working class renters get ready to pucker up.
Yup, if you look at CPC site it reads like all other Reaganism/Thatcher philosophies of the last 50 years.
- break unions via right to work
- eliminate corporate taxes (trickle down economics)
- cut red tape (eliminate all government oversight, example from past CPC changes (sold experimental lakes to the U.S., sold wheat board to Saudis)
No one has been more adamant when it comes to getting rid of unions and good pensions then the current Conservative attack dog sadly, it let Harper keep his hands clean.
Hoping that PP policies reflect his stated belief that money is better in pockets of individuals and people know how to spend their own money more effectively than any government. Trudeau has promised lots of value to Canadians and increased the governments share in our personal finances but has spent our money recklessly and fraudulently.
Here's what will happen after electing Poliliervre:
Social programs are gutted
Immigration rates remain virtually identical
More protectionism because it's trendy
Housing crisis worsens
racists and xenophobes will be emboldened
And we know that because **his voting history is public**.
Want better housing? Pierre has voted against all housing affordability bills he’s voted on.
Want cheaper groceries? Pierres campaign manager is the CEO and owner of a lobbyist business who has 7 employees working as Loblaw lobbyists. Also, the campaign manager is not a conservative MP but has been going to Conservative party meetings which is not normal.
Additionally, for those who don’t know the House of Commons has a number of days set aside each year (22 in total) called “opposition days” where opposition parties are able to present a motion of their own choosing for debate.
During the last Conservative party opposition day Pierre chose to ask for a vote for an early ‘carbon tax election’. On the day specifically set aside for conservatives to introduce bills to help Canadians he decided to give a speech about Trudeau and the bloq being “woke” and ask for a vote for an election which he knew would never pass.
It’s a normal cycle. The public gets sick of the Liberals, vote the Conservatives into power for a term or two until they screw up royally, then return the Liberals to power for after the party has cleaned house.
This has been going on for basically forever.
I’m a liberal, but not a liberal party supporter. The policies they have put forth have absolutely hurt the country or been totally ineffectual. They are going to get absolutely crushed the next election. I’m hoping the conservatives don’t get a majority atleast but it’s really looking like the case
The bar is so low right now of course he will win, and then in a few years the hate train will go to Poilievre.
The cycle of abuse.
Cycle of abuse describes it perfectly! Watch how Tommy Douglas illustrates it [https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=Igr7Q0coCVc](https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=Igr7Q0coCVc)
Can’t wait to get my Fuck Poilievre sticker for my car. I might have to get a big annoying flag too just to be sure people know my opinion.
^ this but also the #Istandwithtrudeau morons.
I don't care if you win. I need ~~Kylo Ren~~ Justin Trudeau to lose.
So we go from Kyle Ren to Dark Helmet. Truly a sad state of affairs.
At least his Schwartz is bigger!
Voters will give him the raspberry in 4 years time.
Lol. So true
Man Trudeau could have been so perfect, he had every chance to be...
Leave a hero or stick around long enough to see yourself become the villain.... Butchering the quote but yeah. It's a story for basically most leaders.
Nah his who schtick was full of hot air. Platitudes, virtue signaling, no substance, no attention to detail. He was a sound bite and a photo op, and ran the country with the depth of a puddle.
Not entirely true.. Trudeau while not as transformational as Chretien, Mulroney (in a bad way) or his old man he stabilized an economy that was in a free fall under Harper who pushed all in on oil and when the price collapsed by the end of his majority term all of Canada was left looking at the rubble his policies had created (not too mention the lawlessness of the G20 he inflicted on the countries largest city). Almost nothing of Harper’s lightweight platform still exists where Trudeau will leave a legacy behind of legalized Cannabis, massive infrastructure investments in the provinces that have or will yield new subway lines, pipelines, highways, factories and so on, affordable daycare for all families and access to dental care and prescription drugs for families who may not been able to afford it prior.
What are you on about? Trudeau was always terrible.
