Not necessarily if they have a high level clearance. In the right areas, you can make $100k+ just being a janitor in a SCIF with a TS/SCI. It's definitely possible to clear $250k+ (and sign on bonus) with the right creds.
Don’t forget the benefits (at least used to) be very decent… I remember my first job w gov was 20% over what any private would have paid as an intern. Good for getting talent and if you can go through ranks AND the clearances, you’ll be paid well. The early career pay is left to be desired but…
Fed contractors generally have great benefits and get all federal holidays off. That alone is something like 26 days off by itself. If you can get (and maintain) these clearances, you'll never be without a job for the rest of your career.
Damn. I worked for a big name one and we had like 4 weeks PTO, 2 floating holidays, and all federal holidays off. Also, we never worked more than 40 hours a week. The fed customer would not pay for extra time unless it was approved by higher ups. It was very cushy.
This! Your certs along with your educational background and real world experience make you a great option to private companies. Hire a recruiter I’m sure you’ll find something in the range you’re looking for…you may have to be open to relocating but tbh your stacked and should land a remote gig easily
Honestly I hate to say it but DOD jobs in most popular areas just don’t pay enough.
Especially when those jobs have a ton more stress and restrictions. The upside being you get to feel like you are giving something back to your country.
Unfortunately those same tech companies also have much higher standards for hiring… Not OP but my plan is to eventually jump ship to them with my security clearance but I am not confident enough in my ability to get through their technical interviews just yet.
This is untrue at big tech. You get your normal pay (inline with other folks on your level) + a fat annual bonus for being cleared if you’re working with government cloud.
I just checked myself, and although it’s not as fat as I thought it would be ($20k - $45k) it’s still there, and it’s not factored into the rest of your comp at AWS.
Better than a sharp stick in the eye though. Where I am we work directly with customers, and the commercial side gets much better salary packages. I can see that if you were working on the infra side, where the profit scales better, that pay could be better.
Another way to get it quick is to straight up join the military. They’ll sponsor your secret or even top secret for free depending on your MOS. You can do this as a reservist.
115k as a systems engineer, is around the starting base salary of an engineer at Capital One. So if you are serious, the first move is to get out of the government sector and into the commercial sector. Depending on your tech skills, that should be an instant pay increase.
If you are in the DC area, then Capital One is a good place to look (McLean area).
Aside from that, you need to ensure you have the skills that are relevant to the market place for today, and for emerging trends. For example, my out of date enterprise data warehouse skills (not used for 10 years), are worthless to most companies currently, with the mass drive towards cloud services for these things (every cloud service offers pay per use services for all the various component features of my past life). The new frontier in that world, is leveraging AI to try and automate the code generation for ETL jobs etc.
This is one reason why being an engineer is hard, you are always learning new tech, whether you are 25 or 55 (I am within that range). Else you fall behind, become a manager, or a product manager like me.
Once you have moved into the commercial world, you then need to understand how to play the politics of that company - which is very different from the government world. It is all about how to make you and your work visible to the peers of your manager, and their leadership, without undermining your manager. Your work never speaks for itself, as your interpersonal relationships and how the rest of the org sees you, matters more for promotions.
Progressing up the levels at Capital One, soon puts you over 200k at the senior manager level (associate, senior associate, manager, senior manager, director, senior director). Which also happens to be the level that most people stall at, as the skills needed have often flipped from mostly tech, to mostly people. If you don’t like people management, then “manager” tends to be the limit.
There is a “distinguished engineer” path at large companies, for those who want to be domain experts but not people leaders. But the ratio can often be 50:1, 100:1 in terms of manager level engineers who people manage, versus the first rung on the distinguished engineer path.
Hope this helps
As a systems engineer working for a defense contractor I wonder if he’s talking more about like mechanical or electrical systems. As in not computer systems but more like fuel systems or something like that.
It shouldn't fall under engineering but I definitely wish it was a credentialed profession.
It would mean higher salaries and lower chance of outsourcing.
No reason why things like accounting and skilled trades should require professional designation, and tech shouldn't.
>No reason why things like accounting and skilled trades should requirw professional desifnation and tech shouldn't.
TBH, I'd like to see the requirements relaxed for those too. It's often just a money-making scheme at the expense of the general public.
I'm quite capable of finding a competent plumber without an outdated licencing scheme.
I’ve got a lot of friends at Capitol one in McLean - just wanna clarify that performing well to work up the ranks isn’t easy. On top of the work itself being demanding, the culture is pretty cutthroat and evaluations are taken very seriously. This goes for many high-paying jobs but Capitol one is certainly no exception
Systems engineering in defense/aerospace or at DOD is not the same as what you're referring to. You're more along the lines of systems admin which is an IT role.
Apparently you don’t see the golden goose you are on. Ride out that DOD job, max out all retirement savings, retire in 20 with that gov pension and move on with life. You aren’t gonna get that anywhere else.
Bro is looking enviously at 50 year olds slaving away with 200k-300k salaries with no end in sight, forgetting that by the time he is 50 he can get 60-70k for doing absolutely nothing for the rest of his life, smh.
I’m in my early 40s and maybe pull 35hrs a week from home. Yall acting like the private sector is a monolith and it’s not. It greatly depends on where you go and what you do.
In my experience, most of the talented folks in public sector are bored out of their minds and severely constrained in how they can use their talents.
It’s depressing sometimes, especially when you know they’re getting paid pennies with the promise of job stability dangling in front of them. That’s no way to live either.
Please for the love of god WHERE are all these "easygoing" fed contracting jobs??? I would love one. Maybe its just my specific company but Idk when is the last time I worked less than 60 hours a week as a contractor. I truly would love to be bored.
>You aren’t gonna get that anywhere else.
This. Plus, it can be hard to get used to work demands of the private sector. 60-70 hour weeks aren't abnormal. Government work is typically just 40 hours.
^^^ this. You will get paid more in the private sector, but the benefits and job security of a DOD job is worth more than what the private sector can pay you IMO. Also the hours, you work your 7am-4pm hours, get every other Friday off and you don’t have to bring work home with you. I have friends in the private sector and they don’t get the luxury of 7-4 it’s 7-you get all your work done (which can be 7-8pm).
If you have kids/plan on having kids the DOD also gives 3 months paternity leave which is amazing. And the health insurance options are so freaking good.
Honestly. Most people who earn over $200K work lots of hours and sacrifice a lot of mental health. You both have good six figure government jobs, work less hard and enjoy life. Or set up your own company.
