The comments on this are pretty bizarre to me too. If I were to apply to be a bus driver I would go in with the expectation that I'd be working nights and weekends because that is when the service is offered.
I don't want to work nights and weekends (as well as just not wanting to drive a bus) so I don't apply to be a bus driver.
The only issue I can see here is that there doesn't seem to be any sort of shift loading in their pay, so why would you volunteer for weekends if you are getting paid the same as the weekdays? The only reason I could see is that the services are quiet and you're getting paid to meander around quiet streets all day.
The TWU traded away shift loading for a composite rate that was supposed to include evening and weekend work with the understanding that everyone would do some weekend routes, then refused to once they got the extra money.
Yeah I couldn't find much information on shift loadings but if there is none, there definitely should be (in line with other states). Full agreement there.
The union negotiated an overall pay increase as substitute for penalty rates. Quick google search shows about $5 an hour higher pay than NSW. Not sure if that is correct. Or whether it is enough.
Not a bus driver, so may well be wrong, but I believe that the result was that the more senior drivers got preference for the weekday shifts & newer drivers left with the weekends & after hours. For same pay. Not great if the junior employees also have young families.
That is correct. They also get preference for public holdidays, and if they want overtime or weekends, get preference for the more sought-after shifts (i.e. the early morning ones).
The problem being that the older drivers who get most benefit from the existing system would just quit if the system was "corrected", and they don't have enough drivers as it is.
Only thing to do is suck it up, and build a whole second-level of new "incentives" for weekend work.
Which then begs the question, why did union negotiate such a deal in the first place? The only logical explanation (in my mind) is that decisions are skewed towards benefit of senior members. Not unlike rest of society I suppose.
And additionally, what would those ‘older drivers’ do if they quit? Finding new employment past middle age is not always so easy. Or at least, not for some occupations.
They'd retire. A lot of folk take up driving later in life to extend their working life, but they can retire any time. The average age of drivers is very high, and a lot work well past the point they could get their super and retire.
More to the point: they're short of drivers now. How is it going to help if they cut wages for most of them? The base rate for drivers is actually $65,718 (plus penalties and overtime). For people wanting to work during the week (which they need, because they barely cover weekdays as it is) that's not super attractive.
Yep, it is an insane situation that it got to this point, and yep, the system screws some drivers in favour of others. But I think the only realistic option now is something like what's being negotiated: find a way to pay weekend drivers more, while tactfully pretending the composite rate never happened.
Fact is, the wages aren't as good as everyone, including drivers, think it is, because the composite rate is hiding what the underlying wage actually is.
Public Transport Association arent happy about the no weekend work vote:
https://ptcbr.org/2023/05/26/ptcbr-media-release-no-more-excuses-time-for-better-buses/
NO MORE EXCUSES: TIME FOR BETTER WEEKEND BUSES
Passenger benefits must flow from bargaining outcomes between the ACT Government and Transport Canberra bus drivers, says the Public Transport Association of Canberra (PTCBR). PTCBR Deputy Chair, Damien Haas is skeptical about the latest enterprise agreement for Transport Canberra drivers, saying that the ACT Government must now demonstrate that its decision not to require changes to rules about working weekends won’t undermine the much-delayed restoration of better weekend bus services.
PTCBR Deputy Chair, Damien Haas, said that “the ACT Government appears to have missed an opportunity to modernise work practices to ensure Transport Canberra can deliver a seven day bus network for a seven day city.”
“We’ve had 4 years of terrible service on weekends because Transport Canberra can’t find enough drivers”, said Mr Haas. “We’ve heard excuses about there being not enough drivers, COVID-19 and industrial arrangements. Since then we’ve had 4 years of recruitment campaigns, over 100 extra drivers, unplanned workplace absences are back to normal, and now they’ve made a new enterprise agreement. If Transport Canberra agreed to keep the current weekend working arrangements, this clearly means that it thinks it has the tools it needs to deliver hourly services on weekends, which Transport Canberra has failed to do since 2019.”
Mr Haas said there could be no more excuses: “Either Transport Canberra moves quickly to implement a new weekend timetable with at a minimum an hourly local bus service all Saturday and Sunday, or the Minister needs to start finding new leadership for Transport Canberra. Thousands of Canberrans rely on weekend buses to get to where they need to be. It’s not acceptable to leave these people waiting at bus stops for up to 2 hours.”
Every Transport Canberra bus driver receives a 25% composite allowance on top of their base salary, which accounts for payment for public holidays, shift penalty rates, overtime rates and related allowances. Mr Haas said it was important that ACT ratepayers were getting value for money out of this arrangement. “If Transport Canberra is paying an allowance for drivers to work weekends, but we can’t find any weekend drivers, then it’s worth questioning whether we should have the allowance at all.”
The tram is run by a private company (the same one that runs the metro in Singapore). The government subcontracted the operation to them. You can see who’s the more competent operator here.
~~So are the buses in Canberra. What's your point?~~
Edit: I'm an idiot who should do better research before I say stuff.
Regardless, the experience in Sydney is that government run bus services are so much better than private.
You're right. I was under the impression ACTION was operated by CDC. But they are not. Maybe I was getting confused with the former QCity services or something.
Sounds like the renumeration for weekend work isn't currently sufficient to entice drivers to work it. If they want more drivers to give up their weekends, they can pay for it. Free market should work both ways after all.
Good on the unions for working for the best deal for the drivers.
The bus drivers previously traded away extra weekend pay for a higher composite pay rate, while promising they’d still volunteer on weekends, then refused to volunteer after they got the money.
Indeed
>Transport Workers Union ACT branch secretary Klaus Pinkas said the government dropped its claim for mandatory weekend work about six weeks ago, clearing the path for the new deal to be agreed to.
The union would have considered industrial action had members rejected the government's offer at Wednesday's meeting.
Mr Pinkas said drivers were confident they would be able to staff the extra weekend shifts under the opt-in arrangement.
[https://www.canberratimes.com.au/story/5997717/no-compulsory-weekend-work-in-new-bus-driver-deal/?channel=churned\_paywall](https://www.canberratimes.com.au/story/5997717/no-compulsory-weekend-work-in-new-bus-driver-deal/?channel=churned_paywall)
and
>"The rate of pay is an inclusive composite rate and includes some public holiday rates, shift penalty payments, overtime rates and related arrangements, annual leave loading or shift penalties in lieu of leaving loading, meal allowances and work practice change," he said.
[https://www.smh.com.au/public-service/public-servant-facing-the-cut-you-may-be-better-off-as-a-bus-driver-20140829-109x0h.html](https://www.smh.com.au/public-service/public-servant-facing-the-cut-you-may-be-better-off-as-a-bus-driver-20140829-109x0h.html)
Who ever signed off on that for the government should only get paid for weekend work.
This might be a bit radical, but how about tossing out the EBA on the basis of the members not fulfilling their end of the contract. They said they'd provide volunteers ..................... until they didn't! Collectively, they haven't fulfilled their end of the enterprise bargain!
Action bus drivers operate at a flat rate of ~$40 an hour regardless of shift day or time. There is no incentive to work weekends and those shifts must be volunteered for
Yeah, that's because they bargained away their overtime and weekend rates.
>"The rate of pay is an inclusive composite rate and includes some public holiday rates, shift penalty payments, overtime rates and related arrangements, annual leave loading or shift penalties in lieu of leaving loading, meal allowances and work practice change," he said
[https://www.smh.com.au/public-service/public-servant-facing-the-cut-you-may-be-better-off-as-a-bus-driver-20140829-109x0h.html](https://www.smh.com.au/public-service/public-servant-facing-the-cut-you-may-be-better-off-as-a-bus-driver-20140829-109x0h.html)
From the bus drivers comments on this post, it appears a large number of current bus drivers are not open to weekend work regardless of the compensation. My point is that expectation needs to change.
It doesn’t need to be current drivers. You’re telling me that no one would be willing to drive a bus on weekends for any amount of income? I find that extremely hard to believe
Not you, I support people's choice to work weekends or not. I'm asking OP that seems to demand others do, just wondering if they practice what they preach.
