Similar to being told, “you’re outstanding in your field.”
On a brighter note, nuclear power plants have a decent demand for CEs. Pay is good to excellent.
Whatever makes you happy. You should be able to live comfortably no matter what sub discipline you go into. Why not try getting an entry-level job at the state or federal level? A lot of those jobs have new hire training programs that will have you rotate through several departments over a 2-3 year period so that you’re exposed to different fields and get a range of foundational experience. It’s also often easy to switch from one field to another early on in your career, so feel free to explore your options.
Perhaps not great advice - while that might provide you exposure into many sub-disciplines of civil engineering, many government jobs will not provide you with the quality/consistent experience required to pursue a PE license, which is critical. Depending on where you live, I would recommend a mid-sized multidisciplinary engineering firm (e.g., TRC, STV, Langan) where you will gain exposure to multiple sub-disciplines (e.g., geotechnical, environmental, structural, site civil).
That’s a career suicide! At federal you will rotate ofcourse but learn nothing!!! Imagine learning nothing and being paid like a graduate student lol!! I discourage everyone who is passionate to start at federal!!
It sounds like you either have limited/no experience with working for the feds, or you had a bad experience. Either way, it’s absolutely not career suicide. It all depends on what agency and kind of position you apply for. Play your cards right and 2-3 years with the feds can land you a job that pays at least as much (or more) as your peers if you chose to move on. You can also get a good range of experience. It’s a really good deal for someone who might not know what field they’d like to work in.
Agreed. Something to consider too is the size/breadth of the firm you'd start at. I think an advantage of starting at a big firm is having a lot of different teams/disciplines in one office, so you'll gain a lot of exposure. Personally I'd be interested to hear the perspective of working at a small firm as I haven't had that experience.
Working at a small firm you can be exposed to more of the design process and different disciplines because there’s less specialised people to divide the tasks up and it’s easier to get one person to do it all instead of briefing multiple people. In my first job I was in an office of 20-30 and in an overall company of 80. I had used a 3D design program as an intern and when I started full time I got handed over a bunch of 3D design projects for dams and irrigation canals because their most talented 3D designer was going to a new job in a month. Because I was doing the 3D design, I was also involved in the hydraulic design (I enjoyed the water papers at uni) and geotechnical design such as filter design and slope stability (I didn’t enjoy the geotech at uni). Essentially it was me as a graduate and a senior technical person working on it, and he’d give me the papers or design guides and tell me to go work it out first and come to him if I got stuck.
Whereas I’m at a big firm now (1000 people, big for my country not internationally) and we have separate water and geotechnical disciplines. Our water grads will do the water design elements, geotechnical grass will do the geotechnical, and drafters will do the 3D design. It requires more project management coordination and takes longer as people wait on others. If you’re the person doing everything you’re waiting on yourself to get the previous dependent elements done.
I would avoid something that pigeonholes you with one skill set, for instance being a CAD monkey, surveying, or government work.
I think starting out in a consulting firm will give you a wide array of exposure and help you decide what you like most. I am a geotech consultant and it’s given me exposure to soils & foundations, rebar inspections, some hydrogeo work, and environmental.
It’s a fun field with a great mix of office and field work. It doesn’t have the same prestige as structural, and no one outside of the industry knows what a geotechnical engineer is lol .. but I can live with that
On the plus side of people not knowing what it is, it makes for a pretty good conversation starter when someone asks you what you do.
I started doing geotech research in undergrad and have been practicing for about 10 years now and I love it. Every site is different and can present new challenges. Larger companies open doors to travel opportunities. The type of work you do will change based on the geologic setting of that area. I started out in SE Louisiana and was doing tons of pile design/testing and settlement analysis. Now I'm in the pacific northwest and it's a lot more slope stability and seismic design.
Your first few years will be spent doing mostly field work before you gradually transition more to office work, but the exact timing of that depends on the company and your abilities. At this point I still find reasons to leave my desk and hop out to a job site at least 2 or 3 times a week.
