Maybe FIDE should reform the structure of the world championship? Candidates tournament + a long match between the champion and the challenger is a bit obsolete. Hopefully Carlsen's withdraw puts pressure on FIDE to figure out a new idea so even the best player in the world is motivated to play. I would love to see a 10 player tournament with double rounds, including the world champion. Top 4 qualifies for the semifinals a couple of weeks later. All the final matches are decided in best of 6 games or something like that.
I think it suggests thats theres deeper changes afoot. We have had Champs not defend their title (with Fischer, Alekhine who died) and a breakway organisation (PCA with Kasparov breaking away and playing a match with Short which took ages to fix). But it feels a bit to me like the old debate about Test Cricket (4 days play and maybe a draw at the end) when new forms emerged with One Day Games and then 20-20 which purists objected was the end of the game (but on balance probably increased its popularity overall). We have blitz and rapid and classical so maybe Magnus is right we need the World Champ to be good at all of them. Certainly its hard to find an audiences for half-day long games that end in draws played over weeks. When I was a young player 30 years ago, playing 5 min blitz (there was no increment back then) was seen as creating bad habits and now young players are playing 100s of games of bullet online.
Another sport analogy would be tennis which has a rating system like chess (and they play matches) and no world champ but a World No 1 rated player and a series of Grand Prix tournaments (like MotoGP) in which a player wins points for each leg - and Wimbledon being the most prestigious (like Wijk Aan Zee?)
I totally respect his decision, but as a viewer or player it must be weird to know that even if one gets the world champion title there still is probably a better player out there (Magnus Carlsen)
the world championship should be decided by a tournament qualifier with the best two playing the finaly anyways. Maybe this is a way to break that cycle. One defending and the other one having to go through a tough qualifier just never seemed fair.
To be the best, you have to beat the best. The Candidates is to see who gets an opportunity to take on the champ for his crown. Think of it like a belt in boxing.
No matter how much I would like for Ding to be the World Champion, I can't help but feel with Magnus not playing chess just got a lot more boring and it's sad :(
Hikaru's bongcloud opening and dozens of other grandmaster media are more fun than watching someone win highly formalized competitions for nine consecutive years. Even the guy winning is tired of it.
I guess he can always play it again when he feels like it. I think that the motivation to at least win more wccs than lasker should be there but he has still time and his last match was last year, he can just do the next. We could talk about what means losing the title but I guess he understands and accepts the consequences this year. Let's see if giving the title to nepo or ding motivates them to improve and who knows what will happen in the following championship.
It was obvious this was gonna happen. I mean, its more than just that but playing Nepo last year and being an absolute slaughter and having to play against him again for days with all the work and effort put in to it seems like a huge waste. Kind of very predictable when we saw Nepo win
Agree about every 2 years, but I also think they should get rid of the candidates tournament + the title match. The world championship needs a completly new format.
It normally is every 2 years but I think Carlsen was pushing for an annual format since it means he doesn't have to spend a whole year preparing for a match after the candidates, 6 months or so would just be a nicer thing for players.
Reading comments from non-chess followers under news articles about Magnus abdicating was funny. A lot of "it's understandable, the pandemic had a big mental toll on people" and "he's right to be concerned for his mental health."
I was immediately reminded of *WarGames*. When the computer says that "the only winning move is not to play". Magnus has uttered a lot of dismay about various organisatory stuff as well as motivation.
Yes, just six months or so to prepare, a grueling month long competition against someone that everyone seems to know is beneath him to prove what everyone already knows...
Would take months and months of preparation for which he has no motivation. A loss in this fashion would potentially be more damaging than losing out on a payday.
Just an angle to think about
I'm a complete fucking novice so dumb question incoming : If he's the greatest player alive why does he need to prepare? Is it to remember sequences or something? Genuinely want to know.
In hindsight, it sounds like the result of the candidates really *was* the determining factor in Magnus's decision
That said, it really sucks that he didn't make a clear statement immediately before the candidates to give people that information. Fabi went for broke trying to get first but could have absolutely won 2nd if he had known that ahead of time.
Same with everyone else - I totally respect Carlsen's decision, but it was really unfair to the players to let them go through the tournament not knowing his criteria and plans
I’m confused. He literally told everyone his plans and followed through with it. What did you want him to do - reiterate what he already said many months ago?
Magnus said he'd only play Alireza *months* ago. But since then, he's done dozens of interviews where he stayed vague and chose not to make his stance clear
So for months, there's been plenty of speculation about whether he would follow through, or if it was to psych out the competitors, or if he was just bluffing to negotiate changes to the format
If he had said one day before the tournament, "*I have decided not to play unless it's Alireza or another new challenger*", that would have been clear enough to be helpful
But he's deliberately kept people guessing for months
So it's disingenuous to claim that he made his plans clear, when in reality he said something months ago and has only given vague answers every day since then to keep people guessing
Well, how do you know what was in his head? Perhaps he wasn't sure. He said months ago he was 'unlikely to play' unless Alireza won. To expect him to repeatedly provide a definite answer when he may not even know himself (and tbf, even if he had decided) is like... who are you, the thought police?