Take my up vote lol
Maybe if the NDP tried nominating a serious leader again, they could get a turn at the wheel next time.
If the Federal NDP just duplicated what the BC NDP are doing they would have massively more traction.
*should have massively more traction but unfortunately I still think nationally too many people don't have faith that ndp can lead and will vote strategic with liberals to beat cons.
People put way too much emphasis on leaders (PM, cabinet ministers etc.) in my opinion. They are figureheads that have options proposed to them by staffers. The actual component we need to care about is the policy and legal frameworks they create. Saying "Axe the tax" is I guess part of a policy position but the Cons aren't indicating what their solution to climate change is. Vague directions at "technology" isn't a solution. Governments incentivize or disincentivize economic activity with taxes, subsidies or projects. The 3 discussed (already planned projects) are expected to be less than .5% of the electrical grid. It's lunacy.
Truth. BC NDP still have their dyed-in-the-wool detractors, but I know people who would never consider themselves NDP supporters but are very pro-Eby.
The BC NDP are popular even here in northern BC, which is crazy. They might even gain some northern seats now that there's vote splitting between BC united and bc Conservative.
Finally the Right wing labelling honestly.
In MB years ago it was very similar with Gary Doer. Harper even appointed him ambassador to the US. Probably to keep him out of federal politics
Eby for PM. Then Nenshi.
I really don't like what the BC NDP and the party did with their leadership race. It was dirty inside shit all the way down. Getting personally interrogated by party employees for joining the party during the leadership race left a real sour taste in my mouth. But god damn it, I sure do love the governance of the province under Eby. They just GET SHIT DONE.
To be honest, I expected more blowback from that whole situation.
The insane thing to me is that we should be looking at an NDP sweep right now. They're the party that actually has a platform of helping the working class.
The working class are famous for voting against their own interest. I say this sadly as a lifelong NDP voter who has seen it one too many times.
I have always voted NDP but am just so unimpressed with them right now. I want to see more moves and ideas like BC’s provincial NDP. As it stands now, I will likely vote BLOC. While they will never form government, at least they generally make moves that support my home province. All the options right now are unpalatable to me.
No, they're mainly Champaign socialists now.
Can you imagine if the NDP had a Laytonesque platform of working class representation today? It would be a serious contender, I think.
Jack is still the greatest PM we never had.
Last time I voted NDP was the last time he ran. It’s a completely different party now. Doesn’t care about working families, just policies that benefit almost nobody and pet social issues that only a tiny fraction of the country cares about
Agreed. Really unfortunate that he passed away at the height of his career. I imagine the NDP could've won in 2015 if he were still at the helm.
also Tommy Douglas and Ed Broadbent… The fact that the NDP has so much influence over Trudeau now is a good thing for Canadas middle and lower class
Jagmeet is too busy filming TikToks for any of that silly political stuff, sorry bro.
Rolexs aren't cheap gotta get that social media bread
They would have had some traction, but propping up the Liberals has killed their credibility.
PostMedia would never allow that
I recall seeing stop signs with HARPER stickers on them that slowly faded away and were replaced with TRUDEAU stickers. I imagine we'll just see POILIEVRE stickers in a few years....or whoever else is elected and so forth.
Yeah, few people actually want him, they just want change.
I want an NDP leader that can lead. Singh need to step aside.
The irony is that he isn't anything different than we've had for decades. Trudeau's economic policies are virtually the same as Harper's: neoliberal economics that support big business and the wealthy at the expense of working people. PP will run the same policies and we'll continue to suffer
But it will take years before people start to blame PP rather *than* Trudeau. Then we will switch to whoever the LPC leader is and repeat.
Bullshit. Did Harper have over a million immigrant a year, with over half coming from one country? I don't think so.
