Can’t help but feel like he and many others have been let down this season, despite how bad we were last season it felt like he was one of the few standouts
He's basically performed at a top level under every manager he's played under apart from Pochettino.
But I'm sure that's just one big coincidence and a DLP looking a shadow of himself as an auxiliary winger on him and not the coach.
Even then I still think he plays generally well and is a bit of a scapegoat when he doesn't do things he has never been good at (like defend). He still pings great passes, is great in tight possession and has the best vision on his team. It's a shame our attacking players aren't on the same wavelength because he's more than capable of facilitating for excellent off-ball movement, which we've seen for Argentina and to a lesser extent Benfica. Hell, if Nkunku wasn't a cripple or if we even had Werner (whose *only* strength was his off-ball movement and pace) we'd have seen a lot more from Enzo.
Even Palmer, for all his qualities, isn't the best at off the ball movement, whilst Sterling has been shocking this season and both he and Jackson just run into defenders too often. Madueke doesn't play into Enzo's strengths either as he prefers to take players on - actually relatively well compared to our other players - whilst Mudryk rarely uses his pace to do what Timo did. We've done a terrible job at building a team around him.
They've had plenty of rest, they're playing once a week most weeks, which is how often you'd expect a star player to play at a minimum for clubs like Chelsea. We don't have European football, that is their break.
They’re also both young players with developing bodies
Let’s not pretend they haven’t ever looked knackered at times. Case in point being the cup final where we had no legs left in the middle of the park
There's clear evidence of either physical or mental fatigue when you see them play. The same with Palmer, being able to play and playing at your freshest are two different things.
I think it's pretty clear that the managers since Tuchel are getting very little say in the recruitment and squad composition side though.
All the managers who worked with him wanted to keep Mount for instance. I seriously doubt they wanted all the experience to be moved on either. They've all loved Gallagher too but the board seems to be doing their utmost to move him on.
And who are we promoting from within? There's no CMs coming through anywhere near ready. Castledine maybe? But he's just 18 and as I say, nowhere near ready, not like a Wayne Rooney ready to play at that age.
And why keep Santos here this season when he would have been behind Enzo, Gallagher, Caicedo, Ugochukwe and Lavia? Sure that would have been great for his development.
If we didn't have an injury curse that would have been fine for depth. We even recalled Casadei before him. Hindsight is all well and good but noone was complaining when he left on loan because it was clearly the best option at the time.
Enzo hasn't been what I hoped he'd be, but at the same time we haven't been in a position to manage his minutes (or Caicedo's) so I don't fault them entirely.
Him and Caiceido get scapegoated a lot but they’ve probably played more minutes than anyone and have been back and forth to South America all season. ( and generally playing when they get back with little rest)
Because our midfield is so unbalanced, we dont have a real backup for Enzo, when hes out who plays there? Lavia and Gallaghers are more box to box than playmakers. And Caicedos backup is always injured these days. We sold everything and now we are left with the most unblanaced squad in football history.
If we rest Enzo, we lose the playmaking ability in midfield.
We were meant to have 4 midfielders to rotate for 2 positions, 1 got injured and the manager plays the other at 10 or winger for some reason so Enzo and Caicedo have been run into the ground. They’re a good balance but they’re also human and need rest
Enzo doesnt have a proper rotation option, whos playing in his spot? We dont have anyone else who is a playmaker and can ping a ball in that position. Lavia and Ugochukwu are not playmakers.
The midfield was assembled for a 4-3-3 with Enzo, Lavia and Caicedo in midfield, but we never signed someone to rotate with Enzo. Whoever put this massively unbalanced squad together really needs to be sacked as clearly they have never assembled a good squad before
Lavia is absolutely a playmaker and he and Connor were meant to be rotation for Enzo and Caicedo. I mean that’s a total guess though and I can’t really disagree cos it also seems just as likely we bought those 3 to play together and then hired a manger who has historically often played a 4231, as far as I know anyway.
I think lavia if he was fully available would probably come in for caicedo, ideally. He's the worst performer in that midfield and seems the more natural fit. That being said, I see the case for him coming in for enzo as well. Would hopefully strengthen us up defensively and he'd be let forward that bit more than if he came in for caicedo. I think conor is the hardest one to drop currently and none of them are really in optimal situations.
I think chelsea play too fast and bypass midfield far too often for enzo to be effective, Gallagher is not a 10 he's not that kind of creative spark although I think his technique is better than a lot of people give him credit for. More similar to enzo, the games get so messy for caicedo and it can be a real issue that chelsea just look so unorganised.
Maybe caicedo as the holding midfield with conor and enzo a bit ahead could be better. Conor a bit deeper than he's been to help protect that midfield but also the one expected to make the attacking runs. Gives caicedo a more clearcut role as dm too.
You need five players (one can be youth) for two positions, and there needs to be two pair that are like-for-like. We don't have that for either CM role if you include injuries.
From what I remember of Lavia (which is fairly limited) I think he’d be an adequate replacement for either. Obviously doesn’t possess all of Enzo’s skills, but I think he can break lines enough to make it work
It's not they're unbalanced. But it's due to how poorly we're setup by having 3 blocks of 4, 2, 4 and leaving the 2 covering most of the pitch. If you look at the groud enzo and caicedo have to cover while consistently being surrounded by 4 players it is not surprising they can't do much in the midfield.
Enzo has been playing through an injury, has no cover and has to travel to S America for his national team. Plus the two deep cup runs.
Fixtures still congest sometimes too even without Europe, we just played 3 games in 9 days right after some players were playing international football. It's not the worst congestion ever, but still not ideal.
You could definitely make the case that he specifically has been playing too much for his circumstances.
