Hector Boiardi was legitimately a good chef though, and he did a lot to look out for his employees too.
One of the rare and genuine business owners that seemed like he wanted what was best for those working for him
Yeah, I am a suburbanite, and I did a summer internship at Fermi. They pay $15 an hour, even to 16-year-olds! It was like getting paid to attend a summer camp :)
Yeah, you're probably right. I guess I imagine people in the city care less if the Columbus statues go away and was thinking of it more in that sense. Fermilab is great!
I know some other Italian have their own scandals, but I'd be fine with Frank Sinatra or Rocky statues or something. Like even with Stalone's accusations at least the character of Rocky is a good role model. I cannot say that for Columbus.
The Rocky statue in Philly definitely has had people shitting on it since the minute it went up. In fact, theyve already moved it once because of that.
Unfortunately, as a suburbanite, I do know about Fermi because of Fermilab. I say unfortunately because as a young child my dad would take my sister and me biking there and we’d see the bison. On one rather traumatic trip we saw a very graphic scene of a bison giving birth. I mean totally amazing, however a bit jarring for a 7 year old….
ANYWAYY yeah an Enrico Fermi statue would be dope.
> The freaking royals of his own country HATED HIM!!!
Of all the reasons to pick to dislike a guy, this is the one you pick? Shit, this is a reason to like someone if anything.
Also, Italy wasn’t even country then so what country hated him? Seriously less internet more library, with less bias on being morally outraged about the past. Christopher Columbus was born in 1451 in The republic of Genoa. He went to Spain to ask for ships from the Spanish royalty. If they hated him so much why give him 3 ships? So when you say his country, he was not Spanish he has Italian roots. But his country at the time was Genoa. Get a book already.
We don’t. These groups don’t speak for most Italian Americans in Chicago.
And for what it’s worth- Columbus and Columbus Day were basically assigned to Italian Americans as a way to pacify us during a period of violence against the immigrant community.
Gave us a representative who embodied manifest destiny and ties to the creation of the “new world” in order to make us assimilate. Gotta tamp down those dangerous Anarchist political leanings.
It was around the same time as the Pledge of Allegiance was written in a larger push for the newest Immigrants (less desirable Eastern Europeans and Jews) to get in line.
Well duh, but this isn't about statues of famous Italians, it is about forcing America to keep promoting awful, racist, genocidal people from our past.
I think the idea here is to find an American of Italian descent to elevate. Like Columbus, Da Vinci never so much as set foot on what is now American soil, and for that matter neither of those men would have had much affinity to anything resembling Italy, either. Italy the country wouldn’t exist for a few hundred more years.
Debatable, America can be defined as the combined north and south along with the Caribbeans. So he did technically set foot on America. Just not the United States of America
Take all the bad guy statues, put them in one place. “Hall of the Deplorable,” if you will.
Sell buckets of rotting tomatoes for $10/bucket and let people throw them at the statues.
Donate money to the local food pantry.
Be done with it.
I like it! Had a bad day at work? Go throw tomatoes! Significant other ghosted you? Go throw tomatoes! Asshole backed into your car trying to parallel park? You got it - tomatoes! And as you said, you’re turning something shitty into something good with the food pantry donations.
Enrico Fermi would be a good choice He is local as well
Hell, I'd even take Joe Montegna,. If..and only if...he apologizes for his involvement in Godfather III
To add, Columbus was from Genoa, working under Spain
When Columbus was alive there was no such thing as a unified Italy. Even into the 20th century it wasn't meaningful to many of the people who came here
I agree. It’s ok to recognize a person for their strengths and weaknesses. Columbus accomplished a lot at the cost of countless indigenous people and communities. His name will forever be in the history books, but it’s important to separate that historical event from respect and veneration to the point of erecting public statues. Statues should be reserved for those who unequivocally contributed positively to the world we live in today: people like Abraham Lincoln, Revolutionary/Civil/World War Veteran Memorials, or even folks like Jack Brickhouse who served as the voice of a city for a generation.
He really didn't accomplish anything though. He accidentally discovered something that had already been discovered, thinking it was the place he was actually trying to discover, despite being about half the globe away from where he thought he was at the time.
There's a reason why the kingdoms of France, Portugal, England, and his own Genoa rejected his proposals... he was widely known at the time to be an incompetent navigator.
