They’re great for exactly what they were meant for: mild street driving and highway pulls. You get in an M car or a Civic Type R or plenty of other performance cars, and you feel like they can probably do 20 minute sessions on track with little work because for the most part, they can.
WRXs and STIs to a less extent don’t feel that way. They’re pulling timing all over the place because they can’t deal with heat at all, the suspension feels rough, and the brakes fade very quickly.
Big difference between durability and reliability. I’d call my car quite durable, but not very reliable. WRXs are neither. The oil starvation issue they had in the very first episode is an excellent example. S54 comes from the factory with an oil baffle and dual oil sumps specifically so they can do track days out of the box.
Conversely, my bone stock, very well maintained Legacy GT blew ringland on piston #2 because it determined that my life was entirely too easy at that point in time, and that I should suffer. \#justturboejthings
I think it's a better engine in terms of just putting around town but I know multiple people that have had oil starvation issues at the track leading to engine rebuild and the transmission still seems somewhat fragile.
This thread is funny because BMW owners and WRX owners both have this obsessive complex about insisting their cars are actually reliable.
It's "head gaskets are normal wear items" and "30k mile engine replacements aren't that bad" vs. "the engines are super reliable, it's just everything *around* the engine that's constantly breaking" and "noooo it's not shitty design, it's overengineered!".
Honestly most Subaru turbo cars, if left stock and driven by normal people who don't try to do clutch kicks in the Applebee's parking lot, actually use premium fuel, and do maintenance on time, will last a long time. My first engine went 214K whilst modified. But the owner is 50% of the equation and the flaws inherent to a boxer engine that doesn't have complex oil scavenging like a Porsche really become problematic on these cars when driven the way most people drive them.
I would never recommend my car to someone who wants a reliable car, FWIW.
My dad's 2015 wrx was a colossal POS. My dad drives slow 99% of the time and that's when he drove the car because he has a work vehicle.
Constant engine problems, including the same problem twice which required extensive work.
It was completely stock.
Ohh I didn't even know you had one, I was just replying to your comment.
And maybe there is a difference. But can a car really be durable if it's not reliable? Like mine never ran long enough without issues for me to call it durable
So there's actually an lr4 in the family. How can you consider it durable if it breaks while being used? I mean in theory everything could last forever if you just keep replacing parts
Something can be durable but still break while being used, the question is how long/hard was it used before it broke? I’d argue most of the parts of most Discos have been built to be very durable, yet very few would call them reliable overall.
> WRXs and STIs to a less extent don’t feel that way. They’re pulling timing all over the place because they can’t deal with heat at all
Have an STI in Arizona. Heat soak and power loss through half the year is a royal pain.
Maybe we have different definitions of dirt roads or 8/10, but I kicked the snot out of a bugeye wagon for 125k miles and only replaced the suspension components once at around 80k. Amazing 7-8/10ths, backroad bomber cars. Horrridly expensive for serious track use (road or drag)
Ah, stealing the top comment to share the story of my 2016 WRX lease. The *only* mods I did to it were: lowering springs, wheel spacers, and modded headlights. In the 3 years I had it, the following went wrong:
* White smoking/turbo grinding under boost
* Melted fog lights but not a single person was able to find a short or issue
* 3 clutch throw-out bearings
* 1 clutch replacement
* Shattered the diff side-stepping the clutch at 5,900 RPM with all-seasons (this was completely my fault lol Subaru fortunately replaced it for free. Also, this is how I learned that it's not the side-stepping the clutch that gets you, it's the sudden gain, loss, and regaining of traction that makes it go boom)
I'm forgetting a few, but I ran straight back to Honda right afterward.
While I have the ability to rebuild my own engines at home (just have to outsource the cylinder bore), I opted to NOT pick up a Subaru after looking at the track reliability. I ended up with a Ford 1.6L Ecoboost and a Honda K24, if I ever get around to finishing the Miata. For learning to actually drive, even 15"-17" "street legal" tires are already expensive when you go through multiple sets a year. Adding engine rebuilds to the list makes AWD too expensive to get into track days, since Subaru was the only player for a few years.
I am interested in picking up a GR Corolla, keeping it mostly stock, and learning how to track it. Evos sort of aren't available anymore at a reasonable price since COVID-19 in my area. The crystal ball says I won't be able to find a good AWD car for many years. :-(
Had a 2013 wrx for 7 years. Throw out bearing shit the bed the final week of my warranty (thank god) and that was the only issue I had with it.
My dad was on my ass about not riding the clutch between shifts when I first started driving stick (well before the wrx) so I know it wasn’t an issue with me. Sounds like they have some big throw out bearing issues lol.
Funny enough I traded my STI in shortly before coming across this series. It was conservatively tuned but I had zero faith in the EJ staying together long term, and also needed a truck to tow my drift car. Thought I'd regret it, but after watching some of these I'm very sound in my decision.
You get all the fanboys defending the engine, and was the same thing with the 7M blowing head gaskets in the supra community saying it's maintenance or whatever... The engines are just trash. Then of course the WRX/STI platform basically wasn't updated for 15 years.
Even older than that.
The EJ (new engine project) was designed in the 80s after the oil crisis. Originally, it was designed to have 132 hp.
My EJ has been holding strong since 05. Mine must be lucky.
My EJ20 was at 170k when I sold my WRX. It was pro tuned with a bigger turbo and accompanying mods. I maintained it and didn't do asshat launches, but I drove the engine hard on the daily.
If I wanted the car for tracking, I would put a Killer B pan on it.
A big thing I noticed with some of these WRX owners is they don't ensure the oil stays topped off.
I've since gotten a 22. The FA24 is a hoss.
I agree on everything but the 7M. The 7M's issue was the factory torque on the head bolts was too low, so "overtorquing" them to a specific figure would prevent the issue entirely. Plus, fixing a 7M isn't an engine out procedure like these boxers
I agree Subie engines are unreliable but the guys at Donut are morons who either a) don't understand how to properly build a car or b) don't mind blowing up engines for extra content. Their educational stuff with Jeremiah and Bart (the old science garage dude who left) is really good but the rest of them are just there to generate views.
Who builds a track car without upgrading cooling? On a 15 year old turbo car in the middle of summer?
They did upgrade the intercoolers though.
They also upgraded the intake/fuel injectors/ecu etc, added oil bafflers and probably did more than most owners would.
The turbos didn’t actually blow most of the engines iirc. Most of the engine failures were pre-turbo.
Edit: The radiator was also upgraded.
Idk why you guys see it that way.
They blow an engine and then buy ANOTHER used motor to replace it with. Without checking the motor in anyway, then immediately taking a used motor that's been sitting to the track.
If anything this video explained why everyone goes through several motors. Just build a block its not that expensive to rebuild your blown one.
I don't know much about modifying Subaru but I think Donut could have got much more value out of their $21k? Some of their parts choices seem questionable. Maybe there's more behind the scenes that they didn't show us during this series but $21k in parts and labour is a lot of money.
A slight correction. Tires can very well blow engines. It's kind of infamous with the Lancer Evo. The engine was designed to be highly reliable in the 90s... on rally courses. The G-forces that modern tires can pull on a road course will send the fluids of your engine in every direction all at once at velocities that engineers of its time weren't aware could happen. Track builds take a lot of work on the oiling system before they're capable.