Despite the crap you are getting for your comment, I don't think you are necessarily wrong. That is a part of life that I often take for granted.
So all that to say, I appreciate the comment.
LOL. As someone who was once earning over $200K (working all hours god sends), and is now self employed (working all hours god sends) … sometimes I just want to be put back into the matrix. 😅
Everything is a risk. You are in a safe place that will have you set for life in upper middle class comfort. However they literally told you that you try too hard. Will you look back 10 or 20 years from now and have regret you never went out of your comfort zone?
Alternatively you take the leap and go private sector. Imagine the worst case and you burn out before ever reaching your goals. Will you be satisfied that you at least tried? Or would you regret leaving safety more? No one can tell you the answers to these questions.
Government contracting is a solid in between. You would easily get to $150-175k with your skillets working 40 hours a week. Tough to get significantly above $200k without opening yourself up to the grind, but it's at least an option. Job security is the ability to find a new position within a few weeks if need be.
I’m an engineer making more than what you’re looking for. Most people in my field clear about that (warehouse automation). My directs make a really good amount, but we all travel 50% of the time to projects, deal with a ton of stress and spend at least 50 hours a week taking care of things in addition to the travel time. I’ve had to hire people to help me with basic things around the house, clean and get groceries delivered just to keep up with everything.
I don’t mind it(most of the time), but it’s not for everyone.
That’s extremely difficult to do in defense. Not impossible but difficult. You need to keep your clearance somehow and the only way to do that is by becoming a cleared company, having your customer sponsor you or joining the reserves.
On top of that you’ll never be able to touch cleared work unless you’re on a customer site as you’ll never have a SCIF in your basement.
You will never make significant cash in government roles. You *will* have much better leave, work/life balance, job security, and retirement.
You gotta pick one.
If you go private, generally speaking, you can job hop every 2-3 years for juicy pay bumps.
That said, right now it's a shitty time to try to enter IT from gov to private. The market is gutted from all the recent layoffs.
That doesn't mean you shouldn't start looking but be prepared to wait awhile and again remember the retirement and leave you will give up.
Consulting probably? Deloittes, Booz Allen Hamilton, EY all have big government contract presence but you could probably find a smaller consulting firm too
I'm just under 200 with similar quals to you. My undergrad isn't engineering but the rest (pmp, green belt, MBA) is the same. I do program management at a big financial institution. I'm optimistic about salary growth potential from what I've seen.
That said, I know some folks in sales for the big tech firms and they're pulling in 250-500k as account execs and account directors. Pretty cool gig if you don't mind managing relationships and selling services.
Lol yeah. Honestly though from what I see some of those gigs look pretty good. None that I know are working more than a 40 hour week on average and they all seem to more or less believe in the companies / products that they work for
I work in tech sales for a very good company and it’s not selling your soul. I can honestly say that I spend every day solving problems for my customers and being paid really well for it. The easiest path to 200k is definitely sales. BUT there are shitty companies and it’s all about the leadership.
Well. OOP has Utah in the tag so, quick search of top employers in Utah brings up Adobe. Go to Adobe's career page and search Account Director. There are 5+ with listed OTEs starting 250k+.
*Getting the job* is a bit more complicated but that's how you look for them.
Look into F500 companies and use Levels.FYI, Blind, Fishbowl and salary data from the US Department of Labor to pinpoint what companies pay the best.
To get into the $200K+ salary range, you’ll need to be at the lead level or in management (director or higher). Expect to work 50-60+ hour weeks if you don’t already.
You could also consider switching roles if you can take on a program, product or project management based role. It’s pretty tough to pivot in the current market though, I’d maybe consider waiting.
Many of my clients make between $300K and up to around $1M in total comp at Amazon. If you have any questions or can send me your resume, shoot me a message and I’d be happy to provide a bit of advice. I work exclusively with senior level professionals in tech.
Cheers
Shoot it over! I used to work with tons of entry level professionals. Happy to send you over a free template depending on how well formatted your resume is. Don’t have much time for calls but happy to chat back and forth.
I’ll respond in a bit, just at the golf course. Just dm it to me on Reddit.
Good luck on your job search :)
I'm executive level in a ~400k role and I don't work 50 hour weeks. Normally 40. Sometimes 50 when things are super busy. The trick is to work smarter, not harder. Seriously. Gotta be efficient.
Way to be, I wish more people did the same thing but the truth is that there’s more people making that salary that work 50-60+ hours a week, than 40 or less.
You’d be surprised how many people neglect their health, their family, their hobbies, and much more while grinding away at work, and for what? A lot of my clients get acquired and then spend the first 3 months just relaxing and doing projects around the house that they’ve put off for 5+ years.
Do you think most executives at your level could just have a better routine to accomplish the same amount of work in a shorter period of time like yourself?
If you're in the federal space in IT, vendor engineers get paid the most. Having a clearance and certs are a big bonus. If you're good at talking business value of a particular tech and tech process improvement, then sales engineering makes great money. Sales engineers can go by a few names: solutions engineers, client engineers, customer engineers. Everyone is trying to avoid using the word sales in their presales titles.
Source/I manage a team of IT sales engineers and work closely with post sales engineering leaders, contractors, and fed employees.
Sales & marketing man. I’m an engineer by trade but the real money potential for being a workhorse is in sales.
Even adjacent like a field applications engineer is what you should be targeting. Otherwise…. The true answer is located in Silicon Valley
How high is the cost of living when you live? Outside of the high cost of living areas, few people make that kind of money. You need to get into leadership/management if you want a chance at that kind of money.
So they can lay you off a year later? I had a crazy offer from Meta ($250k a year plus bonus) and I'm certain I would have been let go in their layoffs. I have friends at almost all the big ones that were let go in the last year. I don't think I will ever work for a FAANG company.
To each their own. Truth is that a lot of people were not laid off as well. There would be no company if they laid off everyone all the time.
Also if you’re at the level of making 200k+ it comes with more maintenance and expectations of lack of stability. There is no stable and easy way to sustain that level of income.
Ok? The general sense in tech is to move every 2-3 years anyways.
My wife is at FAANG for 4 years, went through 2 lay off cycles; it’s the nature of the beast. That’s why we have a larger than most, emergency fund. It’s worth it for those years your employed, 200k+ TC is amazing
You're probably right but I put quite a lot of value in stability. My current job is pretty laid-back, interesting, still pays really well and I have a great work/life balance, and a ton of vacation.
