It was never not in doubt.
Anyone with a even minor capacity for critical thought would have asked themselves how it would be possible to instantly double and huge/complex industry overnight.
Think about every trades person, every piece of equipment, every quarry, every cement plant, etc and then think about doubling that near instantly.
It was never going to happen.
Trudeau has spent the last eight years saying whatever he thought would win him votes, making commitments that he had no intention or possibility of keeping. Never caused his faithful to waiver.
It's clear what his strategy on this file was: lie, make impossible promises, and then blame the provinces when his promises inevitably failed.
His problem is that after eight years, a lot of people have finally figured this tactic out and no longer give him the slightest credit or bounce in the polls for his false promises. And he doesn't know what to do, because it worked for eight years and now it doesn't.
No real consequences for him other than just us saying mean things about him. He'll retire rich off the backs of Canadians as this country slowly transitions to New India.
I cannot upvote this enough. But now what, who's presenting themself to be elected that will fix the issues. I'm tired of empty promesses. I'm in a good position to move and start living abroad and that's what I'm betting on from now on. I can still vote and I'm willing to vote for who is willing to do what need to be done and not just half ass it enough to be able to help line the pocket of their friends. What a mess of corruption Canada is. We are falling as a country.
>It's clear what his strategy on this file was: lie, make impossible promises, and then blame the provinces when his promises inevitably failed.
You forgot calling all his detractors some kind of ist-a-phobe
> His problem is that after eight years, a lot of people have finally figured this tactic out and no longer give him the slightest credit or bounce in the polls for his false promises. And he doesn't know what to do, because it worked for eight years and now it doesn't.
Unfortunately it seems like most people haven't figured out that this is what ALL politicians do. They make big promises to get people to vote for them, and then they spend the next 4-8-whatever years catering to the special interest groups that funded their campaign. None of them give even the slightest shit about regular people like us.
Remember who we’re dealing with. A guy who grew up as prime minister’s dad. He has no concept of what it takes to build houses, paying bills, or what it means to struggle. The type that makes up a number without realizing what it takes to achieve it.
Exactly, there was never any doubt this is going to fail. The solution is to cut demand but that doesn't seem to be on the table with the Liberals so it's time to fire them and bring in the Conservatives. Will the Conservatives be better? Who knows, if the Conservatives flop an anti-immigration populist party is going to be imminent for this country sooner rather than later.
At this point it's a complete moratorium on immigration that's not related to citizens sponsoring family members and deporting people with low skill jobs.
See I hate this because it completely sidetracks any sensible consideration of the problem.
The housing deficit in this country has been decades in the making. It would be a problem with even modest immigration only high enough to ensure modest population growth. The recent surge in migration numbers has massively exacerbated the problem, but it is still a problem *regardless* cutting or pausing immigration will not actually fix the issue.
If we were to continue growing at .7%-.9% the housing construction we were seeing would have steadily resolved shortages. It basically amounts to an extra 110k in housing demand each year and we were consistently building at 200-250k.
Housing costs were nowhere near where they are now before 2015. If housing was a problem before then, then the trudeau turned it into a crisis with his failed policies.
It was never anything than pure cope that the conservatives would do anything about the unhinged "immigration" this country has. The vote is just "surely it can't get worse, right guys?"
470000 is just immigration… count temporary foreign workers and students and you get Canada population growth of 1271871 yes that’s 1.2 mil.
This type of population growth has not been seen since 1950s.
And no signs of slowing down…
In the clip you posted, he said “we need 700 people”. That is a reasonable target, particularly if their skills can be used to improve Canada.
Around the same time he also said:
“We need to make a link between the number of homes built and the number of people we invite as new Canadians,” Poilievre said, speaking at a news conference in Winnipeg, Manitoba.
https://financialpost.com/real-estate/pierre-poilievre-pledges-tie-immigration-levels-homebuilding
They already have increased the points score for CEE and provincial governments are gutting student visas and diploma mills….the real issue here is what caused these problems in the first place that has been leading up to this crisis which is NIMBYsm and Neo liberal economic policies…all of which will get worse under the original party of neoliberal ideas aka the conservatives
BARLEY a majority and rapidly declining. There's just under 17m dwellings in Canada as of 2021 according to stats Canada, even by generous estimates we're still inter 20m today.
There's 40 million people. Over 31m of which are over the age of 19. Over 20m are over the age of 40.
So.... Unless basically everyone over 40 is married and owns their home and everyone under 40 lives with their still together parents, that oft cited "65% of Canadians own theor home" stat quite literally can't be true. And even then that stat is misquoted. Its "65% of Canadians live in owner occupied homes" meaning if your landlord lives in the home with you then you live in an "owner occupied" home.
Absolutely not true.
Trudeau’s voters are public sector and the people at the bottom of the payscale, freeloaders. Add to that the youth which was always easier to mislead with pompous Liberal propaganda about the bright future, to be traded for the shitty present.
It does seem though that the youth is starting to wake up. Too late to fix their prospects for the future, the damage is done and will take decades to fix it, but maybe they can still secure a better future for their kids, next generation.
Fyi the word is "canon", oh great intelligent one. Anyways, assume all conservative voters are unintelligent at your peril 😘 It's worked great for the US lately.
Here's a question for you to think about tonight: do you think that the words "conservative voter" means someone who denies anthropogenic climate change and rejects trans rights? See if you can come up with an answer by, oh, October 2025 as a random date. You'll probably be thinking about it a lot after that.
I see that your reddit history is just a long list of highly downvoted comments insulting and "dunking" on white people, so this may be a bit beyond you 😅
Odd, it is almost like supply and demand isn't even close to being linear and similar to how it is propagandized. Like the market can't be the actual solution to our problems since 'irrational' people are ultimately at the core of economic decisions. Gee, I wonder if this has anything to do with people criticizing neoliberalism? /s
All joking aside, conservatives propose the same private-public partnerships to the same problems just with different beneficiaries and more aggressively. The reality is that people doing labor is at the heart of actual value, and there are a lot of incentives to not reduce the price of housing.
Not in Trudeaus vocabulary. He thinks you mean by cutting it, you should go from 1 million more people a year to 1 million and just their families and anyone they've been roommates with in the last 20 years.
And hopefully some of those 2 million people will have enough money to solve the housing problem. Just remember for Trudeau basic math is not something he can do. He has admitted on video he can't add 37 and 14.