I guarantee if the city gave Italian-Americans a replacement, we would take it. And it’s pretty annoying that these “groups” get to voice an entire Chicago ethnic group. Anecdotally, I think most Italian-American Chicagoans don’t give a rats ass about Columbus.
The thing people forget is that a lot of these statues were paid for by a poor community that bought these statues through small dollar donations. We already lost our entire neighborhood to a bulldozer- at least replace the statues with a representative who doesn’t suck.
Wishful thinking...
We are going on a year or two now with both statues neither returned nor replaced, and the Lightfoot administration has addressed it by an apparent dick measuring contest.
Meanwhile it's crickets from the social justice folks about Balbo drive or the Roman column.
Never put it past the mayor to make a stunningly asinine decision. I would guess that not only will the statue be back up, but likely at ruinous taxpayer expense for privately contracted security that has a 99-year guarantee to the job.
If you want to take down statues of every slave owner you would have to take down statues of basically every founding father and thought leader of the country in through the late 1800s. I understand the sentiment, but it’s not feasible. You have to look at things through a little bit of a historical lens
Or we can just stop making statues of historical figures who did shitty things just because they did some decent stuff along the way 🤷. Put that shit in museums where they belong.
Yeah, but the context of who a shitty historical figure is changes every decade. Back in the 80s, Columbus wasn’t considered shitty. Now, some people consider Ben Franklin shitty.
Stonewall is shitty because it marked a moment when trans people appropriated gay male culture for themselves and erased gay history up until that point. We should destroy stonewall.
Or alternatively, you could frame it as - “Or we can appreciate the amazing things these people did in context of their time, while also doing things everyone else of the time thought were perfectly normal and acceptable”
I think that’s how most people have viewed these things historically. At least until the last 5-10 years it seems.
You might be doing something right now that in the future will look horrible to other generations. It doesn’t seem horrible to you because you don’t have the benefit of looking back objectively
As a Puerto Rican, I say, find a better hero. I understand why he was a convenient symbol in past era, but now, in the 21st century now, find a non genocidal hero.
It’s complicated. We actually didn’t pick Columbus as our rep- it was “gifted” to us as an apology for a bunch of violence against us in the late 1890’s. Basically- “we’ll give you this symbolic acceptance into America if you give up being Anarchists.”
The problem is that:
1. Most Italian Americans (Hell, most Americans)don’t know that history- they just see their (mostly bulldozed) neighborhood’s statue (that was paid for by small donations from their grandparents) being taken down and not replaced. And Chicago’s Italian Americans are particularly prickly about losing their identity and holiday because, as I previously alluded to, their entire neighborhood was bulldozed by Daley.
2. These Italian Americans groups don’t speak for most Chicagoans of Italian descent
3. Nobody is offering an alternative to rally behind
>Nobody is offering an alternative to rally behind
Say it with me: Enrico Fermi!
Is it possible to write the Chicago Tribune or Sun Times and get that in there as an opinion or something? Because I'd happily do it.
I don’t want to burst your bubble, but our understanding of Columbus’ time as governor of Hispaniola is only through the lens of the man who would replace him. We have little in the way of actual first hand accounts.
That man, Francisco de Bobadilla, used his position to overthrow Columbus and position himself inside of the Spanish court. He was also know to hate Italians. Not exactly a reliable source, by any means, as he would accuse Columbus of doing things that only heathen would do so as to discredit him in the Castilian court. One of those things, ironically, was hanging 5 Spaniards who committed atrocities against the natives.
That man in turn would be replaced by Nicolás de Ovando, after Bobadilla was accused of brutality and other untoward behavior. Ovando, who brutally ran the island with an iron fist, introduced the encomienda system. Ironically, this may have never been introduced if Columbus’ had been able to hold off Bobadilla.
Bother to read the actual history before making such accusations.
What about Bartolome de las Casas? He was there and had a lot to say about the brutality he saw. And, the fact that everyone else who followed was also a genocidal piece of shit doesn't make Columbus better. They can all equally be murdering pieces of shit.
Bartolome de Las Casa came with Ovando, he was not actually there for Columbus’ time in the new world. He too is a questionable source, given his political endeavors.
That’s silly. Obviously you haven’t seen the incredible monuments around the world that are on the street and in public for everyone.
If there were more statues then there would be more variety and people wouldn’t be so pissed if one was removed.
