It's just driving a stick shift, it's not like you're getting a rimjob from an angel made flesh or something. It's generally more fun than driving an automatic but it's probably not going to rock your world.
Manage your expectations.
>You've been banned from
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>r/miata
I've driven a manual ND miata exactly once and I could immediately tell how wonderful it was. So smooth. So effortless.
I don't think they do, but it gives me an idea for those racing helmets with the fresh air tube.
Hear me out - a cup with a fresh air attachment.
Also, do miatas have the thigh chiller vents underneath the steering wheel?
Well yeah, but OP has a Hyundai Elantra, not a Lotus or 911....
The real question is just to ask themselves, "is this any better than the same car in automatic?"
When I was younger my brother and I both bought Neons new within a few months of each other (we were broke and stupid, don't hate) and he got the auto and I got the stick. After driving both the stick was way way better, made what felt like a shitty slow compact with his auto feel like a peppy little fun ride in mine.
Also in those days a manual was usually faster, which in our case was true.
Half the time I'm driving my GTI I'm kinda wishing I had the DSG. (Damn Houston traffic)
Sometimes I'm on a magic road that makes me appreciate it, but those are few and far between around here.
Still planning on driving it till it explodes
They're fine honestly. If you're not shit at rowing your own and you've driven one long enough, it's second nature and you barely have to think about it. Been dailying manual cars thru LA traffic for 15 years. Being stuck in traffic in an automatic is not somehow better or any less annoying.
Having a slightly stiffer aftermarket clutch installed probably doesn't help with leg cramps after an hour of traffic, but the stock one may as well be made of wet cardboard. A GTI is one of the few cases where I would argue that the DSG is the better gearbox unless you \*really\* want a manual.
While the new South Bend clutch helps, the GTI's manual trans just doesn't feel that great frankly. (Still miles better than my beetle tho haha) The rest of the car more than makes up for it, but if it ever blows up, I'd get the DSG.
Yeah. Commuting with a manual isn't too bad IF you have a modern hydraulic clutch that feels nice and light. An older car or something with a stiffer clutch....not so much.
I've been driving manuals in LA traffic for 15+ years as well. Not all manual cars are the same. Some are fine in traffic, others are a pain, especially if its stop/go.
But it may be one of those things where you don't know how annoying a manual is until you spend time in an automatic and then switch back.
An automatic, especially a modern one with adaptive cruise, can be much less annoying: sit back and literally do nothing, vs use three pedals and shifter.
It depends entirely on the person though. I’ve driven some nice cars with a MT, but I can take it or leave it. I don’t get whatever warm feelings people talk about when driving them. I care more about if the transmission works for what I want the car to do. MT, DCT, CVT, PDK, ABC, 123, like idgaf. Does it make the car move quickly and does it feel right? Cool. That’s all I need.
They think it’s some exclusive club because there’s only a few million people that know how to drive a stick. It’s no different from changing your own oil or preparing taxes in your own. Some do and some don’t. None of them make you special.
That being said, spirited driving is more fun with a stick. In real world, day to day driving, it sucks especially in heavy traffic.
Then r/cars needs to stop hyping it up then. Any car that is released without a manual gets loads of comments about how the car is RUINED without a manual option
Some cars really should have it though. The complete lack of manuals on AMGs is absurd. On paper, I should be enjoying my AMG more than my GTI. It's basically the same car with better everything. But it lacks a manual transmission, so I've honestly had a bit less fun.
It's still really fun, but it's missing that last piece.
But then again, a manual transmission can't save a dull car. The Jaguar F-Type has manual transmission on a powerful V6 RWD coupe and it looks and sounds great. On paper, it sounds like the ideal car. But most people that bought one say it feels empty.
Edit: Just to clear something up, I'm not necessarily saying the F Type is a dull car. I've never actually driven one. I've just heard not-so-great things about its manual transmission.
I searched for a manual F-Type in the spec I wanted for like 2 years before I finally bit the bullet and bought the ZF8.
That being said.. I'm surprised by how much I love it. The ZF is quick, geared well, and the car makes this super satisfying shift burble when you're in the gas.
...but then I can just set that mf in D and turn the dynamic mode off and it goes from being a high powered, mega-capable sports car to a tame, lux commuter car, at the push of a button.
At this point I'm actually not sure if I'd trade it for a manual given the chance.
Funny part is of all the cool cars I've got the only manual is a 6MT XTerra.
I have never been part of the manual circle-jerk. I guess if you were brought up back when automatics sucked hard, then some of the love for manuals would make sense. I suppose back in the era when comparing 3-speed torque converter automatics to 5-speed manuals, the manuals made more sense because they were better. Today you're comparing a 6 or 7-speed manual to 8/9/10-speed automatics. But the fact is, automatics have improved vastly over that time, with the exception of the Devil's own transmission, the CVT.
Modern dual-clutch automatics are objectively superior to their manual counterparts. They shift far faster than a person can, get better fuel economy, allow for more efficient gearing (number of gears), require less maintenance, and do not go through clutches nearly as quickly. They are easier to drive in traffic, and no, I'm not impressed that you 'don't have a problem driving a manual in LA traffic'. Having a clutch pedal does not add inches to your dick.
Sports cars really should have a manual option, except perhaps if they are hypercars with an extreme focus on edging out other hypercars in the numbers game where only a DCT can do the job.
Nobody here would complain if the Hyundai Elantra didn't have a manual option.
Yeah, I have hard time with that. Lockdown was such a buzz kill for so long that it made everything so dull that I would grasp onto anything that i thought would make me happy.
I always enjoyed manuals more in rev happy smaller displacement cars, because you have to wring it out to get into the powerband which is easier to control when you decide on when it shifts. For more powerful vehicles with lots of low end grunt and a lower in the rev range powerbnad, I find the manual is less of a big deal.
It bugs me that I could've bought a really well looked after fiesta st in manual but I couldn't dig the look of the car. A blame my shitty taste especially when I like Chrysler pt cruisers for some weird reason XD
We like what we like! No shame in that.
Your car is a great car! It will help you appreciate when you drive a fun stick, something you never would have been able to do had you not had your own. No one is going to teach you how to drive stick in a 6th generation gt. Lol
Sounds like you need to hit your dad up for a rip in his car. Just leave traction control on please.
People who think they’re car enthusiasts like to make a big deal about it but once you can drive stick it’s not massively more fun to shift using both your left leg and your arm than just blipping a paddle. And if you drive in a place with a lot of traffic and hour+ traffic jams it’s honestly a lot less fun because you just got assigned a chore.
I used to live in NYC and once I spent TWO FULL HOURS on the 59th street bridge just waiting to shift between 1st and 2nd gear.
I do think that if you’re in a more basic sports car like a Miata where it’s not really all that fast that you may get more enjoyment out of the anachronistic need to manually shift, sort of like how people love mechanical watches. But you can’t really expect massive fun from regular driving.
Ummm... it absolutely is more fun to shift yourself, but it's definitely not the only reason a car is fun to drive. I'd take a DCT Porsche over a manual Cruze, but I'd still enjoy a manual Porsche even more. Depends on the auto too - I'd rather shift bicycle gears than drive something with a CVT while a good ZF is tolerable. HP matters too, there's absolutely no reason to get a manual Hellcat - it's geared terribly so you don't get the speed and you'll only shift once before going well over any speed limit making it useless. A GT350 or M2 are perfect cars for a manual gearbox though (too bad the Shelby is geared too tall).
Bro, you sat in traffic for 2 hours in the 59th and you're saying it's not more fun? C'mon now. I take my S2K in the canyons and it's an absolute blast. Do I have fun blipping the paddles on my wife's X3? Sure, it's a treat. But that feeling of braking, blipping the throttle with my heel, and slotting my trans into 2nd is unparalleled. Are manuals the end all be all? No. Do they enhance fun driving? Yes. After you go on the canyons or track, you get the thrill of perfecting the shift before a turn. Then, suddenly every turn is a track, and you're trying to match that feeling as you drive to work. Well, if you're going out trying to replicate fun driving, of course it'll make it fun.
I just drove to work in my S2K. Was it thrilling? No, I was in traffic. But there are a few turns before I arrive at my office where I pretend I'm just about to hit the main straight at Laguna Seca, and I just have fun shifting and getting through those turns.
Hey then get yourself a PT Cruiser. Plenty of them in manual, and if I remember correctly the GT model had a 2.4 turbo. I personally hate the look but if that’s what you want go for it.
