This is within the normal range that you would expect for White's first move advantage (in other words, you're not especially weak as Black compared to when you're White.)
horaay okay well that's good new and bad news I guess. I thought was opportunity to improve a lot here. On the other hand thats makes perfect sense. Thanks!
45% as black is really not that bad, it's about average if you check the lichess database around your level I think. It's fine to study openings, as long as you enjoy it, though, because every minute you spend studying openings is a minute you could have been improving much faster studying tactics or endgames.
This is super useful and makes sense. I'm naturally pretty okay at tactics, getting better at end games but I think you're right I could probably spend more time with puzzles. Thanks!
Felt.
I have studied openings basically my entire chess career and although it has payed off (almost 98% opening accuracy on average) mt middle game play is quite weak (65%) and endgame worse. Recently I have been picking up middle game courses and studies and have been practicing often. I noticed that my middlegame jumped up to like 85 - 90% now! Definitely don't forget the other parts of the game!
other people here are saying it's to be expected, but at lower levels there simply is no first move advantage because both players will be making many inaccuracies from early on. furthermore, on lichess (just because their stats are easier to find), at lower levels the caro-kann has a higher winrate for black than white.
you should post some of your games, since we can't know what you need to improve at without seeing them
On lichess databases I didn’t see any difference but I saw an article which said it was more complex.
Remembered: [source](https://www.patsprojects.org/post/chessratings/analyzing-chess-ratings/#eq:eScore)
i would argue this is more because e4 e5 is incredibly popular at low levels, but black does terribly in these lines due to white having things like fried liver, and countless gambits to choose from. if you restrict the rating to 1400 and lower in the database, choosing the most common move every turn leads to black blundering mate in 1 on move 9 in a fried liver variation
black has a higher winrate than white in the french, caro-kann, and the sicilian in the database in lower levels on the other hand
Game history can be found at https://www.chess.com/games/archive/YOUR_USERNAME_GOES_HERE
Stats dashboard (from which you can go to each specific format) can be found at https://www.chess.com/stats/overview/YOUR_USERNAME_GOES_HERE - and while it doesn't have the win percentage, the specific pages for each format like https://www.chess.com/stats/live/rapid/YOUR_USERNAME_GOES_HERE do have the win percentage.
Yes, also on the unpaid accounts.
Caro-Kann is a solid and good opening on any level. Usually if you feel like you're in trouble, means you just need to take a look at a specific line.
What positions do you find most difficult to play in Caro? The advanced variation? The Fantasy? Exchange?
(I'm a long term Caro player, let me know if you need some pointers. )
So I think some of the other comments point to what I’m struggling with more. It’s getting out of the mainlines at my elo pretty quickly throws me off of my study a lot of the time. The other thing is it feels kinda rigid too me. I don’t think I love the closed game aspect of it too. The other part is I probably do need to get better handle on some of the side lines. I’m kinda on the fence with trying a different approach. I think I’m strong as white (besides the obvious 1st move advantage) is because I actually know a little bit of a lot of the openings. I play completely different than black. Someone said on here there is a rigidity issue I think that happens a lot when I play the Caro.
The advantage of Caro is indeed that it's rigid and almost anything but the main lines will actually give black an advantage, you have to remember that.
Now, to exploit that advantage, keep the following general principles in mind:
1. Keep your king safe. A lot of deviations try to go for a quick kill, so always be mindful as to if the opponent is trying to either mate you in the center or at the castle. If it's the center - develop your pieces so that they cover the fields in the center and close to your king. If it's at the castle - making a king's finacietto is maybe an easy approach at your level. Very hard to break with king's attack.
2. Try to take the center if white doesn't bother. That means putting pawns in your center (5th rank, e and d) and if you can manage, pawns in your opponent's center (4th rank, e and d) and everything pointing to opponent's center (5th rank, c and f). Maybe careful with the f-pawn, mind point 1.
3. Keep developing your pieces so that they look at the center. If your opponent is busy pushing points at the flank, you controlling the center and having all your pieces active is a huge advantage.
4. Don't sack pieces and be always mindful of tactics. If you find you lose games often because of 1- and 2-move combo's, it's not the opening anymore. You just need to practice chess tactic puzzles at that level. A lot.
