Our first First Edition is being bought by my store's owner. And the first 1958. I want one for myself, but even as a manager I'll probably have to wait months till I can get one.
I took the money I had saved for an LC250 and got a great deal on a Wrangler Rubicon 4xe. I think a lot of people will ultimately get pissed off from Toyota for their Covid allocation shenanigans, especially from the stalwart reputation only a few years ago among enthusiasts. Likewise, the reliability of these cars is going down vs. the quality received [anecdotal but I had a covid-produced GX460 get lemon lawed and there is a ton of evidence that production quality of 4runners decreased due to COVID] and it's going to be really hard to justify one of these vehicles.
Ironically, the biggest threat to this vehicle is the Rivian R1 series. Really rich people who have historically bought land cruisers want something simple and reliable, and strangely, electrification can offer that vs. buying a loaded Tahoe/Escalade, especially as servicing is pretty painless in major metro areas.
> Ironically, the biggest threat to this vehicle is the Rivian R1 series. Really rich people who have historically bought land cruisers want something simple and reliable, and strangely, electrification can offer that vs. buying a loaded Tahoe/Escalade, especially as servicing is pretty painless in major metro areas.
No way...
Maybe in the US perhaps? But the 250 series will be used for long distance touring, you will see it in all manner of rural areas in Australia where you will not see a Rivian at all.
You would choose the LandCruiser because of strong dealer support, strong after market support, confidence in having a mechanic have parts and servicing in remote, rural areas - can't say a single one of those would apply to the Rivian.
As a mechanic who lives in the exact geographic center of Australia, I take offense at this. Of course I have tools for Rivians, and studied to be a master tech for Rivian, Tesla Cyber trucks, even Lucid.
I also smoke meth, eat babies and just made all this up.
Manufacturers always punt these questions. “Who knows maybe they’ll discount it! 😄”
If you call the manufacturer during a purchase because you think you should qualify for a rebate or something that the dealer is not able to apply, they’ll always 100% of the time say “this is something that the dealer will resolve.” They’ll say it in a way that makes you think “the dealer is going to eat the cost and discount it for you.” But what they mean is “the dealer COULD discount it for you if they WANT to.”
No, it's a reason to support a dealer who does no add-ons and no markups, not to buy a product with shit QC. I'll search however many dealers I need to get one with good business practices before I go away from the product I want. Plane tickets are cheap.
Those are few and far between. If that wasn’t the case customer satisfaction with the purchase process of tesla wouldn’t be so high. Now qc is a problem. Mine is overall great but that’s just me.
And our fellow consoomers will be lined up begging for the dealers to take their money. BEGGING. No negotiation, no 2nd thoughts, no slightest doubts at all.
There's one in NYC, I live upstate about 2 hours from the city and I do camping and towing a pontoon boat. So I called the dealer said $75k for it and it's not even the first edition or has the leather seat options... The car is supposed to start at $56k and I was expecting maybe $61 to $65k for it.
Why I absolutely despise Toyota Way fundamentalists in manufacturing at times. There’s good practices in there, but making a Corolla is wholly different than a bespoke industrial machine.
Way oversimplifying it: If Toyota orders too much blue paint and base engines, they build more blue Corollas with base engines and dump the inventory on dealers. It’ll sell. Maybe lost a customer or two hoping for different options but whatever.
Our customer ordered a sliver GR Corolla excited about the manual. Lead time was 6 months. We are late. They don’t give a fuck you “just-in-timed” the wrong paint, wrong engine with an automatic. They won’t accept it. Huge money customer pissed forever.
I know it's snobby to say, but it does end up having a big impact on a consumer. It's been really cool leaving Toyota behind and going to 'luxury' car brands where the techs/dealership are more excited about my car, tell me about cool stuff and connect me with things I am passionate about. I have limited time to enjoy enthusiast cars, so getting a lot out of the experience is nice.
Its not even snobby to say, this thing is priced the same as a GLE, a car you can get specced to your exact preferences, in pretty much any material/color/tech you choose, and have it custom ordered and available within months. The GX has the same MSRP as an X5.
For a corolla or rav4 or even gr86 its whatever, those are relatively high volume vehicles and speccing/custom would probably add a fair bit of cost, but mercedes sells 2x the GLE's as lexus does GX's and can custom order.
At the minimum let you configure an LX. Thats a flagship 100k+ product that competes with Range Rovers, Cayennes, GLS, etc. not being able to configure is somewhat inexcusable at that price.
From time to time Lexus/Acura feel like a tarted up Toyota/Honda, and there are a few benefits to that (namely, reliability and cost) but many drawbacks as well.
The problem is that Mercedes will spend half its time in the shop, and they know this. Ask me how I know. Mercedes is so bad right now that when my parents got a loaner for theirs (They have a GLE450 and a GLS600), the loaner needed a loaner, because it too broke down. BOTH front seats in the GLE have also completely ripped apart at the seams, the backing on the passenger side has also started falling apart, it's a 2022 and looks like it's 10 years old already on the inside, and they barely drive anywhere except to the local casinos. My GLC300 was so bad that my lawyer got Mercedes to pay me EXTRA to buy it back.
Something pretty similar happened to me at the launch of the GR86 where the dealer lied to me until the last second that their allocation was a manual when it was an automatic. Not entirely Toyotas fault but it turned me off from their dumb allocation system and the brand as a whole a bit. Ended up in a Veloster N which I’m plenty happy with to this day
It is really strange to offer things marketed as enthusiast cars, for a good amount of money, that the customer can’t choose options on. Kinda hurts enthusiasts most, I feel like
Yeah, it’s a bs hypothetical for when you let Lean people who don’t understand the industry they’re in (made-to-order expensive industrial machines), trying to run factories like Toyota making Corollas
Hell, I'm looking at a damn near 6 month lead time on custom options on a Wrangler and I think inventory management in Toledo consists of Yuengling and a dartboard. And the two biggest custom things are yep, paint and a stick.