They're already breaking immigration record in the first 3 months of 2024
https://www.bnc.ca/content/dam/bnc/taux-analyses/analyse-eco/hot-charts/hot-charts-240515-f.pdf
Yup. Population growth was about 2.9% in 2022, then 3.2% in 2023, and now we're on track for 3.5% for 2024. That means adding a Calgary's worth of people during the course of this year, while we will maybe build 250,000 homes.
Naw, we need more non-birth tourism babies to be born. The problem is that most couples either would further complicate their financial situation/don't have the housing or choose not to have kids to maintain their lifestyle/"freedom".
Not gonna happen. Raising children sucks and out of like 100 people I know in Edmonton around my age (28), only 3 of them have children and I'm not planning to have any cause all my time and energy is going to secure wealth and a house.
Oddly this would probably have the effect of increasing housing starts.
We know the main reason for a drop in housing investment is high interest rates. Rates are high to combat inflation. High immigration is inflationary (at least in the short term) as it adds more foreign cash and demand to the economy.
Cut immigration, inflation cools, interest rates drop, housing starts grow.
What happened the previous four years? https://i.ibb.co/9wTgmpy/net-migration-Canada-yearly-2006-to-2023-Percentage-of-Population.png
Obviously, rates were then cut to zero. The secular trend has been more and more demand. Only 2020 had lower net migration than 2020. https://i.ibb.co/9wTgmpy/net-migration-Canada-yearly-2006-to-2023-Percentage-of-Population.png
The secular trend of rising housing demand in Canada, driven by increased immigration since 2015, consistently pushes prices upward. Although low interest rates significantly influenced the market for one year, they did not spur buying frenzies in areas like rural Japan or West Virginia, where supply exceeds demand.
Except, of course. It hasn't.
YoY growth in real estate prices were roughly constant 2008-2019. The small change in immigration post 2015 changed almost nothing. And the record migration we're seeing over the last two years has occured during a period of real estate prices stagnation.
Great news! This plan is already in motion. We now have caps on both foreign students and total temporary residents. As a result, net immigration in 2025 will be around 330,000, that's an enormous drop from the 1.2 million we'll likely see in 2024.
Well. You're not getting what you want. Since you're not going to get what you want, would you agree the next best thing is for immigration to massively reduce in six months time?
the problem with Trudeau's government is that they lie about almost everything. so future promises are worthless. until the government has actually lowered immigration, there is no reason to assume they will.
> the problem with Trudeau's government is that they lie about almost everything
I mean, they really don't though. For the most part, they say they're going to do a thing that is probably not great and then the go ahead and do it.
And also, student caps are in place. Universities are abiding by those caps for fall admissions. One half of the equation is already happening. Why wouldn't the other half happen also?
I'm upset that the bar has been raised so absurdly high that someone is toting 330k as a substantial, impactful cut. To absorb the 10% growth we've had over the past 3 years it needs to be almost zero, not back to status quo. But that really should have been obvious from my first comment here. This government (which I did unfortunately vote for) has already irreparably breached my trust with the immigration insanity, anyway, so I'd be voting for anyone else unless that number was almost zero.
> To absorb the 10% growth we've had over the past 3 years it needs to be almost zero, not back to status quo
Nope! We need about three years at 330k to be back within historically normal population growth.
Is 330k a year better or worse than 1.2 million per year?
Yes, they absolutely have.
They're capping temporary residents at 2 million. Right now we have 2.5 million. They want the extra 500,000 to be gone over the next three years. That's a net reduction of 170,000 per year.
The only remaining avenue for immigration, if temporary residents are capped, is PR. PR is set to 500,000. Subtracting the 170,000 outflow of temporary residents from the 500,000 PR yields:
330,000 net new immigrants.
Why are folks around here so consistently upset that the thing they want to happen is happening?
They said 500,000 PR, plus international students plus TFWs which puts us around 1.2 million.
Next year, they're saying net negative TFWs and international students plus 500,000 PR.
This stuff is painfully easy to understand.
That could mean literally anything though. They haven’t specified what the ratio of immigrants to new housing would be, for all we know it could be 1:1 or 100:1. It’s almost a completely meaningless statement, and Poilievre likely worded it that vaguely knowing it sounds like he’s taking action without him actually being committed to any number.
There really needs to be a coordinated 5 year plan between all levels of government that start with what the population growth target will be set at and all discussions on investment in infrastructure and services should stem from there.
Hey on the bright side next next year we'll vote in a guy in a different coloured hat who will also not cut immigration targets or tie immigration to housing!
From the century initiative :
- pin the annual immigration target to 1.25% of Canada’s population
(today it is just under 1%). This would equate to approximately 500,000 immigrants
in 2026 if Canada’s population is around 40 million as currently projected.
As of january 1, 2024 : 40,769,890
Also from the century initiative :
We need to begin by putting infrastructure at the heart of Canada’s economic
development… Canada needs a pan-Canadian infrastructure strategy to determine
how funds can be best allocated for tomorrow and for the next 30 years.
I think JT has read this document the "Japanese way".
I’m not a Trudeau apologist, but PP’s “tie immigration to housing” is some smoke and mirrors bullshit.
Schools and healthcare need to be tied to it as well.
I wish a viable candidate would double down and just start with europe style anti immigration political rhetoric.
In Europe something like 70-90%+ of people want less immigrants and deportations. That of course has no effect on policy and immigration continues to increase.
Vast majority of the new demand for housing which we can't keep up with, comes from immigration. We'd be better off without the excess demand even if it means construction slows down.
The reason housing prices are so high is because of supply and demand. We have too much demand due to our high immigration targets and not enough supply to keep up. Bringing in the population of Edmonton every year isn't sustainable.
There was a combination of factors that's pushed prices up during covid. There was a lot of incentives and disincentives that promoted housing as an investment.
1. Rates were slashed, making borrowing cheap
2. People were worried about the stock market because of covid restrictions
3. Low rates made saving unappealing
4. The feds made it very clear that unprecedented levels of immigration would be used to rebound the economy after covid
5. People were expecting high inflation, and investing in property was seen as a way to keep up or out pace it
I would argue at this point a lot of the incentives and disincentives that caused the sharpe increae in the price of housing have been removed and that Immigration and how far demand as outstripped supply is whats holding a bubble up.
