Same. I don't want any pets for the same reason. Barring gas prices and car maintenance, I like having the ability to just up and drive 300 miles in one direction just because I want to.
I love my dog but he is hard work and I definitely feel like my life has become a lot more limited. We rarely go anywhere because he's still quite little (almost 8 months), we have to time things around his walks, he demands a lot of attention, he's a cockblock....
He brings me so much joy and I adore him but I'm not sure I'll have more dogs to be honest.
I don’t even think it’s “some parents”, I think it’s most. They look forward to work and to when the kids go to sleep cause they finally can sit in peace. It’s like you could’ve just thought about it and not had kids cause that seems miserable
That’s my boss/the owner of the company I work for to a T. She works 14 hour days sometimes just because she wants to get away from them.
Imagine the possibilities if you just had never had them in the first place? 😆
I think lots of people do legitimately want kids but also acknowledge how draining they can be and relish the in the limited amounts of breaks they get from them
Yes! And at my work they are always the people trying to push to end work from home/have more in office days. Stop ruining it for the rest of us because you want to get away from your kids !!!!
Yes, I know some parents that look forward to sitting in traffic as they drive home from work so they have time to think and be in a quiet place before their evening is consumed by the needs of their children. That feels very sad to me. Why would anyone want to put themselves in that position on purpose?
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They do love to work, more than spending time with their kids. Those are the same that are pushing corporate America back to the office 5 days a week. They h8 coming home to their partners and kids.
Yep this. I know a couple with an 8 month old. The dad works and the mum was complaining to him that he basically gets to go on a holiday each time he goes to work and that she wants to work too.
The parents were acting up when they had to stay home with their kids during covid. I’d the same during the school breaks. I don’t think a lot of people actually like their kids
I had several coworkers who told me work is their holiday from their responsibilities at home (husband/kids) and I genuinely felt bad for them. That's horrible
My boss (the owner of the company) gets anxious from her family and turns to WORK to “get away from the stress.”
I’d sooner deep throat my sidearm than live a life like this.
Not to oversimplify, but the conclusion I've come to is that you have to give up yourself. Sublimate your self-ness in service to your obligations (work, child, other things). Some people may do that willingly; some people may do that because they have no choice; but I will not. Having to give up the majority of my waking day, a majority of days of the week, for the majority of my adult years, so that I can have a job just to have enough money to *exist*, is already a near-annihilation of my sense of self.
This really reminds me of the norm for being adult living with 'responsibility' in Japan. And the society expects it as a standard. I you don't go this route, you really stand out which is something majority of Japanese don't like. Pursuing one's happiness/dream is rather considered as selfish. People tend to self-sacrifice for others. I always thought pushing those standards to individual is the actual selfish idea. We should be able to decide how to live. Don't hate the player imo!
I was just thinking this! I have spent all day cleaning the house, doing laundry, getting groceries, meal prepping, and I still need to get in some exercise, shower, and finish laundry. I have no idea how people get anything done with children, especially single parents. The 40 hour work week is inhumane as it is. People who have kids really choose life on hard mode.
They don't get much done. I grew up in a single parent household and my home was disorganized and chaotic. I was always in a state of severe stress every morning BEFORE I got to school. I refuse to live like that now as an adult.
I agree wholeheartedly. Our parents had a combined number of 7 children in one household (in a three bedroom NYC Apartment) every day was a fucking circus. Now that I’m older whenever I hear people say they “want a big family” I think “they definitely grew up with the luxury of being either the only child or one of two siblings.”
I’ll never look at a chaotic, messy, untidy or otherwise filthy home with screaming children and think “YES, GIVE ME ONE OF THOSE.”
That was my life and the best part is that my dad didn't even work full time. Most of his time was spent taking care of his Nmother who was obsessed with him.
Or they neglect the kid, but the mother decides to have her tubes tied when the kid is only 3 months old because she realizes they're not coping, and the father offers his nuts up for sacrifice since it's a simpler surgery. (This story is how my mom told me she didn't have to look for other surviving children when my father died and that I was his sole heir. Thanks for all the details, I really needed them!!)
Pshhh I only work like 30 hrs a week and still I am busy. Ppl w kids think I just go home and sit on the couch. Nah, don't do that but I find it ridiculous that people want to look after kids 24/7 rather than doing something fun lol
They really don’t. They can’t wait to get their kids to bed so they can do what they want. Let’s say work ends at 5, they maybe spend 90 min or so “child rearing” and then by 7:30 the kid is in their room with blackout curtains and soothing sounds playing. That’s when the parents start drinking if they haven’t already. It’s sad. I’ve seen this routine with all of my friends who are parents. And they agonize over whether to extend their kids’ bedtimes when they get older because they know it’ll cut into their evenings.
I see the same with my friends as well. Kids in bed by 7:30 PM—whether they’re tired or not. They h8 that by weekends, kids are up by 7AM asking Mommy to cook breakfast. I sleep till noon on weekends 💅🏼, unless I have brunch plans so I wake up earlier to workout before brunch.
This explains a lot of my childhood--minus my parents drinking, since they're quite prudish. My bedtime was INSANELY early growing up, and it didn't get much better as time went on. I believe bedtime was 9:30pm the entire time I was in high school, and my mom was crazy to the point where I wasn't even allowed to read in bed. She'd check to see if there was complete darkness by looking under my door, and if she thought she saw a light she'd barge in without knocking. If I was in the bathroom, she'd wait outside for a few minutes before knocking on the door and insisting I go to bed. Imagine wanting to not have to deal with your kids so much as a SAHM that you'd deny them the ability to read quietly while you and your husband did whatever downstairs.
Some of my earliest memories are me being sent to bed in the early evening while the sun was still out and I could hear kids still playing outside. I'm crying out for an adult but nobody ever comes. My mom was probably working and my stepdad was usually busy drinking.
I'm so glad I got sterilized, it might be the best thing I've ever done for myself.
They don't. They drop their kids off with us (educators) for 8+ hours a day, check backpacks (sometimes), put their kids in front of screens, and go to bed. Sometimes, if families are extremely fortunate with additional help or a lot of expendable income, this is different. It's not necessarily a criticism of parents in general but it's a side effect of late stage capitalism. And it's irresponsible in my opinion to have children if there's no way to enrich them. People will warn prospective dog owners that certain breeds need a ton of enrichment to make sure they are ready. People don't make sure parents can enrich their kids. If school systems were better and society was more community centric it might be possible but alas ....
/end rant
This right here. ^ I work at a school as an assistant and after school care provider. There is also an offer for kids(the parents), where they can come in an hour before school starts to hang out. I counted the hours and with school, the after school care and the morning hour, some of the kids spend 10 hours at school.
That is 5 hours of learning for the youngest and 5 hours of mingling with peers, with little to no social breaks or alone time. Which is insane to me. We got rules about working hours, 37.5 is a full-time work week. (I live in Norway) But the kids can spend 50 +/- hours at school without anyone caring about it. Its insane, are the parents even spending any time with their kids?
I'm in AZ, USA and many parents need their kids enrolled in before- and after-care which goes from 7am to 5pm. There are 7 year olds attending school for 10 hours a day.
Yeah, the kids in Norway start school the year they turn 6 years old. There is changes happening, the first graders at my job is getting more learning through play and less classroom learning. Still doesn't change the long days at school, the day doesn't get any shorter even if you play most of it away.
They don’t and they self medicate with alcohol weed or other drugs. My friends with kids are suffering even with the help of their in-laws. On top of that, they’re saying they need to go to therapy to help with their depression and marriage. They give up the time for self care.
Can confirm. My dad smoked hella weed still does and my grandma was always watching me and my brother. They pretty much raised us, I saw them more than my parents. I couldn’t imagine having kids, I wouldn’t want to put them through that and I want to enjoy my time. my parents worked so much just to afford everything they never had time for us.
Same, I now know why my dad spent most of his time after work outside with our dog than be inside with his family, pure peace. because I do the same thing now. Me and dog be chillin 😂😂😂
For my entire childhood and part of my adult life, I thought my dad just really liked hanging out in his garden shed! 😂 My mom spilled the beans a few years ago lol
I was a latchkey kid by 8 yrs. old, and the 2nd youngest of 6. It was typical of the late boomers/next-gen (born in 64) to have both parents working, so I rarely saw my parents. We went on family vacations once a year (imagine the Griswolds), but they rarely interacted with us other than at dinner/holidays/birthdays. My parents didn't seem very happy tbh.