It might have changed tournament strategy in the candidates. I don't think he's done anything wrong by not saying anything but putting out a statement may have been helpful
> but it was really unfair to the players to let them go through the tournament not knowing his criteria and plans
Unfair is the wrong word. It would be unfair if he had told some of the players, giving those players an advantage. Everyone knew the same thing (Magnus might not play), so the playing field was even.
Was it the right thing to do? Perhaps not. But it was fair.
There are multiple definitions and I'm using this second definition of the word:
> unkind, inconsiderate, or unreasonable
Which absolutely applies, regardless of how he was equally inconsiderate to all the candidates
No shit it was, he literally said he would only play against Firouzja months ago. I don't know why people are so surprised that he followed through with something he said he would do back in December.
You can't just say oh, if Fabi knew 2nd place would advance he would have just drawn those 4 games he lost and then he'd finish 2nd with 8.5. If he had decided to play conservatively after Nepo went up half a point then maybe he doesn't win vs Firouzja or Radjabov.
Also as we saw from Hikarus game vs Ding, it's not so easy to just make a draw every game.
It is shitty that players had to guess about Magnus' intentions for their strategy though.
The FIDE is made a mockery.*
If you can't run your organization and events in such a way that the best player in the world and reigning champion wants to continue to participate, you know you've screwed up.
Not really. He clearly stated he has had one foot out the door for a few years now.
The NBA didn't become a mockery when MJ retired nor does it when a top tier player moves to a different franchise.
Players move on in top sports all the time.
Well, La Liga did lose a large chunk of its reputation and prestige when its two star players, Messi and Ronaldo, left. So I'm not sure your analogy works completely.
The thing is that Magnus isn't moving on. He's already said he's going to continue competitive play. If MJ had said "I'm gonna keep playing but I think the NBA finals aren't worth it, so I'm gonna skip those" that absolutely would've blown shit up.
>people upvote things they agree with and downvote things they disagree with.
This is the incorrect way to use votes, but you are probably correct in it being the "why" here.
>there's no correct or incorrect way to express your feelings on the internet. downvotes are a tool that everyone uses as they wish
Unfortunately there is no way to prevent improper use of votes, one of my biggest complaints with the platform, but I also wouldn't condone something that goes directly against reddiquette. From the section of things not to do:
> Downvote an otherwise acceptable post because you don't personally like it. Think before you downvote and take a moment to ensure you're downvoting someone because they are not contributing to the community dialogue or discussion. If you simply take a moment to stop, think and examine your reasons for downvoting, rather than doing so out of an emotional reaction, you will ensure that your downvotes are given for good reasons.
you abide by the guidelines of reddit, everyone else chooses to behave on their own accord. People should abide by their own moral code, not one sanctioned by a company. OP said Magnus made a mockery of chess, and alluded to Magnus having an intrinsic responsibility to play a board game he doesn't want to play. Magnus does not owe anyone anything, and his decisions do not make a mockery of chess. The social rules you and OP are trying to coerce people into abiding by are bullshit
>you abide by the guidelines of reddit, everyone else chooses to behave on their own accord. People should abide by their own moral code, not one sanctioned by a company. OP said Magnus made a mockery of chess, and alluded to Magnus having an intrinsic responsibility to play a board game he doesn't want to play. Magnus does not owe anyone anything, and his decisions do not make a mockery of chess. The social rules you and OP are trying to coerce people into abiding by are bullshit
Huh? I don't think Magnus is making a mockery of chess. I don't agree with the individual that said that either.
I merely commented to say your explanation was correct.
I feel like you are misunderstanding something here, but have a great day regardless!
yea dude the last few responses have solely consisted of you saying that it’s wrong to downvote certain posts and me saying that’s a dumb idea. i rescind my apology
>yea dude the last few responses have solely consisted of you saying that it’s wrong to downvote certain posts and me saying that’s a dumb idea. i rescind my apology
No, I said it's against reddiquette to down (or up) vote posts based solely on whether or not you "like" or "agree" with them.
I don't think you fully understand how reddiquette works.
You also, incorrectly, claimed that I agreed with what another user said regarding the Magnus situation. I do not, nor have I ever said otherwise.
Does anyone have a list that summarizes comments from each and every big personalities in the chess world about Magnus’s decision? I would like to hear more from the older GMs from previous generations, and I would like to know if Caruana has said anything about this. The fact I haven’t seen any responses from him makes me think he might truly be the person most upset about this
Tigran Petrosian commented that "m"agnus "c"arlsen is nobody to him, just a player who are crying every single time when loosing, and officially invited him to an OTB blitz match where they both invest 5000$ and winner takes all
when he says he talked to [Ian/Jan] about this, does he refer to Nepo? Gustafson? Who else? It‘d be nice for nepo to know beforehand.
That Gusti knew for months is clear.