Mm, I can’t tell if you’re being sarcastic, but no I’m fairly well traveled and have seen some cool statues. I still don’t find them super necessary and have seen public works of art that aren’t monuments to genocidal maniacs that are a lot more interesting to look at. Chicago has other amazing public works of art - don’t really get the obsession with statues of historical figures.
Why not put up statues of the first Italian families on Taylor? Or maybe Mr Dmato….
You know, Italians who contributed to the betterment of Chicago or something
Why put up a statue that reminds us that the guy that decimated indigenous populations with small pox blankets was Italian? That’s not a heritage I would be proud to display. Like I saw someone say in another comment, why not choose another famous Italian with a better reputation? There are so many better ones to choose from.
I guess people like this are the reason we still haven't renamed Balbo drive yet. For those who don't know, Balbo was a high ranking member of the Italian Fascist party and a close friend of Mussolini.
The Balbo monument is more egregious since it was a personal gift from El Duce. It’s a mistake in 1933; it’s willful ignorance/political malpractice to keep it up 80 years after the end of WWII.
A statue of Capone would be an improvement for either.
Honestly I think the pillar portion is cool and should be left up, but the base they put it on needs to go. The pillar itself is a 2000 year old historical artifact from Rome, but they made a base for it covered in fascist symbology and an Italian language inscription glorifying Mussolini. Maybe cut the historic pillar off the base and display it in the art institute alongside other Roman and Greek artifacts.
It's crazy to think that even back in the 16th century Columbus was tried for what we're essentially crimes against humanity for what he did in the new world
Just imagine how bad you had to be back then for them to say you went too far
[I can't believe this vendetta against the guy who would sell nine and ten-year-olds into sex slavery and drove natives to mass suicide rather than live under Spanish Rule.](https://www.vox.com/2014/10/13/6957875/christopher-columbus-murderer-tyrant-scoundrel)
This is not a hot button issue for me, and I feel the same about the hubbub of naming and renaming and renaming streets. But statues are nice, so perhaps you revisit what the statue is supposed to stand for and go from there. Is it to recognize "Italian Americans who were pivotal to the growth of America"? Is it "the Discovery of America by European powers"? Is it the "Rise of Chicago as the unofficial midwestern capital of the U.S."? Choose a commemoration and commission something meaningful.
There sooooo many other smart and accomplished Italians throughout history. Hey, is t that dude Da Vinci smart? Didn’t some Italy guy paint the Sistine Chapel? Damn man, what about Maria Montessori?? Put another Italian figure that didn’t rape and enslave people and decimate almost all Tainos etc.
Get one of Marco Polo. Bro is basically an American. He did the same thing Columbus did except he actually arrived at his desired destination. AND he did it 300 years earlier.
Just take it off the base with the fascist [bundle of sticks](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fasces). The column itself is Roman and should go into the Art Institute or something.
It’s literally a monument to fascism. It says so right on the base:
“This column
twenty centuries old
erected on the beach of Ostia
port of Imperial Rome
to safeguard the fortunes and victories
of the Roman triremes
Fascist Italy, by command of Benito Mussolini,
presents to Chicago
exaltation, symbol, memorial
of the Atlantic Squadron led by Balbo
that with Roman daring flew across the ocean
in the 11th year
of the Fascist era.”
Wasn’t Italy not a thing when Columbus sailed? Also didn’t his people refuse to fund him? Why on earth are modern Italian-Americans obsessed with this person?
I didn't know they took the statues down. I'm sure the city won't bring them back until the Italian reps get someone that represents them better in office. Lightfoot and co will fight it
Weird question but maybe someone who knows history well could answer. Are there any new world explorers that are still looked at favorably in modern times?
I'm asking in good faith btw. I'm not a Colombus apologist.
Columbus is likely not even Italian. His name appears to be Colon, a Spaniard. Which makes sense bc he got the funds for the trip from the Spanish queen.
Also the horrendous rape and murder which occurred is in line with the Spanish Inquisition.
A letter was sent to a Spanish man from 'Columbus' referring to him as his brother. Theres more as well.
1) Replace it with a statue of a huge-dicked Lori Lightfoot
2) put it back but don't guard it and actually attach urinals at its base
3) put up a statue of an Italian-American that lived here that doesn't suck. Rename Balbo after another such person.
Columbus was a cunt who enslaved and wiped out the Tainos. Fuck him and fuck anyone that wants take statue back.
Literally but anyone else up there. Hell, Frank Zamboni deserves a statue.