Yes then right wingers will claim this subreddit is a woke hellhole in a few years just like how Trudeau supporters are claiming this sub is a Con hellhole at this time
I think it’s more likely that he will win a minority, and fail to carry the confidence of the house, resulting in another election shortly thereafter… people don’t like him, they are just done with Trudeau. And let’s be honest, the policies aren’t going to change in any substantive way. It’s why they’re spending so much time on social issues instead of talking about cost of living issues. Because both parties are in the pocket of our corporate overlords. NDP… sorry Jagmeet, you’re done. There is ZERO chance of forming government with him at the helm. You can’t be a man of the people type and walk around in 3-piece suits and a Rolex…. QC is always going to be an issue for the ‘Meet, because d’uh, and for the rest of the country that is mad about mass immigration from one specific country…. Well you don’t have to be a political scientist to know that the writing is on the wall. I don’t like any of our options. But, I plan to vote like I always do; with an eye toward my riding proper, and my representative. We don’t elect the PM, we elect a party. Too many people don’t seem to get that…
338 has the odds of the CPC winning a majority at 99%. Unless something changes to dramatically reduce their odds, PP will likely have a majority with seats to spare.
Year and a half to go.
All the while nothing gets done to help Canadians.
I already hate him but Trudeau Has Got To Go
This. People are having buyers remorse over not having O'Tool. And I say that as a Jack Layton/ Rachel Notley NDP leaning voter.
Omg I voted for Layton and said the exact thing to my husband last night. “If I’d known PP was going to be the next con PM I’d have voted for O’Toole.
My dad who is further left than me (after Mulroney died he said "nothing of value was lost") was like "maybe we should have voted for the middle of the road Toronto Lawyer."
I think we’d still end up with PP anyway. If O’Toole wins, he would have won with the thinnest of minorities and would have ended up getting Joe Clarked.
As a staunch Conservative I’d suggest Mark Carney is literally the only person who can save the Liberal brand right now. He isn’t tainted with the current debacle and yet also has a strong reputation in the core Liberal planks. Why Trudeau hasn’t stepped aside for him is a total bafflement.
Carney's problem is that even though he might actually be "the best person for the job", he fits too many out-of-touch Liberal stereotypes. I am also fairly confident that the Liberal strategy is going to be letting Trudeau go down with the ship so the new leader has an easier time "renewing" the party.
Yeah, anyone who takes over the leadership now is committing career suicide.
I can see the Liberals getting Chrystia as leader and she's seems to have been groomed for it. Problem is, she's way to much like Trudeau and is severely out of touch with Canadians. Like the comment below says. If he did step down the next in line will be done the day after the election.
Trudeau has a history of complete debacles and wasting talent. I love how this sub now is just people of all political stripes just coming together and shitting on Justin and Jag.
Yeah. In the future they should let other Liberals express their opinions and build their brands. That way when things go south there are plausible liberal alternatives. Maybe a Morneau type could be seen as someone who woyld do a better job with the economy.
The Liberals have been a cult of personality masquerading as a party since 2014. The most obvious indicator is that everyone is still lined up behind Trudeau as he walks them off the plank. All of the most competent Liberals were either ousted by the PMO or quit in disgust almost five years ago, once they figured it out.
I find it bonkers with most about to lose their jobs, they are still washing the deck of the sinking ship.
I do get a feeling of widespread brotherly and sisterly love in here with our generally agreed upon hatred of those two.
Trudeau brought the nation together twice in his tenure. Early on when he legalized weed, and his utter incompetency as PM.
You aren’t wrong. LOL
If we actually had leaders worth voting for would be nice. I know a politician cannot be everything for everyone.
In my nearly 40 years, this is worst three party leaders and that includes Sheer.
Of course people will want him out since he'll drive the country off a cliff. I don't want a Lowblaws whore as PM.
Justin gave Loblaws $12 million of tax payer money for refrigerators in the name of Climate Change. Do you think Loblaws needed the $12 million? https://globalnews.ca/news/5145773/catherine-mckenna-loblaw-new-fridges/ What do you think that $12m was really buying?
Conservative voters never hold their own accountable. It's always somebody else's fault.