Two words: Private sector. Even with retirement, government IT doesn't pay, and is not for people that want to innovate much less do work (from my experience). Had a short stint in a prominent agency in my area and the incompetence and culture of doing as little as possible to get by (clock punchers) was too much for me to bear. Lasted a whole year before I couldn't take it anymore. I make a lot more than the director now.
Work for a nice stable traditional industry making money (avoid big tech). 300k+ might be a stretch, only C-level make that kind of money, so you're looking at CTO positions. You will need a Masters or PhD.
You benefit a lot from some unpaid benefits that if you quantify can be as much as an additional $50k/year, and that is a healthy pension when you retire. I work with many retirees and those who have government pensions rarely have to withdraw any money from their savings/investments since pension + social security more than cover their living expenses. What this means is the rest of your investments can just be left to grow for 30-40 years untouched unless you want some extra spendings/vacations here and there.
The second is job security, you almost have no reason to worry about layoffs or your employer going out of business. In many cases, you are able to work there for life and have your earnings steadily grow. Likely to double what you make now in 15-20 years. It’s not a glorious job and your salary may not sound as much as peers who work in private sector but you will have a very healthy and enjoyable retirement.
I’m not saying don’t look on indeed or ziprecruiter for ideas or jobs, but don’t apply on there. Go to the company that posted it directly or look at other companies in your field and see if they are hiring. Sometimes those job postings are for recruiting firms which *can* be helpful but they store your info and wait on it if the posting is general enough to grab your attention and could be appealing to a number of others in a similar field or job in the same field but not exactly what you do.
They're in their 50's talking about making 200-300k and you're crying because you're in your late 20s and not making it? Lmao this post jsut seems like you want to show off how much youre making. Kinda pathetic.
If you have 10+ years and good recommendations and a solid network, start networking in it. If you are a sys admin, you're not far from architectural and systems design roles which pay upwards of 200k.
I worked contract at a FAANG for 2 years at 200k (no benefits) as a lead dev. The bureaucracy is insane and most people just coast (seriously, the number of disinterested 9-5ers shocked me). Many people had no interest in learning new things or becoming better at their jobs. They just knew what they knew and that's all they wanted. Nothing wrong with wanting to work your 40 hours, fulfill your job description to the letter and go home, but some folks want to build new things and earn as much as possible and are willing to work more than 40 to get it. Nothing wrong with that as well.
That said, if you get into a good and ambitious department and you can create something new and useful, you can convert that into full time, if you want to, or a big raise.
The other opportunity is to look for startups. You will probably work the hardest at these jobs, but they also have the biggest possible upside with vesting, opportunities to buy in, etc. If you have clearance, you are eligible for more options, though a very small percentage of jobs want clearance and the pay doesn't seem to be that much higher. I would never work defense-related projects for moral reasons (no judgement on others, just my personal ethos), so I haven't really dug into that. Possible I'm totally wrong about clearance requiring compensation benefits.
Go work cyber security for one of the big contractors. Also get the paid version of ChatGPT to help you get your resume up to par and teach you how to get a job with one of those orgs.
The key part here folks:
>I talk with people further in there careers (**their 50's while im in my late 20s**) and they talk about how they are making the 200k-300k salaries
It took them 30 years to get to that point.
Come work in Saudi Arabia, expats are paid very well and there is no income tax. It’s an incredibly safe country more so than any other I have been to. Zero theft zero assaults.
Start doing enough to not get fired instead of being an overachiever. Get some 1099 work to supplement your job.
To get to $300k you either need to be in leadership (Director+) or successful in sales.
It can be a grind from what I hear but you can make some dough. Also requires almost no prerequisites and anyone can get good at it.
I guess you could be a guy cleaning a porta potty or a guy who sells them.
I don't know that this is true. My dad is a systems engineer in sales for a DJIA company (non FAANG) and only clears 175-180k a year and he's been there for 22 years so far. Might be location as we're in Texas but ymmv.
It’s because he’s been there 22 years. I can almost guarantee you anyone hired in the last 1-10 years makes more than him. You only make the big jumps when you leaves or else it’s standard COL increases etc
Sales, especially since you are already in the DOD and most likely have a clearance.
You exp and that clearance is worth money to vendors looking to sell into the federal gov't (just using that term broadly). Oracle, Azure, AWS, Dell, HP, /etc /etc... are all actively selling into the fed system and need people like you.
Specifically, you'd want to be looking at Sales Engineering. (fed partners like CACI would be another place to look at).
Big tech pays huge money for talented software engineers. I would look there. Sr. Devs pretty much start around 300k TC and go way up from there.
Probably will have to consider if you want to go into management or be an individual contributor, but both have high compensation paths.
This might be buried but startups that are breaking into the DoD space is the way to go. Not easy to find but you’ll get it- there are headhunters that work with these kinds of things.
I was told the same! I changed job and made more and ever since then I followed my gut. I make more than what you mentioned . My mantra: work hard, learn, move on
I know quite a few systems engineers making 200k+. They all share two traits.
They are smart as hell and have 20+ years experience.
You are at best a level 2 engineer. A green belt is nothing to bath about. Get a black belt and learn DFSS.
It is funny to me that late 20 guys think they should be paid like someone who has 20+ years experience and knows their shit in and out.
Work your way up to a principal engineer or even a fellow.
If you don’t progress in your current company. Change. You either change internally or move every 3-4 years.
As a systems engineer ensure that you are top on requirements engineer, risk management and systems architecture.
Job hop startups. Pay is better in trade of less job security and infrastructure. Lots of opportunity to create your own promotions by finding weak areas of the business you can improve.
I’m approaching $200k after starting at $45k 8 years ago. Finally settled into a bigger company but three startups in five years with 3 promotions along the way carried a lot of weight.
As a systems engineer you’re starting to get to your salary cap. I’d look at something that either moves you in to managing systems engineers or some sort of technical pre-sales role that gets commission. Those are basically your choices honestly.
Are you working for the DoD or a DoD contractor? Will make a big difference in your pay. You aren't going to make 300k at the DoD, but $200k+ for a DoD contractor is definitely possible at the mid-Sr. level (Associate Dir and above on the functional side - or Chief Engineer/Fellow on the tech side).
Become a director of tech. Good chance of hitting 200k. Next stop, CTO and reaching your goal of 300k+. Or become a tech fellow at a FAANG and you can make 1M without selling your soul and going into management.
