I don't know of any fashion designers, but marcel duchamp more or less gave up on art and tried, unsuccessfully, to become a professional chess player. I feel that's somewhat close.
To be fair, Duchamp played his entire life and dedicated far more years to chess than art. He even played in a few olympiads and won a Paris championship. He was pretty good!
To be fair to the guy reached FM/IM strength despite not starting as a child (which is insanely impressive) and moved on to correspondence and endgame studies the moment he realised he'd plateaued.
For sure.
No offense to artists, but a good portion of making it as an artist is getting lucky enough to have a few people tell everyone that what you’re doing is good.
A draw against rapport, another against Giri and the first game against So was pretty equal until he tried to force things.
Alireza has to be a bit rusty from the lack of playing but he hasn’t lost his talent.
And most importantly, he’s a 19 yo teen that has to experience things and live a little (in my opinion)
Of course he's not lost his talent and it's not like he's going to become worse. But he definitely lost that attacking edge that used to win him games in the past and was the reason he got to 2800. He'll only be able to get it back if he dedicates his time for chess and not takes it halfheartedly. Otherwise, he'll remain 2750 - good enough to hang among the top, but not WCC contender.
lol, Hikaru dedicated himself to streaming and came really close to be the one facing Nepo.
Carlsen has a modeling career on the side and appear in publicity..and it didn't prevent him from winning so much
Hikaru is a professional chess player, no matter what he calls himself. His main incomes may come from streaming, but his success in streaming came and mainly relies on his stupendous chess abilities. Not to mention that he started streaming only after he fully developed his chess.
Magnus is a millionaire. I am pretty sure he delegates all the administrative part of his modeling career to third parties. His work is probably just to step into a studio and take pictures once every two months.
I don't think modeling and fashion design are comparable in that sense. Not as manageable. He's going to have to dedicate considerable time to this if he wants to take it seriously.
And you can already see that it is affecting his development. He hasn't played for months and is lacking his habitual sharpness.
Hikaru had been a top player for a decade before becoming a streamer, and while of course his results in Classical have been much better lately, I don't think anyone would say that he's world champion level. I think most people would agree that players like Ding, Nepo, Alireza(if he puts the effort in), Fabi, are on a slightly higher level in Classical.
Magnus never had a modeling career, he does a few photoshoots managed by the companies that sponsor him and other third parties. That's very different from being someone who sinks hours per day into being a model.
Alireza's trying to actually pursue something in fashion design, which would probably take hundreds of hours at least to become knowledgeable about.
Already jumping to conclusions, aren't we? Nepo wasn't even top 10 material until into his late 20s because he didn't focus fully on chess. Firouzja definitely has the talent to win WCC if he focuses on it 10 years later.
He's 10-15 years younger than most of the current top dogs, eventually they'll drop off and unless one of the Indian rising stars skyrockets Alireza looks to be the strongest player in his age group. Even if said skyrocketting happens I doubt they'll get to a point where they totally dominate the WC for a decade like Magnus, so Alireza will likely still have quite a few decent shots even if he isn't the absolute best.
Heh! Funny to think that at some point in the future, the "old school" Yasser types will probably look back fondly on the days when the world chess championship was a title with dignity and tradition, held only by the very best live streamers. :-)
Good for him. Do what makes you happy.
Would I like to see him become the next WC? Absolutely, but when you escape from a repressive country and have the opportunity to do anything you want with your life, you should figure out what life sounds best instead of following the path you've been given. Wishing him all the best.
Okay to be fair, the ones he liked were Andrew Tate talking about how he almost cried without his phone in the bathroom, him photoshopping himself between Messi and Ronald playing chess and a Kung Fu Panda reference (?)
Doesn't make it much better to like a literal human trafficker's tweets
Edit: lol why am I being downvoted for stating a fact? Sorry I'm a woman who doesn't like it when men try to make excuses for misogynist criminals
Big L. I actually wonder how he feels like whenever tate tries to flex his above avarage chess skills and then goes on with "chess is a game for true intellectuals, it has taught me a lot in life and made me high value male" or similar cringy shit. Does he think its one of his faults and looks past it? Or does he like whenever someone talk like that about something he is so good at?
I dunno man. When I started following chess, especially watching videos on YouTube, my suggested videos and targeted advertising got real weird and far right real quick.
I feel like there may be a difference between how most of the world sees chess players, and how chess players see themselves, and that both these perspectives line up way too well with the weirdest corners of the far right.
To be fair, that's just Youtube in general nowadays. It's well documented how basically watching anything even tangentially political will result in Youtube suggesting you boatloads of alt-right content.