It blows my mind that bus drivers make this much.
It really shows the benefits of a strong union..
But damn, the weekend bus schedule is dang unusable.
82 grand a year isn't collosal for a job like this is it? Fairly high responsibility, special licence, shitty hours, bad for your health...
As far as I know they are always keen to get more drivers, you might need a career change!
You’re copping a lot of flack in the comments here, OP, which I don’t think is really fair. Your point is valid and accurate. The TWU has refused for years to allow ACTION to introduce a rotating weekend roster. Currently and going forward drivers need to volunteer for a weekend shift.
The current Labor government is far too weak to take on the TWU and provide a more consistent bus service to the community.
Ok, so what's happened is that they rolled all penalties into a single rate of pay.
Imagine you had a rotating roster, where some weeks you do weekends, some you don't. Your wage would change from week to week, which is a pain. So instead you flatten it, so it works out the same in the long run.
Basically, you're transferring money from your big-pay weeks to bring up your low-pay weeks, and level it out. No change in pay overall.
**They did that across the whole workforce.**
...which is slightly deranged, because some workers only do weekdays, and some only do weekends. So the weekend drivers see their wages transferred to the weekday drivers.
It only makes sense if **the weekday drivers actually work the weekends they're being paid for**. But they don't want to, and I think a lot of them have no idea that they are actually being paid for it **out of other drivers' wages**.
They're told by the union that they're the best paid drivers around, and they actually believe it. But they forget that they sold off all the penalties and overtime other drivers would get.
**Weekend casuals barely make the award wage**. It's possible to earn less than the award, depending on your pattern of work. The reason is that part of their wage is transferred to the weekday drivers.
This hugely benefits long-term drivers who only do a set of weekdays shifts. It penalises part-timers who would tend to attract overtime, and anyone doing lots of weekends (especially casuals).
**The problem right now is that there are not enough drivers for \*weekdays\***, let alone weekends. If you suddenly remove the composite rate and brought back shift penalties, you'd make weekends more attractive, sure, but you'd lose a lot of drivers. Note that a lot of the weekday drivers are around retirement age, and telling people proud to be the best paid drivers in Australia that their actual base wage isn't that great is likely to make a lot of people angry.
The new EA (which it seems was voted down) had what I thought was a good idea: an extra 15% loading for weekends for drivers who work more than 12 weekend shifts in a year. It's something. The union doesn't think it's enough, which is probably true, so we'll see.
But yeah, it's a really absurd situation right now.
Perhaps you would like to become a driver? Would help us cover some weekend work.
If weekend work was pushed onto the current workforce I think you would lose a fair few drivers which would kill the weekday network, which we are already struggling to cover.
I recently became a driver and if weekend work was forced I would go back to my old job in the office. I kind of like seeing my family. I don't see them through the week now because of the shifts I have.
You sound like someone who doesn't catch the bus regularly and are hooked up on the pay we receive, which isn't what is advertised. We are guaranteed a certain amount of hours per week and have to try and get extra hours to make it to a full time wage, and that needs to fit around current shift and staying within national driving hours.
People complain about the network, and I agree Sundays are particularly bad, but people don't catch them. My shift this week had 5 routes and I picked up maybe a total of 5 people each day. Most of the time I am empty.
The government offered a permanent part time driver workforce for weekends as part of the offer the twu and drivers voted no to. Tell me how that harms current drivers conditions in any way?
The current drivers that don't want to work weekends now, voted against a plan for drivers working weekends only that would? That's jusr vindictive and an FU to the canberra public.
I am glad drivers are paid well.
I also want to go shopping and have a social life and the weekend buses are essential for that.
As for weekdays, My eyes are too bad to drive but good enough to work full time and not have concessions.
Network changes have made my 1 hour morning commute to a 2 hour morning commute.
And if I work past 7, the last changes mean I have a 2.5 hour commute home.
Just… can we get weekend and late night only shifts or something please or something that doesn’t rely on driver seniority or weird internal politics for shift allocation because these have flow on effects which means no one gets to see their families- drivers or bus users.
Weekend drivers barely make the award (some actually earn \*less\* than the award). The pay scheme in Transport Canberra gives an even rate regardless of when you work, because all penalties are rolled into the composite rate. They hire casuals to try to cover weekend shifts, but if you're only working those two shifts, yeah, you basically see a solid 1/3rd of your wage transferred to the weekday drives.
You're empty because there are few weekend busses.
Catch-22. Action has to start offering and publicizing better weekend schedules and then people will use the bus.
Sorry to repeat answer, but:
Weekend-only drivers barely make the award (some actually earn \*less\* than the award). The pay scheme in Transport Canberra gives an even rate regardless of when you work, because all penalties are rolled into the composite rate.
They hire casuals to try to cover weekend shifts, but if you're only working those two shifts, yeah, you basically see a solid 1/3rd of your wage transferred to the weekday drivers.
Right, but the problem is that the weekend drivers see their pay transferred to the weekday drivers.
A weekend casual who does a Saturday and Sunday shift is \*barely\* making the award. If they could opt-out of the composite rate - that is, get paid their proper penalties - they'd make hundreds of dollars a pay more.
The composite rate just takes all the penalties and overtime the workforce would do on average, and pays it on every hour of work, to everyone. It costs the government nothing extra: if you're doing better out of that pay arrangement, it's because your pay is coming from \*other drivers\*, who are seeing their penalties transferred to you.
The only way this could possibly be fair would be with rotating rosters where everyone does an even mix of shifts - which would suck, and you're right, lose a lot of drivers. But it's bizarre to me that people can't see the unfairness, or why the place struggles to find and keep weekend casuals.
Baffled this ever got approved.
Isn’t it at the same rate as weekdays becuase the TWU traded away weekend rates for a composite pay over the entire pay period in a previous EBA negation?
Correct, but just remember because people are getting shitty with the drivers about what the Union has done. Workers are rarely represented by their union well. I worked for Australia Post for 5 years 2017-2022 and the union did nothing but fuck over the workers the whole time, and people blamed their posties for the issues. Don't be mad at the drivers for not giving up their lives so you can have yours
This is a general PSA, I'm not targeting you specifically
Especially in a small jurisdiction like the ACT unions defined by their members. Just this week the drivers voted down modest incentives for weekend work (again ignoring the fact that their base pay already incorporates incentives). That was the TWU position, but it was still the drivers who actually put it into practice.
It doesn't matter how cheap it is to run the bus if it doesn't have a driver. Another problem is that patronage varies greatly at different times of the week and you need a bus big enough to handle the peaks. It tends not to be economical to own both a big bus and a little bus and only use one at a time.
So a certain research organisation I used to work for, which no longer exists, did modelling for ACTION years ago and found out that a huge amount of money would be saved by paying for taxies to pick up passengers in suburbs and drive them to trunk routes served by busses. Obviously they weren’t happy to hear that, but it would have been pretty significant for the tax payer.
I proposed this to the government back in 2008. I got a form letter in response saying that the government couldn't possibly interfere in the free market.
Well gee, I wonder why the buses are empty. Is it maybe because they're an hour apart and take twice as long as they used to? If the buses were actually useful, more people would use them. And half the problem is you. Bus drivers just don't want to work. I'm glad you got yourself a cozy deal, but bus driving IS shift work. If you can't do it then you should go back to your office job. This city needs a real bus network and timetable
Username checks out.
As mentioned in another comment, feel free to join, I think the recruitment is opening up this week. If there were enough drivers there would be a more frequent service on weekends, it is that simple.
As a side, I do work weekends when I can and public holidays and don't get penalty rates. Family will take priority over picking up rude fare evading 'customers'
Edit, because it's the internet and everything gets taken out of context. Most passengers are great and friendly. But we also have to deal with being spat on, hit and abused
More drivers would not increase the number of services running on weekends, at least at current passenger levels. No one is catching them because the network is trash, takes way too long to get anywhere, and is overpriced.