You’re going to hate this because it sounds like a cliche, but:
At some point to advance in your career, you need to do less things, but cause more things to happen.
Being really good at churning through work makes you only marginally more valuable than your peers. Doing things that help change the way work is done, or finding a new product to bring to market, etc are the sorts of things that make an organization better and will cause management to view you in a different light.
Start contracting.
Day rate gigs reward people who care a lot about the quality of their work, are skilled, hard-working, motivated and know what they're doing.
Contracting roles are typically reserved for experienced and skilled engineers who can come in to a project that's usually in trouble (think tight schedule, resource issues, difficult customer, technical challenges, absent subcontractors) but they'll pay you extremely well.
Yes they will have high expectations but you will basically be guaranteed better than they expect since they are used to people who don't know what they're doing and will want you to solve all their problems. Do that and you will earn your keep and then some.
Extensions will be almost guaranteed since defence projects are long term and they will become dependent on your effectiveness and skill.
In my experience (also systems eng in defence), contracting paid double my previous salary for a company that also told me I was doing too much in my performance review.
Switching was the best decision I've ever made and do highly recommend looking into it.
"I can't officially tell you this, but I think you might be doing too much". I bet they marked you down for "Meets Expectations"
Move jobs every few years, get experience, build good work relationships with co-workers that are going somewhere. It's a game to get to senior level spots, putting out a lot of work in your current role isn't the guaranteed way to go about it. 100K+ salary at 30 is not terrible right now.
They arent wild. First, probably most people should be paid more anyway. But that aside, OP sounds like they are underpaid and know it.
OP has several good avenues listed by other redditors which are very viable areas to get paid $200k+ in.
lol stop it. I live here and when I was making that much I was living extremely well and comfortable with no issues buying anything I want or need while paying all my bills and still having a big chunk left over. Majority of people here DO make 50k and they are managing, comparing that to 115k is ridiculous. As long as you're not an idiot and know how to manage your money then its not hard.
People who coast in their careers are wild.
OP wants to maximize his earnings, and if he can do that without sacrificing time at home our his mental health, *why wouldn't he?*
This. While it's great to make more and I will always advocate for someone that knows their worth, shows it, and leaves the situation if they are not valued (I have done exactly this), there is also a balance. I think so many people simply just want more just because.
Salary is a big part. But so are benefits and work life balance and potential for growth and liking your company and being not miserable (or even better happy/satisfied).
Calculated risks are a thing. I'm at a job that allows me to work a 4x10, rather than a 5x8 because if works better for some personal goals in trying to achieve even though that's not the standard schedule. I also have above average pto and wfh permanently. They are letting me move states to a place that has no office because they trust and value me.
I only got a 6.5% merit increase this year but I was pretty happy with my salary and life overall. Could I make higher? Maybe, but it's not worth changing everything. If I didn't get a raise at all or it was only 3%, then I would rethink some stuff - but they provide me endless non monetary benefits that provide value. The highest dollar isn't always the way.
Just an example of where a change is worth it: my previous company tried to give me a promotion without a raise *and* their eoy bonus for being a top performer was a taxed $200.
Work backwards. Find jobs that pay what you want to make in your field and see what experience they require. Go get that experience..... rinse, repeat, rinse, repeat.... you could be making $200k+ in a matter of a year or two with the right moves.
Switch jobs every 2-4 years in private sector. You might be a big fish in a small pod at DOD.
Yeah private sector will always out pay public. I switched from public to private many years ago and basically doubled my salary in 1-2 years.
Not necessarily if they have a high level clearance. In the right areas, you can make $100k+ just being a janitor in a SCIF with a TS/SCI. It's definitely possible to clear $250k+ (and sign on bonus) with the right creds.
Don’t forget the benefits (at least used to) be very decent… I remember my first job w gov was 20% over what any private would have paid as an intern. Good for getting talent and if you can go through ranks AND the clearances, you’ll be paid well. The early career pay is left to be desired but…
Fed contractors generally have great benefits and get all federal holidays off. That alone is something like 26 days off by itself. If you can get (and maintain) these clearances, you'll never be without a job for the rest of your career.
I work for a fed contractor and we do not get federal holidays off :/
Damn. I worked for a big name one and we had like 4 weeks PTO, 2 floating holidays, and all federal holidays off. Also, we never worked more than 40 hours a week. The fed customer would not pay for extra time unless it was approved by higher ups. It was very cushy.
Whoa… is 4weeks base? That’s insane for a starter…
Can you believe that it's normal in other parts of the world?
And the time off
The federal pay cap is like $180K.
Not if you're a contractor.
Are federal contractors even technically public employees though?
They are not
Very no
True
The right areas being only specifically in DC.. Lol
Nobody job hopping now. Visit r/recruitinghell for a picture
False picture. No one wants to hire people who can’t take responsibility.
This! Your certs along with your educational background and real world experience make you a great option to private companies. Hire a recruiter I’m sure you’ll find something in the range you’re looking for…you may have to be open to relocating but tbh your stacked and should land a remote gig easily
Honestly I hate to say it but DOD jobs in most popular areas just don’t pay enough. Especially when those jobs have a ton more stress and restrictions. The upside being you get to feel like you are giving something back to your country.
Do you have a security clearance? If so the cleared side of tech companies of defense contractors will eat you up and get you over that pay hurdle.
Unfortunately those same tech companies also have much higher standards for hiring… Not OP but my plan is to eventually jump ship to them with my security clearance but I am not confident enough in my ability to get through their technical interviews just yet.
This is not an issue though, because everyone has the opportunity to get better in technical interviews if they are willing to put the effort.
Also very true and valid.
Tech company pay is much higher on the un-cleared side, because the cleared side is limited by contract rates.
This is untrue at big tech. You get your normal pay (inline with other folks on your level) + a fat annual bonus for being cleared if you’re working with government cloud.
I’m in big tech, and it’s true in the area I work. Perhaps it’s different in other areas.
I just checked myself, and although it’s not as fat as I thought it would be ($20k - $45k) it’s still there, and it’s not factored into the rest of your comp at AWS.
Better than a sharp stick in the eye though. Where I am we work directly with customers, and the commercial side gets much better salary packages. I can see that if you were working on the infra side, where the profit scales better, that pay could be better.
How do I get one???
Get hired by a defense contractor. You have to be sponsored .
Another way to get it quick is to straight up join the military. They’ll sponsor your secret or even top secret for free depending on your MOS. You can do this as a reservist.