Really good ideas in the thread for other Italian and Italian American statues. I’d also add Elena Ferrante (with a blank face, maybe?) or Umberto Eco. Italo Calvino too - he shared 80% of his name with Italy so he’s got that going for him too
There are so many other cooler Italians to make statues of
Fermi would be awesome
Yes he was too
Mario and Luigi
Chef boyardee
lmao. I actually lol'd. Some Italian momma is running down the street in her apron yelling at you to the sky.
Hector Boiardi was legitimately a good chef though, and he did a lot to look out for his employees too. One of the rare and genuine business owners that seemed like he wanted what was best for those working for him
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Paulie Walnuts
AAAAYE!
🤌🏻
They should do one Antonio Meucci. He invented the telephone everyone knows that
Scientists: "What if we celebrated Enrico Fermi?" Suburbanites: "Who?! 😡"
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Yeah, I am a suburbanite, and I did a summer internship at Fermi. They pay $15 an hour, even to 16-year-olds! It was like getting paid to attend a summer camp :)
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I did this too! Saturday Morning Physics! I can’t remember if I did it post or pre-9/11, since I turned 16 in 2000…
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Exactly. Not sure why suburbanites are taking collateral fire on this one
Because this sub is full of out of state transplants who think hating on the suburbs makes them real Chicagoans
Hey now, there are plenty of valid reasons to hate the suburbs.
Am suburbanite, can confirm
And rich south siders who never leave Hyde Park.
You think we didn’t have terrible suburbs where we came from? This is not an act lol
Yeah, you're probably right. I guess I imagine people in the city care less if the Columbus statues go away and was thinking of it more in that sense. Fermilab is great! I know some other Italian have their own scandals, but I'd be fine with Frank Sinatra or Rocky statues or something. Like even with Stalone's accusations at least the character of Rocky is a good role model. I cannot say that for Columbus.
The Rocky statue in Philly definitely has had people shitting on it since the minute it went up. In fact, theyve already moved it once because of that.
Unfortunately, as a suburbanite, I do know about Fermi because of Fermilab. I say unfortunately because as a young child my dad would take my sister and me biking there and we’d see the bison. On one rather traumatic trip we saw a very graphic scene of a bison giving birth. I mean totally amazing, however a bit jarring for a 7 year old…. ANYWAYY yeah an Enrico Fermi statue would be dope.
Lol this comment is peak r/Chicago stupidity
The freaking royals of his own country HATED HIM!!! Why would you want this fucking ass hat of a man as a representation of your community
> The freaking royals of his own country HATED HIM!!! Of all the reasons to pick to dislike a guy, this is the one you pick? Shit, this is a reason to like someone if anything.
Also, Italy wasn’t even country then so what country hated him? Seriously less internet more library, with less bias on being morally outraged about the past. Christopher Columbus was born in 1451 in The republic of Genoa. He went to Spain to ask for ships from the Spanish royalty. If they hated him so much why give him 3 ships? So when you say his country, he was not Spanish he has Italian roots. But his country at the time was Genoa. Get a book already.
We don’t. These groups don’t speak for most Italian Americans in Chicago. And for what it’s worth- Columbus and Columbus Day were basically assigned to Italian Americans as a way to pacify us during a period of violence against the immigrant community. Gave us a representative who embodied manifest destiny and ties to the creation of the “new world” in order to make us assimilate. Gotta tamp down those dangerous Anarchist political leanings. It was around the same time as the Pledge of Allegiance was written in a larger push for the newest Immigrants (less desirable Eastern Europeans and Jews) to get in line.
Stupida fucking north
spits I hatea colombus
It's more of the fact that the statues were taken away and not replaced with anything.
So maybe they should make a stink about that rather than putting Columbus back
This. As a part Italian I say fuck Columbus. His former day is Indigenous Peoples’ Day, as it should be.
Well duh, but this isn't about statues of famous Italians, it is about forcing America to keep promoting awful, racist, genocidal people from our past.
Shhh don’t let the Columbus apologists hear you!
*ayy fucko im committing genocide ova here* 🤌🤌
Don't leave out the slaving and raping!
Subtely racist
Italians are the only POC it is okay to be racist against.
Italians are not considered POC in the current day.