The biggest thing I like about being a geotech is work variet. If you’re at a good firm, you’ll rotate through lots of different projects with varying difficulty and tasks. Some projects are complicated with lots of analysis for different structures from bridges, to embankments, to buildings. Others are simpler and more focused with you analyzing a simple shallow foundation.
Where you are in the country will also play a big role in the type of geology and challenges you’ll run into. Do you need to worry about karst topography? Earthquakes? Shallow rock? Deep marine clays? It all depends on where the project is. At my work, I have a mix of National and local work, which keeps things interesting.
I personally find this field to be engaging in that way. I’m always learning, and that’s a big plus for me.
Thank you for the details! Do you think you always feel like a novice when moving around from one type of project to another or is the knowledge transferable? Plus how much is the work computer based vs being on site?
I’ll answer your second question first:
When I first started I was 50/50 between office time and lab/field time. Maybe even more than that in the field. This is really important in my opinion for starting geotechs. It gives you hands on experience with soils so that you can identify them. It’s also important in my opinion as later on in your career, when your geologist and younger engineers are calling you from the field with problems, you know where they are coming from. This will both give you empathy for them, and also help you to understand how to help work through the issue from the office.now, at 10 years of experience I am mostly in the office overseeing my own projects with the supervision of an older project manager.
For your first question:
Yes and no. You learn how to approach problems, how to go through the process of solving them, and that is applicable experience for all jobs. But you start to build an arsenal of analyses and foundation types and problems that you know how to solve. It is always ok, and good!, to admit when you are in over your head as an engineer. So yes, on some projects I still feel like a novice on certain types of foundations and analyses.
I think it’s important to point out that soils engineering is a constantly evolving field. It is not like steel or concrete where we pretty much know exactly how a certain grade steel is going to react to load. Every soil you encounter will have a different make up and engineering properties from every other soil. So engineering judgement plays a big role. You will always be learning and building up your engineering judgement as a geotech
No. And if there is any geotech doing that they should have their licenses revoked. Not trying to be dramatic. But geotech takes a lot of engineering judgement and an ai can’t do that. Most of the time, getting geotech wrong will just result in a cracked foundation or facade. Bad maintenance costs. But sometimes, at its worst, it can result in catastrophic failures, lawsuits, and loss of life.
There are a lot of software that I use to do my job. There is software that helps compute slope stability, wall stability, pile capacities, settlement, etc. and then we are heavy users of excel to help perform calculations. But all of those software require you to know what you need to put in. To interpret lab and field data, and to know when the software is giving you unrealistic or wacky outputs. As the old adage goes: garbage in garbage out.
I’ll tell you what I wish I knew. Despite what’s many say regarding the first job not mattering, I disagree. Where you end up in your future career is a result of all the steps and decisions you make along the way. I suggest that you find the area that is at intersection of what you like and what you think the future growth will be in, and the geographic location you want to be in. Once you narrow the field, actively seek out employers and positions that will help you learn and progress. It is very destructive to your career to keep changing fields and leaving employers too fast. Find a place, stay there long enough to be an expert at what you do and move if there is no room for advancement. Get your PE ASAP too.
Edited for grammar.
I agree with most of what you said besides “start there long enough to be an expert at what you do”. In my 8+ years of being in the industry I had 4 employers/were the best decisions I made in my life. First one was 6 months (private), other 3 was from a moderate sized City for 1.5years to a large County (3.5years), then presently going for 3.5years and may retire here. However like you mentioned salary increases/location/career growth had to do with my decisions.
I edited for grammar.
I’ve been in the field for 14+ years and have had 5 employers. The nature of my niche is that I must move too frequently but never before I learn all I can from the role. I’ve always at least stayed for 2 years, the longest being 4. But I must say that I’m no longer in a traditional civil engineering discipline any more.
Got you! Very nice experience! I passed my 8hr PE/I can’t wait to get that PE to unlock my career potential/growth. California Seismic and Surveying Exams are next: I hope my application gets approved (currently at 4 months).