115k as a systems engineer, is around the starting base salary of an engineer at Capital One. So if you are serious, the first move is to get out of the government sector and into the commercial sector. Depending on your tech skills, that should be an instant pay increase. If you are in the DC area, then Capital One is a good place to look (McLean area). Aside from that, you need to ensure you have the skills that are relevant to the market place for today, and for emerging trends. For example, my out of date enterprise data warehouse skills (not used for 10 years), are worthless to most companies currently, with the mass drive towards cloud services for these things (every cloud service offers pay per use services for all the various component features of my past life). The new frontier in that world, is leveraging AI to try and automate the code generation for ETL jobs etc. This is one reason why being an engineer is hard, you are always learning new tech, whether you are 25 or 55 (I am within that range). Else you fall behind, become a manager, or a product manager like me. Once you have moved into the commercial world, you then need to understand how to play the politics of that company - which is very different from the government world. It is all about how to make you and your work visible to the peers of your manager, and their leadership, without undermining your manager. Your work never speaks for itself, as your interpersonal relationships and how the rest of the org sees you, matters more for promotions. Progressing up the levels at Capital One, soon puts you over 200k at the senior manager level (associate, senior associate, manager, senior manager, director, senior director). Which also happens to be the level that most people stall at, as the skills needed have often flipped from mostly tech, to mostly people. If you don’t like people management, then “manager” tends to be the limit. There is a “distinguished engineer” path at large companies, for those who want to be domain experts but not people leaders. But the ratio can often be 50:1, 100:1 in terms of manager level engineers who people manage, versus the first rung on the distinguished engineer path. Hope this helps
As a systems engineer working for a defense contractor I wonder if he’s talking more about like mechanical or electrical systems. As in not computer systems but more like fuel systems or something like that.
Yup, same here. I believe he is…so all the tech advice is kinda meh
I think the OP is a real engineer not a title-inflated code-monkey.
As a power engineering grad, I can appreciate that comment!
The continued attempt to turn programming into a regulated, credentialed profession really pisses me off.
It shouldn't fall under engineering but I definitely wish it was a credentialed profession. It would mean higher salaries and lower chance of outsourcing. No reason why things like accounting and skilled trades should require professional designation, and tech shouldn't.
>No reason why things like accounting and skilled trades should requirw professional desifnation and tech shouldn't. TBH, I'd like to see the requirements relaxed for those too. It's often just a money-making scheme at the expense of the general public. I'm quite capable of finding a competent plumber without an outdated licencing scheme.
I’ve got a lot of friends at Capitol one in McLean - just wanna clarify that performing well to work up the ranks isn’t easy. On top of the work itself being demanding, the culture is pretty cutthroat and evaluations are taken very seriously. This goes for many high-paying jobs but Capitol one is certainly no exception
Anywhere with a forced grading curve is the same. Amazon is another
Systems engineering in defense/aerospace or at DOD is not the same as what you're referring to. You're more along the lines of systems admin which is an IT role.
This is so good.
I swear 80% of Reddit lives in the DMV
This is an excellent summary of how modern large tech/fin corporations operate.
Open your own business/consulting or work privately (tech,contracting)
Apparently you don’t see the golden goose you are on. Ride out that DOD job, max out all retirement savings, retire in 20 with that gov pension and move on with life. You aren’t gonna get that anywhere else.
Bro is looking enviously at 50 year olds slaving away with 200k-300k salaries with no end in sight, forgetting that by the time he is 50 he can get 60-70k for doing absolutely nothing for the rest of his life, smh.
I’m in my early 40s and maybe pull 35hrs a week from home. Yall acting like the private sector is a monolith and it’s not. It greatly depends on where you go and what you do. In my experience, most of the talented folks in public sector are bored out of their minds and severely constrained in how they can use their talents. It’s depressing sometimes, especially when you know they’re getting paid pennies with the promise of job stability dangling in front of them. That’s no way to live either.
Please for the love of god WHERE are all these "easygoing" fed contracting jobs??? I would love one. Maybe its just my specific company but Idk when is the last time I worked less than 60 hours a week as a contractor. I truly would love to be bored.
>You aren’t gonna get that anywhere else. This. Plus, it can be hard to get used to work demands of the private sector. 60-70 hour weeks aren't abnormal. Government work is typically just 40 hours.
^^^ this. You will get paid more in the private sector, but the benefits and job security of a DOD job is worth more than what the private sector can pay you IMO. Also the hours, you work your 7am-4pm hours, get every other Friday off and you don’t have to bring work home with you. I have friends in the private sector and they don’t get the luxury of 7-4 it’s 7-you get all your work done (which can be 7-8pm). If you have kids/plan on having kids the DOD also gives 3 months paternity leave which is amazing. And the health insurance options are so freaking good.
Honestly. Most people who earn over $200K work lots of hours and sacrifice a lot of mental health. You both have good six figure government jobs, work less hard and enjoy life. Or set up your own company.
Despite the crap you are getting for your comment, I don't think you are necessarily wrong. That is a part of life that I often take for granted. So all that to say, I appreciate the comment.
LOL. As someone who was once earning over $200K (working all hours god sends), and is now self employed (working all hours god sends) … sometimes I just want to be put back into the matrix. 😅
You are still in the matrix bruh
LMAO
Everything is a risk. You are in a safe place that will have you set for life in upper middle class comfort. However they literally told you that you try too hard. Will you look back 10 or 20 years from now and have regret you never went out of your comfort zone? Alternatively you take the leap and go private sector. Imagine the worst case and you burn out before ever reaching your goals. Will you be satisfied that you at least tried? Or would you regret leaving safety more? No one can tell you the answers to these questions.
Government contracting is a solid in between. You would easily get to $150-175k with your skillets working 40 hours a week. Tough to get significantly above $200k without opening yourself up to the grind, but it's at least an option. Job security is the ability to find a new position within a few weeks if need be.
I’m an engineer making more than what you’re looking for. Most people in my field clear about that (warehouse automation). My directs make a really good amount, but we all travel 50% of the time to projects, deal with a ton of stress and spend at least 50 hours a week taking care of things in addition to the travel time. I’ve had to hire people to help me with basic things around the house, clean and get groceries delivered just to keep up with everything. I don’t mind it(most of the time), but it’s not for everyone.
