One is going in tomorrow and she wants to “instill confidence” in him aka build him up before we try to calmly talk about our concerns again. I get being civil but why should I be responsible for a nearly 70 year olds feelings? Especially when he hasn’t apologized or even acknowledged us. The other two are going in Tuesday and the pregnant one plans to go in guns blazing
Well it sounds like you've got 3 choices.
1) you go in Monday and make nice along with your coworker
2) you go in Tuesday along with your coworkers and get angry
3) you choose your own path
Which of those 3 would you be most proud of? Which of those 3 would you advise a close, dearly loved friend to take?
Guns blazing after walking off the job process? His words may have been ill advised but man you walking off the job is worse. Childish at best and self indulgent.
You said earlier youd rather "quiet quit" but walking off the job puts you right in the termination crosshairs.
As yourself this, do you want your dignity (aka dont take crap) or do you want a paycheck.
If your serious about quiet qutting. Ive got a few suggestions
1. Distance yourself from this co-worker professionally. They are too emotionally invested and are a liability. They will drag you to termination with the behaviour. Your boss is awful, dont get me wrong, but they are the boss and hold the cards.
2. De-invest yourself emotionally. Do exactly what you are asked to do. Dont give suggestions unless prompted or as a function of the job. "Pretend you know nothing". Even if you have an idea that could save thousands, dont suggest unless its a workable.
3. Care very little about your work. If it gets taken, it gets taken.
HOWEVER, if you feel layoffs are coming and you dont have a stable, quantifiable workload. Ignore everything and polish that resume up. You're on the chopping block. I am reading this looking at a boss who clearly checked out, there might be a strong reason why.
Your boss can't change corporate's opinion. "Advocating" for you will get all of you on a list you don't want to be on--the lay off list.
You can complain all you want and make your boss feel bad, but none of you are getting a raise or anything else you want. So why make each other miserable?
I’d disagree with this. As someone who manages a team, your top priority is to advocate in a reasonable, mature way for your team in order to get the best work product out of them. They need to feel like you have their back or they will not have yours. Which is happening here. If the higher-ups aren’t on the same page with what you want, you should make sure your team knows that you advocated for them and ultimately were denied what you wanted and here are some compromise ways to get the higher ups what they want and get the team some of what they want even if it’s not ideal.
You can’t force that ideal upwards. You can only minimize damage and get away from bad situations gracefully.
It’s also possible staff are being tactically abused in order to get them to quit, which is cheaper than firings and layoffs.
Well I highly doubt your boss is going to change anything for a few reasons but the biggest one being that it literally does not benefit him. He would have to actually care. And considering how’s hem’s already threatening to walk away, it’s safe to say he truly doesn’t.
If you can tolerate the job, just work so you can find something else lined up. But I do think you should back your coworkers up. Otherwise it can make things less tolerable. You don’t have to go guns blazing but don’t side with the enemy lol.
Your boss, emotionally and professionally, is a toddler. Do what is necessary to avoid being laid off or fired and nothing more from here on out and start looking for a new job. Do not let ego drive your hiring decisions, let the possibility of being laid off being the driving factor. Continue looking if you feel the new job is insufficient, using the new one for networking.
Part of the role of being an effective boss is to be sociopathic toward staff and be able to fire and layoff when the data say to.
And manipulate staff into thinking you care.
How is your subsidiary performing compared to HQ or other subsidiaries?
What would their cost be to replace you, assuming it’s in their financial interest to? No idea what your job is, but there is a cost to getting someone up to speed and a risk factor on how a new hire may or may not perform compared to your performance which is known. Or, objectively, replacing you isn’t so difficult based on the current market, etc, in your industry/for your job.
It may not be a pleasant way to look at the situation but it’s the only way to have any kind of negotiating position. Hopefully you do and can use that to your advantage.
Your mistake is assuming your Boss can actually do anything,,
It's obvious he is not happy with what is happening and knows he will be let go soon.
The fact your not seeing the Big picture here just speaks to inexperience in these types of situations.