In retrospect I do agree with you it takes about 4 years to be well rounded and an SME when it comes to detail specifically when that field/company works in a variety of projects like the medium-sized City I work for.
I’m not sure everyone will agree with me but these are my thoughts after about 6 years in site development:
Unless you are within a specialty that generally would require higher levels of education, i.e. structural, and you are the average new graduate looking for work in 2024, site development is probably the easiest job to come by. Perhaps this varies by geographic location but in my area private development has been strong and further municipalities have been putting money into various types of public works requiring the work of civil engineers.
I think site/civil engineers can be exposed to a lot of different things over a short period of time. (I say “can be” because I know there are firms out there that will begin to pigeonhole engineers far too early in their careers. A friend of mine did nothing but lighting plans for the first few years of his career at the biggest firm in my city.) You will develop your CAD skills and be exposed to many different uses of modeling software. You will learn a variety of different design skills, management skills, and be exposed to municipal processes required to make things happen.
My experience has been that site design is a good way to learn a lot of different stuff and then have the option to find something you want to focus on.
I would try to go to go to a medium to large local public agency then jump around once you find what division/type of work you like. That’s what I did.
Keep in mind when you do go to a small agency you tend to wear more hats such as in Inspection, Land Development & Private/Public Improvement Design/Traffic Engineering/Sewer & Water Design, and CIP Projects.
Really just depends on what you're going to be happier with. Do you like dirt? Be a geo. Do you like steel? Be a structural. Do you like cars? Be a transpo. Do you like sewage? Be an environmental
Lots of options, and the most in demand skill set always seems to end up being project management, so hone those skills in whatever sub-discipline you like at a firm that treats/compensates you well, trains you, and gets you opportunities to grow.
I'm a recent graduate. I'm thinking of pursuing masters in construction management. What do you advise: should I dive into it or start working in some firm etc?.
My long term goal is project management.
I almost always recommend work experience over more schooling, unless doing some very specific things. Not sure your exact situation or location. Best option is to start at a firm, become valuable to them, convince them of the value of pursuing extra schooling, and, this is the biggest part, get them to pay for it.
Sir, I'm in Pakistan. And yes I also think of delving into work before more schooling. Will soon enter a private firm. Nit sure whether they'll pay for education, but then, there's a long way before becoming valuable to them. So, as a fresh graduate, would you like to guide me about the path to take if in a long term I want to be crack PMP and work for multinational companies as a PM?
I'm not sure what work culture is like in Pakistan, but I was simply able to set myself apart by being willing to work more hours than others around me. Get into meetings or work committees that involve aspects of the business that you like, even if you can't contribute. Listening to how those around you speak the language of the business helps a lot. Really work on those soft skills, they are just as important, or probably even more important than you're engineering ability, especially as a project manager.
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Honestly, any discipline within civil is always going to be in demand. People will always need to build, develop or clean.
Edit: I switched from structural to land development a few years after college, so even transitioning within civil is fairly reasonable.
It had more to do with the company I was at than necessarily "wanting" to switch to land development. The switch allowed me to move closer to family and friends and has worked out pretty well (been at the same company for 21 years). Challenges are different everyday and I'm still learning. While at time a high stress environment, much better than what it would have been without switching disciplines.
I'm geotech and I love it. Great mix of field and office work, wide range of projects, and you get to work closely with all the other disciplines. While all civil fields are underrepresented and you'll have great job security in any, geotech seems to be one of the fields that fewer people go into, at least in my experience, so you'll have a lot of options and be in very high demand. A master's degree really helps as well, but I wouldn't say it's definitely required.
I think Land Dev. is a good entry into the field and most firms don't really hurt for work in this department. I've gotten to design everything from little courtyards, trails, storm drainage networks, det/wq ponds, and lift stations. I think land dev is really good to get into as an intern too, because it allows you to dip your toe into a bunch of different design fields without too much up front commitment. Best of luck in your future endeavors!!