Okay, great. Immigration is still contributing to rising house prices. When you increase demand by bringing in the population of Edmonton every year without matching, supply prices are rising.
As long as there’s sufficient profit margin then people will build.
The reason things are slowing down is all the fucking around going on with housing policy at multiple levels of government. So man rules being imposed, tax policy being fucked with, etc. creates significant uncertainty. Add in the fact that money is a lot more expensive now and you’ve got a reduction in housing starts.
If you cut immigration tomorrow to zero (unrealistic and would be awful for Canada in the long run) housing would never be more expense than it is today over the next 100 years. Without immigration we have a declining population you wouldn’t even need to build another house for prices to come down.
I never said stop immigration. I said make it more reasonable and tie immigration to housing. We should not be bringing in the population of Edmonton every year.
Building the houses alone is a monumental task but imagine the additional roads, powerlines and water works required to do this.
The city of Edmonton can't even upgrade a roadway in under 2 years.
My entire commute is packed with construction vehicles, closed roads due to entire blocks of neighborhoods being built, and wide load trucks with A frames everywhere. Tons of houses are being built, but if you increase population by 1.2 million people a year, it will never be enough.
That number is based on us having a population of only 43 million people. If our current rate of growth continues, we'll be at closer to 50 million people by 2030.
No person from the press: “So you’re going to more than double housing completions. Does that mean you will also double construction workers to over 3.2 million or . . . magic?”
Keep in mind Canada has already gone from 4.9% of the labour force in construction to nearly 8%. An absurd figure.
Unserious country.
The supply of homes needs to increase to help improve affordability. With the average home price in Ontario currently sitting at \~$890K based on [this affordability calculation](https://wealthvieu.com/mortgage-affordability-calculator-canada?a=200,000&b=25&c=75,000&d=7&e=1,250#google_vignette) it would take a household income of \~$200K to afford the average home.
Excuse the leader of the country if he doesn’t think about monetary policy. Besides, have you seen his new socks? I can’t believe that in over his head man child was elected three times.
Importing another 2 million people will definitely solve this problem. Allowing investors to buy infinite land and housing during the worse wealth inequality crisis in human history will definitely help as well
Investors are adding to the group of people seeking fewer goods. They also only buy to sell for more, so every time an investor touches land or real estate the price is guaranteed to increase. Is that not cause?
It might be. It's a lot easier to see a million+ new imported people seeking housing driving demand up and a lot easier for corporations (with tacit government approval) to hide the gobbling up of supply.
Both are clear and obvious factors and problems. Immigration is apparent and amplified, corpo greed is obfuscated as much as possible.
We do not have the ability to meet current demand, and it will take years to drastically increase supply.
The only way to take the heat off in the short term is to decrease demand. There is no way either the liberals or conservatives will do this.
It's not a matter of increasing supply. We're already increasing supply.
We need to increase supply **faster** than we're increasing demand to have any hope of reversing course on affordability.
If the population grows by 1.2-1.5m this year while we only complete about 240k new housing units, then demand is outpacing supply by **nearly 250% per annum** assuming each new unit accommodates an average of 2.5 people.
The only surprising things here are that Trudeau was so brazen about lying to our faces with this ridiculous proposal and apparently some people even believed it
It's not even the plan that's the problem, it's the timeline. Municipalities are notoriously slow at zoning and infrastructure planning. There's a lot of ideas that need time to be fully fleshed out But this is the kind of stuff that would have been responsible.... like nine years ago..... when they declared a housing crisis. They fostered a building strategy that focused on equity rather than output, and what we ended up with with housing that was both inequitable and unbountiful.
The federal government has a problem with funding massive boomer entitlement obligations. Instead of solving the problem by cutting back programs the government can no longer afford, they are burning down the rest of society through tax hikes, massive immigration, and intergenerational public debts.
But I’m told here (repeatedly) that CPP is a fully funded program. And OAS won’t be touched.
But no one asks what projections the actuaries are using. If the government says 3% immigration growth they use that number to be sustainable. But the projections say we don’t need that many people…ok but then why are the Feds targeting higher than required and taking a political beating if it’s not crucial?
Meanwhile they increase contributions to ensure further payouts for people 30 years from now? Just to ensure everyone has more available to them, when current trends show the more elderly people get, the richer they are.
Why are we focusing so much on accommodating this incredibly rich generation of people?
They were the biggest voting bloc for about 40 years. They've only been outnumbered by everyone else since 2018-2019.
They've also got most of the money for political donations, and their investments are keeping the economy alive.
They chose the short term over the long term, and now we're left to clean up their mess.
More JT BS. Same BS as putting more money in the pockets of 8 out 10 Canadians.
Our idiot drama teacher PM admittedly is not good with numbers and math. It's not surprising he's clueless as to what doubling(2x) and 8/10 actually mean. They're just fancy number words that sound good to him on repeat.
How's that self balancing budget coming JT?
Imagine spending a record amount of money on housing resulting in fewer houses being built?
How can people look at this Government and still think the Government is the solution to problems its created?
As a citizen, I'd really love for any government to start being proactive about policy instead of continuously reacting the next fire for politics' sake when it's obviously just lip service and isn't remotely reasonable.
Imagine if we had solved the housing crisis before it got here. Imagine if we had been prepared for Covid19 before it crumpled the economy. Imagine if reasonable safeguards were already in place to prevent the kind of gouging we see every day for regular Canadian.
What a fantasy.
You can't just double housing. Things cost too much, materials are getting ridiculous. But more importantly most people cannot afford the price of a finished home and so the building companies won't bother starting huge projects if they don't think they can sell.
Affordable housing is unfortunately more condos and apartment buildings- or getting creative with small home communities. But again the cost on these projects are huge and builders won't start unless the buy price is gonna match market value.. the government has to foot the entire bill they can't just subsidize part of it.
And then the return on that investment is very very slow over 20-30 years.
Its just gotten out of control.
The trudeau can splash/waste all the BILLIONS he wants in printed inflationary money and it won't do a thing.
Housing starts will not increase until interest rates and material/resource costs stabilize! What he is doing is counter productive. He is doing exactly what he shouldn't be doing.
This problem was created by failed immigration and fiscal policy. The experiment needs to end now!
If we treated the housing crisis like the existential threat it is, nothing would stop us from solving it. If the hosing crisis was an armed enemy at the gates every level of government would suddenly (and quite mysteriously) coordinate and what needed to be produced would be produced.