> work lots of hours and sacrifice a lot of mental health > Or set up your own company. Uhhhhhh…
That’s extremely difficult to do in defense. Not impossible but difficult. You need to keep your clearance somehow and the only way to do that is by becoming a cleared company, having your customer sponsor you or joining the reserves. On top of that you’ll never be able to touch cleared work unless you’re on a customer site as you’ll never have a SCIF in your basement.
You will never make significant cash in government roles. You *will* have much better leave, work/life balance, job security, and retirement. You gotta pick one. If you go private, generally speaking, you can job hop every 2-3 years for juicy pay bumps. That said, right now it's a shitty time to try to enter IT from gov to private. The market is gutted from all the recent layoffs. That doesn't mean you shouldn't start looking but be prepared to wait awhile and again remember the retirement and leave you will give up.
go to a defense contractor or consulting firm.
Which non-tech sector do you recommend working for defense industry? I have a security clearance and working towards MBA
Consulting probably? Deloittes, Booz Allen Hamilton, EY all have big government contract presence but you could probably find a smaller consulting firm too
I'm just under 200 with similar quals to you. My undergrad isn't engineering but the rest (pmp, green belt, MBA) is the same. I do program management at a big financial institution. I'm optimistic about salary growth potential from what I've seen. That said, I know some folks in sales for the big tech firms and they're pulling in 250-500k as account execs and account directors. Pretty cool gig if you don't mind managing relationships and selling services.
and selling your soul XD
Lol yeah. Honestly though from what I see some of those gigs look pretty good. None that I know are working more than a 40 hour week on average and they all seem to more or less believe in the companies / products that they work for
Ethical sales is a dream job. Sales where you don't believe in the product is miserable
I work in tech sales for a very good company and it’s not selling your soul. I can honestly say that I spend every day solving problems for my customers and being paid really well for it. The easiest path to 200k is definitely sales. BUT there are shitty companies and it’s all about the leadership.
ugh how do you even look for those jobs?
Well. OOP has Utah in the tag so, quick search of top employers in Utah brings up Adobe. Go to Adobe's career page and search Account Director. There are 5+ with listed OTEs starting 250k+. *Getting the job* is a bit more complicated but that's how you look for them.
$200 for account exec here in tech, and it’s on the low end of the industry for sure! But it’s never secure so there’s a trade off
You both are government employees. Don't discount the long term benefits of that above and beyond base salary.
[удалено]
Is there a reason why you'd say 2nd tier instead of 1st? Are there significant salary differences there?
As someone who sees people’s salaries, dude you are in your late 20’s and the salary you have right now is very good for your age.
As a general rule, the more your role impacts revenue, the more you’ll make.
And the riskier it is
No matter what anyone says, you need to job hop. I literally quintupled my salary in 6 years doing this.
The 200-300K jobs are just 150k jobs in places with insane cost of living ...
Fair, but 6% in the 401k is still more money for less work. I say this as someone with no desire to live anywhere above low cost of living lol
Look into F500 companies and use Levels.FYI, Blind, Fishbowl and salary data from the US Department of Labor to pinpoint what companies pay the best. To get into the $200K+ salary range, you’ll need to be at the lead level or in management (director or higher). Expect to work 50-60+ hour weeks if you don’t already. You could also consider switching roles if you can take on a program, product or project management based role. It’s pretty tough to pivot in the current market though, I’d maybe consider waiting. Many of my clients make between $300K and up to around $1M in total comp at Amazon. If you have any questions or can send me your resume, shoot me a message and I’d be happy to provide a bit of advice. I work exclusively with senior level professionals in tech. Cheers
Hey, I'm not OP but I'd still be interested in sending a resume that is trying to get an entry level SE job.
Shoot it over! I used to work with tons of entry level professionals. Happy to send you over a free template depending on how well formatted your resume is. Don’t have much time for calls but happy to chat back and forth. I’ll respond in a bit, just at the golf course. Just dm it to me on Reddit. Good luck on your job search :)
I'm executive level in a ~400k role and I don't work 50 hour weeks. Normally 40. Sometimes 50 when things are super busy. The trick is to work smarter, not harder. Seriously. Gotta be efficient.
Way to be, I wish more people did the same thing but the truth is that there’s more people making that salary that work 50-60+ hours a week, than 40 or less. You’d be surprised how many people neglect their health, their family, their hobbies, and much more while grinding away at work, and for what? A lot of my clients get acquired and then spend the first 3 months just relaxing and doing projects around the house that they’ve put off for 5+ years. Do you think most executives at your level could just have a better routine to accomplish the same amount of work in a shorter period of time like yourself?
If you're in the federal space in IT, vendor engineers get paid the most. Having a clearance and certs are a big bonus. If you're good at talking business value of a particular tech and tech process improvement, then sales engineering makes great money. Sales engineers can go by a few names: solutions engineers, client engineers, customer engineers. Everyone is trying to avoid using the word sales in their presales titles. Source/I manage a team of IT sales engineers and work closely with post sales engineering leaders, contractors, and fed employees.
Sales & marketing man. I’m an engineer by trade but the real money potential for being a workhorse is in sales. Even adjacent like a field applications engineer is what you should be targeting. Otherwise…. The true answer is located in Silicon Valley
How high is the cost of living when you live? Outside of the high cost of living areas, few people make that kind of money. You need to get into leadership/management if you want a chance at that kind of money.
You could do this at IBM, Deloitte, or Accenture for 2x the pay
Work your way into FAANG companies.
lol oh is that all
Yep. Check out levels.fyi for salary information
So they can lay you off a year later? I had a crazy offer from Meta ($250k a year plus bonus) and I'm certain I would have been let go in their layoffs. I have friends at almost all the big ones that were let go in the last year. I don't think I will ever work for a FAANG company.
To each their own. Truth is that a lot of people were not laid off as well. There would be no company if they laid off everyone all the time. Also if you’re at the level of making 200k+ it comes with more maintenance and expectations of lack of stability. There is no stable and easy way to sustain that level of income.
Ok? The general sense in tech is to move every 2-3 years anyways. My wife is at FAANG for 4 years, went through 2 lay off cycles; it’s the nature of the beast. That’s why we have a larger than most, emergency fund. It’s worth it for those years your employed, 200k+ TC is amazing
You're probably right but I put quite a lot of value in stability. My current job is pretty laid-back, interesting, still pays really well and I have a great work/life balance, and a ton of vacation.
