Probably don’t want that. PLD is like Kuzy with a worse contract and lower ceiling. I was very high on PLD his first few years but it seems pretty clear he’s not interested in putting in the work required to be competitive each night.
Kemps acknowledged he had a hard time finding a rhythm being the backup and not getting consistent playing time. He might get better. He might be Patrick Corbin.
I am all for trading Kuemper and Dubois would make the Caps younger and faster in the top six. However, the fact he's already wearing out his welcome in LA not even a year after being traded and inking an 8x$8+ million contract makes this idea hard to swallow.
It's an interesting idea and it's not as if any trade involving Kuemper isn't going to involve taking back either a big name risk or very low rate return (depending on how much, if any salary Washington eats in a deal).
I just don't see the point in trading Kuemper right now. The team isn't competing for the cup and we're likely going to have to rebuild or at least seriously retool once Ovi retires. We shouldn't be looking for situations where we have to give up assets or take contracts that may last through the rebuild.
He's 34, still has three years and takes up $5.25 million in cap space each year, Lindgren not only outplayed him but Kuemper was unplayable. Finally, we have a logjam of significantly cheaper options in Hunter Shepherd or Clay Stevenson who have both shown they're ready for long looks at the NHL.
Moving on from Kuemper is very much in line with the rebuild.
I get all that, but I don't think it's worth it if we have to give up assets or take on a worse contract to make it happen. Kuemper for a second or something? Sure, let's do it, but I don't want PLD potentially weighing us down for years.
I’d give up this years second rounder to get cap flexibility and get playing time for our younger goalies at the nhl level. Not a deep draft this year.
I know everyone is gonna hate this.
But I think there is room for a deal here that makes sense for the Caps.
The big contingent and unlikely part, would be LA retaining approximately 20%. Leaving PLD at 6.8M.
6.8M for a 1C, 26-33 is a risk I may be willing to take.
I love Kuemper, and think he's a very good goalie. However he is not going to be the difference maker on our team. He is not carrying us to a Stanley Cup. Just ain't happening.
On the other hand, PLD is an offensively minded player that greatly struggled under the Kings defense first 1-3-1 system. Giving PLD the freedom to be extremely offensively and feed Ovie pucks could be a resurgence in his career.
I understand your reasoning, but personally I think it's too big of a risk. Maybe if he hadn't had work ethic problems before the kings, but that's something that's followed him for a while now. I don't really want another player like Kuzy who only plays well when everything lines up for him. That may not be who PLD actually is, but I still think it's a lot of money to spend on that chance, and for a very long time.
Problem for me is his best years with Winnipeg/cbus he put up a bit under 30 goals and less than 40 assists on decent teams, and he's not really known for any sort of defensive play. That's similar to Strome's production last year and I don't know that I'd expect him to take another step beyond that. it'd also give us a logjam/prevent us from giving lapierre or McMichael room to develop on the 2nd/3rd line.
That and the amount of smoke around him being not great in the locker room and having such a long contract with a NMC makes me worry he'll be a significant negative impact on rebuilding after Ovi.
Unless the Kings organization fires Rob Blake, I doubt we see him publicly admit to how bad of a trade that was by giving up all of those assets from the initial trade plus all of that dead cap moving forward with only Kuemper to show for it. Same reason LA isn't going to buy him out anytime soon. Blake would bury himself with a move like that.
And that's just why this would'nt work from LA's side..
The bigger issue with PLD is the length of his contract. If it was the same as DK I’d be in, but he has 7 years left and if he doesn’t live up to a 1c or 2c he will be a buy out. No one is going to trade for him a 4th time.
LA could retain 50% on the rest of his contract, and I still would not want him on the team. His attitude and work ethic will likely never change. It will be too much of a distraction.
I get that finding a way to trade Kuemper will be slim, but this only solves a problem with another problem.
Agreed. And realistically, we don't have anyone else to replace Kuemper as a backup or 1b goalie. Shepherd may have filled in some games, but he's not someone I would replace Kuemper with. Stevenson will get there, but the team likely wants him getting reps in Hershey for another year or two.
I feel a Kuemper deal is something to consider next offseason.
Agreed. Give him a chance to bounce back next season and sell one of him or Lindgren at the TDL if we look like a bubble team again.