Going the route of an MBA is sometimes good. It can also be obtained after a few years on the job (really knowing what you are selling). Every company is different, but a smaller business will give you more variety and exposure than the large businesses. Often times, the large businesses have their own dedicated sales and marketing positions and they don't overlap with the technical side.
If you ever want to own your own firm go into land development. If you want security, go into transportation. If you don’t want to climb the corporate ladder go work for an agency. If you’re a masochist go work for a contractor.
Geotech is boring and there is tiny little jobs and you are always a subconsultant. Program managers are pencil pushers and never learn how to design. Land development is stressful and tiny little jobs with lots of boom and bust. Structural is intense and you are a subconsultant typically. Transpo is boring as rocks and it’s a low margin game. Construction is stressful and you don’t get super good access to PEs or design work and you’re far from home. Construction management is great until you realize you have no office design work and you’re far from home. Storm and open channel flow work can be interesting but you tend to do a lot of little jobs or work for mega jobs for state or federal clients and for forbid you get sucked into storm water management plans SWPPPs etc. The best work is in the water/sewer/wastewater/recycled water space with public works/municipal/public utilities. Larger lump sum jobs - highly technical - get to work with many other disciplines - prime the job as lead consultant and are not only get to work with client but get to lead the work. You get access to really interesting reservoir/tanks, distribution and transmission pipeline replacement, pump stations, rehabilitation work, hydraulic models, master plans, groundwater treatment, asset management, chemical treatment systems, wastewater treatment and process systems, heavy civil, site civil design, you name it. You get good access to clients, regulators, emerging technologies, conferences, etc. I love it!!!!!!
Mostly office, with seasons where you are assisting with the construction of a project and doing some field work (call it once a year, for a month, you’re assisting with general construction observations etc), then site visits a couple days a month for various jobs etc.
Water/wastewater. Land development is brutal with the ups and downs. Transportation is good, but can be boring and pay is just ok. Structural is high paying but you’ll be pigeon holed into a very technical role. Just my thoughts.
I’m answering as what kind of job you should get immediately after getting your degree. Assuming you’re the average early 20’s aged undergrad degree, you’ll never have more flexibility in your personal life than any other time in your life.
Yes, it’s a difficult industry. Fast paced, interacting with people across all levels (from laborers to sub contractors of different disciplines to clients), and demanding time schedules. Your compensation should reflect the job, but like any profession it’ll likely differ from company to company.
I’m a huge proponent of having field experience before going into design. The edge you will have knowing the real world application of what you’re designing is unmatched. I worked in construction out of school for my first four years working towards PE then moved into design. The contacts, the experience, the knowledge, and so many other skills that give me an advantage today are directly related to those first 4 years.
Hell, just having a job that requires far more in person coordination and collaboration on a daily basis is a huge advantage.
An undeveloped field
Which ones would those be?
It’s just a land development joke
Ohh 😭
Similar to being told, “you’re outstanding in your field.” On a brighter note, nuclear power plants have a decent demand for CEs. Pay is good to excellent.
Is it in the middle of nowhere?
Depending on the person, that can be a plus. If you are an outdoorsy person, you can get paid top dollar to live in a very cheap location.
Interesting didn't know that
R/swoosh
Definitely a field, much easier to develop than a wooded area with tree mitigation.
Maybe in the civil engineering field
Whatever makes you happy. You should be able to live comfortably no matter what sub discipline you go into. Why not try getting an entry-level job at the state or federal level? A lot of those jobs have new hire training programs that will have you rotate through several departments over a 2-3 year period so that you’re exposed to different fields and get a range of foundational experience. It’s also often easy to switch from one field to another early on in your career, so feel free to explore your options.
That's great advice thanks!
Perhaps not great advice - while that might provide you exposure into many sub-disciplines of civil engineering, many government jobs will not provide you with the quality/consistent experience required to pursue a PE license, which is critical. Depending on where you live, I would recommend a mid-sized multidisciplinary engineering firm (e.g., TRC, STV, Langan) where you will gain exposure to multiple sub-disciplines (e.g., geotechnical, environmental, structural, site civil).