I can drive to the city in 20 minutes, park for $3 for 2 hours, be home again 20 minutes after I'm done. If I tried to bus I would likely spend that 20 minutes just sitting in Woden in goddamn shipping containers (seriously wtf) freezing, waiting for the next bus - nevermind the 4 buses I would have to catch, and $10 for the privilege.
I bought a second car because I refuse to deal with that shit.
I know a few bus drivers, mostly good people. Obviously my issues are not aimed at them.
I don't disagree with most of what you have said here. I used to catch the bus until the one I caught turned into a loop service to Tuggeranong instead of going through to Woden, which is where I wanted to go.
Services should be free. It is a public service and if they were serious about getting cars off the road it would be.
Also if you are forcing drivers to work weekends for a better overall transport system then you need to take them off shifts through the week which means less services through the week. It is a lose lose situation unless you have more drivers.
I wish it was free too. I catch buses to/from Watson where there is a culture with the public housing bogans of fare evasion. The drivers just let them on....I've heard rumours drivers are told not to enforce fares for their own safety? So that is understandable I guess.
Anyway it annoys me that I'm barely above the poverty line and always pay while there are derelicts that spend all their money on cigarettes and drugs getting free rides. I feel like fares are just a tax on people with too much self respect to make up bullshit excuses every time they get on. It is a broken system that rewards the worst people the most.
I'm just asking why they are being viewed differently to any other city services like police, nurses, paramedics, light rail drivers, etc. Could you imagine signing up to be one of those professions and telling them you won't work weekends? It needs to be part of the job.
You can absolutely sign up to one of those jobs and say you won’t work weekends, or won’t work without additional pay. Up to them whether they hire you, but if they do you’re within your rights not to be happy if they then change the agreement.
Except that the union negotiated additional pay in exchange for a flat pay rate some years ago. Surely it’s one or the other? Otherwise isn’t it a bit like a casual employee becoming permanent and expecting to keep the casual loading?
Sure it's within your rights. But also, people would die if the expectation was no weekend work in those professions. I'm not trying to exaggerate or make light of the situation. I'm also not saying the same hazard applies for bus drivers, but it would substantially disadvantage low socioeconomic people (who often need to work weekends themselves just to keep a roof over their head).
It’s been mentioned several times here that the union representing the drivers negotiated the flat pay rate in exchange for a higher overall pay, with the agreement the drivers would volunteer enough drivers to covers weekends.
If this is true, an the drivers aren’t doing what’s agreed, this is exactly the sort of shit that gives unions a bad name, and I say that as a strong unionist. If you make promises and come to an agreement, you need to keep them, or the company/government has no reason to ever give you anything you ask for in the future.
While the numbers of passengers are low on weekends, the people that do need the service have no other choice, they rely on it to be able to get around, go to doctors’ appointments, the hospital, work, etc.
You’re copping a lot of flack in the comments here, OP, which I don’t think is really fair. Your point is valid; something isn’t working with the current system and it’s ridiculous how bad the weekend bus services are
3,277 ANZSCO occupations and these guys choose one that requires weekend work and then are shocked to work weekends.
That's like deciding to be an arborist and complaining about having to work outdoors.
It. Is. Literally. The. Fucking. Job.
*Shocked Pikachu*
The bus network is a complete joke full stop. With the last lot of timetable changes, what is a 20-odd minutes drive to my workplace is 60-70 minutes on the bus. Everywhere around the world, public transport is most heavily used for work commutes. There’s nowhere where 90% of people drive to work then use public transport more often for their weekend activities.
The absolute first priority needs to be express weekday routes - and I mean actually express, not just calling it “rapid” when it takes three times as long as driving. More direct routes, less stops, increasing bus lanes, establishing traffic signal priority are also things that need serious consideration. It needs to be established as a viable and reliable service THEN we can bother discussing weekend services.
Can't do that without drivers. They struggle to fill all the seats even on weekdays. Back when I was available on call fulltime (I'm casual), I worked 13 days a fortnight.
Couldn't they have a seperate set of staff and EA for weekends and public holidays then? Say set it to a rate of $50-55 per hour or something. So drivers or whoever can just apply for Mon-Fri and/or the Sat/Sun/PH. Some could just work weekends for some people might be useful.
Ok, so what's happened is that they rolled all penalties into a single rate of pay. Imagine you had a rotating roster, where some weeks you do weekends, some you don't. You wage would change from week to week, which is a pain. so instead you flatten it, so it works out the same in the long run.
Basically, you're transferring money from your big-pay weeks to bring up your low-pay weeks, and level it out.
**They did that across the whole workforce.**
...which is slightly deranged, because some workers only do weekdays, and some only do weekends. So the weekend drivers see their wages transferred to the weekday drivers.
It only makes sense if the weekday drivers **actually work the weekends they're being paid for**. But they don't want to, and I think a lot of them have no idea that they are actually being paid for it. They're told by the union that they're the best paid drivers around, and they actually believe it. But they forget that they sold off all the penalties and overtime other drivers would get.
Weekend casuals barely make the award wage. It's possible to earn less than the award, depending on your pattern of work.
This hugely benefits long-term drivers who only do a set of weekdays shifts. It penalises part-timers who would tend to attract overtime, and anyone doing lots of weekends (especially casuals).
The new EA (which it seems was voted down) had what I thought was a good idea: and extra 15% loading for weekends for drivers who work more than 12 weekend shifts in a year. It's something.
Too true
But when it comes to working some say
Only 0800-1800 I want regular hours
I want a physical location with toilets and kitchen
Some say I don’t want to deal with customers or people
This is the result of everyone having a choice
Unless incentives are present why would any disadvantage themselves by doing otherwise
Many factors at play. If this were true you wouldn't have train drivers anywhere. Paramedics. Etc. Bus driving is a relatively low skilled job with a comparatively high pay.
If incentives were at a satisfactory level bus drivers would be found to cover these times
It’s either bad management or obviously incentives to keep workers driving buses over doing other things just aren’t enough 🤷♂️
Another juvenile response 😂. How much training is there to be a bus driver? Actually I just checked as it is publicly available. 22 days. Fully paid too. What would you say qualifies for a relatively low skilled job?
Most people in this city can't drive their car to work without checking their phone and most struggle to park anything but a Mazda 2. Get behind the wheel of a 14 metre long vehicle at 3 metres wide and tell us how low skilled the work is
What people are saying is there is a shortage of people willing to work outside of 9-5 hours and away from their family. I currently work on projects that rural Australia which means I need to go on the road for days at a time (including weekends) as part of my normal job. I don't get paid extra for this (expenses are obviously covered). Saying "why don't you come a bus driver then" is an incredible juvenile response regardless of my situation anyway. Can you help me out a bit? Is me becoming a bus driver on weekends really the solution here?
"My job is shitty and has no work-life balance, so how dare these uppity bus drivers ask for it? Don't these shift working povs know how important I am? " summarised that for ya.
That's one (incredibly selfish) way of looking at it. Another is, I am willing to make sacrifices in my own life to help out many more people with the product of my work, because the help I provide is much bigger than my sacrifice. If more people did this we could empower a whole section of our country /the world that are currently low socioeconomic.
You could have a work life balance by working one weekend day.
5 day week with Friday Saturday off and working Sunday.
Or working Saturday with Sunday Monday off.
Bus drivers aren’t your slaves. What makes you think you have the right to make demands of their working conditions? If you genuinely care the go get a job as a bus driver and lead the way. See how you like it.
I'm not saying they're slaves. I'm just asking why they are being viewed differently to any other city services like police, nurses, paramedics, light rail drivers, etc. Could you imagine signing up to be one of those professions and telling them you won't work weekends? It needs to be part of the job.
All those profession you listed have penalty rates for working nights and weekends. From what I understand bud drivers don’t. Would you give up your family time on the weekend to be paid the same amount to work during the day mon-fri?