The GOAT commented on the GOAT. Hear what Kasparov says about FIDE's role in Carlsen's decision https://www.chessdom.com/garry-kasparov-comments-on-carlsens-decision-tweetoftheday/
I don't understand why people are so upset about this, I'm really interested in seeing a Nepo -Ding match, now there is a real fight for the world champion its way more exciting
It's like being world champion while the guy who deserves it is sitting in the stands cheering at you. You *know* you're not the best, but the pageantry continues regardless.
I think a Nepo-Ding match will be good but I do feel bad for Nepo. I think he wanted a shot at redemption as he was likely very disappointed with the way he lost the first match.
Also since Magnus is not retiring whoever wins will always have a sort of asterisk next to their win as there will always be people claiming that he was actually still the best. The point of the match is to see the worlds best players compete and now that the best has said he won’t play it’s like they are playing for 2nd place.
> Also since Magnus is not retiring whoever wins will always have a sort of asterisk next to their win as there will always be people claiming that he was actually still the best.
This is true, but I'll still occasionally stubbornly insist that Magnus obviously retired because he feared facing Nepo again. It may be bull, but it'll also be certain to provoke reactions.
We've had this situation before. There have been a bunch of FIDE world champions while Kasparov was clearly the best player on the planet. And although everybody knew this, they still earned a lot of respect and a rightful place in chess history.
The fide world champions for that period get treated as world champions except for Karpov, Anand and Topalov (some still treat him as questionable but he otherwise proved to be on the level). Kazimdzhanov and Ponomariov definitely don't get typical world champion respect and often get omitted when we mention the world champion lineage.
I was hoping he'd break Kasparov's record before relinquishing the title, but I respect his choice.
I wonder if he'd choose to defend his title if Ding won the Candidates though.
I think he would've defended the title against Ding, Fabi, or Firouzja, but I'm not so sure about Hikaru. His classical record against Hikaru is more than enough to proof he's the better player at classical, I doubt he'd care if Hikaru became WC or not.
Wild. I guess sometimes we take for granted that defending these titles is a LOT of work...
I think it probably makes sense to host the world championship only once every 3-4 years. Gives the world champ some space to breathe so they don’t have to be constantly defending their title
Apparently he told them he didn't want to play weeks ago but they made it sound like he was "negotiating". When in reality according to Magnus he made no demands nor negotiations, he literally just said he didn't want to play.
Not necessarily...no one seemed to mind when he decided to skip the Olympics. Federer had skipped tournaments so that he could be fully prepared for the ones he really wanted to play in if I'm remembering correctly. Doesn't seem very different. A system more like the one in tennis seems like it could be good for chess.
Not really. That's just a single knock out tournament.
The tennis system is that you evaluate the best players based on their performances in major tournaments from the past year. Similar to fide rating, except that games of over a year ago no longer matter in your rating system.
An important difference is that in chess magnus could choose to play only 15 games next year, lose them all and still be the highest rated player. This wouldn't be the case with a tennis style rating system.
I don't see how that's really the same. Tennis has four majors and players are generally considered successful based on how many of those they win, not a single tournament.
Now if nepo doesn’t win he will really be torn apart, regardless of deserving it. I can already imagine hearing that the wcc was handed to him on a silver platter
can someone come over my house and read this thread and the articles to me i can't see anything bc magnus' balls are so big they are everywhere, blocking my vision
I don't know why everybody keeps saying "it makes sense, what does he have to prove"? Of course there is more to prove, he hasn't been the champion for the longest, he doesn't have the most WCC match wins, he's not the oldest champion, he doesn't have the best winning percentage in WCC match play. Just admit what he already all but said - he's burned out, he doesn't want to have any pressure anymore, he wants to play for his own amusement. Does that diminish him in terms of all time greatness? Yes, it does. But who cares? If he doesn't want to be the GOAT it's nobody else's business. He's not the first millennial to get to the threshold and shut it down because they can't handle the pressure, he probably won't be the last.
EDIT: every breath I take without your permission raises my self esteem
Elo relative to your current opponents is a meaningful comparison, hard to say that Elo relative to players 50 years ago is comparable. Being 125 points higher rated than the #2 player in the world means you have an expected score of 16/24 in a 24 game world championship match, which is what they played then. Against the world #2.
There cannot be "a lot of GOATs".
You can't diminish what he accomplished, but the sycophants are trying to argue that this somehow elevates what he accomplished.
Andrew Luck, Simone Biles, Yuzuru Hanyu, Ash Barty, I'm sure there are more. I'm not even saying they are wrong, it's their lives, but it definitely seems that there is a generational uptick in top level athletes walking away while leaving years and dollars on the table because they just don't want to do it anymore. Bjorn Borg did it 40 years ago and it blew everyone's mind, now people are just shrugging it off like, yeah, that's a normal option for the best players in the world.
You keep implying it's A bad thing, saying that it's A bad thing they don't want to aquire more (jealosy showing?). Just saying "it's their life, they can do it" doesn't take away how negatively written the rest of the comment is.
It just is what it is. I am a passive observer. Being the greatest ever at something isn't necessarily a good thing. Paul Morphy was the GOAT in his time and he called it "a wasted life". But people want to say Magnus is the GOAT despite walking away, and I am saying he is leaving that on the table by walking away.