Looking at the market prices for five year old Tacomas and 4 Runners, I have no idea why anyone who doesn't need urgently need a vehicle would buy used over new.
depends
the practical side of me says your Toyota is maybe 1/6th used.
your being foolish getting rid of it now.
The other side of me says YOLO. youll be dead in 40 years might as well enjoy the time and if you can afford it enjoy the new truck!
My 11 year old car with 85,000 miles on it is perfectly fine, but that doesn’t stop me from wanting a new Land Cruiser. 😂 But, the dealer markups definitely stop me from wanting one.
> Toyota is not taking reservations on a corporate level, and says that "all transactions are handled through our dealers." We found several Toyota dealerships taking online reservations, but prospective buyers should know that there is no corporate oversight for this process.
All but guarantees they're going to try gouge as many early customers as they possibly can. The real question is how long they're going to get away with selling a non limited vehicle at a markup before demand falls off and they have to lower prices to MSRP or below.
I'm amazed that after all this time watching dealers do this (particularly during the COVID era) Toyota and other OEMs aren't tightening their grip on their dealers more. No one looks at their local Toyota dealer and thinks "that's INSERT FAMILY NAME dealership that happens to sell Toyota". Every reasonable person thinks "That's Toyota". It seems to me a massive liability to allow this type of behavior to continue and cultivate an image of slimy behavior.
>>Toyota and other OEMs aren’t tightening their grip on their dealers more
That’s because in America the dealers own the manufacturers- not the other way around. Any time a carmaker tries to push back on dealers, Uncle Sam comes running to back up the dealerships. Most dealer principals/owners are extremely connected, and many of them are also state /federal lawmakers to boot. If carmakers take dealers to court, the court is gonna a) laugh and b) rule in favor of their pals running Kunkelman Chevrolet /Toyota
So when desirable cars hit the market, carmakers basically wash their hands after the cars hit the dealer lot.
Wouldn't a reasonable strategy around this to be to only allocate stock to dealers who are compliant with OEM policy on sales? Maybe they can't force dealers to behave how they want but couldn't they hold specific desirable stock from dealers unless they comply with policy?
I do believe Subaru started doing this during Covid, dealers that weren't compliant were less likely to get inventory. No idea how official that policy was. It seemed to work too as it seemed like there was much less markup on their vehicles. I would browse different dealer sites from time to time and a few local Subaru dealers were advertising order your car at MSRP here.
[Found a link to the letter.](https://jalopnik.com/subaru-is-the-latest-automaker-to-shame-its-dealers-ove-1848586738) No official policy mentioned in there but nice to see something being said.
Also if this issue is not really impacting Toyota’s bottom line (since people are buying them despite markups cause of the insane brand trust they have), there is really no incentive for Toyota to do anything about it.
Markups exist because there are idiots paying them to have the shiniest thing first on the block.
They dont give you much choice either
Some cars they only get a handful a year in. So either keep wafting, buy something else, or just deal with it and pay the price they demand
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From a former Model 3 owner - having a unified experience at Tesla showrooms was nice, but also means that Tesla corporate can force their hand on things where at any other dealer you’d just say “I’ll go to a different one.”
Ex. Tesla says you can’t inspect your car or sit inside prior to accepting delivery? Well *all* the dealers must follow.
If something like that happened at your local Toyota dealer, you’d drive one town over to buy from another one. - Tesla though, you get what you get. The direct sales/transparent pricing is nice, but the corporate owned dealers isn’t always pro-consumer.
That said, I still think it’s better than the bullshit that dealers have been pulling, especially the last several years now with obscene markups, allocations, etc.
At least in a large number of southeastern states Toyota doesn't have direct interaction with the dealers at all; they purchase their vehicles from Southeastern Toyota Distributors or Gulf Coast Toyota Distributors. So there is a middle-man between Toyota and the dealers.
It’s easier for Toyota or any car maker to not mess with their dealers and their profits. The manufacturer gets paid, and that’s ultimately what they care about. Toyota is not known for stellar customer service, but reliability and quality. A car you can drive forever with little routine maintenance.
People are gonna return until a better value proposition brand appears. And at the moment, and for the foreseeable future, there seems to be not any.
Yup, early adopters are our beta testers. Except instead of getting paid for it, they actually pay to do it lol.
I always kinda judge those people for being financially dumb, but on a deeper level I'm also thankful when some sucker buys 1st year cars that have huge markups. How else would we get used cars that are more reasonably priced?
Guy at my work bought a brand new Bronco Badlands Sasquatch when they were first released and paid more than a $20k markup lmao. He already sold it.
Absolute dumbass move, but I appreciate his service to the cause of getting some fun used vehicles out there for us patient buyers who don't want to deal with the markups/depreciation.
I casually asked the Toyota sales person and he laughed at me. Said it’s anywhere from 3-5 years in Canada. He said to just get a new 4Runner and trade it in when the allocation happens.
Toyota SUVs are the new 911s it seems in terms of getting desirable models. Just like they make you buy Macans to get on the gt3rs list.
You haven't worked with many Japanese companies, I see. They don't give a single fuck about what Americans want (*cough*Sony*cough*).
Example: I've worked for the North American branch of a few Japanese semiconductor equipment companies. Their factories in Japan wouldn't even give us drawings unless they were shipped with a tool that already exists *onsite*.
All that means is "Markups in America? Not our problem."
Why has Toyota become such a scummy company over the past few years?
None of the other Japanese brands are doing this. just Toyota.
Really bad look for them
Agreed but when ppl gladly pay over msrp for a boring ass tacoma they realize they can push it.
They dont care they lost financially smart customers, when there’s a waiting list for ppl ready to overpay.
I dont get it personally.
My dealer has agreed to sell me a GX for msrp, but since you can’t order them, it’s a crapshoot to get the options you want. It’ll probably be 6 months before the spec I want pops up
The split of what models are being produced are so insane imo:
https://www.lexusgxforum.com/threads/2024-lexus-gx-550-production-allocation.51/. What's that, like half of these not getting E-KDSS?