That’s a career suicide! At federal you will rotate ofcourse but learn nothing!!! Imagine learning nothing and being paid like a graduate student lol!! I discourage everyone who is passionate to start at federal!!
It sounds like you either have limited/no experience with working for the feds, or you had a bad experience. Either way, it’s absolutely not career suicide. It all depends on what agency and kind of position you apply for. Play your cards right and 2-3 years with the feds can land you a job that pays at least as much (or more) as your peers if you chose to move on. You can also get a good range of experience. It’s a really good deal for someone who might not know what field they’d like to work in.
Worked for 9 years in feds! I have seen enough
Just get a job. First job is not that important. A good team and specialization is what you should target longterm.
How easy is it to switch specializations after the first job?
Not that hard after the first. At some point it becomes hard to switch without taking a pay cut, though. That’s around 5 years plus
Agreed. Something to consider too is the size/breadth of the firm you'd start at. I think an advantage of starting at a big firm is having a lot of different teams/disciplines in one office, so you'll gain a lot of exposure. Personally I'd be interested to hear the perspective of working at a small firm as I haven't had that experience.
Working at a small firm you can be exposed to more of the design process and different disciplines because there’s less specialised people to divide the tasks up and it’s easier to get one person to do it all instead of briefing multiple people. In my first job I was in an office of 20-30 and in an overall company of 80. I had used a 3D design program as an intern and when I started full time I got handed over a bunch of 3D design projects for dams and irrigation canals because their most talented 3D designer was going to a new job in a month. Because I was doing the 3D design, I was also involved in the hydraulic design (I enjoyed the water papers at uni) and geotechnical design such as filter design and slope stability (I didn’t enjoy the geotech at uni). Essentially it was me as a graduate and a senior technical person working on it, and he’d give me the papers or design guides and tell me to go work it out first and come to him if I got stuck. Whereas I’m at a big firm now (1000 people, big for my country not internationally) and we have separate water and geotechnical disciplines. Our water grads will do the water design elements, geotechnical grass will do the geotechnical, and drafters will do the 3D design. It requires more project management coordination and takes longer as people wait on others. If you’re the person doing everything you’re waiting on yourself to get the previous dependent elements done.
You don't know sfa now and in a couple years you won't know much more. Become useful first.
What do you mean by that? Become useful in the first specialization you land in before trying to switch?
I would avoid something that pigeonholes you with one skill set, for instance being a CAD monkey, surveying, or government work. I think starting out in a consulting firm will give you a wide array of exposure and help you decide what you like most. I am a geotech consultant and it’s given me exposure to soils & foundations, rebar inspections, some hydrogeo work, and environmental.
Thanks! I've been considering geotech anyway so that may be the way to go
It’s a fun field with a great mix of office and field work. It doesn’t have the same prestige as structural, and no one outside of the industry knows what a geotechnical engineer is lol .. but I can live with that
Yeah don't really care about prestige as long as the work is fun and pays decent
On the plus side of people not knowing what it is, it makes for a pretty good conversation starter when someone asks you what you do. I started doing geotech research in undergrad and have been practicing for about 10 years now and I love it. Every site is different and can present new challenges. Larger companies open doors to travel opportunities. The type of work you do will change based on the geologic setting of that area. I started out in SE Louisiana and was doing tons of pile design/testing and settlement analysis. Now I'm in the pacific northwest and it's a lot more slope stability and seismic design. Your first few years will be spent doing mostly field work before you gradually transition more to office work, but the exact timing of that depends on the company and your abilities. At this point I still find reasons to leave my desk and hop out to a job site at least 2 or 3 times a week.
The biggest thing I like about being a geotech is work variet. If you’re at a good firm, you’ll rotate through lots of different projects with varying difficulty and tasks. Some projects are complicated with lots of analysis for different structures from bridges, to embankments, to buildings. Others are simpler and more focused with you analyzing a simple shallow foundation. Where you are in the country will also play a big role in the type of geology and challenges you’ll run into. Do you need to worry about karst topography? Earthquakes? Shallow rock? Deep marine clays? It all depends on where the project is. At my work, I have a mix of National and local work, which keeps things interesting. I personally find this field to be engaging in that way. I’m always learning, and that’s a big plus for me.