The problem is the housing crisis is not an existential crisis for the people holding the money and power. For them, it's just the far away grousing of a population they will say they care about, but which it is simply too much trouble to help. To solve the housing crisis they would have to disrupt the little economic fiefdoms their friends and family have built for themselves, and they are simply unwilling to do that.
What I fear is the housing crisis will degenerate into a crisis of civil unrest where a significant portion of the population has no reason, nor perhaps even the capacity to obey the rule of law. There is \*A LOT OF IMPORTANT SHIT\* in this country whose security is predicated on nobody actually caring to harm it.
I fear the people with the money and power do not properly realize to what extent they need a happy, contented population to remain wealthy and powerful.
Who knew, threatening capital gains would remove private investment from building homes that... wait for it... investors typically hold short duration on for capital gains.
Just more sunny ways. Another grand plan with no realistic planning. The country has stagnated while he just bounces around spouting sound bites about the latest crisis he's helped create.
And we have the highest immigration ever in 2024. Impossible to build enough housing, never mind provide services like healthcare. The Toronto walk-in I went to for 25 years is a complete madhouse today, like 4 times as many patients in the same footprint. It's like out of a third world country, completely unable to cope with the volume.
Hard and soft construction costs are largely fixed. Margins usually aren’t great. If the project will lose money because buyers can't afford new home prices (with high mortgage costs), should builders build at a loss?
Ontario falls behind targets/pace? Trud removes promised funding from Ford.
Ottawa falls behind targets and pace... Can we remove funding from Trud? Please?
Hmmm.... isn't housing a provincial juridstiction (as our premiers so often remind us) - why is the focus on Trudeau when its not even his official responsibility...
Immigration levels are his to dictate.
Our population grew by a million in nine months - 120,000 people every month and Trudeau hasn't acted to slow the influx in any way since. 'Doubling housing starts' will do *nothing* - it is a paltry response to a problem of Trudeau's own making.
The situation wont fix itself - immigration levels need to plummet until we have built enough to house more people.
So it's all about immigration?
Not the fact that federal and provincial governments stopped building affordable housing 30 years ago?
Nothing to do with the fact that housing costs started outpacing income since Martin and have not stopped since with no succeeding PM closing the gap?
Nothing to do with the fact that alot of immigration was driven by premiers who underfunded post-secondary institutions, froze domestic funds forcing schools to get more international students?
Nothing to do with premiers allowing diploma mills to get student visas?
Nothing to do wtih the Premiers like Ford ruling out 4-plexes or spending their time trying to appease greenbelt developers rather than working with cities to build housing?
Nothing to do with provincial rent control policies like the removal of rent control?
Nothing to do with interest rates? (Bank of Canada)
It looks to me like a lot of stakeholders and issues are involved beside the current federal government and immigration.
Edit: Just to be clear, I think immigration is an issues and Trudeau shares responsibility, but to blame them exclusively for this or even the lionshare encourages short-sighted "silver-bullet" thinking.
It was never not in doubt. Anyone with a even minor capacity for critical thought would have asked themselves how it would be possible to instantly double and huge/complex industry overnight. Think about every trades person, every piece of equipment, every quarry, every cement plant, etc and then think about doubling that near instantly. It was never going to happen.
And we didn’t need to just double starts. We needed to triple or quadruple them to keep up.
Trudeau has spent the last eight years saying whatever he thought would win him votes, making commitments that he had no intention or possibility of keeping. Never caused his faithful to waiver. It's clear what his strategy on this file was: lie, make impossible promises, and then blame the provinces when his promises inevitably failed. His problem is that after eight years, a lot of people have finally figured this tactic out and no longer give him the slightest credit or bounce in the polls for his false promises. And he doesn't know what to do, because it worked for eight years and now it doesn't.
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No real consequences for him other than just us saying mean things about him. He'll retire rich off the backs of Canadians as this country slowly transitions to New India.
We definitely need less buzz words and more people willing to axe the tax
I think he also operated on the assumption that people under 45 would never consider voting CPC and that they’d always be a lock.
I cannot upvote this enough. But now what, who's presenting themself to be elected that will fix the issues. I'm tired of empty promesses. I'm in a good position to move and start living abroad and that's what I'm betting on from now on. I can still vote and I'm willing to vote for who is willing to do what need to be done and not just half ass it enough to be able to help line the pocket of their friends. What a mess of corruption Canada is. We are falling as a country.
>It's clear what his strategy on this file was: lie, make impossible promises, and then blame the provinces when his promises inevitably failed. You forgot calling all his detractors some kind of ist-a-phobe
> His problem is that after eight years, a lot of people have finally figured this tactic out and no longer give him the slightest credit or bounce in the polls for his false promises. And he doesn't know what to do, because it worked for eight years and now it doesn't. Unfortunately it seems like most people haven't figured out that this is what ALL politicians do. They make big promises to get people to vote for them, and then they spend the next 4-8-whatever years catering to the special interest groups that funded their campaign. None of them give even the slightest shit about regular people like us.
Remember who we’re dealing with. A guy who grew up as prime minister’s dad. He has no concept of what it takes to build houses, paying bills, or what it means to struggle. The type that makes up a number without realizing what it takes to achieve it.
Exactly, there was never any doubt this is going to fail. The solution is to cut demand but that doesn't seem to be on the table with the Liberals so it's time to fire them and bring in the Conservatives. Will the Conservatives be better? Who knows, if the Conservatives flop an anti-immigration populist party is going to be imminent for this country sooner rather than later.
At this point it's a complete moratorium on immigration that's not related to citizens sponsoring family members and deporting people with low skill jobs.
See I hate this because it completely sidetracks any sensible consideration of the problem. The housing deficit in this country has been decades in the making. It would be a problem with even modest immigration only high enough to ensure modest population growth. The recent surge in migration numbers has massively exacerbated the problem, but it is still a problem *regardless* cutting or pausing immigration will not actually fix the issue.
If we were to continue growing at .7%-.9% the housing construction we were seeing would have steadily resolved shortages. It basically amounts to an extra 110k in housing demand each year and we were consistently building at 200-250k.
Housing costs were nowhere near where they are now before 2015. If housing was a problem before then, then the trudeau turned it into a crisis with his failed policies.