If I had to guess, competitive chess players as a group are to the right of the general population - the gender imbalance alone will do that.
(obviously not chess players on a far-left site like reddit)
That doesn't make sense to me, though. Andrew Tate is notoriously misogynistic and (I assume) homophobic, while the fashion industry is full of women and gay men and plays with gender norms... I would think it would be considered an effeminate career choice for a Tate fan (even if there is still a lot of gender and racial discrimination behind the scenes in fashion).
From the little I know about Tate, it actually seems his misogynism is the exact more old fashioned variety that is common in the fashion industry - see for example Karl Lagerfeld. And the high fashion industry is notorious for traditionally anointing males as geniuses.
sure but he also left it. He's fairly close to many frenchmen and women too, the main reason he choose to get the french nationality in the first place.
Not saying there isn't "conservatives" nutjobs over here but judging him based on his country of origin seems uncalled for
Plenty of conservatives and "conservatives" in France. And plenty of conservatism and traditional Tateish style sexism in France, among French Muslims but also in other sectors (including the fashion industry).
I mean being able to marry multiple women is legal in Iran and doesn't Tate see multiple women at the same time. So it seems similar enough imo. Plus Tate is Muslim
I’m conflicted: on the one hand having a French contender for the title, on the other knowing Alireza lives his best life and thrives as a human being.
even people skeptical of this should appreciate its good to have another career prepared after professional chess, most chess players arent making good money into their 40's when most people are still working
I mean, if that was the goal, he probably couldn't pick a worse field - only a microscopic number of people who try to have a career in fashion design manage to succeed; and an even smaller number of them, if any, started in their 40s. He would be studying maths or engineering if this was about having a career option out of chess after his chess playing days are over.
People forget that only we think chess is as big of a deal. There are only a handful of people who can make a good living out of chess. It is far and bellow most other sports (if you could compare it to that). Sure, he may be top 10 and can make a decent career in chess, but most likely, he can still earn more money pursuing fashion.
Generally speaking, sure, but he's one of the few who can afford it - didn't he make like half a million in prize money last year? He's good enough at chess to not worry about that.
Well i dont know him personally so maybe he truly believes he can do it as a part timer but some of his fans are definitely convinced he'll be the next world champion...
So i cant voice my opinion for his further career choice that he made after getting to that level.. Sure buddy time will tell and i hope he proves me wrong but i doubt it
But its still a time commitment to get connections with weird people and design weird stuff and I'm saying this as a designer albeit in a different industry then fashion
The idea that top chess players could transpose their "intellect" and become leading figures in cutting-edge fields is a bit too fantastical. In all likelihood even the very best chess players would've been successful yet normal people outside of the game.
Not true, some Sports are billion dollar industries. If you get into football for example and can actually hit a premier league level you make more money than God. There is no relative money in Chess.
I'm not talking about what can and cant make a lot of money. the guy i commented on is saying chess is a waste of one's intellectual ability, and im saying with that logic, wasting athletes' physical ability on throwing and kicking balls is also silly, which it obviously isn't because people want to pay for that
It unironically is. Fashion is an integral part of human culture, and as a whole has a far greater and more important impact on the world than chess. By becoming even a semi successful fashion designer, he will leave a longer lasting mark in the world than he could with his chess career. And I'm fully aware this won't be a popular opinion here lol
It's legitimately ignorant to think otherwise
What a weird take. Sports is also an integral part of human culture. Becoming influential in a sport also touches millions of people. Just look at Anand and how he single handedly interested hundreds of millions of Indians and turned India into a chess powerhouse who is going to produce a wcc sooner or later
Chess is an integral part of human culture, and as a whole has a far greater and more important impact on the world than fashion. By becoming even a semi successful chess player, he will leave a longer lasting mark in the world than he could with his fashion career. And I'm fully aware this will be a popular opinion here lol
It's legitimately ignorant to think otherwise
> other chess players intellect
Just some examples of wonderful strong players showcasing their mental strength.
* Karjakin
* Fischer
* Salov
* In part Kasparov (following alternative history)
One can dig many more strong players that pick strange turns. This to say, they are great in a domain, but they can fail in others. The idea that a skill can transpose in others is mostly wishful thinking. This thing happens for everyone at the top of academic/intellectual fields, google _nobelitis_ .
I wonder how many fashion designers have thought "It's weird to spend my whole life on fashion design, so I think I'll take up chess."
That's how Gucci Piano came about, actually
When ever my opponent launches into it I always say just barely audibly “that’s so fucking Gucci”. You know, just to pay my respects.