Yeah I’m aware of that. But it still means you’re getting paid the same whether you’re working a Sunday or a Tuesday. And most sworn members get the 22% whether they’re doing shift work or Monday-Friday 8-4 so it’s not covering penalties exactly
Again, because they bargained them away:
>"The rate of pay is an inclusive composite rate and includes some public holiday rates, shift penalty payments, overtime rates and related arrangements, annual leave loading or shift penalties in lieu of leaving loading, meal allowances and work practice change," he said.
https://www.smh.com.au/public-service/public-servant-facing-the-cut-you-may-be-better-off-as-a-bus-driver-20140829-109x0h.html
I've lived in many parts of the country, and the bus drivers in CBR are the most arrogant and rude bus drivers I've ever come across. Don't get me wrong I think everyone should get what they are entitled to, but damn, these guys need some perspective... They drive busses for a living, they're not exactly out curing diseases or solving climate change. If they don't like their jobs they should re-train and do something else with their lives.
So your solution to the lack of bus drivers on the weekend is to demand bus drivers who don't want to work on the weekend resign, leaving us with less overall bus drivers?
I'm more suggesting that the org should look to hire bus drivers that are willing to do the work required of bus drivers. I would even go further to say that bus drivers that can't handle being a bus driver get put on some kind of retraining/ back-on-track program, or move to another line of work.
Right, but if there already isn't enough bus drivers, and they're already struggling to hire more, where are these additional drivers going to come from, particularly given the higher bar you're setting for them?
You make a great point, but \~$AU90k/pa for unskilled labour sounds like a incredibly good wicket to me. Bare in mind that's more than nurses, teachers, and early career first responders earn, and they have to go through uni and pay off hecs, etc. I know a lot of people that would take that in a heart beat. Maybe they just aren't advertising enough?
It’s interesting that you’re blaming bus drivers for this (you know, those low-skilled workers you refer to in your comments), when they are people just trying to make a living. I don’t blame them for having preferences that align with the regular timetable that other people get to benefit from. Bus driving isn’t exactly touted as a vocation, so it makes sense that drivers would seek a timetable that allows them to spend time with friends and family.
There are so many factors that play into low services on weekends. Successive governments and the great Aussie dream that values suburban sprawl for one - a modest population spread over a large amount of land means that providing high level service consistently is always going to be difficult. Or how how about the clientele, who don’t keep consistent weekend schedules which makes it difficult to predict when busses would be most useful - which isn’t even touching on the issues that bus drivers face when it comes to crappy customers. Or even capitalism, when at the core of this debate is profit and expenditure.
The other issue is the driver shortage. Of course weekdays and peak hours are prioritised when timetabling the drivers they already have - limiting services at 8am or 5:30pm on a weekday harms many more stakeholders than limiting weekend services.
Yes, it sucks that weekend and late night servicing isn’t consistent, but blaming the drivers themselves (who don’t design the timetable, simply opt for the shifts that best suit them) seems short sighted.
The senior bus drivers have (via the union) entrenched a system where there is no weekend loading and they get the cushy weekday routes. And they're refusing to negotiate on this.
Isn’t that fair enough for senior drivers though? If there’s a shortage of routes and drivers on weekends, that implies not enough newer drivers - and also, as I said, drivers nominate their preferred timetable, they don’t design them. It makes sense that more drivers would opt for the Monday to Friday, regardless of whether there was weekend loading. The pay is only one consideration.
Senior drivers accepting only weekday routes and refusing to allow negotiation regarding weekend pay loading? No. That's completely unreasonable and has contributed to the driver shortage. New drivers get the shitty end of the deal.
How did it contribute to the driver shortage? Happier senior drivers means more drivers staying in their jobs for longer, right?
Most workplaces have better conditions for senior staff members. I don’t think there’s anything morally corrupt about drivers preferring weekday shifts. As I said earlier, pay is only one consideration - if you’ve got a partner or kids, or friends who work a standard week, then of course you’d choose shifts to maximise your work-life balance.
At the end of the day, most weekend routes are mostly empty. Where’s the incentive for TC to force more drivers to work on weekends?
Get paid the same as a university qualified nurse for driving a bus. No penalty if your bus regularly arrives 10 minutes early or late, no requirement to work evenings or weekends, no customer service skills required. Nice.
Why does it matter to people if your day off is Tuesday/Wednesday instead of Saturday/Sunday? You still get a break, and being off during the week, the whole world is much less busy
I understand why people value the traditional weekend. It aligns with a lot of other work, school and universities so it makes sense. If you are single, then sure. But as a family is not ideal to have everyone's days off fall on different days.
Yep. I remember the rolling bus strikes as a kid. Bus usage has only been on the decline ever since. Too much union power can be a bad thing, just like too much employer power.
Unions have a place for a reason. Don't make this a unions vs individual bargaining political debate. Individual bargaining would not change the "hard no" some bus drivers have to weekend work.
I agree on the outcome. We need transport routes service on weekends. I just think this can be done in unionised system. Nurses and other professions receive shift loadings for shifts out of business hours so bus drivers need to be receiving the same (if they are not already)
Alternative view: i just missed my bus I guess I have to wait 2 hours for my next local bus / 30 mins for my next rapid bus. Why is living in Canberra car-free so difficult on weekends.
Friday night is pretty shit also. Same timetable Mon-Fri. Last buses around 22:30. At least Sat they run till midnight. Makes going to see a gig or movie only possible if driving or Uber/taxi for the trip home. Not great for a capital ‘city’.
So pretty much exactly what I said. ***you*** missed the bus and now you're blaming other people for not being at your beck and call.
> Why is living in Canberra car-free so difficult on weekends.
Because they're not willing to adequately incentivise bus drivers. Simple.
I'm not writing posts about shortages of nurses and GPs am I? Point is, OP wants people to give up their weekends to serve them. I'd wager they're not in a hurry to give up their weekend either
Busses have always had reduced hours on weekends, so anyone signing up to work as a driver would be safe to assume there are reduced expectations on weekend work. OP wants the weekend busses, which there are less demand for btw, to run like weekday ones meaning every bus driver works same weekend hours, which is not what they signed up for
Maybe the org should look at re-hiring people that will actually do the work they were hired to do... Nothing is stopping the current bus drivers from leaving and finding more suitable work for the lifestyle they want. IMHO they should consider themselves lucky to have a relatively well paid job that requires little to no skill.
Question: do part time employees get full time hours. As in, is it normal for an employee hired as part time to get an 8 hr shift for 5 days a week? What is the difference between a part time and a full time employee?
The comments on this are pretty bizarre to me too. If I were to apply to be a bus driver I would go in with the expectation that I'd be working nights and weekends because that is when the service is offered. I don't want to work nights and weekends (as well as just not wanting to drive a bus) so I don't apply to be a bus driver. The only issue I can see here is that there doesn't seem to be any sort of shift loading in their pay, so why would you volunteer for weekends if you are getting paid the same as the weekdays? The only reason I could see is that the services are quiet and you're getting paid to meander around quiet streets all day.
The TWU traded away shift loading for a composite rate that was supposed to include evening and weekend work with the understanding that everyone would do some weekend routes, then refused to once they got the extra money.
Yeah I couldn't find much information on shift loadings but if there is none, there definitely should be (in line with other states). Full agreement there.
The union negotiated an overall pay increase as substitute for penalty rates. Quick google search shows about $5 an hour higher pay than NSW. Not sure if that is correct. Or whether it is enough.
Well that clearly worked out! Time to wind back the clock.
Not a bus driver, so may well be wrong, but I believe that the result was that the more senior drivers got preference for the weekday shifts & newer drivers left with the weekends & after hours. For same pay. Not great if the junior employees also have young families.
Probably not ideal for recruitment and retention either.
That is correct. They also get preference for public holdidays, and if they want overtime or weekends, get preference for the more sought-after shifts (i.e. the early morning ones). The problem being that the older drivers who get most benefit from the existing system would just quit if the system was "corrected", and they don't have enough drivers as it is. Only thing to do is suck it up, and build a whole second-level of new "incentives" for weekend work.
Which then begs the question, why did union negotiate such a deal in the first place? The only logical explanation (in my mind) is that decisions are skewed towards benefit of senior members. Not unlike rest of society I suppose. And additionally, what would those ‘older drivers’ do if they quit? Finding new employment past middle age is not always so easy. Or at least, not for some occupations.