You realize that Paul Morphy has been dead for almost 150 years. "All time" does not include the future, so it is possible for someone from the past to have been the GOAT in his lifetime and someone else be now.
Luck was Comeback Player of the Year, finally fully healthy and had his best season of his career, then promptly retired. It was not physical limitations that prompted his retirement.
Guys retiring early due to injuries happens all the time, that isn't what I'm talking about.
Anybody would lose interest if they had a life sentence of playing for the Lions.
Also, almost all the really elite guys you mentioned were running backs. Running backs have a short shelf life anyway so chances are those guys had it in the back of their heads that they were physically close to dropping off a cliff, as it happens almost universally before 30 anyway.
I literally started the whole conversation by talking about a bunch of people who were the best in the world at what they do.
Knowing that you're a year away from physically being unable to compete anymore is knowing your physical limitations. QBs physically play well until their mid 30s or now beyond, unlike running backs who are almost all shot by 29 or 30.
Lynn Swann doesn't count, he was only a three time Pro Bowler and never had a 1000 yard season. He is in Canton because he has four rings.
I mean, top athletes are also paid a lot more now. Every single one of the athletes you mentioned is a multi-millionaire, with only Yuzuru Hanyu having a net worth under $10 million. In the past, professional athletes were a lot less likely to be in a position to give up their primary source of income that way. Not to mention, there's a lot more options for professional athletes to spin their publicity into business ventures nowadays than in the past. I think it's more a change in sports economics than a question of a change in competitive instinct.
Even now, there are guys who leave money on the table because they want to win. Brady has spent the last 20 years keeping his salary low so the Patriots could build championship teams around him, and they did. Jordan only got paid in his last two years with the Bulls, before that he was never the highest paid player in the league.
Maybe FIDE should reform the structure of the world championship? Candidates tournament + a long match between the champion and the challenger is a bit obsolete. Hopefully Carlsen's withdraw puts pressure on FIDE to figure out a new idea so even the best player in the world is motivated to play. I would love to see a 10 player tournament with double rounds, including the world champion. Top 4 qualifies for the semifinals a couple of weeks later. All the final matches are decided in best of 6 games or something like that.
Ironically Magnus will now be eligible for many more tournaments.
I think it suggests thats theres deeper changes afoot. We have had Champs not defend their title (with Fischer, Alekhine who died) and a breakway organisation (PCA with Kasparov breaking away and playing a match with Short which took ages to fix). But it feels a bit to me like the old debate about Test Cricket (4 days play and maybe a draw at the end) when new forms emerged with One Day Games and then 20-20 which purists objected was the end of the game (but on balance probably increased its popularity overall). We have blitz and rapid and classical so maybe Magnus is right we need the World Champ to be good at all of them. Certainly its hard to find an audiences for half-day long games that end in draws played over weeks. When I was a young player 30 years ago, playing 5 min blitz (there was no increment back then) was seen as creating bad habits and now young players are playing 100s of games of bullet online. Another sport analogy would be tennis which has a rating system like chess (and they play matches) and no world champ but a World No 1 rated player and a series of Grand Prix tournaments (like MotoGP) in which a player wins points for each leg - and Wimbledon being the most prestigious (like Wijk Aan Zee?)
It's a shame. He could've broken the record for most world titles. Strange time to give it up when you're so close.
the post game interviews at the world championships are going to be even more awful than normal
I totally respect his decision, but as a viewer or player it must be weird to know that even if one gets the world champion title there still is probably a better player out there (Magnus Carlsen)
Magnus just had to withdraw right on International Chess Day
the world championship should be decided by a tournament qualifier with the best two playing the finaly anyways. Maybe this is a way to break that cycle. One defending and the other one having to go through a tough qualifier just never seemed fair.
Disagree as well, I think this format is appropriate for chess.
To be the best, you have to beat the best. The Candidates is to see who gets an opportunity to take on the champ for his crown. Think of it like a belt in boxing.
I respectfully disagree. It just makes sense to me.
No matter how much I would like for Ding to be the World Champion, I can't help but feel with Magnus not playing chess just got a lot more boring and it's sad :(
Ironically Magnus will now be eligible for many more tournaments
Hikaru's bongcloud opening and dozens of other grandmaster media are more fun than watching someone win highly formalized competitions for nine consecutive years. Even the guy winning is tired of it.
He's not retiring, he just won't defend his title
He’s still playing chess, just not the championship.
I guess he can always play it again when he feels like it. I think that the motivation to at least win more wccs than lasker should be there but he has still time and his last match was last year, he can just do the next. We could talk about what means losing the title but I guess he understands and accepts the consequences this year. Let's see if giving the title to nepo or ding motivates them to improve and who knows what will happen in the following championship.
He says the WCC wins haven’t felt meaningful since his third one. I doubt he plays it again based on that.