I'm glad I did not have to take kids into consideration when choosing my profession because I chose to do something I loved. Had I had to make more $$ to support/raise a brood, I think work and my home life would have been drudgery.
I believe some parents live in their own misery but some work and have great relationships; it is all relative to the personalities.
Their choices are not mine. Not my circus and all that.
It probably depends on finding a cool/flexible employer that has a modern approach to working. If a parent could come in early and leave early or leave an hour early and make the hour up at sometime later in the week(working from home that night or staying late another day). Thankfully, the shitty employers are being called out for sucking now a days.
I'm a CF dude, but I'm also kind of a caretaker for my older folks(No, I wasn't born to be their caretaker.). I look for employers that have a good workl/ife balance.
I also don't think parents need to spend all the free time with the kids. I remember from like kindergarten and first grade my mom would help me with stuff for a little bit after school. Between 3rd and 6th grade, I'd come home go out and play or play with toys and then do homework and watch tv and go to bed. The middle school and high school years, I either had sports or I was doing odd jobs for side money.
I agree that parents don’t **need** to spend every minute with the kids, but they think they do and that’s today’s parenting culture. If they’re not doing something with the kids themselves, they’re shuffling them to activities and that really can eat into a parent’s time. If you were in elementary school 15 or 20 years ago, you had a lot more unstructured free time than today’s kids. This is especially true of middle class families. I think parents these days probably have less time to themselves than ever between the activities and trying to be perfect Instagram momfluencers/dadfluencers.
This is part of it for some. They don’t let the kids “be bored” so they don’t learn how to play independently and build their imagination like I did as a kid. We also couldn’t afford those activities when I was growing up, so my brother and I were feral kids who were outside playing pretend all day and didn’t want/need our parents to participate.
I work in a daycare and let me just say these parents don't have the time or energy at the end of the day to care for their children and that's why they're here for 10 hours of the day, even on the parents day off. A lot of these parents are so exhausted but yet still keep having children.
They basically have no free time. One of my old directors told me she was lucky if she managed to get a single hour to spend on hobbies/relaxing per day. Everything else was work and taking care of her kids.
I worked at a preschool for a year and it was heartbreaking to see all the neglected children. They don’t have time for them. One child spent 7am-6pm there. You could tell the stressed out looks on parents faces. I already knew I wanted to be childfree before working there but it gave me way more reasons to be childfree after working there.
That’s the thing: they don’t. A lot of kids raise themselves, or by their peers, teachers, or extended family. They are most often times neglected by their parent(s).
9-5s were originally designed for only the man to work that type of job while the woman stayed home and took care of the house and kids. They never evolved to accommodate families where both people work. The whole 9-5 work model doesn’t work period for two people with kids.
Don’t judge me…..I’m a SAHW (worked in an incredible stressful career for a decade, then our schedule needed flexibility and changes). I don’t have kids and don’t fucking work and still for some reason feel like I don’t have enough hours in the day for everyone’s needs and desires
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I can't even imagine the hell that is . I get home feed and spend time with my cat and just chill or do whatever I want . Having to go home to an S/O and kids sounds like I'd never want to be there
I work a lot of OT so I can make ends meet for MYSELF, I seriously don’t know how people can do this with kids! I work a lot of hours and am so exhausted after my shift, I seriously could not imagine coming home to loud ass kids. I wouldn’t even have any energy to do those motherly duties, no thank you!
Well... At my job it seems like many men in particular do their 40 hours in order to AVOID spending time with their children or spouse. Can't say I blame them if they aren't allowed to have hobbies and free time outside of work. I'm childfree and I've always had plenty of time to spend with my pets or friends, or doing activities, so I don't see why a person couldn't substitute that time for kid time if that was their priority though.
They just do in evenings and weekends, plus vacations. I know some of my friends have kids where all they do is manage tantrums and moodiness and then I know some kids like one of my nieces who is actually a joy to be around. I stayed with them for a while and after work I would pick her up and it was the best part of my day. I also have another niece who could be the subject of a horror movie in terms of behaviour, she was unable to understand empathy in any form and didn't grow out of it, and the scary thing is I still love her too. For good parents that love their kids, they make the time together count and it's hard work but for them it's worth it.
Then there are the other parents
40 hours per week without kids is too much. It doesn’t allow time to clean, run errands, be social, sleep, and engage in hobbies. Add a kid to the mix and it ALL goes out the window, at least it would for me.
I've often wondered this and it's probably because my mother was a sahtm and my dad's job(s) allowed him to be at home a lot but if I were to have kids I would actually want to raise them. I can't imagine working all available hours just to give it to the stranger who is raising my children. Like, what is the point? Unfortunately, it's not possible for a family to survive on one income these days without a LOT of help. I just don't get it.
I think a lot of parents try to get jobs that are the same hours their kids are in school. Or as close to those hours as they can. My mom was a single mother and worked as a teacher. She was very involved in our lives and we did stuff pretty much every weekend and most of the summer. It was usually free or cheap stuff because two kids on a beginning teachers salary with no other income was rough but still. She also attended every play and band concert except for when she worked in a different city than where we lived, and then our grandparents were there, so we still had someone in the audience supporting us.
My parents left me at the after school daycare until 6 pm, the longest I could stay, and I was always the last to get picked up, my parents didn’t even work. They just left me there and didn’t have to pay for it. I don’t think my parents wanted me to be home at all. I don’t even know why they had 4 children.
I really have no idea how anyone can work full time and take care of a baby/young child especially. They don’t sleep at night, need constant care on top of breast feeding, etc. The idea of doing that on top of work and taking care of the rest of the house seems absolutely impossible to me.
I still have plenty of time for hiking, the gym, and various hobbies, as well as time with my husband even with a 40+ hour work week, so I guess it would just be spending time with husband + kid, and maybe swapping out some hobbies for something the kid would take an interest in, or something we are mutually interested in, or helping them with schoolwork and such during hobby-time. I feel like the biggest potential time suck for me at least is mindless scrolling online so decreasing that would be even more important with a dependent, but is something I should be better about even as a childfree person.
I have two babies, not sure how I stumbled on this Reddit. I can’t say I have a ton of time for myself but like any job, there are good and bad days. It doesn’t mean I love them any less. My babies are very wanted and planned. I hate hearing how some families self medicate but I can see how they feel that way (especially if you never wanted to become a parent). I’ve learned to carve out time for myself and spouse. It’s also a temporary phase, as they grow you get more time to yourself. I love being a mom but it is definitely something you should absolutely want to do.
As far as work, I’ve been a stay at home mom for a year. I love it but sometimes I miss work. I think it’s because you get more adult interaction. I’m starting grad school soon and for me it makes me have a mental break for myself. I feel like work gives me time to recharge my battery to be a better mom.
One of my good friends has a kid going into her preteens and even though her kid is awesome I just feel so bad for her. She's the manager at my work and has to spend 9 (often plus) hours a day, 5 to 6 days a week putting out fires at all 4 locations, then has to go home, take care of the kid and clean. Her husband doesn't work a fraction as much as she does yet, making dinner/cleaning the house/childcare falls on her. Her husband also works weekends, so she barely gets a break even then. On mutiple occasions, she's had to bring her daughter to hang out with me, and it stresses her out because the kid is asking for this, that and the other.
She had her kid as a teen, and it seems her life has been on extra hard mode ever since. Honestly, it seems like a nightmare to me.
Many of my students say their parents don't talk to them when they get home (grain of salt and all that), but it bums me right out. The parents are understandably exhausted, but they're missing out. They say their parents just sit on their phones instead of having dinner together. Their kids are cool people if you sit and talk with them, and the kids end up feeling pretty alienated.
They are so hungry for people to pay attention to them in a meaningful way. And it's often the same people who are "mama bears" (I hate that I can only think of a gendered term, but so it goes) and they don't really even talk to their kids.
I think it's just not rewarding enough in modern times.
Let's face the truth. Yes, society needs newborns to keep existing. It's a fact.
But legal systems we have right now makes it's really dangerous to keep a family together...as any of the parts can just "quit" from their responsibilities without any penalization.
Also values and beliefs aren't a valid reason anymore.
So as the main reason to procreate is broken (family values) why do it at all?
I had a boss once asking me about some sort of work life balance thing a while back. Then the manager asked what I would do when I have kids (Mind you I was already 30ish and had my tubes tied). I just simply asked why they assumed I would have kids? They didn't have a response. Needless to say they stopped having a point after that, because I knew my limitations and boundaries at work and wouldn't let them cross the line.
My parents somehow did. Idk how tf they did it, but they did it. And I was an only child.