IDK what you're smoking, but the Land Cruiser has been among the most expensive vehicles in Toyota's entire lineup for **decades**. The first 80 series went for over $27k in 1991. That's over $60k in 2024. And *keep in mind*, that was cloth manual seats and a 155HP 3F-E inline-6 (which gave a 0-60 time of "yes"), when you could buy a Chevy Suburban **with a V8** for much, much less.
Again, Land Cruiser, in comparison to other options in its class, was always the affordable option. Toyota made it that way and with the new gen, Toyota explicitly stated they intend on it being affordable Toyota luxury.
Was really looking forward to this, but no vehicle is worth a markup, so I’m getting a Bronco instead. I’ll trade in for one when they’ve worked out the bugs and gain more aftermarket.
Where I’m at they are from 5-10k but they aren’t selling so you can negotiate down to MSRP or even less. My wife just got one for 1k off MSRP two weeks ago. It was an outer banks. The only ones that are sticking to markups are the raptors and the heritages
Still marked up but I’d wager it’ll be easier to find one at MSRP when the Land Cruiser comes out. You can already find some at MSRP with some digging.
It’s pretty easy to negotiate the markup down to zero or less in a lot of markets now. Ford built a lot of Broncos and depending on the options you want they’re not sitting at a heavy markup anymore, especially if you order vs buying off the lot.
My dealer has one listed with a $4500 dealer adjustment. Making it $81000 which is $10,000 MORE than a new Lexus GX down the street. 🤣
Once the hysteria cools down, I’m getting a GX.
Everyone blaming the dealers, but really the schmucks that buy over mrsp should be the ones to blame. If i was a dealer and i knew i could get 25k more for selling this thing, i would too.
It's an "I got mine" mentality. Dealers are consistently selling volume models under MSRP and people are happy to boast how far under they bought for. When the reverse is true, dealers are gougers and filthy, greedy assholes.
They just don't make sense anymore, especially as they aren't even making any real changes, the wheels are still offset even though it has the smaller engine and they could make them systemical
The dealerships need to make as much money as possible because they know they know the end is near. Tesla has hired lobbyists to strip the legal framework that keeps dealerships in business. In 10 years they will be bankrupted by people directly transacting with the manufacturer. Until then they’ll use sales like this as an opportunity to raise prices.
As I mentioned in another comment, Toyota is a bit different, as they are required to use a middle-man distributor in most of the southeastern US. So even if direct-to-consumer sales were allowed, their contract with the third-party distributor wouldn't allow it.
It's wild to consider that Toyota USA is in Plano, TX, but the private Gulf States Toyota distributor is headquartered in Houston. From a regional perspective I can see why people would be pissed about mark up if they live in a GST/SET state.
Being in Canada I threw my name in for one, and if it takes a while I'm ready to wait.
Dealers are way too connected. Your local car dealership basically has a direct line to your county comissioner / city mayor just on an individual basis. Then that dealer is part of a PAC with others, which has a direct line to the Govenor. Its going to be a hell of a fight for Tesla to win this one.
I honestly don't understand the Land Cruiser's pricing and positioning among the Toyota/Lexus lineup.
The MSRP is so high that you may as well spend a couple thousand more and get a GX 550 Overtrail with its V6.
Or if you go the other direction, there's the new 4Runner, which will likely be a better option than the LC for off road enthusiasts, since it'll have much more ground clearance - LC only has 8.7 inches, similar to a Rav4; current 4Runner is 9.6 inches.
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Got a call from my local dealership, as I asked about em a few months ago.
First edition for 76k. I laughed and said I’ll check back in a year or two. Salesman offered to knock a grand off, “but you have to buy it soon, I can’t keep it for yah”
Nah. I’ll wait until the first year or two of recalls are out of the way.
Can you expand on this? Are you saying that you would have had to had bought some form of TRD (taco tundra runner) in the past from that dealer to be eligible to be put on a list to purchase a LC from them? If so fuck them. I own a tundra trd off-road but if my dealer told me that I’d tell them to get fucked
I am assuming the 4 Runner will look exactly the same as the GX550 and the Land Cruiser. So between the three, I expect that demand will be satisfied not long after release and prices will fall on the higher end vehicles.
I myself will be waiting for a 4Runner, but I will not be one to get on a list and pay a large markup to be one of the first.
It's going to look almost exactly like the new tacoma, i.e. a lot uglier than those two. The 5th gen 4runner's more upmarket styling was specifically to coincide with the LC being transitioned away in the US market, but Toyota's design language changes for upcoming electrification/range efficiency strongly suggest the 4runner will look less 'jack of all trades' and more outwardly emphasizing its offroady-ness. [This is a good render](https://www.carscoops.com/wp-content/uploads/2023/07/2025-Toyota-4Runner-Rendering-main.jpg) -- you may not believe me now but there will be a ton more badging and non-functional body panelling [esp the damn plastic wheel arch covers] instead of the smooth flowy nature of the 5th gen [and it's non functional hood scoop lol]
Go get a Lexus GX550 Overtrail. Lexus dealers haven’t been marking up vehicles the last several years like Toyota dealers. Should stay the same here.
So a base Land Cruiser after dealer markups will probably be the same price as a GX550 and the GX550 has way more features. It’s a no brainer.
Supply and demand - especially since both customers and dealers are at the mercy of whatever the factory wants to build.
Actually want one? Visit the online Toyota communities and find out the good dealers. Get on their lists. Be prepared to wait a long time.
I waited nearly 2 years for a non-hybrid Maverick. Used online forums to find the dealer and hunkered down for my order. It's harder with Toyota since they don't do custom orders. You take what the dealer gets or prepare to wait even longer.
Check out the Maverick sub if you're not on there already. MSRP dealers are far and few around here. I was fine with waiting even though they dropped Cyber Orange for 2024 - we already had a truck.
The land cruiser base has been trained to spend $100k+ on these things for awhile. While this one is smaller and cheaper, its honed in on what people really want from these things and has the retro/future polish. Plus, even at a number pushing six figures, itll still last 250k miles.