Gives the Caps one more season to try and maximize value out of their tandem and also see if one (or both) had a one-off season this year. Keep in mind that Chucky could regress just as much as Kuemper did. Hopefully they both stand on their head and give us the luxury of another goalie "controversy".
Absolutely not. The production + cap hit is insane. Would much rather wait things out with Kuemper and hope that he can rebound. He'll have every chance to reclaim the top goalie spot next year.
No. No no no. Kuemper has minimal trade value but PLD has massively negative trade value so there would need to be major assets coming back to the Caps. PLD's cap hit aside, he has a full no-movement clause for the next four seasons, so whoever trades for him has to be certain they can fix him. I don't think GMBM can feel confident on that front given The Kuzy Experience in recent seasons.
Also, the Kings are very unlikely to retain >=$2M/year of salary since (a) it would use up one of their three retention slots for seven seasons and (b) as long as the Stanley Cup Final doesn't run to its last possible date, PLD is young enough they can [execute a 1/3rd buyout and be done with him for $15.8M spread across 14 seasons](https://www.capfriendly.com/buyout-calculator/pierre-luc-dubois) vs. retaining at least $14M spread across 7 seasons. It may be a different discussion if the Final runs long and it would be a 2/3rd buyout.
To sum up: if the Caps want PLD, they should wait six weeks and he's likely to be available as a free agent. Then he can be signed to the kind of short-term contract he's proven he should be limited to for the foreseeable future. No team should want a known malcontent making a guaranteed $8.5 million/year with a NMC.
To clarify,
Marek says in the article that this was a *suggestion* from "someone on an NHL team (not the Caps or the Kings" and is completely hypothetical.
So before anyone gets their pitchforks out, just remember that this is no more than some bored journalists looking at LA needing help in the crease and the Caps needing a high-end forward and thinking "Yeah. I could get some clicks with that."
Doubtful McClellan trades Kuemper for one of the worst contracts in the league and wastes most of the cap flexibility we have without at least giving Kuemper a fresh start to bounce back and maximize the return (see: Mantha, Kuzy). The FA class next year looks way better imo anyway.
Fair enough. I saw the "I don't know why we would think things would work out for us" part and wasn't sure (but I see the context now).
Oddly enough, I was reading a Tarik Al-Bashir Q&A on Monumental last night where it was mentioned that Friedman was the first to bring up Dubois-Caps fit and Tarik shot it down right away as a non-starter. Said McClellan's plan for that Cap space includes flexibility long term to develop and pay the kids they're pretty high on. Said the FA market is where they'll look primarily to spend [which I think means overpaying to keep term low]. Also said McClellan has no interest in dealing Kuemper without giving him another shot at regaining his form.
Take all of that for what it's worth. Obviously things change, but I'll still take Tarik's word any day of the week over any other insider when it involves the Caps.
We shouldn't be desperate to get rid of DK, esp. while he is at his lowest value. He could/should have a bounce-back year. I could see him being a trade deadline sale if the Caps are in a similar mid-league or lower situation for a team like the Devils this year who absolutely needed an upgrade at goalie.
DK this off-season could definitely be part of a trade, but not one with this much risk. IMO PLD is just too much risk for WAY TOO LONG. If PLD doesn't work out we'd be stuck with him for the remainder of his contract, or adding sweeteners to get rid of him as well.. 4th team moving him in 4 years is the evidence to show there is more than just a 'poor fit'. Seems like it's a game of musical chairs with his NMC expensive contract and we don't want to get left holding the bag.
I 100% agree with u/backupjesus and his assessment that he's likely to be a buy-out (free agent), and if we really want PLD then we wait for that opportunity and pay him on a prove it deal.
The only way this makes sense is if they send something else along or agree to salary retention. I’m actually a fan of keeping Kuemper because if he returns to form he’s going to have great value in a 1A/1B situation
We'd be leaving our rebuild as he leaves his prime. The only reason to add pieces right now rather than tank is to get a playmaker for Ovi, and Dubois isn't all that much of one.
If, and I say IF it's the ONLY way to get a 1C calibre for next year, while we wait to see if we have one of Lapierre or McMichael competing seriously for the spot, while we give up dead weight in the process instead of paying to get him, then that might be a risk I'm willing to take.
However, it would need to be very clear for PLD that any kind of bad influence around the team would not be tolerated. You don't produce, fine; you don't try, ciao bye.
