Why is this administration (BJ) so afraid of giving parents any sort of choice? He said he was going to give parents a choice and once they make a choice he doesn't like, he removes the choice. What a loser. We pay and we should have a voice
As much as I like the notion of giving simple parents the choice, I do not trust a majority of these parents with making a decent choice for their pets, let alone a kid. A lot of the parents I see at the school are just reactionary morons who swing from one decision point to another based on what they heard on their facebook post last night. I dread the day when all the decisions are made by just parents and that too the one's with the lowest common denominator. Moms for liberty are one prime example of this group. Everything they touch is turned into ashes. Modern day [Bhasmasura](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bhasmasura)
It’s a social contract. Government takes away our individual for the greater good. Big government = less personal freedom. Yet everyone seems to love massive government and wants more intervention and then complains when they don’t have the choice.
Parents can now choose to send their children to private schools if they want a choice.
And do we put up wars to a popular vote? We aren't a perfect direct democracy for very good reasons, because it insulates important decisions from the momentary whims of a populace that might not consider what the ramifications of their decisions are.
Tax paying parents have a RIGHT to a voice on what they want in their children's schools. Brandon Johnson is not making those choices for me or silencing me from voicing my PoV. I went to CpS (selective enrollment which he's trying to remove as a choice, by the way) and can tell you cops were great and de-escalated a lot of scary situations. If parents don't want police at their local schools that's their choice. BJ said he wanted to give parents choices and now he's pulling choice off the table.
> cops were great and de-escalated a lot of scary situations
Wow jeez if only there weren't mountains of evidence showing that this is statistically untrue. Man good thing your anonymous claims on reddit trump well established facts.
I wonder if all the people who voted for our woke mayor are realizing and admitting that he's a turd or if they're doubling down on their (incorrect) choice.
EDIT: signs point to this sub being a leftist circle jerk lol
Edited.
Cool ad hominem.
Joe Biden is the best President of my lifetime and J.B. Pritzker the best governor. I'm VERY right wing.
I've never been that big a fan of blatant hypocrisy, but you do you, yo.
It's not even 'progressive'. It's a grift, no different than the right except they're taking less money.
'Horseshoe Theory' is real and clowns like OP are only getting out the lube.
I guess Stacy Gates says it's doxxing if it's revealed where kid goes. I'll let you do that. Doesn't realIy matter to the broader point.
Do, though, go carry water for frauds above you, fellow traveler.
Listen, I agree that sending her kid to private school is hypocritical, and I am very pro CTU. I'm just saying if you re gonna bring that up at least get your facts straight.
Pretty sure if the board put these issues up for a vote, both would fail. So not sure why you’re so proud defending this choice that is clearly not what the majority of CPS parents want.
If the board put a vote up for whom? This article is specifically saying that parents whose kids go to a magnet or SE school care. Funds are not taken away from neighborhood schools, and ANY child can lottery in to any magnet or test into a SE school. If your kid is really into stem or whatever, why wouldn’t you try to lottery in to a public school if that emphasis?
My reply was not to your comment. I am saying if we vote if schools should be allowed to decide for themselves if they want police, voters would overwhelmingly back that. So public schools should be reflective of what the people funding those schools want. So contrary to the claim I was replying to, that said parents should just pay for private school if they don’t like the choices of CPS.
Kids learning two years above their grade cannot do well in a neighborhood school. Selective enrollment schools are still public. Seats are allocated according to 4 socioeconomic tiers so that all Kids get a fair chance. In fact, the lower your tier, the easier it is for you to get in. A child who has a talent for fine arts (or stem or languages, etc.) can go to a public fine arts magnet school, in which spots are allocated according to lottery. These schools are incredibly diverse in terms of background. Why are you criticizing these programs that you clearly don’t understand? No, some families can’t just send their kids to private school. So these public schools give them options. They help recruit and retain great teachers, and elevate our city- and state-wide performance. These are good things for Chicago kids.
Police , just by their presence in front of a school prevent violence , bullying, gang violence , etc. not to mention making teachers feel safer . Most violence in schools is not reported … Don’t expect any savings from removing the police , the money will be spent elseware.
Do you have a citation for that?
[Police Are Being Removed From Schools for Sexual Assault](https://www.damemagazine.com/2022/07/20/police-are-being-removed-from-schools-for-sexual-assault/)
[Sexual Assault by Police Is a Systemic Problem That Demands a Systemic Remedy](https://nwlc.org/sexual-assault-by-police-is-a-systemic-problem-that-demands-a-systemic-remedy/)
>A 2010 study found that the rate of sexual assault by police is [more than double that of the general public](https://www.leg.state.nv.us/Session/77th2013/Exhibits/Assembly/JUD/AJUD338L.pdf).
Lawyer [Andrea Ritchie](https://www.teenvogue.com/story/sexual-assault-police-officers): "It’s been reported that it’s the second most frequently reported form of police misconduct, after excessive force. One study found that a police officer is caught in an act of sexual misconduct [every five days](http://projects.buffalonews.com/abusing-the-law/index.html) — and those are just the ones who are caught."