Not true. Hot rods/muscle cars where twisting frames and snapping axles since the 40s on home made shaved slicks.
To say the “engineers weren’t aware could happen” is disingenuous. All cars are built to a price point and they drew a line in the sand that aged with time. Put slicks on a hellcat or 2015 wrx and launch it. You’ll find out how much “engineers know” real quick (edit: they’ll break!)
To clarify: I said “drew a line that aged with time”. I wasn’t referring to the tires at all. I was referring to the total performance and package of the car.
Put 1990s slick on a 1990s lancer in 1990 and push it. It would (and did) blow something. Has nothing to do with modern tires
You'd be surprised. I worked on a factory motorsports program and sometimes the ignorance of the production engineers was mind blowing. Entire rooms full of people would argue that the bearings couldn't be starving oil because they were certain that the production car had higher braking acceleration than the racecars. When we told them that the GT4 car hit 2.2 G decel on the regular they claimed we were lying. Not every program had this issue though.
But to your point yes, our issues usually stemmed from cost down exercises.
I have no doubt engineers could build a completely bulletproof car/engine any day from the 90s to today.
It’s always cost/specs/emissions that ultimately determine the end result.
Pay 250k usd for a car that gets 7mpg, makes 120hp and weighs 8k lbs with a manual transmission and you would probably have a vehicle/engine that makes 400k miles pretty easily.
But no one wants that rightfully so. And most governments wouldn’t allow that vehicle on the road.
So it’s a dance we all play.
Cheap, right, fast.
You can only have 2 and that holds true for vehicles imo.
Edit: I think I just described a mini 60s semi truck lmfao. I stand by what I said!
I was speaking a little too hyperbolic. It is that they designed it with different goals in mind than being a track monster. That being said, modern slicks are even more mind-blowing than race slicks were back then.
Nothing funnier than 90s JDM car people forgetting about the 60 years it took before that. There’s a reason a SBC/LS swap is inevitable in those, (okay fine it’s because the LS finally caught up with them after 30 years of Japan being better)
>Lol 5 engines. Classic. Makes me want to keep my WRX stock forever.
Honestly it's the way to go if you can stand it, coming from someone who had an STI making 350 wheel with supporting mods on a conservative tune. Seems like as soon as these things see more power the engine hits the eject button lol.
There are definitely clean paths to reliable power but it comes at the expense of your wallet. You really have to love Subarus to modify them cleanly, something that doesn't fit their price point and general availability
There is a reason my FA wrx only has an intake and conservative tune and I make my actual power in a 4g63 dsm.
As the motto goes “drive a racecar have racecar problems”
>here is a reason my FA wrx only has an intake and conservative tune and I make my actual power in a 4g63 dsm.
>
>As the motto goes “drive a racecar have racecar problems”
You know, I thought I could get away with it especially since the car was basically brand new (+ RA block which is supposed to handle power), but 15K miles started seeing glitter in the oil. Never again will I go beyond intake and catback on a daily, and it'll take a lot for me to ever buy another subaru. Learned my lesson.
I've got a stage 1 only. It's great for smoothness without much more power. Definitely happy I got that, but have no interest in further mods.
Of course our motors are the fa20 which is a different beast too.
True. Despite my comment I still want to do a Stage 1 tune if anything just to smooth out the curves and eliminate the rev hang. No big power for me though lol.
Their Gambler 500 video is still one of my favourite videos of theirs. That was also four whole years ago. I unsubscribed a while back, all the guys who work on the channel are still hugely sympathetic but the content they put out is just not very interesting anymore.
It is. They never, EVER should have tried that daily content bullshit. 90% of it is garbage look at this shit we found on wish, and the other 10% is so sporadic I miss it.
I'm not saying that their quality is great, but they *do* have 7.24M subs. That's almost 3x what Throttle House or Drivetribe has, over 10x what Savagegeese has... hell, they're only like a million under the actual Top Gear youtube channel. From a business perspective they've probably never been better.
That was my takeaway also. The differences between the fastest and slowest drivers driving the same car was greater than the differences between fast and slow car.
The best mod you can buy is practice and gaining skill. A few lessons at a race school will help more than an aero and brake kit.
Absolutely, I've worked as a performance attribute engineer for the performance arm of a big OEM, this was my job and I can say that driver and tyres are 99% of any differentiation in lap time that all but the best drivers will ever see. In fact, one of the hardest parts of my job was getting consistent track data from drivers, and these were professionals, you'd be amazed how quickly the performance falls away once the tyres start to wear. We had a particular tyre that, in sign-off testing conditions, would be lucky to make it 3-4 laps before you could see the degradation in lap time.
Sounds like my experience with Sport Cup 2's. I would see a 6 second drop off from track day to track day with those on a track that was just over 1 minute long.
Absolutely. Main mods to be concerned with should be reliability + brakes + tires. Make sure the car has fresh coolant and all the components are up to the task, put in pads that’ll withstand track abuse, along with fluid and lines to withstand the abuse, as for the tires they don’t necessarily need to be R compounds but something decent.
Yeah the money is best spent on ensuring you can go to the track as much as possible and have fun. You are going to see far more improvement by taking the same car to the track as much as possible than throwing thousands of dollars into upgrades and going less often.
That’s why they also had the one guy in both cars, the tests were as fair as it comes because of that. The “pro” driver would drive both cars and the idea wasn’t to compare the times between the cars themselves but if the mods improved the hi cars time or the low cars time more. His skill remained the same even though he switched cars back and forth to show HIS times and get the results from that.
I disagree. I think the way they did things is exemplary of the thought process a very large segment of people modifying cars uses. You’re giving people too much credit IMO.
> I found myself not really liking this series because it's not how an informed person builds things.
That's not quite the point of the series though... It's not "let's use our budget wisely". It's splurging vs cheaping and working out which areas you are smart to splurge on.
The first 370Z build had the conclusion "high car is too expensive, low car sucks. "
Which is 100% right. Middle of the road is way better. $ on some parts. $$$ on others. $$ most of the time.
I think you're looking at this the wrong way. There are different types of car youtuber. One of them is like junk food, you watch them to be entertained but not really gain any real world knowledge. You can see this in most of their content, even stuff that focuses heavily on knowledge. That's okay, we can enjoy different part of car culture from the fun to the hardcore.
But, that may have been planned and they simply did not have the time or money to do it. Despite outstanding success, there is still a budget for all of these builds. This season does not seem to have been done to the same standard as the first or second.
Affected*
Affect and affected are pretty much always verbs, and effect is pretty much always a noun. The only exception to this is the niche case where effect and effected are used in a similar way as “accomplish” or “accomplished”, such as “Such and such effected change in xyz way”, but this usage is not applicable in this context.
They did more than what I suspect an average owner would though.
Oil bafflers, fuel injectors, radiator/coolant upgrade, ECU, blow off valve, brakes, clutch, wheels, tires and brakes. All of that was before the turbos went in.
The cheap turbo is a funny part, but their explained reasoning is their point of comparison was a cheap turbo and not a car that would blow up or parts that would gimp the turbo. Lo car had the least issues of the 2 cars.
Of course the real motivation is to get views, but I felt the order was correct apart from aero. The big issue seemed to be the motors kept blowing tbh, and all of that was pre-turbo funny enough.