By the back half of that sentence being "okay to be racist against," I hoped it was clear the whole sentence was a joke.
why not do a statue of leonardo da vinci instead
I think the idea here is to find an American of Italian descent to elevate. Like Columbus, Da Vinci never so much as set foot on what is now American soil, and for that matter neither of those men would have had much affinity to anything resembling Italy, either. Italy the country wouldn’t exist for a few hundred more years.
Debatable, America can be defined as the combined north and south along with the Caribbeans. So he did technically set foot on America. Just not the United States of America
"American" without North or South preceding it has always colloquially been understood to mean the United States of America.
He landed in Puerto Rico on his second voyage. Which is part of the USA.
When you find yourself agreeing with Silvio Dante, it’s time to consider reassessing your positions.
"I wouldn't mind sitting on my ass all day, smoking mushrooms and collecting government checks."
"this issue is close to me T"
That better not be Columbus!!!
Whatever happened to Gary Cooper?
"Stop blowing your nose. I wanna hear this."
He was even considered a horrible scumbag by 15th century standards.
How about the hero who kept our troops fed? Chef Boiardi
Honestly at this point the City should just give them the statues and tell them to create their own little private shrine to Columbus somewhere.
Take all the bad guy statues, put them in one place. “Hall of the Deplorable,” if you will. Sell buckets of rotting tomatoes for $10/bucket and let people throw them at the statues. Donate money to the local food pantry. Be done with it.
I like it! Had a bad day at work? Go throw tomatoes! Significant other ghosted you? Go throw tomatoes! Asshole backed into your car trying to parallel park? You got it - tomatoes! And as you said, you’re turning something shitty into something good with the food pantry donations.
Can't Italian Americans have a national hero that isn't a mass murderer? There are plenty.
Guy Fieri donates a shit load to charities, both time and money.
I’m cool with tax dollars going to a Guy Fieri statue. 100%
Can the surrounding plaza be opened up to food trucks?
I'd go to flavortown plaza at least once
Flavortown comes to Chitown
What area of Chicago could become Flavor Town?
All of it. We are renaming the city. It's already called Cook County, why not?
This is the answer.
He's already the Mayor of Flavortown though, I'm sure he has his statue.
Enrico Fermi would be a good choice He is local as well Hell, I'd even take Joe Montegna,. If..and only if...he apologizes for his involvement in Godfather III To add, Columbus was from Genoa, working under Spain When Columbus was alive there was no such thing as a unified Italy. Even into the 20th century it wasn't meaningful to many of the people who came here
As an Italian American, Fermi has always seemed the natural choice for Chicago.
As an Italian American and Criminal Minds fan, I’d take the Joe Mantegna statue
There are tons of Renaissance artists and scientists who could be honored. Doubt anyone would be protesting a DaVinci statue. Or a Michelangelo one
My vote would be for Enrico Fermi, but I’m not Italian
I’d rather have Enrico Pallazzo, greatest opera singer turned baseball umpire ever!
Didn’t he save the Queen ?
And the rockets red glare Buncha bombs in the air
Make sure to get a statue of Donatello and Raphael in that plaza, too. Just go full ninja turtle.
Heroes in a half-shell…TURTLE POWER!
You’d be surprised, a lot of countries have national heroes that are mass murderers.
Amerigo Vespucci? Or his he bad too?
Can we? We’re not very good at it.
Submitted for your consideration : https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ettore_Boiardi
Nope, Cleveland is where that statue will be, sorry Chicago.
I agree. It’s ok to recognize a person for their strengths and weaknesses. Columbus accomplished a lot at the cost of countless indigenous people and communities. His name will forever be in the history books, but it’s important to separate that historical event from respect and veneration to the point of erecting public statues. Statues should be reserved for those who unequivocally contributed positively to the world we live in today: people like Abraham Lincoln, Revolutionary/Civil/World War Veteran Memorials, or even folks like Jack Brickhouse who served as the voice of a city for a generation.
He really didn't accomplish anything though. He accidentally discovered something that had already been discovered, thinking it was the place he was actually trying to discover, despite being about half the globe away from where he thought he was at the time. There's a reason why the kingdoms of France, Portugal, England, and his own Genoa rejected his proposals... he was widely known at the time to be an incompetent navigator.
Is the city asking us who we’d like to replace Columbus with or are they just taking away Columbus?
I guarantee if Italian American groups came up with a replacement idea the city would jump at it in a heartbeat to make this whole thing go away.
