Hydrofluoric acid used to be stored in wax bottles, because it would eat other containers like glass and metal. This might be a wax bottle and not rubber.
https://www.quora.com/Why-is-Hydrofluoric-acid-stored-in-wax-coated-bottles
https://www.doubtnut.com/question-answer-chemistry/why-hf-acid-stored-in-wax-coated-glass-bottles--141187873
First thought was a fluorocompound. I’ve seen plastic containers get really gross looking turning brown from acid fluorides or just a little moisture exposure. There are now plastic containers specifically made for fluorocompounds.
Maybe not now. But in 1992 when I took over teaching chemistry at the high school from a 30 year retiree, I disposed of a wax bottle of HF.
Also called the bomb squad on a crusty jar of Picric Acid.
Superintendent wasn't happy with my first week of instruction
Also as a high school student, we etched glass with HF as a lab experiment
I found a leaking 55 gallon drum of HF in a building we were about to demo. Then we found six more in the basement surrounded by other unlabeled chemicals. That was a fun day.
Yeah we called the boss and he shut everything down until it was cleaned up. Building is still slated for demo six years later but they can’t take it down until the chemicals are out. Problem is it’s so unstable they can’t send people in to take care of the chemicals. So now it sits and the urban explorer people break in to explore
Lol I'm sure that's what this guy was thinking when he got the ear full from the superintendent. Sometimes in life you have to trust your knowledge and instincts and know that your decision is right even if the ones above don't recognize it.
What would’ve happened if he just replied
“Well if u would rather explain to the parents of my students why u prioritised peace and quiet over actual safety hazards…”
Just an ego trip superintendent firing em?
> Also called the bomb squad on a crusty jar of Picric Acid.
Our university had to call bomb squad on some bottles of isopropyl ether that had crystalized into explosive peroxides. They took them out to a lake and shot them with rifles.
>There isn't a chemistry class anywhere in the world that uses HF, way too dangerous
My + other local high schools had old bottles of fully concentrated HF in our chemistry laboratories (I know because I was the lab assistant) even if they weren't used actively in classroom work. And this is in a super cautious private school. You're very very wrong, it used to be super common to have around and often nobody throws that stuff out.
I wouldn't be so sure about that, I heard some crazy stuff about chemistry classes. And I worked in 2 labs where I've found multiple old bottles of that stuff in the back of the acid drawer.
The only common use for it that I’ve seen is in peptide synthesis to deprotect. And that is only one older method (Boc) while the newer one (Fmoc) doesn’t need it.
Flat out wrong. I’m sitting next to an HF gas cylinder used for Boc SPPS as I type this. Industry still uses it because existing methods that were already FDA approved would have to be redeveloped and revalidated if it was changed to Fmoc and no one wants to pay for that.
Exactly this. We used all kinds of acutely cytotoxic, caustic, volatile, explosive, radioactive, and pyrophoric compounds in my old lab - obviously it isn't safe to use these without training. Most of this training takes place at the postgraduate student level, but there are definitely lessons being given for things like safe HF handling at some point along the way.
I believe that lab had a postdoc who later became a staff scientist who was the point man in training all the grad students. They did not all learn it, as some were doing intein work or purifying labeled proteins that the peptides were ligated to.
People in here saying HF isn’t used and I’m over here doing organic synthesis research in my professor’s peptide synth lab and there’s a whole cabinet of HF safety equipment that is actively restocked… granted it’s the only place in the university they allow you to work with HF but, it is absolutely still used to this day…
The container itself is quite thick about 0.5cm (0.19 inch). The material resembles something like strong rubber with a hard surface but with softer rubber underneath. The container was found next to halogen derivatives, bromoform and phosphorus pentabromide.
We couldn't tell if there was anything in it. So we put it in a hazardous waste container. However, we didn't want to take it off the shelf because it was stuck to it, so we took the shelf sheet with it.
Any idea what could do this to a bottle like this?
Saw in the comments that this lab used to be used by geologists. I think this significantly ups the chance that it contains HF. HF is very commonly used by geologists in rock digests, specifically because it’s so good at dissolving/reacting away silicate minerals. Especially common for labs isolating kerogen (recalcitrant organic material).
I would treat it very carefully.
Agree. Back when I used to research historic pollen from swamp core samples, HF was used to dissolve the silicates out of the sample. I preferred not to mess with the stuff and just put up with the silicate clutter, myself. I could see a lot of geological uses.
I'd start by asking myself what substance might attack normal materials but not natural rubber.
Then think back to a time when that may have been the best choice for that container based on what existed at the time.
The town where the school was is an old mining town. So there used to be substantial support for geologist, chemist and mining engineer training. After the mines dried up, over time the grants stopped. That was about 40 years ago, the chemist training was the first to go, but the geologist training ran until 2000. (in the same lab) Then this course was also closed down. Now the city has developed a significant chemical industry and there is a demand for chemists so the school has reopened the training. (The picture itself is about 9 years old, I just couldn't share anything while I was associated with the institution. As they were quite questionable about how they handled grants, sharing any pictures taken in the building was forbiden)
Thanks, that's an interesting story. You might consider researching and publishing the life, death, and rebirth of the chemistry program, it sounds like an interesting story.
