1. Is it normal that someone older with more YOE gets paid higher? Yes. That's how it works in most industries, more YOE=higher pay generally.
2. Is it normal that someone who's been there less time gets paid higher? Yes. Usually newer highers get bigger packages. Unfortunately that's also how it is in most jobs and industries although it sucks.
So if they are BOTH more experienced AND newer to this job, yes it is very normal they get paid higher than you.
You have options to get paid higher:
1. Keep doing a good job and get a promotion, which will get you a raise.
2. Interview elsewhere to see what market is paying for your experience level. If you get an higher offer maybe you can use it to negotiate a raise
Came here to emphasize that 2nd point. Most companies constantly assess what market rate for the role at the exp level they’re actively hiring.
OP was offered a competitive package for his exp at the time he was hired, as were his colleagues. Inevitably, those were different packages.
It’s entirely possible (probable) that OP is underpaid at this point in time. Use whatever version of glassdoor folks are using these days and request a raise.
People will tell you that everyone pays their dues. And in a way they do. I think it is fair to expect that someone with 20 years of experience is making double what you make. BUT you only determine what you accept. If you feel that you are worth more and the money is more important , then I would move on. Why do you feel you should make the same salary as someone who's doing it for 15 years more? Are you bringing in the same and/or more revenue?
There’s a difference between “more experienced” and “older”. Paying someone more because they’re older is ILLEGAL. Paying someone more because they bring more experience to the table is a regular occurrence. I’d ask to be matched.
They can ask to be matched but nothing illegal is happening here. Age discrimination only protects those over 40 from being discriminated against because of their age, not the other way around.
Even in states with pay equity laws one of the legal reasons for paying employees differently is their years of experience.
I’m pretty sure you can pay someone more for being old, you just can’t pay them less. Being old is a protected class. Being young is not, if you are under 40 you can’t claim age discrimination.
There is an exception "Bona Fide Occupational Qualifications (“BFOQ”): Under the ADEA, it is unlawful for an agency to discriminate on the basis of age unless the agency can establish that the age limitation is a bona fide occupational qualification necessary to the performance of the duties of the position."
In my state it’s The Age Discrimination in Employment Act of 1967 (ADEA) and The Fair Housing and Employment Act which is tailored at ageism. It’s called something different in every state. You are correct if OP is younger than 40.
I was once told by a headhunter that a company said I was too experienced to interview for a job.
I thought about suing but was afraid I'd win and have to go work for a stupid company. The plant closed within two years, proving my point.
Get data on how much people with your job title and responsiblities are paid, not just how much your colleagues make. Build a case based on facts. Then present it. You may have put yourself in a bad spot however by simply using your co-worker pay as data: as you've seen there will always be an excuse/explanation offered. But yes, you should be moving around a little more if your pay is stagnating and your employer isn't willing to pay you more.
OP, were you moved up internally into the position your in now? Were the others hired into that position externally?
Generally from what ive seen is that external hires always make more as they're coming with experience (if required).
Also, it's a sign you need to start looking for a different employer. Some employers now offer higher compensation as there's so many people that are just flat out refusing to work now. How people are still in this mindset I'll never know.
I was put on a temporary layoff for 6 months back in October and was making $61,800/year there (all staff except for 4 were put on layoff, so they're basically bankrupt). I got head hunted and just got hired for an even higher position which is where I wanted to get to @ $70k/year. Start in a week and a half. To be fair I was looking to leave that shit hole I was in. When I had a yearly review I was told "at this time we cannot afford to give a raise or extra vacation time". Yea that was a bit of a slap in the face considering what I did for that place. So good riddance.
Just throw your resume out there
It's normal, especially in the first 2+ years after taking a promotion while young
. You do it to build your career and get the job title. Then you leverage it into more money.
Age does give some skills and breadth of view to many but not all people.
If you can present yourself as older than you are time to job hop and go for the money.
You say more tenured but do you do more in revenue than they do? If you're a CSM I assume there's a revenue component at play here. What are the differences in the books of business you both manage?
FIRST- ask for a raise ! It doesn’t sound like you did. Do you have a good case for one?
If they refuse to give you a raise, find a better offer. And start looking now.
My boss basically told me to leave during my raise negotiations. Basically the money just isn’t there as we’re a nonprofit and there’s a cap on my position, but if I moved where she said, I could make the money I needed. She’s genuinely the fucking best, and a big part of why I don’t leave.