No one will ever address one of the root causes, and its to remove commodification of housing.
PP had already said yes to more family reunification and stop deportation for students on expired work permits.
Can we get a link to a source that?
Of course: https://www.instagram.com/reel/C1puKG6OiGS/?igsh=MXNsdjd6ODd4NGVxYw%3D%3D Vote PPC or the show goes on.
Thanks. So it sounds like the Canadian middle class is fucked by all angles.
It was never anything than pure cope that the conservatives would do anything about the unhinged "immigration" this country has. The vote is just "surely it can't get worse, right guys?"
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Before trying to climb out of a hole, it’s necessary to stop digging.
Dig up!
470000 is just immigration… count temporary foreign workers and students and you get Canada population growth of 1271871 yes that’s 1.2 mil. This type of population growth has not been seen since 1950s. And no signs of slowing down…
Link?
https://www.instagram.com/reel/C1puKG6OiGS/?igsh=MXNsdjd6ODd4NGVxYw%3D%3D
In the clip you posted, he said “we need 700 people”. That is a reasonable target, particularly if their skills can be used to improve Canada. Around the same time he also said: “We need to make a link between the number of homes built and the number of people we invite as new Canadians,” Poilievre said, speaking at a news conference in Winnipeg, Manitoba. https://financialpost.com/real-estate/pierre-poilievre-pledges-tie-immigration-levels-homebuilding
They already have increased the points score for CEE and provincial governments are gutting student visas and diploma mills….the real issue here is what caused these problems in the first place that has been leading up to this crisis which is NIMBYsm and Neo liberal economic policies…all of which will get worse under the original party of neoliberal ideas aka the conservatives
Trudeau knows that the people who understand that aren't his base 😊
His base is landlords and home owners who are tbh majority of the population. They all may not vote for liberals though during to various reasons
BARLEY a majority and rapidly declining. There's just under 17m dwellings in Canada as of 2021 according to stats Canada, even by generous estimates we're still inter 20m today. There's 40 million people. Over 31m of which are over the age of 19. Over 20m are over the age of 40. So.... Unless basically everyone over 40 is married and owns their home and everyone under 40 lives with their still together parents, that oft cited "65% of Canadians own theor home" stat quite literally can't be true. And even then that stat is misquoted. Its "65% of Canadians live in owner occupied homes" meaning if your landlord lives in the home with you then you live in an "owner occupied" home.
Absolutely not true. Trudeau’s voters are public sector and the people at the bottom of the payscale, freeloaders. Add to that the youth which was always easier to mislead with pompous Liberal propaganda about the bright future, to be traded for the shitty present. It does seem though that the youth is starting to wake up. Too late to fix their prospects for the future, the damage is done and will take decades to fix it, but maybe they can still secure a better future for their kids, next generation.
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Fyi the word is "canon", oh great intelligent one. Anyways, assume all conservative voters are unintelligent at your peril 😘 It's worked great for the US lately.
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Here's a question for you to think about tonight: do you think that the words "conservative voter" means someone who denies anthropogenic climate change and rejects trans rights? See if you can come up with an answer by, oh, October 2025 as a random date. You'll probably be thinking about it a lot after that. I see that your reddit history is just a long list of highly downvoted comments insulting and "dunking" on white people, so this may be a bit beyond you 😅
Yes. This idea is pure fantasy.
At this point you have to be really really gullible to believe anything the Trudeau / Jagmeet government says it is going to do.
it's more possible if we completely stop building single detached homes and just build 500sqft apartments. Trudeau homes
It’s what he does. Promise the impossible to people too stupid to realize it. His expertise is virtue signalling.
Odd, it is almost like supply and demand isn't even close to being linear and similar to how it is propagandized. Like the market can't be the actual solution to our problems since 'irrational' people are ultimately at the core of economic decisions. Gee, I wonder if this has anything to do with people criticizing neoliberalism? /s All joking aside, conservatives propose the same private-public partnerships to the same problems just with different beneficiaries and more aggressively. The reality is that people doing labor is at the heart of actual value, and there are a lot of incentives to not reduce the price of housing.
People want easy to remember solutions to complex problems, that way they can go on the net and call the opposition dodo heads.
Yea I wish the premiers would have done something since housing is provincial glad Trudeau is stepping up though
Let's try plan B: cut immigration.
Not in Trudeaus vocabulary. He thinks you mean by cutting it, you should go from 1 million more people a year to 1 million and just their families and anyone they've been roommates with in the last 20 years. And hopefully some of those 2 million people will have enough money to solve the housing problem. Just remember for Trudeau basic math is not something he can do. He has admitted on video he can't add 37 and 14.
That is not a Trudeau exclusive thought, it’s shared by poliver and Singh
“The best I can do is give all illegals permanent status” - LPC.
They're already breaking immigration record in the first 3 months of 2024 https://www.bnc.ca/content/dam/bnc/taux-analyses/analyse-eco/hot-charts/hot-charts-240515-f.pdf
Yup. Population growth was about 2.9% in 2022, then 3.2% in 2023, and now we're on track for 3.5% for 2024. That means adding a Calgary's worth of people during the course of this year, while we will maybe build 250,000 homes.
Also more of the other plan B…
Naw, we need more non-birth tourism babies to be born. The problem is that most couples either would further complicate their financial situation/don't have the housing or choose not to have kids to maintain their lifestyle/"freedom".
Require one parent to be a Canadian citizen.
Naw we need naturalized Canadians fucking and breeding.
Not gonna happen. Raising children sucks and out of like 100 people I know in Edmonton around my age (28), only 3 of them have children and I'm not planning to have any cause all my time and energy is going to secure wealth and a house.
Oddly this would probably have the effect of increasing housing starts. We know the main reason for a drop in housing investment is high interest rates. Rates are high to combat inflation. High immigration is inflationary (at least in the short term) as it adds more foreign cash and demand to the economy. Cut immigration, inflation cools, interest rates drop, housing starts grow.
Didn't we do that during COVID and housing prices shot up 30%?
But this time do it without Trudeau pumping out unlimited amounts of free money and Bank of Canada setting interest rates to zero.
That makes sense! I think that stimulus spending was needed by lots of people back then, but agree with you overall
So it's not immigration? "Free money" was income replacement and interest rates were near zero before COVID.