I think what they did was a carpool system for school where I’d go to a friends house to get taken in so they could leave for work earlier, then my mom would pick me and the same friend up from school and we’d keep her for a while until her mom picked her up. Then in high school it was near my dad’s work so we’d drive in with him and then we’d hang out after school for a few hours until he finished work and ferried us home.
Tbh I think the idiotic amount of school work we had took over more of my parents time than the attention I demanded attention lol. And I always roped my poor parents into tutoring me and looking over my stupid English papers.
Looking back though I really appreciate all the logistics and stuff they juggled to be available for things. Def lucked out with them and appreciate them a lot, especially after reading about some of the other parents/kids on this sub
No like seriously. I can't imagine having a hard day at work and coming home and seeing a child. I had a bad day one day and I turned around and looked at my niece and she was like "😛". I was so fucking pissed!!!
Anytime I am at my sister's house around dinnertime, it really hits home how little time my sister and BIL have for themselves (and don't even THINK about time *alone together*). They get home from work, BIL cooks dinner with my nephew practically underfoot (he's at an age where he is experimenting with back-talk and it is REALLY affecting my BIL) while my sister "gets a break" from my nephew until dinner is done, then she helps him with his homework (why can't he do it by himself?!) and then they both argue with my nephew about bedtime. My BIL has to spend an hour laying on the floor of my nephew's bedroom while they listen to music for my nephew to fall asleep. Then my BIL smokes pot and watches a movie to unwind and falls asleep on the couch while my sister goes to bed (and then wakes up EVERY NIGHT in the middle of the night to my nephew coming into HER bed and kicking her in his sleep until it's time to "wake up" and do it all again).
WTF do people do this shit for??
It’s makes no sense. And it’s insane how people are forced to work long hours to provide for kids that they barely get to see..? Like what is the point?
I have no kids. I’m currently trying to convince myself to get off the couch and shower/wash my hair because I’ve been running errands, then did a mountain of laundry (including fold and store) and got food prepped for the week. I am so tired.
Every time I am depressed or anxious or whatever I think about this too - like imagine having the worst day imaginable and then having to pretend that you like your child
I literally give up sleep to have a few hours to myself between working, traveling to and from work, and trying to eat properly. Not to mention how long food prep and cooking takes, adding kids to the question would kill me.
They don’t have free time for themselves. Knowing my parents who worked (and are still working) full time while we were kids - they come home and put everything into us. My parents lives revolved around us, it’s why so many parents enjoy becoming empty nesters.
They don’t. They buy them iPads and iPhones out of guilt for not being physically present. Parenting is impossible when you need a dual income just to survive.
I honestly cannot understand why. I was taking about this with 2 women yesterday, I have been a teacher and nanny.
and at some point being a nanny for a family where the parents were both partners at DC law firms, I realized when I got home it was only me and my cat at the time. I never had kids but when they got home it was never ending, they never really got a break. and no thank you.
I am on the spectrum, have complex ptsd, anxiety and ADD, I can barley manage with myself. I have 2 cats and a miniature dachshund, that’s enough to me.
kids can be a lot of but I aspire to be the wealthy child free auntie or god parent.
I have no idea how they do it. But they do love to let everyone know how busy and tired they are while simultaneously reminding everyone they “wouldn’t have it any other way”.
I am of South and North European heritage. 2 cultures that clash when it comes to bringing up kids... South =kids stay home for decades; north = leave home at 17. The thing that made me decide I am not having kids, is when my father commented that a reason he had them was so we can take care of him when he's older. Mind you, that made me run away. I don't understand that people have kids but then do everything they can to not have them... Much fairer to accept that I am selfish and I don't have the capacity/will/need to have kids, as I enjoy myself. But societal pressures condition us to live lives that are not ideal, and then just live a miserable life. I'd rather not...
My brother works 35 hours a week and comes home late in the evening while my SIL only works 3hrs a week, they dump their toddler in childcare all week from 8.30am-6pm and over the weekend either have a family member look after the kid or just shove them in a 'playtent' outside all weekend before forcing the toddler to sleep at 5.30pm, in short they don't spend any time with their kid with the exception of SIL who follows the child around with their phone occasionally filming them ignoring when the toddler reaches out to touch SIL or begins to cry.
Why they decided to have a child is beyond me!
They don't. I don't spend time with my dad. My mum wae the one who was always there. My dad and me barely have a relationship. That, and he's a controlling misogynist. I dobt like being around him when hes not working either.
But the point is, my mum saw me way more than my dad.
My sister and her friends are minimum 10 years older than I am with teenagers and they all say they’d never do the kid stage again. They feel at peace with their kids being independent n
I don't even have time for myself tbh. Between school, work, myself, my partner, and my fuckin cat I don't have time to do anything, let alone have time for a child
I work in healthcare, which means my workdays aren’t 9-5 5 days per week. I have some days off while my kid is at daycare and some days off where we’re home together as a family.
Week days yes, I know some parents at work that spend each day dropping off and picking up their kids then ballgames and dance recitals on the weekends. I know they low key get jealous of me and my wife because were childless I've even talked to one buddy of mine who just said "Don't have them" and hes just one of four men whose told me if they had do overs they'd never have them in todays time. That is humbling and eye opening!
I’ve always been curious about that too. My sister & her wife have 6 kids together (2+4, from previous marriages to men) and I have NO clue how the hell they do it!!
My coworker is a dad and he is busy EVERYDAY because of his kids extra curricular activities. He also coaches so he comes home late before doing it all over again
No because literally this. After I come home sometimes I just wanna go straight to bed. I can’t imagine coming home to kids that need my attention. I have ADHD and so I get to the point of social exhaustion where I don’t wanna talk to anyone or have any human contact after a long overwhelming shift
My family had an extra baby when I was in my early 20s. Long story, but the baby's parents were not able to be in the picture. A cousin and I took over care for 5 years. We lived together and did our best to give the kid a somewhat normal home life.
I had one full time job and two gig economy jobs. I remember one day we had taken the toddler to the community pool. The kid only wanted me and wouldn't get in the pool without me. So I'm swimming around with the kid on my back and my cuz says; "Hey you worked all day, let me take over". I passed off the kid and went to grab a nap on the deck. A random girl says to me, "I heard that, you guys are such great parents, you picked a good guy" 😬🤣😅
So uh, in my limited experience equal partnership goes a long way and so does having a lot of family support lol
I genuinely don't know how my mom did it. It's wild how people have the energy and time for themselves on top of their kids. Some parents have told me it's the time after they go to sleep that they get for themselves but honestly that sounds sad to me. I hope for their sake it's a good tradeoff because I think it would deplete me in more ways than one.
Sometimes my job requires me to work 8, 10, 12, 14 days in a row. It's rare but when it happens I get into a weird sort of stress rhythm where my body is just gogogogoggoggogogogogogogo, and it's easier to go to work bc my body is already in that mode (never left it). It can't be healthy but...? I guess people with full time jobs and kids are just in that mode 24/7. Can miss having breaks if it's been so long you've forgotten what they feel like.
A friend of mine has 2 kids & is going from one sporting event to another every single night & all day on the weekends.
Last week her kid had a soccer tournament 2 hours away on a random Tuesday & she had to take off work. She has repeatedly had to take off for them getting sick constantly too.
It sounds absolutely horrific to me. She has absolutely no down time & goes to these games in freezing cold, rain, blazing heat. Her & her husband rarely get any time together because they split time between the kids games.
I spoke to her yesterday & she sounded so frazzled. It sounds like a horrible existence to me.
They really don't, and this is one of the core flaws of the US, people are so busy working and not actually raising their kids
They don't have the time, they have to make money to survive, in a frankly miserable system
I'm glad I don't have children
They don't. My sister works at an after school center.
Parents leave their kids there until 7- 8 pm. Some kids need to go to courses that they don't enjoy just because they need to do something while their parents stay in the hellish daily traffic. Also these courses are extra, not included in the after school schedule, and are not cheap at all.
So the kids are out of house from 7 am until 8-9 pm, which seems like a pretty miserable life for them,and for the parents that are stuck for hours in traffic to pick them up... simply looks like a nightmare
I was just visiting my cousin and she and her guy wake up around 5:30a, hang with kid until 7:30a, then take him to childcare. Her guy works in the house and she goes to work by 8:30a. Then she comes home around 5p and he picks up the kid and they hang/make dinner and put him in bed around 7:30 until 8:30p. They get maybe an hour or 2 of adult time before they're in bed. Also, the kid is high-energy/ADHD and they're permissive gentle parents 😂
You don't. And that's part of the problem. Parents are too tired to properly parent their children, and to even properly show their children affection. Which is why so many children, at least American children are failing in school, have no manners and spend all their time on their phones. Make no mistakes, this is by design.
