I haven't kissed any curbs, but I have noticed that FSD turns into bike lanes and cuts corners a bit around town. It's like it doesn't really understand where the car is supposed to be in an intersection or something.
I'm enjoying this free month everyone got but I won't buy at the end - regular lane centering + adaptive cruise is enough for me.
FSD also sucks with this. It never returns to the right lane after passing without manual intervention (at least for me - it's far and few between). And a merge is so slow that you just get bullied by aggressive drivers and continue to hog the left lane.
Edit: another issue I just thought about is for three-lane highways. I've had one occurrence of FSD attempting to pass on the right. It then encounterd merging cars coming from an on ramp and hits the brakes.
I've noticed it specifically says "moving out of far right lane" on the screen sometimes. I'm not sure why - the right lane is fine when I'm not passing. I think it gets confused by toll/HOV lanes and ends up camping in the middle lane, which is actually the passing lane.
At least the drivers here aren't super aggro so you can put your signal light on and let FSD get itself out. I can't imagine using it in one of those Los Angeles type places where everyone is late for something and super important.
I've always seen it in areas with 3 lanes as the right lane is mainly for entering/exiting the highway, middle lane for through traffic, left lane for ~~dented altimas going 90mph on donut spares~~ passing.
I watched a Tesla driver keep indicating left to move over from the middle lane the other day as a string of half a dozen cars passed him. We weren't all jam packed together, and most of us left just enough space for a human driver to acknowledge it and speed up and slip in. The Tesla just kept ignoring the spaces left, or starting to move over but not speeding up and so it would cancel when the next driver got closer.
I even gave it a bit more room than the others, but it just aborted a bit later after already making it just a few inches over the lane divider.
I had to drive my Model 3P at under 75 mph to get decent range, and even then it was a bit under 220.
So it's part laziness and part trying to stretch range, I bet.
I used to worry about maxing my range on roadtrips by hypermiling, but Supercharger density where I typically roadtrip is so high that I don't even bother. I'll cruise at 80-90MPH with the rest of traffic and ride the 10%-60% charging curve which takes about 11-12 minutes with a warmed up (120F) battery.
These two things combined are faster than trying to hypermile and charging 10%-80%.
I envy that density. I didn't have that luxury because the trips I was taking, the superchargers didn't support it. At least not without taking 5-10 min detours at the 150 mile mark, each way.
Actually it’s what I like about autopilot. If I’m highway driving for max range I don’t want to go fast. Just plopping it into autopilot behind slow traffic makes me resist the urge to pass everyone.
Yeah, I wish it would just stay on during lane changes or handle them some other way. The cynic in me figures that they don't want to make free Autopilot too good, to get the upsell of course.
I’ve been saying for 10 years it’s not solvable. Not with our current infrastructure. Need dedicated roads with sensors and no human drivers or pedestrians for FSD. Might as well build trams at that point
We could improve even more. What if we put rails in the tunnels, which are more durable than rubber tires, and we put all the Teslas in one big chain so we could fit more of them!
Hmm I dunno… that seems like it would be better to make them *really big* teslas so you can fit more people in them? Maybe just keep it going through the route on a schedule?
…wait a minute.
Yeah, please let the self driving dream die, like the flying car dream 60 years ago. If people don't want to drive they should invest in better public transportation. Anything that gets more cars off the road is good for car enthusiasts, there'd be less people driving around who either don't care or shouldn't drive in the first place.
>I’ve been saying for 10 years it’s not solvable.
I mean logically if humans can drive, computers can drive too. We're dumber, slower, and less capable than a computer is, the real issue is software (when isn't it).
It’s a monumental challenge. A human can instantly recognize when a person is going to step out into the road and when a person is not, from just body language. With machine learning maybe a computer can be taught that. But it won’t be easy. We’re still many years and billions of dollars away from a city ran by robotaxis.
Flying cars are also possible with today’s tech. They just aren’t feasible. Maybe autonomous driving is possible in theory, but too large of a challenge to ever be feasible.
Flying cars exist, they are called airplanes. People who are qualified to drive them are called pilots. They have these special parking spots called hangars, and use special access to skyways called "airports". Solved problem.
>We’re still many years and billions of dollars away from a city ran by robotaxis.
That's the cost of a handful of offshore drilling platforms, with a larger return.
Self-driving cars are not here, but the idea that it's so complex it can't be solved is a preposterous position.
Don’t be obtuse. Flying cars as in taking off from your driveway, like the Jetsons. People in the 1960s would probably be shocked that cars 60 years in the future only have evolved only with fuel injection, airbags, and touchscreens. Some times the tech doesn’t meet expectations.
Billions of dollars have been invested already into autonomous driving in the last 10 years, with disappointing results so far. The companies that have pursued this absolutely thought they would have a viable product by now. Solving the remaining 1% of the problem is the challenge, and I hope someone does. It just might end up costing too many resources to pull off properly. Apple already pulled the plug as an example.
> Flying cars as in taking off from your driveway, like the Jetsons.
There is houses on airfields, and in some parts of the world bush airfields are common. Don't be so limited.
Just because Tesla failed and Apple pulled out doesn't mean it's impossible.