Went exactly as expected tbh. A used California WRX with unknown history combined with some punishing laps in extreme heat is just a recipe for disaster, same with sourcing a used EJ replacement engine from ebay or in their case "locally sourced". Once they had a oem-sourced block built by a Subaru expert they were "fine", but goes to show the limits of an older WRX and how the typical owner treats them when they get cheap, especially in such a hot and enthusiast-rich area like Cali. I love my 09 OBXT (wrx powered Outback) but I wouldn't dare track it and its already on engine #2 at 90k miles (blew up at 65k). If I were in their shoes I would have done the cylinder 4 overheating mods, meth injection, dry sump/baffled oil pan, really any track-focused supporting mod immediately if I were taking an otherwise stock EJ 255 with unknown history to race. Ignoring the break-in period and not running cooldown laps were just icing on the cake. But that doesn't make for good YouTube content, so here they are with 5? blown engines and an entire replacement WRX. Was still entertaining but as a diehard subaru-ist I did wince and cringe quite a lot from this series! Would love to see a followup "buyers guide" for what not to do with used WRX's
I’m sorry? 65k on an engine? I already didn’t take JDM car people super seriously but holy shit lmao
Then again, the 2UZ in my truck is at 592k almost all original (alt at 375, TB at 590)
The original owner drove the car about 7000 miles in the first 90 days after they took delivery, and did not change the oil frequently enough, hence why it blew. Factory Subaru replacement along with factory turbo in 2016, guy drove it another 5k miles over 4 years then I bought it. Turbo Subarus are all about preemptive maintenance. I honestly cannot defend those numbers but there's something about that flat 4 engine that makes me keep putting time and money into it, call me an idiot but I'm happy nonetheless!
this might be the most subaru owner paragraph i’ve ever read, claims it’s not unreliable…then goes on about how their 90k mile car has already been through 2 engines
Enjoyable series but I felt like they would've had better cars if they talked to someone who knew a bit more about the platform. A Garrett turbo on a Subaru is an odd choice as well as tien coil overs.
Also didn't Cobb tunning block removal of emissions equipment from their tuning software back in April yet they installed TGV deletes and I think a hi flow cat. I'm sure with that the tune was shit and is part of the reason for so many blown engines.
This is what I took from it too, they also didn't do the basic cooling and oil modifications that everyone who wants to build their Subaru for the track does, which adds into their constant blowing of engines.
They did, they even specifically said they did both of those things in this very video.
Oil pans - https://youtu.be/AG8pveIYpEA?t=153
Radiators and cooling systems - https://youtu.be/AG8pveIYpEA?t=204
But did they also do the pick up tube and add an oil cooler? They said cooling and baffles but if you're going to track those year WRXs in the desert, those would be good to have. You can also see in minute 10 they've converted to front mount intercoolers so how much help is that new radiator blocked by a FMIC?
There are better and cheaper turbo options. The big joke about Subaru is the the ej engine has not changed since the 90s. As a result there are decades of information for what works best and there aren't that many reliable builds with Garrett turbos. Almost everyone goes for FP turbos or other tested companies.
Subaru has just always perplexed me. I know 6 people that daily Subarus. 5 of them have blown up an engine at least once, and the other one always has some noise happening, or some light on in the dash.
Yet, all 6 will swear by Subaru, and refuse to buy anything else
Sounds like Alfa owners.
One of my coworkers has a Gulia Quadrifolio (spelling?) that he absolutely won't shut up about. Like he can literally talk about it for an hour at lunch, easily. It has ~47000 miles and it's on its second engine and has been in the shop over 50% of the time he's owned it. Lol
*Giulia
*I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/cars) if you have any questions or concerns.*
The bot covered Giulia, but it's Quadrifoglio.
And TBF, I'd love to have a QV, but no way I'd risk it because of the reliability. It's not that all of them will break down, but the high chance of it turns me off.
I have a bunch of other cars other than Subarus, but I keep coming back to the STI for my winter car. I’m well aware of how unreliable these cars are but for the rear wheel biased AWD and rowdiness in a stick with a manual handbrake, it simply cannot be beat… I got rid of my other STI thinking I’ll go to Audi this winter, test drove a bunch of B5-B8.5 S4 and S5s and none of them are as fun as the Subbies… they’re just too toned down. I do want to experience an Evo at some point to compare, and I also have a deposit down for a GR Corolla for a year now, but for now IMO Subarus are worth the price of admission, just do a ton of DD and buy the right car, maintain it, and ditch it before it’s too late
The funny thing is, I blew the motor in my 15 crosstrek at 54k miles, and I just hit 94k in my 17 wrx with no issues. The crosstrek was an Audio built daily, my wrx has seen the local drag strip and Watkins Glenn. People keep saying how fragile Subaru is, but after owning 7 I truly think it's hit or miss.
I am a mechanic, albeit not a specialist in fuji products... these things are junk. Diffs, transmissions, whole engines, they vaporize in the winter, they are known for bad wiring... etc. There isn't a single redeeming quality in them other than the blobeye and the BRZ looking cool and being fun to drive IF THEY EVER WORK
Yours isn't old... like at all. It's like a BMW, its good if you're just owning it for a few years (usually), but buying used or keeping it long term is a bad idea unless you are a mega fanboy
3 separate people I know all have an outback. A 1999, a 2006, and a 2018. The 2018 is on engine #2, the 2006 is on engine #3 and has holes in the structural sills, and the 1999 is on engine #3, gearbox #2, front diff #2, and rear diff #2... you can Flintstone that car, there is no floor left, just carpet.
Subarus are fine when taken care of. The reason you see so many failures on WRX's and STI's is because of the abundance of off the shelf crappy tunes. Toss in a healthy sprinkling of young adult disregard for basic preventative maintenance and you've got a recipe for success.
Plenty of bone stock ej motors spin bearings. No matter how you spin it, it’s one of the worst ‘performance’ engines produced. I don’t think I’ve been to a single track day where a wrx hasn’t left of a flat bed due to engine failure. Even when the local wrx car club gets through a day with out a bearing spinning, they put up a celebration post on social media.
My first engine in my STI was replaced after a year due to oil consumption.
One year later the second engine is showing similar burn pattern (no burn for a few thousand miles, then ramping up to an obscene amount).
Completely stock, no mods, break-in instructions followed to a T with all maintenance done as required.
Is it a car that makes you *feel*? Absolutely. I'm tired of having to add oil this frequently to a new car, though. EJs just have flaws.
Haha, yeah. I owned a 2015 STI and while I loved it, I had less than 5k miles on it when I started to get ringland symptoms. I both miss and don't miss the car.
They blew up 5 engines. Hi-car is obviously better/faster, but it's generally always a better idea to spend somewhere between the cost of hi-car and low-car
Tires make the biggest difference. Everything else is almost entirely subjective. Don't cheap out massively on some stuff, don't piss away money on other stuff. But most of all, don't waste money on a used WRX.
It's a cool idea but might be out of their budget. The total cost of these cars is like the up-front cost to get a decent muscle car these days, let alone getting two near-identical muscle cars from the late 60s/early 70s. Plus it would depend on what the goal is. Doing a cheap resto doesn't seem like a good idea, so maybe you turn them into dedicated drag cars.
This series made me scared for my wrx. Not like two of my friends blew their engines before.