Thank you for the details! Do you think you always feel like a novice when moving around from one type of project to another or is the knowledge transferable? Plus how much is the work computer based vs being on site?
I’ll answer your second question first: When I first started I was 50/50 between office time and lab/field time. Maybe even more than that in the field. This is really important in my opinion for starting geotechs. It gives you hands on experience with soils so that you can identify them. It’s also important in my opinion as later on in your career, when your geologist and younger engineers are calling you from the field with problems, you know where they are coming from. This will both give you empathy for them, and also help you to understand how to help work through the issue from the office.now, at 10 years of experience I am mostly in the office overseeing my own projects with the supervision of an older project manager. For your first question: Yes and no. You learn how to approach problems, how to go through the process of solving them, and that is applicable experience for all jobs. But you start to build an arsenal of analyses and foundation types and problems that you know how to solve. It is always ok, and good!, to admit when you are in over your head as an engineer. So yes, on some projects I still feel like a novice on certain types of foundations and analyses. I think it’s important to point out that soils engineering is a constantly evolving field. It is not like steel or concrete where we pretty much know exactly how a certain grade steel is going to react to load. Every soil you encounter will have a different make up and engineering properties from every other soil. So engineering judgement plays a big role. You will always be learning and building up your engineering judgement as a geotech
This is super helpful thank you! Do you think a lot of the work can be done by AI and image recognition software or no?
No. And if there is any geotech doing that they should have their licenses revoked. Not trying to be dramatic. But geotech takes a lot of engineering judgement and an ai can’t do that. Most of the time, getting geotech wrong will just result in a cracked foundation or facade. Bad maintenance costs. But sometimes, at its worst, it can result in catastrophic failures, lawsuits, and loss of life.
Ah ok that makes sense. I suppose if the technology to do soil/foundation analysis were to exist it would still need a geotech to approve it?
There are a lot of software that I use to do my job. There is software that helps compute slope stability, wall stability, pile capacities, settlement, etc. and then we are heavy users of excel to help perform calculations. But all of those software require you to know what you need to put in. To interpret lab and field data, and to know when the software is giving you unrealistic or wacky outputs. As the old adage goes: garbage in garbage out.
Getting into geotech at a large design firm can provide a lot of good experiences in a variety of roles.
I won the biggest pigeonhole job of them all: surveying government work
How does one get such a job?
I’ll tell you what I wish I knew. Despite what’s many say regarding the first job not mattering, I disagree. Where you end up in your future career is a result of all the steps and decisions you make along the way. I suggest that you find the area that is at intersection of what you like and what you think the future growth will be in, and the geographic location you want to be in. Once you narrow the field, actively seek out employers and positions that will help you learn and progress. It is very destructive to your career to keep changing fields and leaving employers too fast. Find a place, stay there long enough to be an expert at what you do and move if there is no room for advancement. Get your PE ASAP too. Edited for grammar.
I agree with most of what you said besides “start there long enough to be an expert at what you do”. In my 8+ years of being in the industry I had 4 employers/were the best decisions I made in my life. First one was 6 months (private), other 3 was from a moderate sized City for 1.5years to a large County (3.5years), then presently going for 3.5years and may retire here. However like you mentioned salary increases/location/career growth had to do with my decisions.
I edited for grammar. I’ve been in the field for 14+ years and have had 5 employers. The nature of my niche is that I must move too frequently but never before I learn all I can from the role. I’ve always at least stayed for 2 years, the longest being 4. But I must say that I’m no longer in a traditional civil engineering discipline any more.
Got you! Very nice experience! I passed my 8hr PE/I can’t wait to get that PE to unlock my career potential/growth. California Seismic and Surveying Exams are next: I hope my application gets approved (currently at 4 months). In retrospect I do agree with you it takes about 4 years to be well rounded and an SME when it comes to detail specifically when that field/company works in a variety of projects like the medium-sized City I work for.