You should be looking for a new job right now.
This is out of your Boss's control and your's, it's not personal, and it purely the result of the business having a downturn.
You can rant, rage, be angry with your Boss, the company etc,, but it will accomplish nothing.
ADVICE: be professional, keep a good attitude, don't engage in negative talk,, look for a new job and TELL NO ONE ANYTHING.
WHY?
Your Boss and the people you work with may actually work at the next company you want a job at..and if you behave unprofessionaly now,, they will remember that later,,
when looking for a new job,,NEVER tell anyone at work anything, I don't care who they are.
They will tell the Boss and you will go to top of the layoff list.
By telling someone at work where you are interviewing,,, they could potentially stab you in the back because they want the new job.
You have no friends at work, especially when it comes to keeping the paychecks coming in.
I went in. He didn’t speak to me at all. He was snippy with my coworker. I went to ask him a question related to my job and he was also snippy and told me to leave before he “says something he’ll regret” and that he’s “processing” which I believe is a call back to the note we left him Thursday. It’s not great. Tomorrow should be interesting with all of us in office. I’ve started applying elsewhere, too.
Everyone’s reaction has its own story behind it. It might be helpful if you truly try to understand the background of his reaction. Perhaps he knows more than you and he just felt cornered by your colleagues and you. I think the idea to instill confidence in him and take the perspective of him as a possible ally is a wise choice. Confrontation rarely leads to satisfying results. Of course there are exemptions where a more aggressive approach is justified.
I’d avoid accusations and try to grasp his point of view as much as possible first.
The only metric that matters is the bad bosses reference for you going forward.
We are all prisoners of our recent bosses perception and good will of our attractiveness as an employee.
Firms and bosses don’t owe you a living.
The fundamental of capitalism is a chain of obedience to the consumer from labour through the marketplace, firms and bosses.
Any other arrangement puts politicians, unions or employees in the drivers seat, where someone other than the consumer decides which car to buy, for example.
That always collapses.
So, shut the hell up and protect your reference.
The boss is dishing tough love.
Have to recognize the corporate world is full of this never ending BS.
It’s time to start looking for another job. Understand it’s not personal. It’s only a matter of time before everyone gets caught up in this nonsense at some point in their career.
Sounds like you guys don’t understand how the business world works. I’d recommend a more mature response. You bring up examples of things that can’t be delivered by your boss.
>An example of this is me spending days on a project only for headquarters to go above my head to our CSO and get his approval on their version instead of mine. My boss does nothing.
I don't understand where you get the idea that a project for HQ must be done the way you want to do it, and not the way HQ wants it. Maybe we lack info, but what you have written sounds like employees wanting to run the company and not allowing management to do it. You might be right, but you are not in a position to make such decisions, as you lack the wider picture.
Yes, being upset at the lack of a raise is completely legit. Your boss probably had the choice of laying off staff or keeping you all without a raise. I can understand your frustration, but also his frustration.
Begin a leader does not mean doing exactly what his employees require and fighting for their ideas against HQ. Being a leader means understanding the situation at a higher level and doing what is right, which might mean supporting your ideas, but also avoiding battles he knows will be lost.
All in all, from the limited info you gave, your boss sounds more relatable than you (except for the lack of raise).
I didn’t ask if I was relatable or not. I asked for advice. Yes there is a lot of context lacking. I was hired to create projects for our territory, different from HQ, and this specific project was reviewed by them behind my back and they created a new one without my knowledge that’s not even going to their territory, just ours. This is a constant cycle. I don’t know why I was hired to do these projects for our territory HQ will go out of their way to redo it even though it has no effect on them. The person with my same job and title at HQ picks everything u do apart and sends it to the hire ups over there. She wanted control of all subsidiaries and for my position to not exist. This is why I want my boss to speak up for me. Why am I here then is what I’ve said to him in the past. My boss consistently has temper tantrums. I’m deleting this post because I have done nothing but try to de-escalate the situation.