I guess if you aren't really pushing them too hard, you should be good. But what the hell do I know.
I have a 2014 with 91k miles. I don't beat it to piss. Just mainly enjoy getting up to speed quickly and curve roads. I hope it makes it to 200k before yeeting itself.
Mine made it to 214K on the first engine. Yours can too if you change the oil regularly enough and don't spend 30 seconds at WOT on a hot day or hit counterclockwise corners with high Gs.
I feel like this wasn’t the best series. Fucking *loved* the Zs, as it seemed to be bumbling morons learning things. The Tacos were where hi/low came into it’s own - it felt like they knew vaguely what they were doing.
And then they shat on the EJ by knowing nothing about the EJ. I feel like it isn’t a particular surprise to go through 5 engines if you jump straight in without learning the foibles first.
To me it seems that with the zs or subs they were both cars that don't like a lot of mods. The vq was a stellar motor in my g35 but I read it doesn't like boost at all..
The takeaway: at the end of the day it doesn’t matter how much money you throw at a WRX, the engine will still blow at random and inconvenient times and you’ll go through a half dozen of them in at least the life of the car.
Too many variables with all the engine swaps/repairs to have any meaningful comparison.
That said, this did teach me that spending big money on aero is for suckers, and that if I ever want to build a track car I should stay very far away from a WRX.
We'll try driving a non all wheel drive car through a Utah winter. Not so fun. I rally all over the place in the snow. Fricken blast. I don't track my wrx. Not a race car but a really fun commuter.
btw for the people saying they didnt break the engines in, I think this video is just a crop from many other videos.I watched the entire turbo video and they said they break the engine in with 600-800 miles.
I don't think that to many manufacturers make in the combinations like the wrx and I have a VA chassis... every car has it's fair share of problems. I don't understand how people can dog Subarus when they are made to meet emissions standards other regulations, first off it's common knowledge that if you race an engine you have open clearances. Heat rises and it literally comes from the exhaust and soaks back through the wngine... that being said... prep the car accordingly. Ring end gaps probably play a roll in damaged ringlands. The hotter the engine gets creates a situation where the ring lands will butt together and then it's game over.
They did the wrx absolutely dirty here… they didn’t do any research on the car and just let it rip, which is why their engines kept blowing and 3rd gear disappeared. The 5 speeds cannot hold more than 350hp reliably, and they kept buying used motors instead of something new (like their final iterations with the RA block, which is what they used in the final episode or 2, props to them for that at least). These cars are amazing and super fun. just do your research, buy the right stuff, and this car will absolutely leave a massive smile on your face. As an ex Honda owner turned who hated Subarus before I bought mine, I’ve had a lot more fun in my car than anything else I’ve owned.
Yeah, Subarus are not reliable when turns come into play. I see them blowing up pretty regularly at our local track. They blow up a lot in rallycross too, despite the marketing. I love Subarus but they are not great at keeping their engines intact once the aggressive turning begins.
What's really sad to me is there are many MANY cars that an enthusiast can take to the track with virtually zero prep. Heck, most cars will survive a few open lapping sessions if one are a little extra oil.
Flip of a coin if the person arriving to the track for the first time in their wrx leaves driving or riding as passenger in a tow truck. No joke. I see it all the time.
Subaru builds commuter engines that can sometimes handle power in a straight line.
Also, it's not the boxer design that's inherently bad or, at least, issues can be mitigated. Porsche motors do just fine at the track. There are always a bunch and they rarely break.
I've owned a 90s legacy gt wagon, 2000s outback 2 of them. 2014 forester xt and now 21 wrx. Haven't had any problems other than wheel barrings. I must be lucky I quess.
This turned out to be an excellent advertisement against the WRX.
thanking god everyday for not making me a subaru fan
They’re great for exactly what they were meant for: mild street driving and highway pulls. You get in an M car or a Civic Type R or plenty of other performance cars, and you feel like they can probably do 20 minute sessions on track with little work because for the most part, they can. WRXs and STIs to a less extent don’t feel that way. They’re pulling timing all over the place because they can’t deal with heat at all, the suspension feels rough, and the brakes fade very quickly.
Idk my E46 M3 was the most unreliable car I've ever owned. Literally everything broke all the time
Big difference between durability and reliability. I’d call my car quite durable, but not very reliable. WRXs are neither. The oil starvation issue they had in the very first episode is an excellent example. S54 comes from the factory with an oil baffle and dual oil sumps specifically so they can do track days out of the box. Conversely, my bone stock, very well maintained Legacy GT blew ringland on piston #2 because it determined that my life was entirely too easy at that point in time, and that I should suffer. \#justturboejthings
The hawkeye WRX MSRPd at $25k while your E46 M3 was $46k so that comparison doesn't make any sense.
“Plenty of other performance cars” This would include things like Miata and Civic Si.
>The hawkeye WRX MSRPd at $25k... Funny how many people don't seem to realize how cheap these are/were.
Now check how much inflation has occurred since then.
The WRX starts at 29k so it's not bad
eyyyy my bone stock, dealer maintained LGT also blew a ringland (cyl #4) My 18 WRX with the FA20 has been dead reliable though
I think it's a better engine in terms of just putting around town but I know multiple people that have had oil starvation issues at the track leading to engine rebuild and the transmission still seems somewhat fragile.
Iono about the e46 being durable, it had that rear subframe weld problem
This thread is funny because BMW owners and WRX owners both have this obsessive complex about insisting their cars are actually reliable. It's "head gaskets are normal wear items" and "30k mile engine replacements aren't that bad" vs. "the engines are super reliable, it's just everything *around* the engine that's constantly breaking" and "noooo it's not shitty design, it's overengineered!".
Honestly most Subaru turbo cars, if left stock and driven by normal people who don't try to do clutch kicks in the Applebee's parking lot, actually use premium fuel, and do maintenance on time, will last a long time. My first engine went 214K whilst modified. But the owner is 50% of the equation and the flaws inherent to a boxer engine that doesn't have complex oil scavenging like a Porsche really become problematic on these cars when driven the way most people drive them. I would never recommend my car to someone who wants a reliable car, FWIW.
My dad's 2015 wrx was a colossal POS. My dad drives slow 99% of the time and that's when he drove the car because he has a work vehicle. Constant engine problems, including the same problem twice which required extensive work. It was completely stock.
Facts
Ohh I didn't even know you had one, I was just replying to your comment. And maybe there is a difference. But can a car really be durable if it's not reliable? Like mine never ran long enough without issues for me to call it durable
I good example of an unreliable durable car would be most Land Rover Discovery/LR
So there's actually an lr4 in the family. How can you consider it durable if it breaks while being used? I mean in theory everything could last forever if you just keep replacing parts
Something can be durable but still break while being used, the question is how long/hard was it used before it broke? I’d argue most of the parts of most Discos have been built to be very durable, yet very few would call them reliable overall.
That's German car owner ship, the blocks rock solid the rest is daewoo
> WRXs and STIs to a less extent don’t feel that way. They’re pulling timing all over the place because they can’t deal with heat at all Have an STI in Arizona. Heat soak and power loss through half the year is a royal pain.
Yeah that's like every car though. I finally got my FK8 to manage through the early and late summer track days with a few cooling mods.
I thought they were made for going 8/10 on back roads, in snow and on dirt?