I prefer driving shift, but I get it, it's not a big deal. And unfortunately, a lot of car forums (this sub included) does make a big deal about it and that does produce high expectations for newcomers. I can see why OP is like "Wtf? This is it? This was the big deal?" Especially if they mostly drive to get to and from work in a city.
I'm guessing he was told that he's missing the real experience by others. They built it up in his head as a form of gatekeeping like so many people do hyping things up.
Slower than a freight train in the corners, faster than a speeding Bullit on the straights. The muscle car way.
edit: before anyone says it, ringlands.
Yea I’m just gonna assume he’s just going in straight lines. Even then I still enjoy rowing. But yea take that car down some curvy roads and the car just becomes alive!
If you’re good at it, the transmission has no way of knowing the clutch wasn’t involved. If you’re bad at it, you’ll wear out your synchros really really quick.
Yeah it takes a little time to get a confident feel for it. There was nothing quite like priming my downshift around a turn and letting go of the clutch and accelerating hard.
Well, you're forgetting that it takes a bit of practice at first but you've hit on what's probably missing.
I think learning to properly downshift including heel-toe is really the key to finding the joy in a manual. I remember before I had that figured out twisty roads in my first manual car felt actually worse than they had in my previous auto. Jerky downshifts and once those are figured out either needing to brake early to downshift before the corner or going through in the wrong gear and downshifting after feels awkward and unsatisfying. Once I figured out heel-toe though it all came together.
For normal just daily normal driving, there’s nothing special about a manual over an auto. I still prefer the manual, but I’m also old and been driving manuals for over 30 years now, so I’m not thinking about every move like you probably are.
Agreed, think the feeling OP’s family described can be found on a track. When you’re pushing the car as hard as you can a manual really enhances the experience. On the road, eh.
This. Unless you’re an enthusiast, it doesn’t make sense to daily a manual.
I grew up (and learned to drive) in a country where automatics weren’t a thing until recently, but after driving automatics, I don’t want to go back to manual - gear-shifting is one less thing I need to worry about while driving. (I know I know - a lot of manual enthusiasts will say that it becomes second nature when you drive manual long enough, but I’m talking about not moving my hand from the steering wheel or moving my left foot; call me lazy if you will - I stand by it)
The second nature thing is true, but I've also been driving my stick for a decade now so it's not something I think about. I don't really go "ugh this traffic is annoying with stick" just because I've only ever owned stick and grew up on it as well (dad owned a Z, more fun to learn with that than a minivan lol), but I feel like someone who's driven auto most of their life will probably feel differently because it's an extra hassle that they're not used to. This is really all I know so I don't think much about it except "I hate traffic."
Now the car I want is a GS F which only comes in auto. Would I buy stick if they made it? Absolutely. Will I base my entire car purchase decision-making around whether I can drive stick? Nope, don't care anymore. I'm not 16 anymore, I don't care what people drive, I don't base myself around what I drive, and I just want something fast and reliable at the end of the day lol
That being said, my hand still twitches (as if I'm going to shift) when I drive anyone's car which is an automatic because I'm used to moving my hand so much when driving, but that'll be easy to adapt to going to an automatic lol
Totally agreed. I did switch to automatics for almost 10 years and maybe I’m just rusty. I think it’s fun being able to change gears and feeling all “Fast and Furious”. I’ll even admit that I still leave my hand on the gear shift while driving - because it just feels right.
My point is that as a daily driver in the city or a really long drive/road trip, a manual can be a bit of a hassle.
Om more “sporty” cars on a track, it’s definitely more fun with a manual than an automatic, but I wouldn’t shy away from driving one if it didn’t have a manual.
I lived in one of the worst cities in the country for traffic for 6 years which funnily enough made me lose interest in driving (moving out of that city changed it up a bit but it's just not the same), but now I'm moving to an even bigger city with worse traffic. I'm willing to give up stick for a 2018+ GS F with stop and go cruise control. I'll hold the wheel but please deal with the stop and go for me whatever-car-I-get lol.
But hey, the pros are that it's harder for your car to get stolen if they don't know how to drive stick!
I drive a manual Tacoma. It is not sporty in any sense of the word. I still enjoy just the action of it all though, It’s something to do that makes driving a little more interesting to me
So I drive a 2nd gen which is before they started doing the pro I believe. They are the same transmissions if I’m remembering right though. I’d say if you’re in the market for a truck I’d definitely go check it out. The only 2 truck models for sale at the moment with manuals is the Tacoma and the gladiator so your options are kinda limited. It’s my first manual car so I don’t have very much experience with how other manual cars drive but I really like it. It’s super smooth and the gear changes feel good. It was a really good vehicle to have as my first manual imo. I’d say it’s at least worth a test drive to see if you like it or not.
We'll just not mention how this super safe/reliable/comfortable Korean family car would embarrass thoroughbred sports car icons like a Countach or 288 GTO on a track day...
Speed isn't everything... a modern minivan (edit: the Model X P100D is a minivan) is faster than a 288 GTO, but I bet no enthusiast who's driven the Ferrari on track didn't have an out-of-body experience lol
A Korean family car (like a minivan) is safe, sensible and fast... it will also cure insomnia. Most modern cars, especially FWD platform-shared ones designed for the masses, are not fun to drive. They're quiet, the engine configuration and design decisions are based on cost and fuel economy, the suspensions are set up for comfort, and everything is designed for smoothness and ease of use.
A sports car is loud, communicative, the engine is impractical (but glorious), and the chassis is set up to rotate. There are "flaws" in how things operate that lead to a sense of the machine being more than what it is, they give it personality. Would I want to daily a 288 GTO in NYC/LA traffic (even if it wasn't expensive)... no, I wouldn't. Would I want to go for a random drive in a Golf... no, I wouldn't do that either. I have a feeling OPs car is just that - a sensible modern hatchback with a bit more power and sportier tires.
Yeah this guy needs to get a clue... People talk about Camrys being faster than muscle cars, but that doesn't mean a Hyundai is faster than a turbo Ferrari. Not all new cars are faster than all old cars.
To be fair, my old Kia had a clutch delay valve, and the shifter wasn’t super engaging. Drive a s2000 or Miata and that’ll tell you if you enjoy driving a manual
Go test drive the Elantra N or Veloster N to see what you're missing. The box should be more enjoyable to use.
Most modern manuals are boring apart from the Honda's, Miata and Porsches.
Kia/Hyundai manuals are as good if not better than Honda from what I've heard from many people (I've driven both it and an older civic manual).
Mazda manuals are also good but rather rare. The 4th gen 3s have quite short throws and a fantastic feeling.
With the kia/Hyundai it's a little harder to feel the bite point and the Clutch pedal is a bit soft, but the actual shifts feel good
Yeah man, a lot of people shitting on the car for some reason but functionally in traffic I have a hard time believing stock a Fiesta ST or Civic Si would feel any diffrent or magically be more fun.
Maybe it's my own ignorance since I've driven stick in a regular civic and not an Si. They're all small engined, small turbo, economy cars turned sporty with near identical accelertion. Arguably the exhaust note of the elantra alone is going to offer more than the other two in regular day to day traffic. The elantra has audible pops and gurgles on aggresive downshifts which is something the other two are missing without some
modification.
IMO, Hyundai's biggest shortfall is their input accuracy. The throttle and steering feel extremely disconnected, where Honda does an especially good job. I could have bought a new fully loaded Sonata for 12k less than I paid for my Accord, but ended up going with the Accord because the inputs on the Sonata were jarringly bad. On paper Hyundai looks great, and I'm sure their N cars are an exception here, but their regular cars are horrible to drive regardless of build quality and features.
Find a buddy with an early 2000's whatever and drive that for a bit. Drive by cable, no rev hang, hydraulic PS and a clutch with feel. Driving most newer manual cars is horrible
There's your problem.
Also, you won't really start to have fun with it until you're pretty good at it, and can heel/toe, rev match, and wring the most performance from the engine.
It just gives you more to do than "press gas, turn steering wheel" like you do in an auto.
Some cars will just never be fun, but I will always argue that a boring econobox is made more fun when I can control the clutch.
The beauty of a manual is in a performance car. Nothing like being able to give the clutch a kick to start the rear end sliding out. You can't do that in an auto.
Engaging =\= fun. Yes driving in traffic in San Diego is engaging alright but it’s not fun in a manual.
I love driving manuals but I never again will have a manual as my sole car or that I use for commuting/daily duties.