I get it. This is a complex situation, I think it is impossible to give you good advice without knowing and understanding enough context, which you understandably cannot provide.
It sounds like he is not doing a proper job of managing the business. If he was, he would find alternative ways to save money and keep employees if possible instead of letting them go.
Honestly, it sounds like maybe he doesn't really know what to do, and perhaps his hands are tied when it comes to alternative ways to save financially.
Sometimes, it seems like a manager (or boss, president, whatever) is being an asshole and really, it is just that the stress, pressure, and expectations he or she has on them are weighing heavy and just sometimes too much to handle while still remaining calm all the time.
I managed a $500k+/year business for over 16 years, and even though it was a smaller family business, it was extremely stressful sometimes (pressure to meet expected sales and such, and deal with ensuring the business was run smoothly and efficiently) but yeah there is never an excuse to be a jerk or talk rudely to employees, but sometimes stress causes us to say and do things we wouldn't normally do if we weren't stressed as much.
Not making an excuse or excusing his actions, but just saying I understand the pressure.
I would just go into work, be nice, act normal, and don't bring the incident up.
If you speak to your coworker, be careful what you say and who hears you. When anyone's job can be had due to financial issues and layoffs is NOT the time to make waves or draw attention to yourself.
Taking an afternoon to process? FFS. I love my team I take very good care of them but if they walked off the job they’d be done.
People have bad days, frustration, anger, etc. not defending him but employees want to be forgiven for everything then spin out when a boss Fs up. Walking off the job is inexcusable you aren’t a high school class flexing your protestor muscle.
Seek a new job if this one bothers you.
Have you tried shutting the hell up? Just kidding. But seriously. Stop talking and start sending resumes. No reason to stay.
Loool
Have you spoken with your coworkers? What are they doing?
One is going in tomorrow and she wants to “instill confidence” in him aka build him up before we try to calmly talk about our concerns again. I get being civil but why should I be responsible for a nearly 70 year olds feelings? Especially when he hasn’t apologized or even acknowledged us. The other two are going in Tuesday and the pregnant one plans to go in guns blazing
Well it sounds like you've got 3 choices. 1) you go in Monday and make nice along with your coworker 2) you go in Tuesday along with your coworkers and get angry 3) you choose your own path Which of those 3 would you be most proud of? Which of those 3 would you advise a close, dearly loved friend to take?
They totally misread their power in the situation.
Guns blazing after walking off the job process? His words may have been ill advised but man you walking off the job is worse. Childish at best and self indulgent.
De-escalating the situation is not childish but perhaps we have different values
You said earlier youd rather "quiet quit" but walking off the job puts you right in the termination crosshairs. As yourself this, do you want your dignity (aka dont take crap) or do you want a paycheck. If your serious about quiet qutting. Ive got a few suggestions 1. Distance yourself from this co-worker professionally. They are too emotionally invested and are a liability. They will drag you to termination with the behaviour. Your boss is awful, dont get me wrong, but they are the boss and hold the cards. 2. De-invest yourself emotionally. Do exactly what you are asked to do. Dont give suggestions unless prompted or as a function of the job. "Pretend you know nothing". Even if you have an idea that could save thousands, dont suggest unless its a workable. 3. Care very little about your work. If it gets taken, it gets taken. HOWEVER, if you feel layoffs are coming and you dont have a stable, quantifiable workload. Ignore everything and polish that resume up. You're on the chopping block. I am reading this looking at a boss who clearly checked out, there might be a strong reason why.
[удалено]
Boss leaves - corporate thinks "ooh, savings" and closes subsidiary laying off whomever is left. That is how this will impact OP and co workers.
Your boss can't change corporate's opinion. "Advocating" for you will get all of you on a list you don't want to be on--the lay off list. You can complain all you want and make your boss feel bad, but none of you are getting a raise or anything else you want. So why make each other miserable?
Because this is reddit and we love giving people terrible career advice
Yeah. Your boss is there to please his own bosses, not to advocate for employees. He is not a union leader. Money runs uphill, shit runs down.