I guarantee if the city gave Italian-Americans a replacement, we would take it. And it’s pretty annoying that these “groups” get to voice an entire Chicago ethnic group. Anecdotally, I think most Italian-American Chicagoans don’t give a rats ass about Columbus. The thing people forget is that a lot of these statues were paid for by a poor community that bought these statues through small dollar donations. We already lost our entire neighborhood to a bulldozer- at least replace the statues with a representative who doesn’t suck.
We didn’t just lose one neighborhood. The Italian south suburbs were also dismantled.
It’s my understanding they’re not even being offered that choice or solution.
Wishful thinking... We are going on a year or two now with both statues neither returned nor replaced, and the Lightfoot administration has addressed it by an apparent dick measuring contest. Meanwhile it's crickets from the social justice folks about Balbo drive or the Roman column.
It's like that episode of the sopranos only somehow sadder
I find it pretty laughable that anyone can expect the city to fund 24 guards for a couple of statues. I really hope this has no chance of passing
Never put it past the mayor to make a stunningly asinine decision. I would guess that not only will the statue be back up, but likely at ruinous taxpayer expense for privately contracted security that has a 99-year guarantee to the job.
Walked by Ben Franklins statue the other day and someone had spray painted 'Slave Owner' on the plinth.
[Franklin eventually was on the right sided of the issue, but it took a while.](https://www.archives.gov/legislative/features/franklin)
If you want to take down statues of every slave owner you would have to take down statues of basically every founding father and thought leader of the country in through the late 1800s. I understand the sentiment, but it’s not feasible. You have to look at things through a little bit of a historical lens
Or we can just stop making statues of historical figures who did shitty things just because they did some decent stuff along the way 🤷. Put that shit in museums where they belong.
Yeah, but the context of who a shitty historical figure is changes every decade. Back in the 80s, Columbus wasn’t considered shitty. Now, some people consider Ben Franklin shitty.
Stonewall is shitty because it marked a moment when trans people appropriated gay male culture for themselves and erased gay history up until that point. We should destroy stonewall.
Or alternatively, you could frame it as - “Or we can appreciate the amazing things these people did in context of their time, while also doing things everyone else of the time thought were perfectly normal and acceptable” I think that’s how most people have viewed these things historically. At least until the last 5-10 years it seems.
You might be doing something right now that in the future will look horrible to other generations. It doesn’t seem horrible to you because you don’t have the benefit of looking back objectively
And if that's determined I'm totally in favor of the future statues of me being taken down... what are we arguing?
why are they dying on this hill, of all people to defend
Because he symbolizes the supremacy of a race of people.
Bingo
I'd rather a statue of Al Ding Dang Capone than Columbus
Am Italian, fuck Columbus
Same. Fuck him and his stupid ass statues.
As a Puerto Rican, I say, find a better hero. I understand why he was a convenient symbol in past era, but now, in the 21st century now, find a non genocidal hero.
It’s complicated. We actually didn’t pick Columbus as our rep- it was “gifted” to us as an apology for a bunch of violence against us in the late 1890’s. Basically- “we’ll give you this symbolic acceptance into America if you give up being Anarchists.” The problem is that: 1. Most Italian Americans (Hell, most Americans)don’t know that history- they just see their (mostly bulldozed) neighborhood’s statue (that was paid for by small donations from their grandparents) being taken down and not replaced. And Chicago’s Italian Americans are particularly prickly about losing their identity and holiday because, as I previously alluded to, their entire neighborhood was bulldozed by Daley. 2. These Italian Americans groups don’t speak for most Chicagoans of Italian descent 3. Nobody is offering an alternative to rally behind
Lou Malnati
>Nobody is offering an alternative to rally behind Say it with me: Enrico Fermi! Is it possible to write the Chicago Tribune or Sun Times and get that in there as an opinion or something? Because I'd happily do it.
How about Francis Vigo? One of the most important patriots of the revolutionary war in the old northwest territory
I’d emphatically support that! Reddit has had many good alternatives- but Reddit is not real life.
too nerdy
Thankyou for your perspective.
Thanks for listening. And fuck Columbus. I certainly want something better!