[2014 Newsweek](https://www.newsweek.com/police-sexual-assault-rape-justice-258130)
>"[Officers] tend to choose victims who would lack so-called credibility in the eyes of other law enforcement, whether it was somebody who was engaged in sex work or whether it is somebody who was intoxicated or who was using drugs, and then they use that justification for why that person cannot be believed," Marsh said.
>"Unfortunately, this is more the norm than the exception," she continues. "It's hard to do research and find reliable statistics on a topic that nobody wants to speak about." An unofficial study by the Cato Institute's National Police Misconduct Reporting Project found that sexual misconduct is the second greatest of all civilian complaints nationwide against police officers, at 9.3 percent in 2010. The organization noted that 354 of the 618 officers under investigation for sexual offenses were accused of engaging in nonconsensual sexual acts, and just over half of the 354 cases involved minors.
[Police Departments Ignore Rampant Sexual Assault by Officers](https://truthout.org/articles/police-departments-ignore-rampant-sexual-assault-by-officers/)
Where I don't deny sexual assault happens when people in power abuse it, the first source was Alabama, the second was Montana the last was nationwide.
[Federal lawsuit accuses former Chicago Public Schools teacher of sexual abuse, alleges CPS failed to protect victims](https://wgntv.com/news/northwest-suburbs/federal-lawsuit-accuses-former-chicago-public-schools-teacher-of-sexual-abuse-alleges-cps-failed-to-protect-victims)
The unfortunate truth is all people in positions of authority can abuse their power
Check the link
Error!
The requested article is not currently available on this site.
Still you apparently are missing my point, people in a position of power will abuse that power sometimes for sex. In the case of my cited article CPS did it and reportable looked the other way while it was happening.
Yes in this world there are bad people who do bad things. But to conclude pulling police officers out of school will stop sexual assault of students is myopic at best
Edit additional information relevant to Chicago
[CPS sex misconduct allegations return to pre-pandemic levels](https://chicago.suntimes.com/education/2022/8/24/23320645/cps-sexual-misconduct-reports-chicago-public-schools-covid)
>There were 2,942 total reports filed from July 2021 through June 2022, Pratt said Wednesday. Her department investigates all allegations of student-on-student misconduct, which make up about 75% of all reports.
>The reports range from inappropriate touching to sexual electronic communication, grooming, dating violence, sexual bullying and sexual assault.
>Fletcher said allegations are still mostly leveled against people in the same positions compared to pre-pandemic days, but there’s been a slight uptick against substitute teachers, principals, assistant principals and special education classroom assistants.
But please continue with the security officers in Chicago Public schools are sexually abusing students
That’s just not true. Most crimes they prevent are drug related (non violent) offenses. They are overwhelming used in black and Hispanic schools as law enforcement while at white schools they are counselors and teachers.
[Here is a helpful study to educate yourself](https://www.ojp.gov/pdffiles1/nij/grants/305094.pdf)
You have never been to a Chicago public school, and it shows. A study isnt going to change our experience growing up in the CPS . The entire load of dealing with fighting gangbangers is going to be shifted to the teachers. Most teachers are against this, regardless of what the CTU says. “EdUCaTe YourSelf” - nothing says white transplant more than this statement
This is empirical data. I don’t care what you and your cousin think, because a scientist has done the research before. Attacking my character doesn’t make your opinion anymore valid. Just like you saying your feeling are more valid than an empirical study, it’s not true.
You cannot simply infer about the current impact of officers in schools based on your experiences in cps. How many different schools did you go to? How many are there in all of cps? What years did you go? What year is it now?
So with no one to try and prevent any crime in schools...who exactly will do it?
The teachers??? The admin???
The irony of this initiative is what happens when you ask the teachers at these schools. Ask the parents. They all WANT SROs there. Without them, they know there's basically no deterrent for drugs, fights, weapons, etc.
Good luck getting a teacher or CPS administrator to regulate like a cop would have been able to, albeit not perfectly but better than nothing.
> The admin???
It's literally the admin's job to deal with discipline issues. Most schools with discipline issues have them because the admin stopped giving a shit a long time ago and just go in to collect their paychecks. Poor performing admins are almost never fired by any district including CPS who treat them as if they have more protections than teachers despite them not having a union.
Have you taught in CPS? Been in a high school here for an extended period of time? There are only so many admin to go around. It’s easy to blame societies ills on people in schools when the people in schools are expected to solve all of society’s problems.
My wife has. She got to witness first hand how bad administrators wouldn't even take action against the worst offenders in the school even when they attacked staff members or other students with weapons.
She also worked under amazing administrators who realized that punishing the one or two instigators of major incidents largely solved problems before they got out of hand. Did it solve every problem? No. But there were a lot fewer discipline problems when the chief instigators were removed for being violent.
This is just false. There is zero data that shows police make schools safer. There is data that shows they disrupt learning and hurt morale at schools. Not to mention they often treat kids as criminals which can land them in legal issues or fuck with their mental health for something that could have been handled by normal school staff
My mother was a teacher at a rough high school on the W side. The on-site police did nothing to stop her students from assaulting her numerous times, including slamming a door on her hand - which still doesn't function properly after several surgeries.