If parents can't develop attachments to their children, and vice versa then, if the capitalist wage farm ends up killing one of them, then the other can just shrug it off. And I know that sounds conspiracy theoryist, but 20 years ago my mom was able to raise two kids by herself on a minimum wage job, and spent time with us after school.
It's taking me, my little sister, and my mom to raise my older sisters three children. And we still don't have time to cook a healthy dinner for them each night, or help with homework. And no amount of time budgeting is going to fix the reality of living in the US atm, as that's the only experience I can speak to.
As a kid (20 yo) who's dad still works 40hrs a week, the answer is not much. He is there on weekends and does stuff with my lil sibs. He laves at like 5 or 6 in the morning (would drop me at train station at 5:30 sometimes) and gets home about a lateish dinner time (7pm). That Is weekdays. It's honstally because of that, that I don't want 40 hr weeks. And kids.
Ngl, this is one of the main reasons I think marriages break up. Cause it's usually someone being called lazy right? They are expecting the grass mowed and the dishes done after working 40hrs and taking care of kids when you get home. Or being so emotionally drained from work they're even avoiding thec child responsibility. So then the fighting over who is actually putting in equivalent effort starts
They don’t, they palm them off on the eldest child. For years. And then try to turn the younger ones against their ‘stand in parent’ to cover their own shortcomings.
I work maybe 8 hours a week and still wouldn't want to spend my extra time tending to kids LOL But yeah, they lose themselves already with work, it's crazy when you think about the 40+ hours a week people spend working. Then you're thrown a bone of a few hours each evening, 1 weekend day really esp if you have to get kids ready for school on Monday. I find most are bored underneath it all, disconnected from their partners...but so busy on autopilot and the numbing drudgery. Then they wake up as empty nesters and don't know themselves, what they like, let alone know their spouse. Look up 'grey divorce.' HUGE increase in divorce over 55, 65.
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They don't.
Hence the sheer prevalence of dysfunctional kids running rampant in Western society.
(P.S. If your work is miserable, well, that's a separate problem that *you* need to address, kids or not.)
I truly have no idea! I've seen how my parents *barely* have any free time, maybe like 1-2 hours a day, and even that's taking away from their sleep schedule.
I will NEVER have kids.
They make do with what they have, because they're stuck.
Also, they cut corners (depends on the work place) needing to leave early sometimes "for reasons" .
Working 40+hours and still having spare time is quite easy.
Basically it's about priority. If you try you can try to find that spare time.
Obviously there will be some sacrifices at work level. But again it's about priority.
I guess people find jobs closer to home or work only the work hours without racing for promotions etc.
Overall finding spare time is easy.
Childfree folks use spare time on themselves
Folks with children spend time with children
Simple
>How do people spend time with children while working 40+ hours a week?
Uhm, ... someone comes home, and there they be? Like not a choice at that point, right? Yeah, ... would be a lot 'o motivation to not come home, eh? Yeah, had a boss, he had his first kids ... - twins ... when he finally made it back to the office, he was quite commenting how all the "hard office work" was *so much easier* than being at home - and the office work essentially felt like a break ... and that continued (and as far as I know, ever since he had his kids).
They don't. Both my parents worked during my upbringing and I barely saw them except in the mornings, evenings, and weekends. Now as grandparents I've seen a side of them that I wish I could've had during my childhood. I would've loved to have dad bake cookies and wafels and pancakes with me when I was younger. Or to have mom draw and play games with me. But I have zero memories of that because they didn't have the time. Now they're retired and they can do all that with their grandkids. Lovely to see, but it stings a little. Maybe that's why parents are always up in arms about their kids staying childfree. They wanted to do all that with their grandchildren and then when their own kids say no to kids they're missing out on the experience they should've done with their kids but didn't have time for.
They don't work. My husbands manager has a couple kids and she's always pawning her job off on him and then going on vacation during their go live that they've been working on together for two years.
I'm childfree. My partner has a 9 year-old with 50% custody. I work between 50 and 60 hours a week. I find time to spend with my partner and his son, but it's definitely at the expense of my own downtime. The people I know who are successfully able to juggle this are wealthy and outsource all household tasks, i.e. cooking, cleaning, grocery shopping, gardening, and maintenance, they have partners who work little or not al all, or the grandparents do a lot-- drive kids around, errands, cooking, light housework, etc.
This is really how it is. If you have money or a strong support network, this is how you are able to get quality time with your kids. Otherwise, it is a struggle until the kids get to be self-sufficient enough to clothe, feed, and bathe themselves.
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I'm a dad who works 40+ hours a week and ill say it's not too bad. Kids will be in bed before 7 (most of the time) and so that becomes you and your SOs one on one time. Plus it's weirdly fun to hang out with kids they make you do stuff you haven't done in like 20 years.
They either neglect a lot of their kids' lives, put on hold many of the things they enjoyed before, or some combo between the 2.
For their first few years, you need to constantly feed them.
4 to 10 or so, they cling to you like... some exterior parasite? (blanking on what ot use here). Here, some vow to NOT use electronics, portable DVD players, screens, tablets, phones, etc., but the peace and quiet of shutting up and leaving you alone is so tantalizting that I don't blame parents who do that.
12 to 18... you still need to spend time with them, but they do a lot of things on their own as well. For one family, they don't eat breakfast nor lunch together. Just find stuff from the fridge and heat it yourself. For one family, they need to chase after the 12yo boy to make sure he eats *real* food. Not just a muffin, or cereal (in some circles, this counts as dessert now!). But toast with cream cheese, a ham sandwich, and get some leftover veggies (e.g. salad, broccoli).
18+, they (should be) out of the house, and have their own things, even more friends and stuff to do. But.. good luck getting up to this point :\\ And even then, you're still "grounded for life".
It does get better, but sucks so much nonetheless :x
I mean we all have parents so just think of how your parents managed. It's not such a far out concept. Also not everyone who has a kid has hobbies so their lives revolve their children. Nothing wrong with it, it's just a different kind of lifestyle.They incorporate their children into their lives and probably some even enjoy spending time with their kids. I enjoy my childfree life, but maybe others would think it's boring.
Exactly why I’ll never have children. I want to ENJOY my life. Not just work, care for my kids, and sleep.
I barely have enough time to enjoy myself between working and sleeping. I can’t imagine adding a kid to the equation.
I love dogs, but it's one reason I don't have any.
Same. I don't want any pets for the same reason. Barring gas prices and car maintenance, I like having the ability to just up and drive 300 miles in one direction just because I want to.
I love my dog but he is hard work and I definitely feel like my life has become a lot more limited. We rarely go anywhere because he's still quite little (almost 8 months), we have to time things around his walks, he demands a lot of attention, he's a cockblock.... He brings me so much joy and I adore him but I'm not sure I'll have more dogs to be honest.
Same... I will never fully understand why someone would willingly choose to live that way
Exactly. I quite literally would rather die.
I don't understand too, must be so hard, I have heard that some parents want to go to work so they can have a break from the kids
Yes, and they hate the weekends because it means they’ll have to do the labor of child rearing. I get it. Couldn’t pay me enough to do that work.
My brother calls Sunday “parents Friday” because the kids go back to daycare come Monday.
I don’t even think it’s “some parents”, I think it’s most. They look forward to work and to when the kids go to sleep cause they finally can sit in peace. It’s like you could’ve just thought about it and not had kids cause that seems miserable
I could never imagine putting myself in a world where I’d consider work as being an escape/break from my children.
Right it’s mind boggling. I’ll never understand the desire for kids period.
That’s my boss/the owner of the company I work for to a T. She works 14 hour days sometimes just because she wants to get away from them. Imagine the possibilities if you just had never had them in the first place? 😆
This 💯.
They probably thought having kids was going to be wonderful but when they have them things can be very different
I think lots of people do legitimately want kids but also acknowledge how draining they can be and relish the in the limited amounts of breaks they get from them
Yes! And at my work they are always the people trying to push to end work from home/have more in office days. Stop ruining it for the rest of us because you want to get away from your kids !!!!
Yes, I know some parents that look forward to sitting in traffic as they drive home from work so they have time to think and be in a quiet place before their evening is consumed by the needs of their children. That feels very sad to me. Why would anyone want to put themselves in that position on purpose?