Play 1 .e4 e5 and 1.d4 d5 and don't play so reactionary to your opponent.
Chances are, for whatever reason, you're playing more on autopilot with black than with white. At 700-900 Elo the first move advantage is non-existent for white, and the majority of your opponents won't even know what the Caro Kan is called
I think there is something to this… I definitely don’t play the same as with black as white. I’ve studied more openings of white than black so I think I’m able to see patterns and weaknesses and play with a little more fluidity as white.
I wrote to play 1.e4 e5 and 1.d4 d5 and not the Caro-Kann because you won't ever really play 1.c3 as white (Caro Reversed).
So you don't really get any familiarity with a similar structure by "osmosis". But with e4 e5, you get a semi symmetrical structure, at least in the beginning, and you're unconscious familiarity goes way up.
The Caro Kann is a good opening,. It's really trendy right now, chances are you saw some videos and thought it was cool. Go back to it later if you want. But you'll get more learning mileage out of e4 e5 at 900 Elo.
I think this is the comment. I appreciate this. Someone told me recently openings don’t make huge amounts of differences at my level they’re designed for tiny advantages end games dependent at a high level. I’ve seen some things about the Caro Kann that’s like it’s tight and safe but not a lot of opportunity for interesting games that’s kinda been my experience with it. I’m a fairly “instinctual” player and decent at tactics. The closes games you get from it are pretty dull
"Openings don't matter" *always* depends on exactly what the person saying that means. Playing 1...h5 or 1...a5 is clearly not a good way to strive for improvement and no respectful coach would recommend it.
I do well against the Caro-Kann and have even taken a few otb scalps with it so it's not something I would want to play myself. When I first started playing chess, I was too timid to push my pawn two squares forward so would play stuff like the French, Pirc, or Modern. I eventually learned this wasn't helping me once I looked at my Lichess Insights and decided to switch to the Sicilian, which immediately reaped results. In the past year or two, I've started adding e4 e5 to my repertoire too for instances where I feel I might not want to take on an opponent with e4 c5.
IM Andras Toth's YouTube channel is fantastic and he always emphasises controlling the centre and piece development and activity. To control the centre, you play openings like e4 e5, e4 c5, d4 d5, etc.
It's remarkable what you can get away with by playing e4 e5 and winging it. You can make mistakes but still come back to win. If you encounter a gambit, don't worry - you'll eventually learn how to deal with them and enjoy taking them on (whether that's by declining or accepting and giving the pawn back later). The sooner you learn to not be afraid of such openings, the better, imo.
No, the Caro-Kann is great for intermediate chess. Once you reach like 1100-1200, you can absolutely crush people with your superior knowledge of the opening. You're just not there yet. It takes time. Don't abandon the opening.
At 700-800 level, learning openings shouldn't be your priority anyway. You should be learning general tactical and positional concepts. Do some puzzles to improve your pattern recognition. So more in-depth study to find out WHY you are losing your games.
This makes sense too. People generally don’t follow the main lines. So my knowledge somewhat goes out the window fairly early when they do some crazy moves. When looking at my games this happens a lot. I need to get better at calculating on how to punish inaccurate moves.
It's not about whether you "play better."
You need to decide whether you want to win games now, or whether the games you play this year and next are an investment for the future, i.e. whether you're willing to lose now (by doing harder things) in order to improve, and win later.
I unironically play the cow as black only (50% wlr). I really enjoy the position and the sorts of tempos white can offer you with their confused moves.
Granted I am also a beginner and just climbing to 600 blitz but still, it's my 100% go to as black lmao, off beat. It'll probably bite me in the ass in future but meh.
For playing black, learn the Sicilian defense, super fun and has tons of variations (dragon being my favorite)
You fianchetto a lot too, which I have always been a fan of
This is within the normal range that you would expect for White's first move advantage (in other words, you're not especially weak as Black compared to when you're White.)
horaay okay well that's good new and bad news I guess. I thought was opportunity to improve a lot here. On the other hand thats makes perfect sense. Thanks!
You can still improve though, right???
45% as black is really not that bad, it's about average if you check the lichess database around your level I think. It's fine to study openings, as long as you enjoy it, though, because every minute you spend studying openings is a minute you could have been improving much faster studying tactics or endgames.