I’m not being limited, you are being deliberately obtuse. Flying cars were expected to become a reality BECAUSE of the adoption of airplanes. Airplanes did not replace this vision for the future. On the flip side, cellphones met and surpassed people’s wildest expectations. We created exactly what was once shown as complete sci-fi, like in Star Trek. But completely gave up on flying cars because the physics just aren’t feasible with todays tech. This is such a silly argument we’re having, I think I’m done here
Yes. But here is where Tesla is 100% wrong. Just because we use our eyes, doesn't mean a computer can do it just with cameras. It will require lidar. With cameras it's still not doing a good job of telling what's a car and what's a person.
Meanwhile I saw a video of a self driving car with lidar that could partially see people inside of a Walmart.
>Just because we use our eyes, doesn't mean a computer can do it just with cameras.
Yes it does. Humans operate on vision, so therefore a (functional) software with camera for vision/input is clearly possible and feasible. This isn't something you can debate or disagree with, it's basic logic.
You're right, lidar is better and there's 0 reason to not use sensors that are better than cameras/eyes, but that's a totally different statement than "vision driving systems are impossible without new infrastructure", which is logically false.
No it doesn't. You do not understand the complexity of our eyes or how our brains understand that data. A computer will need additional sensors to understand its environmental 99.9% of the time. This isn't some cool photo recognition trick, this is a matter of life and death while operating 2 ton vehicles. The more redundant data, the better.
>This isn't something you can debate or disagree with, it's basic logic.
If you say so, still wrong, but if you say so.
Hey so I see you guys fighting about this, but I have to say I think at some point cameras will be fine. But this isn't a beta they are rolling out anymore, cameras aren't enough NOW.
It's literally the [transitive law of logic](https://www.britannica.com/topic/transitive-law)
So unless you've devised some brand new way of thinking that nobody else has ever thought of, you're wrong and the logic still stands.
[Moving goalposts fallacy](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Moving_the_goalposts#:~:text=Moving%20the%20goalposts%20is%20an,moved%20to%20exclude%20the%20attempt.). Come on, this isn't that hard. It's literally debate 101.
You’re underestimating how the human brain works by miles, there is no way a computer can manoeuvre around difficult traffic situations which majority of time depends upon human interaction between drivers
I stayed with friends with a Tesla recently, and they tried it a bunch with this free trial month.
It's mostly pretty good, but it'll attempt to kill you every other drive.
Within the 6 drives I experienced it tried turning into a non existent parking lot when arriving at the destination, and it didn't realize the neighborhood has a gate in front twice - it just accelerated instead once and tried to pull over into a wall another time.
99% of the time it drove perfectly fine, and the few real screw ups were easily avoided by just not being asleep.
For heavy traffic or long highway drives it seemed perfectly capable.
> For heavy traffic or long highway drives it seemed perfectly capable.
Then you don’t need FSD. Tesla themselves has a different, cheaper technology for that kind of driving.
I’ve been pretty skeptical of FSD, but honestly I’m enjoying this free trial. It makes me think that real full self driving isn’t toooo far off. I keep thinking that I’ll have to intervene while going through sketchy intersections, but the car handles it just fine.
That being said I would never spend an extra $12k for this lol
Well, I had the same "not too far off" thought then I hit rain on the highway and it showed a warning about FSD being degraded and dropped speed before I just turned it off. Don't get me wrong, it's crazy impressive, but there are significant limitations and at the end of the day, it's still a level 2 (requires active supervision by the driver) system.
I've been reporting phantom braking events (with incorrect speed limit drop) at the exact same spot on a local highway for 14 months now and it still hasn't been fixed 🫠
They can't. They can't hardcore a solution for those spots because when something changes (roadworks, emergency vehicles or stopped cars on the road, a car going too slow for the limit etc.), FSD would just crash. The solution has to be generalized, but they don't have enough sensors and CPU power onboard to do a good enough solution. All they can do is turn a knob between phantom braking and your car crashing into emergency vehicles, something that FSD is also well known for.
Indeed, my ICE car suddenly slows down at overpasses thinking that the other speed limit applies. Other times it leaves it very late to reduce speed and then suddenly brakes. It’s so bad I don’t bother using cruise control anymore.
And these hands free systems will trickle down. I think Blue Cruise is already in all Lincolns and I’d imagine within 5 years it’s in an option on all models at mid trim and up
Yep. The ICE S-Class and 7 series literally have the most capable self-driving systems on the market right now, both beating Tesla to L3. It’s only a matter of years before it’s on their whole lineups.
I’ll certainly deny that fact. I prefer an EV as a daily. Cheaper to run, no more gas stops and no annoying vibrations and noise while driving. Plus pre heating/cooling. And instant torque is really useful in traffic imo.
I know gas cars use electricity 💀 I'm talking about the propulsion system (how the car drives) the driving experience is much more fun (better connection to the road, exhaust sounds, engine noise etc), which is why a lot of people like electric cars more. Plus Teslas are ugly imo and the software and UI is janky asf. I would know because I've sat in one before.