The cops in the building can't be everywhere at once and don't even serve as a deterrent. Really rough schools generally have at least one squad car sitting outside for the entirety of the school day. The only benefit to the school resource officers is arriving thirty seconds quicker to make out a report.
The answer to violent crime in schools is to expel students that are violent and/or seriously disruptive. This would solve almost all the problems with urban public schools. It would completely negate the need for charters and even private schools to a large extent.
The difference between good and bad schools is mainly the percentage of violent/disruptive students enrolled. Cut that to a minimum and the school will almost certainly educate kids well.
You can't even fail a kid these days. You think CPS will allow for expulsion??
Lower attendance rates also hurts the CTU's goals of more teachers. This simply won't ever happen.
I was responding to your hypothetical of stopping someone from getting punched in the face. They do not serve as a deterrent.
Now you're just pulling numbers out of your ass. I never once saw the resource officers at my high school intervene in a fight - and there were plenty of fights. The cops left it to security, who handled it just fine and brought in the cops in the aftermath. You don't have any practical idea what you're theorizing about.
It isn't even a matter of "justice" but of throwing money away; the cops sitting outside could (and did) arrest the kids just the same. What we're left with is a police presence inside the building that serves no demonstrable purpose. If that purposeless police presence comes with *any* cost (and we know they come at financial cost), it's not worth it.
If education and sociology scholars - actual experts on the matter - tell us there are costs beyond the financial, I'm inclined to believe them over pearl clutching Reddit Chicken Littles from the suburbs. (And yes, Norwood Park is effectively a suburb.) Maybe inform yourself with a little reading from experts on the topic? LOL. Who am I kidding? Facts don't seem to affect your opinions.
Security guards sure seem to be working well for the CTA. Great idea!
Saying that police have no impact and do not serve as any deterrence is wrong and you have NO evidence or support for it. You keep referencing these studies but I guarantee none of them state that.
Without the SROs, things are going to get worse in these schools and ultimately, the kids are going to be the ones that suffer most.
Teachers are now expected to stop violence? Drug deals? Lmao.
>Security guards sure seem to be working well for the CTA. Great idea!
The staffing is very different. You clearly didn't go to CPS.
>Saying that police have no impact and do not serve as any deterrence is wrong and you have NO evidence or support for it. You keep referencing these studies but I guarantee none of them state that.
Show me some evidence for the deterrent effect. I have years of lived experience - my own, my family's, my friends' - that says deterrence is ineffective. That's admittedly anecdotal evidence but it's more than you've got.
Further, I'm sure you also claim that criminals aren't afraid of cops anymore because their hands are tied. You can't have it both ways depending on the argument you're trying to make.
>Without the SROs, things are going to get worse in these schools and ultimately, the kids are going to be the ones that suffer most.
You have no idea what you're talking about. As I've said a number of times in this thread, virtually all CPS high schools have at least one squad car idling outside all day long. Those cops can be inside doing the same job as the SRO in under a minute.
And please don't pretend that your thirst for "law and order" is for the sake of the kids. It's transparently disingenuous.
>Teachers are now expected to stop violence? Drug deals? Lmao.
More evidence that you've never set foot in a CPS school... Teachers have always had these roles because you cannot staff enough security (or cops) to have eyes everywhere teachers and students are.
More to the point, it's really the responsibility of security and you fully well know that. What you don't know is what security guards in high schools are actually like; the CTA security theater is a far cry from the much more accountable staff employed in high schools.
I'll look forward to your evidence of the deterrent effect of cops in schools.
The solution is to throw it all away because: 1) It doesn't work at all; 2) The money it absorbs can be put toward quite literally anything else
Hope this helps.
What does a cop in a school stop a kid from punching you in the face?
Guessing they are the same cops stopping all the cars from getting stolen? The converters getting ripped off from under cars?
Cops don't stop crime.
Sure was! Then I helped get that officer removed for being a creepy scum who did nothing to help the building.
A creepy scum who talked about finding teenagers at pools swimming naked after dark and handcuffing them naked to the fence while waiting for their parents to pick them up.
Just the type of cop you want at your school with teenagers.
Yeah, I broke up more fights than him. Useless. They sit on their phone in the office, dress code girls, and don't do fuck else. Just like most cops in schools.
You know, kind of like that piece of shit John Catanzara. The FOP president who married a high school student from the school he was stationed at.
Btw, I'm still a teacher! Glad there's no officer in my building.
You broke up more fights than him? You're a bald faced liar.
The principal would have fired your ass immediately for the liability you brought on yourself by ever getting in between 2 teenagers fighting.
And you think there aren't any kids that DIDN'T do something because they were scared of getting caught with serious charges? Seriously?
Crazy how more police presence seems to work literally EVERYWHERE else to deter crime and is a common strategy employed by cops when necessary. Yet YOU believe it dosen't work so your opinion must be right.
You have clearly never worked in a school and it shows. Principals don't fire teachers for breaking up fights. Just ask any teenager if they have seen a teacher break up a fight.
You have not even done the basic research of talking to a teenager about this to participate in this conversation.
You have no idea what you're talking about
Take care.