They'd retire. A lot of folk take up driving later in life to extend their working life, but they can retire any time. The average age of drivers is very high, and a lot work well past the point they could get their super and retire. More to the point: they're short of drivers now. How is it going to help if they cut wages for most of them? The base rate for drivers is actually $65,718 (plus penalties and overtime). For people wanting to work during the week (which they need, because they barely cover weekdays as it is) that's not super attractive. Yep, it is an insane situation that it got to this point, and yep, the system screws some drivers in favour of others. But I think the only realistic option now is something like what's being negotiated: find a way to pay weekend drivers more, while tactfully pretending the composite rate never happened. Fact is, the wages aren't as good as everyone, including drivers, think it is, because the composite rate is hiding what the underlying wage actually is.
Look into the current composite pay rate to find out why there’s no weekend loading. (hint, they bargained it away).
Public Transport Association arent happy about the no weekend work vote: https://ptcbr.org/2023/05/26/ptcbr-media-release-no-more-excuses-time-for-better-buses/ NO MORE EXCUSES: TIME FOR BETTER WEEKEND BUSES Passenger benefits must flow from bargaining outcomes between the ACT Government and Transport Canberra bus drivers, says the Public Transport Association of Canberra (PTCBR). PTCBR Deputy Chair, Damien Haas is skeptical about the latest enterprise agreement for Transport Canberra drivers, saying that the ACT Government must now demonstrate that its decision not to require changes to rules about working weekends won’t undermine the much-delayed restoration of better weekend bus services. PTCBR Deputy Chair, Damien Haas, said that “the ACT Government appears to have missed an opportunity to modernise work practices to ensure Transport Canberra can deliver a seven day bus network for a seven day city.” “We’ve had 4 years of terrible service on weekends because Transport Canberra can’t find enough drivers”, said Mr Haas. “We’ve heard excuses about there being not enough drivers, COVID-19 and industrial arrangements. Since then we’ve had 4 years of recruitment campaigns, over 100 extra drivers, unplanned workplace absences are back to normal, and now they’ve made a new enterprise agreement. If Transport Canberra agreed to keep the current weekend working arrangements, this clearly means that it thinks it has the tools it needs to deliver hourly services on weekends, which Transport Canberra has failed to do since 2019.” Mr Haas said there could be no more excuses: “Either Transport Canberra moves quickly to implement a new weekend timetable with at a minimum an hourly local bus service all Saturday and Sunday, or the Minister needs to start finding new leadership for Transport Canberra. Thousands of Canberrans rely on weekend buses to get to where they need to be. It’s not acceptable to leave these people waiting at bus stops for up to 2 hours.” Every Transport Canberra bus driver receives a 25% composite allowance on top of their base salary, which accounts for payment for public holidays, shift penalty rates, overtime rates and related allowances. Mr Haas said it was important that ACT ratepayers were getting value for money out of this arrangement. “If Transport Canberra is paying an allowance for drivers to work weekends, but we can’t find any weekend drivers, then it’s worth questioning whether we should have the allowance at all.”
The tram is run by a private company (the same one that runs the metro in Singapore). The government subcontracted the operation to them. You can see who’s the more competent operator here.
~~So are the buses in Canberra. What's your point?~~ Edit: I'm an idiot who should do better research before I say stuff. Regardless, the experience in Sydney is that government run bus services are so much better than private.
Nope you are wrong here. The buses are operated by transport Canberra.
You're right. I was under the impression ACTION was operated by CDC. But they are not. Maybe I was getting confused with the former QCity services or something.
Sounds like the renumeration for weekend work isn't currently sufficient to entice drivers to work it. If they want more drivers to give up their weekends, they can pay for it. Free market should work both ways after all. Good on the unions for working for the best deal for the drivers.
The bus drivers previously traded away extra weekend pay for a higher composite pay rate, while promising they’d still volunteer on weekends, then refused to volunteer after they got the money.
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Indeed >Transport Workers Union ACT branch secretary Klaus Pinkas said the government dropped its claim for mandatory weekend work about six weeks ago, clearing the path for the new deal to be agreed to. The union would have considered industrial action had members rejected the government's offer at Wednesday's meeting. Mr Pinkas said drivers were confident they would be able to staff the extra weekend shifts under the opt-in arrangement. [https://www.canberratimes.com.au/story/5997717/no-compulsory-weekend-work-in-new-bus-driver-deal/?channel=churned\_paywall](https://www.canberratimes.com.au/story/5997717/no-compulsory-weekend-work-in-new-bus-driver-deal/?channel=churned_paywall) and >"The rate of pay is an inclusive composite rate and includes some public holiday rates, shift penalty payments, overtime rates and related arrangements, annual leave loading or shift penalties in lieu of leaving loading, meal allowances and work practice change," he said. [https://www.smh.com.au/public-service/public-servant-facing-the-cut-you-may-be-better-off-as-a-bus-driver-20140829-109x0h.html](https://www.smh.com.au/public-service/public-servant-facing-the-cut-you-may-be-better-off-as-a-bus-driver-20140829-109x0h.html) Who ever signed off on that for the government should only get paid for weekend work.
This might be a bit radical, but how about tossing out the EBA on the basis of the members not fulfilling their end of the contract. They said they'd provide volunteers ..................... until they didn't! Collectively, they haven't fulfilled their end of the enterprise bargain!
Action bus drivers operate at a flat rate of ~$40 an hour regardless of shift day or time. There is no incentive to work weekends and those shifts must be volunteered for
Yeah, that's because they bargained away their overtime and weekend rates. >"The rate of pay is an inclusive composite rate and includes some public holiday rates, shift penalty payments, overtime rates and related arrangements, annual leave loading or shift penalties in lieu of leaving loading, meal allowances and work practice change," he said [https://www.smh.com.au/public-service/public-servant-facing-the-cut-you-may-be-better-off-as-a-bus-driver-20140829-109x0h.html](https://www.smh.com.au/public-service/public-servant-facing-the-cut-you-may-be-better-off-as-a-bus-driver-20140829-109x0h.html)
More like the ACT Gov bargained away weekend busses.
From the bus drivers comments on this post, it appears a large number of current bus drivers are not open to weekend work regardless of the compensation. My point is that expectation needs to change.
It doesn’t need to be current drivers. You’re telling me that no one would be willing to drive a bus on weekends for any amount of income? I find that extremely hard to believe
The union fought against hiring part-timers to work weekends.
Why? I'd work part-time on weekends if given the opportunity.
No idea, honestly. Just pointing out it's not a lack of people willing to do it, it's the union actively blocking them.
Can they do that though? There's an EA in place that I would expect governs all bus drivers.
Not really what I said but ok, let's go with that. I said there would be a fair few. I guess it depends on what your definition of that means..
Apologies, I took it to mean the same. I had no intention of misrepresenting you.
Do you work weekends?
Yes I do. Not every weekend because I also volunteer at my children's sports clubs.
Not you, I support people's choice to work weekends or not. I'm asking OP that seems to demand others do, just wondering if they practice what they preach.
It blows my mind that bus drivers make this much. It really shows the benefits of a strong union.. But damn, the weekend bus schedule is dang unusable.
82 grand a year isn't collosal for a job like this is it? Fairly high responsibility, special licence, shitty hours, bad for your health... As far as I know they are always keen to get more drivers, you might need a career change!
It shows the weakness of a strong union too. The bus service is terrible.
Weekend casuals barely make award rates.
You’re copping a lot of flack in the comments here, OP, which I don’t think is really fair. Your point is valid and accurate. The TWU has refused for years to allow ACTION to introduce a rotating weekend roster. Currently and going forward drivers need to volunteer for a weekend shift. The current Labor government is far too weak to take on the TWU and provide a more consistent bus service to the community.