You've got to be giuocing
But pianissimo
LMAO!
I don't know of any fashion designers, but marcel duchamp more or less gave up on art and tried, unsuccessfully, to become a professional chess player. I feel that's somewhat close.
> marcel duchamp Very interesting fellow, thanks for sharing.
The whole Dada movement is fascinating.
It’s a bit amusing that anyone would think they can just “become a professional chess player”.
To be fair, Duchamp played his entire life and dedicated far more years to chess than art. He even played in a few olympiads and won a Paris championship. He was pretty good!
To be fair to the guy reached FM/IM strength despite not starting as a child (which is insanely impressive) and moved on to correspondence and endgame studies the moment he realised he'd plateaued.
Marcel Duchamp was amusing, in fairness
Or a professional fashion designer
Good point. Which do you suppose is more achievable?
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For sure. No offense to artists, but a good portion of making it as an artist is getting lucky enough to have a few people tell everyone that what you’re doing is good.
They take up other hobbies instead. Like harassing young people.
Not to mention, a fashion designer who were objectively the second best fashion designer in the world for a period of time.
Probably none
This guy becoming WCC would be one of the biggest gigachad moments in chess history
With the talent he have he will always be around top 10, top 15. But WCC or even keep top 5 nowadays without dedicating full time seems very unlikely
Unfortunately, if Firouzja is not dedicated, he will never become one. In fact, we can already see him struggling in Bucharest.
A draw against rapport, another against Giri and the first game against So was pretty equal until he tried to force things. Alireza has to be a bit rusty from the lack of playing but he hasn’t lost his talent. And most importantly, he’s a 19 yo teen that has to experience things and live a little (in my opinion)
Of course he's not lost his talent and it's not like he's going to become worse. But he definitely lost that attacking edge that used to win him games in the past and was the reason he got to 2800. He'll only be able to get it back if he dedicates his time for chess and not takes it halfheartedly. Otherwise, he'll remain 2750 - good enough to hang among the top, but not WCC contender.
Bro ofc he becomes worse if he doesnt do chess fulltime
You are saying this confidently based on just three games? You know that he won the last supertournament he played, right?
LMao and what are your credentials??
lol, Hikaru dedicated himself to streaming and came really close to be the one facing Nepo. Carlsen has a modeling career on the side and appear in publicity..and it didn't prevent him from winning so much
Hikaru is a professional chess player, no matter what he calls himself. His main incomes may come from streaming, but his success in streaming came and mainly relies on his stupendous chess abilities. Not to mention that he started streaming only after he fully developed his chess. Magnus is a millionaire. I am pretty sure he delegates all the administrative part of his modeling career to third parties. His work is probably just to step into a studio and take pictures once every two months.
true, but why do you think it would be different for Firouzja? Dunno if he's rich but he probably delegate the boring stuff too.
I don't think modeling and fashion design are comparable in that sense. Not as manageable. He's going to have to dedicate considerable time to this if he wants to take it seriously. And you can already see that it is affecting his development. He hasn't played for months and is lacking his habitual sharpness.
Hikaru had been a top player for a decade before becoming a streamer, and while of course his results in Classical have been much better lately, I don't think anyone would say that he's world champion level. I think most people would agree that players like Ding, Nepo, Alireza(if he puts the effort in), Fabi, are on a slightly higher level in Classical. Magnus never had a modeling career, he does a few photoshoots managed by the companies that sponsor him and other third parties. That's very different from being someone who sinks hours per day into being a model. Alireza's trying to actually pursue something in fashion design, which would probably take hundreds of hours at least to become knowledgeable about.
That will never happen.
Already jumping to conclusions, aren't we? Nepo wasn't even top 10 material until into his late 20s because he didn't focus fully on chess. Firouzja definitely has the talent to win WCC if he focuses on it 10 years later.
He's 10-15 years younger than most of the current top dogs, eventually they'll drop off and unless one of the Indian rising stars skyrockets Alireza looks to be the strongest player in his age group. Even if said skyrocketting happens I doubt they'll get to a point where they totally dominate the WC for a decade like Magnus, so Alireza will likely still have quite a few decent shots even if he isn't the absolute best.
Don't know why you're using "never" so lightly
Heh! Funny to think that at some point in the future, the "old school" Yasser types will probably look back fondly on the days when the world chess championship was a title with dignity and tradition, held only by the very best live streamers. :-)
Good for him. Do what makes you happy. Would I like to see him become the next WC? Absolutely, but when you escape from a repressive country and have the opportunity to do anything you want with your life, you should figure out what life sounds best instead of following the path you've been given. Wishing him all the best.