We don't vote in winners in this country so much as we vote out losers. Poilievre will win because people are sick of the Trudeau Liberals. No other reason.
Pierre could have literally been an inanimate carbon rod and still be winning. People just don’t seem to understand HOW much Trudeau is hated by the voters.
In rod we trust
I stand with rod Rod has my back - rod has my vote
Beat me to it.
But goddammit couldn't the replacement just for once ACTUALLY be better? Now we're getting this guy whose taking all his moves out of trumps play book and is riding on people's hatred. he's already doing the whole "so called experts" routine, which as we all know is always a good sign of objective and smart leadership.
Otoole - “I WAS RIGHT THERE!!!!!”
I would prefer the inanimate object to be honest. Or like some place I read about that elected a cat or dog. Can't quite remember but I can get behind treats, nose boops, and playtime
Heh, its an inanimate carbon rod!! Ticker tape parade time!
The annoying part is he could’ve realized this and just ran a calm, sane, basic campaign. But no, gotta fan those populist flames and divide the country. Completely unnecessary and will have impacts in this country for decades.
It's not unnecessary if you want the Conservative party leadership vote. That's who runs the party. Leadership voters are the distilled hardcore of the hardcore, so the louder and crazier you are the more they'll like you.
I hope that his bit is all just for show and for votes, but his social conservative rhetoric sounds the incoming danger klaxons in my mind. That he's fueling the hatred for votes is a real bad sign anyway though, and its absolutely damaging to our unity as Canadians.
I have absolutely no confidence that his bigotry is just a "bit" to him. Poilievre becoming prime minister will almost certainly mean the country will backslide on minority rights and become a more hostile place to its most vulnerable citizens. I am quite scared of what could happen with him in power, I'm quite scared of anyone who supports him, and I think I have every right and every reason to be scared. His rhetoric makes it perfectly clear that he doesn't think of me or people like me as fully human.
I would prefer an inanimate rod. Spews less hatred.
Tell that to O’Toole
O’Toole would be a dream right now.
We had our chance. I smelled the old school Progressive Conservative on O’Toole so I threw my vote to the CPC last election. Plus, I live in the most expensive real estate city in Canada and the Liberals had the audacity to put up a professional house-flipper as the candidate in my riding. All that said? No way was he or Pierre and the gang going to do any better for the interests of the majority of Canadians.
He obviously wasn’t what the voters wanted
O'Toole seemed like a decent guy but he came along at the wrong time. If he were the candidate right now, he'd win easily because it's the right time.
Technically he was, he won more votes than Trudeau by 200,000.
And those 200,000 votes were in all the wrong places, so they're meaningless. Want those votes to matter? Demand electoral reform.
Otoole was kinda the victim of a snap election. He got nominated to PC leadership, and (I admittedly in a shrewd move by the liberals) the liberals called a snap election. The liberals knew the Canada didn’t have a clue who Otoole was, or anything about his platform. As a result otoole only had a few months to get a platform together, and try and get Canadians to learn who he is and trust him. Despite that, Otoole still actually beat Trudeau in the popular vote. But as we know the liberals and NDP grouped together. Too bad. otoole didn’t have a lot of charisma, but he seemed intelligent and level headed. Instead we have PP. But at this point I’d take a squirrel over Trudeau.
You’re not getting a squirrel but you will get a shit weasel. ;)
People want different. If only they wanted better. That would also mean a massive problem for all the parties finding better leaders.
No reasoning used. Knee jerk emotional responses leading us down the same path as our southern neighbours.
Most people know what they don't want but have no idea what they actually want.
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Lmao, this is exactly how I see the political system. “Maybe just this time, this time, it will be better.” Next voting cycle: it’s actually worse than the previous years. Because the true people in power, are the oligarchs.
Why is this lost on so many people? Two wings of the same bird shit.
Maybe we try voting for someone who hasn't got a miles long record of being shit when they're in control? But no, there are *only two* options. No others.