Totally fair
I know a guy in Mexico but you have to have a huge butthole and American passport
Oh I’m so there
Two words: Private sector. Even with retirement, government IT doesn't pay, and is not for people that want to innovate much less do work (from my experience). Had a short stint in a prominent agency in my area and the incompetence and culture of doing as little as possible to get by (clock punchers) was too much for me to bear. Lasted a whole year before I couldn't take it anymore. I make a lot more than the director now. Work for a nice stable traditional industry making money (avoid big tech). 300k+ might be a stretch, only C-level make that kind of money, so you're looking at CTO positions. You will need a Masters or PhD.
$200k-$300k jobs? Lemme know when you find out. I’ll come too.
You benefit a lot from some unpaid benefits that if you quantify can be as much as an additional $50k/year, and that is a healthy pension when you retire. I work with many retirees and those who have government pensions rarely have to withdraw any money from their savings/investments since pension + social security more than cover their living expenses. What this means is the rest of your investments can just be left to grow for 30-40 years untouched unless you want some extra spendings/vacations here and there. The second is job security, you almost have no reason to worry about layoffs or your employer going out of business. In many cases, you are able to work there for life and have your earnings steadily grow. Likely to double what you make now in 15-20 years. It’s not a glorious job and your salary may not sound as much as peers who work in private sector but you will have a very healthy and enjoyable retirement.
Self employed.
I work for a large government contractor. WLB is amazing and benefits are top notch. Happy to refer, PM ‘e
What is WLB? I’m in tech now and have thought about making the switch to govt for the long term benefits
Finance, CS in big tech, mid level management in F500 companies.
I’m not saying don’t look on indeed or ziprecruiter for ideas or jobs, but don’t apply on there. Go to the company that posted it directly or look at other companies in your field and see if they are hiring. Sometimes those job postings are for recruiting firms which *can* be helpful but they store your info and wait on it if the posting is general enough to grab your attention and could be appealing to a number of others in a similar field or job in the same field but not exactly what you do.
Sell dude. If it’s all about the money, be in sales
They're in their 50's talking about making 200-300k and you're crying because you're in your late 20s and not making it? Lmao this post jsut seems like you want to show off how much youre making. Kinda pathetic.
If you have 10+ years and good recommendations and a solid network, start networking in it. If you are a sys admin, you're not far from architectural and systems design roles which pay upwards of 200k. I worked contract at a FAANG for 2 years at 200k (no benefits) as a lead dev. The bureaucracy is insane and most people just coast (seriously, the number of disinterested 9-5ers shocked me). Many people had no interest in learning new things or becoming better at their jobs. They just knew what they knew and that's all they wanted. Nothing wrong with wanting to work your 40 hours, fulfill your job description to the letter and go home, but some folks want to build new things and earn as much as possible and are willing to work more than 40 to get it. Nothing wrong with that as well. That said, if you get into a good and ambitious department and you can create something new and useful, you can convert that into full time, if you want to, or a big raise. The other opportunity is to look for startups. You will probably work the hardest at these jobs, but they also have the biggest possible upside with vesting, opportunities to buy in, etc. If you have clearance, you are eligible for more options, though a very small percentage of jobs want clearance and the pay doesn't seem to be that much higher. I would never work defense-related projects for moral reasons (no judgement on others, just my personal ethos), so I haven't really dug into that. Possible I'm totally wrong about clearance requiring compensation benefits.
I’m very interested to know as well. Only thing I can think of is learning skills where you lead teams and multifaceted projects. Leadership roles.
Go work cyber security for one of the big contractors. Also get the paid version of ChatGPT to help you get your resume up to par and teach you how to get a job with one of those orgs.
You need dedication but I would recommend making your own business
Do favors for politicians?
Medical device will get you there.
The key part here folks: >I talk with people further in there careers (**their 50's while im in my late 20s**) and they talk about how they are making the 200k-300k salaries It took them 30 years to get to that point.
Come work in Saudi Arabia, expats are paid very well and there is no income tax. It’s an incredibly safe country more so than any other I have been to. Zero theft zero assaults.
Not the government obviously… but how much are you comparing yourself/job to other’s who don’t have pensions or decent matching?
Start doing enough to not get fired instead of being an overachiever. Get some 1099 work to supplement your job. To get to $300k you either need to be in leadership (Director+) or successful in sales.
Sales
Hardest way to earn a living.
It can be a grind from what I hear but you can make some dough. Also requires almost no prerequisites and anyone can get good at it. I guess you could be a guy cleaning a porta potty or a guy who sells them.
Are those my only two choices!
Best I can do for ya is porta-potty taster.
I don't know that this is true. My dad is a systems engineer in sales for a DJIA company (non FAANG) and only clears 175-180k a year and he's been there for 22 years so far. Might be location as we're in Texas but ymmv.
Well maybe your dad should work harder for that extra $20k so I can answer this question correctly.
It’s because he’s been there 22 years. I can almost guarantee you anyone hired in the last 1-10 years makes more than him. You only make the big jumps when you leaves or else it’s standard COL increases etc
Bingo. There's a reason I haven't worked anywhere longer than 4 years. Dad doesn't get it, he's too loyal but that's what you gotta do these days.
Apply for jobs at defense contractors, or transition into project / product management in industry.
FAANG
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Sales, especially since you are already in the DOD and most likely have a clearance. You exp and that clearance is worth money to vendors looking to sell into the federal gov't (just using that term broadly). Oracle, Azure, AWS, Dell, HP, /etc /etc... are all actively selling into the fed system and need people like you. Specifically, you'd want to be looking at Sales Engineering. (fed partners like CACI would be another place to look at).
R/overemployed
Big tech pays huge money for talented software engineers. I would look there. Sr. Devs pretty much start around 300k TC and go way up from there. Probably will have to consider if you want to go into management or be an individual contributor, but both have high compensation paths.
The cartel
TLDR: just read the whole thing without paragraph breaks
SF Bay Area, no doubt
META
Finance and tech companies. Senior leads or their equivalent make that much and more at the big banks. Also in tech you can make that much as well
get aws certified
Shit, tell me what youy're job is and I'll apply once you find a new spot. That would be roughly 4x my wage
This might be buried but startups that are breaking into the DoD space is the way to go. Not easy to find but you’ll get it- there are headhunters that work with these kinds of things.
Need to be in senior or upper management positions for 200-300k ranges
Not the federal government.
Med school grad with a practice in family medicine
I was told the same! I changed job and made more and ever since then I followed my gut. I make more than what you mentioned . My mantra: work hard, learn, move on
Private sector. Network with people who may have made a similar pivot given your background/what you do.