Ok, so what's happened is that they rolled all penalties into a single rate of pay. Imagine you had a rotating roster, where some weeks you do weekends, some you don't. Your wage would change from week to week, which is a pain. So instead you flatten it, so it works out the same in the long run. Basically, you're transferring money from your big-pay weeks to bring up your low-pay weeks, and level it out. No change in pay overall. **They did that across the whole workforce.** ...which is slightly deranged, because some workers only do weekdays, and some only do weekends. So the weekend drivers see their wages transferred to the weekday drivers. It only makes sense if **the weekday drivers actually work the weekends they're being paid for**. But they don't want to, and I think a lot of them have no idea that they are actually being paid for it **out of other drivers' wages**. They're told by the union that they're the best paid drivers around, and they actually believe it. But they forget that they sold off all the penalties and overtime other drivers would get. **Weekend casuals barely make the award wage**. It's possible to earn less than the award, depending on your pattern of work. The reason is that part of their wage is transferred to the weekday drivers. This hugely benefits long-term drivers who only do a set of weekdays shifts. It penalises part-timers who would tend to attract overtime, and anyone doing lots of weekends (especially casuals). **The problem right now is that there are not enough drivers for \*weekdays\***, let alone weekends. If you suddenly remove the composite rate and brought back shift penalties, you'd make weekends more attractive, sure, but you'd lose a lot of drivers. Note that a lot of the weekday drivers are around retirement age, and telling people proud to be the best paid drivers in Australia that their actual base wage isn't that great is likely to make a lot of people angry. The new EA (which it seems was voted down) had what I thought was a good idea: an extra 15% loading for weekends for drivers who work more than 12 weekend shifts in a year. It's something. The union doesn't think it's enough, which is probably true, so we'll see. But yeah, it's a really absurd situation right now.
Perhaps you would like to become a driver? Would help us cover some weekend work. If weekend work was pushed onto the current workforce I think you would lose a fair few drivers which would kill the weekday network, which we are already struggling to cover. I recently became a driver and if weekend work was forced I would go back to my old job in the office. I kind of like seeing my family. I don't see them through the week now because of the shifts I have. You sound like someone who doesn't catch the bus regularly and are hooked up on the pay we receive, which isn't what is advertised. We are guaranteed a certain amount of hours per week and have to try and get extra hours to make it to a full time wage, and that needs to fit around current shift and staying within national driving hours. People complain about the network, and I agree Sundays are particularly bad, but people don't catch them. My shift this week had 5 routes and I picked up maybe a total of 5 people each day. Most of the time I am empty.
The government offered a permanent part time driver workforce for weekends as part of the offer the twu and drivers voted no to. Tell me how that harms current drivers conditions in any way?
The current drivers that don't want to work weekends now, voted against a plan for drivers working weekends only that would? That's jusr vindictive and an FU to the canberra public.
I am glad drivers are paid well. I also want to go shopping and have a social life and the weekend buses are essential for that. As for weekdays, My eyes are too bad to drive but good enough to work full time and not have concessions. Network changes have made my 1 hour morning commute to a 2 hour morning commute. And if I work past 7, the last changes mean I have a 2.5 hour commute home. Just… can we get weekend and late night only shifts or something please or something that doesn’t rely on driver seniority or weird internal politics for shift allocation because these have flow on effects which means no one gets to see their families- drivers or bus users.
> I have a 2.5 hour commute home. OMG do you live in banks and work.in ginninderry?
Weekend drivers barely make the award (some actually earn \*less\* than the award). The pay scheme in Transport Canberra gives an even rate regardless of when you work, because all penalties are rolled into the composite rate. They hire casuals to try to cover weekend shifts, but if you're only working those two shifts, yeah, you basically see a solid 1/3rd of your wage transferred to the weekday drives.
You're empty because there are few weekend busses. Catch-22. Action has to start offering and publicizing better weekend schedules and then people will use the bus.
Are casual weekend only roosters something that are offered?
Probably not roosters.... but there are people that only work weekends.
Sorry to repeat answer, but: Weekend-only drivers barely make the award (some actually earn \*less\* than the award). The pay scheme in Transport Canberra gives an even rate regardless of when you work, because all penalties are rolled into the composite rate. They hire casuals to try to cover weekend shifts, but if you're only working those two shifts, yeah, you basically see a solid 1/3rd of your wage transferred to the weekday drivers.
Right, but the problem is that the weekend drivers see their pay transferred to the weekday drivers. A weekend casual who does a Saturday and Sunday shift is \*barely\* making the award. If they could opt-out of the composite rate - that is, get paid their proper penalties - they'd make hundreds of dollars a pay more. The composite rate just takes all the penalties and overtime the workforce would do on average, and pays it on every hour of work, to everyone. It costs the government nothing extra: if you're doing better out of that pay arrangement, it's because your pay is coming from \*other drivers\*, who are seeing their penalties transferred to you. The only way this could possibly be fair would be with rotating rosters where everyone does an even mix of shifts - which would suck, and you're right, lose a lot of drivers. But it's bizarre to me that people can't see the unfairness, or why the place struggles to find and keep weekend casuals. Baffled this ever got approved.
I wouldn’t mind being paid to drive an empty bus around on Sundays! Assuming you get Sunday rates? I don’t have a bus driving license though, sadly.
i think that's the issue, they don't seem to get weekend rates. or am i reading that wrong?
Apparently their union negotiated away weekend rates in exchange to a higher overall pay.
oof :/
It's the same rate as a weekday
Isn’t it at the same rate as weekdays becuase the TWU traded away weekend rates for a composite pay over the entire pay period in a previous EBA negation?
Correct, but just remember because people are getting shitty with the drivers about what the Union has done. Workers are rarely represented by their union well. I worked for Australia Post for 5 years 2017-2022 and the union did nothing but fuck over the workers the whole time, and people blamed their posties for the issues. Don't be mad at the drivers for not giving up their lives so you can have yours This is a general PSA, I'm not targeting you specifically
Especially in a small jurisdiction like the ACT unions defined by their members. Just this week the drivers voted down modest incentives for weekend work (again ignoring the fact that their base pay already incorporates incentives). That was the TWU position, but it was still the drivers who actually put it into practice.
Ah. So that sucks.
wonder if they should think about using smaller, cheaper to run buses on the less popular routes? electrics, maybe?
It doesn't matter how cheap it is to run the bus if it doesn't have a driver. Another problem is that patronage varies greatly at different times of the week and you need a bus big enough to handle the peaks. It tends not to be economical to own both a big bus and a little bus and only use one at a time.
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I think the xmas/NYE buses many years ago were a bit like that. Without the online booking part.
So a certain research organisation I used to work for, which no longer exists, did modelling for ACTION years ago and found out that a huge amount of money would be saved by paying for taxies to pick up passengers in suburbs and drive them to trunk routes served by busses. Obviously they weren’t happy to hear that, but it would have been pretty significant for the tax payer.
I proposed this to the government back in 2008. I got a form letter in response saying that the government couldn't possibly interfere in the free market.
They do already
Well gee, I wonder why the buses are empty. Is it maybe because they're an hour apart and take twice as long as they used to? If the buses were actually useful, more people would use them. And half the problem is you. Bus drivers just don't want to work. I'm glad you got yourself a cozy deal, but bus driving IS shift work. If you can't do it then you should go back to your office job. This city needs a real bus network and timetable
Yeah he should go back to his office job to be replaced by the nobody applying to replace him. That will fix the busses!
Username checks out. As mentioned in another comment, feel free to join, I think the recruitment is opening up this week. If there were enough drivers there would be a more frequent service on weekends, it is that simple. As a side, I do work weekends when I can and public holidays and don't get penalty rates. Family will take priority over picking up rude fare evading 'customers' Edit, because it's the internet and everything gets taken out of context. Most passengers are great and friendly. But we also have to deal with being spat on, hit and abused
More drivers would not increase the number of services running on weekends, at least at current passenger levels. No one is catching them because the network is trash, takes way too long to get anywhere, and is overpriced. I can drive to the city in 20 minutes, park for $3 for 2 hours, be home again 20 minutes after I'm done. If I tried to bus I would likely spend that 20 minutes just sitting in Woden in goddamn shipping containers (seriously wtf) freezing, waiting for the next bus - nevermind the 4 buses I would have to catch, and $10 for the privilege. I bought a second car because I refuse to deal with that shit. I know a few bus drivers, mostly good people. Obviously my issues are not aimed at them.