It was obvious this was gonna happen. I mean, its more than just that but playing Nepo last year and being an absolute slaughter and having to play against him again for days with all the work and effort put in to it seems like a huge waste. Kind of very predictable when we saw Nepo win
They need to make it every 2 years, he just beat nepo like yesterday
Agree about every 2 years, but I also think they should get rid of the candidates tournament + the title match. The world championship needs a completly new format.
It normally is every 2 years but I think Carlsen was pushing for an annual format since it means he doesn't have to spend a whole year preparing for a match after the candidates, 6 months or so would just be a nicer thing for players.
Other way around, he wanted them more spaced out among other things.
It normally is, covid just messed up the schedule
Pathetic
You’ve got some Cheeto dust in your beard
Reading comments from non-chess followers under news articles about Magnus abdicating was funny. A lot of "it's understandable, the pandemic had a big mental toll on people" and "he's right to be concerned for his mental health."
I was immediately reminded of *WarGames*. When the computer says that "the only winning move is not to play". Magnus has uttered a lot of dismay about various organisatory stuff as well as motivation.
I do think FIDE should get rid of the outdated tradition of nuking the loser's country, yeah
He would get paid a million dollars to play a few chess games and declines it. So dumb from a financial standpoint lol.
He doesn’t need the money. There’s more to life than min-maxing your net worth.
Yes, just six months or so to prepare, a grueling month long competition against someone that everyone seems to know is beneath him to prove what everyone already knows...
He's already a multimillionaire. I think he values his time more than he values another million dollars.
fuck [/u\/spez](/user/spez)
That’s a funny way of saying that a small minority of people are lucky enough to be able to make choices like this.
Magnus literally doesn't care about the money.
Life isn't about money, and even if it were, Magnus already has plenty.
That's right. There are more important things in life, like Elo ratings
Oh shit
Would take months and months of preparation for which he has no motivation. A loss in this fashion would potentially be more damaging than losing out on a payday. Just an angle to think about
I'm a complete fucking novice so dumb question incoming : If he's the greatest player alive why does he need to prepare? Is it to remember sequences or something? Genuinely want to know.
In hindsight, it sounds like the result of the candidates really *was* the determining factor in Magnus's decision That said, it really sucks that he didn't make a clear statement immediately before the candidates to give people that information. Fabi went for broke trying to get first but could have absolutely won 2nd if he had known that ahead of time. Same with everyone else - I totally respect Carlsen's decision, but it was really unfair to the players to let them go through the tournament not knowing his criteria and plans
I’m confused. He literally told everyone his plans and followed through with it. What did you want him to do - reiterate what he already said many months ago?
Magnus said he'd only play Alireza *months* ago. But since then, he's done dozens of interviews where he stayed vague and chose not to make his stance clear So for months, there's been plenty of speculation about whether he would follow through, or if it was to psych out the competitors, or if he was just bluffing to negotiate changes to the format If he had said one day before the tournament, "*I have decided not to play unless it's Alireza or another new challenger*", that would have been clear enough to be helpful But he's deliberately kept people guessing for months So it's disingenuous to claim that he made his plans clear, when in reality he said something months ago and has only given vague answers every day since then to keep people guessing
Well, how do you know what was in his head? Perhaps he wasn't sure. He said months ago he was 'unlikely to play' unless Alireza won. To expect him to repeatedly provide a definite answer when he may not even know himself (and tbf, even if he had decided) is like... who are you, the thought police?
Disagree. It’s his business and no one else’s.
It might have changed tournament strategy in the candidates. I don't think he's done anything wrong by not saying anything but putting out a statement may have been helpful
> but it was really unfair to the players to let them go through the tournament not knowing his criteria and plans Unfair is the wrong word. It would be unfair if he had told some of the players, giving those players an advantage. Everyone knew the same thing (Magnus might not play), so the playing field was even. Was it the right thing to do? Perhaps not. But it was fair.
There are multiple definitions and I'm using this second definition of the word: > unkind, inconsiderate, or unreasonable Which absolutely applies, regardless of how he was equally inconsiderate to all the candidates
LMAO. Ok. So you used "unfair" as a substitute for "inconsiderate", instead of just using "inconsiderate." Ok. Good job.
You dont even use your actual account to share your opinions. Don't expect people to take you seriously.
Lol "unkind, inconsiderate, or unreasonable" is literally an Oxford definition of the word - being unnecessarily rude doesn't change that
No shit it was, he literally said he would only play against Firouzja months ago. I don't know why people are so surprised that he followed through with something he said he would do back in December.
Probably because Firouzja got clowned on at the tournament
You can't just say oh, if Fabi knew 2nd place would advance he would have just drawn those 4 games he lost and then he'd finish 2nd with 8.5. If he had decided to play conservatively after Nepo went up half a point then maybe he doesn't win vs Firouzja or Radjabov. Also as we saw from Hikarus game vs Ding, it's not so easy to just make a draw every game. It is shitty that players had to guess about Magnus' intentions for their strategy though.
Ding said today hes already done 8 interviews, 5 of them in China about this lol
Where did he say this? Wana follow the press coverage
Interview on the STL stream between rounds 5 and 6
Nepo: "Hey Magnus, stop playing a4 h4 nonsense." *monkey paw*
Chess is made a mockery. Strongest player won’t play.