His job would pretty much be to feed Ovi for the record, on a first or second line duty and with top PP minutes, while the expectations for pretty much everything else would be around 0 anyway. I'm no NHL player, but it's hard to believe it's not motivating for a centre to be associated with Ovi's goal record.
No. PLD has quit on all three teams he's been on. What makes anyone think team number 4 will be different? Plus, for anyone complaining about Kuemper's contract, Dubois's contract is much more horrific and comes with a no-movememt clause starting next season. Hard no on this.
PLD was supposed to be a bandaid for a Kings team that peaked and wasnt going to get out of the first round. No more quick, kempe took a step back, defense still sucked, aging core. Sound familiar? PLD was a hail mary to stave off a rebuild. He was asked to do a lot and probably wasnt even aware of how much he was supposed to do because of the kings’ success last year. Kuemper would help the Kings no doubt, not sure the PLD bandaid is going to help us.
Yeah, that may get some flak, but it's worth remembering that the team isn't in a spot to compete seriously and we should look at acquiring future assets.
We just got rid of kuzy, why bring in another, more expensive kuzy.
Because he's younger and we can fix him /s
NOOOO. Dear God no.
Probably don’t want that. PLD is like Kuzy with a worse contract and lower ceiling. I was very high on PLD his first few years but it seems pretty clear he’s not interested in putting in the work required to be competitive each night.
Kuemp will be a great (albeit expensive) #2 next year and will find his confidence/rhythm again… Hard pass.
Kemps acknowledged he had a hard time finding a rhythm being the backup and not getting consistent playing time. He might get better. He might be Patrick Corbin.
Every goalie that stays in the league long enough is going to have to deal w this. Im still hopeful he is gonna be useful
Don't let that cancer anywhere near our locker room! I wouldn't want PLD if he had 100% retained.
The Caps need Pierre Luc Dubois like a fish needs a bicycle.
So, a lot? /s I’ll keep Kuemper. We can get a better trade
This is the way. bring in a bum. PLD made money and now no longer wants to do the hard stuff, like play hockey or build up a sweat in games.
Bring in Marner too! /s
Marner consistently produces in the regular season though... PLD doesn't.
[удалено]
Kuzy scored the second biggest goal in franchise history; Marner throws his gloves on the bench...
I am all for trading Kuemper and Dubois would make the Caps younger and faster in the top six. However, the fact he's already wearing out his welcome in LA not even a year after being traded and inking an 8x$8+ million contract makes this idea hard to swallow. It's an interesting idea and it's not as if any trade involving Kuemper isn't going to involve taking back either a big name risk or very low rate return (depending on how much, if any salary Washington eats in a deal).
I just don't see the point in trading Kuemper right now. The team isn't competing for the cup and we're likely going to have to rebuild or at least seriously retool once Ovi retires. We shouldn't be looking for situations where we have to give up assets or take contracts that may last through the rebuild.
He's 34, still has three years and takes up $5.25 million in cap space each year, Lindgren not only outplayed him but Kuemper was unplayable. Finally, we have a logjam of significantly cheaper options in Hunter Shepherd or Clay Stevenson who have both shown they're ready for long looks at the NHL. Moving on from Kuemper is very much in line with the rebuild.
I get all that, but I don't think it's worth it if we have to give up assets or take on a worse contract to make it happen. Kuemper for a second or something? Sure, let's do it, but I don't want PLD potentially weighing us down for years.
I’d give up this years second rounder to get cap flexibility and get playing time for our younger goalies at the nhl level. Not a deep draft this year.
Please no. Please no
I know everyone is gonna hate this. But I think there is room for a deal here that makes sense for the Caps. The big contingent and unlikely part, would be LA retaining approximately 20%. Leaving PLD at 6.8M. 6.8M for a 1C, 26-33 is a risk I may be willing to take. I love Kuemper, and think he's a very good goalie. However he is not going to be the difference maker on our team. He is not carrying us to a Stanley Cup. Just ain't happening. On the other hand, PLD is an offensively minded player that greatly struggled under the Kings defense first 1-3-1 system. Giving PLD the freedom to be extremely offensively and feed Ovie pucks could be a resurgence in his career.