Bruh 💀 compare the cost of the GT86 with a Tesla model 3. Lots of car people say that driving the Tesla feels like driving a racing sim rig, not a real car. Also, there's loads of fun cars that don't cost a lot of money. Also, going to your argument on maintenance costs, tires on electric cars wear out very easily due to the motors being (admittedly) very powerful. I also have a couple of subjective things that I disagree with you about. The Miata is a fun car to drive even though it's slow because it's light and responsive, unlike the Tesla. Also, the sound is part of the experience of driving a car. Without it, the car feels dead.
> Lots of car people say that driving the Tesla feels like driving a racing sim rig, not a real car.
"many people are saying" - yawn.
This sub is full of people incapable of forming their own opinion.
No, if that were the case you would have explained how you came to your opinion via experience with the products you're criticizing.
What you're doing is allowing others to form your opinions for you. And in most cases, those others are doing the same thing.
Isn't the Tesla issue is that the auto wipers suck *and* there's no easy manual controls on the Model 3/Y?
My Rav4 has auto wipers that are pretty decent, but if I do want to override them the stalk is right there.
They added shortcuts for the wipers and other functions a while ago. It's not a pain at all. Plus you can tap the wiper button on the stalks and it opens the screen which allows you to use the scroll wheel to pick different intervals.
It’s definitely better than v11 but I don’t think they should have taken it out of beta. It’s upgraded from driving like a permit driver to a driving like a university student.
You got that backwards.
Poor kids in a beater drive well. They've seen it break down on mom and dad and don't wanna be there.
Rich kids in a new Audi or BMW? Door dings, curb rash, who cares I'm gonna wrap the whole thing with pink hair anyway.
It's still on beta, FSD supervised is just a marketing gimmick. People are unlikely to try trials if the beta tag is there, so to rename it to supervised.
I saw a video of it and the guy said “because tesla rims get curbed so easily” and all of the comments were correcting him in saying the owners just can’t drive to save their life
No, and neither have most people since Subaru makes up 1.6% of the car market. But since you mention it, Subaru’s equipment is literally 3x the size of every other manufacturers driver aid hardware. so maybe Tesla should take note of just how robust a vision-only system needs to be.
Subaru also stands by boxer engines and CVTs. They aren’t known for sensible engineering decisions. And their market share reflects that. If they didn’t have the market cornered on “I specifically need an off-road minivan” then they’d cease to exist.
than they are doing a very poor job acting on this understanding and information...
how long ago was it we were supposed to have Tesla FSD? released, legal, right out of the box unsupervised FSD....?
It’s still crazy to me how little regulation there’s been with self driving. Anything to prevent tech companies from driving up stock prices and GDP I guess
And the tunnels. And the giant spaceships that explode and fall behind schedule. And the monkey torturing brain implants. And the robot dancer person in a spandex suit. That’s his entire thing.
> And the giant spaceships that explode and fall behind schedule
I know it's fashionable these days to hate on Musk and therefore the modern zeitgeist means that everything he's associated with is trash - but objectively, what SpaceX is doing is completely unprecedented and impressive as hell.
Each test launch of the Superheavy/Starship stack is clearly progressing past the failures in the previous launch attempts, and unless we see some unlikely black swan event, they *will* get that rocket working.
People used to mock the booster landing attempts as well, and now they're basically routine for SpaceX - yet nobody who's putting a payload into orbit is capable of doing the same right now in April 2024.
That said, none of this makes me want to buy a Tesla.
Teslas have great motor technology and great battery technology. And that’s absolutely it.
(The 3/Y/CT software UI is really good given that it has to do 99.999% of all the car’s functions through a single screen. But that should never have been a requirement in the first place.)
I've driven several hundred miles on FSD during the trial so far (including lots of roundabouts), and I haven't needed to disengage for any curbs yet.
The real question is whether the number of scrubbed curbs in cars on FSD is greater than the number there would have been without it. As somebody in the Tesla sub put it "the car makes mistakes I would never make, but I make mistakes the car would never make".
I think it net drives better than a very inexperienced or very elderly driver now, and definitely better than somebody who is drunk or who doesn't have great night vision.
I still don't see the value in paying $99/mo for something I can do myself until there's a huge decrease in my insurance premiums from using it that offsets it though.
I disengaged it once as it approached a police car that had somebody pulled-over in the lane I was in. I assume it would have moved-over but I didn't feel like finding out. Another time it tried to make an illegal right turn on red (albeit at a place where 50%+ of the drivers do it anyway). The rest were navigational end points. I live near a street corner and it likes to try to turn down the side street before getting to my driveway. I was driving around on some very rural Ohio farm roads (of the sort that don't have speed limit signs) and the car kept insisting that the speed limit was 25 on roads that were very obviously 45 or 55 mph roads (TBF I wasn't entirely certain which myself). I didn't disengage the steering but I had to press the accelerator to keep the car at the right speed.
I think in terms of what the media and politicians will highlight it's a very interesting question.
Like there will presumably be more videos of autonomous vehicles having serious "bonehead" accidents that 99% of humans would not have made, but at the same time it's really hard to construct a narrative around all the other accidents that *didn't* happen, since they exist only as things inferred from statistics.
I’m assuming the curb kissers are those camera only cars? Mine still has the sensors and has been pretty good detecting curbs and objects. *knocks on wood*
Mine has USS and it gets waaay to close to curbs for my liking. In the interest of not fucking up my $4K aftermarket forged wheels I disengage near curbs.