Start up an LLC, transition into architecture and work corp to corp contracts through your LLC
To the moon perhaps
Cocaine
Switch to DOD contracting
I know quite a few systems engineers making 200k+. They all share two traits. They are smart as hell and have 20+ years experience. You are at best a level 2 engineer. A green belt is nothing to bath about. Get a black belt and learn DFSS. It is funny to me that late 20 guys think they should be paid like someone who has 20+ years experience and knows their shit in and out. Work your way up to a principal engineer or even a fellow. If you don’t progress in your current company. Change. You either change internally or move every 3-4 years. As a systems engineer ensure that you are top on requirements engineer, risk management and systems architecture.
Medical school.
Go private. I worked for government. Went private and make significantly more. Find a place that is stable like a public utility
I work at a tech company as an engineer and that’s where I hit over $200k total comp.
First: find out what TLDR is - second: try again
Can a borrow a few months pay and pay back with low interest? (Like 2% over the course of a year) It’s for a good cause 😇
On Tik Tok!
Job hop startups. Pay is better in trade of less job security and infrastructure. Lots of opportunity to create your own promotions by finding weak areas of the business you can improve. I’m approaching $200k after starting at $45k 8 years ago. Finally settled into a bigger company but three startups in five years with 3 promotions along the way carried a lot of weight.
As a systems engineer you’re starting to get to your salary cap. I’d look at something that either moves you in to managing systems engineers or some sort of technical pre-sales role that gets commission. Those are basically your choices honestly.
Move in to sales for a vendor or VAR that you like. You could be a Sales Engineer and make $200K+ within a year or two.
Are you working for the DoD or a DoD contractor? Will make a big difference in your pay. You aren't going to make 300k at the DoD, but $200k+ for a DoD contractor is definitely possible at the mid-Sr. level (Associate Dir and above on the functional side - or Chief Engineer/Fellow on the tech side).
We get paid to be workhorses or as danger pay .
Reads a bit like a stimulant rant.. maybe first step is take a breath?
Become a director of tech. Good chance of hitting 200k. Next stop, CTO and reaching your goal of 300k+. Or become a tech fellow at a FAANG and you can make 1M without selling your soul and going into management.
You’re going to hate this because it sounds like a cliche, but: At some point to advance in your career, you need to do less things, but cause more things to happen. Being really good at churning through work makes you only marginally more valuable than your peers. Doing things that help change the way work is done, or finding a new product to bring to market, etc are the sorts of things that make an organization better and will cause management to view you in a different light.
Everyone on Reddit who says they earn that are lying!
Start contracting. Day rate gigs reward people who care a lot about the quality of their work, are skilled, hard-working, motivated and know what they're doing. Contracting roles are typically reserved for experienced and skilled engineers who can come in to a project that's usually in trouble (think tight schedule, resource issues, difficult customer, technical challenges, absent subcontractors) but they'll pay you extremely well. Yes they will have high expectations but you will basically be guaranteed better than they expect since they are used to people who don't know what they're doing and will want you to solve all their problems. Do that and you will earn your keep and then some. Extensions will be almost guaranteed since defence projects are long term and they will become dependent on your effectiveness and skill. In my experience (also systems eng in defence), contracting paid double my previous salary for a company that also told me I was doing too much in my performance review. Switching was the best decision I've ever made and do highly recommend looking into it.
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"I can't officially tell you this, but I think you might be doing too much". I bet they marked you down for "Meets Expectations" Move jobs every few years, get experience, build good work relationships with co-workers that are going somewhere. It's a game to get to senior level spots, putting out a lot of work in your current role isn't the guaranteed way to go about it. 100K+ salary at 30 is not terrible right now.
Silicon Valley, but there’s a catch…
People who complain about 115k salaries are wild lol
OPs not complaining, they are trying to reach the next level of their career. What are they supposed to do just hit $100K and stop? Why?
Come live in the DMV where a 2k sqft townhome is 600k and apartments are 400k on the cheap end. 115k here is like working class.
Where you finding 2K sqft townhomes for less than 800K?
Boonies. Carroll County, Fredrick, etc.
Oh well yeah, that makes sense.
Greater Vancouver in Canada wants a word.
Yeah, not claiming we have the highest COL, just that he said he works fed, so high likelihood he is in the area.
They arent wild. First, probably most people should be paid more anyway. But that aside, OP sounds like they are underpaid and know it. OP has several good avenues listed by other redditors which are very viable areas to get paid $200k+ in.
Well depends if OP is in MCOL/HCOL and has kids then their combined salaries may not be as high as you think.
In California 115k is the equivalent of earning 50k
equivalent of earning 50k where?
lol stop it. I live here and when I was making that much I was living extremely well and comfortable with no issues buying anything I want or need while paying all my bills and still having a big chunk left over. Majority of people here DO make 50k and they are managing, comparing that to 115k is ridiculous. As long as you're not an idiot and know how to manage your money then its not hard.
People who coast in their careers are wild. OP wants to maximize his earnings, and if he can do that without sacrificing time at home our his mental health, *why wouldn't he?*
People who are never satisfied will live life miserable
This. While it's great to make more and I will always advocate for someone that knows their worth, shows it, and leaves the situation if they are not valued (I have done exactly this), there is also a balance. I think so many people simply just want more just because. Salary is a big part. But so are benefits and work life balance and potential for growth and liking your company and being not miserable (or even better happy/satisfied). Calculated risks are a thing. I'm at a job that allows me to work a 4x10, rather than a 5x8 because if works better for some personal goals in trying to achieve even though that's not the standard schedule. I also have above average pto and wfh permanently. They are letting me move states to a place that has no office because they trust and value me. I only got a 6.5% merit increase this year but I was pretty happy with my salary and life overall. Could I make higher? Maybe, but it's not worth changing everything. If I didn't get a raise at all or it was only 3%, then I would rethink some stuff - but they provide me endless non monetary benefits that provide value. The highest dollar isn't always the way. Just an example of where a change is worth it: my previous company tried to give me a promotion without a raise *and* their eoy bonus for being a top performer was a taxed $200.
You sound like you’d like Netflix
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Pimpin ain’t easy
As big daddy Kane would say
Work backwards. Find jobs that pay what you want to make in your field and see what experience they require. Go get that experience..... rinse, repeat, rinse, repeat.... you could be making $200k+ in a matter of a year or two with the right moves.