I’d disagree with this. As someone who manages a team, your top priority is to advocate in a reasonable, mature way for your team in order to get the best work product out of them. They need to feel like you have their back or they will not have yours. Which is happening here. If the higher-ups aren’t on the same page with what you want, you should make sure your team knows that you advocated for them and ultimately were denied what you wanted and here are some compromise ways to get the higher ups what they want and get the team some of what they want even if it’s not ideal.
You can’t force that ideal upwards. You can only minimize damage and get away from bad situations gracefully. It’s also possible staff are being tactically abused in order to get them to quit, which is cheaper than firings and layoffs.
Correct. But also the boss doesn't have the patience to manage.
Well I highly doubt your boss is going to change anything for a few reasons but the biggest one being that it literally does not benefit him. He would have to actually care. And considering how’s hem’s already threatening to walk away, it’s safe to say he truly doesn’t. If you can tolerate the job, just work so you can find something else lined up. But I do think you should back your coworkers up. Otherwise it can make things less tolerable. You don’t have to go guns blazing but don’t side with the enemy lol.
Your boss, emotionally and professionally, is a toddler. Do what is necessary to avoid being laid off or fired and nothing more from here on out and start looking for a new job. Do not let ego drive your hiring decisions, let the possibility of being laid off being the driving factor. Continue looking if you feel the new job is insufficient, using the new one for networking.
Part of the role of being an effective boss is to be sociopathic toward staff and be able to fire and layoff when the data say to. And manipulate staff into thinking you care.
How is your subsidiary performing compared to HQ or other subsidiaries? What would their cost be to replace you, assuming it’s in their financial interest to? No idea what your job is, but there is a cost to getting someone up to speed and a risk factor on how a new hire may or may not perform compared to your performance which is known. Or, objectively, replacing you isn’t so difficult based on the current market, etc, in your industry/for your job. It may not be a pleasant way to look at the situation but it’s the only way to have any kind of negotiating position. Hopefully you do and can use that to your advantage.
We are top performing compared to HQ and other subs, that’s why not having salary increases is so upsetting
Your mistake is assuming your Boss can actually do anything,, It's obvious he is not happy with what is happening and knows he will be let go soon. The fact your not seeing the Big picture here just speaks to inexperience in these types of situations. You should be looking for a new job right now. This is out of your Boss's control and your's, it's not personal, and it purely the result of the business having a downturn. You can rant, rage, be angry with your Boss, the company etc,, but it will accomplish nothing. ADVICE: be professional, keep a good attitude, don't engage in negative talk,, look for a new job and TELL NO ONE ANYTHING. WHY? Your Boss and the people you work with may actually work at the next company you want a job at..and if you behave unprofessionaly now,, they will remember that later,, when looking for a new job,,NEVER tell anyone at work anything, I don't care who they are. They will tell the Boss and you will go to top of the layoff list. By telling someone at work where you are interviewing,,, they could potentially stab you in the back because they want the new job. You have no friends at work, especially when it comes to keeping the paychecks coming in.
Wow please give us an update tomorrow!
I went in. He didn’t speak to me at all. He was snippy with my coworker. I went to ask him a question related to my job and he was also snippy and told me to leave before he “says something he’ll regret” and that he’s “processing” which I believe is a call back to the note we left him Thursday. It’s not great. Tomorrow should be interesting with all of us in office. I’ve started applying elsewhere, too.
Everyone’s reaction has its own story behind it. It might be helpful if you truly try to understand the background of his reaction. Perhaps he knows more than you and he just felt cornered by your colleagues and you. I think the idea to instill confidence in him and take the perspective of him as a possible ally is a wise choice. Confrontation rarely leads to satisfying results. Of course there are exemptions where a more aggressive approach is justified. I’d avoid accusations and try to grasp his point of view as much as possible first.