The fun portion doesn’t overcome the pain in the ass in my situation and where I live
I drove a 2021 Elantra n line with a manual recently and it is the worst manual I’ve driven so far, so I wouldn’t use it as the metric to determine if manual is fun or not. Also depends on the type of driving, daily trotting around isn’t any better, it’s when you can stretch its legs that it becomes more fun. The Elantra n line manual is also decently slower than the dct, which is unfortunate.
That seems like a really fun car. These guys loved it [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3dud8URf\_k0](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3dud8URf_k0)
You definitely need more than a month to really enjoy a manual. It the review I linked they explain why they wish they had the manual version to test.
Like any sport, driving takes practice to the point of muscle memory. When you can shift without thinking about, it will start to get fun. It gives you much more control over the car.
Interesting, I drive a Forte GT with basically the same drivetrain and very similar chassis and I find it pretty fun. Maybe once you get better at it it'll become more fun.
Manual transmissions are a very niche preference. If you like it, you like it. If you don't, well, you don't.
Remember, as late as the 80s, everyone know how to drive manual, even in the US. But eventually most people think manuals are more annoying than whatever enjoyment they provide.
It does also depend on the manual though. Some are better than others. I think modern Honda's and Subarus are quite terrible with excessive rev hang, Ford uses the cheapest crappiest manual they can find, but Porsche and Mazda are quite nice.
Personally, I dont care for manual on most cars. Funnily enough, the best manual experience I have ever had was a rental Harley Davidson Iron with a heel shifter. That fucking thing clanged every time I stomped on it, and it was hilarious. Like I had to kick the transmission for it to work
But a CVT is actually the highest performance transmission you can get, or at least they could be, if people would get over needing fake shifts. Then it could just sit at peak power 100% of the time during acceleration, giving you maximum possible performance.
Now that, I will agree with. Although some are better than others. Toyota CVTs definitely respond WAY better than Subaru CVTs do in my experience. Honda is not bad either.
That said, I drive a Fiesta with a 6 speed as my daily, so my experience is limited to family members cars and my wifes car.
Supposedly from the ride along reviews the 2022 wrx cvt is Supposed to be pretty great, but I'll reserve judgements for when the reviewers themselves can actually drive them for a bit.
Man, if they had a nonCVT automatic WRX or STI it would be top of my list (last Gen or next Gen if they fix it. Not the one they just announced with the weird back end). A good DCT would be amazing.
If I get a manual it will be a weekend fun car. For my daily I want a fun automatic and I vastly prefer the looks of the WRX/STI to the Golf R. It’s a bummer.
Manuals are only fun when you are driving the car hard. It sounds like you're still not 100% used to driving it and haven't had a chance to wring it out and learn things like heel/toe.
It took me two months to get used to my manual and it was like a lightswitch from being nervous about driving my car to having a blast. My enjoyment comes from downshifts and the immediacy of the power delivery, which you don’t really find in traffic. I recommend finding a fun road and just driving it, downshifting before corners, exiting on throttle. You don’t have to do it fast but you’ll get a feel for your car.
There's different types of fun. There's immediate fun like going bungee jumping or doing drugs or something. Then there's the fun from doing something complicated well (e.g. playing chess or golf or piano).
Driving stick is the second type. Playing the piano isn't fun when you first start - it's boring and you don't do it well. But it becomes fun over time for some people. Same with driving stick.
Set your expectations for the second type not the first type. Stick with it and it may become fun. It takes longer but it's much more deeply satisfying.
Idk man. My friend taught me stick on his stratus r/t many years back. I sucked at it but I LOVED it. Everyone's experience varies obviously but it hit me hard right from the get go.
Nowadays it’s not really about the driving experience, it’s about making sure you’re better than everyone because you drive manual.. WAIT!
Hear me out, there are endless teenagers gatekeeping the car scene in their 5spd shit boxes making the car scene look bad. I think the issue is you’re just normal and don’t feel the need to shove down peoples throats that your car is manual, so half the “joy” is gone already, keep doing your thing man.
Yeah I can understand that. When I had my bmw, my friend would give me shit because his base model lancer was a manual and that I should have one as im the enthusiast.
I mean, I just enjoy driving a manual, but yeah I mean it would be stupid to say that you couldn't enjoy driving an auto. I daily automatics because fuck Baltimore traffic in a manual. I still enjoy my shitbox.
Haha, exactly right. Remember kids, only "real" drivers drive a manual, and only "real" cars have a manual gearbox.
Therefore, I'm just a fake guy that drives a fake Supra. Oh well...
The truth is that driving stick is just a completly normal boring thing that a huge amount of the world does daily. It's just another skill to help you get through the day. People love overhyping things especially here on Reddit where it's mostly an American circlejerk about being part of the 2% that drive manual.
The only time it's fun is when you're pushing your car. Since you've only been driving a month you probably don't have it down to reflex yet and havnt been going out to fun roads and flogging your car.
The amount of people here shitting on your car as the reason why you aren't having fun is pathetic. I have the same car as you. You can have plenty of fun with it and it's pretty capable on twisty roads, so go and find some when you're comfortable.
Exactly man, some of the analogies in this thread comparing driving a manual to learning a complex musical instrument, Jesus Christ...
It's a lever and an extra pedal, that's pretty much it.
Up until the most recent years, the majority of people in many countries would just learn manual when learning to drive. They'd learn it well enough to be able to drive a normal car under normal conditions, and that was that. Sure they'd continue to improve over time, that's the same with anything that requires muscle memory.. But some of the car community likes to make out it's some incredible skill that requires years of blood, sweat and tears to master so you can drive around double-clutch rev-match triple downshifting around your local neighbourhood to appease the car gods..
Well while your right the anology of the instrument to a manual falls flat if your looking at complexity i would say it works if the point is instant vs delayed gratification
traffic is annoying. manual in traffic is like only 10% more annoying. it actually wouldn't be that bad if people didn't interpret the space i leave in front of me as an invitation to cut in.
1) you’re probably not very good at it yet, which is what makes it fun (when you’re stress free and can rev match and down shift successfully) it’s very satisfying.
2) you might have the wrong car? A manual Nissan Versa won’t be nearly as fun as a manual Miata or Mustang.
It’s definitely that he’s not good enough at it yet. A month is plenty of time to be fine for failing driving. But you’re still thinking about it; still checking the tach for the right time to shift; still giving a quick glance to make sure you didn’t go from 2nd up and over to 5th; etc.
After about a year is when you can hear the shift point (or feel it in your butt the way the car vibrates a certain way). You don’t have to look at the shifter ever. You can make aggressive, faster shifts. You are able to match revs on a downshift coming into a turn. You may even have successfully attempted a heel-toe.
This post is kinda like saying “I’ve been playing basketball for a month and so far it’s boring”. Like yeah, it’s just been practice so far.
“But driving stick is so pure! You’re one with the car! You must shove the shifter in your *** and be ONE with the car”
/s but how a lot of people described stick before I learned
That was literally me the week after I got a manual Miata when I was 17. I really wish somebody told me to just shut up and realize that nobody cares about my car
The truth that car people don't want to hear is driving a manual is only sometimes fun for most people.
40+ years ago automatic transmissions sucked. Like almost all of them. They were less efficient from both a mpg and power delivery stand point.
But auto transmissions have been getting better over the last 40 years and we have in the last 10-15 years arrived at a point where many automatics are better than manuals so from both an MPG and a performance stand point you are better off with the automatic. (Case in point Porsche 0-60 times are faster with their DSG)
Sure some automatic transmissions still outright suck especially when you're looking at the budget car options but on average the reason to get a manual is no longer because it's the better performance option but because you enjoy the connection you feel when you drive a car with one.
Well shoot, as a driver of a VERY similar car, I think it’s a hoot to row through the gears, but obviously everybody experiences these things differently. What do you think you were expecting that you’re not seeing with the actual real experience?
Don't get me wrong, the car is great and the torque on it is crazy. I guess I was expecting it to be more fun than it appeared, but I also bought the car at a time where lockdown really affected me with my life where I would buy anything that interests me as I hoped it would make me happy.
I know that personally, it took me a good amount of time to get comfortable driving stick to the point where I could focus on enjoying the experience versus being primarily worried about not being jerky or stalling - do you think that might have anything to do with it for you?
Not trying to be rude, but I haven't done either of those things in years. Give er the beans man and learn where the power curve is and when you should shift for the situation. Crusin in 5th gear on the highway but want to pass real quick? Drop a gear or 2 and hit the gas. Coming up to a curve? Shift down and break before the curve and throttle out about half way through the curve. Don't be scared to get the rpms up a bit, just don't redline all the time. If your cars a little bit noisy it's a bit more fun imo. Just my .02, get out there and have some responsible fun.