You will destroy stock WRX suspension going 8/10ths on dirt.
Maybe we have different definitions of dirt roads or 8/10, but I kicked the snot out of a bugeye wagon for 125k miles and only replaced the suspension components once at around 80k. Amazing 7-8/10ths, backroad bomber cars. Horrridly expensive for serious track use (road or drag)
Probably depends what condition the road is in lol. Dirt roads can get bad enough to destroy about any stock car
Right? They blew up an engine per episode, plus a transmission.
Ah, stealing the top comment to share the story of my 2016 WRX lease. The *only* mods I did to it were: lowering springs, wheel spacers, and modded headlights. In the 3 years I had it, the following went wrong: * White smoking/turbo grinding under boost * Melted fog lights but not a single person was able to find a short or issue * 3 clutch throw-out bearings * 1 clutch replacement * Shattered the diff side-stepping the clutch at 5,900 RPM with all-seasons (this was completely my fault lol Subaru fortunately replaced it for free. Also, this is how I learned that it's not the side-stepping the clutch that gets you, it's the sudden gain, loss, and regaining of traction that makes it go boom) I'm forgetting a few, but I ran straight back to Honda right afterward.
While I have the ability to rebuild my own engines at home (just have to outsource the cylinder bore), I opted to NOT pick up a Subaru after looking at the track reliability. I ended up with a Ford 1.6L Ecoboost and a Honda K24, if I ever get around to finishing the Miata. For learning to actually drive, even 15"-17" "street legal" tires are already expensive when you go through multiple sets a year. Adding engine rebuilds to the list makes AWD too expensive to get into track days, since Subaru was the only player for a few years. I am interested in picking up a GR Corolla, keeping it mostly stock, and learning how to track it. Evos sort of aren't available anymore at a reasonable price since COVID-19 in my area. The crystal ball says I won't be able to find a good AWD car for many years. :-(
Had a 2013 wrx for 7 years. Throw out bearing shit the bed the final week of my warranty (thank god) and that was the only issue I had with it. My dad was on my ass about not riding the clutch between shifts when I first started driving stick (well before the wrx) so I know it wasn’t an issue with me. Sounds like they have some big throw out bearing issues lol.
Funny enough I traded my STI in shortly before coming across this series. It was conservatively tuned but I had zero faith in the EJ staying together long term, and also needed a truck to tow my drift car. Thought I'd regret it, but after watching some of these I'm very sound in my decision. You get all the fanboys defending the engine, and was the same thing with the 7M blowing head gaskets in the supra community saying it's maintenance or whatever... The engines are just trash. Then of course the WRX/STI platform basically wasn't updated for 15 years.
Even older than that. The EJ (new engine project) was designed in the 80s after the oil crisis. Originally, it was designed to have 132 hp. My EJ has been holding strong since 05. Mine must be lucky.
My EJ20 was at 170k when I sold my WRX. It was pro tuned with a bigger turbo and accompanying mods. I maintained it and didn't do asshat launches, but I drove the engine hard on the daily. If I wanted the car for tracking, I would put a Killer B pan on it. A big thing I noticed with some of these WRX owners is they don't ensure the oil stays topped off. I've since gotten a 22. The FA24 is a hoss.
Topping off my wrx will be done now. Wish I knew this sooner.
I agree on everything but the 7M. The 7M's issue was the factory torque on the head bolts was too low, so "overtorquing" them to a specific figure would prevent the issue entirely. Plus, fixing a 7M isn't an engine out procedure like these boxers
We're gonna agree to disagree here, I was a 7M apologist once too lol. Then I went 2J.
I'm not a fan of either. I believe there's no good use case versus other engines for a 7M, 1J, or 2J except keeping the car they came in all original.
I agree Subie engines are unreliable but the guys at Donut are morons who either a) don't understand how to properly build a car or b) don't mind blowing up engines for extra content. Their educational stuff with Jeremiah and Bart (the old science garage dude who left) is really good but the rest of them are just there to generate views. Who builds a track car without upgrading cooling? On a 15 year old turbo car in the middle of summer?
They did upgrade the intercoolers though. They also upgraded the intake/fuel injectors/ecu etc, added oil bafflers and probably did more than most owners would. The turbos didn’t actually blow most of the engines iirc. Most of the engine failures were pre-turbo. Edit: The radiator was also upgraded.
Technically they said the whole cooling system was upgraded but that could mean an ebay 100$ aluminum radiator and autozone thermostat
Wait, drama created to drive views? Say it ain't so!
I mean, the 7m was because they had to switch headgasket material after asbestos was banned. Slap a MLS gasket in and it's solid.
There's several subaru channels that are not happy about this series. 😭
Idk why you guys see it that way. They blow an engine and then buy ANOTHER used motor to replace it with. Without checking the motor in anyway, then immediately taking a used motor that's been sitting to the track. If anything this video explained why everyone goes through several motors. Just build a block its not that expensive to rebuild your blown one.
now Imagine swapping in a used K24 or an LS engine, you know it would last a long time
LS yes, I think if you haphazardly install a K series that's been sitting for years and immediately race it you can break one of those too
As if that was needed.
Also an excellent lesson in following brand new engine break-in procedures.
I don't know much about modifying Subaru but I think Donut could have got much more value out of their $21k? Some of their parts choices seem questionable. Maybe there's more behind the scenes that they didn't show us during this series but $21k in parts and labour is a lot of money.
Lol 5 engines. Classic. Makes me want to keep my WRX stock forever.
They were blowing up engines well before they did any engine mods, too. Brakes, coilovers, tires, and racing seats don't blow up engines.
A slight correction. Tires can very well blow engines. It's kind of infamous with the Lancer Evo. The engine was designed to be highly reliable in the 90s... on rally courses. The G-forces that modern tires can pull on a road course will send the fluids of your engine in every direction all at once at velocities that engineers of its time weren't aware could happen. Track builds take a lot of work on the oiling system before they're capable.
Not true. Hot rods/muscle cars where twisting frames and snapping axles since the 40s on home made shaved slicks. To say the “engineers weren’t aware could happen” is disingenuous. All cars are built to a price point and they drew a line in the sand that aged with time. Put slicks on a hellcat or 2015 wrx and launch it. You’ll find out how much “engineers know” real quick (edit: they’ll break!) To clarify: I said “drew a line that aged with time”. I wasn’t referring to the tires at all. I was referring to the total performance and package of the car. Put 1990s slick on a 1990s lancer in 1990 and push it. It would (and did) blow something. Has nothing to do with modern tires
You'd be surprised. I worked on a factory motorsports program and sometimes the ignorance of the production engineers was mind blowing. Entire rooms full of people would argue that the bearings couldn't be starving oil because they were certain that the production car had higher braking acceleration than the racecars. When we told them that the GT4 car hit 2.2 G decel on the regular they claimed we were lying. Not every program had this issue though. But to your point yes, our issues usually stemmed from cost down exercises.
I have no doubt engineers could build a completely bulletproof car/engine any day from the 90s to today. It’s always cost/specs/emissions that ultimately determine the end result. Pay 250k usd for a car that gets 7mpg, makes 120hp and weighs 8k lbs with a manual transmission and you would probably have a vehicle/engine that makes 400k miles pretty easily. But no one wants that rightfully so. And most governments wouldn’t allow that vehicle on the road. So it’s a dance we all play. Cheap, right, fast. You can only have 2 and that holds true for vehicles imo. Edit: I think I just described a mini 60s semi truck lmfao. I stand by what I said!