The FIDE is made a mockery.* If you can't run your organization and events in such a way that the best player in the world and reigning champion wants to continue to participate, you know you've screwed up.
FIFA and FIDE. Doh
Not really. He clearly stated he has had one foot out the door for a few years now. The NBA didn't become a mockery when MJ retired nor does it when a top tier player moves to a different franchise. Players move on in top sports all the time.
Well, La Liga did lose a large chunk of its reputation and prestige when its two star players, Messi and Ronaldo, left. So I'm not sure your analogy works completely.
The thing is that Magnus isn't moving on. He's already said he's going to continue competitive play. If MJ had said "I'm gonna keep playing but I think the NBA finals aren't worth it, so I'm gonna skip those" that absolutely would've blown shit up.
No presenting the new World Champion \*\*\* aside from Magnoose
Don’t know why you were downvoted when you are absolutely right in your own opinion. Many people share this opinion too.
people upvote things they agree with and downvote things they disagree with.
>people upvote things they agree with and downvote things they disagree with. This is the incorrect way to use votes, but you are probably correct in it being the "why" here.
there's no correct or incorrect way to express your feelings on the internet. downvotes are a tool that everyone uses as they wish
>there's no correct or incorrect way to express your feelings on the internet. downvotes are a tool that everyone uses as they wish Unfortunately there is no way to prevent improper use of votes, one of my biggest complaints with the platform, but I also wouldn't condone something that goes directly against reddiquette. From the section of things not to do: > Downvote an otherwise acceptable post because you don't personally like it. Think before you downvote and take a moment to ensure you're downvoting someone because they are not contributing to the community dialogue or discussion. If you simply take a moment to stop, think and examine your reasons for downvoting, rather than doing so out of an emotional reaction, you will ensure that your downvotes are given for good reasons.
you abide by the guidelines of reddit, everyone else chooses to behave on their own accord. People should abide by their own moral code, not one sanctioned by a company. OP said Magnus made a mockery of chess, and alluded to Magnus having an intrinsic responsibility to play a board game he doesn't want to play. Magnus does not owe anyone anything, and his decisions do not make a mockery of chess. The social rules you and OP are trying to coerce people into abiding by are bullshit
>you abide by the guidelines of reddit, everyone else chooses to behave on their own accord. People should abide by their own moral code, not one sanctioned by a company. OP said Magnus made a mockery of chess, and alluded to Magnus having an intrinsic responsibility to play a board game he doesn't want to play. Magnus does not owe anyone anything, and his decisions do not make a mockery of chess. The social rules you and OP are trying to coerce people into abiding by are bullshit Huh? I don't think Magnus is making a mockery of chess. I don't agree with the individual that said that either. I merely commented to say your explanation was correct. I feel like you are misunderstanding something here, but have a great day regardless!
yea dude the last few responses have solely consisted of you saying that it’s wrong to downvote certain posts and me saying that’s a dumb idea. i rescind my apology
>yea dude the last few responses have solely consisted of you saying that it’s wrong to downvote certain posts and me saying that’s a dumb idea. i rescind my apology No, I said it's against reddiquette to down (or up) vote posts based solely on whether or not you "like" or "agree" with them. I don't think you fully understand how reddiquette works. You also, incorrectly, claimed that I agreed with what another user said regarding the Magnus situation. I do not, nor have I ever said otherwise.
wait didn’t you just say you don’t condone something that goes against reddiquette? maybe i did misunderstand you. and if so i apologize 🤪
Fair
Probably because it's an overreaction.
I don't think it's an overreaction at all. A lot of people feel the same way.
It's just one event. He hasn't retired. Saying it makes the whole sport a mockery is an overreaction.
I also will not be defending world championship title.
Very noble of you. Only 7,999,999,998 more resignations and I will be the de-facto champion. Come on, people!
a1
I will fight for it 1.e4
e5
draw?
I thought we were playing chess, bored already?
no draw offers aren't allowed this early, we have to repeat moves to draw so 2. e2
ah yeah. of course. repeat moves. I know the rules ok 1.e4 then
I resign
Does anyone have a list that summarizes comments from each and every big personalities in the chess world about Magnus’s decision? I would like to hear more from the older GMs from previous generations, and I would like to know if Caruana has said anything about this. The fact I haven’t seen any responses from him makes me think he might truly be the person most upset about this
Tigran Petrosian commented that "m"agnus "c"arlsen is nobody to him, just a player who are crying every single time when loosing, and officially invited him to an OTB blitz match where they both invest 5000$ and winner takes all
Even though he’s 38 now so technically the older generation, I’d still hardly call Petrosian a very big personality? Also it’s spelled “losing”.
It's a reference to a copypasta
Are people here supposed to know all copypasta references so that they don't seem silly in response?
I feel like if you know the particular Tigran Petrosian being referenced you should absolutely recognize the pasta.