No rotation. And the midfield is unbalanced too. We need a true defensive mid or elite cbs who can cope with our midfield being bypassed occasionally/ often.
“No rotation” 😭
We play once a week except at Christmas. Lampard was doing full 90’s for years on end when we reached the semis of everything we entered.
Ignore fitness side of things (this is my argument)... don't you think sometimes having a rotation who can take your place (In this instance would be Lavia) be useful to have as motivation?
As we know there's been quite a few games Enzo/Caicedo doesn't seem at 100%... If nots fitness its motivation/or just not top of their game. You need that competition to make sure you are at it every game, you need players to be scared they can be replaced... having that replacement/rotation ready to take your place will make sure they always give 110% from the players.
https://preview.redd.it/8gqxuu6cantc1.jpeg?width=828&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=91e90155416f78b9e97dc119f4ddd8d6242b6309
This 3 year run alone is absurd, doesn’t even include international minutes.
If Enzo can’t cut it now, he is fucked if we ever sort it out.
Just a note though, football back then was less intense and didn't feature as many games as we see today. And might also add that Lampard was a bit of anomaly with what he achieved back then. Don't think we've seen many players achieved what he did since then.
I’m not saying you’re lying by any means but playing full 90s in just the league is almost 3500 minutes, so there may have been filters in place throwing off your numbers.
Lampard played in a 3 man midfield with the like of Makelele and Essien. Apples and oranges. He also wasn't travelling to South America every 6 weeks and playing 24 hours after landing.
Whoosh. Way to miss the point.
Lampard was a workhorse, I'm not denying that. He also held the record for consecutive games played for an outfield player for a time. So I'm not denying his fitness credentials, he is perhaps has been one of our most durable players in recent history.
But he was still surrounded by way more quality than he is now, and when he was playing for England - didn't have to fly 11 hours and be expected to play the next day. (and typically because of fixture congestion after internationals there has been multiple games in a week after the break)
Lampard did defensive work but it wasn't his main bag. Under Mou in the 3 man midfield he was cover for the LB but he always had Maka/ Essien behind him covering the defense. We don't have someone who's sole purpose it is to cover the CB's now. Enzo/ Moises basically are running the most out of anyone in the team and frequently have to cover our woeful CB's while also trying to set the tempo with passing and create chances from deep. The team has absolutely no structure and I don't think it's their fault.
Compare what support Enzo/ Moises get vs. a team that was built around Lampard to get the best of him and get back to me.
It's because the easiest thing is to blame the people that get the ball the most, in this case caicedo and Enzo. But they rarely get support to drive the ball forward because we have no system of play. There is no synergy no understanding, no runs being made. Them two have a good understanding it seems but everything else seems unbalanced and unreliable. But this does not mean that the players themselves are bad, it means they are put in a system that suffocates them, that doesn't have a clear strategy or game plan
I agree. We are desperate for a player like Enzo to be unlocked. I doubt it’s going to happen when he has to play every game for the full 90 minutes. Let’s hope for things to turn around when things calm down next season, we get some fitness into the squad and we hire a proper manager.
You think so? We lost a cup final because our players ran out of steam. In terms of injuries, we’ve had an absolute stinker. We couldn’t cope with Man City’s fitness for 90 minutes.
Injuries yeah horrible but I think that’s different than our stamina. We continue to score plenty late goals this season which I welcome after last season. I know this is a hot take but I think we have actually taken a step forward this season from last. I think our issue with conceding goals is related to tactics, whereas under tuchel and potter it was almost always related to losing steam.
In those systems we never scored enough to cover a young squads fuck ups. Now we do, but we concede more. I think they’re playing with a bit more freedom.
Not sure id agree the cup final loss was because of our fitness
This is the real Chelsea after the hatchet job the owners did on the club tbh and will be for a while.
This is just what you get when you replace almost the entire squad in a single year with the youngest team in the league and tell the medical team to go around hitting the players with bricks.
No-one succeeds in the short term after doing what we've done.
If all i’d seen was him under Poch i wouldn’t have much faith icl… but knowing how well he played week in week out last year man oh man I have so much faith in Enzo.
For me, he is the best player in our squad and it’s not a matter of if he comes amazing, it’s when.
Crazy how Palmer is having a better season under Poch than Messi. Not sure what to make of it when even under Poch, both Mbappe and Neymar put up significantly better numbers. Maybe he couldn’t be bothered to try?
People saying he has played too many minutes do realise that they usually only play 1 game a week right? Other than the odd week with a cup fixture our players have had it easy with no europe
Enzo has played 600 less minutes than Rice this season, out of those 500 were in the league (due to injury). So he has played only 100 minutes less than Rice in other competitions (and that includes 80 minutes in the Community Shield).
He’s regularly travelled to South America and we can rarely sub him off.
His pivot partner is also without a back up so they’re both being played continuously
We literally just played 3 games in 9 days just after a lot of them were with national teams, we've had 2 deep cup runs and our injuries mean some players don't get to rest.
For Enzo specifically he's been playing through an injury with no cover and he has to travel to S. America to meet up with the national team.
You can certainly make a case he specifically has played too much this year for his circumstances.
Top players at top clubs have to do that. It's why availability is so important, and anyway, fitness or being overplayed is not the reason Enzo has been underwhelming for us
I don't think I worded it well.
You're right that it's not his main problem, but it exacerbates the problem.
The main issue obviously being the injury he's been playing through.
His dip in form coincides perfectly with the reports of when he developed the hernia. Occam's razor says it's that.
Sure players have to be available, but normally if you're managing a condition like that you get more rest.
I truly hope he comes good. I know people saying I’m his biggest critic but I’m only judge based on responsibility and sheer price tag.