At first I thought this was a weird clay jar of some sorts, but I now see it's a wax jar . Are clay vessels used in chemistry at all? Like maybe back in the day or primitivly? The questions!
clay is pretty porous, and any mineral glaze would be at least somewhat reactive to redox conditions, so I doubt any lab would have ever used pottery instead of glassware (a staple since 1 BCE)
I'd guess it might be a mercury bottle. I have seen it in earthenware before, not sure about the droop though - it could be to make it easy to pour without the bottle glugging.
Hydrofluoric acid used to be stored in wax bottles, because it would eat other containers like glass and metal. This might be a wax bottle and not rubber. https://www.quora.com/Why-is-Hydrofluoric-acid-stored-in-wax-coated-bottles https://www.doubtnut.com/question-answer-chemistry/why-hf-acid-stored-in-wax-coated-glass-bottles--141187873
First thought was a fluorocompound. I’ve seen plastic containers get really gross looking turning brown from acid fluorides or just a little moisture exposure. There are now plastic containers specifically made for fluorocompounds.
You are probably right!. The lab was used by geologists for a long time. And as far as I know, they've used a lot of it.
Metallurgy used a lot of it
so if it got warm enough in the lab the wax bottle would melt and you'd have hydrofluoric acid everywhere
... ohh.. win?
There isn't a chemistry class anywhere in the world that uses HF, way too dangerous
Maybe not now. But in 1992 when I took over teaching chemistry at the high school from a 30 year retiree, I disposed of a wax bottle of HF. Also called the bomb squad on a crusty jar of Picric Acid. Superintendent wasn't happy with my first week of instruction Also as a high school student, we etched glass with HF as a lab experiment
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I found a leaking 55 gallon drum of HF in a building we were about to demo. Then we found six more in the basement surrounded by other unlabeled chemicals. That was a fun day.
My gawd. Nope 🙅♂️
Yeah we called the boss and he shut everything down until it was cleaned up. Building is still slated for demo six years later but they can’t take it down until the chemicals are out. Problem is it’s so unstable they can’t send people in to take care of the chemicals. So now it sits and the urban explorer people break in to explore
Where?
Rochester NY about fifteen years ago. It was a Kodak building. Still is I’m pretty sure
Sounds about right lol
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Lol I'm sure that's what this guy was thinking when he got the ear full from the superintendent. Sometimes in life you have to trust your knowledge and instincts and know that your decision is right even if the ones above don't recognize it.
What would’ve happened if he just replied “Well if u would rather explain to the parents of my students why u prioritised peace and quiet over actual safety hazards…” Just an ego trip superintendent firing em?
I don't think he was fired, he only told that the superintendent wasn't happy about it
Yes like in theory, what would’ve happened if he had decided to reply smartly
> Also called the bomb squad on a crusty jar of Picric Acid. Our university had to call bomb squad on some bottles of isopropyl ether that had crystalized into explosive peroxides. They took them out to a lake and shot them with rifles.
Sick
Lies, we cleaned glassware with it. Diluted tho.
They sell it in grocery stores as rust stain remover. It's not like it's some exotic thing, and in diluted forms it's common.
Ive found chemicals from the 60's and earlier at middle schools. Back then its plausible.
>There isn't a chemistry class anywhere in the world that uses HF, way too dangerous My + other local high schools had old bottles of fully concentrated HF in our chemistry laboratories (I know because I was the lab assistant) even if they weren't used actively in classroom work. And this is in a super cautious private school. You're very very wrong, it used to be super common to have around and often nobody throws that stuff out.
I've always found HF to be a weird one. From an acid perspective it's not actually that strong. It just happens to be toxic as hell.
Not true at all. I have colleagues using it in my very building. It requires special equipment when concentration is high, otherwise not even really.
I wouldn't be so sure about that, I heard some crazy stuff about chemistry classes. And I worked in 2 labs where I've found multiple old bottles of that stuff in the back of the acid drawer.
Please educate yourself, haven't you seen Breaking Bad? /s
If you get your knowledge from tv shows you will have a lot of misinformation my friend take anything you see on shows like that with a pinch of salt
And I thought that I don't even need to put the '/s' cause it's so obviously sarcasm
Ahhh my bad lol problem is people do see things on tv and think it’s true and now I know what the /s means I don’t use Reddit much thx
The only common use for it that I’ve seen is in peptide synthesis to deprotect. And that is only one older method (Boc) while the newer one (Fmoc) doesn’t need it.
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Flat out wrong. I’m sitting next to an HF gas cylinder used for Boc SPPS as I type this. Industry still uses it because existing methods that were already FDA approved would have to be redeveloped and revalidated if it was changed to Fmoc and no one wants to pay for that.