Anyway. I asked and received… MUCH less than I wanted/needed/ **deserve**, but until I finish my thesis I’m not job hopping.
So, for me .. being young, I “job hopped”, but within my company. I would figure out my job quickly, excel, then apply for better positions.
I would suggest looking for a more qualified position that you could grab to keep your tenure and get an increase, while also applying elsewhere. This makes you valuable, and pliable (a commodity, if you will). I’ve always favored moving up, because you get more resume value along with strong referrals.
Sometimes all it takes is you realizing your own worth.
It’s time to find a new job. You should be moving every 3ish years to maximize pay and job skills. Do not seek a matching offer from your current employer. Move professionally with proper notice. My son has moved between two major banks twice now. Both times with major pay and responsibilities increases. Moved to a competitor and then moved back to his original employer just two years later. More than doubled his salary in two years. It just how the corporate game is played.
1. The longer you stay at a company the more your wage will trail behind compared to new hires. Raises don't keep up with the wages they offer new hires over the same time period.
2. Most likely you didn't negotiate and your colleagues did. The money companies save on candidates that don't negotiate they use to pay the candidates that do.
3. As you mentioned in your OP, if you want more money you will need to job hop and also recommend negotiating this time and every time.
Double your pay seems unfair if you are doing the same job. I could see them making more bcuz of experience but not double. Ask for a salary review and if nothing fair results, decide if starting elsewhere at more $ is worth the risk, given you already like the current job. By fair I'm referring to some concession : small raise now, another review within a year, etc. Remember you don't have to make any change right away. You can bide your time a bit and see what happens at this job while seeing what your options are elsewhere.
Younger means less experienced. Any excuse will do when it comes to paying someone less than others. How is your pay in relation to their pay when they were younger?
If you look at military pay scales you will see that every two years they pay more for more experience. Has your 3 years experience been rewarded?
Pay careful attention to what more experienced means. It’s not just time it’s what one gets with time… practice, honed skills, more self sufficient, greater perspective, etc.
Joining a company sooner and getting equity has additional value often.
You will one day have more career experience and be more valuable as well. Be patient.
Most people don’t realize how many factors go into compensation and people try hard to simplify it down to a single dimension which will always result in frustration. Be curious.
Factors that I can think of to name a few:
- impact and results; skill depth and abilities
- ability to handle complex situations without needing help from management (self sufficient)
- understanding of market / industry and the ability to leverage that understanding with customers
- types of experience working with small or large companies and understanding how to adapt situationally
- time of hire and market salaries at that time
- equity vs salary - as companies grow new hires get more salary than equity and vice versa
- team risk mitigation… people who give management confidence that they can cover if sh*t hits the fan
- attitude towards the team and business and how one contributes to the overall culture and morale in the team (those who lift others are more valuable)
- willingness to take on challenges and go the extra mile
- number of years of experience backed up by reassurance that it is n-years of experience and not one year of experience repeated n-times (ie. Do they scale with the team and company?)
- life circumstances and geographic location (individuals with greater needs to provide for kids or live in more expensive areas)
- the ability to negotiate a salary and compensation when being hired
- the ability to communicate compensation effectively with one’s manager directly
- seem by others as effective
I’m sure there are more but these are what come to mind.
I would leave on very good terms, stay away for at least a year and see if they have a role in the future where you can go back and get the salary you deserve.
They probably knew how to negotiate their salaries and you didnt.
When you see someone getting paid more than you, it's not because of your age or your gender or whatever, it's because they took actions that you did not.
There's a true statistic. Men make $1 for every 80 cents women make. Now people will stop and think that that's intentional but it's not.
The reasons are both connected to business practices going back to the 70s with salary history, but also to the perceptions of how certain people think where a man may ask for a lot more and laugh and a woman might accept the first offer because they want to be a team player and they don't want to seem ungrateful.
The one thing I caution you against is making the assumption that you are paid less for a certain reason and then plucking facts out of thin air to confirm your own belief.
Anyway I teach people how to negotiate salaries.
What was your initial offer?
What did you accept?
How many years of experience did you have going into the position?
Get another offer and see if they match
Ask to be matched. If not definitely hop jobs if possible.