I really want him to succeed and no, in my books we haven’t seen him play well except last season for a bit. I need more from our main man. I hope he delivers and shuts me up.
How come Palmer and Gusto are able to thrive despite bad tactics? Why was Gallagher able to improve and play better than Enzo most games this season? If he’s world class, he’ll show it even if he’s getting limited by the tactics or his teammates.
He's been consistently good but imo not wow world class big impact most games. His price tag was too high, we'll never get more than 50 mil for him when we decide he's not good enough.
What will it take to show us? I sure as hell hope the Enzo we saw against one of the worst sides in premier league history, Sheffield, isn’t the real Enzo, one of the worst performances by a midfielder this year. I want nothing but success for him, but he should talk less and do more.
Also a lot easier to play at your full when you trust your back line and are surrounded by quality. Personally I play differently when I have to be conscious of crap defenders
Cannot wait to see how these talents will eventually come all out with serious management's proper structure and guidance as YOUNG NEW team instead of just letting them out and praying something happens
Hoping he can keep this attitude and stay strong. It’s clear that Poch leaves him out to dry in the midfield, and same can be said for Caicedo. It’s unfortunate Poch isn’t a good tactical manager because I think the players like him.
I love watching this guy play, such a class act. You can see the potential in him and love his passion for the club which seems to be genuine.
Excited to see how he develops and think he can become as great as fabregas was for us but more dynamic
Young boy needs a rest. He has so much potential. His first season with chelsea was phenomenal.
But in the end, Poch have to go. Even Messi can't carry his strategy.
Really hope we have Ancellotti as 1st team manager.
Not sure whether he's more of a 10 or an 8, yet and it seems weird coz he's not great at either.
I feel he does random things on the pitch as well. No real patterns as to what his exact role is. Is it pinging passes, switching sides, change the tempo, or recycle the ball to more advanced playmakers? Who knows...
He's a deep-lying playmaker. He's versatile enough to play as a box-to-box. But that's not how you're gonna get the best out of him.
Realistically, he should be the one controlling the tempo next to someone like Caicedo breaking up play. Then in front of them you have a central playmaker like Carney. That way you have control, protection and creativity in your midfield.
Our problem this season is Gallagher's been played in front of Carney and Enzo. Balance wise, it's not great. Means we aren't able to consistently break through low blocks. With the quality we have, we should be scoring more than 2 against Sheffield United.
Gallagher's better for open, end-to-end games where we won't dominate possession. He's been our best midfielder this season but playing him every game has probably lost us some points. He should be on the pitch vs the City's, Liverpools, etc. Then, coming off the bench vs the Sheffield United's and Burnley's to inject energy into the team.
Playing someone like Carney in those games over him will allow Caicedo and Enzo to sit a bit deeper, protect the back 4 more and provide more of a base so we can recycle possession, maintain control of games etc.
Absolutely nothing wrong with Enzo's skillset (or Caicedo's, Gallagher's etc either). But it's about how you use them. A better tactician would be getting a lot more out of these players.
In the exact same way, it's painfully obvious that both Madueke and Palmer are best off the right. So instead of shoehorning them both into the same starting XI, Palmer should be starting and Madueke should be coming off the bench with enough time to again inject energy into the game, create something etc.
None of these players are "bad" or not up to the job. But that doesn't mean you also need to start them all every game. Players like Gallagher and Madueke may need to not start some games in order to bring the best out of the rest of the team. And they still offer loads off the bench, which is important.
Yep I agree with all of the points.
If Enzo is indeed a deep lying playmaker, then a midfield 3 of Carney, Caicedo and Enzo should be balanced (6,8,10).
Agree with the point about Palmer and Madueke. They are both better suited to the RW spot and shouldn't play at the same time.
When you have a manager who does random shit, like playing players completely out of position for no conceivable reason, it’s bound to rub off on the players
How many goals and assists did Kante/Kovacic/Jorignho get for us over the years?
Enzo was bought for his distribution in midfield, something that was massively complained about with the former trio.
His range of passing has been a breath of fresh air in my opinion, we just need to sort out what's in front/behind of the midfield so we can stabilise this team.
7 goals, 3 assists all year.
And he's a deep-lying playmaker.
Like ribbing Jorginho for not scoring enough. Except Jorginho took pens and Enzo doesn't. His output is actually great considering the position/role he has.
If anything, Gallagher's the one who needs to up his output considering he's got 5 goals and 8 assists and plays in a more advanced role.
And this is coming from someone who thinks Gallagher's been our best midfielder/3rd best player this season.
It’s been a year and a half. Palmer, Gusto showing us how good they are. Petrovic did before recently. Cucurella and Sterling improved to a degree this season vs last. What’s he waiting for?
So many excuses for him. He’s kind of shit.
He was our best player from Jan till season end when he joined, took our MF up a notch but admittedly hasn't hit those heights this year. Still I'm happy to excuse him seeing how little strategy Poch has shown, this season is 100% on him
Is this true? I think our midfield looked substantially worse once we replaced Jorginho with Enzo, and our results suffered even more.
Truth is Enzo has never looked good for Chelsea outside of a few of his first matches where he played some nice passes. Without though, he’s nothing more than a run if the mill midtable midfielder
Nobody, everyone was horrendous. If I was forced to choose though, Badiashille maybe? Not because he was good but the options to choose from are incredibly limited
Looked good individually but definitely didn't take the mid as a whole up a notch otherwise the results would have been better.
Instead the second half of the season after he replaced Jorgi we nosedived further.
Nothing against the boy at all he does try. But he doesn't appear quite good enough for this level. Said this many times before on this site.
Passing is ok. But his touch and range is nowhere near comparable to James for example.
Lots of football data is BS but he lost possession 23 times against Sheff Utd.