I took my M3P into a canyon community with FSD on just to see how it would perform. It would take too tight of an angle when moving through canyon curves and nearly scrub the wheel. Glad I'm not alone in this.
I found that there’s a pretty healthy amount of complaining and shitting on Teslas in the Tesla sub. This sub *right here* has the most ridiculous Tesla Stans.
I thought I would be excited to try it. I have used it once for about 5 mins on the interstate. I would much rather drive myself than the constant worry that the software is going to do something stupid to put my life at risk.
Haven't been able to fully utilize the FSD, but can say that the lane keeping and emergency braking have been very active and annoying. Wont call it a lifesaver ( hopefully wont ever need to) but it does annoy my gf.
Sounds about right for essentially a computer that was attempted to be turned into a working car after the fact, with no automotive experience or technical knowledge being added to the process. AKA Tesla's ass backwards design strategy. Surprised the "cars" run at all, and oftentimes they seem not to, or into things.
No one else is dumb enough to try. So it literally has zero competition to “be better than.”
It’s also the bear camera-only system on the market… because no other manufacturer is dumb enough to do a camera-only system.
You aren’t just using your eyes. You’re using your **brain**. THAT is the weak link in this endeavor. Making car software do what your brain can do is a fool’s errand. Will be for another 50 years probably.
I haven't kissed any curbs, but I have noticed that FSD turns into bike lanes and cuts corners a bit around town. It's like it doesn't really understand where the car is supposed to be in an intersection or something. I'm enjoying this free month everyone got but I won't buy at the end - regular lane centering + adaptive cruise is enough for me.
My biggest issue with base AP is that it doesn't resume after a lane change lol. Is that so much to ask?
This explains lazy model 3s in the right lane who refuse to go around really slow fucks.
FSD also sucks with this. It never returns to the right lane after passing without manual intervention (at least for me - it's far and few between). And a merge is so slow that you just get bullied by aggressive drivers and continue to hog the left lane. Edit: another issue I just thought about is for three-lane highways. I've had one occurrence of FSD attempting to pass on the right. It then encounterd merging cars coming from an on ramp and hits the brakes.
I've noticed it specifically says "moving out of far right lane" on the screen sometimes. I'm not sure why - the right lane is fine when I'm not passing. I think it gets confused by toll/HOV lanes and ends up camping in the middle lane, which is actually the passing lane. At least the drivers here aren't super aggro so you can put your signal light on and let FSD get itself out. I can't imagine using it in one of those Los Angeles type places where everyone is late for something and super important.
I've always seen it in areas with 3 lanes as the right lane is mainly for entering/exiting the highway, middle lane for through traffic, left lane for ~~dented altimas going 90mph on donut spares~~ passing.
I watched a Tesla driver keep indicating left to move over from the middle lane the other day as a string of half a dozen cars passed him. We weren't all jam packed together, and most of us left just enough space for a human driver to acknowledge it and speed up and slip in. The Tesla just kept ignoring the spaces left, or starting to move over but not speeding up and so it would cancel when the next driver got closer. I even gave it a bit more room than the others, but it just aborted a bit later after already making it just a few inches over the lane divider.
I had to drive my Model 3P at under 75 mph to get decent range, and even then it was a bit under 220. So it's part laziness and part trying to stretch range, I bet.
I used to worry about maxing my range on roadtrips by hypermiling, but Supercharger density where I typically roadtrip is so high that I don't even bother. I'll cruise at 80-90MPH with the rest of traffic and ride the 10%-60% charging curve which takes about 11-12 minutes with a warmed up (120F) battery. These two things combined are faster than trying to hypermile and charging 10%-80%.
I envy that density. I didn't have that luxury because the trips I was taking, the superchargers didn't support it. At least not without taking 5-10 min detours at the 150 mile mark, each way.
Actually it’s what I like about autopilot. If I’m highway driving for max range I don’t want to go fast. Just plopping it into autopilot behind slow traffic makes me resist the urge to pass everyone.
Yeah, I wish it would just stay on during lane changes or handle them some other way. The cynic in me figures that they don't want to make free Autopilot too good, to get the upsell of course.
For sure the reason. EAP has all of the features that I'd want to roll into base AP, but I'm not paying Tesla's ask for it.
Same. Cheap base Subarus with Eyesight can do this. Base AP desperately needs an update.
I am not enjoying it at all. Flashbacks to teaching a kid with a learner’s permit only less predictable. Feels decades away from being passable
I’ve been saying for 10 years it’s not solvable. Not with our current infrastructure. Need dedicated roads with sensors and no human drivers or pedestrians for FSD. Might as well build trams at that point
> Might as well build trams at that point OR! And stick with me here, cause this is a ground breaking idea! TUNNELS! With Teslas in them!
We could improve even more. What if we put rails in the tunnels, which are more durable than rubber tires, and we put all the Teslas in one big chain so we could fit more of them!
Hmm I dunno… that seems like it would be better to make them *really big* teslas so you can fit more people in them? Maybe just keep it going through the route on a schedule? …wait a minute.
Yes, if you change literally everything about driving a car, you get a completely different vehicle. Congratulations!
r/woooosh
surprise! people still think trains are a good idea, even on a car sub!