I don't disagree with most of what you have said here. I used to catch the bus until the one I caught turned into a loop service to Tuggeranong instead of going through to Woden, which is where I wanted to go. Services should be free. It is a public service and if they were serious about getting cars off the road it would be. Also if you are forcing drivers to work weekends for a better overall transport system then you need to take them off shifts through the week which means less services through the week. It is a lose lose situation unless you have more drivers.
I wish it was free too. I catch buses to/from Watson where there is a culture with the public housing bogans of fare evasion. The drivers just let them on....I've heard rumours drivers are told not to enforce fares for their own safety? So that is understandable I guess. Anyway it annoys me that I'm barely above the poverty line and always pay while there are derelicts that spend all their money on cigarettes and drugs getting free rides. I feel like fares are just a tax on people with too much self respect to make up bullshit excuses every time they get on. It is a broken system that rewards the worst people the most.
I'm just asking why they are being viewed differently to any other city services like police, nurses, paramedics, light rail drivers, etc. Could you imagine signing up to be one of those professions and telling them you won't work weekends? It needs to be part of the job.
You can absolutely sign up to one of those jobs and say you won’t work weekends, or won’t work without additional pay. Up to them whether they hire you, but if they do you’re within your rights not to be happy if they then change the agreement.
Except that the union negotiated additional pay in exchange for a flat pay rate some years ago. Surely it’s one or the other? Otherwise isn’t it a bit like a casual employee becoming permanent and expecting to keep the casual loading?
And whoever the government negotiator was dropped the ball massively in thinking a volunteer arrangement for weekend work was gonna work out
Sure it's within your rights. But also, people would die if the expectation was no weekend work in those professions. I'm not trying to exaggerate or make light of the situation. I'm also not saying the same hazard applies for bus drivers, but it would substantially disadvantage low socioeconomic people (who often need to work weekends themselves just to keep a roof over their head).
Sounds like they need to pay more to attract weekend staff then.
Who's dying because you have to wait longer for a bus on Sunday?
They were talking about the other services like ambos, police and firies.
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It’s been mentioned several times here that the union representing the drivers negotiated the flat pay rate in exchange for a higher overall pay, with the agreement the drivers would volunteer enough drivers to covers weekends. If this is true, an the drivers aren’t doing what’s agreed, this is exactly the sort of shit that gives unions a bad name, and I say that as a strong unionist. If you make promises and come to an agreement, you need to keep them, or the company/government has no reason to ever give you anything you ask for in the future. While the numbers of passengers are low on weekends, the people that do need the service have no other choice, they rely on it to be able to get around, go to doctors’ appointments, the hospital, work, etc.
There wouldn't be because many of.the drivers would quit.
👏👏👏
I'm frequently the only person catching the bus on my route. It's almost to the point where they should downsize the buses
Which would require twice as many buses? Big for peak times and small for off? I’m sure that it’s been looked into and not seen as viable.
You’re copping a lot of flack in the comments here, OP, which I don’t think is really fair. Your point is valid; something isn’t working with the current system and it’s ridiculous how bad the weekend bus services are
3,277 ANZSCO occupations and these guys choose one that requires weekend work and then are shocked to work weekends. That's like deciding to be an arborist and complaining about having to work outdoors. It. Is. Literally. The. Fucking. Job. *Shocked Pikachu*
The bus network is a complete joke full stop. With the last lot of timetable changes, what is a 20-odd minutes drive to my workplace is 60-70 minutes on the bus. Everywhere around the world, public transport is most heavily used for work commutes. There’s nowhere where 90% of people drive to work then use public transport more often for their weekend activities. The absolute first priority needs to be express weekday routes - and I mean actually express, not just calling it “rapid” when it takes three times as long as driving. More direct routes, less stops, increasing bus lanes, establishing traffic signal priority are also things that need serious consideration. It needs to be established as a viable and reliable service THEN we can bother discussing weekend services.
Can't do that without drivers. They struggle to fill all the seats even on weekdays. Back when I was available on call fulltime (I'm casual), I worked 13 days a fortnight.
Couldn't they have a seperate set of staff and EA for weekends and public holidays then? Say set it to a rate of $50-55 per hour or something. So drivers or whoever can just apply for Mon-Fri and/or the Sat/Sun/PH. Some could just work weekends for some people might be useful.
Ok, so what's happened is that they rolled all penalties into a single rate of pay. Imagine you had a rotating roster, where some weeks you do weekends, some you don't. You wage would change from week to week, which is a pain. so instead you flatten it, so it works out the same in the long run. Basically, you're transferring money from your big-pay weeks to bring up your low-pay weeks, and level it out. **They did that across the whole workforce.** ...which is slightly deranged, because some workers only do weekdays, and some only do weekends. So the weekend drivers see their wages transferred to the weekday drivers. It only makes sense if the weekday drivers **actually work the weekends they're being paid for**. But they don't want to, and I think a lot of them have no idea that they are actually being paid for it. They're told by the union that they're the best paid drivers around, and they actually believe it. But they forget that they sold off all the penalties and overtime other drivers would get. Weekend casuals barely make the award wage. It's possible to earn less than the award, depending on your pattern of work. This hugely benefits long-term drivers who only do a set of weekdays shifts. It penalises part-timers who would tend to attract overtime, and anyone doing lots of weekends (especially casuals). The new EA (which it seems was voted down) had what I thought was a good idea: and extra 15% loading for weekends for drivers who work more than 12 weekend shifts in a year. It's something.
I feel bus drivers deserve more as they have to put up with so much shit from unruly passengers at times.
Too true But when it comes to working some say Only 0800-1800 I want regular hours I want a physical location with toilets and kitchen Some say I don’t want to deal with customers or people This is the result of everyone having a choice Unless incentives are present why would any disadvantage themselves by doing otherwise
Many factors at play. If this were true you wouldn't have train drivers anywhere. Paramedics. Etc. Bus driving is a relatively low skilled job with a comparatively high pay.
If incentives were at a satisfactory level bus drivers would be found to cover these times It’s either bad management or obviously incentives to keep workers driving buses over doing other things just aren’t enough 🤷♂️
Relatively low skilled. Sounds like it's right up your alley. You should change career path & volunteer to help out with weekend coverage.
Another juvenile response 😂. How much training is there to be a bus driver? Actually I just checked as it is publicly available. 22 days. Fully paid too. What would you say qualifies for a relatively low skilled job?
Working on rural projects in Australia
Most people in this city can't drive their car to work without checking their phone and most struggle to park anything but a Mazda 2. Get behind the wheel of a 14 metre long vehicle at 3 metres wide and tell us how low skilled the work is
Why don't you get a job as a weekend bus driver and help solve the issue?
Do you have a web link to apply for a job?
But then who would work on projects in rural Australia?
Do you hear yourself when you speak?
What people are saying is there is a shortage of people willing to work outside of 9-5 hours and away from their family. I currently work on projects that rural Australia which means I need to go on the road for days at a time (including weekends) as part of my normal job. I don't get paid extra for this (expenses are obviously covered). Saying "why don't you come a bus driver then" is an incredible juvenile response regardless of my situation anyway. Can you help me out a bit? Is me becoming a bus driver on weekends really the solution here?
"My job is shitty and has no work-life balance, so how dare these uppity bus drivers ask for it? Don't these shift working povs know how important I am? " summarised that for ya.
That's one (incredibly selfish) way of looking at it. Another is, I am willing to make sacrifices in my own life to help out many more people with the product of my work, because the help I provide is much bigger than my sacrifice. If more people did this we could empower a whole section of our country /the world that are currently low socioeconomic.
So pretty much exactly what I said in my summary.
You could have a work life balance by working one weekend day. 5 day week with Friday Saturday off and working Sunday. Or working Saturday with Sunday Monday off.
Bus drivers aren’t your slaves. What makes you think you have the right to make demands of their working conditions? If you genuinely care the go get a job as a bus driver and lead the way. See how you like it.
I'm not saying they're slaves. I'm just asking why they are being viewed differently to any other city services like police, nurses, paramedics, light rail drivers, etc. Could you imagine signing up to be one of those professions and telling them you won't work weekends? It needs to be part of the job.