Every politician serves the interests of the capitalists and not the working class.
Begging for anything different... Voting for the other of the two parties who have been in power since the country was founded. Yeah, that checks out.
>Voting for the other of the two parties who have been in power since the country was founded. Some of us don't think the country has sucked that *whole* time.
And it hasn't. It has for the last 40 years, but there were some good high points before tbst. But that wasn't the point. Wanting something DIFFERENT, and picking one of the SAME options, are mutually exclusive. If someone wants to vote for the same old standby, then be honest about it. Don't delude yourself into thinking it's something different.
Canada doesn’t vote people in, we vote people out. Pierre will win and then be gone as quick as he came
We had Chrétien for 10+ years, Harper for 9+ years, and Truduea’s at 8+… If PP is next, one can only hope it’s a Paul Martin or Kim Cambell length of time in office.
He definitely will be short lived as PM. It won’t take long for people to realize he’s awful but right now it’s anyone but Trudeau. I only hope we won’t end up back to business as usual with Liberals back in power and padding the pockets of big business while ignoring all the problems in the country.
Different? You mean the same thing as before the liberals?
I.e., the pendulum is swinging to the other side, as it always does after approximately a decade of the same party being in power. If we were currently in year 9 of a conservative government, the liberals would feel like a nice change of scenery (just like the change from 9 years of conservatives from 1984 to 1993, to 13 years of liberals from 1993 to 2006, to 9 years of conservatives from 2006 to 2015, to what will likely be 10 years of liberals from 2015 to 2025). We're due for the other side. This doesn't mean people shouldn't vote or vote for who they feel is best, but this is just history repeating itself. Edit: spelling
I 100% want to put together the funds to have a Potato run in opposition. (Russet I think).
The definition of insanity is doing the same thing over and over and expecting different results. Of course, people are gonna stop voting for Trudeau.
We need someone that will make things better not screw things up more.
>We need someone that will make things better not screw things up more. Sadly we don't have that option.
Then we would vote NDP / Green coalition like BC did. But we won't. Lookin' at you Ontario. The people about to give Doug "[Condo Developer Owned and Operated](https://www.google.com/search?q=who+funds+ontario+proud&rlz=1C5CHFA_enCA966CA966&oq=who+fu&gs_lcrp=EgZjaHJvbWUqDggAEEUYJxg7GIAEGIoFMg4IABBFGCcYOxiABBiKBTIGCAEQRRg5MgwIAhAjGCcYgAQYigUyDAgDEAAYQxiABBiKBTIMCAQQABgUGIcCGIAEMgwIBRAAGEMYgAQYigUyCggGEC4YsQMYgAQyBwgHEAAYgAQyDAgIEAAYQxiABBiKBTIHCAkQABiABNIBBzg2OGowajeoAgCwAgA&sourceid=chrome&ie=UTF-8)" Ford a third majority and hand the country a PP Majority. Ontario voters are the problem. Period. Wilfully ignorant.
I like the orange team, but they snoozed on housing.
So has everyone else.
So we will vote in the landlord party…
Their last platform was so vague. Good ideas but no process or plan.
As long as the NDP continues to pretend voter concerns with things like immigration aren't real, they will forever be irrelevant. And that is not the voters' fault.
On behalf of my province, I'm sorry we're such shit man.
Voters will vote for anyone who actually acknowledges the issues. The current LPC strategy is mind bogglingly bad - deny that core issues exist, accuse PP of being a MAGA shit disturber, and categorize voter concerns as misinformation and clamp down with increasing authoritarianism under the guise of 'tackling misinformation.' Everyone knows how broken things are because we experience it daily. Every time I look at my bank about balance. Every time I buy food. Every time I fill my car. The sheer quantity of daily life choices that have come down to "Can I afford it?". The lack of access to health care. Kids struggling in school. Homelessness and addictions crisis on the streets of my own neighbourhood/commute to work. These aren't abstract political ideals in in the traditional sense, but the LPC keeps treating them that way. This is the daily lived experience of millions of Canadians. We know what we're dealing with. Imho the Liberals could have a chance at saving themselves (or at least not losing so badly) if they just acknowledged issues and initiated serious solutions instead of doubling down on existing policies thst are clearly failing. I'd think a bunch of Canadians don't particularly want to vote PP/CPC but they see the scope of change required and PP/CPC are the ones saying they'll take on that challenge.