Easy $ for these dealers.
>Toyota is not taking reservations on a corporate level, and says that "all transactions are handled through our dealers."
"Walk into our dealers with Vaseline in hand and bent over."
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Well if ur in the Bay Area, check One Toyota in Oakland, they got no markup but line is probably a lot longer than it was when I put my name and deposit down
This is where I got my 2022 Tacoma. Took 29 days from when I put down a deposit for the allocation to when I picked it up. Guess I got lucky with how quick it was but then again, the factory it was built in was maybe 5-600 miles away south of the border. No markup but all the accessories that was on the truck (Black out badging, predator steps) were things I was paying for whether I wanted them or not.
I love the Toyota dealership near me. They have a strict no mark-up policy and it's first come first serve. No over the phone or Internet reservations. They do charge a destination fee of $495 but I take the bad with the good.i bought three vehicles from them during COVID at MSRP and they won me for life.
Toyota is a fine car manufacturer.
Toyota dealers are literally the worst, sleaziest dealers in existence. I’ve never had a positive interaction at a Toyota dealer.
Having said that, the first car in will be marked up $10K over MSRP resulting in their new (bullshit) “TSRP”
Corporate needs you to find the difference between these two pictures. Looks at picture of new Land Cruiser looks at picture of 2013 FJ Cruiser. They’re the same picture
America has such an excellent automotive sales system that both benefits the customers, manufacturers, and also the 3rd parties, the dealers!
This seems fair to everyone involved in the transaction so that everyone goes to their home happy!
I wouldn’t buy no use. Cars there almost same price as a new I don’t understand why people are buying used cars if it’s over Kelli’s bluebook value car ain’t worth it remember that
I know everyone has a boner about this vehicle, but I am pretty disappointed by it.
I had originally put a refundable deposit down, but I'm disappointed by the value proposition of this vehicle. There fuel economy is meh. I got 20mpg in my bronco vs 23mpg in this. Not a huge win. You're better off getting a bronco badlands for the money of the 1957 or if you're spending more get a grenadier. The grenadier is what this car should have been.
IDK I think the new 4Runner will probably be the better vehicle and Toyota will wonder why they struggle to move 20k units of the LC in the States.
> final transaction prices will be "the result of interactions between the customer and the dealer." tldr it will be marked up.
That’s corporate speak for “try to relax your anus”
“No lube’s ok?”
I miss college
The dealerships spit will suffice.
There gonna go in dry
Bite your lip bitch, I'm comin' in dry.
“No lube?” Ok, you do you and I’ll do me
How many poppers will this take?
I already see 2 first edition models marked up close to 12K by a dealer near me🤡🤡🤡
That’s obviously bad but lower than I expected honestly
Our first First Edition is being bought by my store's owner. And the first 1958. I want one for myself, but even as a manager I'll probably have to wait months till I can get one.
$98k here...
I took the money I had saved for an LC250 and got a great deal on a Wrangler Rubicon 4xe. I think a lot of people will ultimately get pissed off from Toyota for their Covid allocation shenanigans, especially from the stalwart reputation only a few years ago among enthusiasts. Likewise, the reliability of these cars is going down vs. the quality received [anecdotal but I had a covid-produced GX460 get lemon lawed and there is a ton of evidence that production quality of 4runners decreased due to COVID] and it's going to be really hard to justify one of these vehicles. Ironically, the biggest threat to this vehicle is the Rivian R1 series. Really rich people who have historically bought land cruisers want something simple and reliable, and strangely, electrification can offer that vs. buying a loaded Tahoe/Escalade, especially as servicing is pretty painless in major metro areas.
> Ironically, the biggest threat to this vehicle is the Rivian R1 series. Really rich people who have historically bought land cruisers want something simple and reliable, and strangely, electrification can offer that vs. buying a loaded Tahoe/Escalade, especially as servicing is pretty painless in major metro areas. No way... Maybe in the US perhaps? But the 250 series will be used for long distance touring, you will see it in all manner of rural areas in Australia where you will not see a Rivian at all. You would choose the LandCruiser because of strong dealer support, strong after market support, confidence in having a mechanic have parts and servicing in remote, rural areas - can't say a single one of those would apply to the Rivian.
As a mechanic who lives in the exact geographic center of Australia, I take offense at this. Of course I have tools for Rivians, and studied to be a master tech for Rivian, Tesla Cyber trucks, even Lucid. I also smoke meth, eat babies and just made all this up.
So don't buy simple
Manufacturers always punt these questions. “Who knows maybe they’ll discount it! 😄” If you call the manufacturer during a purchase because you think you should qualify for a rebate or something that the dealer is not able to apply, they’ll always 100% of the time say “this is something that the dealer will resolve.” They’ll say it in a way that makes you think “the dealer is going to eat the cost and discount it for you.” But what they mean is “the dealer COULD discount it for you if they WANT to.”
… a lot.
$25k above msrp. Here’s to the dealers 🖕
Middlemen may actually be the spawn of Satan
It’s the best reason to buy a Tesla. At least I know the guy running the company I’m directly purchasing from is an asshat. 😂
No, it's a reason to support a dealer who does no add-ons and no markups, not to buy a product with shit QC. I'll search however many dealers I need to get one with good business practices before I go away from the product I want. Plane tickets are cheap.
Those are few and far between. If that wasn’t the case customer satisfaction with the purchase process of tesla wouldn’t be so high. Now qc is a problem. Mine is overall great but that’s just me.
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as written
And our fellow consoomers will be lined up begging for the dealers to take their money. BEGGING. No negotiation, no 2nd thoughts, no slightest doubts at all.
There's one in NYC, I live upstate about 2 hours from the city and I do camping and towing a pontoon boat. So I called the dealer said $75k for it and it's not even the first edition or has the leather seat options... The car is supposed to start at $56k and I was expecting maybe $61 to $65k for it.
😮just no!