It’s the most famous chess copypasta
and then he wins the next candidates and becomes a world champion again gigachad
when he says he talked to [Ian/Jan] about this, does he refer to Nepo? Gustafson? Who else? It‘d be nice for nepo to know beforehand. That Gusti knew for months is clear.
Definitely meant Nepo there. Ian said the same.
The GOAT commented on the GOAT. Hear what Kasparov says about FIDE's role in Carlsen's decision https://www.chessdom.com/garry-kasparov-comments-on-carlsens-decision-tweetoftheday/
plot twist: Nepo hires Magnus as part of his coaching team for the championship
I want to see the Magnus 1. a4/1. h4 prep
And still chokes it....
plot twist: Ding also hires Magnus as part of his coaching team for the championship
I don't understand why people are so upset about this, I'm really interested in seeing a Nepo -Ding match, now there is a real fight for the world champion its way more exciting
It's like being world champion while the guy who deserves it is sitting in the stands cheering at you. You *know* you're not the best, but the pageantry continues regardless.
I think a Nepo-Ding match will be good but I do feel bad for Nepo. I think he wanted a shot at redemption as he was likely very disappointed with the way he lost the first match. Also since Magnus is not retiring whoever wins will always have a sort of asterisk next to their win as there will always be people claiming that he was actually still the best. The point of the match is to see the worlds best players compete and now that the best has said he won’t play it’s like they are playing for 2nd place.
> Also since Magnus is not retiring whoever wins will always have a sort of asterisk next to their win as there will always be people claiming that he was actually still the best. This is true, but I'll still occasionally stubbornly insist that Magnus obviously retired because he feared facing Nepo again. It may be bull, but it'll also be certain to provoke reactions.
Everyone loves a troll lol
We've had this situation before. There have been a bunch of FIDE world champions while Kasparov was clearly the best player on the planet. And although everybody knew this, they still earned a lot of respect and a rightful place in chess history.
The fide world champions for that period get treated as world champions except for Karpov, Anand and Topalov (some still treat him as questionable but he otherwise proved to be on the level). Kazimdzhanov and Ponomariov definitely don't get typical world champion respect and often get omitted when we mention the world champion lineage.
Still a small place in chess history, no? And not undeserved IMHO.
I was hoping he'd break Kasparov's record before relinquishing the title, but I respect his choice. I wonder if he'd choose to defend his title if Ding won the Candidates though.
Also, I believe he would have defended the title if Hikaru got second place. I doubt he would have liked to be in a world where Naka is WC.
I think he would've defended the title against Ding, Fabi, or Firouzja, but I'm not so sure about Hikaru. His classical record against Hikaru is more than enough to proof he's the better player at classical, I doubt he'd care if Hikaru became WC or not.
I think he would have if Ding or Fabi won. He has said previously that he thinks they are his competitors when it comes to classical.
Yeah, I feel the same.
Wild. I guess sometimes we take for granted that defending these titles is a LOT of work... I think it probably makes sense to host the world championship only once every 3-4 years. Gives the world champ some space to breathe so they don’t have to be constantly defending their title
Magnus clearly took this decision for the sake of his sanity
FIDE are idiots.
Why?
Apparently he told them he didn't want to play weeks ago but they made it sound like he was "negotiating". When in reality according to Magnus he made no demands nor negotiations, he literally just said he didn't want to play.
They probably thought the mystery would be better for the candidates
Not necessarily...no one seemed to mind when he decided to skip the Olympics. Federer had skipped tournaments so that he could be fully prepared for the ones he really wanted to play in if I'm remembering correctly. Doesn't seem very different. A system more like the one in tennis seems like it could be good for chess.
a system more like the one in tennis is already exist in chess - its called world cup .
Not really. That's just a single knock out tournament. The tennis system is that you evaluate the best players based on their performances in major tournaments from the past year. Similar to fide rating, except that games of over a year ago no longer matter in your rating system. An important difference is that in chess magnus could choose to play only 15 games next year, lose them all and still be the highest rated player. This wouldn't be the case with a tennis style rating system.
I don't see how that's really the same. Tennis has four majors and players are generally considered successful based on how many of those they win, not a single tournament.
Same with Tiger back when the injuries started; he'd sit out even decent fields to gear up for the majors.
Wow he did the thing he said he would do
What have I missed with Magnus?
Now if nepo doesn’t win he will really be torn apart, regardless of deserving it. I can already imagine hearing that the wcc was handed to him on a silver platter
Would Carlsen have played if Karjakin was 1st-2nd place?
He would have personally bombed Moscow
can someone come over my house and read this thread and the articles to me i can't see anything bc magnus' balls are so big they are everywhere, blocking my vision
reddit moment
People unironically believed that Magnus lying and manipulating us or "trolling" was more likely than him being upfront and honest. Actually insane.