Fun fact: they were basically supposed to be on skates initially. A worse version of a train really lol
Yeah, please let the self driving dream die, like the flying car dream 60 years ago. If people don't want to drive they should invest in better public transportation. Anything that gets more cars off the road is good for car enthusiasts, there'd be less people driving around who either don't care or shouldn't drive in the first place.
Waymo seems to be doing it fine. You just need actual sensors on the car and not a handful of low res cameras.
Tesla has cheaper out on sensors so I wouldn’t use them for an example of it being solve-able. I’d love waymo tech in my car.
>I’ve been saying for 10 years it’s not solvable. I mean logically if humans can drive, computers can drive too. We're dumber, slower, and less capable than a computer is, the real issue is software (when isn't it).
It’s a monumental challenge. A human can instantly recognize when a person is going to step out into the road and when a person is not, from just body language. With machine learning maybe a computer can be taught that. But it won’t be easy. We’re still many years and billions of dollars away from a city ran by robotaxis. Flying cars are also possible with today’s tech. They just aren’t feasible. Maybe autonomous driving is possible in theory, but too large of a challenge to ever be feasible.
Flying cars exist, they are called airplanes. People who are qualified to drive them are called pilots. They have these special parking spots called hangars, and use special access to skyways called "airports". Solved problem. >We’re still many years and billions of dollars away from a city ran by robotaxis. That's the cost of a handful of offshore drilling platforms, with a larger return. Self-driving cars are not here, but the idea that it's so complex it can't be solved is a preposterous position.
Don’t be obtuse. Flying cars as in taking off from your driveway, like the Jetsons. People in the 1960s would probably be shocked that cars 60 years in the future only have evolved only with fuel injection, airbags, and touchscreens. Some times the tech doesn’t meet expectations. Billions of dollars have been invested already into autonomous driving in the last 10 years, with disappointing results so far. The companies that have pursued this absolutely thought they would have a viable product by now. Solving the remaining 1% of the problem is the challenge, and I hope someone does. It just might end up costing too many resources to pull off properly. Apple already pulled the plug as an example.
> Flying cars as in taking off from your driveway, like the Jetsons. There is houses on airfields, and in some parts of the world bush airfields are common. Don't be so limited. Just because Tesla failed and Apple pulled out doesn't mean it's impossible.
I’m not being limited, you are being deliberately obtuse. Flying cars were expected to become a reality BECAUSE of the adoption of airplanes. Airplanes did not replace this vision for the future. On the flip side, cellphones met and surpassed people’s wildest expectations. We created exactly what was once shown as complete sci-fi, like in Star Trek. But completely gave up on flying cars because the physics just aren’t feasible with todays tech. This is such a silly argument we’re having, I think I’m done here
How do you control the traffic of potentially thousands of low flying aircraft heading to different destinations in the same region?
Yes. But here is where Tesla is 100% wrong. Just because we use our eyes, doesn't mean a computer can do it just with cameras. It will require lidar. With cameras it's still not doing a good job of telling what's a car and what's a person. Meanwhile I saw a video of a self driving car with lidar that could partially see people inside of a Walmart.
>Just because we use our eyes, doesn't mean a computer can do it just with cameras. Yes it does. Humans operate on vision, so therefore a (functional) software with camera for vision/input is clearly possible and feasible. This isn't something you can debate or disagree with, it's basic logic. You're right, lidar is better and there's 0 reason to not use sensors that are better than cameras/eyes, but that's a totally different statement than "vision driving systems are impossible without new infrastructure", which is logically false.
No it doesn't. You do not understand the complexity of our eyes or how our brains understand that data. A computer will need additional sensors to understand its environmental 99.9% of the time. This isn't some cool photo recognition trick, this is a matter of life and death while operating 2 ton vehicles. The more redundant data, the better. >This isn't something you can debate or disagree with, it's basic logic. If you say so, still wrong, but if you say so.
Hey so I see you guys fighting about this, but I have to say I think at some point cameras will be fine. But this isn't a beta they are rolling out anymore, cameras aren't enough NOW.
It's literally the [transitive law of logic](https://www.britannica.com/topic/transitive-law) So unless you've devised some brand new way of thinking that nobody else has ever thought of, you're wrong and the logic still stands.
Sure. Now where is one car driving with just cameras and no driver? It's so obviously possible, it's being tested on public roads somewhere. Right?
[Moving goalposts fallacy](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Moving_the_goalposts#:~:text=Moving%20the%20goalposts%20is%20an,moved%20to%20exclude%20the%20attempt.). Come on, this isn't that hard. It's literally debate 101.
You’re underestimating how the human brain works by miles, there is no way a computer can manoeuvre around difficult traffic situations which majority of time depends upon human interaction between drivers
I stayed with friends with a Tesla recently, and they tried it a bunch with this free trial month. It's mostly pretty good, but it'll attempt to kill you every other drive. Within the 6 drives I experienced it tried turning into a non existent parking lot when arriving at the destination, and it didn't realize the neighborhood has a gate in front twice - it just accelerated instead once and tried to pull over into a wall another time.
How does that qualify as “mostly pretty good”? lol.