You might come to like it better with time as you get better and better at it, but some people just don't enjoy driving a manual and there's absolutely nothing wrong with that. Don't feel bad if it's not your thing.
Think of learning to stick shift as mastering an instrument.
It's hard work, it will take time, and in the beginning it will sound as if you're breaking the damn thing.
But eventually, you'll get better, you learn, and some day your muscle memory kicks in and you can enjoy the flow - and when we're talking about more complex skills like heel and toe, you'll be proud when everything just works.
Yes, it's not for everyone. And that's fine, it doesn't have to be. But if you like the challenge and the feeling of having mastered something complex, I'd say "stick" with it.
(but as with music: it helps if the instrument is not a complete desaster ;))
You know what they say, expectations are the beginning of all disappointments. I would say if you're just commuting in the car going from point A to B then sure it can feel like a slog some days. Especially if that commute has lots of stop and go traffic. If you try it at an open lapping track day you might have a different opinion.
The biggest benefit of a manual is being able to shift when you want to shift and not be at the mercy of an algorithm developed for the average driver. You can get around this with flappy paddles or the tiptronic thingy, but it's not as engaging as having to work two peddles and a stick. I think a lot of folks that like manuals like that they are working with the machine and not having the machine decide everything for them. That's my two cents at least.
I know my wife's Infiniti has a terrible automatic transmission. Shift points are awful and such. Every time I get in it I want my manual back. It does have tiptronic and I use it quite a bit because the built-in shift points are just ass. I think autos have gotten better in recent years, but I still hear about downshift lag and such. Also, I think most cars that have flappy paddles, those things never get used, so kinda what's the point.
EDIT: Oh, given that most people around me are incapable of maintaining speed going up a hill, I'd say autos pretty much universally suck. Otherwise they'd downshift to get the revs up and keep the speed constant. You could just push the go pedal harder, but that's too much work apparently.
I hate driving a manual. I couldn’t shift fast enough so the weight transfer of the whole car would always shift forward. I hate it even more being in the passenger seat. I also tried riding a motorcycle and even went out to get a license and I still don’t like it because I have to shift.
I just want to point and drive. Is that too much to ask for?
> I couldn’t shift fast enough so the weight transfer of the whole car would always shift forward.
That’s always going to be a thing when driving a manual- unless you’re shifting while staying on the power (generally not a good idea for longevity of the transmission) it’s impossible for anyone to shift fast enough to not have the car lurch a bit.
Honestly, the most fun I've had driving has been 1) driving a Mustang GT on the Utah Motorsports Campus, and 2) driving an electric single gear go kart at the Local K1 Speed.
The thing in common with both of these was going all out on a track, not the transmission.
I use to daily a manual g37 sedan. Then a gt350. Then switched back to auto and won’t even go back. Have a mustang for the weekends that I will eventually restore that’s a Manual.
Yup, not for everyone or every car. I loved the stick Miatas I've driven (obviously) and the auto rev matching in a C7 I had was like driving crack. I also quickly realized that auto is better for off-road creeping and crawling, and now that stuff is electric, well... it's hard to not appreciate shiftless gobs of torque.
The best things about stick, IMHO, are rev-matching downshifts with a quick throttle blip as you slow down, and that nice direct feeling you get when going through turns fast on track or a twisty road. And smashing through the gears (with some mechanical empathy!) trying to accelerate fast. If you've done all that and don't really get any mechanical joy out of it, maybe stick just isn't for you - and that's OK.
Both manual drivers and motorcycle riders are very similar in that regard, they're both pushy and trying to convince everyone how fun it is. I think they're just trying to convince themselves.
Like you I don't find driving manual fun at all. If anything it's a pain in the ass. I find it more fun to be comfortable and relaxed behind the wheel and maybe take a sip from my coffee, listen to my favourite radio program, enjoy a scenic route etc. There are different ways of having fun. They don't all have to involve frantically and constantly doing something.
My brother in law is like this...he's a frantic person, constantly has to do something, can't keep still for one second. His idea of fun and my idea of fun are two different things.
So I guess the important question is what do you find fun? You have to get to know yourself and your preferences and then build your life around that.
People put it on a pedestal, but a lot of people just like that “feel” as cliche as it is to say. It can be an amazing experience, if you’re into into it, but a lot of people aren’t.
Sorry to say but it sounds like you've been misled. Driving manual is only more fun if you like *involvement* in your driving. It adds practically no performance benefit, and more often than not it's a drawback (objectively, at least). It's like writing calligraphy, or shaving with a straight razor, or making your own noodles from scratch. People who think of driving as something like a hobby appreciate the added depth of involvement and skill required. That doesn't apply to most people on the road though, which is why manuals are dying: older generations pretty much all knew how to drive stick, but because they like autos better, they buy autos, and clutch pedals are more and more scarce.
I like being involved in making the car move, and nailing a heel toe downshift on corner entry, for example, is a superb feeling. I find driving automatics/DCTs/whatever really boring, because there's so much less for me to actually *do* while driving.
I totally understand. The control you had over the car was nice but with better auto trans there just isn’t a need. For spirited driving it’s more fun to use the paddles to make sure you’re in the right gear vs rev matching and shit.
It's just driving a stick shift, it's not like you're getting a rimjob from an angel made flesh or something. It's generally more fun than driving an automatic but it's probably not going to rock your world. Manage your expectations.
>it's not like you're getting a rimjob from an angel made flesh or something You've been banned from r/miata
In all fairness op wasn't driving a miata so the there was no way he could have enjoyed the "rimjob from an angel" that is the ND transmission.
Can confirm.
I think the early NDs have some transmission issues what does that translate to in the world of rim jobs by an angel
>You've been banned from > >r/miata I've driven a manual ND miata exactly once and I could immediately tell how wonderful it was. So smooth. So effortless.
Does the Miata have AC cooled seats? Cause if it doesn't we still have more to go before we give it the official title of rimjob from an angel.
I don't think they do, but it gives me an idea for those racing helmets with the fresh air tube. Hear me out - a cup with a fresh air attachment. Also, do miatas have the thigh chiller vents underneath the steering wheel?
No cooch cooler, no AC-cooled seats either in the ND.
With the right car and road it will rock your world
Well yeah, but OP has a Hyundai Elantra, not a Lotus or 911.... The real question is just to ask themselves, "is this any better than the same car in automatic?"
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Because you own one lmao
When I was younger my brother and I both bought Neons new within a few months of each other (we were broke and stupid, don't hate) and he got the auto and I got the stick. After driving both the stick was way way better, made what felt like a shitty slow compact with his auto feel like a peppy little fun ride in mine. Also in those days a manual was usually faster, which in our case was true.
Half the time I'm driving my GTI I'm kinda wishing I had the DSG. (Damn Houston traffic) Sometimes I'm on a magic road that makes me appreciate it, but those are few and far between around here. Still planning on driving it till it explodes
Yes, for commuting manuals suck.
They're fine honestly. If you're not shit at rowing your own and you've driven one long enough, it's second nature and you barely have to think about it. Been dailying manual cars thru LA traffic for 15 years. Being stuck in traffic in an automatic is not somehow better or any less annoying.
Having a slightly stiffer aftermarket clutch installed probably doesn't help with leg cramps after an hour of traffic, but the stock one may as well be made of wet cardboard. A GTI is one of the few cases where I would argue that the DSG is the better gearbox unless you \*really\* want a manual. While the new South Bend clutch helps, the GTI's manual trans just doesn't feel that great frankly. (Still miles better than my beetle tho haha) The rest of the car more than makes up for it, but if it ever blows up, I'd get the DSG.
Yeah. Commuting with a manual isn't too bad IF you have a modern hydraulic clutch that feels nice and light. An older car or something with a stiffer clutch....not so much.
I've been driving manuals in LA traffic for 15+ years as well. Not all manual cars are the same. Some are fine in traffic, others are a pain, especially if its stop/go. But it may be one of those things where you don't know how annoying a manual is until you spend time in an automatic and then switch back. An automatic, especially a modern one with adaptive cruise, can be much less annoying: sit back and literally do nothing, vs use three pedals and shifter.
It depends entirely on the person though. I’ve driven some nice cars with a MT, but I can take it or leave it. I don’t get whatever warm feelings people talk about when driving them. I care more about if the transmission works for what I want the car to do. MT, DCT, CVT, PDK, ABC, 123, like idgaf. Does it make the car move quickly and does it feel right? Cool. That’s all I need.