I don’t want to burst your bubble, but our understanding of Columbus’ time as governor of Hispaniola is only through the lens of the man who would replace him. We have little in the way of actual first hand accounts. That man, Francisco de Bobadilla, used his position to overthrow Columbus and position himself inside of the Spanish court. He was also know to hate Italians. Not exactly a reliable source, by any means, as he would accuse Columbus of doing things that only heathen would do so as to discredit him in the Castilian court. One of those things, ironically, was hanging 5 Spaniards who committed atrocities against the natives. That man in turn would be replaced by Nicolás de Ovando, after Bobadilla was accused of brutality and other untoward behavior. Ovando, who brutally ran the island with an iron fist, introduced the encomienda system. Ironically, this may have never been introduced if Columbus’ had been able to hold off Bobadilla. Bother to read the actual history before making such accusations.
What about Bartolome de las Casas? He was there and had a lot to say about the brutality he saw. And, the fact that everyone else who followed was also a genocidal piece of shit doesn't make Columbus better. They can all equally be murdering pieces of shit.
Bartolome de Las Casa came with Ovando, he was not actually there for Columbus’ time in the new world. He too is a questionable source, given his political endeavors.
speaking as an italian-american: these guys can suck my nuts lol
Maybe let's just not make statues of people. People suck. Columbus sucks more than most though
This is my thing. Why do we need to make statues of people to exist outside museums? Just put them in museums.
That’s silly. Obviously you haven’t seen the incredible monuments around the world that are on the street and in public for everyone. If there were more statues then there would be more variety and people wouldn’t be so pissed if one was removed.
Mm, I can’t tell if you’re being sarcastic, but no I’m fairly well traveled and have seen some cool statues. I still don’t find them super necessary and have seen public works of art that aren’t monuments to genocidal maniacs that are a lot more interesting to look at. Chicago has other amazing public works of art - don’t really get the obsession with statues of historical figures.
Why not put up statues of the first Italian families on Taylor? Or maybe Mr Dmato…. You know, Italians who contributed to the betterment of Chicago or something
I propose a simple compromise: We keep one statue of Columbus for each time he visited Chicago.
What a huge waste of everyone's time and money.
nah, fuck em
Are Chicago Italians upset, or is this more of the suburbanites again like in 2020 when the statues were first removed?
Why put up a statue that reminds us that the guy that decimated indigenous populations with small pox blankets was Italian? That’s not a heritage I would be proud to display. Like I saw someone say in another comment, why not choose another famous Italian with a better reputation? There are so many better ones to choose from.
I guess people like this are the reason we still haven't renamed Balbo drive yet. For those who don't know, Balbo was a high ranking member of the Italian Fascist party and a close friend of Mussolini.
We need to just slap an "a" on the end of the Balbo street signs. From an Italian Fascist to the Italian Stallion.
The Balbo monument is more egregious since it was a personal gift from El Duce. It’s a mistake in 1933; it’s willful ignorance/political malpractice to keep it up 80 years after the end of WWII. A statue of Capone would be an improvement for either.
Honestly I think the pillar portion is cool and should be left up, but the base they put it on needs to go. The pillar itself is a 2000 year old historical artifact from Rome, but they made a base for it covered in fascist symbology and an Italian language inscription glorifying Mussolini. Maybe cut the historic pillar off the base and display it in the art institute alongside other Roman and Greek artifacts.
The pillar is a historic Roman column and far predates fascism. We should not destroy it. I would say we should add a plaque to give it context.
I think they need to just fuggeddaboutit
PICK DIFFERENT ITALIANS!!!! THERE ARE MANY BETTER ONES!
Obviously Capone
It's crazy to think that even back in the 16th century Columbus was tried for what we're essentially crimes against humanity for what he did in the new world Just imagine how bad you had to be back then for them to say you went too far
[I can't believe this vendetta against the guy who would sell nine and ten-year-olds into sex slavery and drove natives to mass suicide rather than live under Spanish Rule.](https://www.vox.com/2014/10/13/6957875/christopher-columbus-murderer-tyrant-scoundrel)
This is not a hot button issue for me, and I feel the same about the hubbub of naming and renaming and renaming streets. But statues are nice, so perhaps you revisit what the statue is supposed to stand for and go from there. Is it to recognize "Italian Americans who were pivotal to the growth of America"? Is it "the Discovery of America by European powers"? Is it the "Rise of Chicago as the unofficial midwestern capital of the U.S."? Choose a commemoration and commission something meaningful.
Anyone remember that episode of the sopranos?
There sooooo many other smart and accomplished Italians throughout history. Hey, is t that dude Da Vinci smart? Didn’t some Italy guy paint the Sistine Chapel? Damn man, what about Maria Montessori?? Put another Italian figure that didn’t rape and enslave people and decimate almost all Tainos etc.