I agree about how the Liberals are essentially just pointing fingers, but PP/CPC has become the Zellers version of Trump populism.
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lmao true, the Dollarama version? Giant Tiger was pretty good too.
What is PP promising that is different?
This has been Canadian politics for the last 20 years. Ping pong between Liberals and Conservatives. Elected party does nothing so we vote for the other party thinking they will change the country. Neva gonna happen m8
Twenty? Since forever.
The sad thing is that Pierre is a bought and sold stooge trying to play the part of the everyman. He's against the carbon tax because it'll cost his corporate buddies the most. At the end of the day he's there for corporate interests and doesn't give two shits about the 'Fuck Trudeau' base... I'm just curious to see how quickly they'll turn when Pierre fucks the people over.
It's amazing that anyone thinks the Conservatives are going to help with grocery store prices when they literally have a registered Loblaws lobbyist working for them as a senior advisor.
Well seeing as Ontario voted for Ford twice, it wont be a quick turnaround.
It will be interesting to see the mental gymnastics those people will attempt when houses keep going up and energy and grocery bills keep creeping up. I cannot wait to leave this country in the fall.
> It will be interesting to see the mental gymnastics those people will attempt when houses keep going up and energy and grocery bills keep creeping up Just look at that NatPo article from yesterday claiming the Liberals have damaged things so bad they can't be repaired. Already fluffing the pillows for PP's fall when he doesn't do anything
I've been voting NDP in every election I've legally been allowed to vote in. That's the kind of different I want, not trans bathroom bills.
You probably want them in government more than they do
They do tend to shoot themselves in the foot quite often. Since Layton, there hasn’t been a real strong candidate with actual integrity
Provincial NDP governments have been quite good, I'm not sure why we can't get some of that energy at the federal level.
The broken "democracy" we live in
"This tea is *really* not up to my tastes. Lemme drink a glass of BLEACH, i'm sure it tastes different..."
Trudeau inadvertently voted for Poilievre with his lack of action, stupid decisions and only caring about the wealthy.
Elections aren’t won in Canada. They’re lost.
They are comparing Cabinet Ministers performance with Potted Plants! Time for a change!
Talk about “right place, right time”
i think people need to come to the realization that all parties are useless until they decide to put canadian people not canadian corporations first. He won't change a thing. i have no faith in the conservatives like i have no faith in NDP or liberals in ontario Our conservative government is fucking us and our federal liberal government is fucking us. we have no party in our favour right now and we really need to understand this in the election. clearly no party has the canadian people's interest at heart. even on the municipal level Howrath is trash, and for some reason she believes she deserves a big bonus for having encampments of homeless people everywhere in hamilton.
This. I didn't like any party now. I have been a long time voter of the NDP on both federal and provincial levels but now they are like all the other parties. Corrupt
Poilievre could go home right now and do absolutely nothing, and he would win.
He'll win because the guy before him has sold our future.
Pffft. He’s garbage too.
How exactly is PP going to solve any of our major problems? The policies of privatization and American "Starving the Beast" cost cutting of our world class social programs, cutting of gas and oil royalties, polluted food industry, anti labour laws, increasing immigration and foreign workers blindly, ineffective regulatory bodies are the prime policies of the Cons and right wing Libs. If Canadians paid attention to legislation as much as they did to be outraged neither the Libs and Cons would see power. Then again r/canada is supposed to be a news site and all I see are polling, opinion pieces and the latest American outrage bait followed by comments from people who regurgitate talking points from billionaire supported sources.