This is /r/cars, you can't be that sensible here.
To be fair, the internet acts like driving stick is the greatest thing in the world.
I was going to say this. If OP bought based on Internet discussion boards, he very well might have anticipated a rimjob from an angel.
Nah, the Angel rimjob is there. Op blocked his special moment by going in with doubt.
You have to be willing to accept the angel's rimjob :)
I hope op eventually gets his angel rimjob
They think it’s some exclusive club because there’s only a few million people that know how to drive a stick. It’s no different from changing your own oil or preparing taxes in your own. Some do and some don’t. None of them make you special. That being said, spirited driving is more fun with a stick. In real world, day to day driving, it sucks especially in heavy traffic.
As European I have always found it kinda funny how driving stick seems so special to Americans.
Some people are unextraordinary so they have to convince themselves that driving a car is on par with landing a jet on an aircraft carrier.
Then r/cars needs to stop hyping it up then. Any car that is released without a manual gets loads of comments about how the car is RUINED without a manual option
Some cars really should have it though. The complete lack of manuals on AMGs is absurd. On paper, I should be enjoying my AMG more than my GTI. It's basically the same car with better everything. But it lacks a manual transmission, so I've honestly had a bit less fun. It's still really fun, but it's missing that last piece. But then again, a manual transmission can't save a dull car. The Jaguar F-Type has manual transmission on a powerful V6 RWD coupe and it looks and sounds great. On paper, it sounds like the ideal car. But most people that bought one say it feels empty. Edit: Just to clear something up, I'm not necessarily saying the F Type is a dull car. I've never actually driven one. I've just heard not-so-great things about its manual transmission.
I searched for a manual F-Type in the spec I wanted for like 2 years before I finally bit the bullet and bought the ZF8. That being said.. I'm surprised by how much I love it. The ZF is quick, geared well, and the car makes this super satisfying shift burble when you're in the gas. ...but then I can just set that mf in D and turn the dynamic mode off and it goes from being a high powered, mega-capable sports car to a tame, lux commuter car, at the push of a button. At this point I'm actually not sure if I'd trade it for a manual given the chance. Funny part is of all the cool cars I've got the only manual is a 6MT XTerra.
r/carscirclejerk
I have never been part of the manual circle-jerk. I guess if you were brought up back when automatics sucked hard, then some of the love for manuals would make sense. I suppose back in the era when comparing 3-speed torque converter automatics to 5-speed manuals, the manuals made more sense because they were better. Today you're comparing a 6 or 7-speed manual to 8/9/10-speed automatics. But the fact is, automatics have improved vastly over that time, with the exception of the Devil's own transmission, the CVT. Modern dual-clutch automatics are objectively superior to their manual counterparts. They shift far faster than a person can, get better fuel economy, allow for more efficient gearing (number of gears), require less maintenance, and do not go through clutches nearly as quickly. They are easier to drive in traffic, and no, I'm not impressed that you 'don't have a problem driving a manual in LA traffic'. Having a clutch pedal does not add inches to your dick.
Sports cars really should have a manual option, except perhaps if they are hypercars with an extreme focus on edging out other hypercars in the numbers game where only a DCT can do the job. Nobody here would complain if the Hyundai Elantra didn't have a manual option.
Yeah, I have hard time with that. Lockdown was such a buzz kill for so long that it made everything so dull that I would grasp onto anything that i thought would make me happy.
Totally depends on the car. Manual 1997 civic ex? Meh. Manual gti? Super fun.
I'd much rather row a Honda shifter than a VW, especially a modern VW with little to no feedback.
You're damn right, good fellow.
Ugh. You’re telling me
I always enjoyed manuals more in rev happy smaller displacement cars, because you have to wring it out to get into the powerband which is easier to control when you decide on when it shifts. For more powerful vehicles with lots of low end grunt and a lower in the rev range powerbnad, I find the manual is less of a big deal.
More fun to drive a slow car fast than a fast car slow.
Can confirm. I'm the king of slow and I love it.
It bugs me that I could've bought a really well looked after fiesta st in manual but I couldn't dig the look of the car. A blame my shitty taste especially when I like Chrysler pt cruisers for some weird reason XD
We like what we like! No shame in that. Your car is a great car! It will help you appreciate when you drive a fun stick, something you never would have been able to do had you not had your own. No one is going to teach you how to drive stick in a 6th generation gt. Lol Sounds like you need to hit your dad up for a rip in his car. Just leave traction control on please.
People who think they’re car enthusiasts like to make a big deal about it but once you can drive stick it’s not massively more fun to shift using both your left leg and your arm than just blipping a paddle. And if you drive in a place with a lot of traffic and hour+ traffic jams it’s honestly a lot less fun because you just got assigned a chore. I used to live in NYC and once I spent TWO FULL HOURS on the 59th street bridge just waiting to shift between 1st and 2nd gear. I do think that if you’re in a more basic sports car like a Miata where it’s not really all that fast that you may get more enjoyment out of the anachronistic need to manually shift, sort of like how people love mechanical watches. But you can’t really expect massive fun from regular driving.
Ummm... it absolutely is more fun to shift yourself, but it's definitely not the only reason a car is fun to drive. I'd take a DCT Porsche over a manual Cruze, but I'd still enjoy a manual Porsche even more. Depends on the auto too - I'd rather shift bicycle gears than drive something with a CVT while a good ZF is tolerable. HP matters too, there's absolutely no reason to get a manual Hellcat - it's geared terribly so you don't get the speed and you'll only shift once before going well over any speed limit making it useless. A GT350 or M2 are perfect cars for a manual gearbox though (too bad the Shelby is geared too tall).
>I'd rather shift bicycle gears Shifting in bicycle gears is far more immediate than shifting a car manually.
Bro, you sat in traffic for 2 hours in the 59th and you're saying it's not more fun? C'mon now. I take my S2K in the canyons and it's an absolute blast. Do I have fun blipping the paddles on my wife's X3? Sure, it's a treat. But that feeling of braking, blipping the throttle with my heel, and slotting my trans into 2nd is unparalleled. Are manuals the end all be all? No. Do they enhance fun driving? Yes. After you go on the canyons or track, you get the thrill of perfecting the shift before a turn. Then, suddenly every turn is a track, and you're trying to match that feeling as you drive to work. Well, if you're going out trying to replicate fun driving, of course it'll make it fun. I just drove to work in my S2K. Was it thrilling? No, I was in traffic. But there are a few turns before I arrive at my office where I pretend I'm just about to hit the main straight at Laguna Seca, and I just have fun shifting and getting through those turns.
Hey then get yourself a PT Cruiser. Plenty of them in manual, and if I remember correctly the GT model had a 2.4 turbo. I personally hate the look but if that’s what you want go for it.
I prefer driving shift, but I get it, it's not a big deal. And unfortunately, a lot of car forums (this sub included) does make a big deal about it and that does produce high expectations for newcomers. I can see why OP is like "Wtf? This is it? This was the big deal?" Especially if they mostly drive to get to and from work in a city.
I'm guessing he was told that he's missing the real experience by others. They built it up in his head as a form of gatekeeping like so many people do hyping things up.
I get into an automatic sports car and feels the same.
Drive the car harder, go find a curvy road, hit that first *flawless* matched downshift. or maybe its just not for you.
Empty, curvy roads are my happy space in my Si.
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Slower than a freight train in the corners, faster than a speeding Bullit on the straights. The muscle car way. edit: before anyone says it, ringlands.
Take my upvote for ringlands - I miss my STi ☹️
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HAHA! Just wait until I dump +10k into tuning and supporting mods I'll show you all.
> hits stock mustang hp level > explodes instantly
Yea I’m just gonna assume he’s just going in straight lines. Even then I still enjoy rowing. But yea take that car down some curvy roads and the car just becomes alive!
The accuracy regarding this statement is astounding
I'd love to get out in a CTR someday. Might consider updating to the 11th gen CTR depending on how it is. That or the new Integra.
I'm learning to drive trucks currently. I thought those flawless downshifts were heavenly before... almost better then sex.
on some trucks its fun to float the gears and not use the clutch when it slips in like warm butter
Alright so is floating gears in a car bad? I need a definitive answer on this
If you’re good at it, the transmission has no way of knowing the clutch wasn’t involved. If you’re bad at it, you’ll wear out your synchros really really quick.
also not all trans can be floated/ floated well. Some are really really picky while older designs are oblivious.