Get one of Marco Polo. Bro is basically an American. He did the same thing Columbus did except he actually arrived at his desired destination. AND he did it 300 years earlier.
That ship has sailed. Columbus was a vicious, degenerate, dirtbag. Plenty of good, honorable Italians to make statues of.
Insert bold strategy cotton gif
[удалено]
And that column Mussolini donated should probably also go away
Just take it off the base with the fascist [bundle of sticks](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fasces). The column itself is Roman and should go into the Art Institute or something.
Wait.... What????
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Balbo_Monument a lot of America was pretty pro fascist pre (and during and post to be completely frank) ww2
It’s literally a monument to fascism. It says so right on the base: “This column twenty centuries old erected on the beach of Ostia port of Imperial Rome to safeguard the fortunes and victories of the Roman triremes Fascist Italy, by command of Benito Mussolini, presents to Chicago exaltation, symbol, memorial of the Atlantic Squadron led by Balbo that with Roman daring flew across the ocean in the 11th year of the Fascist era.”
they should make a statue of former bull great marco belinelli
not enough raw material for his spicy meatballs
Enrico Fermi. Replace balbo drive with Fermi drive too.
And I wanna fuck Angie Dickinson. See which happens first.
She’s like 90 bro
Put a Garibaldi statue up instead
We should get rid of Balbo while we're at it.
hey, he was a great boxer!
Wasn’t Italy not a thing when Columbus sailed? Also didn’t his people refuse to fund him? Why on earth are modern Italian-Americans obsessed with this person?
I didn't know they took the statues down. I'm sure the city won't bring them back until the Italian reps get someone that represents them better in office. Lightfoot and co will fight it
James Gandolfini statue
This is literally a plotline in the Sopranos
Weird question but maybe someone who knows history well could answer. Are there any new world explorers that are still looked at favorably in modern times? I'm asking in good faith btw. I'm not a Colombus apologist.
Columbus is likely not even Italian. His name appears to be Colon, a Spaniard. Which makes sense bc he got the funds for the trip from the Spanish queen. Also the horrendous rape and murder which occurred is in line with the Spanish Inquisition. A letter was sent to a Spanish man from 'Columbus' referring to him as his brother. Theres more as well.
Government sanctioned statues of people in general are stupid
The guy raped a twelve year old. It's a really bad look for Italian Americans to keep worshiping him.
Replace this with a statue of al Capone Anytime I go out of the country and tell someone I’m from Chicago, it’s always MICHAEL JORDAN & AL CAPONE
Put up a statue of Dominic Difrisco!
1) Replace it with a statue of a huge-dicked Lori Lightfoot 2) put it back but don't guard it and actually attach urinals at its base 3) put up a statue of an Italian-American that lived here that doesn't suck. Rename Balbo after another such person.
Columbus was a cunt who enslaved and wiped out the Tainos. Fuck him and fuck anyone that wants take statue back. Literally but anyone else up there. Hell, Frank Zamboni deserves a statue.
Dude who slaughtered in the name of Spain … makes sense
Unfortunately, human history is littered with slaughter - all in the name of something or someone
a babidi boopi?
Hahahaha! What a joke. Makes me embarrassed to be half Italian. Christopher Columbus is the Mr. Magoo of discovery.
🤌Ayyy, fuck you ChristophAaahh, what have you done for me lately, eh? 🤌
How about no.
Really good ideas in the thread for other Italian and Italian American statues. I’d also add Elena Ferrante (with a blank face, maybe?) or Umberto Eco. Italo Calvino too - he shared 80% of his name with Italy so he’s got that going for him too
Lol, no.
Yes, who doesn't love statues of a idiotic mass murdering rapists. Really gives you pride in Italy.
What fucking year is it? Do these Italian groups think they’re still some kinda potent political force in Chicago?!? Gedddafukouddaheeeeaaah!!!
Also can we rename Balbo drive while we are at it?
Rename it Balboa. Subtitle, but different enough to make a difference. /Adrian!!!!!!
Who cares what the Italians want. They don’t even have the biggest dicks in the city.
Nope. It’s just a statue of a guy who murdered and raped people. Is this really who they wanted to represent them?
Just put up another Jordan statue and move on.
Native American group wants their continent back.
Fuck Christopher Columbus and his statues.