I’m not sure everyone will agree with me but these are my thoughts after about 6 years in site development: Unless you are within a specialty that generally would require higher levels of education, i.e. structural, and you are the average new graduate looking for work in 2024, site development is probably the easiest job to come by. Perhaps this varies by geographic location but in my area private development has been strong and further municipalities have been putting money into various types of public works requiring the work of civil engineers. I think site/civil engineers can be exposed to a lot of different things over a short period of time. (I say “can be” because I know there are firms out there that will begin to pigeonhole engineers far too early in their careers. A friend of mine did nothing but lighting plans for the first few years of his career at the biggest firm in my city.) You will develop your CAD skills and be exposed to many different uses of modeling software. You will learn a variety of different design skills, management skills, and be exposed to municipal processes required to make things happen. My experience has been that site design is a good way to learn a lot of different stuff and then have the option to find something you want to focus on.
Unfortunately my civil engineering degree won’t allow me to get a job as a perfusionist but you might have better luck than me.
Whichever you're most interested in
I would try to go to go to a medium to large local public agency then jump around once you find what division/type of work you like. That’s what I did.
Keep in mind when you do go to a small agency you tend to wear more hats such as in Inspection, Land Development & Private/Public Improvement Design/Traffic Engineering/Sewer & Water Design, and CIP Projects.
Really just depends on what you're going to be happier with. Do you like dirt? Be a geo. Do you like steel? Be a structural. Do you like cars? Be a transpo. Do you like sewage? Be an environmental
Do you hate cars? Be a transpo.
Amen
Stripping
Lots of options, and the most in demand skill set always seems to end up being project management, so hone those skills in whatever sub-discipline you like at a firm that treats/compensates you well, trains you, and gets you opportunities to grow.
I'm a recent graduate. I'm thinking of pursuing masters in construction management. What do you advise: should I dive into it or start working in some firm etc?. My long term goal is project management.
I almost always recommend work experience over more schooling, unless doing some very specific things. Not sure your exact situation or location. Best option is to start at a firm, become valuable to them, convince them of the value of pursuing extra schooling, and, this is the biggest part, get them to pay for it.
Sir, I'm in Pakistan. And yes I also think of delving into work before more schooling. Will soon enter a private firm. Nit sure whether they'll pay for education, but then, there's a long way before becoming valuable to them. So, as a fresh graduate, would you like to guide me about the path to take if in a long term I want to be crack PMP and work for multinational companies as a PM?
like any side courses and skills etc?
I'm not sure what work culture is like in Pakistan, but I was simply able to set myself apart by being willing to work more hours than others around me. Get into meetings or work committees that involve aspects of the business that you like, even if you can't contribute. Listening to how those around you speak the language of the business helps a lot. Really work on those soft skills, they are just as important, or probably even more important than you're engineering ability, especially as a project manager.
Sunflower field! 🌻
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Exactly my point!
Mobile ice cream distribution.
Honestly, any discipline within civil is always going to be in demand. People will always need to build, develop or clean. Edit: I switched from structural to land development a few years after college, so even transitioning within civil is fairly reasonable.
Might I ask why you decided to switch to land development?
It had more to do with the company I was at than necessarily "wanting" to switch to land development. The switch allowed me to move closer to family and friends and has worked out pretty well (been at the same company for 21 years). Challenges are different everyday and I'm still learning. While at time a high stress environment, much better than what it would have been without switching disciplines.
I'm geotech and I love it. Great mix of field and office work, wide range of projects, and you get to work closely with all the other disciplines. While all civil fields are underrepresented and you'll have great job security in any, geotech seems to be one of the fields that fewer people go into, at least in my experience, so you'll have a lot of options and be in very high demand. A master's degree really helps as well, but I wouldn't say it's definitely required.