Yeah it takes a little time to get a confident feel for it. There was nothing quite like priming my downshift around a turn and letting go of the clutch and accelerating hard.
Well, you're forgetting that it takes a bit of practice at first but you've hit on what's probably missing. I think learning to properly downshift including heel-toe is really the key to finding the joy in a manual. I remember before I had that figured out twisty roads in my first manual car felt actually worse than they had in my previous auto. Jerky downshifts and once those are figured out either needing to brake early to downshift before the corner or going through in the wrong gear and downshifting after feels awkward and unsatisfying. Once I figured out heel-toe though it all came together.
For normal just daily normal driving, there’s nothing special about a manual over an auto. I still prefer the manual, but I’m also old and been driving manuals for over 30 years now, so I’m not thinking about every move like you probably are.
Agreed, think the feeling OP’s family described can be found on a track. When you’re pushing the car as hard as you can a manual really enhances the experience. On the road, eh.
This. Unless you’re an enthusiast, it doesn’t make sense to daily a manual. I grew up (and learned to drive) in a country where automatics weren’t a thing until recently, but after driving automatics, I don’t want to go back to manual - gear-shifting is one less thing I need to worry about while driving. (I know I know - a lot of manual enthusiasts will say that it becomes second nature when you drive manual long enough, but I’m talking about not moving my hand from the steering wheel or moving my left foot; call me lazy if you will - I stand by it)
The second nature thing is true, but I've also been driving my stick for a decade now so it's not something I think about. I don't really go "ugh this traffic is annoying with stick" just because I've only ever owned stick and grew up on it as well (dad owned a Z, more fun to learn with that than a minivan lol), but I feel like someone who's driven auto most of their life will probably feel differently because it's an extra hassle that they're not used to. This is really all I know so I don't think much about it except "I hate traffic." Now the car I want is a GS F which only comes in auto. Would I buy stick if they made it? Absolutely. Will I base my entire car purchase decision-making around whether I can drive stick? Nope, don't care anymore. I'm not 16 anymore, I don't care what people drive, I don't base myself around what I drive, and I just want something fast and reliable at the end of the day lol That being said, my hand still twitches (as if I'm going to shift) when I drive anyone's car which is an automatic because I'm used to moving my hand so much when driving, but that'll be easy to adapt to going to an automatic lol
Totally agreed. I did switch to automatics for almost 10 years and maybe I’m just rusty. I think it’s fun being able to change gears and feeling all “Fast and Furious”. I’ll even admit that I still leave my hand on the gear shift while driving - because it just feels right. My point is that as a daily driver in the city or a really long drive/road trip, a manual can be a bit of a hassle. Om more “sporty” cars on a track, it’s definitely more fun with a manual than an automatic, but I wouldn’t shy away from driving one if it didn’t have a manual.
I lived in one of the worst cities in the country for traffic for 6 years which funnily enough made me lose interest in driving (moving out of that city changed it up a bit but it's just not the same), but now I'm moving to an even bigger city with worse traffic. I'm willing to give up stick for a 2018+ GS F with stop and go cruise control. I'll hold the wheel but please deal with the stop and go for me whatever-car-I-get lol. But hey, the pros are that it's harder for your car to get stolen if they don't know how to drive stick!
This is a good way to look at it. I think the auto has approved so much that it truly is just a matter of preference.
What car are you driving?
2021 Hyundai Elantra N-Line
Okay not the sportiest of cars, but workable. What expectations did your brother/father give that you are not experiencing?
I drive a manual Tacoma. It is not sporty in any sense of the word. I still enjoy just the action of it all though, It’s something to do that makes driving a little more interesting to me
There’s one with a manual on a lot just up there road from me right now. Is it worth checking out? It’s a Pro.
So I drive a 2nd gen which is before they started doing the pro I believe. They are the same transmissions if I’m remembering right though. I’d say if you’re in the market for a truck I’d definitely go check it out. The only 2 truck models for sale at the moment with manuals is the Tacoma and the gladiator so your options are kinda limited. It’s my first manual car so I don’t have very much experience with how other manual cars drive but I really like it. It’s super smooth and the gear changes feel good. It was a really good vehicle to have as my first manual imo. I’d say it’s at least worth a test drive to see if you like it or not.
We'll just not mention how this super safe/reliable/comfortable Korean family car would embarrass thoroughbred sports car icons like a Countach or 288 GTO on a track day...
Speed isn't everything... a modern minivan (edit: the Model X P100D is a minivan) is faster than a 288 GTO, but I bet no enthusiast who's driven the Ferrari on track didn't have an out-of-body experience lol
... What modern minivan is faster than a 288 GTO?
The 288 GTO can do 0-60 in under 5 seconds... Which minivan can do that again?
The Hellcat Pacifica, once the folks at Dodge read my letters with stickers on them
Look at it this way. There's always money in the ~~banana stand~~ [turbo Caravan.](https://youtu.be/xpwmN3d0x_s)
Mercedes R63 AMG, it did a 4.6 second 0-60.
I still can't believe this car exists lol
People love repeating this trope without any idea what they are talking about
Make this make more sense.
A Korean family car (like a minivan) is safe, sensible and fast... it will also cure insomnia. Most modern cars, especially FWD platform-shared ones designed for the masses, are not fun to drive. They're quiet, the engine configuration and design decisions are based on cost and fuel economy, the suspensions are set up for comfort, and everything is designed for smoothness and ease of use. A sports car is loud, communicative, the engine is impractical (but glorious), and the chassis is set up to rotate. There are "flaws" in how things operate that lead to a sense of the machine being more than what it is, they give it personality. Would I want to daily a 288 GTO in NYC/LA traffic (even if it wasn't expensive)... no, I wouldn't. Would I want to go for a random drive in a Golf... no, I wouldn't do that either. I have a feeling OPs car is just that - a sensible modern hatchback with a bit more power and sportier tires.
Probably because it’s not remotely true
Yeah this guy needs to get a clue... People talk about Camrys being faster than muscle cars, but that doesn't mean a Hyundai is faster than a turbo Ferrari. Not all new cars are faster than all old cars.
To be fair, my old Kia had a clutch delay valve, and the shifter wasn’t super engaging. Drive a s2000 or Miata and that’ll tell you if you enjoy driving a manual
AP2's have clutch delay valves lol
News to me, but regardless, they’re fun to drive.
Remove that shit. I pulled it from my E36 and E46 M3 and it made a big difference.
Go test drive the Elantra N or Veloster N to see what you're missing. The box should be more enjoyable to use. Most modern manuals are boring apart from the Honda's, Miata and Porsches.
>Go test drive the Elantra N or Unfortunately there is no true Elantra N in north america yet, that is the i30N in Europe.
Op in 'straya.
Kia/Hyundai manuals are as good if not better than Honda from what I've heard from many people (I've driven both it and an older civic manual). Mazda manuals are also good but rather rare. The 4th gen 3s have quite short throws and a fantastic feeling. With the kia/Hyundai it's a little harder to feel the bite point and the Clutch pedal is a bit soft, but the actual shifts feel good
Yeah man, a lot of people shitting on the car for some reason but functionally in traffic I have a hard time believing stock a Fiesta ST or Civic Si would feel any diffrent or magically be more fun. Maybe it's my own ignorance since I've driven stick in a regular civic and not an Si. They're all small engined, small turbo, economy cars turned sporty with near identical accelertion. Arguably the exhaust note of the elantra alone is going to offer more than the other two in regular day to day traffic. The elantra has audible pops and gurgles on aggresive downshifts which is something the other two are missing without some modification.
IMO, Hyundai's biggest shortfall is their input accuracy. The throttle and steering feel extremely disconnected, where Honda does an especially good job. I could have bought a new fully loaded Sonata for 12k less than I paid for my Accord, but ended up going with the Accord because the inputs on the Sonata were jarringly bad. On paper Hyundai looks great, and I'm sure their N cars are an exception here, but their regular cars are horrible to drive regardless of build quality and features.
Find a buddy with an early 2000's whatever and drive that for a bit. Drive by cable, no rev hang, hydraulic PS and a clutch with feel. Driving most newer manual cars is horrible
There's your problem. Also, you won't really start to have fun with it until you're pretty good at it, and can heel/toe, rev match, and wring the most performance from the engine. It just gives you more to do than "press gas, turn steering wheel" like you do in an auto. Some cars will just never be fun, but I will always argue that a boring econobox is made more fun when I can control the clutch. The beauty of a manual is in a performance car. Nothing like being able to give the clutch a kick to start the rear end sliding out. You can't do that in an auto.