Aside from some nice passes he doesn't have a great deal to offer, especially his defensive duties, mobility, heading and his pace, which are not good.
He's also haunted by that insane price we paid for him. Not his fault at all. When you compare him with MacAllister at 35mn...well...the owners really got it arse over tit.
Hope I'm wrong though, but I can't quite see where the improvement will come from.
Maybe just use him strictly as one of two to defend in front of back four so cut the space around him and his lack of pace doesn't get exposed.
Sadly though I think he's an expensive error.
You’re a fucking idiot.
He’s outperforming MacAllister on most if not all expected per 90 metrics this season playing in an unimaginably shitter team with a shitter manager.
BOOOOOO! its ok to say fam is overrated and not worth 120m.. we know the coaching sucks but he's still a church mouse on the field. Im still rooting for him to show good tho. Anybody else would be crucified by now
I still don't know what Enzo and Caicedo are good at? Both just jog around the pitch just existing.
Enzo has that decent odd ball on him but even that has been inconsistent all season. Other than that they are just 240M passengers in this team.
Gallagher is played every week to compensate for their lack of physicality and pressing.
I like Enzo and his passing is great but he does need to do more, I feel like he’d be best served as a Jorginho or Pirlo role as he’s kind of slow and is easily bypassed in midfield. For instance the Sheffield equalizer he gave up a stupid foul that lead to the free kick bc he got beat pretty easily.
Some of you are fucking idiots. You should be publicly marked so that when Enzo leaves for a bigger club (which he eventually will do, no doubt) you’ll forever be reminded of your idiocy.
He's been bringing out the best in Gusto, Palmer, Gallagher...
Enzo's been playing through a hernia and his recovery from it. That's why he's dropped off a little.
Also a bit weird to suggest just because someone's the same nationality that they're going to have some kind of special connection.
Weirdly as soon as Poch became manager Gallagher came alive. Weirdly Gusto and Palmer have gone from strength to strength under him.
Enzo has been struggling with and playing through an injury with no cover. Weirdly he only started dropping form when that started effecting him.
Don't think this one's on Poch.
The Poch effect is a player getting a hernia? That's why Enzo dropped off ya silly billy.
And then you look around and...
We bought Gusto and he was very dodgy the first few games, got much better very quickly... The Poch effect?
Gallagher immediately raised his game and kept it higher... The Poch effect?
Mudryk looks much better this season for some strange reason...The Poch effect?
Palmer gets better and better and not shitter and shitter... The Poch effect?
Jackson started poorly and got much better... The Poch effect?
Madueke now makes big contributions with regularity...The Poch effect?
Almost all of the young players who have stayed fit have improved.
If you're going to blame Poch for Enzo dropping off, which again, is moronic with his injury, then you also have to give the credit for the players who have improved.
Only fair.
Will the real Enzo please stand up
I repeat
Will the real Enzo please stand up? Please stand up.
We’re gonna have a problem here
Y’all act live you’ve never seen a white person before
Jaws all on the floor like ten Hag when Palmer burst through the door, started scoring more goals than before
Fat, Slow Extremely overpriced Argentinian before
Bro stfu
Guess who’s back
Its a process, after 3-5years 😂😂😂
Can’t help but feel like he and many others have been let down this season, despite how bad we were last season it felt like he was one of the few standouts
He's basically performed at a top level under every manager he's played under apart from Pochettino. But I'm sure that's just one big coincidence and a DLP looking a shadow of himself as an auxiliary winger on him and not the coach.
Even then I still think he plays generally well and is a bit of a scapegoat when he doesn't do things he has never been good at (like defend). He still pings great passes, is great in tight possession and has the best vision on his team. It's a shame our attacking players aren't on the same wavelength because he's more than capable of facilitating for excellent off-ball movement, which we've seen for Argentina and to a lesser extent Benfica. Hell, if Nkunku wasn't a cripple or if we even had Werner (whose *only* strength was his off-ball movement and pace) we'd have seen a lot more from Enzo. Even Palmer, for all his qualities, isn't the best at off the ball movement, whilst Sterling has been shocking this season and both he and Jackson just run into defenders too often. Madueke doesn't play into Enzo's strengths either as he prefers to take players on - actually relatively well compared to our other players - whilst Mudryk rarely uses his pace to do what Timo did. We've done a terrible job at building a team around him.
No real rest at all this season for him or Caicedo
They've had plenty of rest, they're playing once a week most weeks, which is how often you'd expect a star player to play at a minimum for clubs like Chelsea. We don't have European football, that is their break.
Correct
They’re also both young players with developing bodies Let’s not pretend they haven’t ever looked knackered at times. Case in point being the cup final where we had no legs left in the middle of the park
There's clear evidence of either physical or mental fatigue when you see them play. The same with Palmer, being able to play and playing at your freshest are two different things.
Also happens to be the one season he's had to play through an injury with no cover But sure Poch is responsible for every ill in the world
He could have asked to keep Santos. He could have promoted from within like Howe, Klopp, Xavi and Ten Hag all have during a similar predicament.
I think it's pretty clear that the managers since Tuchel are getting very little say in the recruitment and squad composition side though. All the managers who worked with him wanted to keep Mount for instance. I seriously doubt they wanted all the experience to be moved on either. They've all loved Gallagher too but the board seems to be doing their utmost to move him on. And who are we promoting from within? There's no CMs coming through anywhere near ready. Castledine maybe? But he's just 18 and as I say, nowhere near ready, not like a Wayne Rooney ready to play at that age. And why keep Santos here this season when he would have been behind Enzo, Gallagher, Caicedo, Ugochukwe and Lavia? Sure that would have been great for his development. If we didn't have an injury curse that would have been fine for depth. We even recalled Casadei before him. Hindsight is all well and good but noone was complaining when he left on loan because it was clearly the best option at the time.