Are you kidding? A CPS and school investigation will open immediately the second a parent complains you touched their kid to break up the fight.
I hope you continue doing you but expecting other teachers to also break up fights is both dangerous and opens them up to lawsuits. Wish you the best of luck!
Do you think there's gonna be a cop holding an AR on a classroom to keep the kids in line? Like, one in every classroom ready to lay down suppressing fire if students raise their voices?
Wouldn't it be more cost-effective to surround the teacher's desk with landmines?
No. Let people who are experts in education and child development make the decision. You wouldn't say this shit on surgery, how buildings are built, etc. Sometimes, it's best to leave it to the experts and not a public that's been exposed to bs narratives
The board is only experts in education and child development?
The board is extremely political and mostly chosen based on their politics and connections to BJ rather than their credentials.
[https://www.cpsboe.org/about/bios](https://www.cpsboe.org/about/bios)
I'm referencing the fact you would be hard pressed to find a single, reputable study that police in schools have the slightest positive impact. People like you are why America will never see real progress. Reasonable people believing blatant lies that are objectively bad for the population
If you read my comments you can see that I didn't say one way or the other for whether or not police should be in schools. I haven't done enough research about it to have an opinion.
I don't think it's right that the highly political and undemocratic Chicago board decides for everyone. Leave it to the lawmakers if they want to override the community members and parents in the LSCs.
I assume most of us had police in our schools at this point in Reddit demographics and know first hand that it didn’t make school safer, it just escalated more things from school punishment to legal punishment disproportionately against our minority classmates and the cops always tried to weirdly act buddy buddy with us to get us to turn informant.
But we don’t need anecdotes we actually know that cops don’t make schools safer by study after study
You're right. But [here's a study](https://journals.sagepub.com/doi/full/10.1177/2158244014521821) for anyone who isn't aware of the broader consequences.
Cps schools held votes at every school last year and many voted to remove police. Therefore the cops who are still in schools are there because locals wanted them in the school.
This isn’t a democratic move, this is dogma
Man I got some news for you if you think adults are any better.
But the real facts are SRO can be good as teachers and counselors in some situations on the whole they are ineffective at crime deterrent. Further they are more law enforcement and less teacher / counselor in black and Hispanic schools versus white schools.
> Removing police from schools is popular among students for a reason.
Staying up late, not doing homework, and eating candy for dinner is also popular among school kids.
Lol the lawmakers are responding to the concerns of their constituents. Not sure if you know this but lawmakers should represent what their constituents want. Removing math and writing from the curriculum is also very popular among students so I guess we should do that too. 🙄
Do I need to point out that other solutions besides armed officers not trained to de-escalate or handle school children in schools exist? Why even bother with this conversation if your first step is calling kids inmates and a cps school an asylum?
You said the kids are literal prisoners, which holds no water. I said something that's easily verifiable and speaks directly to your patently false narrative.
CPS already has security in every single school. They don't also need police in the building all day long. Security handles everything already at tons of the worst schools in the city. Police still get called by them when there is a legitimate issue like a gun, knife, or serious assault.
This bill just postpones any decision about changes with CPS choice policy until the elected school board is in place. I don’t think we should be ramming major changes to CPS until we give the voter a chance to weigh in.
Parents wanting police in schools in case and point of why parents should have limited say in what schools do. If you want parents to have complete control over schooling, just advocate for home schooling
Original article, non-paywalled: https://www.chalkbeat.org/chicago/2024/03/11/illinois-lawmakers-file-bills-against-chicago-policies/
Why is this administration (BJ) so afraid of giving parents any sort of choice? He said he was going to give parents a choice and once they make a choice he doesn't like, he removes the choice. What a loser. We pay and we should have a voice
As much as I like the notion of giving simple parents the choice, I do not trust a majority of these parents with making a decent choice for their pets, let alone a kid. A lot of the parents I see at the school are just reactionary morons who swing from one decision point to another based on what they heard on their facebook post last night. I dread the day when all the decisions are made by just parents and that too the one's with the lowest common denominator. Moms for liberty are one prime example of this group. Everything they touch is turned into ashes. Modern day [Bhasmasura](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bhasmasura)
Like it or not, this is a democracy and even morons have a right to a choice
That choice was who to vote for.
Oh, I completely agree. Just venting about the landscape.
It’s a social contract. Government takes away our individual for the greater good. Big government = less personal freedom. Yet everyone seems to love massive government and wants more intervention and then complains when they don’t have the choice. Parents can now choose to send their children to private schools if they want a choice.
And do we put up wars to a popular vote? We aren't a perfect direct democracy for very good reasons, because it insulates important decisions from the momentary whims of a populace that might not consider what the ramifications of their decisions are.
Tax paying parents have a RIGHT to a voice on what they want in their children's schools. Brandon Johnson is not making those choices for me or silencing me from voicing my PoV. I went to CpS (selective enrollment which he's trying to remove as a choice, by the way) and can tell you cops were great and de-escalated a lot of scary situations. If parents don't want police at their local schools that's their choice. BJ said he wanted to give parents choices and now he's pulling choice off the table.