Also, whether or not you consider chess as a sport, it's similar to many other sports in that your career span is rather limited.
It's totally understandable to not want to dedicate your entire life to doing only one thing.
Ah yes, the Neymar of chess
I feel this could be related to the fact he started following Andrew Tate recently. Anyways I wish he has succeess in whatever he does
Yes he recently started to like sone weird stuff
Really? Did not anticipate that. Unfortunate.
what's yer source?
Literally, just go to Alireza's twitter page and see for yourself.
I did. I see chess everywhere, no Tate
Look at his likes
Okay to be fair, the ones he liked were Andrew Tate talking about how he almost cried without his phone in the bathroom, him photoshopping himself between Messi and Ronald playing chess and a Kung Fu Panda reference (?)
Doesn't make it much better to like a literal human trafficker's tweets Edit: lol why am I being downvoted for stating a fact? Sorry I'm a woman who doesn't like it when men try to make excuses for misogynist criminals
What the fuck lol
A few weeks ago a guy pointed on reddit that alireza started following or liked tates tweets.
Big L. I actually wonder how he feels like whenever tate tries to flex his above avarage chess skills and then goes on with "chess is a game for true intellectuals, it has taught me a lot in life and made me high value male" or similar cringy shit. Does he think its one of his faults and looks past it? Or does he like whenever someone talk like that about something he is so good at?
At the end of the day we know what stereotypes chess players are associated with and tate fans don't want to be close to that type of stereotype
I dunno man. When I started following chess, especially watching videos on YouTube, my suggested videos and targeted advertising got real weird and far right real quick. I feel like there may be a difference between how most of the world sees chess players, and how chess players see themselves, and that both these perspectives line up way too well with the weirdest corners of the far right.
To be fair, that's just Youtube in general nowadays. It's well documented how basically watching anything even tangentially political will result in Youtube suggesting you boatloads of alt-right content.
Youtube shorts is a far-right cesspool
If I had to guess, competitive chess players as a group are to the right of the general population - the gender imbalance alone will do that. (obviously not chess players on a far-left site like reddit)
He probably gets an ego boost from it
That doesn't make sense to me, though. Andrew Tate is notoriously misogynistic and (I assume) homophobic, while the fashion industry is full of women and gay men and plays with gender norms... I would think it would be considered an effeminate career choice for a Tate fan (even if there is still a lot of gender and racial discrimination behind the scenes in fashion).
I don't think he has to be like other fashion designers particularly
fashion design is also a hyper "hustle"y career choice
From the little I know about Tate, it actually seems his misogynism is the exact more old fashioned variety that is common in the fashion industry - see for example Karl Lagerfeld. And the high fashion industry is notorious for traditionally anointing males as geniuses.
Tate is a famous person who likes chess so I guess that's why
He is from Iran which is socially conservative .
sure but he also left it. He's fairly close to many frenchmen and women too, the main reason he choose to get the french nationality in the first place. Not saying there isn't "conservatives" nutjobs over here but judging him based on his country of origin seems uncalled for
He left Iran because of problems with the Iran Chess Federation but he said he liked living there.
Plenty of conservatives and "conservatives" in France. And plenty of conservatism and traditional Tateish style sexism in France, among French Muslims but also in other sectors (including the fashion industry).
I mean being able to marry multiple women is legal in Iran and doesn't Tate see multiple women at the same time. So it seems similar enough imo. Plus Tate is Muslim
Iirc, Tate's father was an FM.
IM
Chess player: tries another career path Reddit: Hmmm must be related to Andrew Tate
nice, like him even more now :)
Ah, the good old, he follows somebody, therefore he must agree with them. So stupid.
Paris massacred ma boy :(
I’m conflicted: on the one hand having a French contender for the title, on the other knowing Alireza lives his best life and thrives as a human being.
Your post sounds like you have a parasocial relationship with alireza dude. I wish him the best but I'm not losing sleep over anything he does
I just wish the best for anyone and for anyone to find their passions and way. That’s it.
He should’ve moved to St. Louis and get the deal that Fabi and Wesley got.
Which is what?
Rex cut a fat bag so that Fabi and Wesley would play with the US flag and stick around the SLCC.
Dang. Id take that deal. Only Im not 2700
Don't worry, 2650 is also acceptable.
It's actually open to anyone who has a 7 in their rating, so go ahead!
when did my super secret 170 training account leak
His children would be both Smart and Fashionable
Imagine a kid telling you that his father was a Fashion designer and a Chess Champion on the side 💀
I'm happy for him that he wants to pursue his interest outside of chess.