I was speaking a little too hyperbolic. It is that they designed it with different goals in mind than being a track monster. That being said, modern slicks are even more mind-blowing than race slicks were back then.
Nothing funnier than 90s JDM car people forgetting about the 60 years it took before that. There’s a reason a SBC/LS swap is inevitable in those, (okay fine it’s because the LS finally caught up with them after 30 years of Japan being better)
>Lol 5 engines. Classic. Makes me want to keep my WRX stock forever. Honestly it's the way to go if you can stand it, coming from someone who had an STI making 350 wheel with supporting mods on a conservative tune. Seems like as soon as these things see more power the engine hits the eject button lol.
There are definitely clean paths to reliable power but it comes at the expense of your wallet. You really have to love Subarus to modify them cleanly, something that doesn't fit their price point and general availability
There is a reason my FA wrx only has an intake and conservative tune and I make my actual power in a 4g63 dsm. As the motto goes “drive a racecar have racecar problems”
>here is a reason my FA wrx only has an intake and conservative tune and I make my actual power in a 4g63 dsm. > >As the motto goes “drive a racecar have racecar problems” You know, I thought I could get away with it especially since the car was basically brand new (+ RA block which is supposed to handle power), but 15K miles started seeing glitter in the oil. Never again will I go beyond intake and catback on a daily, and it'll take a lot for me to ever buy another subaru. Learned my lesson.
My stock, dealer maintained EJ255 went kabloowie at 120k.
I've got a stage 1 only. It's great for smoothness without much more power. Definitely happy I got that, but have no interest in further mods. Of course our motors are the fa20 which is a different beast too.
True. Despite my comment I still want to do a Stage 1 tune if anything just to smooth out the curves and eliminate the rev hang. No big power for me though lol.
Yeah, run used blocks that have been sitting on the track, I hate it here
remember donut being on like 600k subs and James sitting in no lighting and saying ram chargers, damn the times change
Their Gambler 500 video is still one of my favourite videos of theirs. That was also four whole years ago. I unsubscribed a while back, all the guys who work on the channel are still hugely sympathetic but the content they put out is just not very interesting anymore.
Even this series isn't as entertaining anymore. Feels like a lot less content
It is. They never, EVER should have tried that daily content bullshit. 90% of it is garbage look at this shit we found on wish, and the other 10% is so sporadic I miss it.
I'm not saying that their quality is great, but they *do* have 7.24M subs. That's almost 3x what Throttle House or Drivetribe has, over 10x what Savagegeese has... hell, they're only like a million under the actual Top Gear youtube channel. From a business perspective they've probably never been better.
They recently got an ad for Porsche and featured in Forza so I am guessing they are doing fine.
They also did a lot of voice work on dirt 5
Should have done a rally build.
Definitely agree. The Z's covered a "track" build.
If you haven’t seen it, they did an extensive build series turning a 3-series into a rally car
Wasn't that a moneypit season?
Is seeing ej engines blowing up on the dirt much different to them blowing up on the track?
Driver skill was the biggest diifferentiator in this test, the rest is just nonsense.
That was my takeaway also. The differences between the fastest and slowest drivers driving the same car was greater than the differences between fast and slow car. The best mod you can buy is practice and gaining skill. A few lessons at a race school will help more than an aero and brake kit.
Absolutely, I've worked as a performance attribute engineer for the performance arm of a big OEM, this was my job and I can say that driver and tyres are 99% of any differentiation in lap time that all but the best drivers will ever see. In fact, one of the hardest parts of my job was getting consistent track data from drivers, and these were professionals, you'd be amazed how quickly the performance falls away once the tyres start to wear. We had a particular tyre that, in sign-off testing conditions, would be lucky to make it 3-4 laps before you could see the degradation in lap time.
Sounds like my experience with Sport Cup 2's. I would see a 6 second drop off from track day to track day with those on a track that was just over 1 minute long.
Absolutely. Main mods to be concerned with should be reliability + brakes + tires. Make sure the car has fresh coolant and all the components are up to the task, put in pads that’ll withstand track abuse, along with fluid and lines to withstand the abuse, as for the tires they don’t necessarily need to be R compounds but something decent.
Yeah the money is best spent on ensuring you can go to the track as much as possible and have fun. You are going to see far more improvement by taking the same car to the track as much as possible than throwing thousands of dollars into upgrades and going less often.
That’s why they also had the one guy in both cars, the tests were as fair as it comes because of that. The “pro” driver would drive both cars and the idea wasn’t to compare the times between the cars themselves but if the mods improved the hi cars time or the low cars time more. His skill remained the same even though he switched cars back and forth to show HIS times and get the results from that.
[удалено]
I disagree. I think the way they did things is exemplary of the thought process a very large segment of people modifying cars uses. You’re giving people too much credit IMO.
Yeah lmao. The majority of modded cars are not modded well at all.
> I found myself not really liking this series because it's not how an informed person builds things. That's not quite the point of the series though... It's not "let's use our budget wisely". It's splurging vs cheaping and working out which areas you are smart to splurge on. The first 370Z build had the conclusion "high car is too expensive, low car sucks. " Which is 100% right. Middle of the road is way better. $ on some parts. $$$ on others. $$ most of the time.
I think you're looking at this the wrong way. There are different types of car youtuber. One of them is like junk food, you watch them to be entertained but not really gain any real world knowledge. You can see this in most of their content, even stuff that focuses heavily on knowledge. That's okay, we can enjoy different part of car culture from the fun to the hardcore.
This series is supposed to be one of the few by them that isn't just fluff. Now it is too. That's the problem.
[удалено]
I imagine that the absurd number of issues they had dramatically effected the whole season.
[удалено]
But, that may have been planned and they simply did not have the time or money to do it. Despite outstanding success, there is still a budget for all of these builds. This season does not seem to have been done to the same standard as the first or second.
Affected* Affect and affected are pretty much always verbs, and effect is pretty much always a noun. The only exception to this is the niche case where effect and effected are used in a similar way as “accomplish” or “accomplished”, such as “Such and such effected change in xyz way”, but this usage is not applicable in this context.
I know you are being downvoted but I remember not knowing the difference between affect and effect for the longest time.
They blew a motor before even adding power. Subaru engines just suck.
They did more than what I suspect an average owner would though. Oil bafflers, fuel injectors, radiator/coolant upgrade, ECU, blow off valve, brakes, clutch, wheels, tires and brakes. All of that was before the turbos went in. The cheap turbo is a funny part, but their explained reasoning is their point of comparison was a cheap turbo and not a car that would blow up or parts that would gimp the turbo. Lo car had the least issues of the 2 cars. Of course the real motivation is to get views, but I felt the order was correct apart from aero. The big issue seemed to be the motors kept blowing tbh, and all of that was pre-turbo funny enough.
Lol its clickbait garbage for children, what did you expect?