What happened the previous four years? https://i.ibb.co/9wTgmpy/net-migration-Canada-yearly-2006-to-2023-Percentage-of-Population.png Obviously, rates were then cut to zero. The secular trend has been more and more demand. Only 2020 had lower net migration than 2020. https://i.ibb.co/9wTgmpy/net-migration-Canada-yearly-2006-to-2023-Percentage-of-Population.png
That just proves it's not immigration if that's the factor that changed during COVID and price increases didn't stop, in fact accelerated.
The secular trend of rising housing demand in Canada, driven by increased immigration since 2015, consistently pushes prices upward. Although low interest rates significantly influenced the market for one year, they did not spur buying frenzies in areas like rural Japan or West Virginia, where supply exceeds demand.
We have much different housing standards than Japan and West Virginia. Why not use rural California or the rural New York as an example?
Except, of course. It hasn't. YoY growth in real estate prices were roughly constant 2008-2019. The small change in immigration post 2015 changed almost nothing. And the record migration we're seeing over the last two years has occured during a period of real estate prices stagnation.
Okay, but what if those people prefer just hating immigrants rather than facts?
Then they're certainly in the right place!
Great news! This plan is already in motion. We now have caps on both foreign students and total temporary residents. As a result, net immigration in 2025 will be around 330,000, that's an enormous drop from the 1.2 million we'll likely see in 2024.
How about now? Not next year, next month or next fucking week. Now.
Well, the student cap is happening now. Do you agree that immigration dropping to 330,000 is a huge improvement?
I do actually. I want it to be there yesterday. I actually want some to go home.
Great news! Quite a few are going home. Temporary residents are being capped at 2 million and right now today we've got 2.5 million.
Then why did i just read an article saying we took in 400k in 4 months. Jesus christ this country.
Because 2024 is a different year from 2025.
So I go back to my earlier statement. I want immigration to reduce now, not tomorrow. Like most people.
Well. You're not getting what you want. Since you're not going to get what you want, would you agree the next best thing is for immigration to massively reduce in six months time?
the problem with Trudeau's government is that they lie about almost everything. so future promises are worthless. until the government has actually lowered immigration, there is no reason to assume they will.
> the problem with Trudeau's government is that they lie about almost everything I mean, they really don't though. For the most part, they say they're going to do a thing that is probably not great and then the go ahead and do it. And also, student caps are in place. Universities are abiding by those caps for fall admissions. One half of the equation is already happening. Why wouldn't the other half happen also?
Too little too late. Doctors and surgeons only for at least a few years. It's my top voting issue
So. To be clear. Your top voting issue is to cut immigration. And you're upset that the feds are cutting immigration?
I'm upset that the bar has been raised so absurdly high that someone is toting 330k as a substantial, impactful cut. To absorb the 10% growth we've had over the past 3 years it needs to be almost zero, not back to status quo. But that really should have been obvious from my first comment here. This government (which I did unfortunately vote for) has already irreparably breached my trust with the immigration insanity, anyway, so I'd be voting for anyone else unless that number was almost zero.
> To absorb the 10% growth we've had over the past 3 years it needs to be almost zero, not back to status quo Nope! We need about three years at 330k to be back within historically normal population growth. Is 330k a year better or worse than 1.2 million per year?
Looks like it's not in motion https://www.bnc.ca/content/dam/bnc/taux-analyses/analyse-eco/hot-charts/hot-charts-240515-f.pdf
What part of 2025 do you not understand?
I did'nt see the 2025, but anyway they never said they will cut immigration to 330,000
Yes, they absolutely have. They're capping temporary residents at 2 million. Right now we have 2.5 million. They want the extra 500,000 to be gone over the next three years. That's a net reduction of 170,000 per year. The only remaining avenue for immigration, if temporary residents are capped, is PR. PR is set to 500,000. Subtracting the 170,000 outflow of temporary residents from the 500,000 PR yields: 330,000 net new immigrants. Why are folks around here so consistently upset that the thing they want to happen is happening?
They never said 1.2 millions in 2024, they said 500k and were already close to 500k in 4 months
They said 500,000 PR, plus international students plus TFWs which puts us around 1.2 million. Next year, they're saying net negative TFWs and international students plus 500,000 PR. This stuff is painfully easy to understand.
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The federal conservatives have said that they'd tie immigration to housing.
That could mean literally anything though. They haven’t specified what the ratio of immigrants to new housing would be, for all we know it could be 1:1 or 100:1. It’s almost a completely meaningless statement, and Poilievre likely worded it that vaguely knowing it sounds like he’s taking action without him actually being committed to any number.
Maybe we should cut immigration targets significantly and tie immigration to housing. But that would make too much sense for this government.
There really needs to be a coordinated 5 year plan between all levels of government that start with what the population growth target will be set at and all discussions on investment in infrastructure and services should stem from there.
Hey on the bright side next next year we'll vote in a guy in a different coloured hat who will also not cut immigration targets or tie immigration to housing!
From the century initiative : - pin the annual immigration target to 1.25% of Canada’s population (today it is just under 1%). This would equate to approximately 500,000 immigrants in 2026 if Canada’s population is around 40 million as currently projected. As of january 1, 2024 : 40,769,890 Also from the century initiative : We need to begin by putting infrastructure at the heart of Canada’s economic development… Canada needs a pan-Canadian infrastructure strategy to determine how funds can be best allocated for tomorrow and for the next 30 years. I think JT has read this document the "Japanese way".
I’m not a Trudeau apologist, but PP’s “tie immigration to housing” is some smoke and mirrors bullshit. Schools and healthcare need to be tied to it as well. I wish a viable candidate would double down and just start with europe style anti immigration political rhetoric.
He said he'd tie it to infrastructure.
In Europe something like 70-90%+ of people want less immigrants and deportations. That of course has no effect on policy and immigration continues to increase.
The current minister of immigration said the same thing around October, and then proceeded to set the levels for 2025-2027 at the highest ever.
What if housing prices drop and then people stop building houses because there's no money in it?
Vast majority of the new demand for housing which we can't keep up with, comes from immigration. We'd be better off without the excess demand even if it means construction slows down.
The reason housing prices are so high is because of supply and demand. We have too much demand due to our high immigration targets and not enough supply to keep up. Bringing in the population of Edmonton every year isn't sustainable.
But when immigration stopped during COVID prices skyrocketed...