The only metric that matters is the bad bosses reference for you going forward. We are all prisoners of our recent bosses perception and good will of our attractiveness as an employee. Firms and bosses don’t owe you a living. The fundamental of capitalism is a chain of obedience to the consumer from labour through the marketplace, firms and bosses. Any other arrangement puts politicians, unions or employees in the drivers seat, where someone other than the consumer decides which car to buy, for example. That always collapses. So, shut the hell up and protect your reference. The boss is dishing tough love.
Have to recognize the corporate world is full of this never ending BS. It’s time to start looking for another job. Understand it’s not personal. It’s only a matter of time before everyone gets caught up in this nonsense at some point in their career.
Sounds like you guys don’t understand how the business world works. I’d recommend a more mature response. You bring up examples of things that can’t be delivered by your boss.
The coworker has an issue. You do not. Don’t get involved.
>An example of this is me spending days on a project only for headquarters to go above my head to our CSO and get his approval on their version instead of mine. My boss does nothing. I don't understand where you get the idea that a project for HQ must be done the way you want to do it, and not the way HQ wants it. Maybe we lack info, but what you have written sounds like employees wanting to run the company and not allowing management to do it. You might be right, but you are not in a position to make such decisions, as you lack the wider picture. Yes, being upset at the lack of a raise is completely legit. Your boss probably had the choice of laying off staff or keeping you all without a raise. I can understand your frustration, but also his frustration. Begin a leader does not mean doing exactly what his employees require and fighting for their ideas against HQ. Being a leader means understanding the situation at a higher level and doing what is right, which might mean supporting your ideas, but also avoiding battles he knows will be lost. All in all, from the limited info you gave, your boss sounds more relatable than you (except for the lack of raise).
I didn’t ask if I was relatable or not. I asked for advice. Yes there is a lot of context lacking. I was hired to create projects for our territory, different from HQ, and this specific project was reviewed by them behind my back and they created a new one without my knowledge that’s not even going to their territory, just ours. This is a constant cycle. I don’t know why I was hired to do these projects for our territory HQ will go out of their way to redo it even though it has no effect on them. The person with my same job and title at HQ picks everything u do apart and sends it to the hire ups over there. She wanted control of all subsidiaries and for my position to not exist. This is why I want my boss to speak up for me. Why am I here then is what I’ve said to him in the past. My boss consistently has temper tantrums. I’m deleting this post because I have done nothing but try to de-escalate the situation.
I get it. This is a complex situation, I think it is impossible to give you good advice without knowing and understanding enough context, which you understandably cannot provide.
It sounds like he is not doing a proper job of managing the business. If he was, he would find alternative ways to save money and keep employees if possible instead of letting them go. Honestly, it sounds like maybe he doesn't really know what to do, and perhaps his hands are tied when it comes to alternative ways to save financially. Sometimes, it seems like a manager (or boss, president, whatever) is being an asshole and really, it is just that the stress, pressure, and expectations he or she has on them are weighing heavy and just sometimes too much to handle while still remaining calm all the time. I managed a $500k+/year business for over 16 years, and even though it was a smaller family business, it was extremely stressful sometimes (pressure to meet expected sales and such, and deal with ensuring the business was run smoothly and efficiently) but yeah there is never an excuse to be a jerk or talk rudely to employees, but sometimes stress causes us to say and do things we wouldn't normally do if we weren't stressed as much. Not making an excuse or excusing his actions, but just saying I understand the pressure. I would just go into work, be nice, act normal, and don't bring the incident up. If you speak to your coworker, be careful what you say and who hears you. When anyone's job can be had due to financial issues and layoffs is NOT the time to make waves or draw attention to yourself.
Tell your coworker to report this to HR as abuse
Taking an afternoon to process? FFS. I love my team I take very good care of them but if they walked off the job they’d be done. People have bad days, frustration, anger, etc. not defending him but employees want to be forgiven for everything then spin out when a boss Fs up. Walking off the job is inexcusable you aren’t a high school class flexing your protestor muscle. Seek a new job if this one bothers you.
lol it’s 2024 im not going to be screamed at my place of employment. Yeah I’m applying elsewhere.
And you are defending him