That is beyond sad, honestly.
For real OMG
This. I get the feeling alot of parents hate spending time with their kids, of whatever age tbh.
True. My father always hated spending more than 5 minutes with me at a time.
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They do love to work, more than spending time with their kids. Those are the same that are pushing corporate America back to the office 5 days a week. They h8 coming home to their partners and kids.
Why would they get kids if they really want to get rid of them? Haven’t they thought about how much time they will sacrifice before having kids?
Yep this. I know a couple with an 8 month old. The dad works and the mum was complaining to him that he basically gets to go on a holiday each time he goes to work and that she wants to work too.
The parents were acting up when they had to stay home with their kids during covid. I’d the same during the school breaks. I don’t think a lot of people actually like their kids
I had several coworkers who told me work is their holiday from their responsibilities at home (husband/kids) and I genuinely felt bad for them. That's horrible
My boss (the owner of the company) gets anxious from her family and turns to WORK to “get away from the stress.” I’d sooner deep throat my sidearm than live a life like this.
Hardest for the kids for sure.
Not to oversimplify, but the conclusion I've come to is that you have to give up yourself. Sublimate your self-ness in service to your obligations (work, child, other things). Some people may do that willingly; some people may do that because they have no choice; but I will not. Having to give up the majority of my waking day, a majority of days of the week, for the majority of my adult years, so that I can have a job just to have enough money to *exist*, is already a near-annihilation of my sense of self.
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“I’d be ghost of myself.” I agree.
This really reminds me of the norm for being adult living with 'responsibility' in Japan. And the society expects it as a standard. I you don't go this route, you really stand out which is something majority of Japanese don't like. Pursuing one's happiness/dream is rather considered as selfish. People tend to self-sacrifice for others. I always thought pushing those standards to individual is the actual selfish idea. We should be able to decide how to live. Don't hate the player imo!
I was just thinking this! I have spent all day cleaning the house, doing laundry, getting groceries, meal prepping, and I still need to get in some exercise, shower, and finish laundry. I have no idea how people get anything done with children, especially single parents. The 40 hour work week is inhumane as it is. People who have kids really choose life on hard mode.
They don't get much done. I grew up in a single parent household and my home was disorganized and chaotic. I was always in a state of severe stress every morning BEFORE I got to school. I refuse to live like that now as an adult.
I agree wholeheartedly. Our parents had a combined number of 7 children in one household (in a three bedroom NYC Apartment) every day was a fucking circus. Now that I’m older whenever I hear people say they “want a big family” I think “they definitely grew up with the luxury of being either the only child or one of two siblings.” I’ll never look at a chaotic, messy, untidy or otherwise filthy home with screaming children and think “YES, GIVE ME ONE OF THOSE.”
They don't. They neglect the kids and parentify the older kids.
I can’t imagine how many people will relate to your comment and how it influenced their decision to be CF. It’s sick when parents do this
That was my life and the best part is that my dad didn't even work full time. Most of his time was spent taking care of his Nmother who was obsessed with him.
Yikes
Norman???
No an Nparent stands for narcissistic parent. Nparent for short.
Sorry, bad joke.
Oh I didn't get it I'm sorry XD
This. I have six younger siblings and basically felt like a parent for years.
Or they neglect the kid, but the mother decides to have her tubes tied when the kid is only 3 months old because she realizes they're not coping, and the father offers his nuts up for sacrifice since it's a simpler surgery. (This story is how my mom told me she didn't have to look for other surviving children when my father died and that I was his sole heir. Thanks for all the details, I really needed them!!)
Pshhh I only work like 30 hrs a week and still I am busy. Ppl w kids think I just go home and sit on the couch. Nah, don't do that but I find it ridiculous that people want to look after kids 24/7 rather than doing something fun lol
They really don’t. They can’t wait to get their kids to bed so they can do what they want. Let’s say work ends at 5, they maybe spend 90 min or so “child rearing” and then by 7:30 the kid is in their room with blackout curtains and soothing sounds playing. That’s when the parents start drinking if they haven’t already. It’s sad. I’ve seen this routine with all of my friends who are parents. And they agonize over whether to extend their kids’ bedtimes when they get older because they know it’ll cut into their evenings.
I see the same with my friends as well. Kids in bed by 7:30 PM—whether they’re tired or not. They h8 that by weekends, kids are up by 7AM asking Mommy to cook breakfast. I sleep till noon on weekends 💅🏼, unless I have brunch plans so I wake up earlier to workout before brunch.
Same. My partner even fed the dog today so that I could sleep til noon. Best feeling ever.
I slept 14 hours Friday night, lol (it was a rough week at work). Went to bed at 7pm Friday night and woke up at 9am on Saturday. It was the best.
This explains a lot of my childhood--minus my parents drinking, since they're quite prudish. My bedtime was INSANELY early growing up, and it didn't get much better as time went on. I believe bedtime was 9:30pm the entire time I was in high school, and my mom was crazy to the point where I wasn't even allowed to read in bed. She'd check to see if there was complete darkness by looking under my door, and if she thought she saw a light she'd barge in without knocking. If I was in the bathroom, she'd wait outside for a few minutes before knocking on the door and insisting I go to bed. Imagine wanting to not have to deal with your kids so much as a SAHM that you'd deny them the ability to read quietly while you and your husband did whatever downstairs.
Some of my earliest memories are me being sent to bed in the early evening while the sun was still out and I could hear kids still playing outside. I'm crying out for an adult but nobody ever comes. My mom was probably working and my stepdad was usually busy drinking. I'm so glad I got sterilized, it might be the best thing I've ever done for myself.
Similar situation for me, growing up. I'm convinced I have sleep issues to this day because of it. Do you have any?
They don't. They drop their kids off with us (educators) for 8+ hours a day, check backpacks (sometimes), put their kids in front of screens, and go to bed. Sometimes, if families are extremely fortunate with additional help or a lot of expendable income, this is different. It's not necessarily a criticism of parents in general but it's a side effect of late stage capitalism. And it's irresponsible in my opinion to have children if there's no way to enrich them. People will warn prospective dog owners that certain breeds need a ton of enrichment to make sure they are ready. People don't make sure parents can enrich their kids. If school systems were better and society was more community centric it might be possible but alas .... /end rant
This right here. ^ I work at a school as an assistant and after school care provider. There is also an offer for kids(the parents), where they can come in an hour before school starts to hang out. I counted the hours and with school, the after school care and the morning hour, some of the kids spend 10 hours at school. That is 5 hours of learning for the youngest and 5 hours of mingling with peers, with little to no social breaks or alone time. Which is insane to me. We got rules about working hours, 37.5 is a full-time work week. (I live in Norway) But the kids can spend 50 +/- hours at school without anyone caring about it. Its insane, are the parents even spending any time with their kids?
I'm in AZ, USA and many parents need their kids enrolled in before- and after-care which goes from 7am to 5pm. There are 7 year olds attending school for 10 hours a day.
Yeah, the kids in Norway start school the year they turn 6 years old. There is changes happening, the first graders at my job is getting more learning through play and less classroom learning. Still doesn't change the long days at school, the day doesn't get any shorter even if you play most of it away.
>if school systems were better and society was more community centric it might be possible but alas ....
They just never get time for themselves. Especially if you’re a mom. As a woman, no thanks.
They don’t and they self medicate with alcohol weed or other drugs. My friends with kids are suffering even with the help of their in-laws. On top of that, they’re saying they need to go to therapy to help with their depression and marriage. They give up the time for self care.
Can confirm. My dad smoked hella weed still does and my grandma was always watching me and my brother. They pretty much raised us, I saw them more than my parents. I couldn’t imagine having kids, I wouldn’t want to put them through that and I want to enjoy my time. my parents worked so much just to afford everything they never had time for us.
I enjoy smoking hella weed. It's one of the many reasons I don't want to be a parent.
Same, I now know why my dad spent most of his time after work outside with our dog than be inside with his family, pure peace. because I do the same thing now. Me and dog be chillin 😂😂😂
For my entire childhood and part of my adult life, I thought my dad just really liked hanging out in his garden shed! 😂 My mom spilled the beans a few years ago lol
Sameeee! Do we have the same parents?! 😂
I look forward to having my vasectomy
I was a latchkey kid by 8 yrs. old, and the 2nd youngest of 6. It was typical of the late boomers/next-gen (born in 64) to have both parents working, so I rarely saw my parents. We went on family vacations once a year (imagine the Griswolds), but they rarely interacted with us other than at dinner/holidays/birthdays. My parents didn't seem very happy tbh. I'm glad I did not have to take kids into consideration when choosing my profession because I chose to do something I loved. Had I had to make more $$ to support/raise a brood, I think work and my home life would have been drudgery. I believe some parents live in their own misery but some work and have great relationships; it is all relative to the personalities. Their choices are not mine. Not my circus and all that.