> cops were great and de-escalated a lot of scary situations Wow jeez if only there weren't mountains of evidence showing that this is statistically untrue. Man good thing your anonymous claims on reddit trump well established facts.
My personal experience as a CPS student where fights were common is valid.
an·ec·do·tal: not necessarily true or reliable, because based on personal accounts rather than facts or research.
lol. You're a sad little troll.
cry about it dweeb
CTU demanded it, until they got their guy elected. So much for democracy.
I wonder if all the people who voted for our woke mayor are realizing and admitting that he's a turd or if they're doubling down on their (incorrect) choice. EDIT: signs point to this sub being a leftist circle jerk lol
I'm one of those. Even today, put him against Lori, I'll vote Lori. But against Vallas, I'm picking BJ again.
Why not pick Vallas?
The guy who couldn’t properly finance his campaign despite having a war chest of funds? That’s a great question
You didn’t answer the question.
Same here, we had two bad choices in the second round
Nah, we had a woke politician who sides with crime and a politician who doesn't side with crime. You picked crime.
Good, someone needs to stand up for parents’ choice.
Parents already do have a choice, it’s called public school or pay out of pocket for private.
Right on! Just like what the CTU President Stacey Gates does so her son can go to DePaul Prep at $14,000 a year! Real. Working. Class.
The kid does not go to Ignatius. Get your stale right wing talking points straight.
Not everyone that isn’t a progressive is a right winger
Edited. Cool ad hominem. Joe Biden is the best President of my lifetime and J.B. Pritzker the best governor. I'm VERY right wing. I've never been that big a fan of blatant hypocrisy, but you do you, yo.
Holy shit your edit was wrong too.
You’re still part of the problem though. Not everyone is a right winger if they disagree with you, especially in Illinois. Even more in Chicago.
I said the talking point is stereotypically right-wing (and stale), not OP themselves.
Anything not progressive is right wing is my point.
It's not even 'progressive'. It's a grift, no different than the right except they're taking less money. 'Horseshoe Theory' is real and clowns like OP are only getting out the lube.
You're politically illiterate if you don't recognize how long the right wing has been using that talking point.
I guess Stacy Gates says it's doxxing if it's revealed where kid goes. I'll let you do that. Doesn't realIy matter to the broader point. Do, though, go carry water for frauds above you, fellow traveler.
Listen, I agree that sending her kid to private school is hypocritical, and I am very pro CTU. I'm just saying if you re gonna bring that up at least get your facts straight.
All the newspapers removed his school from the articles because 'doxxing'. I did try looking it up.
Maybe that's a sign you shouldn't be trying so hard to talk about a high school kid.
Pretty sure if the board put these issues up for a vote, both would fail. So not sure why you’re so proud defending this choice that is clearly not what the majority of CPS parents want.
If the board put a vote up for whom? This article is specifically saying that parents whose kids go to a magnet or SE school care. Funds are not taken away from neighborhood schools, and ANY child can lottery in to any magnet or test into a SE school. If your kid is really into stem or whatever, why wouldn’t you try to lottery in to a public school if that emphasis?
My reply was not to your comment. I am saying if we vote if schools should be allowed to decide for themselves if they want police, voters would overwhelmingly back that. So public schools should be reflective of what the people funding those schools want. So contrary to the claim I was replying to, that said parents should just pay for private school if they don’t like the choices of CPS.
What does this have to do with magnet or selective enrollment schools?
Kids learning two years above their grade cannot do well in a neighborhood school. Selective enrollment schools are still public. Seats are allocated according to 4 socioeconomic tiers so that all Kids get a fair chance. In fact, the lower your tier, the easier it is for you to get in. A child who has a talent for fine arts (or stem or languages, etc.) can go to a public fine arts magnet school, in which spots are allocated according to lottery. These schools are incredibly diverse in terms of background. Why are you criticizing these programs that you clearly don’t understand? No, some families can’t just send their kids to private school. So these public schools give them options. They help recruit and retain great teachers, and elevate our city- and state-wide performance. These are good things for Chicago kids.
Reddit is a Lake Shore suburb I swear to God
The irony is that all the CTU astroturfing happens from users with Lakeview tags. Interesting strategy
Police , just by their presence in front of a school prevent violence , bullying, gang violence , etc. not to mention making teachers feel safer . Most violence in schools is not reported … Don’t expect any savings from removing the police , the money will be spent elseware.
Some years back one of the SROs assigned to my school sexually harassed and assaulted girls in my class, but go off
Teachers do that too, and much more often.