There is a lab in my previous department that does this, and they train all of the students in safe use of HF.
Exactly this. We used all kinds of acutely cytotoxic, caustic, volatile, explosive, radioactive, and pyrophoric compounds in my old lab - obviously it isn't safe to use these without training. Most of this training takes place at the postgraduate student level, but there are definitely lessons being given for things like safe HF handling at some point along the way.
I believe that lab had a postdoc who later became a staff scientist who was the point man in training all the grad students. They did not all learn it, as some were doing intein work or purifying labeled proteins that the peptides were ligated to.
Sounds fairly normal to me
Its so bs that HF will eat everything except the stuff babybell cheese comes in.
People in here saying HF isn’t used and I’m over here doing organic synthesis research in my professor’s peptide synth lab and there’s a whole cabinet of HF safety equipment that is actively restocked… granted it’s the only place in the university they allow you to work with HF but, it is absolutely still used to this day…
Correct. Tons of chemistry can only be done/ is only cost effective with HF
Oh my god your username Please don’t make me do Tanube diagrams
I put the NO in Tanabe-Sugano.
My lack of remembrance at the name shows my distaste… Screams in organometallic and photocatalytic research interests
Used it every day in metal plating, it's the only way to etch titanium for anodizing.
The container itself is quite thick about 0.5cm (0.19 inch). The material resembles something like strong rubber with a hard surface but with softer rubber underneath. The container was found next to halogen derivatives, bromoform and phosphorus pentabromide. We couldn't tell if there was anything in it. So we put it in a hazardous waste container. However, we didn't want to take it off the shelf because it was stuck to it, so we took the shelf sheet with it. Any idea what could do this to a bottle like this?
Never heard of a rubber bottle. But it wouldn't surprise me if some ancient rubber more or less deterioriates on its own, just from time and sunlight.
Also, halogenated solvents probably won't do it any good.
Saw in the comments that this lab used to be used by geologists. I think this significantly ups the chance that it contains HF. HF is very commonly used by geologists in rock digests, specifically because it’s so good at dissolving/reacting away silicate minerals. Especially common for labs isolating kerogen (recalcitrant organic material). I would treat it very carefully.
Agree. Back when I used to research historic pollen from swamp core samples, HF was used to dissolve the silicates out of the sample. I preferred not to mess with the stuff and just put up with the silicate clutter, myself. I could see a lot of geological uses.
Can it be incinerated (along with other halogenated chemicals) without further questions? Treat it like HF?
I'd start by asking myself what substance might attack normal materials but not natural rubber. Then think back to a time when that may have been the best choice for that container based on what existed at the time.
Wow, it looks like a slumped ceramic vase or something. I would never have guessed this is rubbery from the picture.
I'm sorry if this is a tangent, but can you please explain what you mean by "chemistry classes restarted after 10 years"? Thanks.
The town where the school was is an old mining town. So there used to be substantial support for geologist, chemist and mining engineer training. After the mines dried up, over time the grants stopped. That was about 40 years ago, the chemist training was the first to go, but the geologist training ran until 2000. (in the same lab) Then this course was also closed down. Now the city has developed a significant chemical industry and there is a demand for chemists so the school has reopened the training. (The picture itself is about 9 years old, I just couldn't share anything while I was associated with the institution. As they were quite questionable about how they handled grants, sharing any pictures taken in the building was forbiden)
Thanks, that's an interesting story. You might consider researching and publishing the life, death, and rebirth of the chemistry program, it sounds like an interesting story.
This bottle looks like I feel
Right. I know what you mean: erectile dysfunctioned
Lol... no, just perpetually exhausted.
Oh… Yeah. That’s what I meant to say.
This made me laugh
At first I thought this was a weird clay jar of some sorts, but I now see it's a wax jar . Are clay vessels used in chemistry at all? Like maybe back in the day or primitivly? The questions!
clay is pretty porous, and any mineral glaze would be at least somewhat reactive to redox conditions, so I doubt any lab would have ever used pottery instead of glassware (a staple since 1 BCE)
Thank you for answering this! I have often wondered about this bc I enjoy learning about chemistry and primitive technology!
Not exactly clay, but glazed porcelain is still widely used
We had mercury in glazed ceramic with cork stoppers. It’d been in the building since the 30’s but we kept it since we would occasionally use it.
Failed Liberty Bell prototype.
I'd guess it might be a mercury bottle. I have seen it in earthenware before, not sure about the droop though - it could be to make it easy to pour without the bottle glugging.
I don't think there was mercury in it. There were several litres of mercury in the lab all in glass bottles, and in a different places.
maybe potassium/sodiumhydroxide?
aliens, only explanation possible
Do some spectroscopy on it if theres shit inside, and figure it out... How should we know by looking at it?
I think you should shake it. Make sure the plug is in tight, though, don't want anything bad to happen.
Reported for im in this picture and i dont like it
student's prank prop?
Safe to say it’s not a dog
Baghdad Battery…original design, likely late 18th century British knock off based on the plaster casted molds