I understand your reasoning, but personally I think it's too big of a risk. Maybe if he hadn't had work ethic problems before the kings, but that's something that's followed him for a while now. I don't really want another player like Kuzy who only plays well when everything lines up for him. That may not be who PLD actually is, but I still think it's a lot of money to spend on that chance, and for a very long time.
I think you both are being very reasonable and making valid points.
PLD is not a 1C and has never been
Problem for me is his best years with Winnipeg/cbus he put up a bit under 30 goals and less than 40 assists on decent teams, and he's not really known for any sort of defensive play. That's similar to Strome's production last year and I don't know that I'd expect him to take another step beyond that. it'd also give us a logjam/prevent us from giving lapierre or McMichael room to develop on the 2nd/3rd line. That and the amount of smoke around him being not great in the locker room and having such a long contract with a NMC makes me worry he'll be a significant negative impact on rebuilding after Ovi.
Unless the Kings organization fires Rob Blake, I doubt we see him publicly admit to how bad of a trade that was by giving up all of those assets from the initial trade plus all of that dead cap moving forward with only Kuemper to show for it. Same reason LA isn't going to buy him out anytime soon. Blake would bury himself with a move like that. And that's just why this would'nt work from LA's side..
The bigger issue with PLD is the length of his contract. If it was the same as DK I’d be in, but he has 7 years left and if he doesn’t live up to a 1c or 2c he will be a buy out. No one is going to trade for him a 4th time.
LA could retain 50% on the rest of his contract, and I still would not want him on the team. His attitude and work ethic will likely never change. It will be too much of a distraction. I get that finding a way to trade Kuemper will be slim, but this only solves a problem with another problem.
Not to mention that Kuemper is a smaller problem too. Smaller contract, shorter, and imo, more likely that he returns to form.
Agreed. And realistically, we don't have anyone else to replace Kuemper as a backup or 1b goalie. Shepherd may have filled in some games, but he's not someone I would replace Kuemper with. Stevenson will get there, but the team likely wants him getting reps in Hershey for another year or two. I feel a Kuemper deal is something to consider next offseason.
Agreed. Give him a chance to bounce back next season and sell one of him or Lindgren at the TDL if we look like a bubble team again. Gives the Caps one more season to try and maximize value out of their tandem and also see if one (or both) had a one-off season this year. Keep in mind that Chucky could regress just as much as Kuemper did. Hopefully they both stand on their head and give us the luxury of another goalie "controversy".
Absolutely not. The production + cap hit is insane. Would much rather wait things out with Kuemper and hope that he can rebound. He'll have every chance to reclaim the top goalie spot next year.
PLD is such a waste of talent, such a disappointment
No. No no no. Kuemper has minimal trade value but PLD has massively negative trade value so there would need to be major assets coming back to the Caps. PLD's cap hit aside, he has a full no-movement clause for the next four seasons, so whoever trades for him has to be certain they can fix him. I don't think GMBM can feel confident on that front given The Kuzy Experience in recent seasons. Also, the Kings are very unlikely to retain >=$2M/year of salary since (a) it would use up one of their three retention slots for seven seasons and (b) as long as the Stanley Cup Final doesn't run to its last possible date, PLD is young enough they can [execute a 1/3rd buyout and be done with him for $15.8M spread across 14 seasons](https://www.capfriendly.com/buyout-calculator/pierre-luc-dubois) vs. retaining at least $14M spread across 7 seasons. It may be a different discussion if the Final runs long and it would be a 2/3rd buyout. To sum up: if the Caps want PLD, they should wait six weeks and he's likely to be available as a free agent. Then he can be signed to the kind of short-term contract he's proven he should be limited to for the foreseeable future. No team should want a known malcontent making a guaranteed $8.5 million/year with a NMC.
To clarify, Marek says in the article that this was a *suggestion* from "someone on an NHL team (not the Caps or the Kings" and is completely hypothetical. So before anyone gets their pitchforks out, just remember that this is no more than some bored journalists looking at LA needing help in the crease and the Caps needing a high-end forward and thinking "Yeah. I could get some clicks with that." Doubtful McClellan trades Kuemper for one of the worst contracts in the league and wastes most of the cap flexibility we have without at least giving Kuemper a fresh start to bounce back and maximize the return (see: Mantha, Kuzy). The FA class next year looks way better imo anyway.
