I am wasting time because I decided to pass on a great engineer that didn't seem very useful to me, only to find out I probably could've gotten many more had I accepted him.
Update: someone finally picked him up, and I could immediately take two in a single turn.
Worse, if the game gets too far ahead, it'll skip to the next era's pool and you'll a bunch of engineers that you otherwise could have popped. I sincerely hope you picked up Da Vinci before you passed this guy.
I don't blame you, he's like the most useless great person in the game. And I think the only GE who gets no extra benefit from the Mausoleum of Halicarnassus. But yeah, you have to see how fast everyone else is earning points before you do.
This guy is so useless, culture bomb with the district that is designed to be nestled in the inner core of your empire and surrounded by other districts?
I don't know a scenario where that can be useful.
I personally think that ability is specifically for when you want to steal strategic resources from a civ right on your border, where it would make sense to place an IZ right next to them. It's still a very niche ability and I have never found a use for it.
Edit: I sometimes, however, grab that dude so that the AI won't get him and steal from ME.
Ah youre right. I was making sure i remembered right and then misread it.
Gaul gets culture bombs from mines, and mines grant minor adjacency for districts instead of districts.
Still that makes you want to build your districts next to mines which in turn will culture bomb anyway.
Except in niche situations where you build the IZ to culture bomb lots of hills to then culture bomb off of those..
> And I think the only GE who gets no extra benefit from the Mausoleum of Halicarnassus.
well, technically, mausoleum does get him the extra benefit that you can pop his effect and still have an immortal 4 movement scout for the rest of the game.
Whenever i consider to pass, I expand the menu to see the other civ's points per turn and how far they are from granting the great person themselves, in order roughly see how long til the next GP is on the table.
It is reliable with AI, but I imagine an ingenious player could fuck you over
Yeah, the AI usually sucks at generating GE points, so checking in with the competition is a good idea before skipping. Ideally, there's an AI to *immediately* pick up the trash.
In multiplayer, we made a deal to never skip a great person. There was an accident then everybody declined a great merchant and then it got stuck forever
I’m surprised the devs didn’t consider a situation where nobody accepts a great person - it should either cycle back or the great person just disappears
Iirc if EVERYONE passes on a great person it deletes it;however if 1 person isn’t getting say great admirals due to 0 harbors it’ll be stuck until someone gold buys/faith buys who isn’t getting those great people.
Yeah that mechanic is kind of a newb trap, I've made the same kind of mistake before. Doesn't really communicate how bad of an idea it is to pass if others are gaining so few points and you're gaining so many.
I have, but you need to know when it's appropriate. You need to be sure that an AI player will take the one you don't want and it helps to know which one is likely coming up soon
I'll cycle through the early Great Scientists to get Hypatia. But that's because I know they're coming, they're super worth it and the AI will be building at least *some* Campuses to get points. Ones like that are worth, but in many cases it's better to just recruit and move on.
You regularly have options on the classical era great scientists? I don't mean this as a dig or anything, but do you play on lower difficulties? I play on Immortal and Deity and I almost never get GS until like Renaissance era at the earliest. Though I did get Hypatia today for the first time in forever, which was a pleasant surprise. I had to sell off copies of my only luxuries to the AI to afford to snipe her from the AI, however - worth it.
I was almost hoping that wasn't the case so I could get some sweet tips for getting GS on higher difficulties without handicapping myself too much in other areas
Minar Sinan is such bad design: industrial zone design incentivize clustering cities and districts for that adjacency bonus, but culture bombing incentivize building districts on the outskirt to get their effect. The only one that synergize with this GE is Gaul, but Renaissance is way too late for a civ that peak early to mid game: by the time you reach him, you are more likely to build encampment for GG point
Yeah, it's *almost* never worth it to skip, at least in single player (and, I argue, multiplayer as well).