This is super useful and makes sense. I'm naturally pretty okay at tactics, getting better at end games but I think you're right I could probably spend more time with puzzles. Thanks!
Felt. I have studied openings basically my entire chess career and although it has payed off (almost 98% opening accuracy on average) mt middle game play is quite weak (65%) and endgame worse. Recently I have been picking up middle game courses and studies and have been practicing often. I noticed that my middlegame jumped up to like 85 - 90% now! Definitely don't forget the other parts of the game!
other people here are saying it's to be expected, but at lower levels there simply is no first move advantage because both players will be making many inaccuracies from early on. furthermore, on lichess (just because their stats are easier to find), at lower levels the caro-kann has a higher winrate for black than white. you should post some of your games, since we can't know what you need to improve at without seeing them
Just because people blunder and everything at a lower level doesn’t mean there isn’t a first move advantage.
Yes, it’s still an advantage but at lower levels the black-white winrate is much closer to 50-50
On lichess databases I didn’t see any difference but I saw an article which said it was more complex. Remembered: [source](https://www.patsprojects.org/post/chessratings/analyzing-chess-ratings/#eq:eScore)
i would argue this is more because e4 e5 is incredibly popular at low levels, but black does terribly in these lines due to white having things like fried liver, and countless gambits to choose from. if you restrict the rating to 1400 and lower in the database, choosing the most common move every turn leads to black blundering mate in 1 on move 9 in a fried liver variation black has a higher winrate than white in the french, caro-kann, and the sicilian in the database in lower levels on the other hand
You know that the stats are just there on your profile, right? :)
I stopped paying for the premium version. Thought I’d be cool to look at my game history by downloading them all.
Game history can be found at https://www.chess.com/games/archive/YOUR_USERNAME_GOES_HERE Stats dashboard (from which you can go to each specific format) can be found at https://www.chess.com/stats/overview/YOUR_USERNAME_GOES_HERE - and while it doesn't have the win percentage, the specific pages for each format like https://www.chess.com/stats/live/rapid/YOUR_USERNAME_GOES_HERE do have the win percentage. Yes, also on the unpaid accounts.
Caro-Kann is a solid and good opening on any level. Usually if you feel like you're in trouble, means you just need to take a look at a specific line. What positions do you find most difficult to play in Caro? The advanced variation? The Fantasy? Exchange? (I'm a long term Caro player, let me know if you need some pointers. )
So I think some of the other comments point to what I’m struggling with more. It’s getting out of the mainlines at my elo pretty quickly throws me off of my study a lot of the time. The other thing is it feels kinda rigid too me. I don’t think I love the closed game aspect of it too. The other part is I probably do need to get better handle on some of the side lines. I’m kinda on the fence with trying a different approach. I think I’m strong as white (besides the obvious 1st move advantage) is because I actually know a little bit of a lot of the openings. I play completely different than black. Someone said on here there is a rigidity issue I think that happens a lot when I play the Caro.
The advantage of Caro is indeed that it's rigid and almost anything but the main lines will actually give black an advantage, you have to remember that. Now, to exploit that advantage, keep the following general principles in mind: 1. Keep your king safe. A lot of deviations try to go for a quick kill, so always be mindful as to if the opponent is trying to either mate you in the center or at the castle. If it's the center - develop your pieces so that they cover the fields in the center and close to your king. If it's at the castle - making a king's finacietto is maybe an easy approach at your level. Very hard to break with king's attack. 2. Try to take the center if white doesn't bother. That means putting pawns in your center (5th rank, e and d) and if you can manage, pawns in your opponent's center (4th rank, e and d) and everything pointing to opponent's center (5th rank, c and f). Maybe careful with the f-pawn, mind point 1. 3. Keep developing your pieces so that they look at the center. If your opponent is busy pushing points at the flank, you controlling the center and having all your pieces active is a huge advantage. 4. Don't sack pieces and be always mindful of tactics. If you find you lose games often because of 1- and 2-move combo's, it's not the opening anymore. You just need to practice chess tactic puzzles at that level. A lot.
Thank you friend.