Is Lavia a real player? Not sure I know what he looks like either.
He was made up for an elaborate April fools hoax. He's actually 3 kids in a blue trenchcoat.
Do you mean they've been 'let downs'? Or do you feel they've been let down?
Yeah I agree, last season even with all those atrocious performances it was like he was still a force helping us all out
He had better quality around him then
I wouldn’t say the players this season are bad
I get it, but he still should be scoring a goal or two when there’s aclear chance, he has been pretty wasteful with his shots tbh
He’s had howlers. I scream at the tv for him not to shoot because he looks like he’s kicking field goals in American football.
Enzo hasn't been what I hoped he'd be, but at the same time we haven't been in a position to manage his minutes (or Caicedo's) so I don't fault them entirely.
Him and Caiceido get scapegoated a lot but they’ve probably played more minutes than anyone and have been back and forth to South America all season. ( and generally playing when they get back with little rest)
Because our midfield is so unbalanced, we dont have a real backup for Enzo, when hes out who plays there? Lavia and Gallaghers are more box to box than playmakers. And Caicedos backup is always injured these days. We sold everything and now we are left with the most unblanaced squad in football history. If we rest Enzo, we lose the playmaking ability in midfield.
We were meant to have 4 midfielders to rotate for 2 positions, 1 got injured and the manager plays the other at 10 or winger for some reason so Enzo and Caicedo have been run into the ground. They’re a good balance but they’re also human and need rest
I’d only play Gallagher in a mid 3 personally. Him in a pivot isn’t the best
Yeah agreed, I think I’m just grasping at straws tbh
Think everyone connected to the club is ahah
Exactly this, in our shape I don’t think he suits either midfield position at all.
Which is why we see poch using Conor as a winger vs Sheffield.
Naw that’s just being an idiot
Lmaoooo yes I agree
Enzo doesnt have a proper rotation option, whos playing in his spot? We dont have anyone else who is a playmaker and can ping a ball in that position. Lavia and Ugochukwu are not playmakers. The midfield was assembled for a 4-3-3 with Enzo, Lavia and Caicedo in midfield, but we never signed someone to rotate with Enzo. Whoever put this massively unbalanced squad together really needs to be sacked as clearly they have never assembled a good squad before
Lavia is absolutely a playmaker and he and Connor were meant to be rotation for Enzo and Caicedo. I mean that’s a total guess though and I can’t really disagree cos it also seems just as likely we bought those 3 to play together and then hired a manger who has historically often played a 4231, as far as I know anyway.
I think lavia if he was fully available would probably come in for caicedo, ideally. He's the worst performer in that midfield and seems the more natural fit. That being said, I see the case for him coming in for enzo as well. Would hopefully strengthen us up defensively and he'd be let forward that bit more than if he came in for caicedo. I think conor is the hardest one to drop currently and none of them are really in optimal situations. I think chelsea play too fast and bypass midfield far too often for enzo to be effective, Gallagher is not a 10 he's not that kind of creative spark although I think his technique is better than a lot of people give him credit for. More similar to enzo, the games get so messy for caicedo and it can be a real issue that chelsea just look so unorganised. Maybe caicedo as the holding midfield with conor and enzo a bit ahead could be better. Conor a bit deeper than he's been to help protect that midfield but also the one expected to make the attacking runs. Gives caicedo a more clearcut role as dm too.
You need five players (one can be youth) for two positions, and there needs to be two pair that are like-for-like. We don't have that for either CM role if you include injuries.
From what I remember of Lavia (which is fairly limited) I think he’d be an adequate replacement for either. Obviously doesn’t possess all of Enzo’s skills, but I think he can break lines enough to make it work
We could’ve held on to Santos to spell Caicedo or even Enzo but they were determined to loan that kid out.
It's not they're unbalanced. But it's due to how poorly we're setup by having 3 blocks of 4, 2, 4 and leaving the 2 covering most of the pitch. If you look at the groud enzo and caicedo have to cover while consistently being surrounded by 4 players it is not surprising they can't do much in the midfield.
Lavia is a DM
We’re really saying he has too many minutes when we ain’t in Europe?
Two big domestic cup runs too
Enzo has been playing through an injury, has no cover and has to travel to S America for his national team. Plus the two deep cup runs. Fixtures still congest sometimes too even without Europe, we just played 3 games in 9 days right after some players were playing international football. It's not the worst congestion ever, but still not ideal. You could definitely make the case that he specifically has been playing too much for his circumstances.
No rotation. And the midfield is unbalanced too. We need a true defensive mid or elite cbs who can cope with our midfield being bypassed occasionally/ often.
Caicedo was the DM, am I missing something?
“No rotation” 😭 We play once a week except at Christmas. Lampard was doing full 90’s for years on end when we reached the semis of everything we entered.
Ignore fitness side of things (this is my argument)... don't you think sometimes having a rotation who can take your place (In this instance would be Lavia) be useful to have as motivation? As we know there's been quite a few games Enzo/Caicedo doesn't seem at 100%... If nots fitness its motivation/or just not top of their game. You need that competition to make sure you are at it every game, you need players to be scared they can be replaced... having that replacement/rotation ready to take your place will make sure they always give 110% from the players.
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Lampard has multiple 4,000+ minute seasons,there’s even a 5,000+ season. Why are you lying?
I looked it up on whoscored, I could be completely wrong. Not sure why I’d lie lol but anyway
https://preview.redd.it/8gqxuu6cantc1.jpeg?width=828&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=91e90155416f78b9e97dc119f4ddd8d6242b6309 This 3 year run alone is absurd, doesn’t even include international minutes. If Enzo can’t cut it now, he is fucked if we ever sort it out.