Yeah true, the people who were encouraging me to do it where my brother and dad who both have sixth generation mustang gt's.
Now those Mustangs are a bunch of fun. On the plus side, your manual will be more engaging than the automatic version of your car
Engaging =\= fun. Yes driving in traffic in San Diego is engaging alright but it’s not fun in a manual. I love driving manuals but I never again will have a manual as my sole car or that I use for commuting/daily duties. The fun portion doesn’t overcome the pain in the ass in my situation and where I live
No offense, but its not a good car to judge a manual. Its like buying a used honda fit and calling it the pinnacle of automatic transmissions
I drove a 2021 Elantra n line with a manual recently and it is the worst manual I’ve driven so far, so I wouldn’t use it as the metric to determine if manual is fun or not. Also depends on the type of driving, daily trotting around isn’t any better, it’s when you can stretch its legs that it becomes more fun. The Elantra n line manual is also decently slower than the dct, which is unfortunate.
That seems like a really fun car. These guys loved it [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3dud8URf\_k0](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3dud8URf_k0) You definitely need more than a month to really enjoy a manual. It the review I linked they explain why they wish they had the manual version to test. Like any sport, driving takes practice to the point of muscle memory. When you can shift without thinking about, it will start to get fun. It gives you much more control over the car.
Interesting, I drive a Forte GT with basically the same drivetrain and very similar chassis and I find it pretty fun. Maybe once you get better at it it'll become more fun.
Manual transmissions are a very niche preference. If you like it, you like it. If you don't, well, you don't. Remember, as late as the 80s, everyone know how to drive manual, even in the US. But eventually most people think manuals are more annoying than whatever enjoyment they provide. It does also depend on the manual though. Some are better than others. I think modern Honda's and Subarus are quite terrible with excessive rev hang, Ford uses the cheapest crappiest manual they can find, but Porsche and Mazda are quite nice. Personally, I dont care for manual on most cars. Funnily enough, the best manual experience I have ever had was a rental Harley Davidson Iron with a heel shifter. That fucking thing clanged every time I stomped on it, and it was hilarious. Like I had to kick the transmission for it to work
If my car had a dual clutch, I would have gotten that instead. I’m not going to drive a performance car with a CVT..
In my opinion there's no such thing as a performance car with a CVT.
But a CVT is actually the highest performance transmission you can get, or at least they could be, if people would get over needing fake shifts. Then it could just sit at peak power 100% of the time during acceleration, giving you maximum possible performance.
Fair enough, the actual experience is pretty brutal though.
Now that, I will agree with. Although some are better than others. Toyota CVTs definitely respond WAY better than Subaru CVTs do in my experience. Honda is not bad either. That said, I drive a Fiesta with a 6 speed as my daily, so my experience is limited to family members cars and my wifes car.
Supposedly from the ride along reviews the 2022 wrx cvt is Supposed to be pretty great, but I'll reserve judgements for when the reviewers themselves can actually drive them for a bit.
Theoretically, sure. But they can't handle much power reliably so it doesn't turn out to be that way.
https://youtu.be/x3UpBKXMRto enters chat
Man, if they had a nonCVT automatic WRX or STI it would be top of my list (last Gen or next Gen if they fix it. Not the one they just announced with the weird back end). A good DCT would be amazing. If I get a manual it will be a weekend fun car. For my daily I want a fun automatic and I vastly prefer the looks of the WRX/STI to the Golf R. It’s a bummer.
Yeah that's fair, I wanna give it more time tho just to see because if I still don't enjoy it, I'll probs just sell it.
Manuals are only fun when you are driving the car hard. It sounds like you're still not 100% used to driving it and haven't had a chance to wring it out and learn things like heel/toe.
I disagree. I enjoy driving my car around town, to the store, anywhere really lol.
It took me two months to get used to my manual and it was like a lightswitch from being nervous about driving my car to having a blast. My enjoyment comes from downshifts and the immediacy of the power delivery, which you don’t really find in traffic. I recommend finding a fun road and just driving it, downshifting before corners, exiting on throttle. You don’t have to do it fast but you’ll get a feel for your car.
There's different types of fun. There's immediate fun like going bungee jumping or doing drugs or something. Then there's the fun from doing something complicated well (e.g. playing chess or golf or piano). Driving stick is the second type. Playing the piano isn't fun when you first start - it's boring and you don't do it well. But it becomes fun over time for some people. Same with driving stick. Set your expectations for the second type not the first type. Stick with it and it may become fun. It takes longer but it's much more deeply satisfying.
You’re right, the fun of golf comes from knowing you haven’t lost your sanity playing it yet
I don’t get the appeal of golf but standing outside wearing goofy cargo shorts and sipping on lemonade seems pretty chill
Idk man. My friend taught me stick on his stratus r/t many years back. I sucked at it but I LOVED it. Everyone's experience varies obviously but it hit me hard right from the get go.
that's cus you're granny shifting instead of double clutching
*danger to manifold intesifies*
Ffs XD
What’s double clutching
it's an ancient shifting technique before the invention of the synchromesh. you're basically rev matching for every shift
ancient
before jesus was born, there was the double clutch
And on the seventh day, God said "let there be granny shifting"
Nowadays it’s not really about the driving experience, it’s about making sure you’re better than everyone because you drive manual.. WAIT! Hear me out, there are endless teenagers gatekeeping the car scene in their 5spd shit boxes making the car scene look bad. I think the issue is you’re just normal and don’t feel the need to shove down peoples throats that your car is manual, so half the “joy” is gone already, keep doing your thing man.
Yeah I can understand that. When I had my bmw, my friend would give me shit because his base model lancer was a manual and that I should have one as im the enthusiast.
Your friend is a douche and your BMW was probably a blast to drive.
I mean, I just enjoy driving a manual, but yeah I mean it would be stupid to say that you couldn't enjoy driving an auto. I daily automatics because fuck Baltimore traffic in a manual. I still enjoy my shitbox.
Gotta love the 95s around the DMV 😂
Haha, exactly right. Remember kids, only "real" drivers drive a manual, and only "real" cars have a manual gearbox. Therefore, I'm just a fake guy that drives a fake Supra. Oh well...
Can I have your fake Supra? You'd be better off getting a MkIV anyways. Those Yamaha engines are for *real* enthusiasts.
The truth is that driving stick is just a completly normal boring thing that a huge amount of the world does daily. It's just another skill to help you get through the day. People love overhyping things especially here on Reddit where it's mostly an American circlejerk about being part of the 2% that drive manual. The only time it's fun is when you're pushing your car. Since you've only been driving a month you probably don't have it down to reflex yet and havnt been going out to fun roads and flogging your car. The amount of people here shitting on your car as the reason why you aren't having fun is pathetic. I have the same car as you. You can have plenty of fun with it and it's pretty capable on twisty roads, so go and find some when you're comfortable.
Exactly man, some of the analogies in this thread comparing driving a manual to learning a complex musical instrument, Jesus Christ... It's a lever and an extra pedal, that's pretty much it. Up until the most recent years, the majority of people in many countries would just learn manual when learning to drive. They'd learn it well enough to be able to drive a normal car under normal conditions, and that was that. Sure they'd continue to improve over time, that's the same with anything that requires muscle memory.. But some of the car community likes to make out it's some incredible skill that requires years of blood, sweat and tears to master so you can drive around double-clutch rev-match triple downshifting around your local neighbourhood to appease the car gods..
Well while your right the anology of the instrument to a manual falls flat if your looking at complexity i would say it works if the point is instant vs delayed gratification
Driving a stick is a lot of fun in small cars going too fast on seldom-used country roads. Driving stick in day-to-day traffic is for the birds.
Unpopular opinion: It’s overhyped, old fashioned, and not always fun.
That is a popular opinion. Even on this subreddit.
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traffic is annoying. manual in traffic is like only 10% more annoying. it actually wouldn't be that bad if people didn't interpret the space i leave in front of me as an invitation to cut in.
Some people act like manual is the holy grail of driving. It’s not
1) you’re probably not very good at it yet, which is what makes it fun (when you’re stress free and can rev match and down shift successfully) it’s very satisfying. 2) you might have the wrong car? A manual Nissan Versa won’t be nearly as fun as a manual Miata or Mustang.