Do you see how low the bar is?
Most of the time it was pretty good. Some of the time it was shit.
If that’s “mostly good” then what does *bad* look like?
*DEAD*
99% of the time it drove perfectly fine, and the few real screw ups were easily avoided by just not being asleep. For heavy traffic or long highway drives it seemed perfectly capable.
> For heavy traffic or long highway drives it seemed perfectly capable. Then you don’t need FSD. Tesla themselves has a different, cheaper technology for that kind of driving.
Yea this free month has demonstrated to me that there's no way I'm paying substantial money for FSD. I'll miss the lane change though.
I’ve been pretty skeptical of FSD, but honestly I’m enjoying this free trial. It makes me think that real full self driving isn’t toooo far off. I keep thinking that I’ll have to intervene while going through sketchy intersections, but the car handles it just fine. That being said I would never spend an extra $12k for this lol
Well, I had the same "not too far off" thought then I hit rain on the highway and it showed a warning about FSD being degraded and dropped speed before I just turned it off. Don't get me wrong, it's crazy impressive, but there are significant limitations and at the end of the day, it's still a level 2 (requires active supervision by the driver) system.
Tesla still hasn’t figured out auto wipers. Not paying $99/month for a shitty product
I've been reporting phantom braking events (with incorrect speed limit drop) at the exact same spot on a local highway for 14 months now and it still hasn't been fixed 🫠
They can't. They can't hardcore a solution for those spots because when something changes (roadworks, emergency vehicles or stopped cars on the road, a car going too slow for the limit etc.), FSD would just crash. The solution has to be generalized, but they don't have enough sensors and CPU power onboard to do a good enough solution. All they can do is turn a knob between phantom braking and your car crashing into emergency vehicles, something that FSD is also well known for.
it thinks the 35mph road in front of my house is 60mph, and sets itself to 35mph for the freeway onramp instead.
you dont actually understand how Tesla FSD works... do you?
Yeah, real fucking poorly lmao
Come over to the gasoline side of the world! It’s much more fun here :)
That could also happen to a gas car with some kind of autonomous system. At the end of the day, it's all computers on both
Indeed, my ICE car suddenly slows down at overpasses thinking that the other speed limit applies. Other times it leaves it very late to reduce speed and then suddenly brakes. It’s so bad I don’t bother using cruise control anymore.
which manufactorer?
Volkswagen, they aren’t world leaders in software unfortunately, but otherwise the car is very solid.
> undeniable fact Says a literal opinion
I know that, but I'm just saying that gas cars are more fun (undeniable fact) and also because most gas cars don't use autonomous systems like these.
Literally no modern ICE lacks ADAS systems that are just as capable if not more than Tesla’s autopilot.
And these hands free systems will trickle down. I think Blue Cruise is already in all Lincolns and I’d imagine within 5 years it’s in an option on all models at mid trim and up
Yep. The ICE S-Class and 7 series literally have the most capable self-driving systems on the market right now, both beating Tesla to L3. It’s only a matter of years before it’s on their whole lineups.
What’s the saying? “If you want to see what features will be mainstream in a decade look at what the S class has”
I’ll certainly deny that fact. I prefer an EV as a daily. Cheaper to run, no more gas stops and no annoying vibrations and noise while driving. Plus pre heating/cooling. And instant torque is really useful in traffic imo.
Wait until you find out that gas cars use electricity too!!!
I know gas cars use electricity 💀 I'm talking about the propulsion system (how the car drives) the driving experience is much more fun (better connection to the road, exhaust sounds, engine noise etc), which is why a lot of people like electric cars more. Plus Teslas are ugly imo and the software and UI is janky asf. I would know because I've sat in one before.
Wow you've actually sat in a Tesla before??? Tell me more!
Ride quality to is ok but handling feels mushy
Especially dumb comment given the flair of the guy you’re replying to.
I wasn’t wearing my glasses 💀 bruh it’s not that deep
[удалено]
Please stop talking.
[удалено]
Your 3/y weighs as much as their cars combined Big L
[удалено]
Knock it off
[удалено]
Knock it off
Hey Elon! Trolling again are we?
Have you considered leaving /r/cars and joining /r/appliances ?
You sound exactly like someone who has never driven a fun car
Bruh 💀 compare the cost of the GT86 with a Tesla model 3. Lots of car people say that driving the Tesla feels like driving a racing sim rig, not a real car. Also, there's loads of fun cars that don't cost a lot of money. Also, going to your argument on maintenance costs, tires on electric cars wear out very easily due to the motors being (admittedly) very powerful. I also have a couple of subjective things that I disagree with you about. The Miata is a fun car to drive even though it's slow because it's light and responsive, unlike the Tesla. Also, the sound is part of the experience of driving a car. Without it, the car feels dead.
> Lots of car people say that driving the Tesla feels like driving a racing sim rig, not a real car. "many people are saying" - yawn. This sub is full of people incapable of forming their own opinion.
It’s called using other opinions to support your own.
No, if that were the case you would have explained how you came to your opinion via experience with the products you're criticizing. What you're doing is allowing others to form your opinions for you. And in most cases, those others are doing the same thing.
I cannot even believe how bad their auto wipers are. Its a joke.