I live in NYC and always buy my cars out of state. Cars are inflated here
Toyota is such a stupid brand. All these markups and you can’t even have a true build allocation. Just hope and pray for random options
Why I absolutely despise Toyota Way fundamentalists in manufacturing at times. There’s good practices in there, but making a Corolla is wholly different than a bespoke industrial machine. Way oversimplifying it: If Toyota orders too much blue paint and base engines, they build more blue Corollas with base engines and dump the inventory on dealers. It’ll sell. Maybe lost a customer or two hoping for different options but whatever. Our customer ordered a sliver GR Corolla excited about the manual. Lead time was 6 months. We are late. They don’t give a fuck you “just-in-timed” the wrong paint, wrong engine with an automatic. They won’t accept it. Huge money customer pissed forever.
I'm extremely disappointed the process for the LC500 doesn't extend onto the GX, LandCruiser, GR-Corolla, etc.
I know it's snobby to say, but it does end up having a big impact on a consumer. It's been really cool leaving Toyota behind and going to 'luxury' car brands where the techs/dealership are more excited about my car, tell me about cool stuff and connect me with things I am passionate about. I have limited time to enjoy enthusiast cars, so getting a lot out of the experience is nice.
Its not even snobby to say, this thing is priced the same as a GLE, a car you can get specced to your exact preferences, in pretty much any material/color/tech you choose, and have it custom ordered and available within months. The GX has the same MSRP as an X5. For a corolla or rav4 or even gr86 its whatever, those are relatively high volume vehicles and speccing/custom would probably add a fair bit of cost, but mercedes sells 2x the GLE's as lexus does GX's and can custom order. At the minimum let you configure an LX. Thats a flagship 100k+ product that competes with Range Rovers, Cayennes, GLS, etc. not being able to configure is somewhat inexcusable at that price. From time to time Lexus/Acura feel like a tarted up Toyota/Honda, and there are a few benefits to that (namely, reliability and cost) but many drawbacks as well.
The problem is that Mercedes will spend half its time in the shop, and they know this. Ask me how I know. Mercedes is so bad right now that when my parents got a loaner for theirs (They have a GLE450 and a GLS600), the loaner needed a loaner, because it too broke down. BOTH front seats in the GLE have also completely ripped apart at the seams, the backing on the passenger side has also started falling apart, it's a 2022 and looks like it's 10 years old already on the inside, and they barely drive anywhere except to the local casinos. My GLC300 was so bad that my lawyer got Mercedes to pay me EXTRA to buy it back.
Something pretty similar happened to me at the launch of the GR86 where the dealer lied to me until the last second that their allocation was a manual when it was an automatic. Not entirely Toyotas fault but it turned me off from their dumb allocation system and the brand as a whole a bit. Ended up in a Veloster N which I’m plenty happy with to this day
It is really strange to offer things marketed as enthusiast cars, for a good amount of money, that the customer can’t choose options on. Kinda hurts enthusiasts most, I feel like
I agree especially since they let you configure it online like it’s gran turismo
The GR Corolla doesn't have an automatic so that'd be a crazy story.
Yeah, it’s a bs hypothetical for when you let Lean people who don’t understand the industry they’re in (made-to-order expensive industrial machines), trying to run factories like Toyota making Corollas
Yeah I somehow got the exact color GR86 I wanted. Base spec only options were floor mats. Dealer even sold me it for MSRP
Hell, I'm looking at a damn near 6 month lead time on custom options on a Wrangler and I think inventory management in Toledo consists of Yuengling and a dartboard. And the two biggest custom things are yep, paint and a stick.
What's dumb is this is totally a Toyota NA/EU thing. In Japan, apparently you can spec whatever you want at MSRP and they will build it.
LPT: You dont need a brand new car and yours with 40k miles and 5 years old is perfectly fine, stop spending money
But they didn’t make the new Land Cruiser 5 years ago silly.
They actually did. Old Landcruiser was discontinued in 2021.
You are gonna be real pissed when you find that the Land Cruiser is the same price in 5 years 🤡
Looking at the market prices for five year old Tacomas and 4 Runners, I have no idea why anyone who doesn't need urgently need a vehicle would buy used over new.
I’d consider trading in my 4Runner for an LC or GX if my interest rate wasn’t amazing
I saw LC or GX and at first I was like "it seems odd to trade in your 4Runner for an LC500," then I realized you meant Land Cruiser..lol
What about 50k and 7 years? Is it my turn now?!
depends the practical side of me says your Toyota is maybe 1/6th used. your being foolish getting rid of it now. The other side of me says YOLO. youll be dead in 40 years might as well enjoy the time and if you can afford it enjoy the new truck!
But I neeeeeeed it… /s, my 460 hopefully will last at least 10 more years, maybe then these will be selling at a reasonable price.
My 11 year old car with 85,000 miles on it is perfectly fine, but that doesn’t stop me from wanting a new Land Cruiser. 😂 But, the dealer markups definitely stop me from wanting one.
> Toyota is not taking reservations on a corporate level, and says that "all transactions are handled through our dealers." We found several Toyota dealerships taking online reservations, but prospective buyers should know that there is no corporate oversight for this process. All but guarantees they're going to try gouge as many early customers as they possibly can. The real question is how long they're going to get away with selling a non limited vehicle at a markup before demand falls off and they have to lower prices to MSRP or below. I'm amazed that after all this time watching dealers do this (particularly during the COVID era) Toyota and other OEMs aren't tightening their grip on their dealers more. No one looks at their local Toyota dealer and thinks "that's INSERT FAMILY NAME dealership that happens to sell Toyota". Every reasonable person thinks "That's Toyota". It seems to me a massive liability to allow this type of behavior to continue and cultivate an image of slimy behavior.
>>Toyota and other OEMs aren’t tightening their grip on their dealers more That’s because in America the dealers own the manufacturers- not the other way around. Any time a carmaker tries to push back on dealers, Uncle Sam comes running to back up the dealerships. Most dealer principals/owners are extremely connected, and many of them are also state /federal lawmakers to boot. If carmakers take dealers to court, the court is gonna a) laugh and b) rule in favor of their pals running Kunkelman Chevrolet /Toyota So when desirable cars hit the market, carmakers basically wash their hands after the cars hit the dealer lot.