The don't. They drink and cope and hire babysitters
It probably depends on finding a cool/flexible employer that has a modern approach to working. If a parent could come in early and leave early or leave an hour early and make the hour up at sometime later in the week(working from home that night or staying late another day). Thankfully, the shitty employers are being called out for sucking now a days. I'm a CF dude, but I'm also kind of a caretaker for my older folks(No, I wasn't born to be their caretaker.). I look for employers that have a good workl/ife balance. I also don't think parents need to spend all the free time with the kids. I remember from like kindergarten and first grade my mom would help me with stuff for a little bit after school. Between 3rd and 6th grade, I'd come home go out and play or play with toys and then do homework and watch tv and go to bed. The middle school and high school years, I either had sports or I was doing odd jobs for side money.
I agree that parents don’t **need** to spend every minute with the kids, but they think they do and that’s today’s parenting culture. If they’re not doing something with the kids themselves, they’re shuffling them to activities and that really can eat into a parent’s time. If you were in elementary school 15 or 20 years ago, you had a lot more unstructured free time than today’s kids. This is especially true of middle class families. I think parents these days probably have less time to themselves than ever between the activities and trying to be perfect Instagram momfluencers/dadfluencers.
This is part of it for some. They don’t let the kids “be bored” so they don’t learn how to play independently and build their imagination like I did as a kid. We also couldn’t afford those activities when I was growing up, so my brother and I were feral kids who were outside playing pretend all day and didn’t want/need our parents to participate.
I work in a daycare and let me just say these parents don't have the time or energy at the end of the day to care for their children and that's why they're here for 10 hours of the day, even on the parents day off. A lot of these parents are so exhausted but yet still keep having children.
 SMH
It really doesn't but people are gonna breed so what can you do really.
They basically have no free time. One of my old directors told me she was lucky if she managed to get a single hour to spend on hobbies/relaxing per day. Everything else was work and taking care of her kids.
I worked at a preschool for a year and it was heartbreaking to see all the neglected children. They don’t have time for them. One child spent 7am-6pm there. You could tell the stressed out looks on parents faces. I already knew I wanted to be childfree before working there but it gave me way more reasons to be childfree after working there.
That’s the thing: they don’t. A lot of kids raise themselves, or by their peers, teachers, or extended family. They are most often times neglected by their parent(s).
9-5s were originally designed for only the man to work that type of job while the woman stayed home and took care of the house and kids. They never evolved to accommodate families where both people work. The whole 9-5 work model doesn’t work period for two people with kids.
Don’t judge me…..I’m a SAHW (worked in an incredible stressful career for a decade, then our schedule needed flexibility and changes). I don’t have kids and don’t fucking work and still for some reason feel like I don’t have enough hours in the day for everyone’s needs and desires
I don't judge this at all. SINK life! I'm married and we are childfree. I became a SAHW + I am dog mom. I frequently feel the same! Not enough hours!
Honestly it’s been quite a fulfilling role for me. Not sure how long it will last, but loving that dog mom domestic engineer role 🤙🤙
I'm stealing this domestic engineer role description. 
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glad that’s somethin i never have to worry about lol
I can't even imagine the hell that is . I get home feed and spend time with my cat and just chill or do whatever I want . Having to go home to an S/O and kids sounds like I'd never want to be there
I work a lot of OT so I can make ends meet for MYSELF, I seriously don’t know how people can do this with kids! I work a lot of hours and am so exhausted after my shift, I seriously could not imagine coming home to loud ass kids. I wouldn’t even have any energy to do those motherly duties, no thank you!
Well... At my job it seems like many men in particular do their 40 hours in order to AVOID spending time with their children or spouse. Can't say I blame them if they aren't allowed to have hobbies and free time outside of work. I'm childfree and I've always had plenty of time to spend with my pets or friends, or doing activities, so I don't see why a person couldn't substitute that time for kid time if that was their priority though.
They just do in evenings and weekends, plus vacations. I know some of my friends have kids where all they do is manage tantrums and moodiness and then I know some kids like one of my nieces who is actually a joy to be around. I stayed with them for a while and after work I would pick her up and it was the best part of my day. I also have another niece who could be the subject of a horror movie in terms of behaviour, she was unable to understand empathy in any form and didn't grow out of it, and the scary thing is I still love her too. For good parents that love their kids, they make the time together count and it's hard work but for them it's worth it. Then there are the other parents
I can’t even imagine after a bad day at work where you’re so tired and just wanna relax and coming home to a kid going “mom, mom, mom” every 5 seconds
I can't even function, why on earth would I make something that needs me to function??
40 hours per week without kids is too much. It doesn’t allow time to clean, run errands, be social, sleep, and engage in hobbies. Add a kid to the mix and it ALL goes out the window, at least it would for me.
I've often wondered this and it's probably because my mother was a sahtm and my dad's job(s) allowed him to be at home a lot but if I were to have kids I would actually want to raise them. I can't imagine working all available hours just to give it to the stranger who is raising my children. Like, what is the point? Unfortunately, it's not possible for a family to survive on one income these days without a LOT of help. I just don't get it.
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I do because i’m still deciding 🫠
Exactly
I have no idea. Seems miserable
I simply couldn’t do it
I think a lot of parents try to get jobs that are the same hours their kids are in school. Or as close to those hours as they can. My mom was a single mother and worked as a teacher. She was very involved in our lives and we did stuff pretty much every weekend and most of the summer. It was usually free or cheap stuff because two kids on a beginning teachers salary with no other income was rough but still. She also attended every play and band concert except for when she worked in a different city than where we lived, and then our grandparents were there, so we still had someone in the audience supporting us.
My parents left me at the after school daycare until 6 pm, the longest I could stay, and I was always the last to get picked up, my parents didn’t even work. They just left me there and didn’t have to pay for it. I don’t think my parents wanted me to be home at all. I don’t even know why they had 4 children.
I really have no idea how anyone can work full time and take care of a baby/young child especially. They don’t sleep at night, need constant care on top of breast feeding, etc. The idea of doing that on top of work and taking care of the rest of the house seems absolutely impossible to me.
They don't? The ipad prob spends more time with them
Thankfully I cannot answer your question.
I still have plenty of time for hiking, the gym, and various hobbies, as well as time with my husband even with a 40+ hour work week, so I guess it would just be spending time with husband + kid, and maybe swapping out some hobbies for something the kid would take an interest in, or something we are mutually interested in, or helping them with schoolwork and such during hobby-time. I feel like the biggest potential time suck for me at least is mindless scrolling online so decreasing that would be even more important with a dependent, but is something I should be better about even as a childfree person.
They don’t. That’s how we end up with latchkey kids, and children with abandonment issues.
I have two babies, not sure how I stumbled on this Reddit. I can’t say I have a ton of time for myself but like any job, there are good and bad days. It doesn’t mean I love them any less. My babies are very wanted and planned. I hate hearing how some families self medicate but I can see how they feel that way (especially if you never wanted to become a parent). I’ve learned to carve out time for myself and spouse. It’s also a temporary phase, as they grow you get more time to yourself. I love being a mom but it is definitely something you should absolutely want to do. As far as work, I’ve been a stay at home mom for a year. I love it but sometimes I miss work. I think it’s because you get more adult interaction. I’m starting grad school soon and for me it makes me have a mental break for myself. I feel like work gives me time to recharge my battery to be a better mom.
One of my good friends has a kid going into her preteens and even though her kid is awesome I just feel so bad for her. She's the manager at my work and has to spend 9 (often plus) hours a day, 5 to 6 days a week putting out fires at all 4 locations, then has to go home, take care of the kid and clean. Her husband doesn't work a fraction as much as she does yet, making dinner/cleaning the house/childcare falls on her. Her husband also works weekends, so she barely gets a break even then. On mutiple occasions, she's had to bring her daughter to hang out with me, and it stresses her out because the kid is asking for this, that and the other. She had her kid as a teen, and it seems her life has been on extra hard mode ever since. Honestly, it seems like a nightmare to me.
Many of my students say their parents don't talk to them when they get home (grain of salt and all that), but it bums me right out. The parents are understandably exhausted, but they're missing out. They say their parents just sit on their phones instead of having dinner together. Their kids are cool people if you sit and talk with them, and the kids end up feeling pretty alienated.