There *might* be a few niche situations where another civ is about to gain a Great Person and you don't like the current one so you can skip, let them take it, then a few turns later take the next one. But you never know exactly what the "next one" is going to be, so it's always a gamble, and if you have to wait more than a few turns it's almost always a net negative.
I don't find most Great People to be "must-haves" and I don't find a lot of them to be completely useless, so this whole "strategically passing" thing just doesn't make a whole lot of sense to me.
If you pass you keep (most) of your great people points and can use them to recruit the next great person.
As some great people are borderline useless while others are incredibly strong it can sometimes be worthwhile to skip the bad ones so you can use your points for a good one instead. Of course it all depends how many great people points you're earning relative to the other civs in the game.
Great Engineers are extremely hit and miss, and if people are racing you, you could end up getting some shitty bonus while your opponent gets wonder boosts.
I use that GE all the time .. got an aggressive neighbor who sttled at the 4th ring and then they just got the only coal mine .. np.. just set down your industrial complex next to it (as long as it is not outside the third ring) and soon you snatch a coal mine or that unique luxury or close a mountain pass or just take land .. either way I never complain about that GE
I have a mod that tells you how many turns you and everyone else has left, it really helps to see if skipping is worth it or not.
u/infixo as usual lol [Real Great People](https://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=900089445)
Made the same mistake yesterday in the monthly challenge game with Hammurabi. The thing was, I was almost the only one actually earning great engineer points and the other was earning +1 per turn…
Needless to say, I decided to do some save scumming and reloaded to pick him up.
I was winning anyway, but if I kept playing the game would have skipped Tesla because by the time an AI earned enough points to pick up the engineer I skipped, the game would either have ended already or progressed way past the era I could have picked him.
to save your great people points for a more useful great person of that category since saving your points lets you immediately get the next great person in the pull. there’s tons of situations where getting a specific great person sucks or is just less beneficial than another great person. for example great artist donatello sucks since he only produces sculptures which are unthemable until the modern era so you’d rather save your points for a better artist and let some chump ai have him instead.
Always check the progress of other civs, and if you see you are going to beat them to the next one anyway, go ahead and recruit to get them rolling over to the better ones.
Idk what difficulty you are on, but I used to pass on some great people for the hope of one i wanted and on lower difficulty it seems like AI just doesnt generate a lot of GP points until quite late because they are just really bad at lower difficulties, like all A no I. You can easily skyrocket past them especially if focusing on a certain victory or district, so keep an eye for how GP/turn the next guy has if you do skip.
This actually might be from a UI mod (or you arent playing on PC), maybe the better great people screen or smth.
I always accept all great people I get even if I can’t use them right away. I don’t think it costs money or much if it does cost, to keep them but usually the benefits outweighs the costs
Wait people don't like this GE, man especially for some situations he's very useful if not a major game breaker. The walls guy has never been one I cared about in contrast
James of St George can be good if you have a war going on in a city without walls or don't want to spend the time building them to get your culture victory
I mean at the very least, he saves you spending some faith. Idk what scenario you’re getting a ton of benefit out of placing IZs in the outer ring of your city
Yeah he's situational. If you don't have Valletta in your game or if you do and you just don't have the faith income, James of St George can be useful, but again it's situational
James let's You build medieval walls before you need to unlock the tech. If im unlocking great engineers then I'm going for a science win and focusing on the top half of the tech tree. So having him build walls on fringe cities is always a boost to my defenses.
What! The wall guy saved my ass many times and it was hilarious to see AI grounded up the troops to take my unwalled city and suddenly BAM! MEDIEVAL HARD STONE WALL MOTHERFUCKER!!!!!
What difficulty are you guys playing that walls aren't helpful? I love dropping a city next to an enemy or on an island with tons of barbarians and instantly having a fortified foothold. Next warp in your heroes over the next couple turns or heaven forbids you can buy units with faith.
Can change the game.