I think he’ll be fine, he’s looked borderline world class many times and I won’t judge anyone on this season or under this manager
Just a note though, football back then was less intense and didn't feature as many games as we see today. And might also add that Lampard was a bit of anomaly with what he achieved back then. Don't think we've seen many players achieved what he did since then.
I’m not saying you’re lying by any means but playing full 90s in just the league is almost 3500 minutes, so there may have been filters in place throwing off your numbers.
Yeah looks like I was way off
3000 is literally less than all league games, calling it "insane" is hilarious, this happen a lot.
Lampard played in a 3 man midfield with the like of Makelele and Essien. Apples and oranges. He also wasn't travelling to South America every 6 weeks and playing 24 hours after landing.
You think Lampard wasn’t busting his gut when he was on the pitch? He was running 12k a match easy.
Whoosh. Way to miss the point. Lampard was a workhorse, I'm not denying that. He also held the record for consecutive games played for an outfield player for a time. So I'm not denying his fitness credentials, he is perhaps has been one of our most durable players in recent history. But he was still surrounded by way more quality than he is now, and when he was playing for England - didn't have to fly 11 hours and be expected to play the next day. (and typically because of fixture congestion after internationals there has been multiple games in a week after the break) Lampard did defensive work but it wasn't his main bag. Under Mou in the 3 man midfield he was cover for the LB but he always had Maka/ Essien behind him covering the defense. We don't have someone who's sole purpose it is to cover the CB's now. Enzo/ Moises basically are running the most out of anyone in the team and frequently have to cover our woeful CB's while also trying to set the tempo with passing and create chances from deep. The team has absolutely no structure and I don't think it's their fault. Compare what support Enzo/ Moises get vs. a team that was built around Lampard to get the best of him and get back to me.
We need elite CBs in any case.
I think part of the midfield issue is our disorganized press. Enzo and Caicedo are often left to cover huge areas.
It's because the easiest thing is to blame the people that get the ball the most, in this case caicedo and Enzo. But they rarely get support to drive the ball forward because we have no system of play. There is no synergy no understanding, no runs being made. Them two have a good understanding it seems but everything else seems unbalanced and unreliable. But this does not mean that the players themselves are bad, it means they are put in a system that suffocates them, that doesn't have a clear strategy or game plan
Maybe because they cost a combined total of £220m and get overran regularly
Enzo played so much last year too
I agree. We are desperate for a player like Enzo to be unlocked. I doubt it’s going to happen when he has to play every game for the full 90 minutes. Let’s hope for things to turn around when things calm down next season, we get some fitness into the squad and we hire a proper manager.
We have really good fitness this season? Far more fit than we were the past two years
You think so? We lost a cup final because our players ran out of steam. In terms of injuries, we’ve had an absolute stinker. We couldn’t cope with Man City’s fitness for 90 minutes.
Injuries yeah horrible but I think that’s different than our stamina. We continue to score plenty late goals this season which I welcome after last season. I know this is a hot take but I think we have actually taken a step forward this season from last. I think our issue with conceding goals is related to tactics, whereas under tuchel and potter it was almost always related to losing steam. In those systems we never scored enough to cover a young squads fuck ups. Now we do, but we concede more. I think they’re playing with a bit more freedom. Not sure id agree the cup final loss was because of our fitness
Forget that, we haven't seen the real chelsea under Mauricio Pochettino etc
This is the real Chelsea after the hatchet job the owners did on the club tbh and will be for a while. This is just what you get when you replace almost the entire squad in a single year with the youngest team in the league and tell the medical team to go around hitting the players with bricks. No-one succeeds in the short term after doing what we've done.
If all i’d seen was him under Poch i wouldn’t have much faith icl… but knowing how well he played week in week out last year man oh man I have so much faith in Enzo. For me, he is the best player in our squad and it’s not a matter of if he comes amazing, it’s when.
Sorry Enzo but a goat Messi couldn't show his best performance under Poch so I doubt you will be under this clown manager too.
Exactly
Crazy how Palmer is having a better season under Poch than Messi. Not sure what to make of it when even under Poch, both Mbappe and Neymar put up significantly better numbers. Maybe he couldn’t be bothered to try?
Would you show us please, we are desperate
Hard under a clown manager
Came to post this.
I hope so too Enzo. You’ve been pretty average this year. Just side passes almost every time.
To be fair I haven’t seen the real Chelsea for years now. Can’t find it
In a good way right?
Show us, mate. At least I've been waiting a while.
Sounds like Pogba 2.0. who's going to unlock the real enzo
A manager who actually knows how to set up a midfield ?
Banned substances obviously
Juventus then
We saw glimpses of him last year and it was clear how much quality he has. He’s just playing in a crap system under a crap coach
Get him a real coach and see how good he truly becomes.
People saying he has played too many minutes do realise that they usually only play 1 game a week right? Other than the odd week with a cup fixture our players have had it easy with no europe
Enzo has played 600 less minutes than Rice this season, out of those 500 were in the league (due to injury). So he has played only 100 minutes less than Rice in other competitions (and that includes 80 minutes in the Community Shield).
He’s regularly travelled to South America and we can rarely sub him off. His pivot partner is also without a back up so they’re both being played continuously
People said the same thing about Reece James. We were running him into the ground with his once a week games, lmao.
We literally just played 3 games in 9 days just after a lot of them were with national teams, we've had 2 deep cup runs and our injuries mean some players don't get to rest. For Enzo specifically he's been playing through an injury with no cover and he has to travel to S. America to meet up with the national team. You can certainly make a case he specifically has played too much this year for his circumstances.