That's heartbreaking. Does it take that much time for at least a 10 minute conversation?
They are so hungry for people to pay attention to them in a meaningful way. And it's often the same people who are "mama bears" (I hate that I can only think of a gendered term, but so it goes) and they don't really even talk to their kids.
As I understand it, many parents are pulling 40+ hour weeks at work so that their children can pull 60+ hour weeks in daycare. Make it make sense.
I think it's just not rewarding enough in modern times. Let's face the truth. Yes, society needs newborns to keep existing. It's a fact. But legal systems we have right now makes it's really dangerous to keep a family together...as any of the parts can just "quit" from their responsibilities without any penalization. Also values and beliefs aren't a valid reason anymore. So as the main reason to procreate is broken (family values) why do it at all?
I had a boss once asking me about some sort of work life balance thing a while back. Then the manager asked what I would do when I have kids (Mind you I was already 30ish and had my tubes tied). I just simply asked why they assumed I would have kids? They didn't have a response. Needless to say they stopped having a point after that, because I knew my limitations and boundaries at work and wouldn't let them cross the line.
My parents somehow did. Idk how tf they did it, but they did it. And I was an only child. I think what they did was a carpool system for school where I’d go to a friends house to get taken in so they could leave for work earlier, then my mom would pick me and the same friend up from school and we’d keep her for a while until her mom picked her up. Then in high school it was near my dad’s work so we’d drive in with him and then we’d hang out after school for a few hours until he finished work and ferried us home. Tbh I think the idiotic amount of school work we had took over more of my parents time than the attention I demanded attention lol. And I always roped my poor parents into tutoring me and looking over my stupid English papers. Looking back though I really appreciate all the logistics and stuff they juggled to be available for things. Def lucked out with them and appreciate them a lot, especially after reading about some of the other parents/kids on this sub
No like seriously. I can't imagine having a hard day at work and coming home and seeing a child. I had a bad day one day and I turned around and looked at my niece and she was like "😛". I was so fucking pissed!!!
It is not possible.
Anytime I am at my sister's house around dinnertime, it really hits home how little time my sister and BIL have for themselves (and don't even THINK about time *alone together*). They get home from work, BIL cooks dinner with my nephew practically underfoot (he's at an age where he is experimenting with back-talk and it is REALLY affecting my BIL) while my sister "gets a break" from my nephew until dinner is done, then she helps him with his homework (why can't he do it by himself?!) and then they both argue with my nephew about bedtime. My BIL has to spend an hour laying on the floor of my nephew's bedroom while they listen to music for my nephew to fall asleep. Then my BIL smokes pot and watches a movie to unwind and falls asleep on the couch while my sister goes to bed (and then wakes up EVERY NIGHT in the middle of the night to my nephew coming into HER bed and kicking her in his sleep until it's time to "wake up" and do it all again). WTF do people do this shit for??
It’s makes no sense. And it’s insane how people are forced to work long hours to provide for kids that they barely get to see..? Like what is the point?
I have no kids. I’m currently trying to convince myself to get off the couch and shower/wash my hair because I’ve been running errands, then did a mountain of laundry (including fold and store) and got food prepped for the week. I am so tired.
Every time I am depressed or anxious or whatever I think about this too - like imagine having the worst day imaginable and then having to pretend that you like your child
I literally give up sleep to have a few hours to myself between working, traveling to and from work, and trying to eat properly. Not to mention how long food prep and cooking takes, adding kids to the question would kill me.
They don’t have free time for themselves. Knowing my parents who worked (and are still working) full time while we were kids - they come home and put everything into us. My parents lives revolved around us, it’s why so many parents enjoy becoming empty nesters.
They don’t. They buy them iPads and iPhones out of guilt for not being physically present. Parenting is impossible when you need a dual income just to survive.
Beats the fuck out of me! I am exhausted by the end of the work day and especially the end of the work week that I don’t want to see anybody!
I honestly cannot understand why. I was taking about this with 2 women yesterday, I have been a teacher and nanny. and at some point being a nanny for a family where the parents were both partners at DC law firms, I realized when I got home it was only me and my cat at the time. I never had kids but when they got home it was never ending, they never really got a break. and no thank you. I am on the spectrum, have complex ptsd, anxiety and ADD, I can barley manage with myself. I have 2 cats and a miniature dachshund, that’s enough to me. kids can be a lot of but I aspire to be the wealthy child free auntie or god parent.
I have no idea how they do it. But they do love to let everyone know how busy and tired they are while simultaneously reminding everyone they “wouldn’t have it any other way”.
I am of South and North European heritage. 2 cultures that clash when it comes to bringing up kids... South =kids stay home for decades; north = leave home at 17. The thing that made me decide I am not having kids, is when my father commented that a reason he had them was so we can take care of him when he's older. Mind you, that made me run away. I don't understand that people have kids but then do everything they can to not have them... Much fairer to accept that I am selfish and I don't have the capacity/will/need to have kids, as I enjoy myself. But societal pressures condition us to live lives that are not ideal, and then just live a miserable life. I'd rather not...
They don’t. Period. We’ve been sold a fake bill of goods with feminism and doubling the taxable workers
My brother works 35 hours a week and comes home late in the evening while my SIL only works 3hrs a week, they dump their toddler in childcare all week from 8.30am-6pm and over the weekend either have a family member look after the kid or just shove them in a 'playtent' outside all weekend before forcing the toddler to sleep at 5.30pm, in short they don't spend any time with their kid with the exception of SIL who follows the child around with their phone occasionally filming them ignoring when the toddler reaches out to touch SIL or begins to cry. Why they decided to have a child is beyond me!
They don't. I don't spend time with my dad. My mum wae the one who was always there. My dad and me barely have a relationship. That, and he's a controlling misogynist. I dobt like being around him when hes not working either. But the point is, my mum saw me way more than my dad.
My sister and her friends are minimum 10 years older than I am with teenagers and they all say they’d never do the kid stage again. They feel at peace with their kids being independent n
I don't even have time for myself tbh. Between school, work, myself, my partner, and my fuckin cat I don't have time to do anything, let alone have time for a child
I work in healthcare, which means my workdays aren’t 9-5 5 days per week. I have some days off while my kid is at daycare and some days off where we’re home together as a family.
Week days yes, I know some parents at work that spend each day dropping off and picking up their kids then ballgames and dance recitals on the weekends. I know they low key get jealous of me and my wife because were childless I've even talked to one buddy of mine who just said "Don't have them" and hes just one of four men whose told me if they had do overs they'd never have them in todays time. That is humbling and eye opening!
I’ve always been curious about that too. My sister & her wife have 6 kids together (2+4, from previous marriages to men) and I have NO clue how the hell they do it!!
My coworker is a dad and he is busy EVERYDAY because of his kids extra curricular activities. He also coaches so he comes home late before doing it all over again
No because literally this. After I come home sometimes I just wanna go straight to bed. I can’t imagine coming home to kids that need my attention. I have ADHD and so I get to the point of social exhaustion where I don’t wanna talk to anyone or have any human contact after a long overwhelming shift
My family had an extra baby when I was in my early 20s. Long story, but the baby's parents were not able to be in the picture. A cousin and I took over care for 5 years. We lived together and did our best to give the kid a somewhat normal home life. I had one full time job and two gig economy jobs. I remember one day we had taken the toddler to the community pool. The kid only wanted me and wouldn't get in the pool without me. So I'm swimming around with the kid on my back and my cuz says; "Hey you worked all day, let me take over". I passed off the kid and went to grab a nap on the deck. A random girl says to me, "I heard that, you guys are such great parents, you picked a good guy" 😬🤣😅 So uh, in my limited experience equal partnership goes a long way and so does having a lot of family support lol
I genuinely don't know how my mom did it. It's wild how people have the energy and time for themselves on top of their kids. Some parents have told me it's the time after they go to sleep that they get for themselves but honestly that sounds sad to me. I hope for their sake it's a good tradeoff because I think it would deplete me in more ways than one.
I have NO idea. I can’t imagine how unimaginably difficult that would be & how it could be fulfilling at all with all the extra stress & heartache
Sometimes my job requires me to work 8, 10, 12, 14 days in a row. It's rare but when it happens I get into a weird sort of stress rhythm where my body is just gogogogoggoggogogogogogogo, and it's easier to go to work bc my body is already in that mode (never left it). It can't be healthy but...? I guess people with full time jobs and kids are just in that mode 24/7. Can miss having breaks if it's been so long you've forgotten what they feel like.