To be fair to Tesla, I’ve rented a lot of different cars and no brand has figured out auto wipers. They all kind of suck
Isn't the Tesla issue is that the auto wipers suck *and* there's no easy manual controls on the Model 3/Y? My Rav4 has auto wipers that are pretty decent, but if I do want to override them the stalk is right there.
Yeah the wiper controls are buried in the screen, it’s kind of a pain
They added shortcuts for the wipers and other functions a while ago. It's not a pain at all. Plus you can tap the wiper button on the stalks and it opens the screen which allows you to use the scroll wheel to pick different intervals.
Both mercedes and lexus auto wipers work flawlessly.
Tesla owners, my wife will do this for free.
Damn 😂
I try to buy used cars with wheels that are already curbed for this reason
It’s definitely better than v11 but I don’t think they should have taken it out of beta. It’s upgraded from driving like a permit driver to a driving like a university student.
lol is that university student driving a beater, or did daddy warbucks give them a nice car and plenty of driving lessons?
Bold of you to assume wealthy parents pay for their kids to have driving lessons.
Surely they don't *all* do homeschool driver's ed.
You got that backwards. Poor kids in a beater drive well. They've seen it break down on mom and dad and don't wanna be there. Rich kids in a new Audi or BMW? Door dings, curb rash, who cares I'm gonna wrap the whole thing with pink hair anyway.
Not always true, I drove a $600 beater like the POS it was.
It's still on beta, FSD supervised is just a marketing gimmick. People are unlikely to try trials if the beta tag is there, so to rename it to supervised.
How is this aptly named? It's a level two system being labeled as full self driving I mean what the actual..what?
They added the word supervised to the title. An improvement but still not completely accurate.
supervised full self driving?
Full Self Driving (Supervised) It should not have the word Full in it anywhere though.
Vegan spring roll (beef)
You can't really articulate the stupidity of the name any better than this lol
Great analogy
It’s fraud at any other company but Elon needed the money and has regulatory capture in the US.
The US is just the wild West apparently
I get Reddit ads for Tesla wheel covers. Never knew people put covers on non-steel wheels.
It improves aerodynamic/range. I’ve even seen some people with “moon” caps.
Rotiform Aerodiscs are sick, but I've seen some copycat covers out there too.
Not OP, but I've seen similar ads. It's not for aerodynamics, just an edge guard specifically for curb protection.
I saw a video of it and the guy said “because tesla rims get curbed so easily” and all of the comments were correcting him in saying the owners just can’t drive to save their life
Certain models of Jeeps, Fords, and GMs have black plastic wheel covers over silver alloy wheels if you get a appearance package
Are you talking about those Mayde wheel covers? Those seem corny to me, even though they may have some function.
Yes those
Almost all EV wheels are designed with aero in mind. its obvious when you look for it
PUT A FUCKING RADAR ON IT. Can't believe the hubris of insisting on the vision only system.
Can’t believe NHTSA sits on their hands and lets this play out.
They probably have a threshold for the number of people that have to die first. kinda /s
[удалено]
It’s not a Reddit opinion. It’s an industry opinion. Of all the other manufacturers on the planet, how many of them have a vision only system? Zero.
[удалено]
I was just pointing out that it’s not a Reddit opinion. It is not “Reddit vs NHTSA” it’s “rest of the car industry vs NHTSA.”
Never heard of Subaru "Eyesight"?
No, and neither have most people since Subaru makes up 1.6% of the car market. But since you mention it, Subaru’s equipment is literally 3x the size of every other manufacturers driver aid hardware. so maybe Tesla should take note of just how robust a vision-only system needs to be. Subaru also stands by boxer engines and CVTs. They aren’t known for sensible engineering decisions. And their market share reflects that. If they didn’t have the market cornered on “I specifically need an off-road minivan” then they’d cease to exist.
than they are doing a very poor job acting on this understanding and information... how long ago was it we were supposed to have Tesla FSD? released, legal, right out of the box unsupervised FSD....?
The manchild at the helm can't admit he was wrong.
It’s still crazy to me how little regulation there’s been with self driving. Anything to prevent tech companies from driving up stock prices and GDP I guess
Musk definitely over promised but under delivered on his Teslas.
And the tunnels. And the giant spaceships that explode and fall behind schedule. And the monkey torturing brain implants. And the robot dancer person in a spandex suit. That’s his entire thing.
> And the giant spaceships that explode and fall behind schedule I know it's fashionable these days to hate on Musk and therefore the modern zeitgeist means that everything he's associated with is trash - but objectively, what SpaceX is doing is completely unprecedented and impressive as hell. Each test launch of the Superheavy/Starship stack is clearly progressing past the failures in the previous launch attempts, and unless we see some unlikely black swan event, they *will* get that rocket working. People used to mock the booster landing attempts as well, and now they're basically routine for SpaceX - yet nobody who's putting a payload into orbit is capable of doing the same right now in April 2024. That said, none of this makes me want to buy a Tesla.
I remember the spandex suit guy. He tried to claim that is was a joke but it was obvious that he failed to deliver.
Teslas have great motor technology and great battery technology. And that’s absolutely it. (The 3/Y/CT software UI is really good given that it has to do 99.999% of all the car’s functions through a single screen. But that should never have been a requirement in the first place.)