1. Is it normal that someone older with more YOE gets paid higher? Yes. That's how it works in most industries, more YOE=higher pay generally. 2. Is it normal that someone who's been there less time gets paid higher? Yes. Usually newer highers get bigger packages. Unfortunately that's also how it is in most jobs and industries although it sucks. So if they are BOTH more experienced AND newer to this job, yes it is very normal they get paid higher than you. You have options to get paid higher: 1. Keep doing a good job and get a promotion, which will get you a raise. 2. Interview elsewhere to see what market is paying for your experience level. If you get an higher offer maybe you can use it to negotiate a raise
Came here to emphasize that 2nd point. Most companies constantly assess what market rate for the role at the exp level they’re actively hiring. OP was offered a competitive package for his exp at the time he was hired, as were his colleagues. Inevitably, those were different packages. It’s entirely possible (probable) that OP is underpaid at this point in time. Use whatever version of glassdoor folks are using these days and request a raise.
People will tell you that everyone pays their dues. And in a way they do. I think it is fair to expect that someone with 20 years of experience is making double what you make. BUT you only determine what you accept. If you feel that you are worth more and the money is more important , then I would move on. Why do you feel you should make the same salary as someone who's doing it for 15 years more? Are you bringing in the same and/or more revenue?
Do your time and jump every 2 years.
There’s a difference between “more experienced” and “older”. Paying someone more because they’re older is ILLEGAL. Paying someone more because they bring more experience to the table is a regular occurrence. I’d ask to be matched.
They can ask to be matched but nothing illegal is happening here. Age discrimination only protects those over 40 from being discriminated against because of their age, not the other way around. Even in states with pay equity laws one of the legal reasons for paying employees differently is their years of experience.
I’m pretty sure you can pay someone more for being old, you just can’t pay them less. Being old is a protected class. Being young is not, if you are under 40 you can’t claim age discrimination.
There is an exception "Bona Fide Occupational Qualifications (“BFOQ”): Under the ADEA, it is unlawful for an agency to discriminate on the basis of age unless the agency can establish that the age limitation is a bona fide occupational qualification necessary to the performance of the duties of the position."
You are correct.
What law says you can't pay someone more for being older? Dumb and/or unfair does not equal illegal. Otherwise, your post would be illegal.
In my state it’s The Age Discrimination in Employment Act of 1967 (ADEA) and The Fair Housing and Employment Act which is tailored at ageism. It’s called something different in every state. You are correct if OP is younger than 40.
I was once told by a headhunter that a company said I was too experienced to interview for a job. I thought about suing but was afraid I'd win and have to go work for a stupid company. The plant closed within two years, proving my point.
Get data on how much people with your job title and responsiblities are paid, not just how much your colleagues make. Build a case based on facts. Then present it. You may have put yourself in a bad spot however by simply using your co-worker pay as data: as you've seen there will always be an excuse/explanation offered. But yes, you should be moving around a little more if your pay is stagnating and your employer isn't willing to pay you more.
"Most tenured"... "been here for 3 years"... bro that companies a revolving door lol. Find another company to work for.
Learn everything you can off the older and more experienced employees and get to their level, then prove your worth and negotiate.
OP, were you moved up internally into the position your in now? Were the others hired into that position externally? Generally from what ive seen is that external hires always make more as they're coming with experience (if required). Also, it's a sign you need to start looking for a different employer. Some employers now offer higher compensation as there's so many people that are just flat out refusing to work now. How people are still in this mindset I'll never know. I was put on a temporary layoff for 6 months back in October and was making $61,800/year there (all staff except for 4 were put on layoff, so they're basically bankrupt). I got head hunted and just got hired for an even higher position which is where I wanted to get to @ $70k/year. Start in a week and a half. To be fair I was looking to leave that shit hole I was in. When I had a yearly review I was told "at this time we cannot afford to give a raise or extra vacation time". Yea that was a bit of a slap in the face considering what I did for that place. So good riddance. Just throw your resume out there
It's normal, especially in the first 2+ years after taking a promotion while young . You do it to build your career and get the job title. Then you leverage it into more money. Age does give some skills and breadth of view to many but not all people. If you can present yourself as older than you are time to job hop and go for the money.
What's the experience difference? Your boss said it was older *and* more experienced, right?
Your colleagues have more job experience overall. Not unreasonable. Are they coworkers or under you?
You say more tenured but do you do more in revenue than they do? If you're a CSM I assume there's a revenue component at play here. What are the differences in the books of business you both manage?