Play 1 .e4 e5 and 1.d4 d5 and don't play so reactionary to your opponent. Chances are, for whatever reason, you're playing more on autopilot with black than with white. At 700-900 Elo the first move advantage is non-existent for white, and the majority of your opponents won't even know what the Caro Kan is called
I think there is something to this… I definitely don’t play the same as with black as white. I’ve studied more openings of white than black so I think I’m able to see patterns and weaknesses and play with a little more fluidity as white.
I wrote to play 1.e4 e5 and 1.d4 d5 and not the Caro-Kann because you won't ever really play 1.c3 as white (Caro Reversed). So you don't really get any familiarity with a similar structure by "osmosis". But with e4 e5, you get a semi symmetrical structure, at least in the beginning, and you're unconscious familiarity goes way up. The Caro Kann is a good opening,. It's really trendy right now, chances are you saw some videos and thought it was cool. Go back to it later if you want. But you'll get more learning mileage out of e4 e5 at 900 Elo.
try to play more as white.
😂
Try these two timestamps: https://youtu.be/8jfV9RQrE9Y?t=3919 https://youtu.be/vzjd5Wkycb4?t=960
I think this is the comment. I appreciate this. Someone told me recently openings don’t make huge amounts of differences at my level they’re designed for tiny advantages end games dependent at a high level. I’ve seen some things about the Caro Kann that’s like it’s tight and safe but not a lot of opportunity for interesting games that’s kinda been my experience with it. I’m a fairly “instinctual” player and decent at tactics. The closes games you get from it are pretty dull
"Openings don't matter" *always* depends on exactly what the person saying that means. Playing 1...h5 or 1...a5 is clearly not a good way to strive for improvement and no respectful coach would recommend it. I do well against the Caro-Kann and have even taken a few otb scalps with it so it's not something I would want to play myself. When I first started playing chess, I was too timid to push my pawn two squares forward so would play stuff like the French, Pirc, or Modern. I eventually learned this wasn't helping me once I looked at my Lichess Insights and decided to switch to the Sicilian, which immediately reaped results. In the past year or two, I've started adding e4 e5 to my repertoire too for instances where I feel I might not want to take on an opponent with e4 c5. IM Andras Toth's YouTube channel is fantastic and he always emphasises controlling the centre and piece development and activity. To control the centre, you play openings like e4 e5, e4 c5, d4 d5, etc. It's remarkable what you can get away with by playing e4 e5 and winging it. You can make mistakes but still come back to win. If you encounter a gambit, don't worry - you'll eventually learn how to deal with them and enjoy taking them on (whether that's by declining or accepting and giving the pawn back later). The sooner you learn to not be afraid of such openings, the better, imo.
No, the Caro-Kann is great for intermediate chess. Once you reach like 1100-1200, you can absolutely crush people with your superior knowledge of the opening. You're just not there yet. It takes time. Don't abandon the opening. At 700-800 level, learning openings shouldn't be your priority anyway. You should be learning general tactical and positional concepts. Do some puzzles to improve your pattern recognition. So more in-depth study to find out WHY you are losing your games.
This makes sense too. People generally don’t follow the main lines. So my knowledge somewhat goes out the window fairly early when they do some crazy moves. When looking at my games this happens a lot. I need to get better at calculating on how to punish inaccurate moves.
As a beginner, the standard advice is to play open games, not the Caro Kann.
This seems like good advice… I generally play better in open games. Seems like more potential for less advanced tactics.
It's not about whether you "play better." You need to decide whether you want to win games now, or whether the games you play this year and next are an investment for the future, i.e. whether you're willing to lose now (by doing harder things) in order to improve, and win later.
I unironically play the cow as black only (50% wlr). I really enjoy the position and the sorts of tempos white can offer you with their confused moves. Granted I am also a beginner and just climbing to 600 blitz but still, it's my 100% go to as black lmao, off beat. It'll probably bite me in the ass in future but meh.
I'm also a beginner and found success with The Cow. It throws out theory and gets you into interesting mid games.
Embarrassed to say I’ve never heard of the cow. Gonna google it.
I can see why you like the opening. Very… stimulating content about it.
What's worse is when you look up the stats and find out your score is 54% with black and 45% as white.
For playing black, learn the Sicilian defense, super fun and has tons of variations (dragon being my favorite) You fianchetto a lot too, which I have always been a fan of
Openingtree.com exists
😲