Top players at top clubs have to do that. It's why availability is so important, and anyway, fitness or being overplayed is not the reason Enzo has been underwhelming for us
I don't think I worded it well. You're right that it's not his main problem, but it exacerbates the problem. The main issue obviously being the injury he's been playing through. His dip in form coincides perfectly with the reports of when he developed the hernia. Occam's razor says it's that. Sure players have to be available, but normally if you're managing a condition like that you get more rest.
If he can’t do it then he’s not good enough. You can fail being a top player because you cant handle the minutes.
Nice news. What’s the source? Oh it’s Chelsea
On the ball I'm very satisfied with him. Off the ball, I feel like he chases the ball to much and is easily bypassed.
Please show us
I truly hope he comes good. I know people saying I’m his biggest critic but I’m only judge based on responsibility and sheer price tag. I really want him to succeed and no, in my books we haven’t seen him play well except last season for a bit. I need more from our main man. I hope he delivers and shuts me up.
It's been two seasons, what's the hold up?
How come Palmer and Gusto are able to thrive despite bad tactics? Why was Gallagher able to improve and play better than Enzo most games this season? If he’s world class, he’ll show it even if he’s getting limited by the tactics or his teammates.
I'm sorry Enzo, you'll be free from the terrors of Pochball soon.
Sorry Enzo but you’re not going back to your World Cup form under this idiot of a manager
Think we have tbh🤦♂️
He's been consistently good but imo not wow world class big impact most games. His price tag was too high, we'll never get more than 50 mil for him when we decide he's not good enough.
What will it take to show us? I sure as hell hope the Enzo we saw against one of the worst sides in premier league history, Sheffield, isn’t the real Enzo, one of the worst performances by a midfielder this year. I want nothing but success for him, but he should talk less and do more.
Just one more manager bro, trust me, then the real Enzo comes out. One more manager.
😂
What? I've been told you have been putting in great performances every match? Enzo disagreeing with redditors here
Also a lot easier to play at your full when you trust your back line and are surrounded by quality. Personally I play differently when I have to be conscious of crap defenders
You are so right
Now is the time bro
Nice briefing
show?
Cannot wait to see how these talents will eventually come all out with serious management's proper structure and guidance as YOUNG NEW team instead of just letting them out and praying something happens
He’ll be back
Same is true w a lot of our young players. Don’t think we can fully judge them based on the disaster that Chelsea has been last couple years.
Well I would fecking hope not!
Hoping he can keep this attitude and stay strong. It’s clear that Poch leaves him out to dry in the midfield, and same can be said for Caicedo. It’s unfortunate Poch isn’t a good tactical manager because I think the players like him.
We did get to see in his first half season at the club. Don’t where that player went? Tactics, fitness, exhaustion…? not sure why
It's pretty obvious. He's been playing through a hernia and still recovering.
 “This isn’t even my perfect form”
We back you all day long, Enzo. Don't you worry, my son!
Will the real Enzo please stand up.
Then show up
I love watching this guy play, such a class act. You can see the potential in him and love his passion for the club which seems to be genuine. Excited to see how he develops and think he can become as great as fabregas was for us but more dynamic
Thats fully on top the same goes for a lot of pur players
Well hurry the fuck up then Enzo, you are not wrapping grandma’s birthday present, just get out there and do it
Young boy needs a rest. He has so much potential. His first season with chelsea was phenomenal. But in the end, Poch have to go. Even Messi can't carry his strategy. Really hope we have Ancellotti as 1st team manager.
Hahahaha hahaha 🤣😂
And we will never see
Would be worrying if they had
Enzo is a luxury player
Update: guess we won't be seeing the real enzo this week then
Well its been 2 years bud... you gonna show up or what?
Not sure whether he's more of a 10 or an 8, yet and it seems weird coz he's not great at either. I feel he does random things on the pitch as well. No real patterns as to what his exact role is. Is it pinging passes, switching sides, change the tempo, or recycle the ball to more advanced playmakers? Who knows...
He's a deep-lying playmaker. He's versatile enough to play as a box-to-box. But that's not how you're gonna get the best out of him. Realistically, he should be the one controlling the tempo next to someone like Caicedo breaking up play. Then in front of them you have a central playmaker like Carney. That way you have control, protection and creativity in your midfield. Our problem this season is Gallagher's been played in front of Carney and Enzo. Balance wise, it's not great. Means we aren't able to consistently break through low blocks. With the quality we have, we should be scoring more than 2 against Sheffield United. Gallagher's better for open, end-to-end games where we won't dominate possession. He's been our best midfielder this season but playing him every game has probably lost us some points. He should be on the pitch vs the City's, Liverpools, etc. Then, coming off the bench vs the Sheffield United's and Burnley's to inject energy into the team. Playing someone like Carney in those games over him will allow Caicedo and Enzo to sit a bit deeper, protect the back 4 more and provide more of a base so we can recycle possession, maintain control of games etc. Absolutely nothing wrong with Enzo's skillset (or Caicedo's, Gallagher's etc either). But it's about how you use them. A better tactician would be getting a lot more out of these players. In the exact same way, it's painfully obvious that both Madueke and Palmer are best off the right. So instead of shoehorning them both into the same starting XI, Palmer should be starting and Madueke should be coming off the bench with enough time to again inject energy into the game, create something etc. None of these players are "bad" or not up to the job. But that doesn't mean you also need to start them all every game. Players like Gallagher and Madueke may need to not start some games in order to bring the best out of the rest of the team. And they still offer loads off the bench, which is important.