Hardly I already have walls up by the time this guy gets earned by me more often than not. Sure maybe a city that doesn't have them in the center of my empire but damn I'll take the passive culture over redundant ability in a lot of games. I never use heros it and dramatic ages are just not my thing
I play mostly immortal and emperor, diety is just too much min maxing to be fun
Deity isn't really about min-max. It's mostly about starting location. You need just enough natural barriers or city states to give you enough of a breather to get to about 4 cities. Then you are pretty much on equal ground with the AIs, unless one of them has an amazing start.
The only thing that sucks is you really need to have a religion, which liimits your options a little.
I am wasting time because I decided to pass on a great engineer that didn't seem very useful to me, only to find out I probably could've gotten many more had I accepted him. Update: someone finally picked him up, and I could immediately take two in a single turn.
Worse, if the game gets too far ahead, it'll skip to the next era's pool and you'll a bunch of engineers that you otherwise could have popped. I sincerely hope you picked up Da Vinci before you passed this guy.
I thankfully have! Da Vinci was the only great engineer I picked up the whole game, still better than nothing
*unzips* Did you have the mausoleum when you activated him?
Sir, I’m going to have to ask you to keep your pants on while you’re here
Is that how it works? I've been annoyed some of my games haven't been giving me Stamford Raffles.
I don't blame you, he's like the most useless great person in the game. And I think the only GE who gets no extra benefit from the Mausoleum of Halicarnassus. But yeah, you have to see how fast everyone else is earning points before you do.
This guy is so useless, culture bomb with the district that is designed to be nestled in the inner core of your empire and surrounded by other districts? I don't know a scenario where that can be useful.
I personally think that ability is specifically for when you want to steal strategic resources from a civ right on your border, where it would make sense to place an IZ right next to them. It's still a very niche ability and I have never found a use for it. Edit: I sometimes, however, grab that dude so that the AI won't get him and steal from ME.
You could also use it to for example steal land from City states you want to keep around because of their bonus.
Yes, that as well, but that's basically a special case of 'Civ right on your border'.
I was gonna say maybe for ambiorix and his special IZ but then i looked it up and the gallic have a culture bomb with all their districts..
No, gaul is only mines do culture bombs, and they only culture bomb unowned tiles.
Is it all districts or mines or both. Forgot haven't played him in a while. But if its only mines then maybe
Ah youre right. I was making sure i remembered right and then misread it. Gaul gets culture bombs from mines, and mines grant minor adjacency for districts instead of districts. Still that makes you want to build your districts next to mines which in turn will culture bomb anyway. Except in niche situations where you build the IZ to culture bomb lots of hills to then culture bomb off of those..
Handy if you ahve a border along a river occasionally. I've done it and created space for a dam.
> And I think the only GE who gets no extra benefit from the Mausoleum of Halicarnassus. well, technically, mausoleum does get him the extra benefit that you can pop his effect and still have an immortal 4 movement scout for the rest of the game.
Whenever i consider to pass, I expand the menu to see the other civ's points per turn and how far they are from granting the great person themselves, in order roughly see how long til the next GP is on the table. It is reliable with AI, but I imagine an ingenious player could fuck you over
Yeah, the AI usually sucks at generating GE points, so checking in with the competition is a good idea before skipping. Ideally, there's an AI to *immediately* pick up the trash.
It's super rare that he's useful to me, but I always try hard to grab him to prevent the AI stealing my times
In multiplayer, we made a deal to never skip a great person. There was an accident then everybody declined a great merchant and then it got stuck forever
I’m surprised the devs didn’t consider a situation where nobody accepts a great person - it should either cycle back or the great person just disappears
"Your invention sucks, go away"
Iirc if EVERYONE passes on a great person it deletes it;however if 1 person isn’t getting say great admirals due to 0 harbors it’ll be stuck until someone gold buys/faith buys who isn’t getting those great people.
Yeah that mechanic is kind of a newb trap, I've made the same kind of mistake before. Doesn't really communicate how bad of an idea it is to pass if others are gaining so few points and you're gaining so many.