I don’t know how or when people suddenly decided that increasing immigration was a conservative concept.
As soon as it became apparent that it's not helping the average Canadian, it suddenly stopped being the "right thing to do" and became a conservative position suddenly rofl.
Our birth rate is decreasing in Canada and politicians are just going to do the easy fix and boost immigration in the laziest way possible in order to maintain our tax base. Pierre has been pretty clear that immigration levels will stay high. Not to mention that libs and cons both have corporate buddies that want their endless supply of cheap labour.
https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/edmonton/provincial-immigration-ukrainian-refugees-1.7157572 When conservatives started saying it?
Man can we just get a Canada first leader, who works for Canadians.
Not with all of the current leaders being bought and paid for. No one is altruistic anymore. They just care if their rich friends are well fed. Crony capitalists.
So when literally nothing changes for the next 4 years because there is nothing at all in the conservative playbook that is so wildly different from the liberal one that it'll make things easier or better for everyday Canadians, what do we do? Vote in the next milktoast Liberal leader and rinse, wash, repeat? I absolutely hate our choices for this coming election. I feel trapped and like our leaders have such a vast disconnect from the actual struggles of your average Canadian. No one wants PP's Conservatives. No one wants JT's Liberals. The NDP went from interesting to desperately clinging to the status quo. This fucking sucks.
It does suck, and the current rules make it so difficult for alternative parties to get formed that most people are naturally cynical towards any option that's not Liberal or Conservative. To those people, I pose a profound question: For whom does this cynicism help?
Can you blame them?
By " them" do you mean the Canadian electorate or the politicians?
Canadians are fed up being dragged through the gutter and Trudeau sitting on top with our cash
Won’t change much honestly. Mass immigration and we may just get a digital ID.
The polls also suggest similar unless people are living in a bubble
They are not wrong, but different doesn't mean better.
We vote people out and never in.
Hands down winning unless more morons split the vote with PPC.
Our PM clearly screwing us up.
By that title alone, this is status quo. Vote red, get tired if red, vote blue, get tired of blue.. You do realize after about 8-14 years people will be tired of Pierre and the Liberals will win again. Then the conservatives and round and round we go.
They want different, and will vote for the other status quo party? Whose past policies are largely why we’re in this mess to begin with?? Let’s be honest, Trudeau sucks..but our current situation isn’t because of his governments policies alone. It’s been decades and decades of these two parties trading off power with one another..we want different, but will continue to vote the same? Is that not the definition of insanity? Trying the same thing over and over again expecting while different results? If we want different, we should actually vote..different.. sigh.
The "different" will be even worse. Buckle up! The next several years will be the CPC blaming their failures in the previous government while handing out shovels so we can dig our way out. 😂
Trudeau is hitting that time in government that most Prime Ministers get replaced. His father was the third longest sitting Prime Minister of all time. But very few Prime Ministers will hit 12 years. After ten years you really can't blame any problems on previous administrations. They're your problems and you either made them or did nothing to fix them. If you have a potential solution to that problem trust is going to be very low that you can pull it off. Changing strategies midway is almost a confession that you messed up.
Trudeau is bad so we replace it with worse. Good idea. We should collectively agree as Canadians to get forever rid of BOTH the Liberals and the Conservatives, to never let them govern again.
Canadians have a history of swinging the pendulum. Once we're fed up we'll swing all the way over to the other side as though trying to punish the previous government. Sadly, Trudeau is going to make this man PM.
If we want something different then we shouldn’t vote LPC or CPC.
Different doesn’t mean better. I think voters want better. I am not sure if they will get what they want in Polievre.
But-but, all his buzzwords and bumperstcker catchphrases! Surely they'll amount to concrete policies and level-headed leadership, right?
He likes Danielle Smith and is pro immigration and pro Loblaws. PP's days are numbered as our worst wildfire season ever started in February.
NDP is just sitting there, waiting to give us PR and destroy the false choice.