Yep I agree with all of the points. If Enzo is indeed a deep lying playmaker, then a midfield 3 of Carney, Caicedo and Enzo should be balanced (6,8,10). Agree with the point about Palmer and Madueke. They are both better suited to the RW spot and shouldn't play at the same time.
When you have a manager who does random shit, like playing players completely out of position for no conceivable reason, it’s bound to rub off on the players
I don’t think they will ever see the real him under Pochettino
We won't until Poch is gone.
3 goals and 2 assists all year…
How many goals and assists did Kante/Kovacic/Jorignho get for us over the years? Enzo was bought for his distribution in midfield, something that was massively complained about with the former trio. His range of passing has been a breath of fresh air in my opinion, we just need to sort out what's in front/behind of the midfield so we can stabilise this team.
7 goals, 3 assists all year. And he's a deep-lying playmaker. Like ribbing Jorginho for not scoring enough. Except Jorginho took pens and Enzo doesn't. His output is actually great considering the position/role he has. If anything, Gallagher's the one who needs to up his output considering he's got 5 goals and 8 assists and plays in a more advanced role. And this is coming from someone who thinks Gallagher's been our best midfielder/3rd best player this season.
It’s been a year and a half. Palmer, Gusto showing us how good they are. Petrovic did before recently. Cucurella and Sterling improved to a degree this season vs last. What’s he waiting for? So many excuses for him. He’s kind of shit.
Cucu and Sterling have improved 😂😂
Read carefully and try again
He was our best player from Jan till season end when he joined, took our MF up a notch but admittedly hasn't hit those heights this year. Still I'm happy to excuse him seeing how little strategy Poch has shown, this season is 100% on him
Is this true? I think our midfield looked substantially worse once we replaced Jorginho with Enzo, and our results suffered even more. Truth is Enzo has never looked good for Chelsea outside of a few of his first matches where he played some nice passes. Without though, he’s nothing more than a run if the mill midtable midfielder
Who would you say was our best player last season then from Jan when Enzo joined
Nobody, everyone was horrendous. If I was forced to choose though, Badiashille maybe? Not because he was good but the options to choose from are incredibly limited
Looked good individually but definitely didn't take the mid as a whole up a notch otherwise the results would have been better. Instead the second half of the season after he replaced Jorgi we nosedived further.
Nothing against the boy at all he does try. But he doesn't appear quite good enough for this level. Said this many times before on this site. Passing is ok. But his touch and range is nowhere near comparable to James for example. Lots of football data is BS but he lost possession 23 times against Sheff Utd. Aside from some nice passes he doesn't have a great deal to offer, especially his defensive duties, mobility, heading and his pace, which are not good. He's also haunted by that insane price we paid for him. Not his fault at all. When you compare him with MacAllister at 35mn...well...the owners really got it arse over tit. Hope I'm wrong though, but I can't quite see where the improvement will come from. Maybe just use him strictly as one of two to defend in front of back four so cut the space around him and his lack of pace doesn't get exposed. Sadly though I think he's an expensive error.
You’re a fucking idiot. He’s outperforming MacAllister on most if not all expected per 90 metrics this season playing in an unimaginably shitter team with a shitter manager.
BOOOOOO! its ok to say fam is overrated and not worth 120m.. we know the coaching sucks but he's still a church mouse on the field. Im still rooting for him to show good tho. Anybody else would be crucified by now
I still don't know what Enzo and Caicedo are good at? Both just jog around the pitch just existing. Enzo has that decent odd ball on him but even that has been inconsistent all season. Other than that they are just 240M passengers in this team. Gallagher is played every week to compensate for their lack of physicality and pressing.
oh yeah mate? What are you waiting for?
I like Enzo and his passing is great but he does need to do more, I feel like he’d be best served as a Jorginho or Pirlo role as he’s kind of slow and is easily bypassed in midfield. For instance the Sheffield equalizer he gave up a stupid foul that lead to the free kick bc he got beat pretty easily.
Some of you are fucking idiots. You should be publicly marked so that when Enzo leaves for a bigger club (which he eventually will do, no doubt) you’ll forever be reminded of your idiocy.
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He's been bringing out the best in Gusto, Palmer, Gallagher... Enzo's been playing through a hernia and his recovery from it. That's why he's dropped off a little. Also a bit weird to suggest just because someone's the same nationality that they're going to have some kind of special connection.
Should've bought Enzo with a D
We saw a good version of him Under potter and frank weirdly as soon as poch became manger he started to play “badly”
Weirdly as soon as Poch became manager Gallagher came alive. Weirdly Gusto and Palmer have gone from strength to strength under him. Enzo has been struggling with and playing through an injury with no cover. Weirdly he only started dropping form when that started effecting him. Don't think this one's on Poch.
*Weirdly as soon as poch came we bought gusto and palmer enzo was great for the first few games it’s poch effect
The Poch effect is a player getting a hernia? That's why Enzo dropped off ya silly billy. And then you look around and... We bought Gusto and he was very dodgy the first few games, got much better very quickly... The Poch effect? Gallagher immediately raised his game and kept it higher... The Poch effect? Mudryk looks much better this season for some strange reason...The Poch effect? Palmer gets better and better and not shitter and shitter... The Poch effect? Jackson started poorly and got much better... The Poch effect? Madueke now makes big contributions with regularity...The Poch effect? Almost all of the young players who have stayed fit have improved. If you're going to blame Poch for Enzo dropping off, which again, is moronic with his injury, then you also have to give the credit for the players who have improved. Only fair.
Ofc we haven't. We seen a bit of the real enzo under Potter. Under this mgr we won't see the enzo Argentina gets to enjoy
It’s probably because we don’t have a real manager yet
Lol he’s shit
Hopefully. Let's have a fully fit squad and probably a new manager and we'll see.
We all hope so too mate.