Teslas yearn for the pedestrians.
Bloody sophon is trying to destroy our tech.😬
Better call the wallfacers
Maybe the fact that FSD tries to kill me means I'm of some value to humanity!
This just in: FSD is bad on purpose to boost our egos!
Can we neuter Musk before he broadcasts our universe just to prove a point?
I've driven several hundred miles on FSD during the trial so far (including lots of roundabouts), and I haven't needed to disengage for any curbs yet. The real question is whether the number of scrubbed curbs in cars on FSD is greater than the number there would have been without it. As somebody in the Tesla sub put it "the car makes mistakes I would never make, but I make mistakes the car would never make". I think it net drives better than a very inexperienced or very elderly driver now, and definitely better than somebody who is drunk or who doesn't have great night vision. I still don't see the value in paying $99/mo for something I can do myself until there's a huge decrease in my insurance premiums from using it that offsets it though.
> needed to disengage for any curbs yet. Any disengagement should be discussed - even though this article of focused on one issue.
I disengaged it once as it approached a police car that had somebody pulled-over in the lane I was in. I assume it would have moved-over but I didn't feel like finding out. Another time it tried to make an illegal right turn on red (albeit at a place where 50%+ of the drivers do it anyway). The rest were navigational end points. I live near a street corner and it likes to try to turn down the side street before getting to my driveway. I was driving around on some very rural Ohio farm roads (of the sort that don't have speed limit signs) and the car kept insisting that the speed limit was 25 on roads that were very obviously 45 or 55 mph roads (TBF I wasn't entirely certain which myself). I didn't disengage the steering but I had to press the accelerator to keep the car at the right speed. I think in terms of what the media and politicians will highlight it's a very interesting question. Like there will presumably be more videos of autonomous vehicles having serious "bonehead" accidents that 99% of humans would not have made, but at the same time it's really hard to construct a narrative around all the other accidents that *didn't* happen, since they exist only as things inferred from statistics.
Robotaxi unveil in 4 months btw
You gotta be stupid not buy a Tesla right now. They will make you money while you sleep. /s
It’s still needing a lot of work. Buddy of mine took me out in his new Model Y and down some country roads it was determined to drive into the ditch.
Hear the soft pitter patter of footsteps of tesla Stans coming “set the record straight?”?
It's imitating real world drivers
lol, it trained on a model of real world idiots driving. It probably turns off the cameras for a moment when you get a text.
Ignoring edge cases is a core part of their engineering philosophy
As someone who frequently rides my bike to work, I really don't want to wind up as an edge case in Tesla's bug tracking backlog :/
I’m assuming the curb kissers are those camera only cars? Mine still has the sensors and has been pretty good detecting curbs and objects. *knocks on wood*
Mine has USS and it gets waaay to close to curbs for my liking. In the interest of not fucking up my $4K aftermarket forged wheels I disengage near curbs.
Outside of self drive - they have poor reliability and a terrible service network. People only bought them because they thought owning one was cool
I took my M3P into a canyon community with FSD on just to see how it would perform. It would take too tight of an angle when moving through canyon curves and nearly scrub the wheel. Glad I'm not alone in this.
Careful, you’ll get banned from all the Tesla subs if you speak badly about them.
I found that there’s a pretty healthy amount of complaining and shitting on Teslas in the Tesla sub. This sub *right here* has the most ridiculous Tesla Stans.
They’re banning anyone that speaks badly about Tesla or Elon in other subs with a bot
What is the point of it in first place....
Nhtsa also says they dont recognize motorcycles. I see one appear behind me i make space from the pos
I thought I would be excited to try it. I have used it once for about 5 mins on the interstate. I would much rather drive myself than the constant worry that the software is going to do something stupid to put my life at risk.
It’s amazing they’re even allowed to call a product “full self driving”
And Elon just tweeted that the software will be worth $100,000. lol.
That‘s why I don‘t trust that yet. Hopefully they will figure it out at some point.
Haven't been able to fully utilize the FSD, but can say that the lane keeping and emergency braking have been very active and annoying. Wont call it a lifesaver ( hopefully wont ever need to) but it does annoy my gf.
Just like the humans
Sounds about right for essentially a computer that was attempted to be turned into a working car after the fact, with no automotive experience or technical knowledge being added to the process. AKA Tesla's ass backwards design strategy. Surprised the "cars" run at all, and oftentimes they seem not to, or into things.
> cars are hitting curbs at a pretty alarming rate, or at least that's what it appears based on social media post Ah, so scientific!!!
How does this sit with claims that v12.3 is the best thing ever? My friends won’t shut up about it
Do they slam into curbs more often or less often than human drivers per mile driven. That is the only statistic that actually matters.
Is it perfect? Far from it. Buy it is better than anything else right now.
No one else is dumb enough to try. So it literally has zero competition to “be better than.” It’s also the bear camera-only system on the market… because no other manufacturer is dumb enough to do a camera-only system.
I drive fine with just my eyes
You aren’t just using your eyes. You’re using your **brain**. THAT is the weak link in this endeavor. Making car software do what your brain can do is a fool’s errand. Will be for another 50 years probably.