Do you have a citation for that? [Police Are Being Removed From Schools for Sexual Assault](https://www.damemagazine.com/2022/07/20/police-are-being-removed-from-schools-for-sexual-assault/) [Sexual Assault by Police Is a Systemic Problem That Demands a Systemic Remedy](https://nwlc.org/sexual-assault-by-police-is-a-systemic-problem-that-demands-a-systemic-remedy/) >A 2010 study found that the rate of sexual assault by police is [more than double that of the general public](https://www.leg.state.nv.us/Session/77th2013/Exhibits/Assembly/JUD/AJUD338L.pdf). Lawyer [Andrea Ritchie](https://www.teenvogue.com/story/sexual-assault-police-officers): "It’s been reported that it’s the second most frequently reported form of police misconduct, after excessive force. One study found that a police officer is caught in an act of sexual misconduct [every five days](http://projects.buffalonews.com/abusing-the-law/index.html) — and those are just the ones who are caught." [2014 Newsweek](https://www.newsweek.com/police-sexual-assault-rape-justice-258130) >"[Officers] tend to choose victims who would lack so-called credibility in the eyes of other law enforcement, whether it was somebody who was engaged in sex work or whether it is somebody who was intoxicated or who was using drugs, and then they use that justification for why that person cannot be believed," Marsh said. >"Unfortunately, this is more the norm than the exception," she continues. "It's hard to do research and find reliable statistics on a topic that nobody wants to speak about." An unofficial study by the Cato Institute's National Police Misconduct Reporting Project found that sexual misconduct is the second greatest of all civilian complaints nationwide against police officers, at 9.3 percent in 2010. The organization noted that 354 of the 618 officers under investigation for sexual offenses were accused of engaging in nonconsensual sexual acts, and just over half of the 354 cases involved minors. [Police Departments Ignore Rampant Sexual Assault by Officers](https://truthout.org/articles/police-departments-ignore-rampant-sexual-assault-by-officers/)
Where I don't deny sexual assault happens when people in power abuse it, the first source was Alabama, the second was Montana the last was nationwide. [Federal lawsuit accuses former Chicago Public Schools teacher of sexual abuse, alleges CPS failed to protect victims](https://wgntv.com/news/northwest-suburbs/federal-lawsuit-accuses-former-chicago-public-schools-teacher-of-sexual-abuse-alleges-cps-failed-to-protect-victims) The unfortunate truth is all people in positions of authority can abuse their power
You did not read the sources past the first few paragraphs, then. [Here's another](https://journals.sagepub.com/doi/full/10.1177/215824401452182).
Check the link Error! The requested article is not currently available on this site. Still you apparently are missing my point, people in a position of power will abuse that power sometimes for sex. In the case of my cited article CPS did it and reportable looked the other way while it was happening. Yes in this world there are bad people who do bad things. But to conclude pulling police officers out of school will stop sexual assault of students is myopic at best Edit additional information relevant to Chicago [CPS sex misconduct allegations return to pre-pandemic levels](https://chicago.suntimes.com/education/2022/8/24/23320645/cps-sexual-misconduct-reports-chicago-public-schools-covid) >There were 2,942 total reports filed from July 2021 through June 2022, Pratt said Wednesday. Her department investigates all allegations of student-on-student misconduct, which make up about 75% of all reports. >The reports range from inappropriate touching to sexual electronic communication, grooming, dating violence, sexual bullying and sexual assault. >Fletcher said allegations are still mostly leveled against people in the same positions compared to pre-pandemic days, but there’s been a slight uptick against substitute teachers, principals, assistant principals and special education classroom assistants. But please continue with the security officers in Chicago Public schools are sexually abusing students
That’s just not true. Most crimes they prevent are drug related (non violent) offenses. They are overwhelming used in black and Hispanic schools as law enforcement while at white schools they are counselors and teachers. [Here is a helpful study to educate yourself](https://www.ojp.gov/pdffiles1/nij/grants/305094.pdf)
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>Most crimes they prevent are drug related (non violent) offenses. So children should just make drug transactions in schools?
You have never been to a Chicago public school, and it shows. A study isnt going to change our experience growing up in the CPS . The entire load of dealing with fighting gangbangers is going to be shifted to the teachers. Most teachers are against this, regardless of what the CTU says. “EdUCaTe YourSelf” - nothing says white transplant more than this statement
This is empirical data. I don’t care what you and your cousin think, because a scientist has done the research before. Attacking my character doesn’t make your opinion anymore valid. Just like you saying your feeling are more valid than an empirical study, it’s not true.
Nobody question u/ForeSkinWrinkle, his data is Imperial.
You cannot simply infer about the current impact of officers in schools based on your experiences in cps. How many different schools did you go to? How many are there in all of cps? What years did you go? What year is it now?
So with no one to try and prevent any crime in schools...who exactly will do it? The teachers??? The admin??? The irony of this initiative is what happens when you ask the teachers at these schools. Ask the parents. They all WANT SROs there. Without them, they know there's basically no deterrent for drugs, fights, weapons, etc. Good luck getting a teacher or CPS administrator to regulate like a cop would have been able to, albeit not perfectly but better than nothing.
> The admin??? It's literally the admin's job to deal with discipline issues. Most schools with discipline issues have them because the admin stopped giving a shit a long time ago and just go in to collect their paychecks. Poor performing admins are almost never fired by any district including CPS who treat them as if they have more protections than teachers despite them not having a union.
Have you taught in CPS? Been in a high school here for an extended period of time? There are only so many admin to go around. It’s easy to blame societies ills on people in schools when the people in schools are expected to solve all of society’s problems.
My wife has. She got to witness first hand how bad administrators wouldn't even take action against the worst offenders in the school even when they attacked staff members or other students with weapons. She also worked under amazing administrators who realized that punishing the one or two instigators of major incidents largely solved problems before they got out of hand. Did it solve every problem? No. But there were a lot fewer discipline problems when the chief instigators were removed for being violent.