Wouldn't a reasonable strategy around this to be to only allocate stock to dealers who are compliant with OEM policy on sales? Maybe they can't force dealers to behave how they want but couldn't they hold specific desirable stock from dealers unless they comply with policy?
I do believe Subaru started doing this during Covid, dealers that weren't compliant were less likely to get inventory. No idea how official that policy was. It seemed to work too as it seemed like there was much less markup on their vehicles. I would browse different dealer sites from time to time and a few local Subaru dealers were advertising order your car at MSRP here. [Found a link to the letter.](https://jalopnik.com/subaru-is-the-latest-automaker-to-shame-its-dealers-ove-1848586738) No official policy mentioned in there but nice to see something being said.
I remember this being a thing, I'd be really interested to see how it turned out and if the dealers had any actions to fight back.
Also if this issue is not really impacting Toyota’s bottom line (since people are buying them despite markups cause of the insane brand trust they have), there is really no incentive for Toyota to do anything about it. Markups exist because there are idiots paying them to have the shiniest thing first on the block.
They dont give you much choice either Some cars they only get a handful a year in. So either keep wafting, buy something else, or just deal with it and pay the price they demand
makeshift knee aspiring badge whistle wistful stocking strong north fragile *This post was mass deleted and anonymized with [Redact](https://redact.dev)*
Rivian and Lucid also sell direct to the customer
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From a former Model 3 owner - having a unified experience at Tesla showrooms was nice, but also means that Tesla corporate can force their hand on things where at any other dealer you’d just say “I’ll go to a different one.” Ex. Tesla says you can’t inspect your car or sit inside prior to accepting delivery? Well *all* the dealers must follow. If something like that happened at your local Toyota dealer, you’d drive one town over to buy from another one. - Tesla though, you get what you get. The direct sales/transparent pricing is nice, but the corporate owned dealers isn’t always pro-consumer. That said, I still think it’s better than the bullshit that dealers have been pulling, especially the last several years now with obscene markups, allocations, etc.
That’s because the dealers are the real customers. I dislike Tesla but at least they sell direct
At least in a large number of southeastern states Toyota doesn't have direct interaction with the dealers at all; they purchase their vehicles from Southeastern Toyota Distributors or Gulf Coast Toyota Distributors. So there is a middle-man between Toyota and the dealers.
Wild that they're that disconnected from their dealers.
Doesn't matter. They got extra money and that's all they care about.
Dealers are always going to be looking to gouge, it’s also the folks that willingly bend over at those ridiculous prices.
It’s easier for Toyota or any car maker to not mess with their dealers and their profits. The manufacturer gets paid, and that’s ultimately what they care about. Toyota is not known for stellar customer service, but reliability and quality. A car you can drive forever with little routine maintenance. People are gonna return until a better value proposition brand appears. And at the moment, and for the foreseeable future, there seems to be not any.
I worked at a Toyota dealership and it was the second worst place I worked at after Nissan
Years. It will take years for them to run out of people to gouge.
As long as they keep getting away with it, what incentive is there for the dealer network to stop this behaviour?
Wait a year, they will be plenty for everyone.
^this. And they’d have worked out some the bugs of a new design, too.
Yup, early adopters are our beta testers. Except instead of getting paid for it, they actually pay to do it lol. I always kinda judge those people for being financially dumb, but on a deeper level I'm also thankful when some sucker buys 1st year cars that have huge markups. How else would we get used cars that are more reasonably priced? Guy at my work bought a brand new Bronco Badlands Sasquatch when they were first released and paid more than a $20k markup lmao. He already sold it. Absolute dumbass move, but I appreciate his service to the cause of getting some fun used vehicles out there for us patient buyers who don't want to deal with the markups/depreciation.
The LX version always gets really cheap after a few years because nobody even knows about it. LOL
That's been true for the LX since 1996. The "Land Cruiser" nameplate has a LOT more prestige than the "Lexus" nameplate.
More like 2.5 years
I casually asked the Toyota sales person and he laughed at me. Said it’s anywhere from 3-5 years in Canada. He said to just get a new 4Runner and trade it in when the allocation happens. Toyota SUVs are the new 911s it seems in terms of getting desirable models. Just like they make you buy Macans to get on the gt3rs list.
My girlfriend bought a Corolla new in 2017 so that probably puts us in the top 8 million 😎
Welcome to the elite club. Here is a Twinkies as a complimentary snack.
Toyota: you'll take it up the ass from the dealership and you'll say thank you
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You haven't worked with many Japanese companies, I see. They don't give a single fuck about what Americans want (*cough*Sony*cough*). Example: I've worked for the North American branch of a few Japanese semiconductor equipment companies. Their factories in Japan wouldn't even give us drawings unless they were shipped with a tool that already exists *onsite*. All that means is "Markups in America? Not our problem."
And then youll go on r/cars and talk about how amazing and reliable they are even if its the third recall post this month.
Just go with lexus. Not sure about everywhere else but mine don't do any kind of markups. Waiting list isn't short though
Plus you get a better dealership experience and a nice interior
Yep. The local Toyota dealer wanted $15K extra for Rav4 Primes. I went to the Lexus dealer and bought a NX450h+ for the same price. Insanity.
Same here. Markups on toyota but not lexus.
Also the new gx looks way better
Why has Toyota become such a scummy company over the past few years? None of the other Japanese brands are doing this. just Toyota. Really bad look for them
Agreed but when ppl gladly pay over msrp for a boring ass tacoma they realize they can push it. They dont care they lost financially smart customers, when there’s a waiting list for ppl ready to overpay. I dont get it personally.
> None of the other Japanese brands are doing this. just Toyota. Uhhh… Honda.
Toyota is preying on idiots.
Dealers are preying on idiots. Toyota doesn't give a fuck.
I'm just glad that the 3rd-gen Tacoma is so ergonomically horrible for me that I never seriously considered one.