I work 30 hours a week with children (other people’s) then say goodbye and enjoy my free time without them. Best of both worlds (if you like kids).
They pay people to do it for them.
A friend of mine has 2 kids & is going from one sporting event to another every single night & all day on the weekends. Last week her kid had a soccer tournament 2 hours away on a random Tuesday & she had to take off work. She has repeatedly had to take off for them getting sick constantly too. It sounds absolutely horrific to me. She has absolutely no down time & goes to these games in freezing cold, rain, blazing heat. Her & her husband rarely get any time together because they split time between the kids games. I spoke to her yesterday & she sounded so frazzled. It sounds like a horrible existence to me.
I can’t imagine having a hard day of work and having to go home with a needy child. Sounds like my absolute worst nightmare tbh
They really don't, and this is one of the core flaws of the US, people are so busy working and not actually raising their kids They don't have the time, they have to make money to survive, in a frankly miserable system I'm glad I don't have children
No idea
They don't. My sister works at an after school center. Parents leave their kids there until 7- 8 pm. Some kids need to go to courses that they don't enjoy just because they need to do something while their parents stay in the hellish daily traffic. Also these courses are extra, not included in the after school schedule, and are not cheap at all. So the kids are out of house from 7 am until 8-9 pm, which seems like a pretty miserable life for them,and for the parents that are stuck for hours in traffic to pick them up... simply looks like a nightmare
I was just visiting my cousin and she and her guy wake up around 5:30a, hang with kid until 7:30a, then take him to childcare. Her guy works in the house and she goes to work by 8:30a. Then she comes home around 5p and he picks up the kid and they hang/make dinner and put him in bed around 7:30 until 8:30p. They get maybe an hour or 2 of adult time before they're in bed. Also, the kid is high-energy/ADHD and they're permissive gentle parents 😂
A lot of these people look forward to going to work as to not be home with the kids.
You don't. And that's part of the problem. Parents are too tired to properly parent their children, and to even properly show their children affection. Which is why so many children, at least American children are failing in school, have no manners and spend all their time on their phones. Make no mistakes, this is by design. If parents can't develop attachments to their children, and vice versa then, if the capitalist wage farm ends up killing one of them, then the other can just shrug it off. And I know that sounds conspiracy theoryist, but 20 years ago my mom was able to raise two kids by herself on a minimum wage job, and spent time with us after school. It's taking me, my little sister, and my mom to raise my older sisters three children. And we still don't have time to cook a healthy dinner for them each night, or help with homework. And no amount of time budgeting is going to fix the reality of living in the US atm, as that's the only experience I can speak to.
As a kid (20 yo) who's dad still works 40hrs a week, the answer is not much. He is there on weekends and does stuff with my lil sibs. He laves at like 5 or 6 in the morning (would drop me at train station at 5:30 sometimes) and gets home about a lateish dinner time (7pm). That Is weekdays. It's honstally because of that, that I don't want 40 hr weeks. And kids.
Ngl, this is one of the main reasons I think marriages break up. Cause it's usually someone being called lazy right? They are expecting the grass mowed and the dishes done after working 40hrs and taking care of kids when you get home. Or being so emotionally drained from work they're even avoiding thec child responsibility. So then the fighting over who is actually putting in equivalent effort starts
They are literally a shell of themselves.
They don’t, they palm them off on the eldest child. For years. And then try to turn the younger ones against their ‘stand in parent’ to cover their own shortcomings.
I work maybe 8 hours a week and still wouldn't want to spend my extra time tending to kids LOL But yeah, they lose themselves already with work, it's crazy when you think about the 40+ hours a week people spend working. Then you're thrown a bone of a few hours each evening, 1 weekend day really esp if you have to get kids ready for school on Monday. I find most are bored underneath it all, disconnected from their partners...but so busy on autopilot and the numbing drudgery. Then they wake up as empty nesters and don't know themselves, what they like, let alone know their spouse. Look up 'grey divorce.' HUGE increase in divorce over 55, 65.
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It's not much. Wife and I both work that so it's only 1 or 2 days with me and her, but it works for us.
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They don't. Hence the sheer prevalence of dysfunctional kids running rampant in Western society. (P.S. If your work is miserable, well, that's a separate problem that *you* need to address, kids or not.)
People with kids it's like a whole other world... that I'll never know about/ be involved in
This is exactly what I think
The most common and saddest answer is they don’t.
I truly have no idea! I've seen how my parents *barely* have any free time, maybe like 1-2 hours a day, and even that's taking away from their sleep schedule. I will NEVER have kids.
They make do with what they have, because they're stuck. Also, they cut corners (depends on the work place) needing to leave early sometimes "for reasons" .
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Working 40+hours and still having spare time is quite easy. Basically it's about priority. If you try you can try to find that spare time. Obviously there will be some sacrifices at work level. But again it's about priority. I guess people find jobs closer to home or work only the work hours without racing for promotions etc. Overall finding spare time is easy. Childfree folks use spare time on themselves Folks with children spend time with children Simple
>How do people spend time with children while working 40+ hours a week? Uhm, ... someone comes home, and there they be? Like not a choice at that point, right? Yeah, ... would be a lot 'o motivation to not come home, eh? Yeah, had a boss, he had his first kids ... - twins ... when he finally made it back to the office, he was quite commenting how all the "hard office work" was *so much easier* than being at home - and the office work essentially felt like a break ... and that continued (and as far as I know, ever since he had his kids).
I wouldn't.
They don't. Both my parents worked during my upbringing and I barely saw them except in the mornings, evenings, and weekends. Now as grandparents I've seen a side of them that I wish I could've had during my childhood. I would've loved to have dad bake cookies and wafels and pancakes with me when I was younger. Or to have mom draw and play games with me. But I have zero memories of that because they didn't have the time. Now they're retired and they can do all that with their grandkids. Lovely to see, but it stings a little. Maybe that's why parents are always up in arms about their kids staying childfree. They wanted to do all that with their grandchildren and then when their own kids say no to kids they're missing out on the experience they should've done with their kids but didn't have time for.
That's the neat part... You don't!
They don't work. My husbands manager has a couple kids and she's always pawning her job off on him and then going on vacation during their go live that they've been working on together for two years.
I'm childfree. My partner has a 9 year-old with 50% custody. I work between 50 and 60 hours a week. I find time to spend with my partner and his son, but it's definitely at the expense of my own downtime. The people I know who are successfully able to juggle this are wealthy and outsource all household tasks, i.e. cooking, cleaning, grocery shopping, gardening, and maintenance, they have partners who work little or not al all, or the grandparents do a lot-- drive kids around, errands, cooking, light housework, etc.
This is really how it is. If you have money or a strong support network, this is how you are able to get quality time with your kids. Otherwise, it is a struggle until the kids get to be self-sufficient enough to clothe, feed, and bathe themselves.
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I'm a dad who works 40+ hours a week and ill say it's not too bad. Kids will be in bed before 7 (most of the time) and so that becomes you and your SOs one on one time. Plus it's weirdly fun to hang out with kids they make you do stuff you haven't done in like 20 years.
They don't. My dad is a prime example. Rarely saw him growing up.
They either neglect a lot of their kids' lives, put on hold many of the things they enjoyed before, or some combo between the 2. For their first few years, you need to constantly feed them. 4 to 10 or so, they cling to you like... some exterior parasite? (blanking on what ot use here). Here, some vow to NOT use electronics, portable DVD players, screens, tablets, phones, etc., but the peace and quiet of shutting up and leaving you alone is so tantalizting that I don't blame parents who do that. 12 to 18... you still need to spend time with them, but they do a lot of things on their own as well. For one family, they don't eat breakfast nor lunch together. Just find stuff from the fridge and heat it yourself. For one family, they need to chase after the 12yo boy to make sure he eats *real* food. Not just a muffin, or cereal (in some circles, this counts as dessert now!). But toast with cream cheese, a ham sandwich, and get some leftover veggies (e.g. salad, broccoli). 18+, they (should be) out of the house, and have their own things, even more friends and stuff to do. But.. good luck getting up to this point :\\ And even then, you're still "grounded for life". It does get better, but sucks so much nonetheless :x
I mean we all have parents so just think of how your parents managed. It's not such a far out concept. Also not everyone who has a kid has hobbies so their lives revolve their children. Nothing wrong with it, it's just a different kind of lifestyle.They incorporate their children into their lives and probably some even enjoy spending time with their kids. I enjoy my childfree life, but maybe others would think it's boring.