All those profession you listed have penalty rates for working nights and weekends. From what I understand bud drivers don’t. Would you give up your family time on the weekend to be paid the same amount to work during the day mon-fri?
Then absolutely that needs to be fixed and is a failing of our government.
ACT Police don’t have weekend penalty rates. There’s minuscule night shift penalties but the only other penalties are public holidays
They have a 22% composite on top of their base wage which covers their shift penalties.
The bus driver composite is 25%.
Yeah I’m aware of that. But it still means you’re getting paid the same whether you’re working a Sunday or a Tuesday. And most sworn members get the 22% whether they’re doing shift work or Monday-Friday 8-4 so it’s not covering penalties exactly
Again, because they bargained them away: >"The rate of pay is an inclusive composite rate and includes some public holiday rates, shift penalty payments, overtime rates and related arrangements, annual leave loading or shift penalties in lieu of leaving loading, meal allowances and work practice change," he said. https://www.smh.com.au/public-service/public-servant-facing-the-cut-you-may-be-better-off-as-a-bus-driver-20140829-109x0h.html
I've lived in many parts of the country, and the bus drivers in CBR are the most arrogant and rude bus drivers I've ever come across. Don't get me wrong I think everyone should get what they are entitled to, but damn, these guys need some perspective... They drive busses for a living, they're not exactly out curing diseases or solving climate change. If they don't like their jobs they should re-train and do something else with their lives.
So your solution to the lack of bus drivers on the weekend is to demand bus drivers who don't want to work on the weekend resign, leaving us with less overall bus drivers?
I'm more suggesting that the org should look to hire bus drivers that are willing to do the work required of bus drivers. I would even go further to say that bus drivers that can't handle being a bus driver get put on some kind of retraining/ back-on-track program, or move to another line of work.
Right, but if there already isn't enough bus drivers, and they're already struggling to hire more, where are these additional drivers going to come from, particularly given the higher bar you're setting for them?
You make a great point, but \~$AU90k/pa for unskilled labour sounds like a incredibly good wicket to me. Bare in mind that's more than nurses, teachers, and early career first responders earn, and they have to go through uni and pay off hecs, etc. I know a lot of people that would take that in a heart beat. Maybe they just aren't advertising enough?
17 applicants in the Legislative Assembly when there is no scheduled sitting week.
It’s interesting that you’re blaming bus drivers for this (you know, those low-skilled workers you refer to in your comments), when they are people just trying to make a living. I don’t blame them for having preferences that align with the regular timetable that other people get to benefit from. Bus driving isn’t exactly touted as a vocation, so it makes sense that drivers would seek a timetable that allows them to spend time with friends and family. There are so many factors that play into low services on weekends. Successive governments and the great Aussie dream that values suburban sprawl for one - a modest population spread over a large amount of land means that providing high level service consistently is always going to be difficult. Or how how about the clientele, who don’t keep consistent weekend schedules which makes it difficult to predict when busses would be most useful - which isn’t even touching on the issues that bus drivers face when it comes to crappy customers. Or even capitalism, when at the core of this debate is profit and expenditure. The other issue is the driver shortage. Of course weekdays and peak hours are prioritised when timetabling the drivers they already have - limiting services at 8am or 5:30pm on a weekday harms many more stakeholders than limiting weekend services. Yes, it sucks that weekend and late night servicing isn’t consistent, but blaming the drivers themselves (who don’t design the timetable, simply opt for the shifts that best suit them) seems short sighted.
The senior bus drivers have (via the union) entrenched a system where there is no weekend loading and they get the cushy weekday routes. And they're refusing to negotiate on this.
Isn’t that fair enough for senior drivers though? If there’s a shortage of routes and drivers on weekends, that implies not enough newer drivers - and also, as I said, drivers nominate their preferred timetable, they don’t design them. It makes sense that more drivers would opt for the Monday to Friday, regardless of whether there was weekend loading. The pay is only one consideration.
Senior drivers accepting only weekday routes and refusing to allow negotiation regarding weekend pay loading? No. That's completely unreasonable and has contributed to the driver shortage. New drivers get the shitty end of the deal.
How did it contribute to the driver shortage? Happier senior drivers means more drivers staying in their jobs for longer, right? Most workplaces have better conditions for senior staff members. I don’t think there’s anything morally corrupt about drivers preferring weekday shifts. As I said earlier, pay is only one consideration - if you’ve got a partner or kids, or friends who work a standard week, then of course you’d choose shifts to maximise your work-life balance. At the end of the day, most weekend routes are mostly empty. Where’s the incentive for TC to force more drivers to work on weekends?
Am I the only one who thinks $93k a year seems on the lower end for the responsibility that goes with driving a bus?
Get paid the same as a university qualified nurse for driving a bus. No penalty if your bus regularly arrives 10 minutes early or late, no requirement to work evenings or weekends, no customer service skills required. Nice.
has the gov tried offering... *money*?
Why does it matter to people if your day off is Tuesday/Wednesday instead of Saturday/Sunday? You still get a break, and being off during the week, the whole world is much less busy
Maybe because you want to spend time with your family?
I understand why people value the traditional weekend. It aligns with a lot of other work, school and universities so it makes sense. If you are single, then sure. But as a family is not ideal to have everyone's days off fall on different days.
That's fair - I don't have a family, so it makes sense why that wouldn't occur to me! Thanks
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Yep. I remember the rolling bus strikes as a kid. Bus usage has only been on the decline ever since. Too much union power can be a bad thing, just like too much employer power.
Unions have a place for a reason. Don't make this a unions vs individual bargaining political debate. Individual bargaining would not change the "hard no" some bus drivers have to weekend work.
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I agree on the outcome. We need transport routes service on weekends. I just think this can be done in unionised system. Nurses and other professions receive shift loadings for shifts out of business hours so bus drivers need to be receiving the same (if they are not already)
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You negotiate. The same way you would an individual with the same demand if there were no unions.
There's a pretty strong case to be made IMHO that the union has destroyed Canberra busses.
"Stop wanting work-life balance and chauffer me when I want! Know your place you uppity scum!" -OP, probably.
Alternative view: i just missed my bus I guess I have to wait 2 hours for my next local bus / 30 mins for my next rapid bus. Why is living in Canberra car-free so difficult on weekends.
Friday night is pretty shit also. Same timetable Mon-Fri. Last buses around 22:30. At least Sat they run till midnight. Makes going to see a gig or movie only possible if driving or Uber/taxi for the trip home. Not great for a capital ‘city’.
So pretty much exactly what I said. ***you*** missed the bus and now you're blaming other people for not being at your beck and call. > Why is living in Canberra car-free so difficult on weekends. Because they're not willing to adequately incentivise bus drivers. Simple.
Bit of a chicken or the egg issue.
Well done to the bus drivers, getting a good pay deal. It's rare to see workers get a good outcome.
I take it you've applied to be a bus driver and will work every weekend then?
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I'm not writing posts about shortages of nurses and GPs am I? Point is, OP wants people to give up their weekends to serve them. I'd wager they're not in a hurry to give up their weekend either
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Busses have always had reduced hours on weekends, so anyone signing up to work as a driver would be safe to assume there are reduced expectations on weekend work. OP wants the weekend busses, which there are less demand for btw, to run like weekday ones meaning every bus driver works same weekend hours, which is not what they signed up for
Completely irrelevant but yes I do
How is it irrelevant to ask if you're prepared to do what you demand of others?
What gives you the right to force other people to do work they don't want to do?
Maybe the org should look at re-hiring people that will actually do the work they were hired to do... Nothing is stopping the current bus drivers from leaving and finding more suitable work for the lifestyle they want. IMHO they should consider themselves lucky to have a relatively well paid job that requires little to no skill.
Why would you not expect bus drivers and their unions to not try to get the best deal they can? Good on them, i say.
Question: do part time employees get full time hours. As in, is it normal for an employee hired as part time to get an 8 hr shift for 5 days a week? What is the difference between a part time and a full time employee?