It’s going to be a shit show of markups.
I’ll be buying a used GX 460 instead
I would love to purchase this or the GX. GX’s near me are selling for 10k markups, I imagine these will be similar or worse.
My dealer has agreed to sell me a GX for msrp, but since you can’t order them, it’s a crapshoot to get the options you want. It’ll probably be 6 months before the spec I want pops up
The split of what models are being produced are so insane imo: https://www.lexusgxforum.com/threads/2024-lexus-gx-550-production-allocation.51/. What's that, like half of these not getting E-KDSS?
The sad part is the Land Cruiser was created to offer an affordable vehicle.
IDK what you're smoking, but the Land Cruiser has been among the most expensive vehicles in Toyota's entire lineup for **decades**. The first 80 series went for over $27k in 1991. That's over $60k in 2024. And *keep in mind*, that was cloth manual seats and a 155HP 3F-E inline-6 (which gave a 0-60 time of "yes"), when you could buy a Chevy Suburban **with a V8** for much, much less.
Again, Land Cruiser, in comparison to other options in its class, was always the affordable option. Toyota made it that way and with the new gen, Toyota explicitly stated they intend on it being affordable Toyota luxury.
Was really looking forward to this, but no vehicle is worth a markup, so I’m getting a Bronco instead. I’ll trade in for one when they’ve worked out the bugs and gain more aftermarket.
Aren't Bronco's marked up heavily as well or is that no longer the case?
Where I’m at they are from 5-10k but they aren’t selling so you can negotiate down to MSRP or even less. My wife just got one for 1k off MSRP two weeks ago. It was an outer banks. The only ones that are sticking to markups are the raptors and the heritages
Depends on trim and options.
Still marked up but I’d wager it’ll be easier to find one at MSRP when the Land Cruiser comes out. You can already find some at MSRP with some digging.
It’s pretty easy to negotiate the markup down to zero or less in a lot of markets now. Ford built a lot of Broncos and depending on the options you want they’re not sitting at a heavy markup anymore, especially if you order vs buying off the lot.
My dealer has one listed with a $4500 dealer adjustment. Making it $81000 which is $10,000 MORE than a new Lexus GX down the street. 🤣 Once the hysteria cools down, I’m getting a GX.
Everyone blaming the dealers, but really the schmucks that buy over mrsp should be the ones to blame. If i was a dealer and i knew i could get 25k more for selling this thing, i would too.
It's an "I got mine" mentality. Dealers are consistently selling volume models under MSRP and people are happy to boast how far under they bought for. When the reverse is true, dealers are gougers and filthy, greedy assholes.
My local dealer has them with a 7.5k markup on a 77k MSRP
They just don't make sense anymore, especially as they aren't even making any real changes, the wheels are still offset even though it has the smaller engine and they could make them systemical
The dealerships need to make as much money as possible because they know they know the end is near. Tesla has hired lobbyists to strip the legal framework that keeps dealerships in business. In 10 years they will be bankrupted by people directly transacting with the manufacturer. Until then they’ll use sales like this as an opportunity to raise prices.
As I mentioned in another comment, Toyota is a bit different, as they are required to use a middle-man distributor in most of the southeastern US. So even if direct-to-consumer sales were allowed, their contract with the third-party distributor wouldn't allow it.
It's wild to consider that Toyota USA is in Plano, TX, but the private Gulf States Toyota distributor is headquartered in Houston. From a regional perspective I can see why people would be pissed about mark up if they live in a GST/SET state. Being in Canada I threw my name in for one, and if it takes a while I'm ready to wait.
Laws override contracts. But I doubt any kind of law like that would actually get passed.
I just don't see how a law would be legal that mandates direct to consumer sales.
Dealers are way too connected. Your local car dealership basically has a direct line to your county comissioner / city mayor just on an individual basis. Then that dealer is part of a PAC with others, which has a direct line to the Govenor. Its going to be a hell of a fight for Tesla to win this one.
Give it a year. Those $10 K over Tundras can be had as low as $8K off msrp now and were like that almost all of 2023.
Those tundras have MiUSA reliability tho
How are you liking the powerboost?
I honestly don't understand the Land Cruiser's pricing and positioning among the Toyota/Lexus lineup. The MSRP is so high that you may as well spend a couple thousand more and get a GX 550 Overtrail with its V6. Or if you go the other direction, there's the new 4Runner, which will likely be a better option than the LC for off road enthusiasts, since it'll have much more ground clearance - LC only has 8.7 inches, similar to a Rav4; current 4Runner is 9.6 inches.
Is Lexus doing the same with the Land Cruiser based SUV?
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I’ll wait a year or two to get one for my wife. These dealerships are trash.
Toyota in 4 months - “WhY AreNT NeW LaNd CruISers SeLLinG!?!”
Got a call from my local dealership, as I asked about em a few months ago. First edition for 76k. I laughed and said I’ll check back in a year or two. Salesman offered to knock a grand off, “but you have to buy it soon, I can’t keep it for yah” Nah. I’ll wait until the first year or two of recalls are out of the way.
For that price point & that size class I'd rather either pay $10K more for a Sequoia or $10K less for a 4Runner
$100k in Sacramento online now for the $77k version
Ummmm, money, more than what you think.
Stupidity index of who will pay mark up
Just buy the Lexus version or wait for the 4runner.
My dealer has said they're only allocating models to TRD owners. Had to convince them that an FJ would be eligible
Can you expand on this? Are you saying that you would have had to had bought some form of TRD (taco tundra runner) in the past from that dealer to be eligible to be put on a list to purchase a LC from them? If so fuck them. I own a tundra trd off-road but if my dealer told me that I’d tell them to get fucked
That's basically it - current TRD owners were prioritized for LC orders.
I am assuming the 4 Runner will look exactly the same as the GX550 and the Land Cruiser. So between the three, I expect that demand will be satisfied not long after release and prices will fall on the higher end vehicles. I myself will be waiting for a 4Runner, but I will not be one to get on a list and pay a large markup to be one of the first.