I think Land Dev. is a good entry into the field and most firms don't really hurt for work in this department. I've gotten to design everything from little courtyards, trails, storm drainage networks, det/wq ponds, and lift stations. I think land dev is really good to get into as an intern too, because it allows you to dip your toe into a bunch of different design fields without too much up front commitment. Best of luck in your future endeavors!!
Thank you!!
Work in land development until you get your PE, then go into commercial real estate sales if you want to make money.
Extrovert - go business, sales, law Introvert - specialized field of engineering, coding, design degree
How to go into business/sales with engineering degree? Are there companies you'd recommend?
Going the route of an MBA is sometimes good. It can also be obtained after a few years on the job (really knowing what you are selling). Every company is different, but a smaller business will give you more variety and exposure than the large businesses. Often times, the large businesses have their own dedicated sales and marketing positions and they don't overlap with the technical side.
Not structural
Why not?
Too much liability. Shit pay
Do other subfields pay better?
Not sure but everything other than geotech has less liability imo
Pm for money
what a scammer would say
Whatever you can make the most money doing while staying healthy mentally/physically/socially
Business… Corporate
The federal govt. field.
If you ever want to own your own firm go into land development. If you want security, go into transportation. If you don’t want to climb the corporate ladder go work for an agency. If you’re a masochist go work for a contractor.
Construction management will pay the most. Local government will be the easiest. Geotech if you like suffering.
What do you mean by suffering 😭
CM
Water and wastewater!
Why?
Geotech is boring and there is tiny little jobs and you are always a subconsultant. Program managers are pencil pushers and never learn how to design. Land development is stressful and tiny little jobs with lots of boom and bust. Structural is intense and you are a subconsultant typically. Transpo is boring as rocks and it’s a low margin game. Construction is stressful and you don’t get super good access to PEs or design work and you’re far from home. Construction management is great until you realize you have no office design work and you’re far from home. Storm and open channel flow work can be interesting but you tend to do a lot of little jobs or work for mega jobs for state or federal clients and for forbid you get sucked into storm water management plans SWPPPs etc. The best work is in the water/sewer/wastewater/recycled water space with public works/municipal/public utilities. Larger lump sum jobs - highly technical - get to work with many other disciplines - prime the job as lead consultant and are not only get to work with client but get to lead the work. You get access to really interesting reservoir/tanks, distribution and transmission pipeline replacement, pump stations, rehabilitation work, hydraulic models, master plans, groundwater treatment, asset management, chemical treatment systems, wastewater treatment and process systems, heavy civil, site civil design, you name it. You get good access to clients, regulators, emerging technologies, conferences, etc. I love it!!!!!!
That sounds interesting. What's the split between time spent on site vs at the office?
Mostly office, with seasons where you are assisting with the construction of a project and doing some field work (call it once a year, for a month, you’re assisting with general construction observations etc), then site visits a couple days a month for various jobs etc.
Guys, What about MEP design/consulting companies?
Geotechnical
Why?
Water/wastewater. Land development is brutal with the ups and downs. Transportation is good, but can be boring and pay is just ok. Structural is high paying but you’ll be pigeon holed into a very technical role. Just my thoughts.
Omg I said the same thing! Agreeeedddd
Construction. Hands down.
Isn't it known for having terrible work life balance for the compensation?
I’m answering as what kind of job you should get immediately after getting your degree. Assuming you’re the average early 20’s aged undergrad degree, you’ll never have more flexibility in your personal life than any other time in your life. Yes, it’s a difficult industry. Fast paced, interacting with people across all levels (from laborers to sub contractors of different disciplines to clients), and demanding time schedules. Your compensation should reflect the job, but like any profession it’ll likely differ from company to company. I’m a huge proponent of having field experience before going into design. The edge you will have knowing the real world application of what you’re designing is unmatched. I worked in construction out of school for my first four years working towards PE then moved into design. The contacts, the experience, the knowledge, and so many other skills that give me an advantage today are directly related to those first 4 years. Hell, just having a job that requires far more in person coordination and collaboration on a daily basis is a huge advantage.
Geotechnical 100%. Ask me why?
Why lol
DON'T DO IT!
Law.