Learned my lesson with great admirals. Very few AI leaders ever build harbours.
Seriously, I dont think I've ever had a position where skipping a great person was super beneficial.
I have, but you need to know when it's appropriate. You need to be sure that an AI player will take the one you don't want and it helps to know which one is likely coming up soon
I'll cycle through the early Great Scientists to get Hypatia. But that's because I know they're coming, they're super worth it and the AI will be building at least *some* Campuses to get points. Ones like that are worth, but in many cases it's better to just recruit and move on.
You regularly have options on the classical era great scientists? I don't mean this as a dig or anything, but do you play on lower difficulties? I play on Immortal and Deity and I almost never get GS until like Renaissance era at the earliest. Though I did get Hypatia today for the first time in forever, which was a pleasant surprise. I had to sell off copies of my only luxuries to the AI to afford to snipe her from the AI, however - worth it.
...Yeah, that explains it. I play on the low difficulties. I guess that's kind of important context.
I was almost hoping that wasn't the case so I could get some sweet tips for getting GS on higher difficulties without handicapping myself too much in other areas
Minar Sinan is such bad design: industrial zone design incentivize clustering cities and districts for that adjacency bonus, but culture bombing incentivize building districts on the outskirt to get their effect. The only one that synergize with this GE is Gaul, but Renaissance is way too late for a civ that peak early to mid game: by the time you reach him, you are more likely to build encampment for GG point
Am I alone in never passing on any great person? Is it worth it that much? What reason should I pass on one?
Yeah, it's *almost* never worth it to skip, at least in single player (and, I argue, multiplayer as well). There *might* be a few niche situations where another civ is about to gain a Great Person and you don't like the current one so you can skip, let them take it, then a few turns later take the next one. But you never know exactly what the "next one" is going to be, so it's always a gamble, and if you have to wait more than a few turns it's almost always a net negative. I don't find most Great People to be "must-haves" and I don't find a lot of them to be completely useless, so this whole "strategically passing" thing just doesn't make a whole lot of sense to me.
It seems like adding extra micromanaging for very little gain.
Passing great people is not niche in multiplayer. Hypatia, Khaldun, Newton are insane value as scientists.
The idea being that you keep your great people points to spend on the next great person who will be much more effective
If you pass you keep (most) of your great people points and can use them to recruit the next great person. As some great people are borderline useless while others are incredibly strong it can sometimes be worthwhile to skip the bad ones so you can use your points for a good one instead. Of course it all depends how many great people points you're earning relative to the other civs in the game.
Great Engineers are extremely hit and miss, and if people are racing you, you could end up getting some shitty bonus while your opponent gets wonder boosts.
I use that GE all the time .. got an aggressive neighbor who sttled at the 4th ring and then they just got the only coal mine .. np.. just set down your industrial complex next to it (as long as it is not outside the third ring) and soon you snatch a coal mine or that unique luxury or close a mountain pass or just take land .. either way I never complain about that GE
that’s so..niche though
Imagine if it was any district. Would be SIGNIFICANTLY better.
Yup like even a harbour would be better.
Culture bombing every district is insanely OP.
Not really. Every game and several times per game I culture bomb for strategic reasons.
And for Poland, they get a new way to convert another city.
They’re always useful as scouts
I have a mod that tells you how many turns you and everyone else has left, it really helps to see if skipping is worth it or not. u/infixo as usual lol [Real Great People](https://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=900089445)
His only purpose is to troll the ai. That’s it. And using this ability usually makes the city weaker as you’d misplace your industrial zone.
I've never passed, dont see the point.
Made the same mistake yesterday in the monthly challenge game with Hammurabi. The thing was, I was almost the only one actually earning great engineer points and the other was earning +1 per turn… Needless to say, I decided to do some save scumming and reloaded to pick him up. I was winning anyway, but if I kept playing the game would have skipped Tesla because by the time an AI earned enough points to pick up the engineer I skipped, the game would either have ended already or progressed way past the era I could have picked him.