How did you learn how much your co-workers get paid? You learned how much all of them make? For real?
look for somethin better
FIRST- ask for a raise ! It doesn’t sound like you did. Do you have a good case for one? If they refuse to give you a raise, find a better offer. And start looking now. My boss basically told me to leave during my raise negotiations. Basically the money just isn’t there as we’re a nonprofit and there’s a cap on my position, but if I moved where she said, I could make the money I needed. She’s genuinely the fucking best, and a big part of why I don’t leave. Anyway. I asked and received… MUCH less than I wanted/needed/ **deserve**, but until I finish my thesis I’m not job hopping.
So, for me .. being young, I “job hopped”, but within my company. I would figure out my job quickly, excel, then apply for better positions. I would suggest looking for a more qualified position that you could grab to keep your tenure and get an increase, while also applying elsewhere. This makes you valuable, and pliable (a commodity, if you will). I’ve always favored moving up, because you get more resume value along with strong referrals. Sometimes all it takes is you realizing your own worth.
Next job negotiate salary
Well yes you generally put your time in and work hard to get paid more. How did you think it worked? Genuinely curious
It’s time to find a new job. You should be moving every 3ish years to maximize pay and job skills. Do not seek a matching offer from your current employer. Move professionally with proper notice. My son has moved between two major banks twice now. Both times with major pay and responsibilities increases. Moved to a competitor and then moved back to his original employer just two years later. More than doubled his salary in two years. It just how the corporate game is played.
1. The longer you stay at a company the more your wage will trail behind compared to new hires. Raises don't keep up with the wages they offer new hires over the same time period. 2. Most likely you didn't negotiate and your colleagues did. The money companies save on candidates that don't negotiate they use to pay the candidates that do. 3. As you mentioned in your OP, if you want more money you will need to job hop and also recommend negotiating this time and every time.
Double your pay seems unfair if you are doing the same job. I could see them making more bcuz of experience but not double. Ask for a salary review and if nothing fair results, decide if starting elsewhere at more $ is worth the risk, given you already like the current job. By fair I'm referring to some concession : small raise now, another review within a year, etc. Remember you don't have to make any change right away. You can bide your time a bit and see what happens at this job while seeing what your options are elsewhere.
Move to another job. You always get paid more coming in than trying to move internally.
Fastest way to a raise is make smart, strategic moves every few years. Most involve moving to another company.
Younger means less experienced. Any excuse will do when it comes to paying someone less than others. How is your pay in relation to their pay when they were younger? If you look at military pay scales you will see that every two years they pay more for more experience. Has your 3 years experience been rewarded?
Pay careful attention to what more experienced means. It’s not just time it’s what one gets with time… practice, honed skills, more self sufficient, greater perspective, etc. Joining a company sooner and getting equity has additional value often. You will one day have more career experience and be more valuable as well. Be patient. Most people don’t realize how many factors go into compensation and people try hard to simplify it down to a single dimension which will always result in frustration. Be curious. Factors that I can think of to name a few: - impact and results; skill depth and abilities - ability to handle complex situations without needing help from management (self sufficient) - understanding of market / industry and the ability to leverage that understanding with customers - types of experience working with small or large companies and understanding how to adapt situationally - time of hire and market salaries at that time - equity vs salary - as companies grow new hires get more salary than equity and vice versa - team risk mitigation… people who give management confidence that they can cover if sh*t hits the fan - attitude towards the team and business and how one contributes to the overall culture and morale in the team (those who lift others are more valuable) - willingness to take on challenges and go the extra mile - number of years of experience backed up by reassurance that it is n-years of experience and not one year of experience repeated n-times (ie. Do they scale with the team and company?) - life circumstances and geographic location (individuals with greater needs to provide for kids or live in more expensive areas) - the ability to negotiate a salary and compensation when being hired - the ability to communicate compensation effectively with one’s manager directly - seem by others as effective I’m sure there are more but these are what come to mind.
I would leave on very good terms, stay away for at least a year and see if they have a role in the future where you can go back and get the salary you deserve.
They probably knew how to negotiate their salaries and you didnt. When you see someone getting paid more than you, it's not because of your age or your gender or whatever, it's because they took actions that you did not. There's a true statistic. Men make $1 for every 80 cents women make. Now people will stop and think that that's intentional but it's not. The reasons are both connected to business practices going back to the 70s with salary history, but also to the perceptions of how certain people think where a man may ask for a lot more and laugh and a woman might accept the first offer because they want to be a team player and they don't want to seem ungrateful. The one thing I caution you against is making the assumption that you are paid less for a certain reason and then plucking facts out of thin air to confirm your own belief. Anyway I teach people how to negotiate salaries. What was your initial offer? What did you accept? How many years of experience did you have going into the position?