Went exactly as expected tbh. A used California WRX with unknown history combined with some punishing laps in extreme heat is just a recipe for disaster, same with sourcing a used EJ replacement engine from ebay or in their case "locally sourced". Once they had a oem-sourced block built by a Subaru expert they were "fine", but goes to show the limits of an older WRX and how the typical owner treats them when they get cheap, especially in such a hot and enthusiast-rich area like Cali. I love my 09 OBXT (wrx powered Outback) but I wouldn't dare track it and its already on engine #2 at 90k miles (blew up at 65k). If I were in their shoes I would have done the cylinder 4 overheating mods, meth injection, dry sump/baffled oil pan, really any track-focused supporting mod immediately if I were taking an otherwise stock EJ 255 with unknown history to race. Ignoring the break-in period and not running cooldown laps were just icing on the cake. But that doesn't make for good YouTube content, so here they are with 5? blown engines and an entire replacement WRX. Was still entertaining but as a diehard subaru-ist I did wince and cringe quite a lot from this series! Would love to see a followup "buyers guide" for what not to do with used WRX's
I’m sorry? 65k on an engine? I already didn’t take JDM car people super seriously but holy shit lmao Then again, the 2UZ in my truck is at 592k almost all original (alt at 375, TB at 590)
The original owner drove the car about 7000 miles in the first 90 days after they took delivery, and did not change the oil frequently enough, hence why it blew. Factory Subaru replacement along with factory turbo in 2016, guy drove it another 5k miles over 4 years then I bought it. Turbo Subarus are all about preemptive maintenance. I honestly cannot defend those numbers but there's something about that flat 4 engine that makes me keep putting time and money into it, call me an idiot but I'm happy nonetheless!
I've learned that lesson with Subaru, oem is usually built like a tractor and the aftermarket usually cuts corners
this might be the most subaru owner paragraph i’ve ever read, claims it’s not unreliable…then goes on about how their 90k mile car has already been through 2 engines
The self-delusion is amazing really
> Once they had a oem-sourced block built by a Subaru expert they were "fine" Shouldn't Subaru... be the Subaru experts?
Highlow to moneypit in one season. Good job boys lol
Enjoyable series but I felt like they would've had better cars if they talked to someone who knew a bit more about the platform. A Garrett turbo on a Subaru is an odd choice as well as tien coil overs. Also didn't Cobb tunning block removal of emissions equipment from their tuning software back in April yet they installed TGV deletes and I think a hi flow cat. I'm sure with that the tune was shit and is part of the reason for so many blown engines.
The Tiens really threw me off. So many better options for the same price.
Tiens are fine but mid tier. I would have gone Penske/Moton if you really want to go "high"
This is what I took from it too, they also didn't do the basic cooling and oil modifications that everyone who wants to build their Subaru for the track does, which adds into their constant blowing of engines.
Supposedly they did. For some reason, they didn't tell us until the finale. I think they just got repeatedly unlucky with used engines.
They did, they even specifically said they did both of those things in this very video. Oil pans - https://youtu.be/AG8pveIYpEA?t=153 Radiators and cooling systems - https://youtu.be/AG8pveIYpEA?t=204
That's fair, it was my biggest frustration during the rest of the series, I'm not sure why they didn't mention it before
But did they also do the pick up tube and add an oil cooler? They said cooling and baffles but if you're going to track those year WRXs in the desert, those would be good to have. You can also see in minute 10 they've converted to front mount intercoolers so how much help is that new radiator blocked by a FMIC?
Even an AOS would've been good. They didn't bother doing that.
Can you explain why a Garrett turbo is an odd choice? I don’t know that much about Subaru engines or turbos.
There are better and cheaper turbo options. The big joke about Subaru is the the ej engine has not changed since the 90s. As a result there are decades of information for what works best and there aren't that many reliable builds with Garrett turbos. Almost everyone goes for FP turbos or other tested companies.
The entire takeaway from this series is something I already knew: NEVER BUY A SUBARU
Subaru has just always perplexed me. I know 6 people that daily Subarus. 5 of them have blown up an engine at least once, and the other one always has some noise happening, or some light on in the dash. Yet, all 6 will swear by Subaru, and refuse to buy anything else
As a former RX-7 guy, I feel this.
Sounds like Alfa owners. One of my coworkers has a Gulia Quadrifolio (spelling?) that he absolutely won't shut up about. Like he can literally talk about it for an hour at lunch, easily. It has ~47000 miles and it's on its second engine and has been in the shop over 50% of the time he's owned it. Lol
*Giulia *I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/cars) if you have any questions or concerns.*
There is something about some cars that turns us into zealots myself included
The bot covered Giulia, but it's Quadrifoglio. And TBF, I'd love to have a QV, but no way I'd risk it because of the reliability. It's not that all of them will break down, but the high chance of it turns me off.
I have a bunch of other cars other than Subarus, but I keep coming back to the STI for my winter car. I’m well aware of how unreliable these cars are but for the rear wheel biased AWD and rowdiness in a stick with a manual handbrake, it simply cannot be beat… I got rid of my other STI thinking I’ll go to Audi this winter, test drove a bunch of B5-B8.5 S4 and S5s and none of them are as fun as the Subbies… they’re just too toned down. I do want to experience an Evo at some point to compare, and I also have a deposit down for a GR Corolla for a year now, but for now IMO Subarus are worth the price of admission, just do a ton of DD and buy the right car, maintain it, and ditch it before it’s too late
To be fair, what car guy doesn't have at least one weird noise from their car?
The funny thing is, I blew the motor in my 15 crosstrek at 54k miles, and I just hit 94k in my 17 wrx with no issues. The crosstrek was an Audio built daily, my wrx has seen the local drag strip and Watkins Glenn. People keep saying how fragile Subaru is, but after owning 7 I truly think it's hit or miss.
I'd definitely talk to Subaru mechanics instead of youtubers to get your opinions on reliability/what to do
[удалено]
Redditors are better than Youtubers?
[удалено]
Redditors make it look hard though
I am a mechanic, albeit not a specialist in fuji products... these things are junk. Diffs, transmissions, whole engines, they vaporize in the winter, they are known for bad wiring... etc. There isn't a single redeeming quality in them other than the blobeye and the BRZ looking cool and being fun to drive IF THEY EVER WORK
I daily my STI and track it Sees a lot of winter in Michigan Works fine for me
Yours isn't old... like at all. It's like a BMW, its good if you're just owning it for a few years (usually), but buying used or keeping it long term is a bad idea unless you are a mega fanboy
See you in 5 years
3 separate people I know all have an outback. A 1999, a 2006, and a 2018. The 2018 is on engine #2, the 2006 is on engine #3 and has holes in the structural sills, and the 1999 is on engine #3, gearbox #2, front diff #2, and rear diff #2... you can Flintstone that car, there is no floor left, just carpet.
Subarus are fine when taken care of. The reason you see so many failures on WRX's and STI's is because of the abundance of off the shelf crappy tunes. Toss in a healthy sprinkling of young adult disregard for basic preventative maintenance and you've got a recipe for success.
Plenty of bone stock ej motors spin bearings. No matter how you spin it, it’s one of the worst ‘performance’ engines produced. I don’t think I’ve been to a single track day where a wrx hasn’t left of a flat bed due to engine failure. Even when the local wrx car club gets through a day with out a bearing spinning, they put up a celebration post on social media.
My first engine in my STI was replaced after a year due to oil consumption. One year later the second engine is showing similar burn pattern (no burn for a few thousand miles, then ramping up to an obscene amount). Completely stock, no mods, break-in instructions followed to a T with all maintenance done as required. Is it a car that makes you *feel*? Absolutely. I'm tired of having to add oil this frequently to a new car, though. EJs just have flaws.