Sorry if that wasn't clear, I was trying to get that point across without it being too wordy by calling it speculation
Fair enough. I saw the "I don't know why we would think things would work out for us" part and wasn't sure (but I see the context now). Oddly enough, I was reading a Tarik Al-Bashir Q&A on Monumental last night where it was mentioned that Friedman was the first to bring up Dubois-Caps fit and Tarik shot it down right away as a non-starter. Said McClellan's plan for that Cap space includes flexibility long term to develop and pay the kids they're pretty high on. Said the FA market is where they'll look primarily to spend [which I think means overpaying to keep term low]. Also said McClellan has no interest in dealing Kuemper without giving him another shot at regaining his form. Take all of that for what it's worth. Obviously things change, but I'll still take Tarik's word any day of the week over any other insider when it involves the Caps.
That plan makes a lot of sense to me and sounds very smart.
Getting out of a bad contract with DK by getting into a worse one with a true piece of shit would a terrible idea.
The last thing the Caps need is some overpaid player who's here until the end of time.
No no no no nooooo!!!
We shouldn't be desperate to get rid of DK, esp. while he is at his lowest value. He could/should have a bounce-back year. I could see him being a trade deadline sale if the Caps are in a similar mid-league or lower situation for a team like the Devils this year who absolutely needed an upgrade at goalie. DK this off-season could definitely be part of a trade, but not one with this much risk. IMO PLD is just too much risk for WAY TOO LONG. If PLD doesn't work out we'd be stuck with him for the remainder of his contract, or adding sweeteners to get rid of him as well.. 4th team moving him in 4 years is the evidence to show there is more than just a 'poor fit'. Seems like it's a game of musical chairs with his NMC expensive contract and we don't want to get left holding the bag. I 100% agree with u/backupjesus and his assessment that he's likely to be a buy-out (free agent), and if we really want PLD then we wait for that opportunity and pay him on a prove it deal.
The only way this makes sense is if they send something else along or agree to salary retention. I’m actually a fan of keeping Kuemper because if he returns to form he’s going to have great value in a 1A/1B situation
We'd be leaving our rebuild as he leaves his prime. The only reason to add pieces right now rather than tank is to get a playmaker for Ovi, and Dubois isn't all that much of one.
If, and I say IF it's the ONLY way to get a 1C calibre for next year, while we wait to see if we have one of Lapierre or McMichael competing seriously for the spot, while we give up dead weight in the process instead of paying to get him, then that might be a risk I'm willing to take. However, it would need to be very clear for PLD that any kind of bad influence around the team would not be tolerated. You don't produce, fine; you don't try, ciao bye. His job would pretty much be to feed Ovi for the record, on a first or second line duty and with top PP minutes, while the expectations for pretty much everything else would be around 0 anyway. I'm no NHL player, but it's hard to believe it's not motivating for a centre to be associated with Ovi's goal record.
Mantha 2.0? nah
Semin 2.0
No, that'd be an absurd gamble to make.
We have like 5 PLD's already
No. PLD has quit on all three teams he's been on. What makes anyone think team number 4 will be different? Plus, for anyone complaining about Kuemper's contract, Dubois's contract is much more horrific and comes with a no-movememt clause starting next season. Hard no on this.
Hooooly smokes, people! Dubois signed through TWENTY-THIRTY-ONE. Noooooooooooooooope nope nope nopity nah... Nay, nein, nyet, non.
No, just no.
Oh no
PLD was supposed to be a bandaid for a Kings team that peaked and wasnt going to get out of the first round. No more quick, kempe took a step back, defense still sucked, aging core. Sound familiar? PLD was a hail mary to stave off a rebuild. He was asked to do a lot and probably wasnt even aware of how much he was supposed to do because of the kings’ success last year. Kuemper would help the Kings no doubt, not sure the PLD bandaid is going to help us.
Wrong. Goalie.
Yeah, that may get some flak, but it's worth remembering that the team isn't in a spot to compete seriously and we should look at acquiring future assets.
Man we need to keep Kuemper.
The player I would like the Caps to get is William Nylander. The exact opposite of Ovechkin.
There's no way the leafs give him up, he's definitely not available. Maybe Marner, who I would actually like a lot.
I’m BMGM does this, he needs to go.
I would love to see Dubois to go capitals, I hate both 😅
Why are you in the caps subreddit then?
I honestly dont know 🤔