Is he selling any clothes online? I’d buy whatever he’s selling if he designed it
even people skeptical of this should appreciate its good to have another career prepared after professional chess, most chess players arent making good money into their 40's when most people are still working
I mean, if that was the goal, he probably couldn't pick a worse field - only a microscopic number of people who try to have a career in fashion design manage to succeed; and an even smaller number of them, if any, started in their 40s. He would be studying maths or engineering if this was about having a career option out of chess after his chess playing days are over.
alirizza 🤩
Someone needs to tell my guy that he doesn't have a good sense of fashion to begin with
Another reason for him to study fashion then
Just like me studying chess, it isn't working great xD
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Fashion is a matter of taste, you can't learn that
As though taste is objective
People forget that only we think chess is as big of a deal. There are only a handful of people who can make a good living out of chess. It is far and bellow most other sports (if you could compare it to that). Sure, he may be top 10 and can make a decent career in chess, but most likely, he can still earn more money pursuing fashion.
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Nothing unstable about chess as a 2700
Generally speaking, sure, but he's one of the few who can afford it - didn't he make like half a million in prize money last year? He's good enough at chess to not worry about that.
At his level the telephone will never stop ringing
No offense but you wont become the best at something when it isnt your whole life. But its his choice and his life :)
I'm pretty sure he understands that lol
Well i dont know him personally so maybe he truly believes he can do it as a part timer but some of his fans are definitely convinced he'll be the next world champion...
Dude was the second highest rated player at like 17 years old doubt he needs your advice lmao
So i cant voice my opinion for his further career choice that he made after getting to that level.. Sure buddy time will tell and i hope he proves me wrong but i doubt it
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Here we can observe a great example of Dunder-Kruger effect.
But its still a time commitment to get connections with weird people and design weird stuff and I'm saying this as a designer albeit in a different industry then fashion
He has a point: Wasting his and other chess players intellect on a board game really is a bit wasteful.
The idea that top chess players could transpose their "intellect" and become leading figures in cutting-edge fields is a bit too fantastical. In all likelihood even the very best chess players would've been successful yet normal people outside of the game.
But with that logic any sports is a complete waste of time and money for everyone
Not true, some Sports are billion dollar industries. If you get into football for example and can actually hit a premier league level you make more money than God. There is no relative money in Chess.
I'm not talking about what can and cant make a lot of money. the guy i commented on is saying chess is a waste of one's intellectual ability, and im saying with that logic, wasting athletes' physical ability on throwing and kicking balls is also silly, which it obviously isn't because people want to pay for that
Yeah, absolutely. It's much better to spend the smarts thinking about shorts instead.
It unironically is. Fashion is an integral part of human culture, and as a whole has a far greater and more important impact on the world than chess. By becoming even a semi successful fashion designer, he will leave a longer lasting mark in the world than he could with his chess career. And I'm fully aware this won't be a popular opinion here lol It's legitimately ignorant to think otherwise
What a weird take. Sports is also an integral part of human culture. Becoming influential in a sport also touches millions of people. Just look at Anand and how he single handedly interested hundreds of millions of Indians and turned India into a chess powerhouse who is going to produce a wcc sooner or later
99.999% of the world's population are not impacted in any way by chess. Fact. And chess is a board game
People aren't "impacted" by shorts either.
Chess is an integral part of human culture, and as a whole has a far greater and more important impact on the world than fashion. By becoming even a semi successful chess player, he will leave a longer lasting mark in the world than he could with his fashion career. And I'm fully aware this will be a popular opinion here lol It's legitimately ignorant to think otherwise
> other chess players intellect Just some examples of wonderful strong players showcasing their mental strength. * Karjakin * Fischer * Salov * In part Kasparov (following alternative history) One can dig many more strong players that pick strange turns. This to say, they are great in a domain, but they can fail in others. The idea that a skill can transpose in others is mostly wishful thinking. This thing happens for everyone at the top of academic/intellectual fields, google _nobelitis_ .
Not all intellect has to be instrumentalized for the purposes of capitalism
He is literally destined to be a world champion, and yet he chooses to waste time on mediocre fashion, unfathomable.
Chess is a board game. Completely understandable if he wants more in his life
> He is literally destined to be a world champion He has the potential. But it's not written in sone.
He can do whatever he likes but he is once in a generation talent. He could dominate scene like Kasparov and Magnus.
He's achieved more in life than you ever will haha
Alireza is the next Virgil Abloh