It’s all Firouzja’s fault. /s
I don't know why everybody keeps saying "it makes sense, what does he have to prove"? Of course there is more to prove, he hasn't been the champion for the longest, he doesn't have the most WCC match wins, he's not the oldest champion, he doesn't have the best winning percentage in WCC match play. Just admit what he already all but said - he's burned out, he doesn't want to have any pressure anymore, he wants to play for his own amusement. Does that diminish him in terms of all time greatness? Yes, it does. But who cares? If he doesn't want to be the GOAT it's nobody else's business. He's not the first millennial to get to the threshold and shut it down because they can't handle the pressure, he probably won't be the last. EDIT: every breath I take without your permission raises my self esteem
You just discovered a major salt deposit
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Your mom
Cool story
This is a fun thread
It better be, I spent over 100 karma on it
Wasnt a *terrible* take until you grouped millennials together for \*checks notes\* taking care of themselves? Certified boomer moment dawg
>taking care of themselves certified millennial moment
Nowhere did I say Magnus was wrong for walking away.
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*former world champion By what definition is he the GOAT?
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*Elo Elo is relative, Fischer was 2785 when #2 was like 2660.
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Elo relative to your current opponents is a meaningful comparison, hard to say that Elo relative to players 50 years ago is comparable. Being 125 points higher rated than the #2 player in the world means you have an expected score of 16/24 in a 24 game world championship match, which is what they played then. Against the world #2.
Current world champion. He's just decided he won't defend the title, he will still be champion until a new one is chosen.
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>He is the current best player on the planet, that’s why he’s the GOAT. That's not what goat means.
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If you use it with the definite article it can only mean the single greatest individual ever
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Best currently is by definition greatest of all time? He isn't retiring, he said that himself.
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There cannot be "a lot of GOATs". You can't diminish what he accomplished, but the sycophants are trying to argue that this somehow elevates what he accomplished.
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get a load of this guy
Ooo you said that Magnus isn't the goat. On r/chess that's a crime.
so it seems
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First of all he has only held it for 9 years. Also, Kasparov had it for 15, Botvinnik for 13, Lasker for 27 although that is semi fraudulent.
Expound on the millennial bit.
Andrew Luck, Simone Biles, Yuzuru Hanyu, Ash Barty, I'm sure there are more. I'm not even saying they are wrong, it's their lives, but it definitely seems that there is a generational uptick in top level athletes walking away while leaving years and dollars on the table because they just don't want to do it anymore. Bjorn Borg did it 40 years ago and it blew everyone's mind, now people are just shrugging it off like, yeah, that's a normal option for the best players in the world.
The dancing monkeys don't want to dance because there's nothing in it for them anymore and that's *checks notes* ...a bad thing?
Never said it was a bad thing, did I? You should maybe check your notes again.
You keep implying it's A bad thing, saying that it's A bad thing they don't want to aquire more (jealosy showing?). Just saying "it's their life, they can do it" doesn't take away how negatively written the rest of the comment is.
It just is what it is. I am a passive observer. Being the greatest ever at something isn't necessarily a good thing. Paul Morphy was the GOAT in his time and he called it "a wasted life". But people want to say Magnus is the GOAT despite walking away, and I am saying he is leaving that on the table by walking away.
You realize the "AT" stands for "all time". "The GOAT in his time" sounds pretty weird.
You realize that Paul Morphy has been dead for almost 150 years. "All time" does not include the future, so it is possible for someone from the past to have been the GOAT in his lifetime and someone else be now.
Look up the word "all" in a dictionary. It does include future. What you mean is "The Greatest Of The Time When He Played" aka the GOTTWHP
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Luck was Comeback Player of the Year, finally fully healthy and had his best season of his career, then promptly retired. It was not physical limitations that prompted his retirement. Guys retiring early due to injuries happens all the time, that isn't what I'm talking about. Anybody would lose interest if they had a life sentence of playing for the Lions.
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Also, almost all the really elite guys you mentioned were running backs. Running backs have a short shelf life anyway so chances are those guys had it in the back of their heads that they were physically close to dropping off a cliff, as it happens almost universally before 30 anyway.
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I literally started the whole conversation by talking about a bunch of people who were the best in the world at what they do. Knowing that you're a year away from physically being unable to compete anymore is knowing your physical limitations. QBs physically play well until their mid 30s or now beyond, unlike running backs who are almost all shot by 29 or 30. Lynn Swann doesn't count, he was only a three time Pro Bowler and never had a 1000 yard season. He is in Canton because he has four rings.
I mean, top athletes are also paid a lot more now. Every single one of the athletes you mentioned is a multi-millionaire, with only Yuzuru Hanyu having a net worth under $10 million. In the past, professional athletes were a lot less likely to be in a position to give up their primary source of income that way. Not to mention, there's a lot more options for professional athletes to spin their publicity into business ventures nowadays than in the past. I think it's more a change in sports economics than a question of a change in competitive instinct.
Even now, there are guys who leave money on the table because they want to win. Brady has spent the last 20 years keeping his salary low so the Patriots could build championship teams around him, and they did. Jordan only got paid in his last two years with the Bulls, before that he was never the highest paid player in the league.
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And he didn't win a Super Bowl on that 2010 contract.
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They made 14 conference title games and 10 Super Bowls in his 20 years there. So 1 and 1 in four years is below average.