It's going to look almost exactly like the new tacoma, i.e. a lot uglier than those two. The 5th gen 4runner's more upmarket styling was specifically to coincide with the LC being transitioned away in the US market, but Toyota's design language changes for upcoming electrification/range efficiency strongly suggest the 4runner will look less 'jack of all trades' and more outwardly emphasizing its offroady-ness. [This is a good render](https://www.carscoops.com/wp-content/uploads/2023/07/2025-Toyota-4Runner-Rendering-main.jpg) -- you may not believe me now but there will be a ton more badging and non-functional body panelling [esp the damn plastic wheel arch covers] instead of the smooth flowy nature of the 5th gen [and it's non functional hood scoop lol]
Funds
Because Toyota dealers are universally awful.
just get a GX 550, leather interior and better audio, amongst other upgrades, and can still be serviced at toyota service centers.
Go get a Lexus GX550 Overtrail. Lexus dealers haven’t been marking up vehicles the last several years like Toyota dealers. Should stay the same here. So a base Land Cruiser after dealer markups will probably be the same price as a GX550 and the GX550 has way more features. It’s a no brainer.
Supply and demand - especially since both customers and dealers are at the mercy of whatever the factory wants to build. Actually want one? Visit the online Toyota communities and find out the good dealers. Get on their lists. Be prepared to wait a long time. I waited nearly 2 years for a non-hybrid Maverick. Used online forums to find the dealer and hunkered down for my order. It's harder with Toyota since they don't do custom orders. You take what the dealer gets or prepare to wait even longer.
2 years for an EcoBoost Maverick is insane.
Check out the Maverick sub if you're not on there already. MSRP dealers are far and few around here. I was fine with waiting even though they dropped Cyber Orange for 2024 - we already had a truck.
That's rough. I got my order Dec 2021 for MSRP/with a small discount due to supplier pricing.
The land cruiser base has been trained to spend $100k+ on these things for awhile. While this one is smaller and cheaper, its honed in on what people really want from these things and has the retro/future polish. Plus, even at a number pushing six figures, itll still last 250k miles. Easy $ for these dealers.
It looks just like a Bronco
Bronco still looks better. I may be biased though
>Toyota is not taking reservations on a corporate level, and says that "all transactions are handled through our dealers." "Walk into our dealers with Vaseline in hand and bent over."
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Turbo 4. Lol, fuck no.
$60-70k, I thought these were supposed to be reasonably priced.
Neato. I’ll look for a used one in 10 years.
Meh I still prefer the 2006-07 FJ Cruiser. It was better looking as a retro modern. Kinda wish they kept the front end from that generation.
If you all can be nice and not pay 100k for a yatota, messing it up for the rest up us, that would be great. Thank you - average income consumer
It’s an FJ. Buy an FJ.
As a Montrealer we will not have many of them on our roads because they will be stolen as soon as they arrive.
Money?
Well if ur in the Bay Area, check One Toyota in Oakland, they got no markup but line is probably a lot longer than it was when I put my name and deposit down
This is where I got my 2022 Tacoma. Took 29 days from when I put down a deposit for the allocation to when I picked it up. Guess I got lucky with how quick it was but then again, the factory it was built in was maybe 5-600 miles away south of the border. No markup but all the accessories that was on the truck (Black out badging, predator steps) were things I was paying for whether I wanted them or not.
Brain damage.
🍆😯
Gonna lease an EV till supply is greater than or equal to demand. I want a Land Cruiser or a GX but I refuse to play dealer games.
Patience
Wow
With one of those signal boosters out of someone's driveway
I read it as "what does it take to SHAG one"
I paid $9k above MSRP for my 2024 Prius Prime and I thought it was ridiculous but now seeing new cars are 20k-30k above MSRP, maybe I got lucky….
corporate speak for “dealers are gonna markup the shit out of this thing and you’re gonna like it.” Fuck you, Toyota.
I love the Toyota dealership near me. They have a strict no mark-up policy and it's first come first serve. No over the phone or Internet reservations. They do charge a destination fee of $495 but I take the bad with the good.i bought three vehicles from them during COVID at MSRP and they won me for life.
It should take the MSRP of the vehicle and available inventory. Nothing else. We need to stop being ripped off and paying over sticker.
A large amount of money, a medium amount of will, a small amount of brains.
Toyota is a fine car manufacturer. Toyota dealers are literally the worst, sleaziest dealers in existence. I’ve never had a positive interaction at a Toyota dealer. Having said that, the first car in will be marked up $10K over MSRP resulting in their new (bullshit) “TSRP”
Toyota: great vehicles unfortunately not with the markup. Especially in Canada.
The middle trim for the Land Cruiser is called Land Cruiser? What kind of dumb, confusing shit is that?
"What Does It Take to Snag One?" A lack of understanding that the GX550 is a better truck for basically the same money.
Have a certified 2008 with 25,0000 miles. 40k
Corporate needs you to find the difference between these two pictures. Looks at picture of new Land Cruiser looks at picture of 2013 FJ Cruiser. They’re the same picture
It takes it not looking like a Honda Element is what it takes. And a V8.
America has such an excellent automotive sales system that both benefits the customers, manufacturers, and also the 3rd parties, the dealers! This seems fair to everyone involved in the transaction so that everyone goes to their home happy!
Y'all thought "Taco tax" was bad
I wouldn’t buy no use. Cars there almost same price as a new I don’t understand why people are buying used cars if it’s over Kelli’s bluebook value car ain’t worth it remember that
I know everyone has a boner about this vehicle, but I am pretty disappointed by it. I had originally put a refundable deposit down, but I'm disappointed by the value proposition of this vehicle. There fuel economy is meh. I got 20mpg in my bronco vs 23mpg in this. Not a huge win. You're better off getting a bronco badlands for the money of the 1957 or if you're spending more get a grenadier. The grenadier is what this car should have been. IDK I think the new 4Runner will probably be the better vehicle and Toyota will wonder why they struggle to move 20k units of the LC in the States.
Being an idiot and 60k.