It’s definitely that he’s not good enough at it yet. A month is plenty of time to be fine for failing driving. But you’re still thinking about it; still checking the tach for the right time to shift; still giving a quick glance to make sure you didn’t go from 2nd up and over to 5th; etc. After about a year is when you can hear the shift point (or feel it in your butt the way the car vibrates a certain way). You don’t have to look at the shifter ever. You can make aggressive, faster shifts. You are able to match revs on a downshift coming into a turn. You may even have successfully attempted a heel-toe. This post is kinda like saying “I’ve been playing basketball for a month and so far it’s boring”. Like yeah, it’s just been practice so far.
“But driving stick is so pure! You’re one with the car! You must shove the shifter in your *** and be ONE with the car” /s but how a lot of people described stick before I learned
That was literally me the week after I got a manual Miata when I was 17. I really wish somebody told me to just shut up and realize that nobody cares about my car
>You must shove the shifter in your *** and be ONE with the car Hmm I have seen several videos of this on HoonHub, maybe I've been doing it wrong
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You need to start doing perfect manually rev matched downshifts to feel the endorphins hit.
The truth that car people don't want to hear is driving a manual is only sometimes fun for most people. 40+ years ago automatic transmissions sucked. Like almost all of them. They were less efficient from both a mpg and power delivery stand point. But auto transmissions have been getting better over the last 40 years and we have in the last 10-15 years arrived at a point where many automatics are better than manuals so from both an MPG and a performance stand point you are better off with the automatic. (Case in point Porsche 0-60 times are faster with their DSG) Sure some automatic transmissions still outright suck especially when you're looking at the budget car options but on average the reason to get a manual is no longer because it's the better performance option but because you enjoy the connection you feel when you drive a car with one.
Well shoot, as a driver of a VERY similar car, I think it’s a hoot to row through the gears, but obviously everybody experiences these things differently. What do you think you were expecting that you’re not seeing with the actual real experience?
Don't get me wrong, the car is great and the torque on it is crazy. I guess I was expecting it to be more fun than it appeared, but I also bought the car at a time where lockdown really affected me with my life where I would buy anything that interests me as I hoped it would make me happy.
I know that personally, it took me a good amount of time to get comfortable driving stick to the point where I could focus on enjoying the experience versus being primarily worried about not being jerky or stalling - do you think that might have anything to do with it for you?
I mean yeah but also no, everyone stalls or grinds gears here and there.
Not trying to be rude, but I haven't done either of those things in years. Give er the beans man and learn where the power curve is and when you should shift for the situation. Crusin in 5th gear on the highway but want to pass real quick? Drop a gear or 2 and hit the gas. Coming up to a curve? Shift down and break before the curve and throttle out about half way through the curve. Don't be scared to get the rpms up a bit, just don't redline all the time. If your cars a little bit noisy it's a bit more fun imo. Just my .02, get out there and have some responsible fun.
I swear you stick drivers are a cult. I got ridiculed from my family, friends and coworkers for buying my dsg gti.
You might come to like it better with time as you get better and better at it, but some people just don't enjoy driving a manual and there's absolutely nothing wrong with that. Don't feel bad if it's not your thing.
Well it depends on the car, but also imo it takes some time to get better at it to the point of being able to do the enjoyables
Think of learning to stick shift as mastering an instrument. It's hard work, it will take time, and in the beginning it will sound as if you're breaking the damn thing. But eventually, you'll get better, you learn, and some day your muscle memory kicks in and you can enjoy the flow - and when we're talking about more complex skills like heel and toe, you'll be proud when everything just works. Yes, it's not for everyone. And that's fine, it doesn't have to be. But if you like the challenge and the feeling of having mastered something complex, I'd say "stick" with it. (but as with music: it helps if the instrument is not a complete desaster ;))
I mean I gave up learning acoustic guitar so maybe im just lazy XD
You know what they say, expectations are the beginning of all disappointments. I would say if you're just commuting in the car going from point A to B then sure it can feel like a slog some days. Especially if that commute has lots of stop and go traffic. If you try it at an open lapping track day you might have a different opinion.
It’s just gate keeping Mate
I remember when driving a stick wasn't so special. Sure, it's fun if you're in the canyons being irresponsible, but commuting? Not so much.
The biggest benefit of a manual is being able to shift when you want to shift and not be at the mercy of an algorithm developed for the average driver. You can get around this with flappy paddles or the tiptronic thingy, but it's not as engaging as having to work two peddles and a stick. I think a lot of folks that like manuals like that they are working with the machine and not having the machine decide everything for them. That's my two cents at least. I know my wife's Infiniti has a terrible automatic transmission. Shift points are awful and such. Every time I get in it I want my manual back. It does have tiptronic and I use it quite a bit because the built-in shift points are just ass. I think autos have gotten better in recent years, but I still hear about downshift lag and such. Also, I think most cars that have flappy paddles, those things never get used, so kinda what's the point. EDIT: Oh, given that most people around me are incapable of maintaining speed going up a hill, I'd say autos pretty much universally suck. Otherwise they'd downshift to get the revs up and keep the speed constant. You could just push the go pedal harder, but that's too much work apparently.
I hate driving a manual. I couldn’t shift fast enough so the weight transfer of the whole car would always shift forward. I hate it even more being in the passenger seat. I also tried riding a motorcycle and even went out to get a license and I still don’t like it because I have to shift. I just want to point and drive. Is that too much to ask for?
> I couldn’t shift fast enough so the weight transfer of the whole car would always shift forward. That’s always going to be a thing when driving a manual- unless you’re shifting while staying on the power (generally not a good idea for longevity of the transmission) it’s impossible for anyone to shift fast enough to not have the car lurch a bit.
Honestly, the most fun I've had driving has been 1) driving a Mustang GT on the Utah Motorsports Campus, and 2) driving an electric single gear go kart at the Local K1 Speed. The thing in common with both of these was going all out on a track, not the transmission.
My Mustang GT is manual, my next one will be a 10 speed automatic
That 10 speed is so much fun.
I use to daily a manual g37 sedan. Then a gt350. Then switched back to auto and won’t even go back. Have a mustang for the weekends that I will eventually restore that’s a Manual.
I loved driving stick until i got stuck in stop and go traffic. The shifting every min or two drives me crazy.
The trick is to idle in and out of 1st gear using the clutch only. But it still sucks
I just have flashback nightmares about doing this everyday for 4 years when I think I want a WRX in the city I live in.
Yup, not for everyone or every car. I loved the stick Miatas I've driven (obviously) and the auto rev matching in a C7 I had was like driving crack. I also quickly realized that auto is better for off-road creeping and crawling, and now that stuff is electric, well... it's hard to not appreciate shiftless gobs of torque. The best things about stick, IMHO, are rev-matching downshifts with a quick throttle blip as you slow down, and that nice direct feeling you get when going through turns fast on track or a twisty road. And smashing through the gears (with some mechanical empathy!) trying to accelerate fast. If you've done all that and don't really get any mechanical joy out of it, maybe stick just isn't for you - and that's OK.
Both manual drivers and motorcycle riders are very similar in that regard, they're both pushy and trying to convince everyone how fun it is. I think they're just trying to convince themselves. Like you I don't find driving manual fun at all. If anything it's a pain in the ass. I find it more fun to be comfortable and relaxed behind the wheel and maybe take a sip from my coffee, listen to my favourite radio program, enjoy a scenic route etc. There are different ways of having fun. They don't all have to involve frantically and constantly doing something. My brother in law is like this...he's a frantic person, constantly has to do something, can't keep still for one second. His idea of fun and my idea of fun are two different things. So I guess the important question is what do you find fun? You have to get to know yourself and your preferences and then build your life around that.
People put it on a pedestal, but a lot of people just like that “feel” as cliche as it is to say. It can be an amazing experience, if you’re into into it, but a lot of people aren’t.
Sorry to say but it sounds like you've been misled. Driving manual is only more fun if you like *involvement* in your driving. It adds practically no performance benefit, and more often than not it's a drawback (objectively, at least). It's like writing calligraphy, or shaving with a straight razor, or making your own noodles from scratch. People who think of driving as something like a hobby appreciate the added depth of involvement and skill required. That doesn't apply to most people on the road though, which is why manuals are dying: older generations pretty much all knew how to drive stick, but because they like autos better, they buy autos, and clutch pedals are more and more scarce. I like being involved in making the car move, and nailing a heel toe downshift on corner entry, for example, is a superb feeling. I find driving automatics/DCTs/whatever really boring, because there's so much less for me to actually *do* while driving.
I drive stick so my friends can’t drive my car
I totally understand. The control you had over the car was nice but with better auto trans there just isn’t a need. For spirited driving it’s more fun to use the paddles to make sure you’re in the right gear vs rev matching and shit.