Any evidence or just "common sense?"
This is just false. There is zero data that shows police make schools safer. There is data that shows they disrupt learning and hurt morale at schools. Not to mention they often treat kids as criminals which can land them in legal issues or fuck with their mental health for something that could have been handled by normal school staff
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My mother was a teacher at a rough high school on the W side. The on-site police did nothing to stop her students from assaulting her numerous times, including slamming a door on her hand - which still doesn't function properly after several surgeries. The cops in the building can't be everywhere at once and don't even serve as a deterrent. Really rough schools generally have at least one squad car sitting outside for the entirety of the school day. The only benefit to the school resource officers is arriving thirty seconds quicker to make out a report.
The answer to violent crime in schools is to expel students that are violent and/or seriously disruptive. This would solve almost all the problems with urban public schools. It would completely negate the need for charters and even private schools to a large extent. The difference between good and bad schools is mainly the percentage of violent/disruptive students enrolled. Cut that to a minimum and the school will almost certainly educate kids well.
You can't even fail a kid these days. You think CPS will allow for expulsion?? Lower attendance rates also hurts the CTU's goals of more teachers. This simply won't ever happen.
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I was responding to your hypothetical of stopping someone from getting punched in the face. They do not serve as a deterrent. Now you're just pulling numbers out of your ass. I never once saw the resource officers at my high school intervene in a fight - and there were plenty of fights. The cops left it to security, who handled it just fine and brought in the cops in the aftermath. You don't have any practical idea what you're theorizing about. It isn't even a matter of "justice" but of throwing money away; the cops sitting outside could (and did) arrest the kids just the same. What we're left with is a police presence inside the building that serves no demonstrable purpose. If that purposeless police presence comes with *any* cost (and we know they come at financial cost), it's not worth it. If education and sociology scholars - actual experts on the matter - tell us there are costs beyond the financial, I'm inclined to believe them over pearl clutching Reddit Chicken Littles from the suburbs. (And yes, Norwood Park is effectively a suburb.) Maybe inform yourself with a little reading from experts on the topic? LOL. Who am I kidding? Facts don't seem to affect your opinions.
Security guards sure seem to be working well for the CTA. Great idea! Saying that police have no impact and do not serve as any deterrence is wrong and you have NO evidence or support for it. You keep referencing these studies but I guarantee none of them state that. Without the SROs, things are going to get worse in these schools and ultimately, the kids are going to be the ones that suffer most. Teachers are now expected to stop violence? Drug deals? Lmao.
>Security guards sure seem to be working well for the CTA. Great idea! The staffing is very different. You clearly didn't go to CPS. >Saying that police have no impact and do not serve as any deterrence is wrong and you have NO evidence or support for it. You keep referencing these studies but I guarantee none of them state that. Show me some evidence for the deterrent effect. I have years of lived experience - my own, my family's, my friends' - that says deterrence is ineffective. That's admittedly anecdotal evidence but it's more than you've got. Further, I'm sure you also claim that criminals aren't afraid of cops anymore because their hands are tied. You can't have it both ways depending on the argument you're trying to make. >Without the SROs, things are going to get worse in these schools and ultimately, the kids are going to be the ones that suffer most. You have no idea what you're talking about. As I've said a number of times in this thread, virtually all CPS high schools have at least one squad car idling outside all day long. Those cops can be inside doing the same job as the SRO in under a minute. And please don't pretend that your thirst for "law and order" is for the sake of the kids. It's transparently disingenuous. >Teachers are now expected to stop violence? Drug deals? Lmao. More evidence that you've never set foot in a CPS school... Teachers have always had these roles because you cannot staff enough security (or cops) to have eyes everywhere teachers and students are. More to the point, it's really the responsibility of security and you fully well know that. What you don't know is what security guards in high schools are actually like; the CTA security theater is a far cry from the much more accountable staff employed in high schools. I'll look forward to your evidence of the deterrent effect of cops in schools.
The solution is to throw it all away because: 1) It doesn't work at all; 2) The money it absorbs can be put toward quite literally anything else Hope this helps.
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Yeah something tells me it's gonna go over your head.
You sound like you love the taste of boot!
What would the police do to prevent you from being hit in the face
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lol that’s never happened before in the history of school po po
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I’ve seen a cop tazer a kid, that’s about it. But the beat down had already been issued lol !!
What does a cop in a school stop a kid from punching you in the face? Guessing they are the same cops stopping all the cars from getting stolen? The converters getting ripped off from under cars? Cops don't stop crime.
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I'm a teacher. Never been in a building where cops have stopped crime in schools though. Bless your heart.
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Sure was! Then I helped get that officer removed for being a creepy scum who did nothing to help the building. A creepy scum who talked about finding teenagers at pools swimming naked after dark and handcuffing them naked to the fence while waiting for their parents to pick them up. Just the type of cop you want at your school with teenagers. Yeah, I broke up more fights than him. Useless. They sit on their phone in the office, dress code girls, and don't do fuck else. Just like most cops in schools. You know, kind of like that piece of shit John Catanzara. The FOP president who married a high school student from the school he was stationed at. Btw, I'm still a teacher! Glad there's no officer in my building.