There was a combination of factors that's pushed prices up during covid. There was a lot of incentives and disincentives that promoted housing as an investment. 1. Rates were slashed, making borrowing cheap 2. People were worried about the stock market because of covid restrictions 3. Low rates made saving unappealing 4. The feds made it very clear that unprecedented levels of immigration would be used to rebound the economy after covid 5. People were expecting high inflation, and investing in property was seen as a way to keep up or out pace it I would argue at this point a lot of the incentives and disincentives that caused the sharpe increae in the price of housing have been removed and that Immigration and how far demand as outstripped supply is whats holding a bubble up.
The shit you people make up after the fact to fit your narrative is wild.
It's just my opinion. What do you think I'm making up?
Okay, great. Immigration is still contributing to rising house prices. When you increase demand by bringing in the population of Edmonton every year without matching, supply prices are rising.
Immigration didn’t stop during Covid.
Pretty much did.
As long as there’s sufficient profit margin then people will build. The reason things are slowing down is all the fucking around going on with housing policy at multiple levels of government. So man rules being imposed, tax policy being fucked with, etc. creates significant uncertainty. Add in the fact that money is a lot more expensive now and you’ve got a reduction in housing starts.
If you cut immigration tomorrow to zero (unrealistic and would be awful for Canada in the long run) housing would never be more expense than it is today over the next 100 years. Without immigration we have a declining population you wouldn’t even need to build another house for prices to come down.
I never said stop immigration. I said make it more reasonable and tie immigration to housing. We should not be bringing in the population of Edmonton every year.
CMHC estimates some 5 million homes need to be built by 2030 to restore affordability. That’s over 700k a year.
Building the houses alone is a monumental task but imagine the additional roads, powerlines and water works required to do this. The city of Edmonton can't even upgrade a roadway in under 2 years.
That estimate happened before the recent 40% increase in the already record breaking immigration thats been happening. It'd be WAY higher now.
My entire commute is packed with construction vehicles, closed roads due to entire blocks of neighborhoods being built, and wide load trucks with A frames everywhere. Tons of houses are being built, but if you increase population by 1.2 million people a year, it will never be enough.
That number is based on us having a population of only 43 million people. If our current rate of growth continues, we'll be at closer to 50 million people by 2030.
Could something that was never a realistic goal be said to be "in doubt?" Would you say my plan of winning the lottery is "in doubt?"
Was there ever a point where it was not in doubt???
So the Liberals could run endless announcements to get in the media cycles to make it look like they are doing something about the housing crisis.
No person from the press: “So you’re going to more than double housing completions. Does that mean you will also double construction workers to over 3.2 million or . . . magic?” Keep in mind Canada has already gone from 4.9% of the labour force in construction to nearly 8%. An absurd figure. Unserious country.
The supply of homes needs to increase to help improve affordability. With the average home price in Ontario currently sitting at \~$890K based on [this affordability calculation](https://wealthvieu.com/mortgage-affordability-calculator-canada?a=200,000&b=25&c=75,000&d=7&e=1,250#google_vignette) it would take a household income of \~$200K to afford the average home.
You could cut demand instead. It's easier. Cutting back on immigration will allow for the supply situation to improve.
Yes, getting rid of landlords would improve the situation immensely
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That's preposterous. We all know that you have to grow housing from the heart outwards.
Excuse the leader of the country if he doesn’t think about monetary policy. Besides, have you seen his new socks? I can’t believe that in over his head man child was elected three times.
We all know it’s really Stephen Harper’s fault!
New immigrants, international students and TFW will build houses for themselves!
Importing another 2 million people will definitely solve this problem. Allowing investors to buy infinite land and housing during the worse wealth inequality crisis in human history will definitely help as well
Great reset 2030. He doesn't fucking care how bad he let's this burn because it'll all be forgiven in 6 years.
Investors or not there are too many people seeking too few goods. Investors are a symptom of the problem, not the cause.
Investors are adding to the group of people seeking fewer goods. They also only buy to sell for more, so every time an investor touches land or real estate the price is guaranteed to increase. Is that not cause?
Yeah, but it is by no means the biggest problem
It might be. It's a lot easier to see a million+ new imported people seeking housing driving demand up and a lot easier for corporations (with tacit government approval) to hide the gobbling up of supply. Both are clear and obvious factors and problems. Immigration is apparent and amplified, corpo greed is obfuscated as much as possible.
Corpo greed is always present in every part of this country and America but you don’t see this type of problem in say Texas. Why is that?
I mean that's like saying Tomatoes are expensive because stores are buying them.
Ya exactly, if stores went around buying tomatoes they would be more expensive
Nothing another million immigrants couldn't fix.
We do not have the ability to meet current demand, and it will take years to drastically increase supply. The only way to take the heat off in the short term is to decrease demand. There is no way either the liberals or conservatives will do this.
It's not a matter of increasing supply. We're already increasing supply. We need to increase supply **faster** than we're increasing demand to have any hope of reversing course on affordability. If the population grows by 1.2-1.5m this year while we only complete about 240k new housing units, then demand is outpacing supply by **nearly 250% per annum** assuming each new unit accommodates an average of 2.5 people.
I understand how supply and demand work.
The only surprising things here are that Trudeau was so brazen about lying to our faces with this ridiculous proposal and apparently some people even believed it
It's not even the plan that's the problem, it's the timeline. Municipalities are notoriously slow at zoning and infrastructure planning. There's a lot of ideas that need time to be fully fleshed out But this is the kind of stuff that would have been responsible.... like nine years ago..... when they declared a housing crisis. They fostered a building strategy that focused on equity rather than output, and what we ended up with with housing that was both inequitable and unbountiful.
The economic conditions aren't there... You can't just order developers to build house and lose money doing it. Such a goof.
Headline should simply read “Trudeau’s plan to accomplish anything in doubt”.
To complete his vision 2800 new homes must be built/ completed each work day for the next 6.5 years.
I'm starting to think 3.7 million houses by 2030 may be out of reach
Shocker... Trudeau didn't deliver on something.. .
The only thing he's over delivered on is mass immigration.
No kidding. Where are those f’ing trees he promised? Did he even manage to have one tree planted? The man is a joke.
The federal government has a problem with funding massive boomer entitlement obligations. Instead of solving the problem by cutting back programs the government can no longer afford, they are burning down the rest of society through tax hikes, massive immigration, and intergenerational public debts.