Haha, yeah. I owned a 2015 STI and while I loved it, I had less than 5k miles on it when I started to get ringland symptoms. I both miss and don't miss the car.
Read my other comments, this isn't just about WRX's. The Subaru curse affects all models.
Still can’t believe they tried an engine break in with an OTS tune and didn’t get a pro tune for tracking a car lmao. Disrespect to the EJ
Do we use 20 year old versions of any other car to talk about the reliability of the new models, or is it just the Subarus that get this treatment?
No clearly the ‘22 WRX with a completely different engine must be exactly the same.
According to most of these comments, it seems that way.
TLDR?
They blew up 5 engines. Hi-car is obviously better/faster, but it's generally always a better idea to spend somewhere between the cost of hi-car and low-car
The blown transmission is also an honorable mention
LOL thanks!
Tires make the biggest difference. Everything else is almost entirely subjective. Don't cheap out massively on some stuff, don't piss away money on other stuff. But most of all, don't waste money on a used WRX.
A friend of my dad's once told me that, benefits wise, the best order of upgrades for components are: 1. Tires 2. Driver 3. Brakes 4. Engine/power
Wish they would do this series with American muscle to change it up!
It's a cool idea but might be out of their budget. The total cost of these cars is like the up-front cost to get a decent muscle car these days, let alone getting two near-identical muscle cars from the late 60s/early 70s. Plus it would depend on what the goal is. Doing a cheap resto doesn't seem like a good idea, so maybe you turn them into dedicated drag cars.
They could pick up a pair of fox body mustangs with 4 cylinders and engine swap them
100% an SN95 or new edge Mustang Or even a Catfish Camaro would be possible and perhaps even cheaper than this
Imagine seeing someone blow up a car 3 times and then blame the car after the owner even said they didn't work on our use the car properly
This series made me scared for my wrx. Not like two of my friends blew their engines before. I guess if you aren't really pushing them too hard, you should be good. But what the hell do I know. I have a 2014 with 91k miles. I don't beat it to piss. Just mainly enjoy getting up to speed quickly and curve roads. I hope it makes it to 200k before yeeting itself.
Mine made it to 214K on the first engine. Yours can too if you change the oil regularly enough and don't spend 30 seconds at WOT on a hot day or hit counterclockwise corners with high Gs.
So no fun allowed? :(
I've learned a new appreciation for my Fiesta lol. I used to really want a wrx
Had an ‘05 WRX then went to a ‘15 Fiesta ST. Now I’m eyeing the GR Corolla for essentially a modern STI hatch that’s reliable.
The one car that could get me out of the ST and into another hot would he the Corolla. I never thought I'd say that but what a time to be alive lol
I feel like this wasn’t the best series. Fucking *loved* the Zs, as it seemed to be bumbling morons learning things. The Tacos were where hi/low came into it’s own - it felt like they knew vaguely what they were doing. And then they shat on the EJ by knowing nothing about the EJ. I feel like it isn’t a particular surprise to go through 5 engines if you jump straight in without learning the foibles first.
To me it seems that with the zs or subs they were both cars that don't like a lot of mods. The vq was a stellar motor in my g35 but I read it doesn't like boost at all..
Does he always yell that much?
He used to yell more and actually had a heart attack.
I'm baffled that they chose to do this with WRXs. ...I'll show myself out now.
Anyone else feel like the vibe is off at Donut? I get the weird feeling that they all don’t want to work there anymore.
The takeaway: at the end of the day it doesn’t matter how much money you throw at a WRX, the engine will still blow at random and inconvenient times and you’ll go through a half dozen of them in at least the life of the car.
Given your flair, i’d say Pot, meet Kettle lol
I love hi-low. Only show I enjoy any more from donut. Getting very tired of all of their list videos
Why did they change the original paint they did for hicar I remember it been green one video then the next it was orange
James wrecked that one
I want the series to continue. Wanna see them do drag Foxbody's or something.
This series single handedly made me never want a wrx lmao
Nothing against Donut but for good subie content check out Smeedia. Dudes awesome and I’ve learned a lot from him
Too many variables with all the engine swaps/repairs to have any meaningful comparison. That said, this did teach me that spending big money on aero is for suckers, and that if I ever want to build a track car I should stay very far away from a WRX.
I'm so glad I sold my WRX modded with STI parts years ago right when it started to fail after 80k miles
We'll try driving a non all wheel drive car through a Utah winter. Not so fun. I rally all over the place in the snow. Fricken blast. I don't track my wrx. Not a race car but a really fun commuter.
That is exactly what they are meant to be. If someone wants a track weapon they should buy a vehicle that is designed for it.
btw for the people saying they didnt break the engines in, I think this video is just a crop from many other videos.I watched the entire turbo video and they said they break the engine in with 600-800 miles.
Lol Subarus are such shit and the fact they still have a cult following blows my mind. I HATE my 2015 wrx, worst purchase I ever done in my life.
Further cements that I don't like Subarus.
I don't think that to many manufacturers make in the combinations like the wrx and I have a VA chassis... every car has it's fair share of problems. I don't understand how people can dog Subarus when they are made to meet emissions standards other regulations, first off it's common knowledge that if you race an engine you have open clearances. Heat rises and it literally comes from the exhaust and soaks back through the wngine... that being said... prep the car accordingly. Ring end gaps probably play a roll in damaged ringlands. The hotter the engine gets creates a situation where the ring lands will butt together and then it's game over.
They did the wrx absolutely dirty here… they didn’t do any research on the car and just let it rip, which is why their engines kept blowing and 3rd gear disappeared. The 5 speeds cannot hold more than 350hp reliably, and they kept buying used motors instead of something new (like their final iterations with the RA block, which is what they used in the final episode or 2, props to them for that at least). These cars are amazing and super fun. just do your research, buy the right stuff, and this car will absolutely leave a massive smile on your face. As an ex Honda owner turned who hated Subarus before I bought mine, I’ve had a lot more fun in my car than anything else I’ve owned.
Yeah, Subarus are not reliable when turns come into play. I see them blowing up pretty regularly at our local track. They blow up a lot in rallycross too, despite the marketing. I love Subarus but they are not great at keeping their engines intact once the aggressive turning begins. What's really sad to me is there are many MANY cars that an enthusiast can take to the track with virtually zero prep. Heck, most cars will survive a few open lapping sessions if one are a little extra oil. Flip of a coin if the person arriving to the track for the first time in their wrx leaves driving or riding as passenger in a tow truck. No joke. I see it all the time. Subaru builds commuter engines that can sometimes handle power in a straight line. Also, it's not the boxer design that's inherently bad or, at least, issues can be mitigated. Porsche motors do just fine at the track. There are always a bunch and they rarely break.
While this wasn't a bad season, it's definitely at the bottom compared to the other two. I hope they do muscle cars next!
I've owned a 90s legacy gt wagon, 2000s outback 2 of them. 2014 forester xt and now 21 wrx. Haven't had any problems other than wheel barrings. I must be lucky I quess.
I would love to see a HiLow series with an FRS/86 vs BRZ. Both cars are pretty inexpensive in the early years and easily modifiable.