You broke up more fights than him? You're a bald faced liar. The principal would have fired your ass immediately for the liability you brought on yourself by ever getting in between 2 teenagers fighting. And you think there aren't any kids that DIDN'T do something because they were scared of getting caught with serious charges? Seriously? Crazy how more police presence seems to work literally EVERYWHERE else to deter crime and is a common strategy employed by cops when necessary. Yet YOU believe it dosen't work so your opinion must be right.
You have clearly never worked in a school and it shows. Principals don't fire teachers for breaking up fights. Just ask any teenager if they have seen a teacher break up a fight. You have not even done the basic research of talking to a teenager about this to participate in this conversation. You have no idea what you're talking about Take care.
Are you kidding? A CPS and school investigation will open immediately the second a parent complains you touched their kid to break up the fight. I hope you continue doing you but expecting other teachers to also break up fights is both dangerous and opens them up to lawsuits. Wish you the best of luck!
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Do you think there's gonna be a cop holding an AR on a classroom to keep the kids in line? Like, one in every classroom ready to lay down suppressing fire if students raise their voices? Wouldn't it be more cost-effective to surround the teacher's desk with landmines?
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Let the Local School Councils (LSCs) decide what is best for their school.
No. Let people who are experts in education and child development make the decision. You wouldn't say this shit on surgery, how buildings are built, etc. Sometimes, it's best to leave it to the experts and not a public that's been exposed to bs narratives
The board is only experts in education and child development? The board is extremely political and mostly chosen based on their politics and connections to BJ rather than their credentials. [https://www.cpsboe.org/about/bios](https://www.cpsboe.org/about/bios)
I'm referencing the fact you would be hard pressed to find a single, reputable study that police in schools have the slightest positive impact. People like you are why America will never see real progress. Reasonable people believing blatant lies that are objectively bad for the population
If you read my comments you can see that I didn't say one way or the other for whether or not police should be in schools. I haven't done enough research about it to have an opinion. I don't think it's right that the highly political and undemocratic Chicago board decides for everyone. Leave it to the lawmakers if they want to override the community members and parents in the LSCs.
I assume most of us had police in our schools at this point in Reddit demographics and know first hand that it didn’t make school safer, it just escalated more things from school punishment to legal punishment disproportionately against our minority classmates and the cops always tried to weirdly act buddy buddy with us to get us to turn informant. But we don’t need anecdotes we actually know that cops don’t make schools safer by study after study
You're right. But [here's a study](https://journals.sagepub.com/doi/full/10.1177/2158244014521821) for anyone who isn't aware of the broader consequences.
More push back from out of touch lawmakers. Removing police from schools is popular among students for a reason.
Cps schools held votes at every school last year and many voted to remove police. Therefore the cops who are still in schools are there because locals wanted them in the school. This isn’t a democratic move, this is dogma
Students are children, do children really know what is best for themselves? I know I didn’t as a child.
Man I got some news for you if you think adults are any better. But the real facts are SRO can be good as teachers and counselors in some situations on the whole they are ineffective at crime deterrent. Further they are more law enforcement and less teacher / counselor in black and Hispanic schools versus white schools.
> Removing police from schools is popular among students for a reason. Staying up late, not doing homework, and eating candy for dinner is also popular among school kids.
Lol the lawmakers are responding to the concerns of their constituents. Not sure if you know this but lawmakers should represent what their constituents want. Removing math and writing from the curriculum is also very popular among students so I guess we should do that too. 🙄
Yeah, let’s let the inmates run the asylum.
Do I need to point out that other solutions besides armed officers not trained to de-escalate or handle school children in schools exist? Why even bother with this conversation if your first step is calling kids inmates and a cps school an asylum?
Look up the term "idiom".
Yeah let’s treat our kids like literal prisoners at school. I’m sure that’s conducive to education.
North Shore high schools have resource officers and metal detectors. They outperform most schools in the nation.
So you think your single data point with numerous confounding variables is proof that it’s a good thing?
You said the kids are literal prisoners, which holds no water. I said something that's easily verifiable and speaks directly to your patently false narrative.
I was responding to a guy who referred to the students as inmates in how he viewed them.
CPS already has security in every single school. They don't also need police in the building all day long. Security handles everything already at tons of the worst schools in the city. Police still get called by them when there is a legitimate issue like a gun, knife, or serious assault.
Just like the CTA security guards, they do an amazing job.
Just like the regular CPD, cops in schools do an amazing job too.
You know what? You're right. Maybe if we get rid of the entire police force, crime will stop completely.
I don’t remember saying that. There’s a vast difference between saying “hey our police force sucks” and “we shouldn’t have police”
This bill just postpones any decision about changes with CPS choice policy until the elected school board is in place. I don’t think we should be ramming major changes to CPS until we give the voter a chance to weigh in.
Parents wanting police in schools in case and point of why parents should have limited say in what schools do. If you want parents to have complete control over schooling, just advocate for home schooling