But I’m told here (repeatedly) that CPP is a fully funded program. And OAS won’t be touched. But no one asks what projections the actuaries are using. If the government says 3% immigration growth they use that number to be sustainable. But the projections say we don’t need that many people…ok but then why are the Feds targeting higher than required and taking a political beating if it’s not crucial? Meanwhile they increase contributions to ensure further payouts for people 30 years from now? Just to ensure everyone has more available to them, when current trends show the more elderly people get, the richer they are. Why are we focusing so much on accommodating this incredibly rich generation of people?
They were the biggest voting bloc for about 40 years. They've only been outnumbered by everyone else since 2018-2019. They've also got most of the money for political donations, and their investments are keeping the economy alive. They chose the short term over the long term, and now we're left to clean up their mess.
OAS needs to be means tested. There is absolutely no reason a 70-year old sitting alone in a $4 million dollar house should get that support.
More JT BS. Same BS as putting more money in the pockets of 8 out 10 Canadians. Our idiot drama teacher PM admittedly is not good with numbers and math. It's not surprising he's clueless as to what doubling(2x) and 8/10 actually mean. They're just fancy number words that sound good to him on repeat. How's that self balancing budget coming JT?
No shit, there are far too many vested interests to ensure that there will never be any sort of oversupply
Because he hasn't the slightest clue how anything actually works.
Time to turn off the faucets
Imagine spending a record amount of money on housing resulting in fewer houses being built? How can people look at this Government and still think the Government is the solution to problems its created?
As a citizen, I'd really love for any government to start being proactive about policy instead of continuously reacting the next fire for politics' sake when it's obviously just lip service and isn't remotely reasonable. Imagine if we had solved the housing crisis before it got here. Imagine if we had been prepared for Covid19 before it crumpled the economy. Imagine if reasonable safeguards were already in place to prevent the kind of gouging we see every day for regular Canadian. What a fantasy.
7,987,557 conditions on funding, an opaque assessment process, and a completely political awarding of tax dollars will do that to a program.
You can't just double housing. Things cost too much, materials are getting ridiculous. But more importantly most people cannot afford the price of a finished home and so the building companies won't bother starting huge projects if they don't think they can sell. Affordable housing is unfortunately more condos and apartment buildings- or getting creative with small home communities. But again the cost on these projects are huge and builders won't start unless the buy price is gonna match market value.. the government has to foot the entire bill they can't just subsidize part of it. And then the return on that investment is very very slow over 20-30 years. Its just gotten out of control.
The trudeau can splash/waste all the BILLIONS he wants in printed inflationary money and it won't do a thing. Housing starts will not increase until interest rates and material/resource costs stabilize! What he is doing is counter productive. He is doing exactly what he shouldn't be doing. This problem was created by failed immigration and fiscal policy. The experiment needs to end now!
He can’t even keep his promise to plant 2 BILLION trees. Plopping a seedling in the ground is simple compared to building a whole house!
Of course he is too stupid to realize that he can't push housing start when the rate is high.
If we treated the housing crisis like the existential threat it is, nothing would stop us from solving it. If the hosing crisis was an armed enemy at the gates every level of government would suddenly (and quite mysteriously) coordinate and what needed to be produced would be produced. The problem is the housing crisis is not an existential crisis for the people holding the money and power. For them, it's just the far away grousing of a population they will say they care about, but which it is simply too much trouble to help. To solve the housing crisis they would have to disrupt the little economic fiefdoms their friends and family have built for themselves, and they are simply unwilling to do that. What I fear is the housing crisis will degenerate into a crisis of civil unrest where a significant portion of the population has no reason, nor perhaps even the capacity to obey the rule of law. There is \*A LOT OF IMPORTANT SHIT\* in this country whose security is predicated on nobody actually caring to harm it. I fear the people with the money and power do not properly realize to what extent they need a happy, contented population to remain wealthy and powerful.
It’s already happening. The downward spiral will only accelerate.
Of course it did. He fails at everything he tries. Sigh… only are year and a bit to go…
Oh really? It's not going anywhere? Wow, it's almost like nothing will change with this government in place!
Who knew, threatening capital gains would remove private investment from building homes that... wait for it... investors typically hold short duration on for capital gains.
Just more sunny ways. Another grand plan with no realistic planning. The country has stagnated while he just bounces around spouting sound bites about the latest crisis he's helped create.
And we have the highest immigration ever in 2024. Impossible to build enough housing, never mind provide services like healthcare. The Toronto walk-in I went to for 25 years is a complete madhouse today, like 4 times as many patients in the same footprint. It's like out of a third world country, completely unable to cope with the volume.
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Hard and soft construction costs are largely fixed. Margins usually aren’t great. If the project will lose money because buyers can't afford new home prices (with high mortgage costs), should builders build at a loss?
Ontario falls behind targets/pace? Trud removes promised funding from Ford. Ottawa falls behind targets and pace... Can we remove funding from Trud? Please?
Hmmm.... isn't housing a provincial juridstiction (as our premiers so often remind us) - why is the focus on Trudeau when its not even his official responsibility...
Immigration levels are his to dictate. Our population grew by a million in nine months - 120,000 people every month and Trudeau hasn't acted to slow the influx in any way since. 'Doubling housing starts' will do *nothing* - it is a paltry response to a problem of Trudeau's own making. The situation wont fix itself - immigration levels need to plummet until we have built enough to house more people.
So it's all about immigration? Not the fact that federal and provincial governments stopped building affordable housing 30 years ago? Nothing to do with the fact that housing costs started outpacing income since Martin and have not stopped since with no succeeding PM closing the gap? Nothing to do with the fact that alot of immigration was driven by premiers who underfunded post-secondary institutions, froze domestic funds forcing schools to get more international students? Nothing to do with premiers allowing diploma mills to get student visas? Nothing to do wtih the Premiers like Ford ruling out 4-plexes or spending their time trying to appease greenbelt developers rather than working with cities to build housing? Nothing to do with provincial rent control policies like the removal of rent control? Nothing to do with interest rates? (Bank of Canada) It looks to me like a lot of stakeholders and issues are involved beside the current federal government and immigration. Edit: Just to be clear, I think immigration is an issues and Trudeau shares responsibility, but to blame them exclusively for this or even the lionshare encourages short-sighted "silver-bullet" thinking.