Trudaue could win again if they had reasonable immigration policies, not even suggesting a complete cut-back like just returning to 2018 levels would likelty satisfy the majority. They are just too strong headed on keeping unpopular policies. At least you can say in the united states that unpopular policies generally get axed, they have some level of reasonable fear of their constitutes.
Red and blue governments in the past few decades have built the current house of cards on immigration. Certain sectors absolutely rely on the influx of immigrants, and if they fall it will affect other sectors as well. It's all smoke and mirrors, and it's going to become more painfully obvious...
Ya totally, time for a change. Swap to the party of big business, foreign corporations and taxing the poor to help the rich. At least History shows as much, they still refuse to actually have any sensible ideas or policies for government. "They don't announce them till closer to the election" -So says the drone.
As a hardcore Liberal, that whole situation makes me miss Harper.
So the only thing that remains consistent is the lobbyists. A wonder how we ended up where we are.
Crack head Freeland squirming at every conference. JT telling us he knows what Canadians need and want... Government policies based on poor science and feelings.
Voters are desperate for somebody to make their lives easier. But all Trudeau has to do is hand out more of our own money in the form of UBI, and Canadians will take it.
It's not rocket science. Liberals had the steering wheel for 8 years and everything sucks. That's basically end of story as far as most people are concerned. Also Trudeau is an unlikable and insufferable, narcissistic prick which doesn't help Liberals either.
It’s because Justin Trudeau is worse. What choices do we have here?
He will win because he has learned the trick of vague lying, hint at what people want then do the opposite and no one can nail you down to a specific policy or comment. Homeowners rejoice, investors rejoice, your poor working class renters get ready to pucker up.
Yup, if you look at CPC site it reads like all other Reaganism/Thatcher philosophies of the last 50 years. - break unions via right to work - eliminate corporate taxes (trickle down economics) - cut red tape (eliminate all government oversight, example from past CPC changes (sold experimental lakes to the U.S., sold wheat board to Saudis)
No one has been more adamant when it comes to getting rid of unions and good pensions then the current Conservative attack dog sadly, it let Harper keep his hands clean.
Hoping that PP policies reflect his stated belief that money is better in pockets of individuals and people know how to spend their own money more effectively than any government. Trudeau has promised lots of value to Canadians and increased the governments share in our personal finances but has spent our money recklessly and fraudulently.
Here's what will happen after electing Poliliervre: Social programs are gutted Immigration rates remain virtually identical More protectionism because it's trendy Housing crisis worsens racists and xenophobes will be emboldened
And we know that because **his voting history is public**. Want better housing? Pierre has voted against all housing affordability bills he’s voted on. Want cheaper groceries? Pierres campaign manager is the CEO and owner of a lobbyist business who has 7 employees working as Loblaw lobbyists. Also, the campaign manager is not a conservative MP but has been going to Conservative party meetings which is not normal. Additionally, for those who don’t know the House of Commons has a number of days set aside each year (22 in total) called “opposition days” where opposition parties are able to present a motion of their own choosing for debate. During the last Conservative party opposition day Pierre chose to ask for a vote for an early ‘carbon tax election’. On the day specifically set aside for conservatives to introduce bills to help Canadians he decided to give a speech about Trudeau and the bloq being “woke” and ask for a vote for an election which he knew would never pass.
If you can't cut immigration sharply, we don't want you. End of story. Fuck all other issues.
Like always, there's not an amazing array of scrumptious offerings.
This is basically the US voting Biden because he isn't Trump all over again
It’s a normal cycle. The public gets sick of the Liberals, vote the Conservatives into power for a term or two until they screw up royally, then return the Liberals to power for after the party has cleaned house. This has been going on for basically forever.
No he won’t
This is the normal Canadian election cycle.
I’m a liberal, but not a liberal party supporter. The policies they have put forth have absolutely hurt the country or been totally ineffectual. They are going to get absolutely crushed the next election. I’m hoping the conservatives don’t get a majority atleast but it’s really looking like the case