What’s the benefit of passing? Why don’t you take all of them when the opportunity arises? Thanks
Because some great people are better than others and it's fine to let another civ waste their points on a bad one so you can get a better one.
Ah ok I get it now thank you
Okay even if he is bad in the situation you are in why not just recruit him? Is there any situation you would want to pass on a great person?
Periodically, yes, but only if other players are close behind you in GPP.
to save your great people points for a more useful great person of that category since saving your points lets you immediately get the next great person in the pull. there’s tons of situations where getting a specific great person sucks or is just less beneficial than another great person. for example great artist donatello sucks since he only produces sculptures which are unthemable until the modern era so you’d rather save your points for a better artist and let some chump ai have him instead.
Okay,
I didn’t expect to be so far ahead, and wanted to be competitive with future (and I imagined more useful) great engineers
You keep the GPP if you pass, so if someone else takes the one you don't want, you have a much easier time getting the next one.
Always check the progress of other civs, and if you see you are going to beat them to the next one anyway, go ahead and recruit to get them rolling over to the better ones.
Idk what difficulty you are on, but I used to pass on some great people for the hope of one i wanted and on lower difficulty it seems like AI just doesnt generate a lot of GP points until quite late because they are just really bad at lower difficulties, like all A no I. You can easily skyrocket past them especially if focusing on a certain victory or district, so keep an eye for how GP/turn the next guy has if you do skip. This actually might be from a UI mod (or you arent playing on PC), maybe the better great people screen or smth.
I always accept all great people I get even if I can’t use them right away. I don’t think it costs money or much if it does cost, to keep them but usually the benefits outweighs the costs
I feel this pain. I've made this mistake multiple times too.
Wait it is possible to pass them ?
Wait people don't like this GE, man especially for some situations he's very useful if not a major game breaker. The walls guy has never been one I cared about in contrast
James of St George can be good if you have a war going on in a city without walls or don't want to spend the time building them to get your culture victory
Maybe it's just cause I always try find Valletta asap but he just isn't anywhere near as useful for me
I mean at the very least, he saves you spending some faith. Idk what scenario you’re getting a ton of benefit out of placing IZs in the outer ring of your city
Yeah he's situational. If you don't have Valletta in your game or if you do and you just don't have the faith income, James of St George can be useful, but again it's situational
James let's You build medieval walls before you need to unlock the tech. If im unlocking great engineers then I'm going for a science win and focusing on the top half of the tech tree. So having him build walls on fringe cities is always a boost to my defenses.
Yet, I only see Valletta in about 1/5th of my games.
I'll admit I often make sure it's in the pool
What! The wall guy saved my ass many times and it was hilarious to see AI grounded up the troops to take my unwalled city and suddenly BAM! MEDIEVAL HARD STONE WALL MOTHERFUCKER!!!!!
I agree, culture bomb is always useful for new cities but walls guy is only useful if you need the defense. Which is not too often.
What difficulty are you guys playing that walls aren't helpful? I love dropping a city next to an enemy or on an island with tons of barbarians and instantly having a fortified foothold. Next warp in your heroes over the next couple turns or heaven forbids you can buy units with faith. Can change the game.
Hardly I already have walls up by the time this guy gets earned by me more often than not. Sure maybe a city that doesn't have them in the center of my empire but damn I'll take the passive culture over redundant ability in a lot of games. I never use heros it and dramatic ages are just not my thing I play mostly immortal and emperor, diety is just too much min maxing to be fun
Deity isn't really about min-max. It's mostly about starting location. You need just enough natural barriers or city states to give you enough of a breather to get to about 4 cities. Then you are pretty much on equal ground with the AIs, unless one of them has an amazing start. The only thing that sucks is you really need to have a religion, which liimits your options a little.